Andrew Sullivan: How the rebels became the censors | The Brendan O'Neill Show

Andrew Sullivan, author of ‘Out on a Limb’, talks to Brendan O’Neill about how millennials became crippled by wokeness, why the oppressed need free speech, and how the trans movement compels us to lie.
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[@dirkvanschalkwyk1919]

Claiming victimhood has become /is empowering. The tolerance of Liberal society (and over protective parenting) have allowed this to flourish and tip the power balance, rapidly establishing a purple haired controlled hierarchy.

[@bh_486]

Students hyperventilating when they hear 'triggering' words - 'these feelings are genuine'. They are 'genuine', in the same way that having an open wound will create 'over sensitivity' and 'over protectiveness' in the area of the wound. The best treatment is to cover the wound (physically) because this is how the natural body fixes itself. If there is a psychological 'wound', not being able to examine it, is, the psychological equivalent of over sensitivity. This has to be acknowledged. There should be no benefits to 'over sensitivity', but it is being confused with 'actual sensitivity'. Actual sensitivity is what is needed to fix over sensitivity. Actual sensitivity is tough. Over sensitivity is disabling.

[@dirkvanschalkwyk1919]

This is why exams at school are bad too, right? No wonder the kids are weak and pathetic and the helicopter parenting generation managers immediately switch to mollycoddling mode when the poor souls go into shock mode.

[@mark4asp]

The physical reactions they get: nervousness, hyperventilating : those are real experiences they're having. I genuinely do not think they are faking it.

[@bh_486]

@@mark4asp The 'imagination' or more correctly fantasy, can create similar responses to those of an actual encounter (sex fantasy for example or violence fantasy). It is a wise person therefore who does not indulge in fantasy, because it is dangerous. But many people actually enjoy Indulging in fantasy. The bodily response - (hyperventilating or erect penis), is real, but is the trigger real?

[@Philiptanzer]

"All rebels are closet aristocrats." Leto II, the God Emperor.

[@sephus99]

Mental toughness is what's lacking as much as resilience. Resilience is the ability to get through something that upsets you but the situation is more that they are getting upset about things that shouldn't really upset them.

[@PibrochPonder]

Slaves dream not of freedom, but of becoming masters - Hegel

[@bazotter]

Excellent episode. As an old gay man who remembers the awful past and how genuinely good life for gay men is now, it's great to hear someone else who just thinks and expresses the same thoughts and reactions at last because I fought for gay rights in the backdrop of AIDS and we got equality in the end...It's ironic. When i was young, 'coming out' to someone came with potentially serious consequences. .Today 'coming out' with views that challenge the far left wing trans identity ideology/orthodoxy comes with the same threat of attack. WTF...Everyone skirts around one issue and that's what's between your legs...because it actually matters. The trans male activist youtuber jammidodger describes himself as heterosexual Do i look gay to you? he says in one video ...No mate, your'e straight now so why the fuck do hang around with us?

[@ms-jl6dl]

I'm not gay but those people look to me like they want to be "anything but gay". That's their "rebellion",and they're annoying AF. Only gays can save us from these psychos,everybody else is scared shitless. Go gays. You did it once already.

[@zootsoot2006]

Ironic thing is that all the arguments conservatives said back in the day, that this liberalisation of values will lead to the undoing of society and a kind of fascism in the the opposite direction, were right.

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

Superb, essential interview. Particularly the analysis of the new student mind.

[@8223Mike]

One of the most powerful interviews you’ve done on this channel. Thanks very much.

[@NothingQuiteAsFly]

Fantastic discussion. Thanks.

[@sandraashton868]

This was bloody brilliant stuff Brendan can we have Andrew Sullivan back again sometime soon much appreciation sent from Melbourne Australia

[@neorich59]

There's so much common sense being spoken here, it's hard to know where to start! As a gay man, I spent decades arguing for changes that I never thought I'd see in my lifetime, but not in a way as to make the straight world think I was after "special privileges!" Equality before the law means, what it says on the tin. For me, the same goes for gender, racial and trans equality. We seem to be edging nearer and nearer to a world where reality doesn't seem to matter to some people and they insist that we should think the same. Some people on the Right (with their own agenda) are blaming this on the "Woke Left," but I am very much on the Left and don't identify with it. If we don't have (if we're allowed to) a grown up conversation about this, we'll end up in an Orwellian nightmare of our own making. Dr Robert Winston insisted upon calling a spade a spade (am I allowed to say that? 😉) on Question Time the other night where he emphatically claimed that people's biological gender is fixed. What people decide to do with that, later in life is the exercising of their freedom of choice, which I fully defend. But, reality is reality. kzbin.info/www/bejne/epjTaoCGgap0p6M And, don't get me started on the rewriting of history and cultural appropriation. I'm totally in favour of reflecting the diversity in most Western Societies in the Arts, etc. But, let's not pretend, as is happening frequently, in T.V. films etc. that all was rosy, even as recently as the 60s, and certainly not back in the 18th Century, for black and ethnic minorities, women and LGBT. Yes, I am referring to "Bridgerton!" 😉😉 As for "cultural appropriation," black and white people have been cross referencing and borrowing from each other, so far as music goes as far back (and probably further) since the beginnings of Jazz. And, anyone who thinks Classical Music is all about white privilege, hasn't listened to any of the amazing black Classical Musicians that exist, or heard an orchestra made up entirely of Venezuelans, or Chinese people.

[@DarrylWhiteguitar]

On the range of topics discussed here, I've heard no single commentator more precise in analysis and eloquent in expression than Andrew Sullivan. Thank you, Brendan.

[@Pacabelle]

Andrew's phrase, "ideological purification" really sums up well on what's happening in both American and British academic and cultural institutions. The latter tended to advocate for dumbing down approach a few years ago but now, all of a sudden, so many academic jargons and concepts such as "decolonisation" and "decolonial theories" began to appear on their labels and websites, which are probably beyond anyone with or without higher education. Although the students are on the front line of noisy woke brigade, we must remember that it is the grown-up people in the senior positions who are implementing the schemes and supporting the woke agenda.

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

I hope it will not be too long before it is accepted by all that mutilating children who can not consent is monstrous. It is only sad to think that the backlash earned by a small number of Trans Taliban will cause problems for them all. I want to see Doctors struck off. First do no harm. I want to see them charged for Grievous Bodily Harm. I want the parents and or councilors promoting this mutilation to be charged with Conspiracy to Commit Grievous Bodily Harm.

[@ReasonableForseeability]

Andrew structures his talk, and expounds, so well! And so calmly (as opposed to having a hissy fit).

[@susantempleton5882]

Excellent and moving

[@dirkvanschalkwyk1919]

Spot on for referring to the Deconstruction concept of applied Post Modernism.

[@muskepticsometimes9133]

Wow this interview amazing !! Should req'd reading. Deserves 1000x more virws

[@geejaybee]

Much better interview than I expected having read many of his columns and seen his appearances on Bill Maher etc. Makes a pleasing change from his old full time job of shitting on Donald Trump.

[@loadsbutty]

Such an eloquent speaker Could listen to Andrew all day

[@sifridbassoon]

glad to hear the old Andrew again. Powerful. Moving. Haven't heard much from him in the last few years (my own fault). My standard answer to self-approving young activists is that I've been out longer than they've been alive so why should I waste my time listening to anything they have to say, and not to come back until they've been out and lived life a little.

[@randygault4564]

Andrew, please have a "Calmversation" with Benjamin Boyce.

[@ReasonableForseeability]

Nice play on words!

[@Clem62]

In total agreement except I think Mr. Sullivan should listen more to the concerns of women around men in women's only spaces like toilets and change rooms. The danger to women should be obvious. Using opposite-sex pronouns and giving up the definition of man and woman eg. to say" trans women "is also misogynistic and incorrect.

[@ReasonableForseeability]

I read what you wrote thrice and I don't understand, especially the last sentence. Rephrase? You're especially unclear about usage of term "trans women". Are you saying that the term is (a) misogynistic and (b) incorrect? I'm not misogynistic about real women nor about trans women. But what is a correct term? Fake women? Women with a Y-chromosome? Men self-identifying as a woman? How about WINO [q.v. RINO]?

[@randygault4564]

It's only obvious to the misandrist. To the extent rooms are unsafe, fix the rooms.

[@beecat9951]

@@ReasonableForseeability they're not women therefore the correct word is man.

[@beecat9951]

@@randygault4564 rooms are not the problem. Predatory men are. If you think women wanting safety and privacy is man hating then you're part of the problem too.

[@MarkMackenzievortism]

@@beecat9951 If you're a feminist, you are part of the problem.

[@richardnieuwhof2028]

A passionate appeal to commonsense and logic.

[@nascar0509]

Most of these students likely would never has passed the entrance exams not long ago so low the bar of standards has been lowered in a desperate attempt to inflate grades and pass rates.

[@aaronkelly6240]

Brendan for bear week 2022

[@ReasonableForseeability]

Provincetown ?

[@joanr3189]

Thank you for this coherent, illuminating analysis. Emotional cripples need a turn at a real coal face.

[@boudicca9807]

I tend to agree about women's 'restrooms'. What goes on in the cubicles is nobody's business. 'Don't ask, don't tell' . But, once trans activists started to push the issue biological women felt they had to hold the line. Our attitudes hardened, understandably. In general a boundary had to be drawn in indelible ink between biological women and transwomen because that boundary was being rubbed out. The integrity of women's loos as women's space is part of that boundary. As men self-identifying as women start to exercise their 'right' to use women's restrooms, it's only a matter of time before there's trouble. Already reports are coming out of the US of an alleged assault on a girl by a boy claiming to be a girl in a restroom. It's sad how this activism is harming genuine transwomen who have quietly and discreetly used women's loos for decades.

[@boudicca9807]

@madderthanhatters I think that was what I was saying and you might have over-reacted to the first two sentences.

[@lifeintheolddog5768]

Seems that the answer is to only recruit into the media from the lower middle and working class?

[@maryrose4712]

Love Andrew, smart, sharp and always interesting.

[@TessaTickle]

@37:00 "I don't even know that there's been an issue with gender-neutral bathrooms" .... mate ... you've been living under a rock.

[@shaulkramer5293]

Fascinating

[@maryrose4712]

Andrew is the old school that Dave Chappelle referred to.

[@marionreynolds7080]

Surely the apt description of the temper tantrum in young staffers has been created by ‘The dangerous rise of therapeutic education’ in schools - Author Dennis Hayes. Brendon please interview Prof Hayes.

[@trollop_7]

Here we go. About time too.

[@isabellap5632]

Great content. And, I have to point out, that Andrew’s accent became more and more English as the discussion went on!

[@nascar0509]

If they have been coddled and infantilised from birth and made to feel the centre of the known universe is there any wonder they have become a generational Frankenstein's monster.

[@micksc1]

What percentage of people are not super straight or super gay? Who do these people date?

[@maryrose4712]

maybe they're bi??

[@vesterwolfe2420]

cancel care in the community and lock up these young lunatics

[@ReasonableForseeability]

Then you'd be worse than they are.

[@vesterwolfe2420]

@@ReasonableForseeability that's possibly true, what solution would you suggest.

[@TheKiddy3]

Really, really good!

[@globalroamer1900]

Let’s go Brandon

[@natashalion8028]

Glass doors on the toilet ?!

[@leevankleef]

The new generation have no stress wood development.

[@richalderson6069]

So Andrew never ever misgenders anyone and doesn't think that there are any real issues regarding trans people using restrooms? Well, that just shows complete lack of perception for how pronouns are contributing to the entitlement and privilege of men in women's sports and shelters and prisons, as well as the need to have power over other people's thoughts and perception of reality.

[@philipryan25]

The Church of Feminism

[@jamescaley9942]

Church of the Poisoned Mind.

[@philipryan25]

@@jamescaley9942 Classist, Sexist and the Soft Bigotry of low Expectations in other words Suffragette Fascists.

[@beecat9951]

@@philipryan25 word salad

[@philipryan25]

@@beecat9951 Being opposed to Feminists means l believe in freedom, small government and personal agency, and not a Karl Marx's style Gulag.

[@missrachael1709]

@@philipryan25 Hilarious. I'm guessing you are a bloke Philip and that opposing feminism makes you feel better about yourself. Feminism is about equality, nothing more or less. Everyone should be a feminist, it's the just, kind & proper stance to take. It's a no brainer imho.

[@stevecurnow434]

Wat if world war 3 started next week who could we rely on to fight ! Not the modern student

[@natashalion8028]

The New Soviet Trans-Golem

[@nonirose3640]

wrong about wash rooms. women used to be somewhat ok with transexuals but there are too many bad actors for women to ever go back to that.

[@helenphelan4433]

You dont see the problem with rest rooms? That is a sly, political and unhelpful comment. No problem to you as there is always a men's room that is unaffected

[@mark4asp]

At one stage, Andrew blames Postmodernism. It's not. The originators of pomo whouldn't be able recognize these spoit kids as their progeny. Seems to me some daft people got a cauldren, mixed in some postmodernism, a bit of Frankfurt School (I not going to call it critical theory because it's uncritical cubed), some gender theory, some ideas from racism, a bit of Marxism, loads of intersectionality and intersexualiy, tonnes of vivtimhood batshit. Mixed up a concoction which is pure poison to the mind. Designed to paralyse their opponents; but which has, instead, zombiefied the perps.

[@huntera123]

So many assumptions about the goodcwill of those imposing our cultural revolution. About the source of the problem. About Trump.

[@TheCrusaderRabbits]

He lost his English accent.

[@mrlegkick91]

Haha is he English? I couldn't work it out

[@cora4934]

There seems to be an unfamiliarity with respect for the humanity of others somewhere in this.

[@dgh5760]

Go to school in Russia if you want a russian focus on education. Go to Africa is you want an african focus on education. Go to Indis if you want an indian focus on education. Stop complaining that you don't like what is being taught in North American Universities. If you don't like the focus don't go to school here. There are other options for schools across the world and I'm sure you will find one that suits your non-European needs. Parents of the "sensitive" kids...do them a favor and toughen them up. It is all just so absolutely ridiculous, disrespectful and entitled. It is not all about you believe it or not. When I was a kid we were told that the world doesn't revolve around us. That is a lesson not taught by the parents of the "woke" generation.

[@disappointedenglishman98]

Unfortunately, this video is full of crap about "gay marriage" and Andrew Sullivan's "husband". For the umpteenth time, two men cannot procreate. A relationship between two men cannot be a real marriage, and Sullivan cannot have a husband. At best, this is just a friendship with grinding involved, but it does not have the social significance of marriage.

[@ms-jl6dl]

So? What's your point? And why? We're talking about young psychos dominating public life. And you're triggered by the use of term "marriage"? How is that helpfull for anything?

[@danm2144]

it doesn't effect you in any way.

[@disappointedenglishman98]

@@danm2144 It's a direct assault on social norms. There is already a large drop in the white birth rate at a time when white British births are only 58% of live births in England and Wales. Two men don't need to be declared "married". it doesn't affect them either way - they do this purely to tear down the fabric of society.