Are Super Trainers WORTH the $200+? Should Shoes Have NO Outsole? Super Shoes for 5Ks? | Buy or Sell

Chapters
0:00 - Intro
2:50 - Plyometric training will help train for the marathon distance
11:03 - Supertrainers that cost over $200
16:24 - Supertrainers are worth it for new runners
21:06 - Youth racing in Vaporflys
24:50 - Regular super shoes are better at short distance races than specific 5K/10K shoes
30:53 - Trainers without outsoles
34:47 - Run slow to run fast
44:54 - Post-race beer
50:04 - Minimalist footwear is a dying breed
54:48 - Wrap-up
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We are a group of physical therapists and runners interested in the art and science of running shoes. Learn more by visiting doctorsofrunning.com

[@rpgeraltofrivia4626]

expensive trainer shoes = one of the few manifestations of retail therapy for men

[@kylestephens9593]

Minimalist footwear won't ever die, as you've said: there will always be customers for those, but low (not barefoot) stack height is dieing, if not dead. I'm talking good running shoes from 10mm-20mm stack. You really have to dig deep to find offerings in that range.

[@JDeezle21]

Puma Liberate Nitro v1

[@jefreywith1f924]

Topo Cyclone 2, Altra Escalante 4, Brooks Hyperion, Asics Noosa Tri 15, Adidas Adios 8, Saucony Kinvara 13

[@kylestephens9593]

@@jefreywith1f924 All these are more than 20mm: Topo Cyclone 2 is 23mm-28mm, Altra Escalante 4 is 24mm, Hyperion is 20-28, Noosa is 22mm-30mm, Adios 8 20-28 and Kinvara 13 is 28.5 at the heel.

[@kylestephens9593]

@@JDeezle21 It's 18mm forefoot with 28mm at the heel, tho. I said 20mm at most.

[@JDeezle21]

@@kylestephens9593 the mid foot stack is what matters on low drop shoes and 18m is less then 20m. On low stack shoes most runners don't heel strike. All my low drop runners I'm doing workouts on track or recovery jogs in Altras.

[@ShoeFinderMan]

This is so entertaining ❤

[@sofiamoschi1977]

Thanks guys, this has been entertaining and interesting! About the beer-after-running thing: i really don't like it, but a lot of my running friends just can't wait for it during the last km of a race. Also, here the post-run-beer is often free, especially in trail races, so.. 🤣

[@Cosmeticulous]

Running specialty store manager here 🙋‍♀️ Will Altra and Topo overtake Brooks or Hoka? No. But we sell several every day- there’s definitely a market for them, whether for running, walking, standing or gym work. We get *a lot* of comments on how every shoe has become so cushioned (I think any running store employee would nod in agreement here- “Look at how thick the heel is!”) There are plenty of people looking for shoes with a more “normal” look, without 44mm of foam under them. As much as influencers complain about shoes like the Brooks Ghost being too boring and stuck in the past, there’s a reason it sells well.

[@i.p2088]

I see in the US kids 10 year old running and training in Vaporfly and Alphafly..

[@DoctorsofRunning]

What Buy/Sell topics should we debate in the future? 🤔

[@chinpoeykhoo6261]

I'm curious if the Kinvara 13 is regarded as minimalist footwear according to the 2024 stack height trend, and whether I can use it as my everyday running shoes for easy miles and building aerobic capacity, or if it could do more harm than good, potentially leading to knee injuries.

[@gladstonebustamante]

Muito obrigado pela ótima conversa, descontraída e muito informativa!

[@Runstrong_Chris]

Would be interesting to hear if you have any research on running with Asthma. I’ve been an asthmatic my whole life and it was pretty bad when I was younger. I’ve gotten myself to so far run 10 miles comfortably and am planning on running a half marathon later this year. I think because there isn’t much i can find on running with asthma it makes me apprehensive when it comes to trying to run as fast as possible and just enjoy being able to do the activity in the first place. I’d love to hear anything you might have on this.

[@TheValonquar]

Recently purchased Cielo X1 20% off very expensive but holy what a shoe. If it motivates me to move and gives me joy during the ride I dont see cost as a barrier. Health is wealth 😂

[@kylestephens9593]

well, i'm motivated to train because i wanna get good age placing. joy during ride gets old pretty fast: after one or two long runs it feels a normal shoe, no matter how expensive and/or gimmicky is

[@tkwasik]

​@@kylestephens9593don't agree

[@tkwasik]

And that's what is the only factor for so called super trainers- wow factor for runner

[@DoctorsofRunning]

Buy or Sell: Regular super shoes are better at short distance races than specific 5K/10K shoes?

[@Crose46]

This one’s good Personally it doesn’t matter to me as long as the weight is low

[@wordsovsean8905]

Regarding the lack of outsole rubber, the only shoe I can reference is the Kinvara Pro. I find it to be the smoothest transitioning (heel to toe) shoe I've ever run in. I've done about 140km in them in around 3 weeks and the wear is very minimal. There's just some scuffing or abrasion of the foam. The grip has been great too. I also have the speed 4 and on surfaces like painted driveways (a major hazard on my area) and road markings in the wet, the Kinvara Pro is far superior.

[@macfin4862]

Thank you for this! Hoping to buy some kinvara pro's tomorrow

[@aidanhanley4412]

Can you make an episode talking about victory carbon fiber insoles? I’ve seen so much about them recently and am not really buying into it

[@macfin4862]

Ive bee considering some barrfoot shoes just to wear for some walks or a few afternoons a week. The vapor glove 6 from merrell is very cheap and im wondering if wearing thrm occasionally will strengthen my feet

[@PaulioNZ]

With the post run beer question, what are you guys opinions on beers after a group training run, not a race?

[@PaulioNZ]

Coming mainly from the social aspect of being with your training buddies, but also a small thought of the nutrition side (but not so much)

[@macfin4862]

Isnt the average persons zone 2 pace pretty close to their marathon pace for runs sub 25km?

[@largeeddie]

I'm a sell on "Run slow to run fast," precisely because you had to go through that business of, "What I mean by it is..." As a five-word bumper sticker slogan, it's confusing and often objectively wrong as it gets used. I very much agree about having a range of paces and doing each run at the proper intensity. But there are runners who practice it literally, who never run above threshold and keep getting slower, and try to fight it by increasing their volume of easy running and making their long slow runs longer. OTOH, there are recreational runners who blow up after about an hour in every half marathon or long run because even their slowest steady pace is above zone 2. They would benefit from learning to run more slowly--it's a specific motor skill--and spending lots of time at the lowest heart rate they can manage in order to build aerobic capacity. I don't think that saying helps anyone who doesn't already know a lot more about it.

[@gabrielraileanu8905]

I think that Superblast is a Fantastic shoe, worth its money. I used it for racing - got a 1:28 half marathon, its perfect for training, fast intervals, walking, etc Its really a super shoe.

[@dbo4506]

One of the worst shoes I’ve brought. In no way does it work for me. Especially not for anything tempo and above. It’s at best a slow run shoe for me. Even then it’s garbage imo. Triumph 20 is half the price and it is a better shoe across the board. Superblast is a hype job shoe. Marketing at its finest.

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

35:00 Using generalized training methods for peak performance is pointless. General rule of thumbs is usually good advice, but if you want to maximize performance, you can't just follow generalized approach. It all depends on what type of athlete (age, sex, athletic ability, fitness) you are dealing with. 80/20 only works for amateur athletes when you get to high level athletes or even seasoned runners, 80/20 doesn't always apply. In order to make breakthrough or get out of plateaus, you need to use more extreme and/or unorthodox training methodologies. Human beings are optimized for routine and able to adopt to different stimulus. Too keep improving, you need to change the stimulus from time to time. There's not such thing are "one method that rules them all"

[@jefreywith1f924]

Newton has just launched a super shoe called the CF Carbon Racer. Since you're the only youtubers who are even aware that Newton exists as a running brand, can you please review this shoe. I'm pretty sure no one else will.

[@DoctorsofRunning]

We really want to!!!

[@Trailrunner1978]

I would have been happy with one supertrainer , one trail option and one plated. Endo Speed-S Lab Pulsar- Vaporfly. Instead I have bought all these dreadful shoes.

[@morrisrehn4653]

Will supertrainer running shoes help prolong or reduce stress on the body 🤔🤔

[@arturofernandez9714]

Big/giant no to paying $200+ for super trainers.

[@aSkibidiRunner]

Hoka has so many super shoes now 😥

[@user-sx8rv5pz7u]

But bad durability ...

[@aSkibidiRunner]

@@user-sx8rv5pz7u bro really just liked his own comment 💀

[@tkwasik]

So called super trainer category is kind of funny - most companies are just jumping on the trend and as a result we have tone of bricks with all that so called "high end technology" at extremely high price for a brick - but yes couple seems be very good addition to rotation even at that prices - but most not worth to get at even hige sale - just mine opinion

[@morrisrehn4653]

Wide toe box zero drop or barefoot running shoes cause more stress fractures

[@jimjurek7911]

Don't run in them, but just wear them casually. Passive exercise and such low hanging fruit to increase foot strength and become a more resilient runner... gonna come back big in the coming years.

[@cannibalmanimal2336]

How do any of those things contribute more to stress than how we run? How we interact w the ground?

[@jefreywith1f924]

I don't know about that! I have a torn ACL, LCL, and Bakers Cyst in one leg. Torn Meniscus in both knees. When I run in low stack 0 drop shoes, I feel like Forrest Gump when he loses his leg braces when he was running from a bunch of bullies. If you don't believe me, watch the Barefoot Motivator and listen to his story.

[@morrisrehn4653]

Thanks I will check it out

[@DoctorsofRunning]

Buy or Sell?: Trainers without outsoles

[@Crose46]

Sell

[@runnin3216]

Sell. I stopped wearing the Kinvara long ago because I would absolutely destroy those shoes. By 200 miles they would be angled outward as I wore away the lateral forefoot.

[@edwinduisburg8138]

Super Trainers are myth that being sold by the brands because regardless of the price you are not getting a 'Super Shoe' which ever brand you choose. On top of that, previous racing shoes like Deviate Nitro Elite now being labeled as 'Super Shoe' or 'Super Trainer' which tells you there is no clear description for these phantom shoes. If the future is going to be like, Racing shoes: Adidas Adios Pro Evo ( Shoes that barely have durability), Super Shoes aka Super Trainers: Superblast (Shoes that overpriced for daily use) we are going to have problems for non-elite runners.

[@bensonvong]

I mean with all category of products, there will always be ones at the high end for the people with higher disposable income. People buy Porsches and Ferraris. Are they the best bang for buck, absolutely not. But some people still want to buy them. Doesn’t mean the average normal daily trainers won’t exist. That will still be the core market.

[@DoctorsofRunning]

Buy or Sell?: Super Trainers that cost over $200

[@Crose46]

Sell, superblast is the cutoff 😂

[@runnin3216]

Haven't tried the Superblast, but the Prime X was worth it as I have over 750 miles on them (skeptical of the 2 with the change in outsole rubber). Otherwise, I don't think any of those shoes are worth $200+. I can get 350 miles out of Atreyu's The Artist/Race Model, so they better last longer at those prices.

[@jimjurek7911]

Sell... don't need much cushion if you're actually running properly easy and aerobic. We have an endemic of aerobically deficient runners with weak feet...

[@morrisrehn4653]

Doesn’t running keep your bones strong so add pylometrics to my routine 😮😮

[@dbo4506]

Not for me. I hate superblast. For me triumph 20 are a million times better for everything.

[@casual.runner]

good content but extremely difficult to listen to when you folks are talking over each other

[@DoctorsofRunning]

I knew someone was going to say this. -Matt