An Incoherent Discussion About Main Characters | Glass of Water

[@LilianOrchard]

Note: Simon and Grace were in the penultimate season of Infinity Train, not the final, I misspoke Also to the people saying "Blame China" for Finn being sidelined: Fuck off. American white men were shrieking and ripping their hair out over Finn. Stop pretending like America doesn't have a racism problem.

[@RickyCow]

I really hate the blame china argument because it's not like Disney doesn't print money on basically everything they do. If they really wanted to they could tell china to piss off. But they won't.

[@BackslideDan]

Stop being anti-white.

[@theduncandonut7576]

Hey, I have to say, I thought that Marcy got the most attention from the Amphibia fanbase

[@solsystem1342]

​@@theduncandonut7576 I'll say is certainly there's a reason marcy got stabbed and not sasha (because marcy was pretty much ubiquitously loved wheas sasha was pretty all over the place from love her, to hate her, all the way to love to hate her)

[@Polarpeach1]

Luz is one of the most relatable characters I have ever seen. As a 14 year old I was a cringy fandom kid who didn't have alot of friends. The way she acts, her faults as a people please who tries to have it all. The horrid fact she lies about being okay to those who care about her. She is one of my favorite modern characters because I see my younger self in her. Seeing her sidelined in fandom fucking sucks.

[@Polarpeach1]

*obviously this is a very surface level take

[@sapphicvampire8504]

She really is a relatable character i think shes one of my favorite protagonists relatability wise besides Reki from sk8 infinity and Mirabel from encanto. Also ur reasons r relatable too (being a cringy fandom kid was part of my teen years hshdshd)

[@DaystarCosplay247]

even in the whole daddy issue episode, I will be talking about this with dana soon, cause its bad poc rep.

[@noemiepace9020]

I honestly like Hunter just fine but I've seen people say how he should be the main character instead of Luz, and that just makes me cringe. I don't even need to explain why that would be a terrible idea just from a writing perspective. Luz is already a fantastic protagonist. It's as if she doesn't exist to these people, and is merely invisible.

[@CasuallyConsistent]

A show with hunter would last a single season. What would you even do after his character arc?

[@InuMokuba]

Because to them she doesn't. They can't put themselves on her at best and at worst it's because POCs should just stay in the background 😒. It's just funny how they feel others should be able to relate to their brooding white men stories, but then get all upset when they can't relate to a non-white/male character. The hypocrisy of it....not that every story has to speak to everyone, but that doesn't make them less valid or needing replacement

[@jspark8990]

Further the fandoms trauma jokes

[@spikethegamer1126]

@@CasuallyConsistent kill him? no issue of him coming back to the series at least

[@julianfischer6404]

@@dzthenerd578 We actually had something like that. It was called Randy Cunningham: 9th Grade Ninja and was forgotten by most of the people.

[@jarrickhillery8664]

You're correct about everything except Amphibia. Marcy is the clear favorite of the three girls. I'm not saying there aren't Sasha stans, but I've never seen a poll where she was the favorite.

[@robincint9926]

I’d agree with this one. The ranking usually goes Marcy, Sasha, Anne, which is unfortunate because Anne does get overshadowed a lot, but it’s not for the same reasons that are being pointed out here.

[@solsystem1342]

​@@robincint9926 People like sasha over anne? How? Anne's like, the driving force of the entire story's heart (her being adopted by the planter family).

[@skyblueblazes9332]

I bet if there was a mainstream show that had an all POC cast with no white characters, the fandom would still find a way to focus on anything over the main characters, and that’s honestly really sad

[@Chocolatindo]

Isnt Kipo exactly that? Nd I don't see anyone sidelining the main 3

[@disgustof-riley]

The lore

[@azurerandomness]

I'm honestly mostly here for Luz, King, Eda and recently Gus and Raine after they showed their chops I like Hunter mostly because Zeno Robinson voices him Gus deserves more attention in the fandom

[@brandonb4742]

Gus appreciation club

[@emptyafrican3810]

✊️

[@cutiepie120048]

👏👏👏

[@jazmakesstuff000]

Gus >>

[@emptyafrican3810]

@@jazmakesstuff000 yes sir, them vision power go stupid frfr🤣

[@entity707sfiles2]

I feel like the fandom projects onto Amity more because she fits the trope of “abused kid” than because of her race. In the Shera fandom, Adora is often the one who’s sidelined as the “dumb one,” and all the focus goes to Catra because she’s the “abused one.” Implicit bias may play a factor, but it may not be the main factor

[@colbaltmind5696]

I started calling this phenomenon "Draco Malfoy Syndrome" because when this happens in Fandom it seemed to have gotten its modern start or at least the basis for it from Harry Potter and how for some reason people got so attached to Draco Malfoy for having the bog standard "white and also mildly edgy" traits and ignoring other important characters because of it. and when a phenomenon has its roots in Harry Potter than you know it's an awful one

[@jspark8990]

Especially given it’s so often in rabdom with the Draco in leather pants troupe

[@colbaltmind5696]

@@jspark8990 exactly. Like I've seen so many fanworks treating Hunter like he's Draco Malfoy and some soft uwu boyfriend material when he's clearly an abused child who needs to stay far, FAR away from Belos.

[@jamieadams2589]

Wow, it's a shame there were no other white characters with edgy aspects in Harry Potter. Like, an orphan with a sacrifice complex. Oh well, definitely can't be people liking a villain

[@sapphirewings8638]

This is so true! My favorite book series is _Percy Jackson and the Olympians_ and one of my favorite characters is the main character Percy himself because I just love him as a character, and if he were real I would totally want to be his friend. I do think this is a problem, and even I've been guilty of this "syndrome" on a few occasions. I think people need to start focusing on the main character as well. Yes, you're allowed to have a favorite character that isn't the protagonist, but I honestly think it's hard to enjoy a story and the interactions of the characters in that story if you're only focusing on that one character all the time. There always will be a favorite character that someone may have, but it's important that you pay attention to all the other characters as well in order to fully understand the story and have a truly captivating experience. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[@watchm4ker]

The term you're looking for is "Draco in Leather Pants", with a dash of "Ron the Death Water".

[@Sohrleas]

Y'know, I absolutely adore Eda, she's the right amount of chaos and good intentions, but she'd be nothing like she is now if she never met Luz. The influence Luz has on the side characters is what makes them interesting and easy to love! I honestly wouldn't give a shit about Amity if Luz didn't care slightly. What I'm trying to say is that I question the media comprehension of any fan who says that the side characters in The Owl House are better/should be focused on more than Luz. And that I'm not surprised that a lot of the vocal people saying that are in America; our education system sucks.

[@jamieadams2589]

Luz being part of other people's character arcs doesn't make them a compelling character, just a good plot device

[@dylansharp8471]

@@jamieadams2589 Bullshit.

[@ConstantinDOSSOU-vy1zo]

​@@jamieadams2589a plot device is when its only purpose is the plot. A charcacter pushing character devloppment by interaction isn't a plot device 🤦. Luz is the heart of the serie , the perfect representation of all the themes and evolution. She is the perfect main character for this show

[@CrimsoniteSP]

Honestly, when it comes to villains, I love the villains that are more evil. If they're cunning, ruthless and basically just human garbage, it makes their rise to power a bit more believable and ever so sweeter to see their face punched in.

[@emma_nutella58]

What I like about the Owl house is that Hunter was given the proper time for a redemption his behaviour wasn’t all of a sudden changed overnight and also they didn’t try to redeem Belos as sympathetic no he’s just a insane man that is evil

[@floatlikeabrick]

13:51 the realization that the Baldur's Gate 3 fandom did the exact same shit with Wyll and Astarion, to the point that someone moded Wyll's dance cut scene onto Astarion just hit me like a ton of bricks Also people giving the vamp all the excuses in the world for the corrupt magistrate garbage while saying a 17 year-old Wyll should have know better than to get manipulated by a being that exists to manipulate

[@briarwolf0501]

I was so willing to watch Rei's full Star Wars trilogy, but spoilers informed me that Finn and Rei weren't endgame. I predicted Kylo would be shoehorned into that romance, and it was one of the few occasions when I hated the fact I was right.

[@baloneybender]

the way i’ve been saying all of this since 2020 and youtubers are finally talking about it, thank you

[@VirtuosoI]

I found it interesting Hunter interacting with Willow immediately started HunterxWillow which took off faster and became way more loved and popular than AmityxLuz. Even then Amity still gets more appreciation than her own girlfriend who is the main character. Gus is just there. It's kinda like Gus and Luz don't matter sometimes.

[@LilianOrchard]

Huntlow isn't more popular, Hunter stans just spam more. One small silver lining is that while Hunter stans are annoying and aggressive, they're often met with as much aggression in turn.

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

Also to add onto previous replies, HunterxWillow had always been there, people had been shipping it since Hunter first appeared in s2 just no one had noticed it until season 2b dropped. EDIT: i’ve seen more hate than love for it so honestly I’m surprised that was your first experience. For the first three weeks I only ever came across a lot of hate posts and comments about it. I prefer more positivity and looking at both sides of any argument and seeing the overwhelmingly amount of hate honestly tired me out so bad I had to leave the fandom for a bit. It was hectic and now I just make sure to drop in the community now and then. It’s only recently when the ship became less of a catalyst to a bomb.

[@linwin2232]

@@Charlotte226 it’s the case here. It isn’t always, but it is here

[@linwin2232]

@@catgames703 you proved yourself to be nothing more but a Hunter fan. You’re the exact problem Lily discusses. And sad backstory? That’s literally the problem. You are baffling on so many levels

[@linwin2232]

@@jimvoozhenzhan8435 Hunter is a trope we have seen dozens of times, and it’s boring. You’re endeared by something that’s been done far better before him

[@cameronsmiljan9374]

To address the thing with Amphibia, I love all 3 of the main characters for separate reasons. None of them have to do with race or ethnicity either. Anne - Is a lovable doofus who reminds me a lot of myself in many ways: Gets herself in a ton of shit without meaning to... has friends that she cares way more about than usually lets on... is extremely affectionate and at time overbearing when two of her friends get together (or are about to in the case of Sprig and Ivy). On top of all that, she's just one hell of a best friend and it would be awesome to see more people like her in the world. Marcy - I don't even need to say why I love Marcy since everyone loves her for basically the same reasons, but I will anyway: SHE'S A DORKY, CLUMSY AND NERDY CINNAMON ROLL AND OMG I RELATE TO HER SO HARD. Other than the qualities Anne has, Marcy is me to a fucking Tee. I've never related to a character any more than I have related to Marcy. Sasha - Bully and control freak turned Psychiatrist? Skilled fighter? LITERALLY BECOMES SECOND IN COMMAND TO AN ARMY THEN LEADS ONE??? Like... how do you write a character arc like that and still manage to make the character one of the most likeable people in the show? Forget the fact that she's the white "rich bitch" of the show, she had the most incredible character development out of everyone and became my favourite character INSTANTLY because of how she dealt with the toads and got them, and mostly Grime, to simultaneously respect and fear her. ALPHA BITCH, HELL YA. The sheer amount of fantastic writing with this character hands down sold me on her... that and her epic comeback guitar solo, cause come on... that was cool af of her to do at the end (plus the song was great anyway).

[@wizbuns]

"Willow had more grounds for a potential love interest than amity did" Gaaaaah!!! *punches wall* This physically pains me!

[@anna____bear8135]

At the begin of the owl house. I thought Luz and Willow were going to get together cause they have such a cute relationship. And I feel like Gus is one of my favorite characters in the show cause his scenes in season 1 were awesome. I just wanted a episode were Luz and Willow do Gus’s hair at other sleepover. They all just give off the bests of friends vibe which we don’t get to see more of.

[@solsystem1342]

❤yes. This would be precious!

[@theasinclaire52]

I really loved Rey Finn and Poe forming a found family in the first movie. And the lost potential is infuriating.

[@chadnorris8257]

Back when I watched shows more, the main character was generally kind of bland so almost everyone could relate to them, and the main villain is exciting because that's what drives the plot. The BBEG is at least as important as the main character, if not more important, because outside of slice of life stories there wouldn't be a story worth telling without a villain making drama happen.

[@asterling4]

often in action adventure fantasies, Big Bads are the blandest characters out there. they can drive the plot just fine without being interesting. fire lord ozai, the demogorgon, voldemort, most disney villains, i could go on-no depth or development whatsoever, and that doesn't make the plot any less exciting. and i'd argue main characters are definitely more important than villains. yes, villains are a force driving the story, but they are just that-a force. they don't need to be much of a character. plenty of plots don't have villains at all, and in many that do, a faceless force would serve just as well. but in order to care about a story in most cases, audiences NEED to identify/sympathize with the main character. and for that the main character must have some emotional depth and realness to them. they can't just be some nameless faceless force; they are not disposable the way a villain can be.

[@theMillieBun]

id like to add to a bit about the problems with Rise of Skywalker that Chris Terrio (who only write for RoS) seems to be a reylo having stated shit like this in a interview: "We’ve tried to pick up that complicated relationship that really has been present ever since the interrogation in Episode VII. When Ren takes off his mask, there’s a nakedness about him with Rey that he doesn’t express to anyone else. Rian developed that in fascinating ways and we’ve been able to develop it even further."

[@LilianOrchard]

Ew ew ew ew ew

[@gizoginjr]

What the actual…

[@StellarStarYeah]

I love all characters in the owl house but Luz is the most intresting, cause she’s the main character. Also I love her personality it’s amazing

[@gizoginjr]

Agreed. I have never rooted more for a fictional character in my entire life.

[@mcmallard9785]

also in one of the most recent episodes we got to see gus’s powers in motion (and they were really powerful too!) only to be overshadowed by the moment where hunter’s ears blushed😭

[@calicoham]

my favorite character in the owl house is Luz and Gus, there's so many little details going into the story about them people just miss them in the character development ENTIRELY, like hello. Luz is a people pleaser and is acting deranged because she wants to help everyone without even trying to think or help herself, Gus was a lonely kid who was literally suffering from other people manipulating him into giving them what they want and is healing from being used like that when he was just a kid. i could go off about how i just find stuff like this ANNOYING.

[@rachelmuessig4165]

On Star Wars: I was legitimately SO CONFUSED when they shifted to Kailo. Like....the chemistry between Rei and Fin was so obvious that all I could think was..."Did I misread this? Is that really not what they were going for?" I don't really do the "shipping" thing, so I legitimately had to rewatch the first movie to convince myself I wasn't imagining things. Aaaand Nope. I was not. Thank you so much for validating that, it's really good to know I wasn't the only one who saw the support and mutual admiration. Not that it means it has to be romantic, but dang do we need more healthy relationships on the big screen, and this would have been an excellent example. They're adorable together.

[@January-h1u]

I’m not a Star Wars fan so I’ve never really seen any of the movies, much less anything about Finn and Rey but that small video clip of them together and you describing how they comforted each other was enough to get me to ship them

[@Holycarp12345]

I literally cheered when you said grace was your favorite infinity train character, her and Hazel are my favorites, so damn underrated. Also loved every point you made in this

[@ysabellarivera8166]

Its actually really refreshing to see someone hype up finnrey's relationship so much. I like finnpoe even if I dont ship it and i support ppl who ship them, but finnrey always had my heart and they were my first ship in the star wars fandom bc of their amazing chemistry in The Force Awakens. It's so validating to hear someone gush over them too. A very pleasant surprise from a video essay I clicked solely for luz. You have a new sub, and i am clicking that bell!

[@COMPUTEROSIS]

It both surprises me and not surprised me how many times I do hear the "it's not about race" or preferably [to them] that I "made it about race" when I'm not white, not male, and even not cis but most can't get past me being black to get to the misogynoir or even transmisogynoir because being presumed white in how I articulate my texts [online] to an borderline-essay degree while everyone else around my online spaces (regardless of one's actual age) text like psuedo-children at best (as a disservice to actual children and how valid they are by default) or willfully younger at worse when using such rebuttals about race does come off like some edgy white teen telling me to "kys" (which did happen, but my blackness is also not a conduit to read minds that such edgy white teen under 19/still in high school was having a "bad time" and chose their "[black] friend" to be like any white adult online when the non-white individual has a more valid point than them), but anyway... The irony of how I get into shows/movies/etc. is less about who's the main character (even if just seeing a PoC as the lead is and has been my go-to "you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention" mentality since I fucking grew up and stopped lapping over the next best [white] thing since new bread) but rather who's names are attached to the project in general and this was before terf-who's-name-gives-her-more-publicity stole from The Worst Witch book series and made it the most phobic-driven playground that no [white or otherwise] audience could see coming, let alone care if they weren't trans because [white] transphobia trumps out any form of obvious racism and/or anti-Semitism, my glob... I got into MLP:FiM because of the crew that got involved by the first season before becoming disinterested time over time once the new crew took over and both unintentionally and intentionally pandered to the [adult] fandom harder in that "we see this as a bonus, nothing more" kind of condescending... In regards to main character specifically, it's how I still love Adventure Time and how I'll always hate Stalin Übermensch even when the formal was dipping towards more anthology-based episodes without Finn (oh wow, two of my favorite characters are both named Finn) pre-Distant Lands and by the latter's 100th episode made it clear that any PoC-coded [supporting] character has no real say other than "believe in white boy with legacy powers"... Circling to The Owl House, it was seeing Luz on the Season 1 poster pre-premiere that got me to try to watch the show week-by-week (even getting a hoot out of yet another Disney show trying to do an aftershow-type show, which has become just a classic fandom-driven expectation for literally anything for better and for worse by that point) followed by Willow and Gus being the most valid support to Luz and not putting any [more] though to Amity other than "oh hey, Mae from The Duff's doing the voice"... or even Hunter post-Season 2 reveal other than "wait a second, is that Omar/The Green Poncho voicing this? Yep, Zeno Robinson, neat"... Yet, just like past shows I've mentioned already (except Adventure Time and even Craig of the Creek), I'm not in such a hurry to catch up once even I can see how quite disappointing a show was aligns with the [worse] aspect of [white] fandom even unintentionally like someone failing to separate art from artist when said artist is still alive and making royalty bank on their relevance being mentioned... This is quite an incoherent comment I've made, actually, and the only other thing I could say is that it's neat how much JJ has changed for the better leading up to The Force Awakens even while Disney threw out his skeletal structure and hired Rian to just "do his thing" under their approval... It's possible for white-gazing writers to not let their own personal white favoritism ooze into a collaborative show/movie even if their name is billed first [right under and/or alongside the production/distribution company even], yet time after time for as long as these [white] fandoms lap it all up in borderline-ignorant/malicious comfort with their financial support in-tow, let alone lack other non-white voices in-staff to avoid such obvious white favoritism pitfalls in-show/in-movie, even those that legit break such a [white] mold and then some can still get undermined when word-of-mouth/recommendationing focusing on the wrong thing that isn't main character, story, and/or theme to a lesser extent if ensembles are just your story-telling preference... Other than that, semi-unrelated, Everything Everywhere All At Once is great because Michelle Yeoh plays the best main character, Stephanie Hsu and Ke Huy Quan play the best supporting characters to Michelle Yeoh's main character, James Hong plays a great support role to the overall story, and this movie isn't great just because Jamie Lee Curtis is also in this movie~

[@ronjoe17]

In another ‘fun’ case of this: in the new TMNT show, half the turtles are voiced by black VAs (Raph and Mikey) and the other half are voiced by white VAs (Leo and Don). Guess which turtles get the most fanart and fandom focus :/ the only somewhat bright side is April, who is black in this version, does get a decent amount of fan attention too and is considered one of the best parts of RotTMNT. …she still doesnt get as much attention as Leo and Don unfortunately but at least she’s not totally ignored.

[@mrjackel3102]

That really sucks to hear I haven't watched rotTMNT yet but Mickey and raph have always been my favorite

[@mikailaturkleson7472]

Oh that's such a fucking travesty too! Rise Raph is the best Raph we've ever gotten! He deserves due props!

[@themenagerie6455]

Doesn't Raph usually take lead over Mikey and Donatello since he's leo's lancer?

[@HeilRay]

Leo and Raphael always got the more fanart cause they're the ones always butting heads. The fug you on. Also Leo is like the leader most the time in any incarnation. Michael is usually the comic relief but as things get more comical his niche isn't as needed so his time to shine isn't as special.

[@tortoiseoflegends4466]

I always thought Leo and Raph always got the most attention? Especially as nearly all personal conflict between the characters stems from those two. Tbh the only character I rarely see mentioned as anyone's favourite is Donatello, everybody seems to love Mikey.

[@JokermanJohnny]

This sounds like a repeat of Sucy and Lotte being shoved into the sidelines in the latter half of LWA.

[@LittleDevilAkuma]

Exactly this

[@jamieadams2589]

You say it's bad to ignore an obvious repeating pattern but go on to ignore the obvious repeating pattern that all these charcaters the fan base latches onto are bad, unpleasant or downright evil. People love a villain, especially if they get a redemption

[@asterling4]

i raise you the argument that when black and brown characters are bullies or generally unpleasant, they do NOT get treated with the same level of "omg sexy villain." instead they get shit on SO BAD for the things white characters are excused for. a prime example of this is the mcu's flash thompson. instead of the sexy villain treatment & redemption frenzy, he got written as the world's most horrific irredeemable bully in everyone's fanfictions. fans love their enemies-to-lovers but they'd still sooner ship peter with tony (yes. you read that right. tony) than flash. people love their WHITE villains.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

Thanks for the vid. “White favouritism” is now in my vocabulary😂. Studios are so scared of not giving main characters that the majority can relate to, but when they take the risk, it often works out. There will still be the loud ones who reject, but for the most part, it works out.

[@topazrandoms8898]

The Owl House is hands down my favorite cartoon currently. Each character for better or for worse brings something interesting to the table. Each character is fun, entertaining, has depth to some or most degree, and the overall story is intriguing. The episode with King finding out who he was, was so heartbreaking, and seeing Luz finally carve her palisman had to be one of the moments I was looking forward to since it was mentioned in the story. My point is don't go into a show for the shipping, and don't like a character for their skin tone. Go in with a clear head and give the show and characters a chance before going ham. Heck, I didn't go in with Amity thinking she'd be a love interest. I thought she would just be a friend. I never really watch a show to ship, I watch a show to see if I will enjoy it. That's just me.

[@MrDesmorto]

Luz is my favorite character in the series, she reminds me enough of me when I was the same age as her, in addition to being Latin and mixing Spanish and English, which I sometimes do in my native language, but yes there is white favoritism in these animations, where most of the attention goes to these characters.

[@gamepopper101]

Oh good lord, the amount of people in the Infinity Train fandom I had to assert that Simon was an unremorseful murderer and abuser just days after the season three finale. I'd have to do a lot more investigating, but I swear that people's adoration for Simon and demands to be more sympathetic to him increased after his graphic demise, even though I think it was the best way for a villain to go down in the entire show. Also, my favourite Infinity Train character is Lake, but Grace is a good choice too. :)

[@unknown_limes]

Hunter very quickly became a Draco Malfoy 2.0 in the fandom. This character already exists in shit series, why does he have to be in every sci-fi/fantasy thing now? I don't pretend to ignore my bias towards white characters as a white person, it's something I need to change in my own work and fandom interactions, but holy shit, can we focus on literally any other character? Can we talk about something else for like an hour? Is that too much?

[@BroitmeOli]

I don't understand how people dismiss Luz so much (besides the racism), she's just so freaking adorable and I love her relationship with every character around her

[@Just_To_Say]

SAME MATE- She was my favourite character from the moment we met her. Then, when I realised how many folk in the fandom were dismissive of her, I was legitimately shocked. Human Appreciation Society should be replaced to specifically become Luz Appreciation Society, lmao.

[@solsystem1342]

She had me at spiders! (I love snakes, bugs and other animals with negative perceptions).

[@dylansharp8471]

@@Just_To_Say Can't we have both?

[@Just_To_Say]

@@dylansharp8471 Yes, yes we can. 👍

[@Gutslove]

I watch the Owl House for the wacky shenanigans, Luz being awesome, and also Owl Lady wife

[@ayt3877]

I still say I liked the first Star Wars movie from the new trilogy. I was so excited about Finn's potential as a former stormtrooper and really liked Rey's whole thing about being "no one important" and was delightfully surprised by Poe, and felt a connection to this trio in a way i never did with the previous one (besides Leia).

[@DuneStone6816]

I think you misdiagnose the issue. Did you notice that all those white characters you cited are antagonist? Amity, Hunter, Kylo, Simon, and Andrea all play the role of sympathetic antagonist to the main character. I think what you're seeing is fans finding that character type most interesting. The fact that this character type is almost always white is incidental to their popularity.

[@StariNoah]

People make it like if you like the main character it makes you a fake fan, not a part of the fandom or community, terrible person, basic, someone to avoid. When usually the main character is likable or the most well rounded character

[@eanna3781]

I never noticed the hands thing with Finn and Rey and now I've got a big ol' smiley face going because me and my vest friend do that too. I love that your vids almost always leave me needing to take a minute after the reveal of stuff like that

[@palettecolor1904]

Gus was always my fav in the owl house cuz 1. black rep, and 2. JUST LOOK AT HIM! HES SUCH A LITTLE GOOBER! and once he started getting attention by the story and he started doing cool shit i was SO MAD to see everyone focusing on either hunter or that fair skinned guy with the tail. (i have refused to learn his name out of pettiness.) I dont even dislike hunter, dude's great and his friendship with gus makes my heart melt but the fandom's treatment of them just makes me roll my eyes.

[@starmic1852]

Then there's Encanto fandom which is basically "Mirabel who?" It's all about Bruno, Camilo, Dolores, Luisa, Pepa, and Isabella to some extent. Not sure if white favoritism applies here but the darkest characters like Felix and Antonio are about as popular as Mirabel in the fandom.

[@raheemaslam7363]

I’m assuming that no one like the happy and peppy characters

[@ayannabranchcomb7535]

Idk how anyone could watch encanto and say mirabel was boring. She was LITERALLY the heart of the house/family and singlehandedly started them on the path of family healing, which is also incredibly relatable. People wanna be “different” by hating on the MC but they just end up looking dumb

[@Kamechan98]

Which is ironic considering how the story was about how Mirabel was unseen and unappreciated by her family and Abuela treating her like the black sheep of the family. Now the movie is out and the fandom seems to attach themselves to anyone but Mirabel.

[@jamieadams2589]

@@ayannabranchcomb7535 there's a difference between being important to the plot and being interesting to watch. One is a plot device, the other is a fun character

[@MusicKat217]

This!!! Mirabel is my favorite Disney protagonist, aside from Ariel from the Little Mermaid. She's empathetic, kind, funny, and overall makes the story a million times better. Yet everyone in the fanbase is obsessed with their "precious boys" like Camilo and Bruno, who barely have any screentime. And it's those people who call Mirabel a stupid or boring character, when she has the most personality and development out the rest. I just don't understand the hatred for her.

[@JokermanJohnny]

That clip of Kylo Ren with Vanitas' voice fit way too well. :O

[@kellieseiler7105]

I think one reason (other than the race stuff discussed in the video) why people prefer side characters to main characters is because main characters are only written off as self inserts for the audience. I mean sometimes they are, but main characters can have more interesting potential than just a self insert.

[@knoniezzimlou2193]

I honestly don’t have an issue with amity and hunter as characters. I think they’re actually quite nice, and serve well for the story. I think it’s mainly the poopy fandom though. As someone who actually favours Willow, Gus and Luz, it kinda makes me sad that don’t get as much love.

[@wellhello1575]

Don't worry Lily. I'll exclaim "What a twist!" any time you need.

[@PearseNation]

I like Amity, but the things that really impact me in owl house are Luz’s interactions and responses to the characters around her. Like the found family relationship with Eda (sometimes King, but those moments get me less), the relationship with her mom, and her relationship with Amity. Her relationship with Amity is interesting in that the growth in the beginning is all on Amity changing which definitely pulls focus onto her, but it only gets really good when Luz starts to notice and grow as well. Like Grom Fright (having growth for both of them) was great, but my favorite episode in the show is Reaching Out. And mostly it’s because the conflict and resolution there is really all about Luz’s coping response and needed growth.

[@ItsJustJess20]

I find that Lumity is more satisfying and investing than Huntlow because with Lumity you get to see Luz strengthen her relationship with Amity and see her fix one of the issues that she has been confronting since the first episode (which is to grow up and control her impulses so that she can do better at establishing bonds), all while she and Amity act like wholesome silly blushing goofs in love. Then there’s Huntlow where it’s just…a ship that Hunter fans can’t stop obsessing about that isn’t canon l and it makes me feel nothing. Like, I got more excited watching Luz and Amity kiss and seeing Amity defend Luz against her mom in the most recent episode than on anything with Hunter and Willow. I don’t have a problem with Hunter and everyone who likes him, but I just don’t care about Huntlow and I do not want Hunter to be the main character whatsoever, it is actually a really bad idea just thinking about it.

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

I think that honestly just really comes down to lack of development time. It’s too quick, there wasn’t enough basis and you aren’t going to milk a lot out a ship that A- doesn’t have the main character. Or B- isn’t the main ship of the show. Or its just preference. I personally know i’d like it so so so so much more if it had as long as a time to grow as Lumity did. If things weren’t left as quiet background blushes, yknow? I can tell it’s still going to be somewhat canon lol, at least on Hunter’s end. There’s no way they’d try to push a crush trope with the very little time they have left to squeeze in any content because of the abrupt cancellation of 90% of s3. I kinda just have to accept that the ship isn’t what it could’ve been 🤷🏾‍♀️ I don’t think it ever would’ve gotten as much anyways due to Hunter being introduced in s2 and the fact that there is already a leading main ship. It would’ve definitely had a more backseat vibe. Anyways, no one should want Hunter as the mc, that is terrible writing and I question what are people smoking sometimes.

[@ItsJustJess20]

Yep, thats exactly what I think as well 👍

[@solierix]

Raeda and Huntlow eat em up tho

[@twentyonetortas5921]

wait why is huntlow a thing? what made fans ship them anyways?

[@ItsJustJess20]

Well that’s simple actually. There are moments in the show where we see Willow and Hunter do something which ends with either one of the two (but mostly Hunter) looking at the other with a blushing face and getting flustered. What happens as a result of this is that people who are obsessed with Hunter would look as these scenes (which practically have no significance and means nothing to me) as not only further proof that he is a good person (which he is not) but also as proof that a relationship between Hunter and Willow is bound to happen, hence the creation of Huntlow.

[@karenroque3583]

Labyrinth Runners was officially the episode of this show that actually pissed me off. Hollow Mind got me irritated, and it’s because I knew by then exactly what the show wanted to do with Hunter’s character and I already wasn’t liking it. But LR would have been so much better if he just wasn’t there entirely. I have been waiting for an episode just having Willow, Gus, and Amity interacting with each other being Luz’s friends who are still a little awkward that she’s dating Willows former bully. I love that in the episode we see how Amity still sees Willow as weak, but we don’t get a very satisfying conclusion to it beyond Willow saying “No, Im not” and then everything is Gucci, when we could have had something like a “Your girlfriend has more faith in me than you ever did”. Just let them talk, let them fight, they are two of Luz’s favorite people for Christ sake let them reconcile for real. Or we could have had Gus interacting with Matholomew as the reason he has trust issues now. Have him help him realize that he shouldn’t be angry at himself just because other people are cruel enough to take advantage of his kindness. Just, fuck give these characters something. They are Luz’s first real friends and all they’ve been getting are scraps. And now it’s worse because the show wants them to be supporting characters for Hunter, a character who really didn’t need to exist. I don’t want him to be a second protagonist, we already have that with Eda, and she’s fantastic because she actually cared about Luz from day one.

[@johnarbuckle7110]

Yeah Lr felt like it was two episodes squished onto one, most deffently if Disney hadn't canceled it there would be been more episodes focusing on them

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

As much as I love those two episodes (i like episodes that develop characters in general, esp with deep talks and I will always soak that up like a sponge as long as it’s executed correctly) But I agree. When I saw the synopsis for that episode I got really excited thinking wait it might be a Matty and Gus episode, only for Luz’s and Hunter’s trippy mind traumatising trip extravaganza episode to end with that cliff hanger and silently say “...the other lead character in the episode is going to be Hunter, isn’t it.” and though i was DISAPPOINTED, I still hoped that maybe just maybe, Matty would be involved to some degree. *N* *0* *p* *e*

[@primaryhoodies6386]

I just realized I’ve only seen one au where Gus replaced luzs role. One. I’ve seen thousands with amity and hunter. And I’ve never seen any with willow. Man thats depressing.

[@peaprod0004]

My first impression of TOH was Lumity fanart, and I genuinely couldn't tell which one was the main character. Was pleasantly surprised with the truth!

[@davidjohnson6087]

Hey so.... what I'm about to say literally doesn't defeat a single argument you made. Like,, the video's great. But my fandom goblin brain is kicking in so I'm gonna be a bit of a dick and mention it anyway. at 15:38 you seem to imply that Sasha gets the most fandom focus of the Amphibia trio. That's,,, not true? I think? Ao3 has 3075 fics tagged with Marcy Wu, while there's only 2896 tagged with Sasha. It's a hell of an anal difference, I'll admit. But for this particular case it certainly doesn't seem to show a strong white favouritism. Especially when the entire fandom (at least, the ones in my echo tunnel) collectively flipped their shit over Marcy being mostly excluded from season 3. Again though, this isn't to say your argument's wrong. Far as I can tell, every other point you bring up seems basically correct, especially because those points all coalesce into the statement that "fandom culture in generally racist", which is absolutely correct.

[@Mathue360]

I also love grace from Infinity Train, a strong black woman portrayed with depth rare and beautiful! It still makes me upset when I think about how racism plays a role in the movies and TV. I love Luz and want more of it! Amphibia is amazing for all of the non-white representation

[@Luke-lq9rn]

The thing with The Owl House is there's only 3 MAIN characters: Luz, Eda and King while everyone else is an antagonist or supporting character, and people are mad that Amity hasn't magically been made a main character. Like they're insulted that Amity and Hunter have to share the supporting character status with Gus and Willow, despite the fact both characters get way more time and attention than characters like Willow, who will likely never get the attention she deserves because of the cut Season 3. Like hell, white favouritism is so prominent characters like Boscha get more attention from the fandom than Gus, Willow, Raine, Camila, and the rest of the prominent BIPOC characters.

[@IronycheinPain]

Wait, *Boscha* gets more attention? I barely see stuff with her

[@cheerio1595]

I would say Boscha probably got a lot of attention during the first season when she was more important. Though I don't see anyone talk about her anymore. Also I'm pretty sure Gus gets a lot of attention. He's not the most popular but I know many people like him.

[@IronycheinPain]

@@rsc5721 same.

[@dylansharp8471]

"like Willow, who will likely never get the attention she deserves" Say what?

[@fan_maty08]

"Boscha get more attention formthe fandom than Gus , Willow,Raine , Camila " there are 2 options : 1You live under a rock 2You like say bullshit

[@ammarmubeen6524]

I fucking love Luz Noceda she is genuinely the best character in the Owl house. I am so happy that she’s given the time and space to be the best part of the show. I don’t actually hate Hunter mostly cuz I don’t spend a lot of time in the fandom spaces and so I can just take him at face value and I love Lumity because I love their sweet bean friends to lovers story. It annoys me to no end that people ruin such a fun wholesome ship

[@justsomeguyanimations]

Here's how race played into this. No one would be saying this if gus and willow were white. It's not racism and I, as a rather black guy myself, find it kinda weird that that's what you'd jump to as the culprit to why Gus and Willow were sidelined, despite the fact that 1. Amity and Hunter are just interesting characters with fun arcs and 2. Gus and Willow still get development and despite being fairly sidelined come back at essentially the same level. Calling it white favoritism also ignores the fact that if you made the golden guard black or Amity Korean for example someones gonna call it racism because it fits some steryotype or it makes the POC suffer, which relegates them to less interesting roles by default because people can't let characters be characters without calling every potentially offensive arrangement of characters white supremacy or some other shit

[@insertunoroginalnamehere6189]

I agree, i mean i kinda like Gus and willow especially because of the episodes that focused on them in season 2 but compared to characters like hunter who is a literal grimwalker made by an evil witch hunter human they kinda seem boring

[@whatever5401]

As a POC I agree with this

[@IronheartvsMiles]

A comment trying to hide racism. Yes, i will listen to you.

[@whatever5401]

@@IronheartvsMiles you when someone doesn't agree with everything you say: "Is this racism?"

[@Kyo-kichi]

I never actually interacted with the fandom for TOH and never knew that about the show. I LOVED Luz because she was just genuinely funny to me and found her character to be charming. I actually plan on watching TOH with my internet sibling soon and am excited to see Luz. I also thought Amity was rude at first but she eventually grew on me. Hell, I haven't even gotten to the second season yet as I started watching Amphibia eheheh-

[@junemon5843]

subtweeting abt me on youtube

[@Kyo-kichi]

@@junemon5843 HELP- Hi Sibby :D

[@nelliemellietellie4915]

I kinda forgot how great the chemistry between rey and finn was in the 7th movie. Maybe because of all the others completely got rid of any semblance of an arc that was left.

[@alyssinclair8598]

Fin was the protagonist and Rey and Poe were great side characters because they played off him so well. Without finn to centre them they became so fucking dull

[@snyhmr]

luz has been my favourite character ever since mikaila's video about her. it really sucks that she's underappreciated as the protagonist and a LOT of it has to do with both racism and people's tendencies to latch onto sandbox characters -- and it usually has something to do with the weird obsession of wanting to project more grittiness into children's cartoons, too. luz doesn't appeal to people because she's latina and because she has so much fun, eagerness, love, and compassion in her. everything about this show, its core and heart all come from luz. luz is the character who brings everyone else together and it just sucks that people ignore her.

[@ragefulhobbit]

I flipping LOVE Luz!!

[@Jumikana]

A contributing factor to the dismissal of the main characters may be something i have noticed in parts of Genshin Impact community - an attitude that characters who are not in some way miserable are "boring" - the main characters most of the time tend to be the ones who are a positive influence on people around them and lift them out of their misery

[@jacobb4795]

I like Amity and Hunter but this show definitely works better with Luz as the lead

[@marqusmedina5983]

White favoritism in media is a given but it’s scary how prevalent it is in the FANBASE. I myself am guilty of focusing on Sasha and Marcy over Anne and it’s only mostly because of their comparative lack of screen time. AND I’M BLACK! Thankfully I avoided that with the cast of molly McGee

[@ahmedmanaseer8696]

Yea I’m getting tired of ignoring the main character like they are literally the selling point The driving force I’m tired of the same trop over and over again of a character that you relate to 100% of the time because there the most bland thing ever Luz is fun she is energetics and I love when she speaks bilingually even though I don’t understand Spanish but she is The best written TV main character in a long time Also why do people keep liking abusers I liked lumity the moment amity dyed her hair purple but I saw inkling of it building up but seriously people only liking it because of not important reason such as amity’s race and enemies to lovers this is absolutely ridiculous.

[@jamieadams2589]

Yeah, not important reasons like the formation of the narrative

[@ahmedmanaseer8696]

@@jamieadams2589 How do you form a narrative without a main character

[@jamieadams2589]

@@ahmedmanaseer8696 the same way you form one without side characters, with great difficulty

[@TheCrow0029]

I feel like TOH is suffering currently because of the cuts to S3. The plot is totally contrived and it’s moving forward at a breakneck pace, and Hunter is being thrust to the forefront because his backstory is needed for the plot. The show has lampshaded this already. There are no beach episodes for Luz to just “Luz around.” It’s unfortunate, because it’s making the show worse.

[@dylansharp8471]

Worse?

[@Ponderpine]

I feel like people also latched on to Amity and Hunter because many people are a big fan of characters with an inner struggle. Like Amity was a bully and had a bad home life. Intriguing. Hunter is on the bad side and finds it fun, now we find out his bad upbringing and his uncle. Intriguing. People who are well off fall to the back of the mind because there isn't much to figure out about them. Same reason why everyone is obsessed with the other family members in Encanto. It's always about opening up that mystery box, especially the ones with a rough exterior.

[@williamlancto3655]

Gus is the one who really got the shaft, out of all the side kid characters I feel he is the only one who hasn't gotten some arc. You got Amity escaping the influence of her toxic parents, you have Willow embracing what she is actually good at and becoming a confident badass, and with Hunter with the whole realizing he is a disposable clone and learning how to actually be a kid and make friends. Also I didn't know Willow was supposed to be Korean until fairly recently, honestly not sure how you are supposed to realize that based on the show itself unless you happen to know that Park is a very common Korean surname.

[@lovecoremarbs]

relating to the whole friendship is magic change, i remember younger me being extremely confused why we were taking colorful horses in lord of the rings territory and not sticking to writing friendship letters to the princess about how twilight and pinkie shared a cookie

[@flaskhjertako]

Oh, lily your favorite character from infinity train is the character in a system that prejudices itself against a minority realizing the system is fucked and trying to do good, oh color me shocked, my dear content creator! Truly shocked!

[@justsomeguy9514]

Hey Great video I was just bothered by how u kept saying hunter is a villain. I think he was probably intended to be a foil to Luz. Just in case you don’t know the difference, foil=interrupts the protagonist because of their own separate motivation, villain=interrupts the protagonist because their motivation is to see the protagonist fail. Hunter’s motivation is to impress Belos, and Luz gets in the way of that. This doesn’t really matter it was just making me mad in the video when you kept saying it.

[@skelemania356]

i just wanna add another character to the discourse surrounding hunter as a beloved redeemed character darius more enjoyable than hunter as a character, but where tf is his love

[@jamieadams2589]

Everywhere. Who doesn't love the tired gay uncle with slime magic?

[@raydgreenwald7788]

@@jamieadams2589 yes, Darius should get a mini series!

[@Zanerus]

Infinity Train has one more season after book 3 about a pair of co dependent Asain American men who do briefly discuss the racism faced of bi racal people.

[@luistrejo3326]

They’re actually Asian Canadian but I noticed that too.

[@Zanerus]

@@luistrejo3326 Thank you for the correction. I was going off memory when describing it.

[@durandus676]

3:29 seeing people do this with Bocchi the rock has me so burnt on even watching the anime despite being a manga reader. Sure she has her extreme social anxiety but it is just so reductive. 9:00 I think this happens because of the “self insert” fantasy/fallacy. People will just write off an MC for no real reason and claim they’re too generic or whatever if they’re relatable or kinda normal, in anime people will call MCs with personalities that are in no way normal inserts because that’s just what they’re doing too the character not necessarily the intention when making a relatable, likeable or amiable character

[@chillpenguin3481]

12:07 OH MY GOD I NEVER NOTICED THAT IM GONNA CRY THATS SO CUTE

[@grintheartist647]

Why are your descriptions of the characters and relationships of Gus, Willow, Amity, and Hunter so broad. Describing a character as a sad white boy, barely going into Gus or Willow’s characters and journeys, etc. You constantly blame white favoritism because of the fandom’s reaction to Amity and Hunter but the show has no control over that. Even if Gus feels a bit sidelined but Willow has had a lot of character growth to be stronger physically and mentally; I would compare her character to someone like Noelle from Deltarune just toned down a bit. You also don’t seem to take into account that the show was shortened and a lot had to be sacrificed so they could finish the show properly. Characters like Mattholomule and Steve were supposed to have a side plot together but that was cut. I think you are taking fan reactions and lack of too much spotlight for Willow and Gus to make this a race issue when you can chalk this up to they had plans for them in later seasons but couldn’t do as much because of Disney.

[@IronheartvsMiles]

Comment makes no sense.

[@jeremiahmichael5417]

The women who like Kylo Ren are the same women who got turned on by the Boston Marathon Bombers mug shot.

[@ryanfletcher6415]

If someone made an Adventure/Fantasy or slice of life comedy series that consist of black, Latinos and Asians characters and no white characters at all, I guarantee the fandom would most likely not overly praise it and just ignore it.

[@kyarabarrion4523]

They did it's called Kippo and not too many ppl talk about it.

[@ryanfletcher6415]

@@kyarabarrion4523 Oh yeah, haven't seen it yet. Should check it out though.

[@catgames703]

I started watching Kipo today and it's really amazing!!! Honestly, it's an underrated gem and worth watching

[@vixouu7925]

Avatar’s world is based ENTIRELY on Asian culture.

[@czerkitka141]

Damn, I really do like this channel but some points are so insanely stupid - it has literally nothing to do with their skin color, NOTHING at all Lee is main protagonist of TWD and he is fucking beloved - even though he was only in one of the 4 parts of the game People often (often but not always) love characters that aren’t main characters in general because: They want to be more quirky and stand against show „forcing on us” who is the most important character They are relating to main character and they see them as default They see world through main character eyes as if it was them - so other people would be potential love intrests/friends and obviously - could end up being more intresting Main characters in general are just written as fairly likeable, not standing out characters and people love to love ODD, WEIRD and sometimes MEAN characters when they aren’t at risk of actually getting hurt by them - and those are usually not main characters

[@lredacted6889]

Lol did u uniorocnially pull a “ racism no real because famous black character “. None of the shows mentioned here are shown through the perspective of the main character , if ur gunna justify ur racism at least make good points . Imagine comepltety twisting what the writers are trying to convey with the show by implying that it’s from a different perspective when the show it’s self it’s showing of a group characters not just protagonist . Shows are centered around protagonist and there lives , If the show was from the protagonist perspective we’d here narrating to let the audience know . But it’s not , the only perspective these show are created in are the writers perspectives . I sunset u rewatch this video and try to learn instead projecting ur bigotry , good riddance

[@czerkitka141]

@@lredacted6889 Please tell me that you’re joking with this comment I am begging you You seriously called me racist because I try to explain why people can like certain characters and it has NOTHING to do with their skin color?

[@czerkitka141]

@@lredacted6889 And I didn’t say „racism no real” - racism is very real but not everything is racism Some people liking Amity more than Luz isn’t racism

[@ic236]

Yeah wasn't until some TOH post pointed out everyone's obsession of Hunter and sidelining Gus and Willow who are GREAT characters that i made me reflect

[@dylansharp8471]

Sidelining?

[@littleghost4686]

I started watching the show because of Luz, I stayed for Luz, but Gus quickly became my favourite character. I'm not entitled enough to demand that he be the main character because that's Luz's role and the story wouldn't make sense otherwise (for one she's the audience surrogate). I watch the show because the show is good and it got me invested for what it is and doesn't need to change. Do I wish Gus had more episodes? Yes, because I wanna know what that whole glowy eye thing was about and I feel like some characters would have gotten more if the show hadn't been cut short, but I don't watch the show for him. Any episode with him in a staring role is just a pleasant surprise.

[@spikethegamer1126]

grace is awesome, actually why do ppl love Simon so much (thats rhetorical watch the damn video) she is beauty, she is grace, she's a mom in space

[@Deinonuchus]

Luz was, is, and always will be, my favorite Owl House character. And yeah, Gus and Willow got screwed. As for Star Wars, what they did to Finn was criminal.

[@frankienayman3641]

my favorite infinity train character is Lake, thanks for pretending to b surprised

[@DudeInTheJacket123]

Let’s see how this goes.

[@johnwebb2736]

I used to avoid picking main characters as my favorite characters until my old sister told me her favorite Avatar character was Aang. I thought it was a default choice, like "of course, they're your favorite character, they're the main character you're supposed to like them the best."

[@Rorygloryhole]

*never got into star wars, didn't know anything of it, listening to the Finn story* :"( all I wanna do now is draw him being happy and Rey before the change.

[@cheeseisherelive]

I absolutely love Luz with my whole heart. She’s so great.

[@commanderriptide7723]

It's really sad when people think that critics are bad people. Pointing out flaws is how we get better. It's also sad that people try to force things onto shows and characters. Just enjoy the God damn show and stop attacking critics. It's wrong and everyone who does this should be ashamed of themselves. Ok no more rant, very good video.

[@jamieadams2589]

They said, getting mad at the people criticising this video

[@commanderriptide7723]

Criticism and attacking are not the same. I want people to stop attacking critics. I am achieving this through criticism.

[@jamieadams2589]

@@commanderriptide7723 can you shed some light on what "attacking" means when claiming everyone is actually super racist for liking the mean, multidimensional characters is simply "criticism"

[@lbelle8228]

I think that your point really shines through in labyrinth runners as much as I like Amity and Hunter, Gus and Willow have been here since season one and they still have barely any character development and the only way they can get character development if they share it with Amity and Hunter

[@dylansharp8471]

False.

[@viko1326]

There is a fourth season of infinity train, about Ryan and Min-gi, two Korean boys who fix their friendship

[@lerfarts]

I love Simon but I find the fandom hype around him ridiculous. Every single character in infinity train is so well written and goes through incredible characters arcs. Grace is one of my favorite characters in all of fiction- Ryan and Min-Gi have such a wholesome arc about reconnecting and chasing their dreams… Jesse was super fun and relatable to me personally… like there are so many good and diverse characters in this show and while I find Simon fascinating he’s far from what makes infinity train worth watching. He’s a great foil to Grace, an example of how the train can fail people, and above all: an antagonist. The fandom needs to stop making him “uwu baby I can fix him” like no- you can’t. Stop! That was Grace’s arc!!!

[@goldenharp5415]

Few things like I wish Anime would drop the fan service cause it’s distracting and takes away from a lot of fun or interesting things it has to say otherwise, I actually liked Finn the most at first because his chemistry is just picture perfect with Rey and Po, the only thing I wished for Simon is that he could have changed and become better but eh sometimes someone is to far gone.

[@faishiro5009]

So, I am not sure if this is some weird sort of internalized racism and I am willing to be called out if it is, I prefer seeing people who represent different cultures and backgrounds than me. Like the Owl House and Amphibia have been great for me and I have enjoyed them. Like especially whenever you get to see some of that culture naturally shine through, like when Anne turns Stumpy's into a Thai restaurant. Like and I feel I have identified more with a character than Luz, a geeky, book obsessed and hyper active kid who wants to go on a big adventure. Like to me, a story is not good based on how similar to me and it is much more important that kids are able to identify themselves, ESPECIALLY like those that are often maligned for things like their culture and skin tone. And it is also important that people who come from house holds that hold some racist views see it.

[@ScottishAxolotl]

I actually started watching the owl house randomly one day. Up until I watched the owl house, I had seen no content other than a single speed draw vid of Lumity. That was it, meaning that I got more than just Luz as a pleasant surprise. Basically, what I'm saying is I avoided all content and was able to enjoy the show even more because of that. I dont have much else to say other than that. Have a nice day to everyone who reads this.

[@solaris4022]

lets be honest- these kinds of people want a white, blonde haired, blue eyed straight male as a main character and would happily ignore any minorities or poc.

[@jamieadams2589]

Or they want characters with negative traits to flesh them out. You know, the thing all these charcaters have in common

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

@@jamieadams2589 i’d like to agree with you, but even Matty was introduced in a similar way to Amity and had even similar lines as her said to Gus and still have yet to see the fandom to go as cooky over him. Another character introduced negatively at first was Darius and he still got nowhere near as much hype as Hunter and Amity. Yes these people want characters to change and grow out of their toxic traits but they also absolutely thrive off of it coming specifically from white characters.

[@linachan4912]

I disagree. The reason people like Amity, is the same reason people obsessed over Zuko (who isn’t white) and Catra (who isn’t white). People tend to prefer “edgy villains who become heroes” than they do heroes, because most humans aren’t squeaky clean with perfect moral compasses. Sure, there’s bound to be a few idiots who favour white characters for nothing more than their skin tone, but we shouldn’t act like that’s the only explanation, because it isn’t.

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

@@linachan4912 I agree but I think we’re talking about how it specifically was a problem within the Owl House fandom and not she ra’s and TLAB. I was in both of those and those fandoms had other problems that didn’t have much to do w/race. I mean I think other people in the comment section were talking about how it is in other fandoms but i’m not sure OP of this comment was. Unless i’m reading wrong, i took it as “kids within the owl house fandom” rather than in general.

[@jamieadams2589]

@@The1andonlysharpshooter darius wasn't introduced negatively. He was a villain but not villianous

[@glyphnoceda]

Thank you! Luz is honestly my favorite character, she's genuinely so relatable. While I love Amity and Hunter, the fandom treats them as if _they_ are main characters, not Luz. Hell, I see so many say that Luz is "cringey," but I guarantee, if Hunter, for example, would do the same thing, the fandom would _love_ it. For example, the classroom scene in Season Three. SEASON THREE EPISODE ONE SPOILERS ----- Luz speaks out in class after finishing a book in her English class. She projects onto the main character of said book, saying it would be better if he never existed. It's clear she's also talking about herself, though. When Thanks to Them aired, SO many laughed after. She was arguably suicidal, yet the fandom treated her like trash, instead focusing on Hunter quite a lot. If anyone were to see the amount of Hunter edits to Luz edits, they would assume he was the protagonist. ----- Don't even get me started on how much Hunter was favored over Gus in Gus' OWN episode, Labyrinth Runners. While Hunter played a key role, Gus was the main focus. The fandom even at one point praised _BELOS_ more than Luz. A literal fucking abuser. Let that sink in, for a moment.

[@Armaggedon185]

The problem's so apparent that I knew exactly what you were talking about having watched none of these besides Star Wars. I suspect part of the blame lies with the "turn your brain off and enjoy" attitude a lot of folks try to perpetuate. This is exactly what happens when you don't critically examine your own tastes.