Angel is HEARTBREAKING in this episode! // Hazbin Hotel S1x4 REACTION!

[@SeanTanktop]

Is Charlie like, really powerful?! Could she break a contract or f*ck up Val if she wanted to? Let us know in the comments! This show is starting to get REALLY INTERESTING with the one two punch of Episode 4 and 5! Hit up Patreon.com/SeanTanktop for EARLY & UNCUT reactions RIGHT NOW to The Pilot and S1x5 for only $5l!!

[@Marqui91]

Uhm... I guess you'll have to WAFO 🎉

[@euyeru]

100% she beats val, i'm not going into power scaling but charlie's personality leads viewers/characters into thinking she's weaker than she actually is.

[@dansmart3182]

The question isn't if pushed if she would win. The fallout would be the question. Think of Lucifer as king of hell and the overlords as the great houses. It would essentially be like if Cersei personally beheaded Ned. Instant civil war.

[@Dillsfawn]

I personally suspect that Charlie is largely *unaware* of whatever strength she might possess or lacks enough *control* of it for her to be confident in it's use. The only times it ever seems to come out is when she is emotionally overwhelmed.

[@ethanm2562]

Charlie is the 2nd or 3rd strongest character in Hell due to her like super angel bloodline from Lucifer, and I imagine she was about to fuck him up VERY badly if Angel didn't jump in and stop him. Even without the angel bloodline specifically, basically any noble hellborn with any degree of power could crush any of the V's.

[@jasonmarbach]

Just jumping in again to say I’m 40 and had never heard of this show, the world, the lore, backstories, or any of that stuff. Knew absolutely nothing about any of it, watched blind, and while it took me a while to really get into it and “get” what they were doing, it started hitting like a freight train in this ep and on into the rest of this season. Not giving as much of the lore or backstory was an intentional choice because they want us, the viewers (especially new viewers) to be lost on some of these aspects and just take the ride the way the characters are. Like, each character knows their own backstory, but they largely don’t know each other’s backstory or motivations, and that fumbling around in the dark trying to figure it out is part of the journey for them, and for us. And we are *supposed* to bring our own preconceived notions (about heaven and hell and what that means, what morality is, all that) with us so that the show can use them against us. It begins to become clear in this ep, but by the end of ep 6 I think y’all will probably start to understand that most of the things that are bothering y’all are either misunderstandings on y’all’s part (for example, your interpretation in the beginning of this ep that Charlie and Vaggie, a gay couple, have a problem with gay sex, when the truth for them is that they’re just not into sexual violence - consensual or otherwise - or voyeurism, and they feel uncomfortable with this activity watching Angel…just a different boundary level for them than Angel has, which is okay too just like Angel’s boundaries are okay) or intentional obfuscations from the show intended to weaponize the biases we *all* come into this show with. Not to, like, fellate the show too hard…I don’t have it personally on a tier with shows like Arcane or Blue Eye Samurai…but it’s definitely still a really great show with a lot to say that really matters and, with as much as I know about y’all’s worldviews from years of watching, y’all will probably appreciate at the end. It’s not perfect, but it’s really good and layered, and I’m glad we’ve finally gotten to the eps where it starts to really kick into that next storytelling gear.

[@musicisum0405]

all of this

[@euyeru]

Angel has a magical contract with Valentino so whilst the rules haven't been established, there is a chance breaking it/interfering with it might cause serious repercussions. Also, whilst Charlie may be the princess of hell, the only way to really convince the majority of people in hell to follow any law/rule she implements is fear (minus people who actually respect her) and that's not really her thing. Not to mention she can't really police all of hell and if Angel asked, she would, ofc, do whatever she could to help his situation but she probably doesn't want to cross boundaries again like in this episode.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

It is hinted that if a sinner gives their soul freely to an overlord, lucifer and Charlie can’t interfere because of the free will aspect. if a sinner chooses to sign over their soul, the contract is binding.

[@GusTaJooJ_OFC]

"magic contract" sounds kinda weird. It's literally a blood contract for his soul, in the old demon stile

[@Techno963]

'They're fucking singing?!' One of the best jokes in the show

[@KBRoller]

Too bad Dustin wasn't here for that; he'd have appreciated it 😂

[@Zarola]

I think it should be emphasized that Charlie is VERY uncomfortable with her position. She is hellborn royalty that does not fit in. She's not like the overlords that gain power through contracts, violence, or fear. She has a sunny disposition in a f'-ed up world and is extremely sheltered. Secondly, with the sex thing, Charlie and Vaggie are just uncomfortable with exploratory sex outside of their lesbian relationship. When they went to the BDSM place for the trust exercise, only those two were not into it. Vaggie was the only one who outright spoke negatively about it.

[@gamerbear84]

No, they clearly shouldn't be allowed to have preferences or be uncomfortable with anything, in fact they should be mocked for it, didn't you listen? /s

[@rufusmay9615]

Another aspect I think is that Vaggie pushes back harder than she would otherwise because Charlie can't enforce her own boundaries so Vaggie has to do it for her. Which is why she's shown covering Charlie's eyes not her own for example.

[@LucasF25]

Also c'mon guys, they're not grossed out because Angel is having Gay sex, Charlie and Vaggie are literally girlfriends. They're grossed out because he made them watch it 😐😐😐

[@brandonwong6154]

It really had me scratching my head why someone wouldn't put together why 2 lesbians would feel uncomfortable watching males having explict cock-swinging sex.

[@icestorm199]

Not to mention you might find it a little “gross” to watch your FRIEND getting railed or have their ass eaten out haha

[@zoeylace4778]

They somehow think that HH is hateful towards everything. Like it's positive to sex work and not a homophobic show but they seem to think it's against those things for some reason. She would defend Angel no matter what he does. Like of course they're uncomfortable with watching a porno???

[@Xionaga]

I feel the problem that with consent that is angel is forced into consent from the contract. so, when you are coerced into consent is it even consent at all.

[@jasonmarbach]

25:20 Sean: “I don’t think this show is thinking about that shit at all.” Dead wrong, my guy. All love from me, but that’s just flat out wrong, even based on the parts of the show you’d seen by the time you said it.

[@troikas3353]

New viewer here, knew nothing about Hazbin before watching Episode 1 on amazon, hadn't even seen the pilot. I was able to follow everything perfectly fine with what was explained just within these episodes.

[@yogurt2831]

I can see why you guys would think that this show isn’t very sex/kink positive (hell there are some Christian’s who watched praising it for the same thing). There are definitely some more prudish characters like Vaggie but I take it more as individual characters traits rather than a message the show is trying to push. The main reason I think most of us know that’s not what is trying to be said is because majority of fans have already watched the sister show Helluva boss which is very sex/kink positive showing multiple of the main characters engaging in it without it being a negative thing, plus showing sex workers (ie Verosika and the succubitches) who are just doing their thing without it being a traumatic /abusive experience like Angel. HB can be more in your face about that stuff because it’s just on KZbin so Viv can do whatever she wants without having to deal with Amazon/A24. The merch being sold which is used to support the indie project is very.. well.. horny to put it lightly (especially the Valentine’s Day merch, you can get a puzzle of one of the couples in the show participating in BDSM) Anyways, I know I’ve been rambling for a bit, I guess my point is that if this was any other show you’d probably be correct with your fears, but this is essential a show that’s based on a girls tumblr oc’s where all these characters are some flavour of queer (minus Nifty, she’s the token straight), so you don’t have to really worry about such negative intentions in this show.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Also Vaggie and Charlie are just not hyper sexual Charlie is so naive and pure that hardcore sex etc is too much for her.

[@zoeylace4778]

I don't get it. The show is clearly and openly sex positive. Some characters are just awkward around it. It's literally not that big a problem

[@Stethacanthus]

I am a heterosexual man and if my friend showed me a pornography he made with a woman, I'd be disturbed. I wouldn't consider it any more/less apropriate if he made it with another man. Someone's sexual orientation doesn't obligate friends/allies to be comfortable with exposure to sexual content or interactions.

[@SeanTanktop]

In hell?

[@Stethacanthus]

@@SeanTanktop why should that matter? Depending on what criteria we use for salvation, many sinners could be normal people who just picked the wrong religion or people who have a sinful nature that isn't sexual. In this show's setting, Alastor is canonically asexual and Husk is a gambler for example, and both reject Angel's advances. Hell-spawn like Charlie or most of the Helluva Boss cast were born in Hell and they have personal hangups about a lot of things. It is not okay to show someone sexual content without their consent. The sexuality of the participants is irrelevant.

[@sandracarnegie2871]

@@Stethacanthus 💯

[@SeanTanktop]

Right, but they show never addresses any of that lol

[@Stethacanthus]

@@SeanTanktop all of this is covered in the show, much of it in the episode you just reacted to (other parts are made more explicitly stated later and I don't want to spoil it). I referred to Charlie as a Hell-spawn for example because that's what Lute calls her in episode 1 when Lute explains why the angels aren't allowed to kill her. In episode 2, Sir Pentious is disgusted by Angel and in episode 3, Vaggie is disgusted by BDSM and the whole cast doesn't want catch Niffty after she admits to cruelty to bugs. The setting shows characters having and enforcing personal boundaries as early as the pilot. Assuming that the setting of Hell nullifies the default expectation that characters have differing boundaries and social expectations isn't justified at all. It looks like you're just doubling down to defend an invalid accusation of homophobia.

[@davidbodor1762]

I think self destruction is something the hotel is trying to fix with Angel, hence why they don't want him to continue doing drugs. As for why Charlie doesn't just go around kicking all the overlords ass, she could, but the overlords hold the souls of their victims hostage. Angel signed the contract, he's bound to Valentino, so if Val ever goes down, Angel does too. Besides, it's not really Charlie's style to kick anyone's ass, she's a sweetheart who hates violence. PS - The show is made by an LGBT cast, Charlie is not turning away bc it's gay sex, she's with Vaggie ffs, she's turning away bc it's voyeurism and she's not comfortable watching someone else have sex. Also it's a bit violent for her tastes I'm sure. As for Vaggie, her behavior will make much more sense in retrospect once you learn what her deal is.

[@qrat6843]

I think a big thing you’re not considering from your questions is that we can assume from the show that Charlie and the rest of them have NO idea how bad things are with Val, or that Angel doesn’t wanna do those things. Angel is constantly putting up a mask that he’s fine and does it because he loves it. He doesn’t talk about Valentino’s outbursts, and he also very purposefully steps away from the group and talks in a quiet voice when Val calls him. Charlie didn’t see Val hitting him, only saw him pulling Angel by the hand and pushing him to the bed. Yeah, she can assume more happened, but she still doesn’t know the full extent of the abuse. On top of all that, she was caught off guard by the fact that Angel defended him and was upset with her. I’m sure that if the gang knew how awful things were, there’d be a bit more urgency to get Angel out of that somehow (with the exception of Husk, who seems to have given up on trying to get out of a contract).

[@BrendelMank]

I think in the beginning it was the violence making her look away not the love making ❤

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

Nah, Vaggie is a prune. She judges anything sexual. Husk said that in this episode!

[@jasonmarbach]

Correct, in my opinion. That and the voyeurism, which not everyone is comfortable with, I think.

[@kahale]

Absolutely. Vaggie is literally gay too So they not only don't like watching the men go at it, it's their friend on the screen

[@justinehercthehuman]

If we're talking about the intro where Charlie didn't like the porn, I'd say that it's a lesbian thing disliking dicks and a gay thing disliking vags which I 100% relate with.

[@BrendelMank]

@@jasonmarbach acceptable opinion 💯💯

[@kimbapbekidding1522]

To be honest both times angel has just shoved these violent sex/porn things at them. The first time two of the workers there even touched Charlie without her consent and you shouldn’t do that. You could see she was uncomfortable. If it’s your thing that’s fine but Vaggie and Charlie obviously work under the umbrella of consent and no violence in their sexy situations. Angel has his own boundaries and ideas of how far he can go with sex but he can deal with violent porn watching it and doing it even if he may not want to. But Charlie and Vaggie also have boundaries and he never pays attention to them. For me Vaggie and Charlie aren’t horrified at the sex it’s just the violence ness of it. We also learn more about both of them later on and why these things are true. Charlie’s ideas of what they need to do to get out of hell is interesting sometimes but overall she just wants everyone to be happier and we don’t know if she could’ve ever done anything else but there are higher people than her so maybe this is all she can do. She’s not going to be scaring people into getting better she said it this episode that she hates being mean, she wants everyone to redeem themselves from whatever they’ve done wrong. It’s already helping angel because he finally has husk to talk to about all this stuff as well and I think he really needed a friend like that.

[@Excellor64]

The comment by Jasonmarbach7800 is basically all I think with the reaction. Especially about Vaggie and Charlie, people have boundaries, theirs is not Angel's videos. Before this reaction, i never even thought of them as not accepting, i personally always thought that these are just examples of different people, at different stages, with different experiences and boundaries.

[@jasonmarbach]

🫡

[@malifex9922]

"If I end up broken, I won't be his favorite toy anymore." That's such a dark line. It's like malicious compliance, but at the cost of yourself.

[@jasonmarbach]

I will say, in addition to my other comment, that I learned some things from other commenters when perusing reactions. Like I said, the decision to leave out a lot of the backstory for characters was very intentional on the show’s part, but they put some little tiny hints in there. For example, back in the YT pilot, there’s a scene where Angel and Charlie and Vaggie are riding in Charlie’s limo, and Angel is more focused on playing with the automatic windows…which are a novelty to him because they didn’t exist when he was alive in the 30s/40s. So they’re laying in little details and such like that for the lore heads (the “Snyder cut theater kids”) as little Easter eggs and such. See, it’s a very clear choice on their part, they want you to come in without knowing the deeper lore so you’re as lost as the characters largely are. Because nothing in life makes sense, no one knows what they’re doing, and no one really understands where everyone else is coming from, mostly because they’re not taking the time to. Kind of like how y’all aren’t considering what’s informing Charlie’s actual hangups, or Vaggie’s emotionally stunted judgement of anything and everything (which Husk even calls out directly in this episode). The show is using everyone’s biases (even your typically inclusive and protective biases) against you. It’s a choice.

[@MuhammadAdhaFajriJonison]

Well said, lots of show does this yet they cant get that in their head, it just seems like they take everything they see in this show at face value

[@ln9256]

​@user-nd8ez2xj1x That was made very apparent by Morgan saying, "They're seeing gay sex and saying ew? That's messed up." They're not trying to grasp even the most bare bones symbolism thrown at the viewers constantly. Normally I like this channel but their dedication to disrespecting the show makes it impossible to watch.

[@zoeylace4778]

​​@ln9256 exactly! So glad I'm not alone. I adored this channel but this lost all respect I had for them. Like I totally understand them not liking it and I really don't care but then they keep watching and disrespecting it. They should have just stopped.

[@Sandro_de_Vega]

In show defense. There is not even one information about why certain people are in hell. You can figure it out with for example people from canibal town. But part with "sex working being bad" is something that you tell yourself. And its not even that "he do this in hell so probably thats the reason". Bc what with Vox, Vee and Alastor? How do television, tiktok or radio can be sinful? They current situation in hell isnt exactly related to their sins. Sometimes yes. But more than often its not. Also... seriously you find that weird that a LESBIAN find TWO MEN FVCKING each other "disgusting"?

[@jacksmith-vs4ct]

I think as some others have commented it might be more about the violence for charlie as she doesn't really seem to care much in the studio lol other than being embarrassed.

[@MuhammadAdhaFajriJonison]

exactly lol, the show never once said that sex was bad but for some reason they really fixated on that

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Angel was a mobster in life who overdosed, that is why he went to hell, he’s always been an addict though and in hell there is no end to vices or access to drugs

[@zoeylace4778]

Yes! For real. Like even if it was straight porn or even lesbian porn I think both of them given their characters would just be straight up uncomfortable with watching porn around others???

[@joshridinger3407]

reason #1 sinners might want to go to heaven even though it might be full of jerks like adam: to not get perma-killed during exterminations. this is extremely well established by the show

[@Smartz118]

"We shouldn't talk during songs." -Proceeds to talk during songs.

[@JPooger]

Pretty valid point about missing some context in the show. This is likely a combination of this whole thing being based of YEARS of vivzipops personal comic and fanfiction and the fact that the story had to be squeezed into a specific number of episodes. I feel like if they had like 12 episodes instead of 8 they could have hashed things out a bit better.

[@jacksmith-vs4ct]

at least we are getting a second season so happy to hear that.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

amaze forced them to do 8, they probably wanted a 12-13 episode season like netflix often does.

[@Dillsfawn]

I think Charlie and Vaggie's behavior regarding sex is just that they are prudes _in general_ not necessarily because of a specific kind of sexual expression. I think the only reason we are seeing the "sex worker bad" trope is specifically because of Angel's abusive relationship with Val. *Val* is a bad boss, a bad sex worker, and an abusive manager of sex workers, so *his* evil permeates his operation and influences everyone working for him. And because Charlie's only personal experience and connection with sex work is through Angel, we as the audience don't get to see a more positive viewing. But it does exist. You just have to watch Hellava Boss to see it. There are at least 2 positively portrayed sexual relationships in that show(one of which involving the literal Sin of Lust), and potentially more depending on how Blitzo x Stolas turns out. I can see why one might worry over the portrayal of sex work though. But it's only been 4 episodes, and IIRC the second season has already been green-lit.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

To be fair they’re not saying sex work is bad Charlie and Vaggie are just not hyper sexual, and very vanilla and Husk doesn't like Angel’s flirting because he knows it’s an act and fake, and he doesn’t want to be with someone whose not interested in him for him, and not just as an escape. Nifty is all for sexual stuff if she feels like it and Alastor is asexual

[@raven1436]

I'm sorry but would you be comfortable watching porn of somebody You know well in a room full of people Also, being the opposite of what you're attracted to, because vaggie's the only one that said gross and she's gay which means she likes women watching 2 men have Kinky sex. Would probably be gross for anyone I wouldn't want to watch It, hell I wouldn't want to watch normal porn around other people.

[@intouchdm]

I think the questions your asking are great. Just to encourage you that the show gives a lot of answers in further episodes.

[@musicisum0405]

I appreciate that y'all appreciated this episode more, and I do think you bring up some good criticisms... but no one said sex (kinky or not) was bad lmao I think at the beginning they were all a little more bothered by the violence of it and the fact that it was their FRIEND they were watching (shown to them without their permission). I understand where you're coming from (for real, some things DEFINITELY should have been made more clear in the show, worldbuilding-wise) but I don't think something has to be explicitly shown to prevent you from assuming the opposite. The show intentionally hasn't given us everyone's backstories yet, but it's also not telling you to assume that Angel's sin was porn or Husk's sin was drinking. Maybe leading you to make those assumptions and then challenging them is actually intentional on the show's part, but I couldn't say. Not to continue to rag on you guys, I liked this reaction and I am not trying to white knight for every critiqueable moment of this show, lord knows it (like anything else) has its flaws, but there's a few places I think you've got blinders on still. Mainly assuming what the show is trying to say just because it doesn't explicitly say something different.

[@bakuhakudraws5603]

Basically none of the Sinners (except Pentious, thus far) actually WANTS to get redeemed. Charlie wants them to get redeemed because she believes it will stop the exterminations if Hell doesn't get overpopulated (The angels, if you haven't noticed, are inconsistent about saying whether it's an overpopulation issue or if they're worried about a rebellion. They're absolutely lying to Hell in some capacity), and she just doesn't want her people to get genocided anymore. Most of the Sinners seem content to deal with their situation in hell on their own and aren't really looking to be better. They don't really go into detail on exactly how/why Hell is bad, and I think that might be the point they're building towards based on how the plot goes from here. It is established in the sister series, Helluva Boss, that the hellborn demons are MEANT to be torturing the human souls (the little imp standing on the guy's shoulder in the first episode saying 'Got a ton of barbed wire to shove in his hole' is a reference to that) like you would typically imagine demons in hell, but it seems like that really isn't the case. The human souls have all been contained within the ring of Pride and aren't allowed to go to the other sections of Hell (the other 6 deadly sins), and have sort of just... built a functioning society there. It's rough, there's a big 'dog eat dog' darwinian energy to it because there's no moral authority to keep people from just being cruel, manipulative, or violent in order to seize power, but how Hell got to this point and why they're able to have a functioning society, even a miserable/violent/anarchic one like this, is part of the mystery. Finding out more about this kind of stuff piecemeal over the course of the series was a big part of what had me so hooked on it.

[@dodiswatchbobobo]

I think everyone WANTS to be redeemed, they just see themselves as irredeemable. They’re in Hell, they’ve been written off, there’s no point in trying to change because in their eyes there’s nothing left to change TO.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Technically overpopulation is to stop a rebellion they say that the exterminations began once hell grew way too big and outnumbered heaven, so to keep them from ever being able to rebel against heaven the exterminators were sent down to keep numbers low.

[@raven1436]

I think the sinners outrank imps and hell hounds

[@reflect5161]

Also you guys have got to take the time to understand what's actually happening on the screen, charlie and vaggie aren't saying ew to gay sex. They're just not used to the vulgar things that were happening during the sex, vaggie and charlie are literally in a relationship together haha they don't have a problem with it being two men. Also what people are doing in hell now doesn't mean that's what they went to hell for, you'd never know it but angel dust was in a mob or something like that when he was alive.

[@nunuonroad9969]

Most people I’ve met have no problem with two men being gay, but not everyone wants to see explicit gay sex acts right in front of them. I don’t understand why the LBtq has such a problem understanding that concept. I don’t expect gay people to look at hetero porn and be like “nice”

[@josemachado6296]

Not to mention it's one of their closest friends, I'm sure we all don't want to see our friends dangle😂

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

@@josemachado6296 Niffty sure does!

[@jacksmith-vs4ct]

like in the first episode where charlie looks in the window she be peeping and didn't see to care lol

[@reflect5161]

@@jacksmith-vs4ct she did care 😅idk about you but the look on her face didn't seem like she didn't care

[@dodiswatchbobobo]

I mean, apparently invincible angels come down once a year and kill everyone they can find. Wouldn’t you want to live in Heaven just to stop having to deal with that?

[@SeanTanktop]

Right, but wouldn't Adam being a complete asshole sorta would make me suspicious that Heaven would be any better? It should have been Emily or someone trustworthy talking to her at first. Right from the get-go it's clear that Heaven is full of shit.

[@dodiswatchbobobo]

@@SeanTanktop Apparently not

[@sarafontanini7051]

It hoenstly doesn't matter whetehr or not Valentino COULD kill Charlie, like all abusers he's made Angel beleive that he CAN and that NOONE can stop him, he has instilled into angel the idea that Val is invincible and the best anyone else cna do is stay away. As fo charlie shutting down the studio: its hard to say. Noone in hell respects her position as Lucifer's daughter, and the overlords are pretty much equals in terms of political power, and charlie's too nice at this point to even think about actually confronting val, especially not without angels' permission. and her dad doesn't care enough to want to do anything either. Charlie also lacks knowledge to truly know what to do. Rememebr, this is a girl with so little life exprience outside what she knows in hell she thinks the best way to get redemptions is through shit like heer silly improv play thing in episode 2. She has no idea what to even DO in the first place, unfortunately.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

The royal family has been essentially awol from the power structure Lilith is MIA, and Lucifer allowed the overlords to take over in the first place cause he can’t be bothered to deal with the sinners whom he hates so no one really views the royals as an authority, only something to tolerate. the overlords also not only control millions of souls, but also run most of the technology and structures that keep hell working, Vox and the Vees pretty much are the main source of tech and social media for the entire realm for instance So it’s not as if Charlie can just start pushing them around and they're not being serious consequences.

[@Mr.E1]

Some people do think differently than you guys do too. Just because you were a consentual s-worker, doesnt mean they all are. Did i hear you compare human trafficking, to a workplace violation? Lol.

[@dxproductions7352]

You are totally correct about the foundational info. It is made for fans of the world so it can be a little difficult for a new viewer to get into. I think it holds up without that being necessary but maybe it's impossible for me to look at it objectively.

[@kanzenatsume]

I understand Morgan and Sean's concerns cos they don't know the context that old fans have. I hope the show provides more context and fleshing out in the 2nd season also it always gets me when Angel asks Val not to hurt Charlie, cos to him, she's a friend, not the 3rd most powerful being in hell

[@AD-ob6tf]

It’s interesting, y’all seem to have the same misunderstanding as Charlie in believing in this universe a more Christian way is considered “good”. The angels say their way is the right way. Just because they said that’s true doesn’t mean it is. Charlie’s only trying to get people out cuz the angels keep killing everyone.

[@SnowyWolborg]

Whether Valentino can hurt Charlie or not isn't the point. It is that Angel has been on the receiving end of so much abuse from Valentino that he doesn't want to see the same thing happen to somebody that he cares about. And even though he won't say so out loud, he does consider Charlie to be a friend. Also, we have never seen a contract be broken in the series, so, there is no way to say how one can or cannot be dissolved, aside from perhaps the holder releasing their subject from service.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

I heard someone say that because sinners willfully of their own free will sign their souls to overlords that lucifer and Charlie can’t do anything, no can any other powerful being because the free will of the contract makes it binding Alastor for example needed Husk to willfully agree to their deal despite Husk being an overload as well which means to me that free will is something that no being can interfere with, only manipulate

[@XHUERO3]

21:48 you missed the whole point, angle was not enjoying haveing sex he was being Gr@pe ( legally he sign a Contract he has to , its mostly about the abusive practice of the porn industry) and sex trafficking... it has nothing to do about gay sex being bad

[@lincolnb2244]

Charlie knows that it’s abusive. Everyone knows. There’s nothing you can do about it though. That’s why it’s hell. Evil always prevails in hell. It only not hell for the ppl at the top aka The Overlords. Charlie also can’t stop him with force bc it would be seen as the royalty overstepping their power and would cause all the overlords to rebel against Lucifer, which would lead to a full out war.

[@AkimboJV]

We all need a friend like Husk to tell it how it is

[@HorseandHattock]

I think a major part of this show's problem is that it was in limbo for so many years, and during that time the established fanbase was dripfed a whole bunch of background info and context and so it seems like when the show was picked up the creators assumed that a bunch of people watching already knew what they needed to know. Another aspect is the episode count, they needed more.

[@HorseandHattock]

Also I just gotta say that I would not be up for watching a friend's porn video, nothing to do with it being gay.

[@formideimos]

Not that it's made super clear in this show, just hinted at, but Angel was a mobster so it's very likely he killed someone at some point. The sister show, Helluva Boss, shows on two occasions that it doesn't matter why you kill someone, or even if you meant to - you take a life, you're out of Heaven.

[@SeanTanktop]

how is made clear at all? when is any of that stated or imbued in any form or fashion?

[@formideimos]

@@SeanTanktop No no I agree that it wasn't made clear, just hinted at. In fact looking back I would say it's hinted at so subtly that I'm not sure if someone who didn't know his background already would pick it up - I already knew so I'm biased towards noticing those nods lol

[@zoeylace4778]

It's not mentioned because we aren't supposed to know yet.

[@Fatalbeast22]

The reason charlie wants people to get redeemed up to heaven, is because 1, every year angel exprcists come down and kill a bunch of sinner demons, and from everything they know, thats it, the soul is just erased from existance, and if you arent someone at the very top, it can be pretty shitry down there, like sure theres a bunch of drugs, alcohol and sex which can be awesome, but then a sinner demon just a little stringer than you, can do some horrible shit to you, like slowly eat you alive onky for you to slowly and painfully reform in hell again, or r*pe you. Hell in the first song in this show, they say a guy is getting barbed wire forcibly shoved up his ass against his will. And wven just getting killed by another demon sucks, because when a sinner dies in hell outside of an angelic weapon, they reform in hell again and its apparently the most excruciating pain you can imagine. So yeah, hell is great.....if you have power or get lucky and dont run into stronger people

[@world0felegance]

I feel like all of the darker deeper meaning behind this episode were widely missed by the two of you. The joking was fun but it was often at inappropriate times when they are explaining how horrible Angel’s life is and that he’s being assaulted everyday against his will for 16 plus hours. At the end of the day they want to be better. And Charlie is trying her best but the only see her as a nepo baby

[@SeanTanktop]

Eh, we’re only as sloppy as the topic is treated in the source material. A lot tangentially illicited feelings are conjured but this show rarely ever addresses anything remotely complex about abusive relastionships here. Especially in a show supposedly about examining morality and self worth.

[@jonasquinn7977]

Guys it’s hell, I highly doubt Val is the exception when it comes to employers

[@Jellysfrickingstuff]

7:34 this is most people’s reactions to seeing videos of their friends having illicit ravenous violent sex while in a public social setting btw.

[@TheDailyHeretic]

The aversion to the sexual nature the hazbin occupants have against Angel i think is more likely attested to the constant sexual pressure on their boundries Angel brings coupled with sexual preference. I can definitely understand how it can be seen as them coming across as snobby or prudish. Hope you continue to enjoy the show regardless of the hate! I enjoy hearing your takes on the show.

[@nevetstrevel4711]

I think the problem is the Indy roots. Hell of a Boss is a spin off but went to series first. It was created to keep interest in the world of Hazbin Hotel. But since it was an indy production there would literally be one episode then 6 months then one episode then 9 months then one episode then 3 months etc. So you couldn't just wait and answer it 4 episodes later bc that could be a year and a half. So there were tons of Livestreams, doodles, merch, music videos etc in-between to fill in the blanks. Now that it's a weekly thing I think it was just a hard habit to shake plus only 8 episodes just weren't enough which is why they didn't redo the pilot etc they had to just assume you knew and move on

[@thomasyoung3342]

I want to put out a constructive criticism comment, and I don’t want it to come off as an attack because I genuinely like your content and y’all have already been having a tough time with Hazbin, but I really feel like it needs to be said. A consistent trend I’ve noticed in your commentary on this show is that you do pick up on inconsistencies that are definitely there, but are also purposeful and explored in depth later on in the show. And instead of giving the story the benefit of the doubt that it’s going to handle them properly, you just assume it’s the end all be all of what it has to say and start criticizing from there, then read everything as agreeing with that misunderstanding. Like with the discussion this episode of sex positivity and how non-conventional sex feels demonized. The show and everything else vivziepop makes is very sex positive. While certain characters do respond negatively to sexual situations, it’s always more about the character than the sex. For Angel specifically, the people that negatively react to his sexuality are Charlie (whose defining character trait is being naive and sheltered), Husk (whose aversion to Angel’s sex talk was explained clearly in this episode), Alastor (who is canonically asexual), and Vaggie (whose reaction will make more sense after later episodes). While there are elements of characters being critical of sexuality, none of them are endorsing that viewpoint in real life, but once you put on your hammer tinted glasses everything starts to look like a nail, or however the saying goes. There are a bunch of other themes y’all hit on that I’d like to say more about but unfortunately it’s hard to really talk about them without spoiling. So, I’d just leave it with this: the show isn’t perfect, but it is far more competent than yallre giving it credit for. A lot of your concerns are valid, but the show will address them with time.

[@zoeylace4778]

They just wanna find every possible thing to insult about it.

[@DarkComputerGirl]

You can KINDA tell that he was a mobster from the Addict music video.

[@drago2drago]

I think I get where the criticisms come from of the show. I also came in blind with no context to anything and thought the same but a lot of the unexplained aspects enticed me to look more into the deeper lore aspects that aren't necessary to the story and I don't think they are necessary for the show at this point. If we had double the run time, yes, go into everyone's backstory and elaborate on their powers and every intricacy of the world they're building but, until those aspects are relevant, it makes sense not to explain them. Again, still totally valid critiques but I think I view them differently

[@SeanTanktop]

if a show needs appendices it's messing up the bag

[@gamerbear84]

@@SeanTanktop "aren't necessary to the story and I don't think they are necessary for the show at this point" "until those aspects are relevant, it makes sense not to explain them" Do you even read the comments you reply to or are you too busy whining to bother?

[@justinehercthehuman]

As a gay guy, watching lesbian corn is disgustang! I believe it's the same feeling from gay women 😂

[@zoeylace4778]

Clearly that means you hate lesbians!!!! AND sex workers!!! (I'm being sarcastic of course lol)

[@elizabethmartinez4779]

I want to start with I am really enjoying your different opinions on the show and the questions you are asking. I never took the show as saying these people are in hell because they are gay, sex workers, ect. They just happen to be that or became that in hell. Some people are easy, Killjoy is racist and homophobic, Alastor is a serial killer, Camilla was a weapons dealer, Valentino is abusive. People like Angel are in a grey area the show hasn't truly explained.

[@XHUERO3]

7:34 you work at a hotel and your watching porn on your job. Thats ewww it has nothing to do with "gay sex" . Its not cool your boss is making you watch porn its Inappropriate. ( if your boss makes you do that get a lawyer then contact HR ) Now if this was a sex hotel this could be fine . But its not is almost like a rehab hotel center

[@treystaton282]

I don't think it's a terrible critique to say you need to pause and react to fast information in songs. The audience is begging for you to do that for shows like this.

[@intouchdm]

😂😂😂pissing my self at “I’m going to push back a little *sean inwardly screaming from posable Theater kid back lash* what? No..

[@BradTheProducer]

Poison is my favorite song from the series. It even charted on Billboard when it got released.

[@zachtheraven5007]

Also the sexual themes are not meant to be rude, they are not disgusted they are just not really use too it as vaggie and Charlie is sheltered but I want to say you will like this show i just hope you give it a chance because the fandom gets defensive when you say this show has problems because i am apart of it just look past the joke and the sexual tension.

[@jbradhicks]

About all of the stuff you're saying is missing? This was supposed to be a 12 episode season, and all Amazon would go for was 8.

[@SaiyanSerenityV]

As much as I love this world and this show, it does assume in some areas that you know what's up, largely I think it boils down to pacing and that is a larger issue than Hazbin - in the 90s to early 00s a season of a show was something like 20 episodes. The standard season length now is 8, and with the exception of The Last of Us I have no other example of a show that works well with this format. 8 episodes just isn't enough for a lot of shows to establish a full arc of story. I feel like Hazbin would have benefited GREATLY from even 2 more episodes. Anyway I'm glad y'all are continuing with this because despite that I really think this world is great!

[@chrisstephens6022]

Feels like you guys would really enjoy Helluva Boss, which is kind of the companion show and likely will address all of your sex-positive concerns. Because that "enjoying sex consensually, there's no good sex or bad sex" is pretty much the theme of the show. The creator has clarified absolutely that being gay is not considered a sin in the show. (E.g., it's not the sex sending people to hell.)

[@SilverScribe85]

I have this idea where someone takes out Valentino Princess Bride style. To those who guess what I'm going for, you get gold stars

[@ninjakirby777]

I’ll just say that what you guys said about vaggie in particular being very anti sex is for a reason/will become understandable later and leave it at that. The show is not a perfect 10/10 but it is deeper than it first seems.

[@DrowsyKodi]

Her entire sex work rant would be appeased. By watching an Ozzie episode or two it’s not her fault they haven’t seen it but to see them critique the universe when they haven’t seen most of it is jarring

[@penguin50279]

most powerful in hell to least Lucifer Charlie + Lilith 7 deadly sins other royalty overlords (Val, Alastor) sinners (angel dust) hell born imps + hellhounds

[@jacksmith-vs4ct]

aren't sinners on average supposed to be weaker than hellborn? since the hellborn are supposed to torment the sinners but they just don't care to do it anymore.

[@penguin50279]

@@jacksmith-vs4ct i don’t think so.

[@supattreewatanawong5025]

22:30 what are you talk about we just saw bdsm club that no abusive in Ep3

[@SeanTanktop]

Yeah, that was cast aside, called “disgusting” in favor of war games, lol

[@supattreewatanawong5025]

@@SeanTanktop that just Vaggie be protective and I talk aboult abusive relationship in bdsm what anything Vaggie said have to do witch it

[@SeanTanktop]

okay, but again, the show codifies her as correct after the gang does indeed bond over war and that the HELL WORTHY BDSM club was indeed not the way to go. Nothing to be learned. No redemptive qualities to be found inside something some could see as deviant and evil. Plus Vaggie is a f*ckin murdering hypocrite @@supattreewatanawong5025

[@supattreewatanawong5025]

@@SeanTanktop well Angel take them there just to mess witch them not try to success in the first place of couse there Nothing to be learned Vaggie was murder but what hypocrite

[@supattreewatanawong5025]

@@SeanTanktop well Angel take them there just to mess witch them not try to success in the first place of couse there Nothing to be learned Vaggie was murder but what Vaggie hypocrite about

[@Advent3546]

I do love Morgan's defensiveness of sex work and I see where she and Sean are coming from with how the show frames it. It's not saying sex work itself is bad but it's also not saying, or at least not making clear, that sex work is fine. You show sex work in hell and there is at least an assumption of "sex work = bad"

[@kurtacus3581]

Also there is a level of the morality of the heaven/hell system is not the morality of the creator of the show. The system is shown to be inherently flawed and vague and that's the point. Sex work in hell doesnt mean sex work is bad but just thats what is seen as "wrong" via the laws of the heaven/hell system in the show. Its unfortunate thats the takeaway some people get from the show. But i think these two will get it in the next few episodes

[@kimbapbekidding1522]

I think also in angels case he probably doesn’t even like it anymore and doesn’t want to be there because for him it’s not consensual anymore it’s forced from val. He has to go whenever val wants him. So that’s why they’re also painting it bad in that light. Angel also uses sex as a way to take control of his situations and try to get people on his side or to shut up. Which isn’t healthy. He needs therapy once he’s out of vals clutches for sure

[@lunavioleta001]

Then why don't they ever show Angel or any character having lots of consensual sex with multiple people? Why the heck do they keep saying that Angel needs "redemption"? I like this show, but it really has some bigoted and victim blaming ideas and morals.

[@jasonmarbach]

@@lunavioleta001They don’t show people having tons of consensual sex because the idea is that not just hedonists go to hell. No one in the show that we’ve met so far - even seraphims - really understand what warrants hell for souls and what warrants heaven. All different kinds of people from all different walks of life and backgrounds/experiences are there. The sex is there, it’s happening (like Cherri Bomb in ep 6 in the club), but it isn’t the point of the show. The point is largely that the system in place is hypocritical bullshit that should be overthrown.

[@kimbapbekidding1522]

@@lunavioleta001I mean I’m not the creator so I can’t say for sure but I take it as is Charlie knows they’re in hell and wants everyone to go to heaven and I do think Charlie has some shallow ideas of what not to do. Because you can still drink and have sex and still go to heaven or you should be able to. It should mainly matter how you are as a person. I think in angels case it’s because he’s not being his real self and we saw him do the three things on the list Adam wrote (which wasn’t even the real thing since they don’t actually know how souls get sent to them) but he still didn’t go to heaven because obviously his thoughts and feelings although they have gotten better and he is becoming happier and stronger since he stood up to val. I think he still needs to work on whatever the reason was for him to actually sign the contract with val in the first place. Also the only one that actually wanted to redeem themselves was sir pentious. No one else did so considering that as well the fact that Angel has had growth shows having friends helps. The talk with husk made him happier. As I said though I do still think with Charlie she does have some strange views on what can get you in heaven and I’m hoping they explore that a bit in s2 because she seems to think from the script she wrote in ep2 that not drinking not having sex until you’re married and not smoking or being on drugs will get you to be redeemed and that’s definitely not how it works. I think once she realises properly that it’s much deeper than that it’s better. It’s strange because she also got sir pentious to apologise to Alastor for ripping his coat which is good it’s the right thing to do so she does get it sometimes and other times it’s just not correct. So I really don’t know where they’re going with her character but I hope they do try to tell her that she isn’t right about all of those things.

[@DarkComputerGirl]

I think its bothering people that you talk over the dialogue instead of like pressing pause and then talking about it because yall sometimes talk over important info at times.

[@Fatalbeast22]

Just remember, in thise show heaven doesnt necessarily mean 'good' so even tho angel did go to hell in this universe for drugs and alot of sex, the show isnt saying thats bad in reality, but its bad by this worlds version of heaven

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

POISON didn't added anything new information wise. But previous songs did. Like the song with Alastor against Vox.

[@skylofter6840]

it took me into this episode to really get into the show so cant wait to see yalls reaction

[@LacrimosaTheNerd]

I'm about to infodump so much rn so apologies in advance. So, Angel Dust. In life his name was Anthony, and he lived to be in his 30s and died of a drug overdose in 1947. A lot was happening in the 1940s, including the start of WW2. I'm not super into history, but he died even before the AIDS epidemic. We've been told people's forms in hell relate to their lives or how they died, and Angel and his family are spiders because of their "web of crime". Being publicly queer could easily put you in danger in his time, and in a crime family, that's a weakness to be exploited. And Angel Dust is gay (when he meets Charlie he thinks she's a customer and says he charges extra for women lol). When he died, he didn't want to stick with the family business. From there, info is less solid, but it's theorized Valentino lured Angel in with a relationship or a promise to make him famous, and eventually it spiraled into what it is now. I think you're jumping to a few conclusions about this show saying "ew" at gayness or kink when that's very much not the case. First of all, it starting on one of Angel's films is made to be a joke. Even the previous episode's BDSM club joke was this same joke: Angel taking a normal innocent thing (here Show and Tell, then Trust Exercises) and making it sexual. Charlie and Vaggie are together so it'd be pretty weird of them to judge it for being gay. As to their reactions to watching Angel's film, there's the fact that that kind of content is usually more private and includes hot strangers. It's not real common to sit and watch your friend be brutally violently fucked. It's a very common experience for people to be super uncomfy when a sex scene comes on in a movie you're watching with a group, even if it's not explicit, so how much more uncomfy would it be if it were explicit? As to their specific reactions, Vaggie is sapphic so she's not even attracted to guys so it's kinda normal she'd find it gross, and Charlie is a sweet innocent naive ray of sunshine and the video is clearly not only sexual, but violent, and she's very not okay seeing her friends get hurt. Angel is a known pornstar and no one at the hotel really thinks less or differently of him for it. Husk gets fed up with Angel coming onto him specifically and being fake, and Vaggie calls him out for being hypersexual when they're trying to focus on something. Both of which are fair, as he is directly effecting them in those instances. And pornography on the whole is normal in Hell. In the very first song, Charlie sings about "the porn studio where the cinephiles go to watch award-winning demon bukkake shows". So I don't think think it's sex shaming. How things work in Hell, there are natural-born hellions known as Hellborn. There aren't really any besides Charlie in Hazbin, they're more a focal point in Helluva Boss (which I don't watch but I've learned). These are like Succubi, Imps, and Hellhounds. Most of the demons in Hazbin are Sinners, demons who used to be human and were sent to Hell in death for whatever reason. We don't know all the reasons people were sent there, even in the main cast, but Angel was in a crime family, Alastor was a serial killer, Pentious was a "supervillain" in his time period of the Victorian Era, and Husk was a gambler who would use tricks he learned as a stage magician to cheat and con people. And Charlie is Hellborn. As far as we know, people have only been damned for causing tangible harm to other people. There is no evidence people are sent there for being queer or kinky. Hell is less traditional fire and brimstone and more like a prison. It's full of rotten, awful people and continue that violence on the inside. There are also people who made mistakes or were forced into a "sinful" life, like Angel Dust. Charlie is like someone who wants prison reform, wants to work to actually rehabilitate these people and make them functional members of society rather than, well, demons. There will always be some that cannot be saved, but there's some that you can, but the system, in this case Heaven, doesn't see that. And Charlie is just one person and definitely doesn't have a psychology degree of any kind. She's going on instinct and kindness. Hence her fixation on basics like "sharing feelings" and "trust falls" and "apologizing" and believing that should be enough. Her heart's in the right place, but she doesn't know shit. But it's displayed from the beginning how delusional she is, singing about a "Happy Day In Hell" while everything is still on fire and just before being told the Extermination is coming sooner. There is a distinct lack of (currently known) therapists in Hell, but therapists who would be deemed Sinners are likely the kind to manipulate their patients rather than help them, or otherwise do them harm, so who would trust them as a therapist? It's not like there's HIPPA in Hell. And that's assuming they could even get patients. The people of Hell are jaded because they are LITERALLY IN HELL. What's the point in therapy at that point, y'know? Angel even said "who wouldn't wanna spend their last days fuckin' and fightin'?" Like, you're already in Hell, how much worse can it get? Contracts, we don't fully know how they work, but they are an agreement that binds you down to your soul. Just logically that wouldn't be an easy thing to break, so I doubt Charlie could just do it, but she doesn't know all the details in the first place. You can't really break a contract without reading the fine print. Hope this helps clear some things up ^^;

[@SeanTanktop]

this is all fancinating and should be inside of this show.

[@LacrimosaTheNerd]

@@SeanTanktopAll of that, besides their lives on earth IS in the show, it's just that the show is really fast paced in part because it's a musical and they do be like that, and that they only had 8 episodes to tell the first season's story so everything's kinda speedy and squished. Things are easy to miss if you don't pay close attention. I do hope their lives on earth are touched on in the next season, because it's super interesting. But if you're curious about that and don't wanna look it up: Vaggie died in her 20s in 2014. She's sapphic and Latina. There's not much else given about her when she was alive. Sir Pentious died in his 40s in 1888. He was imagined as a "supervillain" in Victorian England, to my knowledge the only one confirmed to not be from America. His sexuality is undefined, but he does like women. Niffty died when she was 22 in the 1950s. She's the only straight member of the main cast lol. She's Japanese. She can play the guitar. She's apparently the type to read fanfiction, and write fanfiction about people she knows in real life. We don't know if she DOES, but she would. It's hard to tell, but her design is based on bugs and old movie aliens, and she was gonna have antennae but they were deemed superfluous and too much to animate. Husk died in his 60s or 70s in the 1970s. He's Pansexual, apparently in a very gender-blind sense. He's originally from Las Vegas and grew up loving magic shows and became a magician himself, but his career was unsuccessful. This, along with growing up in casinos, led to the gambling and drinking. He also played saxophone in lounges sometimes. He's apparently multilingual (his OG VA, the wonderful Mick Lauer, is fluent in Mandarin and apparently inspired this trait). He's actually very soft-hearted, just extremely jaded. He craves validation, and is actually very cuddly, but would only show that side to a significant other. He dislikes his form as a cat and how adorbs he is, but he's gotten used to it by now. This form, to his frustration, comes with involuntary purring lmao Angel Dust died in his 30s in 1947 of a drug overdose. He lived as Anthony in NYC and is of Italian descent and was part of a crime family, based on the stereotypical Brooklyn gangsters (hence his accent). In previous iterations, he also had an older brother named Arackniss and a twin sister named Molly. He's very gay, but will sleep with women if paid enough apparently. He's hypersexual in death in part because he couldn't be sexual in life. He is cis but likes to play with his image and is apparently also a drag queen. He hates his feet and tries to avoid work that would focus on that. He actually likes kids and, beyond swearing, would be generally responsible and sweet around them. While more in the background, he has a little demon piggy pet whose name is Fat Nuggets. Pink is his favorite color. Alastor died in his 30s or 40s in 1933 in a "dog-related incident". He's Asexual and somewhere on the Aromantic spectrum, but completely unaware of this in part due his ignorance towards anything past his own time period (though his fellow Overlord and bestie Rosie is very aware of this). In life, he was mixed-race Creole and lived in New Orleans (hence the voodoo vibes) and actually knows a little French, but isn't fluent. He was a popular radio star, as well as a serial killer. (A past iteration of his death was being killed by a hunter who mistook him for a deer while he was disposing of a victim. This is why he has deer traits and has an X on his forehead, where he was shot. How much of that is still canon is unknown.) He chose his victims very specifically and had a weird moral code of some kind. He was an only child and apparently a "momma's boy", and on the whole finds women to be more intelligent in conversation. He has been known to have an uncharitable view of men in general, disliking most and seeing characters like Angel and Husk as pitiful, so men were likely his targets in life. He also apparently wouldn't kill a child, but is otherwise apathetic to them. He's a cannibal in Hell but likely wasn't in life, but he is something of a foodie and actually likes to cook (though he does appear fond of venison, so...kinda cannibalistic? lol). He can play several instruments, including piano, violin, trumpet, and saxophone, and he really likes jazz music. We know so much about him less because there's a lot to know and more because of how popular he is so many questions are asked. That's all the things I can think of related to their lives that isn't able to be clearly gleaned from the show. How much is still canon is in question though. These characters have been around much longer than this show has and they've changed over time.

[@austinknight4030]

Good for you two looking into the back story of this universe. I definitely didn’t understand all of the concepts but some people who do reactions to this series filled me in who knew way more than I did. Does the guy who watches “GOT rewatch” ever hear about this show?

[@TheCryptofHorrors-DerCryptaxis]

Pretty great reads guys, a lot of questions do get answered over the rest of these but sounds like the holes are filling in

[@sammiebray1661]

I’m pretty sure that Vivian has said in an interview that season 2 will focus more on the characters back stories and how they died. I wish we could’ve gotten more of that in season 1. My only complaint about the show is that it is a bit rushed, BUT I will say there was no guarantee for a season 2 and they were given 8 episodes to work with. They did what they had to do to get the story out that they wanted in the short time they were given.

[@cdmay4]

Yeah to be fair a lot of stuff that's common knowledge among fans is hunted down information and it seems like the creator is still in the process of changing things a bit. It's not great at presenting all the info you need. But if you feel you need it here are the things I can think of: 1. If you are a sinner, you can only die in hell if a higher being (lucifer, Charlie, an angel etc.) Kills you. Otherwise you reform somewhere else painfully. However if you are eaten or blown up etc. You're reformed as eyes in the background of hell. 2. Hellborn are people born in hell who can die normally (imps, hellhounds, sucuubus etc.) unless they are royalty, a sin or angelic. Angelic steal can kill them though. (Also lute says "daddy gave you & your Hellborn kind a pardon from an exorcist blade" making hellborn excluded from extermination) 3. Charlie and Vaggie are girlfriends and considering what Charlie thinks a redeemed sinner looks like I think your assumption is fair. 4. When a soul makes a deal or contract they can't get out of it. 5. Angel was part of the mob and died of an overdose. 6. When you die you drop from the sky somewhat randomly. 7. Overlords are people who've made several deals to own souls and or rule over a territory in hell. 8. Hellborn can have sex and kids but sinners can't have kids with eachother (take this one with a grain of salt it could have changed) 9. Alistor is a sinner who was a serial killer and was and is a cannibal. He died being shot by a hunter who thought he was a dear which is why he has dear like features. Being a sinner makes it strange he has that much power. 10. There is a racial/social rank in hell: Lucifer Charlie & Lilith The sins Goetia (royal bird demons) Overloards Sinners Imps Hellhounds It's more relevant in helluvaboss which is still technically a musical but there's not quite as many songs and it's easy to forget it's a musical. 11. Charlie is bisexual and has an ex boyfriend you can see in the pictures in the background of the hotel as well as pics of Lilith. 12. Many demons prefer stay within the time period they died and have districts where only tech/clothes from their Era is aloud (this one could also have changed as it's supposed to help explain alistors disdain for TV but a few scenes don't make sense) That's all the information I can think of that the show doesn't exclusively explain but I probably missed something. Plus I hear viziepop get frustrated that she said something outloud that she changed later. So while it does help fill in holes think of it as soft Canon anyway.

[@ryanlow6901]

True 👍 I usually have to ask other fans regarding lore about characters from this show and Helluva Boss

[@SeanTanktop]

that means that the show is bad at this aspect of storytelling lol @@ryanlow6901

[@LucasF25]

Idk guys, i don't think you need to be religious at all to have the understanding drugs are bad. Specially heavy drugs. I mean, he's a Cocaine and crack addict for fucks sake. Sure, they're bad only for you, but still not great. Even in a world where Heaven wasn't this shitty, still for the best if he were to tone it waaaay down. Wouldn't say it's evil, but it's not really good either. The sex work is sex work, the heavy drugs i completely disagree with yalls take though and that's coming from me as an agnostic nowadays.

[@SeanTanktop]

so is booze bad, a sin?

[@LucasF25]

@@SeanTanktop More like self destructing is bad. Now i wouldn't say it's a sin per se, but i'm also not religious and in many religious it would be. And welp, agree or disagree, they are trying to go to Heaven right now. Sure they can eventually get to a point where they say that Heaven is Full of shit and they don't want to, but it's not like It doesnt make sense. But yeah, i wouldn't call it morally wrong but i'd still say it's pretty bad, specially getting fucked up, even in booze if too much, yes.

[@julianaalves6591]

I think the thing in the show is exactly about why this people are in hell, what they did to be there and how this don't make any sense. That's what Charlie trying to bring up.

[@noahmasi9368]

To clarify, Charlie is probably about the second or third most powerful being in Hell. She is about as above Val as you are above a crippled baby rabbit. Angel’ request that Val not hurt her is likely more the result of him building up how threatening he is in his own mind than any practical risk he could be to her. As for the contract itself, those are magic so we don’t know if there are greater forces at play with that then just legal stuff (which I’m pretty sure is probably pretty loose in Hell anyway). Something to note about Hell is that it’s basically Anarchy as a political system. There are no protections against abuse in any form and authority extends as far as the nearest strong person’s fist. Valentino and others can run their businesses without regard for anything but their bottom line until something forces them too. Everyone else seems to consider the notion of redemption ridiculous, and so have very little incentive not to act on their worst impulses because they don’t think they have cause to aspire to something better.

[@Sylvanite-ls1pf]

Sir Pentious died in the 1880s, so he is a little prudish.

[@SeanTanktop]

and nearly 150 years of hanging out hasn't mellowed his vibe, sheesh

[@Sylvanite-ls1pf]

I think having no one to hang out with but Egg Bois leads to some emotional stunting. 😉

[@justinehercthehuman]

Episode with the best songs. Also, the first comment being a bot with a butt profile 😐 AngelDust would find that shit funny tbh.

[@Raquelgrl3271]

My answer to the jntro is that you haven't finished the season yet. Most commenters have probably watched everything and know more so are talking from a different perspective aside from just real world religious view etc.

[@DocuzanQuitomos]

"Why would anyone go to heaven, if its a place that allows Adam?" True, the show partially gets into a corner when presenting Heaven and Hell as opposites, not based in a tangible classification system, but rather an arbitrary set of rules where, after judgement, practically anything is said and done an no further change is permitted. Thus... why would anyone one aspire to be better if heaven is a place full of self righteous jerks XD. Here is the catch, I think, and part of the beauty of the show: hell is, anyway, a place of punishment. In spite of the rotten system, people who get classified in Hell got to an eternity of torture that (eventually) would make them better or worse. The problem (and when it comes to unusual punishment, perhaps) is that when you get some degree of concience or self reflection, you are not the same person as you were when you arrived in Hell; and if you are able to change from your worst version or your worst day... don't you deserve some kind of redemption, reward or chance of something different? Of course, going to heaven maybe might be a tall call (specially when the system is ambiguous), but staying stuck in the worst version of Hell is not exactly fun or liberating either. For karma, or for the force of personal will, an indivudal should be able to change the circumstances of his surroundings. The toture of Hell is that there is no betterment unless it doesn't involve crime, pain, endless death, blood feuds, deals, some form of abuse and power struggles. There is no place in this Hell to live eternity without relative stress. and fear; specially considering The Purge kills indiscriminately (and, thus, the only seemingly available option is to go up, to the opposite version: a place where worries don't exist and you won't be a target, just because you are there). You make an interesting point that the show hasn't given us explicitly the whys and the hows mostly everyone ended in Hell. I was going to quote Oscar Wilde "we are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" to partially make the point that, even when sinners are being punished, that doesn't mean all havent evolved from the situation that send them there; but (after researching a bit more the context of the quote) I found another one in the same play that also provides some insight on this part of the show (the lack of context for some characters): "[D]on't be led astray into the paths of virtue. Reformed, you would be perfectly tedious (...) [I]f we are good when they meet us, they don't love us at all. They like to find us quite irretrievably bad, and to leave us quite unattractively good." Both quotes come from Wilde's play "Lady Windermere's Fan", and while this particular case talks about how men lose interest in women as they get more virutous and perfect; we can partially apply it this particular Hell: these characters have been judged and classified "evil" before we met them... Does it really matter why? Would that make a difference? Would that justify more or less why we like them when we get to know them? Of course, we like to think that would (and we are used to think it changes things: nobody would have befriended, let's say, Hitler if they had known what he would do). But then... aren't we applying the same judgement as this Heaven?: people are worthy or not of sympathy based on one single point of their history, their worst trait or their worst day. We are challenged to make up our minds about these characters as they are in the present; not as they were judged (something that, in reality, happens every day; if the Hitler of the XXI century helped you in one difficult situation, before rising to prominence for his nefarious actions, your following memories of him won't exactly be only around the concept of "that inhuman piece of [censored]"). In some cases, we love these characters for the way we identify with them; how they seem to have been judged with very little knowledge and context and doomed for all eternity. Their particular (and mostly rocky) struggle for redemption or betterment (because not all betterment has to mean redemption) mimicks our hopes that we can grow a bit from individual gutters; specially when we are surrounded by contexts where "being righteous" equals "being perfect" and (many times) being a jerk to those who have failed (more than once) on the road. "They are doing gay sex and they go... ewww?" The problem is not that's gay sex; it's that it's *over the top, 4k, multi-leaking angle* gay sex, with the peculiar Valentino touch (did you recall how she greets Charlie with a sticky lick; you can imagine what directorial choices he might make). The show partially has flaws on the take of sex and sex work, but also sticks, interestingly, to the failures of every character for not seeing beyond their specific bubbles: that's why that particular video is not Vaggie's taste, it's not anywhere close to Husk's interest (who seems to like hard boiled realism, or he is just pissing off Angel XD) and I guess Charlie didn't want to meet Angel that deeply (the girl was in a porn set and she started to invite all the crew to visit the hotel, rather than getting to know other things XD). As for ethical porn and an ethical view of sex work, I see that's possible in universe and I hope it eventually becomes more prominent in the storylines; but here is the current problem: as far as we know, Valentino is the only (or, at least, the most prominent) porn producer in Hell and you've seen how he handles his talent and workplace... How much of Valentino's productions will be that much ethical? We've seen people are kinky in hell outside of the stablished V empire (A Happy Day in Hell XD) and that is a chance of introducing positive sex education; but otherwise, if hell's currency is fear, deals, deception and greed... it makes sense the most prominent aspects of all life are never ethical or positive: they all rely in fear, deals, deception and greed (even sex). Partially we get to see the torture of that in the original pilot: the newscaster, who should be used to the idea Hell is full of all kinds of tastes and preferences is openly homophobic (even with the Princess of Hell), kink-shaming is a common practice in sex work (as we saw with Angel's first client). That's also why drugs in drinks are part of the game: we know Angel is pretty much open to anything (for fun or as an act, depending on the day) but those sharks don't care; they want to assert power and dominance (and who knows what else they had in mind): the drug is to up *their fun*; it doesn't matter if Angel is already open to it or not, it's more fun *if Angel never consents* (keep in mind, that while the show deals with dark undertones, it never goes full dark in all the practices that could be made: I doubt Angel would be ok to have an arm cut off, if that was one of the Shark's fetishes... to pick a random dark, but still PG-13 description). Yep: Hell is built under the worst reasonings and worst motivations and nobody, until now, has ever questioned much if there can be a different path; or a less aggresive sector. Nobody has ever been asked to play frequently with more ethical or positive rules (and even then... some people outgrow the general rules under which Hell seem to work). "Charlie's evil side" The show has just given glimpses of what Charlie's full power's may be, if she embraces her demonic form (for good or bad); the thing in this Hell is that, beside overlords (who regularly make power demonstrations), there is no respect for really anyone who doesn't regularly makes shows of force. Charlie has never publicly shown if she has the power or the guts to get into fight all the way to the end; and Angel is worried she might not be as powerful, prepared or even ruthless as Valentino can be. Besides all the abuse, Angel's POV is that Charlie is nowhere closer to take someone like Valentino, not even in her position as Princess of Hell. And there is the other catch: Charlie wants to find a better way to solve issues rather than the usual "rip your foe apart"; if she (in the end succeeds and kicks the living [censored] out of Valentino)... how she would feel about that? After all, she is (as of now) in a position where she considers using her authority as Princess of Hell "so mean". Yep, not the most perfect set of circumstances to get into a fight that might end up making you question your choices in life. "Mental health" It's fun to think of it... but Charlie's childish and over the top plans to redeem people come from this particular element: she has never had access to any significant resource about proper mental health care XD. She was born in hell, there are no libraries with adecuate books or Google, sinners who arrive don't seem to share that knowledge and demons and overlords are only interested in grabbing power and ruling through fear. Under those circumstances... how the hell she can make sense of what she needs to do? It seems most of her ideas came from someone who payed little to no attention in sunday school (say no to drugs, say no to premarital sex, trust falls...) rather than someone who actually knew about the topic on earth XD. Until then, she is a pioneer stuck with the vision and discoveries she might make along the way (and the letters she writes). Nice reaction; see you in the next one.

[@bogart403]

I think even though charlie wants to change hell's rules, it's just she can't. Because the overlords doesn't seem to care that she's the heir to the throne and continue to blatantly disrespect her. And since charlie is a hellborn, she's not a sinner unlike the rest of them.

[@KBRoller]

Just about the starting conversation: nah, I'm with you. I wouldn't want to be in heaven in this universe, either; it seems just as corrupt as hell, but faker about it. Honestly, there doesn't really seem to be a good afterlife in the Hazbin/Helluva world... I might just beg to be exterminated 😂 But most of the characters don't realize how bad heaven is, so they of course want to escape the hell they're in. Charlie has physical power, but I'm not sure she really has any political power. Most people seem like they don't give a shit about nobility in hell. In the pilot, everyone disrespected and laughed Charlie offstage, basically; and Katie Killjoy had no qualms about attacking her outright, physically. Even in the spinoff (Helluva Boss) which focuses on the hellborn demons, I think we've only seen one person respect the noble titles, and everyone else doesn't care. So... the Hotel is Charlie's way of trying to make a difference, on an individual level, because she doesn't really have the power to make broad changes in hell.

[@XFizzlepop-Berrytwist]

I feel like you are kind of hitting the nail on the head with Hell perfectly, but struggling to accept that as an answer? If you have ever seen the TV show Lucifer Hell is literally that. Hell is a place you have created for yourself, is a great theory. Hell in this world could be much better if the people worked together, and cared a bit more. They choose to be bad or terrible though, creating a self fulfilling prophecy of their own internal and eternal suffering. No one is torturing you, its just you torturing yourself. Well there are other people as well, kinda as the saying goes, “Hell is other people.” You try living in a prison basically with a bunch of killers and gangsters etc, the worst of the worst, it wont be too fun really.

[@zoeylace4778]

I gave these guys until episode 4 becsuse this is when people usually get into it but they're still making the same wrong accusations and points. I honestly have no idea why they kept watching this. Like i know some people like to hatewatch but i dont get it here. Maybe the views are just that good idk.

[@zoeylace4778]

Calling Vaggie still a murdering hypocrite is insane... that's willfully just trying to hate her. I could go on for a whiiiiiile about how absurd that is.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

to be fair, there is reason Vaggie isn’t really over sexual which we find out later and Charlie is just so pure and naive that she is not ready to see hardcore porn like that Husk doesn't like Angels flirting because it is an act and a form of escape, and he doesn’t want something fake, he wants Angel to want him for him, not as a distraction. Many of the characters are just not hyper sexual, but a lot of people in hell are.

[@Isshindzahul]

Is my impression that sex and debauchery are not reasons to be in hell but that Charly, our mc and point of view character, is very prudish herself. It is her who has the view that redemption takes into account “not having sex before marriage”, she is the one turning her head when sex is on view, she even has extremely low pda with her girlfriend.

[@OliviaMosby-yv9hf]

So sorry for angel

[@ericmcneil8509]

I get people saying don’t talk during every moment of a song kind of thing…but we are watching y’all to see your reactions. I’m a musician and get very excited and get it. But at the same time. Don’t think y’all have to be 100% quiet during songs. Do your thing!!! Also, y’all are both hot AF 🔥

[@AdventuresOfO]

I think Morgan brings up some excellent points, and its great to hear a dissenting argument. I'm happy that this show exists and is able to show any sexually complex situations, even if there is an undertone of deviancy or being "wrong". If you look at it from the perspective of conservative mindset, these actions would put you in hell, even if we know that its not the case. Consensual sex, regardless of gender, is ok. Angel and Val's contract and relationship is extremely toxic however, and Poison greatly captures the competing complex emotions of addiction, sex, and abuse. It can be hard to watch, but I applaud Vivziepop for daring to show this to a general audience. Thank you Morgan for standing up for sex workers. And thank you Sean for continuing this show regardless if your commenters have negative opinions. We love you guys for being yourselves and giving us your genuine reactions.

[@vincentlegacy]

Some of these comments are kinda harsh. I love the show, but I won’t act like the reason I know most of the lore, like Angel being a mobster, isn’t from youtube shorts. And sure, you guys talk through some scenes and miss some stuff, but no one catches every detail on their first watch-through.

[@vincentlegacy]

For real though, how would anyone watching the show put together that Alastor has antlers because he was a cannibal serial killer that died while disposing a body in the woods, because a hunter thought he was a deer and shot him. Or that Angel is a spider because he spun a web of lies to the mobsters he worked for.

[@SeanTanktop]

all of this is amazing and i wish it was in the show. this is the most gaslighting we've gotten since the DeathNote Red Pilled Anime guys last year@@vincentlegacy

[@atapper10]

This show is so queer it actually hurts how much Christianity you're attributing to it.

[@SeanTanktop]

Then why is it cast as gross, repugnant, and disgustingby a bunch of its central characters constantly (Charlie weirded out by really tame stuff all the time, Vaggie straight up calls Angel’s Porn disgusting, the team decide that making war games is a better team building exercise than a BDSM club) whom are never confronted with the error of their judgement within the shows thesis or directly by other characters?

[@atapper10]

@@SeanTanktop Charlie is tame as all hell, I'm ace and I feel more adept than her. I really don't want to criticize cuz your take because your game of thrones viewing is so fucking wonderful.

[@atapper10]

Charlie is in the weeds absolutely, but heaven is the villain

[@rufusmay9615]

@@SeanTanktopI could take a crack at that, if you like.

[@sandracarnegie2871]

@@SeanTanktop Charlie is one of those pure people that don't like sex, people are allowed to be disgusted by it. 2. VAggie is a straight up lesbian, so of course it's disgusting to her. 3. Vaggie was the only one that thought war bonding was necessary because she was in that kind of like as you'll see later 4. Your media literacy sucks

[@kahale]

HHHHNNG ALL THERE QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED HNNNG ITS SO HARD WATCHING THEM QUESTION IT HHHNNNNG

[@Literallyjustmint]

The girl does not get it.

[@Tiffie.Jo83]

Are you not going to react to the last two episodes of True Detective Season 4?

[@woolsocks9792]

right?? where the rest of the eps at??

[@Tiffie.Jo83]

I enjoyed their reactions on the show and then; BAM! Nothing….😢

[@woolsocks9792]

@@Tiffie.Jo83 same!! tbh I’m probably gonna have to get their patreon to see what they thought about it

[@BreakerInc]

I don't think Hell has quality control in the workplace, just saying XD

[@valeespinoza8815]

You would like Helluva Boss better to be honest

[@YuriKing-t1g]

But you got to think about the biblically accurate sins

[@ButtonsandBookends]

As a theatre kid who loves your watch-thrus, I'm sorry folks are being defensive 💙

[@ButtonsandBookends]

I want to reassure you (without spoiling) that your anxiety around the WHY of people going to hell or heaven is on the show's radar, and it dealt with in a way that was at least satisfying to this estranged queer who grew up in a fundamentalist community.

[@ButtonsandBookends]

I'm surprised people were adamant about paying attention to the lyrics in Ep. 4. Episode 6 is the one with lyrical reveals.

[@SeanTanktop]

We found the Snyder Cut of Theatre kids! From a couple of theatre kids! I was the fucking lead in my High School Musical! they're being very agressive and gaslighting. Acting like we're stupid cause we don't know lore from Tumblr and Twitter of the creator. It's thought-terminating at it's worst.

[@kdash506]

This show really caters to 2000s youtube kids (now adults in their 20s) that posted on tumblr/reddit/4chan, drew bad/good fan art on deviant art and probably got a kick out of my little pony: friendship is magic. While also wanting to be adult. This comes from the fact that the creator is very much one of those people, unapologetically. The show isnt the best, but has some decent songs and characters imo. It does a good job for it's intended audience. (This is all my opinion)

[@justinehercthehuman]

I agree so much with all your criticisms. But I still enjoy the show for what it is trying to tell. I'm sorry the fans feel too butthurt that some people don't give it at least a 7/10 😂 as if people can't have opinions. Like let's be real. The morals of this show is not THAT deep.