Apple Adds RCS and OpenAI Explodes!

This week, Marques and David discuss the big news of the week including Apple agreeing to add RCS to its Messages app. After that David walks us through everything that happened with OpenAI before Marques talks about what it was like to go to his first F1 race. Of course, we wrap it all up with trivia! Hope you enjoy.
P.S - Shoutout to 9to5Mac for breaking the RCS story and the Verge for their amazing coverage and reporting on the OpenAI situation. We've linked them down below!
Chapters
00:00 Intro
02:23 Nothing and Sunbird
07:12 iPhone gets RCS
16:19 Trivia
17:14 Wix (Sponsored)
18:11 Visible (Sponsored)
19:07 OpenAI Drama
01:00:10 Trivia
01:00:36 Gigabyte (Sponsored)
01:01:55 Shopify (Sponsored)
01:03:09 Polestar Update
01:06:04 MKBHD Team at F1
01:17:15 Dua Lipa Interviewed Tim Cook
01:18:53 Trivia Answers
01:21:38 AI Fact Checks Marques
01:24:26 Outro
Links:
- Apple Adds RCS: 9to5mac.com/2023/11/16/apple-...
OpenAI stories:
- www.theverge.com/2023/11/22/2...
- www.theverge.com/2023/11/17/2...
- www.theverge.com/23966325/ope...
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Waveform: / wvfrm
Waveform: www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast
Marques: www.threads.net/@mkbhd
Andrew: www.threads.net/@andrew_manga...
David Imel: www.threads.net/@davidimel
Adam: www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17
Ellis: / ellisrovin
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Join the Discord:
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Music by 20syl:
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Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

[@dmore]

That intro might be the greatest moment in the podcasts history 😂

[@none_the_less]

Ain’t that the truth!!!

[@joaquin_chua]

It is@@none_the_less

[@benblarney]

Best intro ever

[@AaronUballe]

It was fantastic 😂

[@gabramosrod]

@@LJdaentertainerhe said of this podcast history🗿

[@MojeZycieWSkrocie]

I love how David perfectly did his bit while Marques was struggling not to laugh. I'm barely 2 minutes into the episode. 😭😭😂😂💀

[@CodeNameEN]

Marques’ team really makes this podcast special, you guys are all so passionate, informed, and yourself. This was a great episode, I appreciated the OpenAI recap!

[@artemis4777]

End to end encryption means that the only two parties with access to the messages are the sender and receiver. In transit means that the server that hosts the service may have access to the messages, but it’s encrypted whenever it’s in motion (like when it’s on the way from the sender to the server and then from the server to the receiver).

[@BillyBraga]

It's a shame they didn't look that up before the recording. It's so important that people don't get overly alarmed. It is somewhat complicated, but this is something the general public needs to start learning I think.

[@esaedvik]

@@BillyBraga It's kind of absurd how little average people care about security. E2EE is important for like the 0.0001% of mobile device users. Just saw a woman post about getting a phone number from a date (he was a bit younger) and she had no clue what to do with it outside Tinder. Wasn't even sure if SMS' still work nowadays. The date asked that surely she had something like Signal or Telegram and the reaction was just absolutely hopeless to read. And this wasn't even in the US, so she probably wasn't an Apple user...Just a 30-something completely fallen out of tech.

[@NaqqashLatif]

More drama stories like OpenAI by David, please. He's a great story teller lol

[@furn2313]

That opening bit.....no notes. Nailed it.

[@koteiryuu-sensei]

As an F1 fan listening to this. Banger opening. To give context to the story in the 1997(?) season of F1. McLaren built the innovative design with an extra pedal. A F1 photographer Darren, saw an anomaly when the car was going through a fast corner but the rear was on fire. In the next race one of the cars retired in front of him and he sneaked his camera into the car just to get a short. Which went viral in the end

[@nevadatorres2865]

things went viral in the 1900s?

[@PrograError]

@@nevadatorres2865 I guess he meant the papers lit a fire on the FIA board's arse and the competitors going "WTF, we should investigate it or protest it".

[@junedkhatri31]

9:27 Encryption in transit is HTTPS instead of HTTP, making chat data secure in network. On the other hand, end-to-end encryption means that the message is encrypted alongside HTTPS, essentially providing double encryption. In simpler terms, a universal profile server can read messages on their server in the case of encryption in transit. However, if it supported end-to-end encryption, then even the universal profile server can't read the message.

[@agspr]

I've only recently started to watch this podcast consistently. and now getting this notification has become like a drug. 😂💪🏻

[@loremejmir298]

Formula 1 has A LOT of technical rules, engineers are just trying to find the loopholes and interpret them in the most creative and convenient way so they can lap a track 0.01 seconds faster than the next best team. I would highly highly recommend you look into the story of Adrian Newey, by far the best technical director and aerodynamicist that the sport has ever seen. The way his mind works is just... fascinating

[@SureshRajan]

for someone who hasn't went to a grand prix, your detailed explanation of smells and sounds were top notch. Oh btw the light doesn't green in F1, its just all red lights going off.

[@frankreidy5881]

This is podcast heaven - you guys deserve all the plaudits - F1 is now USA for sure

[@theharesbreath]

F1 and tech coming together is my heaven

[@abhi14dec95]

im so happy that marques and everyone else is interested in f1 now, so excited for you guys to learn and explore the whole universe of Formula 1 and be mind blown.

[@TRUEbASNER]

Also quite ironic that an AI company simply crumbles when the human staff threatens to jump ship😅

[@nandhagopan]

Happy Waveform Weekend ❤ You guys should've Turned off the main lights for that Rock Music Bit.

[@Waveform]

we debated it! but they fade too slow so it wouldn't have been that dramatic haha

[@mjdalicandro]

​@@WaveformYou can always fix it in post.

[@NineteenEightyFive]

The intro put into perspective just how chill marques and David’s “base level” is 😂😂😂

[@bass_code]

Best part of Firdays

[@Josyeliel]

Love firdays

[@hedgehog694]

Do not edit this

[@abhisheksaseendran3861]

Encrypted in transit basically means when the message is sent via network requests from the phone to servers it’s encrypted…. However that message might not be encrypted locally on your phone or anywhere else where it’s decrypted later on (on servers or other phones ), i.e. it is unencrypted at “rest”. It’s only encrypted when that data is being sent from one place to another. Hence you can’t call it end to end encrypted.

[@carleton3283]

This is not correct. End to end encrypted is encrypted by your device and decrypted by the recipient. Encrypted in transit is encrypted and decrypted by the service provider so they have the full ability to read and store the messages. This is the same security as modern SMS. Encrypted in transit is protected against attackers intercepting the request over the wire, but it does nothing to prevent the cell service provider from reading your messages.

[@chrislyonm]

​@@carleton3283 To clarify, they use completely different security protocols. The older security protocols SMS uses are quite outdated and far easier to intercept and potentially decrypt than even the RCS providers that don't have end-to-end encryption. I'm not sure why Apple isn't choosing to prioritize end-to-end encryption for Apple users with RCS or outsource it to providers that have this built-in. Their competitors do.

[@balegdeh.]

@@carleton3283exactly what i thought and i was so confused at the other comment💀

[@BillyBraga]

@@carleton3283 I think @abhisheksaseendran3861 is correct and you may misunderstand him, or you misunderstand Encryption in Transit. Encryption in Transit is encrypted locally, then sent to the server where it is decrypted, then encrypted again to be sent to the other phone, where it is decrypted again. This means the server can see what you send.

[@abhisheksaseendran3861]

@@carleton3283 I think a bit of clarity is needed here. A system can be called end to end encrypted if it stastifies the condition of encrypted at rest and encrypted in transit. Simply put , when that data is persited/stored somewhere(at "rest") is it encrypted? so that no one can read/make sense of that data even if they got their hands on it. And when that data is moved from one place to another (in "transit") via some medium, is it in an encrypted format such that anyone intercepting that message via the medium would still be unable to make sense of it. Not too sure sure on specifics of SMS systems and other infra , but conceptually I think this answers Ellis's question :) Good day mate !

[@AbandonedRaven]

I loved the F1 segment! Not too often you get to see American media talk about it. The Vegas GP was amazing, I don’t like how things were handled before the race, but the race itself and all of the flair around it was amazing.

[@julesm1434]

Been following the OpenAI drama closely. Looking forward to this episode!! Happy Friday 🎉.

[@jaughnekow]

ANOTHER INFORMATIVE EPISODE!!! AWESOME!!! that intro though

[@thelonelyloner7]

I have been patiently waiting for this episode ever since Apple's RCS announcement last week. Can't wait to listen. Cheers from Sweden! 🇸🇪

[@butwhataboutemma]

Hey Ellis! Encryption in transit means that the server can see the message. (ie User A sends a message to User B, the message is encrypted when being sent to the server, the server un-encrypts the message, looks it over, re-encrypts it and sends it on to User B). End-to-end encryption means that the server cannot unencrypt the message. (ie User A sends a message to User B, it's encrypted all the way through the server to User B). In E-to-E encryption, the routing info (User A to User B) is encrypted seperately and de-encrypted by the server.

[@mikepardo9976]

This is the best explanation of the crazy developments from last week with Sam. Great job.

[@selfhelpguy5589]

David, you are so the star of this podcast!

[@sarchiekay]

He had me glued the whole time 😅

[@ybemad]

I had to go back to re-watch the intro after completing the episode. Well done!

[@Stephen_Lafferty]

I was so looking forward to this episode, and I love the mid-cycle update on OpenAI - thanks! It already feels like ancient history, even though the significant events happened less than 168 hours than when I typed this! A wild week in Tech and AI!

[@IanWillsey]

The most in-depth study on OpenAi's crazy week. Thank you.

[@goodsoul6675]

I think Apple will continue using the green color for Android messages even after integrating RCS support.

[@therainman7777]

It’s been announced, and yes they will.

[@keco185]

It would be really confusing if they didn't use green. There'd be no easy way to know if you were in an iMessage chat or not without just trying to use an iMessage feature and seeing if it lets you

[@trevorbeingtrevor]

It would be cool to have a third color especially if SMS still works.

[@kyleeger]

​@@trevorbeingtrevorI could see them making SMS gray, and keeping green for RCS.

[@KloudAlpha]

​@@trevorbeingtrevorthis is apple we're talking about here.. if they add a third color it'll be piss yellow with white font. unreadable piss bubbles

[@ataritheone]

Awesome podcast. Thank you for the open ai story. Good listen

[@mattjgraham]

Its finally the weekend guys, in the UK! So happy waveform is here!

[@DipamPatel_yt]

Today's podcast was the only thing I was waiting for whole week

[@fahim_muntasir1]

Intro clip baby... Gonna see some storytime about F1 from David in the near future hopefully.

[@piteshmistry9957]

Great vid!! Guys talking about my favourite sport in F1 is awesome!! Just FYI, before the current hybird era, during the V8 engines era, you would HAVE TO wear earplugs...

[@danielcapitaoo]

Just as a quick FYI: The META fight with EU was about the privacy of the EU's user base, the sending of information to American servers with less regulation and the cookies issue. It has NOTHING to do with encryption.

[@nishantrajani7372]

EU has fought end to end encryption too not only with Meta but also tried to have a backdoor in iMessage when apple straight up said no. That’s why having a government union meddling with tech companies is a no no, while they will make some good decisions like forcing USB C (although it has its issues like imagine if this came out when micro usb was standard and they force apple to ditch lightning) or RCS, they will eventually turn into CCP like spies.

[@jaquab003]

Great episode as always....but I can't help but notice you guys forgot to put the cover over the AC controls

You were very much in your element. But this weeks tech news was truly insane. :) Please don't stop making these.

[@ChrisDelSanto98]

(In relation to the meclaron): Most, if not all tractors have individual break pedals for the right and left side. It’s so you can turn better in low traction situations. They can also be locked together in order to make them into one pedal.

[@hiddemoens82]

Marques: David what did you bring for lunch today? David: so it all started when I was 5 years old

[@MisterSixty]

This is the best podcast... *EVER!* *#Intro* Thank you for the video!

[@KROMAprd]

That OpenAI story was nuts (listened to this on Spotify this morning I'm UK based) Wondering if now is a good time buy Microsoft stock 😂

[@dhudsonpointdujour2786]

Yooo😂 i was not ready for this. I usually listen to the podcast because my job is driving but i had to pull over and rewatched the intro😂😂😂

[@mananahuja4656]

HAPPYYYY THANKS GIVING STUDIOOO!!!!

[@kelwinkwel]

Great breakdown on the F1 race. 🎉😮

[@sageakporherhe783]

That intro, i wasn't expecting that. Good one, guys. 🤣

[@vesves_4]

Marques’s reaction to the ChatGPT review of his F1 script was amazing. I’m going to feed some of my writing into ChatGPT and hope for a confidence boost 😂

[@Mwesi]

my mind exploded at about 1:20; :/ good stuff!

[@shanemooon]

Most LED screens have an internal refresh rate of 3840hz. Some lower and some higher. The underlying broadcast and screen management system is from Matrox and it is almost certainly 59.94 interlaced. So essentially 30fps content.

[@CLNSL8]

Absolutely a fresh perspective which I have not heard from anywhere with the credits and the example of Best Buy credit cards 😀

[@darknesswithin0]

9:36 So Ellis, it means that your messages are not communicated in the form of language but in the form of signals. That's like the way it always is for any wireless connection and they call it, I guess, the first or zero degree of encryption. The otherwise case would be like letters on paper where your text is readable by the postman even if he just unfolds it...

[@njparis]

Love the show!! What mic does Marques use?

[@gasparsigma]

I think encrypted in transit is like a mail delivery agent won't open and peek into your letter, but if it was sent to the wrong person that person can read it. End to end encrypted means only the sender and the intended receiver can read the content of the letter so if it was delivered to the wrong person they wouldn't be able to read it

[@gasparsigma]

@@blakeyflake but e2e as well, except the keys for signing are private to you and not the server transmitting the message right?

[@EV_Clutch]

One the polestar story, it's the long range rear wheel drive model. It still has CCS port.

[@shtaw7]

That intro was golden! Props dudes : slow-clap :

[@FaZaFurhod]

I think Apple should make purple the color for RCS chats on iPhones because it is still important to differentiate them from SMS chats

[@corvacopia]

Or at least another color aside from green or blue

[@Dedsec-22]

Chills Bro. The Intro Kinda Cool huh!😸

[@TewodrosWondimu]

Lol, that skit at the beginning is SNL level, nicely done 😁

[@BevertonRayan]

The way David tried so hard not to like f1, I felt that when my friends kept talking about it....but now I'm hooked 😭

[@LeagueofJay137]

Amazing episode The story was told very well F1 video was amazing

[@Rafiq07]

End-to-end encryption is where the communication is encrypted by the sender and decrypted by the receiver. If it's only encrypted in transit, when it lands on a platform/server, the communication is readable by the server and anyone who has control of it. If the communication gets picked up again and sent to another server, it's then encrypted in transit, but as soon as it lands on that server, it's readable again. With end-to-end encryption, regardless of the amount of legs the communication has to cover across servers, it can only be decrypted by its receiver.

[@helloimedden]

Gotta love how Nothing is like “it’s not just our name! It’s the amount of value you will have if you partner with us and how much security you will have if you use our services!”

[@incrediblemhi]

The intro though😢, the best ever

[@blackhelmet5315]

Loved that F1 story intro 🏎️

[@MikeKobela]

Marques talking about how loud the F1 cars are, and all I can think about is what he would think if they still used those screaming V10 engines 😭

[@KaleyDuke]

great episode!!

[@Nerdimo]

26:17 I think the correct term David is referring to is reinforcement learning which is a subset of machine learning. Unsupervised learning involves taking unlabeled data and finding similarities based on their features and grouping them based on that. Reinforcement learning involves taking an agent and throwing it into an environment to learn how to be good in that environment (Dota in this particular example). The agent is trying to learn a reward function that is somewhat modeled by the engineers who implement the AI and it’s not grouping information together into clusters like you see in unsupervised learning.

[@damirkvajo]

Never too late to get hooked to F1 but I am sad that you didn't experience it before turbos. The NA sound is an order of magnitude better than now.

[@heyfrancis3332]

Oh wow that INTRO def made my morning 🎊🎊🎊🔥🔥🔥😂😂🤣😂🤣🙌🏽

[@NathanLewisVideos]

I’d love to hear you talk more about spacex news, i’d say it counts as tech

[@SydPeppa]

The F1 stories. Keep em coming :)

[@citiadvance8694]

thank you Ellis for the dramatic intro and David for screaming at the top of your lungs because that's commitment

[@Marty_Stylist]

Congratulations Marque for being just good at what you do

[@mesimman1]

That was the best intro I’m the history of waveform 😂

[@Nesszors]

I really like that Keychron shirt! Very nice, Marques.

[@deucedaprodeuca]

Yep, got to the part where you talked about the wing over the front wheels. Yeah, it didn't work because the wheels turn on their own doors to the design of the track. They're were no physician on the team obviously, so a wind is only going to add drag with no positive attribute to speed and cornering.

[@flourish_ol]

David's narration is just, Goated chef's kiss 🤌🏾

[@Dygear]

Just an FYI, a F1 car runs off the equivalent of pump fuel. They don't use racing fuel. The Formula 1 cars looks kinda the same due to evolution that's true. But the rules also state that they can't build bodywork into certain sections so that's also part of it. As far as the story at 1:16:00 with the McLaren is was actually the photographer that noticed the breaks on the inside of the turn (where he was talking a picture) were glowing and that makes no sense given that he was in an acceleration zone so the breaks should not be glowing. So when the McLaren was stranded at the side of the track that same photographer stuck his camera into the cockpit and snapped a picture of the 2nd break pedal.

[@merrygold1998]

Dude the car sound effects are so accurate 🤣🤣

[@mensahfrancis4216]

I was not.. I was soo noot ready for that short rave..😂😂😂😂

[@MubinNoor]

1:09:18 Marques doing the the F1 impression is a highlight for me.

[@hemanthreddy4765]

Does anyone know if the F1 video mentioned during the episode release?

[@Leanzazzy]

46:00 Master move 😮 It just goes to show how kindness and proper leadership inspires such loyalty that the entire company is willing to go down if the CEO is replaced.

[@JorgeOlivares1]

Encrypted in transit means that that the communication between client and server are encrypted but the server can see the content. E2E encryption would be that the servers get an encrypted payload that they can see and each intended client are the only parties able to decrypt

[@NicolasBeck77]

What I would give to have been on that podcast about f1.... I couldve finally used my 10 years plus years of obsessed information of F1 cars and motorsport😭😭😭

[@modaksanket]

People still waiting for that detailed f1 video 💀

[@kelRGo]

This was one of the best podcasts you guys had. Informative and opinionated without the constant negative biased. You should keep this line up😅

[@jeanyyang2300]

Love that both David and Marques say "read" receipts differently.

[@AkarshitThakur-pq4wf]

Mind blown by the intro talk

[@BBKMotoLove221]

I watched MotoGP live for the first time and oh boy the noise and the vibrations you feel is something you'll never experience virtually. how does a tiny engine on two wheels go that fast and that loud🔥

[@sp3lllz]

The difference between encrypted in transit (EIT) and end to end encryption (E2EE) is simple but important. E2EE is like this imagine you sent a parcel with FedEx that had a padlock on it the only person that can open the parcel is the recipient at the other end who has the key, EIT would be that you have that same parcel with the lock on it so the FedEx driver couldn't see who it was for but at the depot they have a key they open the padlock on it, see what it is and who its for, and then put a new padlock on it and send it to the recipient who has the key for the new lock. Now replace the FedEx driver with the cell service and the FedEx depot with the RCS server so essentially if the RCS message is only EIT no one can sniff that data and intercept it while its on the way to the server but the server can see every message that's sent and what it says who sent it and to who and when. But E2EE all the server sees at most is who sent the message and to who and when but they have no idea what was in that message.

[@price.gaines]

I’m so happy that you’re all into F1 now. Took you long enough of Andrew’s convincing

[@pktunder100]

All the ranges mentioned in the polestar section refers to WLTP range, not EPA I think. The only EPA range of 400 and over is just Model S, Lucid, and maybe Max Pack R1T?

[@192venom]

Marques blushing by chat gpt had me rolling 😂

[@thegeniusfool]

It’s amazing how well Thing One and Thing Two have adopted the speech patterns of their master.

[@vretamal]

what an intro ahahaha love the drama 😂

[@antonshynkaretskyi4077]

C'mon, guys, you're discussing OpenAI half of the podcast, and you're saying things like "I can't figure out the difference between end-to-end encryption versus encryption in transit" or "I don't know what reinstate in principal means". What the hell?! JUST ASK THE CHATGPT. It explains these things perfectly.

[@sullivan816]

That intro! 🔥

[@djcarbontt]

Marques as the anger AI translation for the OpenAI story is priceless.

[@harmvzon]

The content on the sphere is 60 hz. Usually LED itself is 60hz as well.