Arguing Against Sam Seder's Take On Gun Ownership

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#samseder #majorityreport

[@friendlyG771]

I'm glad leftists can politely disagree on this, but the way America is going, I can't blame people for getting spooked.

[@God_gundam36]

Some leftists

[@axtondragunov1784]

My father went from cringy lib gun policy to basically leftist Rambo both he and I conceal carry and we have gotten to know our neighbors and he owns many fancy guns

[@friendlyG771]

@@axtondragunov1784 Well I don't like the NRA XD But I agree with getting to know your neighbors.

[@axtondragunov1784]

@@friendlyG771 I meant that he is now extremely pro gun

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Fear has been used by the gun lobby for decades, this is no exception. The only change is that otherwise sane left-wingers are falling for it.

[@Tarumarugan]

I’m going feral day one if society collapses. The water will still be running, the power’s still on, but I’m doing cannibalism with mad max face paint as soon as phones stop working.

[@kingskellyhands2318]

Yo let's start up a "hypothetical" gang once the end of days pops off and laws are no more. I'll be the chef. I've read from some tribal accounts that human meat pairs well with pineapple. ;) lol!

[@Tarumarugan]

@@kingskellyhands2318 let’s get it 😈.

[@kingskellyhands2318]

@KZbin Channel Maybe somewhat but that guy had some urges that even in the apocalypse I wouldn't take part in, if you know what I mean. I'd just be bbqing rich folk with the homies. ;) lol

[@lukeferguson3405]

@@Tarumarugan I know this comment is a year old, but that sounds like a Beard Meats Food reference . . .

[@firerunner35624]

Let's consolidate all of our smaller arguments on guns, abortion, etc, into a unified protest against money in politics. Then the guns and abortion debates will be less of an uphill battle.

[@LinkRocks]

Or we could do it all at once. I agree it all starts with getting money out of politics, but it doesn't mean we should stop talking about/fighting for other things.

[@lonelyone69]

Hah the left, unified. You have to be joking. You already know it's a bad sign when most socialists have turned their backs on soc Dems nevermind what's been happening inside the socialist movement.

[@marius1733]

The Problem is that Money is already in Politics. Zhe Supreme Court needs to rule on it and who knows if they get money

[@austinhernandez2716]

That would require abolishing capitalism really.

[@aaronpolichar7936]

@@austinhernandez2716 would it? Do other capitalist countries have problems with money in electoral politics to the same degree that the US does? If not, it seems like you could make progress on that front even in a capitalist system.

[@KizerKat]

Well we as leftists need to regulate this militia well, because as someone whos lives in the rural area north of Portland, I can tell you, Its happening here. If you are a marginalized person in a hot zone, at the very least, have a plan.

[@jarrettlowery2802]

@KZbin Channel you think Anchorage would be any better?

[@redblankie1219]

The problem with you leftists is this, y'all loooove guns until y'all wanna ban them all. While us conservatives live by a simple ideology: leave me be I'll leave you be

[@lobete]

Hey, it's my question. I still don't know how much I am convinced either way on this topic, but hope everyone at least internalizes the arguements against ownership seriously enough for taking safety precautions.

[@morganangel340]

numbers don't lie... US... lots of guns, lots of gun violence, EU less guns, less gun violence. Case close, end of discussion. Every other argument is dumb and R-T-ED. Same movies, same music, same everything, EXCEPT the F-king GUNS.

[@fearsoffailure9258]

Gun safety isn’t taught well enough. People need to know how guns work people need to know how to maintain and practice for self defense, in modern day America. Gun safety and gun rights are severely important to democracy. Your guns will give you more rights in America than a vote will. Take care of yourself and family.

[@LinkRocks]

@@fearsoffailure9258 That's a goofy way of defending guns. Just say you like guns and leave it at that, no need to try to make yourself appear smarter than the rest on the topic.

[@Vontux]

Research the Rwandan genocide and the warning signs that would crop up before killings started in the Bosnian civil war "How Civil Wars Start and How to Stop Them" is a good source for this.

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@LinkRocks Jesus christ. Some lefties really do turn into ideologues when it comes to guns. Man, at least try to engage with the point being made rather than going directly to ad homs. Save that shit for Republicans.

[@GigasGMX]

Arguing about gun ownership is pointless, because it is logistically impossible to get the semiautomatic firearm genie back in the bottle in this country.

[@amrahmed7856]

I call bullshit.

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

@@amrahmed7856 [3d printing intensifies] Also y'know more guns than people, conservative state supreme court judges that will call any federal ban unconstitutional, will allow guns no matter what, and so on

[@Leadlight280]

@@amrahmed7856 The more technology becomes accesible to the public, the harder for the government to control it, 3d printed firearms is our reality.

[@katy2176-p3m]

@@Leadlight280 bs. Most shooters are not using 3d printed guns. Try to stick to reality here

[@Leadlight280]

@@katy2176-p3m Yeah because we still have the 2A. Im not saying half of guns are printed right now, just that if the government gets cocky, the criminals too. Is so easy to find 3d printed gun blueprints online right now, imagine in 5 years.

[@clairebun]

Would love to see a talk with Sam one of these days

[@cosmosofinfinity]

Sam takes calls from anybody, Vaush takes calls from anybody, I'm surprised isn't happened already

[@jrock71]

Sam takes phone calls

[@tyronesquiers8699]

I'm bummed it hasn't happened. Sam is the goat liberal vaush is just enough cynicism.

[@watamatafoyu]

@@jrock71 Vaush needs to call

[@AndroidCovenant]

Vaush's neighbors need to get to know HIM, and bake HIM some cookies. Not the other way around, Mr. Chatter

[@SebastianBean]

y?

[@AndroidCovenant]

​@@SebastianBean Because he has 9 guns and he is a one man army chad warrior soldier fighter

[@WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer]

@@AndroidCovenant (Neighbors play Re Zero) Vaush: I need to leave immediately before I do something to myself

[@ASolidSnack]

I don't feel like Vaush actually made any arguments here...? The only thing he said was that Sam's comparison was bad, not that his overall argument was wrong. He even watched a ThreeArrows video right after this that argued the Jews having guns in Germany wouldn't have done anything meaningful to help them.

[@gndize]

ye he just really likes his guns

[@lobete]

Well his arguement was that guns have poor outcomes in home defense because of conditions that wouldn't exist in a civil unrest example. Idk his much I buy that, but it was an arguement.

[@BigaloMax]

To be SLIGHTLY fair his broader argument is about preparing for the worst . The jews weren't just disarmed they where sold out by there communities , something that you might avoid by as he said getting to know your neighbors and making sure they like you.

[@ruefullysage]

that 3 arrows video was about jews fighting against the German government, not random civilians who might ride through their neighborhood looking for victims. also i don't see how you can say he didn't argue against the overall argument when the argument was rooted in that false comparison.

[@Jenaxu]

And he doesn't even make Sam's comparison look bad. A home invasion is unlikely but how is collective neighbourhood defense against an armed facist militia any more likely?? It 1000% is just him liking guns and then working backwards to justify why. If we've reached the point of guerilla civil war then the situation has already completely collapsed regardless and the marginal increase in survival chance of having a gun is probably about the same as shooting a home invader.

[@edmundnagel9492]

Sam's point is that if there is a gun in your home, someone is more likely to die to a gun. That's true. It doesn't matter if you don't like that stat. It's a STAT. You tried to pivot to something about home invasions but that's not his point.

[@BH-fi1sb]

those damn facts.😁

[@DarkHunter047]

I don't think that his point about how you will know when the fascists will come to get you and others isn't really good to be honest, also. But if owning a gun gives you peace of mind then I guess go for it.

[@Brandon-bc1fz]

But he addressed that... he said he agrees that having a gun in your home increases the likelihood of homicide or suicide.

[@odst123451]

Sam’s point is Fallacious. It’s hand germane in room argument. Yea, having a gun in your house increases the chances of you dying from said gun. You can go your whole life without said gun killing anything. Sam is using a fear tactic, it’s pathetic.

[@RaitoYagami88]

@@odst123451 Outrageous argument you're making there. You can be a chain smoker your whole life and not get lung cancer. Doesn't mean cigarettes aren't harmful.

[@Vontux]

Sam needs to read "How Civil Wars Start and how to Stop Them", there are definitely warning signs before violence breaks out.

[@TheMahayanist]

If a civil war doesn't break out in the next two decades, it's unlikely to break out. Right wingers are old dying and stupid. Won't last much longer.

[@WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer]

What is more likely to cause death in a house: a gun in the house or Re Zero playing? Vaush: Re Zero

[@unknownglitch7027]

vaush likes cp

[@the-lag-gamerita5446]

@@unknownglitch7027 no,no he does not.

[@EmpireGamingWynter]

Its so mad to me as a non-American seeing debates like this that we just never have to think about. America is fucking mental to us looking from the outside in. The worst right wingers do here is drop the f-slur or the t-slur to marginalised groups.

[@litkeys3497]

Sam's assuming the fascists would be attacking individually as opposed to as a mob or militia. History has shown that an armed populace can locally defeat a fascist uprising or coup.

[@coco_rthritis6462]

Idk. I feel like I kinda understand both sides. I do have mental health issues so having a gun is kinda questionable, but having one would also make me feel safer cause I literally have paranoia so idc if a fascist uprising happens or not (I can almost garuntee it will) it would make me feel more secure. I live in rural Oklahoma so if shit goes down I'm dead anyways may as well go out fighting. I personally don't really like guns all that much but I can see why people would want them in their homes. But I feel like with this issue people just completely dismiss the opposing sides arguments, both ways. I get why though since mass shootings happen like every fucking day in this hell hole, obviously people are going to reinforce their opinion on the matter.

[@KitLecleir]

Call in and argue against him live.

[@danielmikula1375]

Talk of roaming red hats reminds me of the days after Trump was elected in 2016, my neighborhood is a majority Hispanic suburb in Houston. We had small processions of pickups waving Trump flags cheering and hooting at the houses as they passed. Never saw that before on my life.

[@Cyrinil142]

Ah, yet another example of Sam Seder just stating well known statistical facts and just being all around accurate. Also another example of Vaush pivoting to talk about something else when somebody makes a good gun point. Vaush, I get that you like your toys but how long's it going to take before we just cop to all the post-hoc reasoning and just accept that this is like your take on vegetarianism. Nobody really takes much Issue when Vaush is like "yeah, vegetarians are just right but it's not a big enough priority for me." Or even better; call in to the Majority Report and hash it out with Sam Seder.

[@Crawver]

I think it really is a difference of perspective and priorities here. Sam is right, having a gun in the house does significantly increase the chance of someone who lives in your house dying. It is a bad self defence mechanism for home protection. However, that's not what Vaush is advocating for. It isn't about home protection, but fascist resistance. Individually, having the gun probably does put you personally in a statistically worse position, but if all lefties have guns, it does make the fascist takeover that much less likely, and far easier to fight back against. The two seem to be arguing similar, but distinctly different positions. The reason why it's not as clear is because the argument comes up as gun ownership first, as opposed to it being an arguement about methods to achieve goals, of which one is gun ownership. I do side more with Sam on this one, but I certainly do get Vaush's argument, and can't bring myself to disagree with anyone who does side more with him on it.

[@amrahmed7856]

@@Crawver You're still taking a pro gun stance, but unlike Republicans who advocate for it on the basis of resisting government tyranny, it's resisting a potential fascist uprising. Pretty much identical arguments and the same outcome.

[@whysocurious7366]

On one hand: Yes owning a gun makes you more likely to shoot yourself/others. But on the other hand: If trumpists are driving around your town in a pickup (like they were during BLM) looking for trouble, why not have trouble ready for them? Do you want them to succeed?:/

[@0witw047]

@@Crawver wodespread leftist gun ownership would neither make a fascist takeover less likely or help us push against it more. Are you basing this claim off of any kind of data even?

[@jrock71]

@@whysocurious7366 he actually agreed with Sam but went off on some tangent ...debatelords agree yet disagree

[@nohbuddy1]

I have never felt safe around anyone with a gun even if they agree with my politics

[@vanquish421]

Sounds like a you thing.

[@parrot998]

That's okay. I've never felt safe around full pacifists. Just something to overcome.

[@nohbuddy1]

@@parrot998 Pacifists can't kill scores of people in 2 minutes with no weapon. Fuck off

[@kingskellyhands2318]

Pacifism is a tool of the state. Turn your check and pay your taxes unto Caesar. Lay down in the road while your at it and cushion the marching boots of fascism, your hippy attitude is why we are running of rights to take.

[@aaronpolichar7936]

@@vanquish421 so what?

[@ianking7511]

I think you could probably take a closer look at the statistics on gun deaths. The usual 'gun ownership raises your chances of suffering a gunshot' line is pretty inevitable, people rarely drown in a desert, but I suspect the effect may be vastly smaller in some circumstances than others. Unfortunately getting to know your neighbours isn't something you can do unilaterally.

[@DarkHunter047]

You can start by greeting them every time you see them and work from there. Even if they aren't much of sociable types this could make you in "the cool person that i should, maybe, try to know better". The line "gun ownership raises your chances of suffering a gunshot" is symply a consequence of gun acidents not happening (mostly) with someone that does not have them. Even if your trained in using them can still happen. It is KINDA of a matter of when will happen at that point. You can be one of luck ones that the when is "100 years from now" or something. Wanting or not, guns are hazards, more so than, but not so different from, cars. The thing is that guns could only, maybe, be useful to you in the scenario that Vaush uses. So if you believe that scenario is worth preparing to, then prepare but me mindful of the risks your puting yourself in.

[@pedrosaraiva]

I think Sam is right. Like yeah, you _might_ be able to drive off a fascist rally but that’s so less likely to happen than someone else getting hurt with the house gun.

[@jasonlara1943]

not really when you have the firearms stored in a safe.

[@pedrosaraiva]

@@jasonlara1943 sure but… that’s an _if_ that does a lotta work here. What do you suggest? Only people with safes can have guns? “Buy a gun and get a safe for 50%” ?

[@aecnqewimnazxclwdxl]

You misunderstand Sam's argument. You have to ask yourself: Are the risks associated with gun ownership worth the hypothetical scenario where you successfully Rambo your way through (a) home invasion, or (b) marauding fascists? I think what Sam is saying is, no matter the circumstances (surprise versus foreseeable, etc.), both _a_ and _b_ are still unlikely and do not offset the very real risks a gun poses to your family. Want to prep for the apocalypse? Get to know your neighbors. Build strong relationships.

[@hegelbot]

I hate to argue with gun statistics, but I also see how people misuse guns in their home. Lock it up, take it out for specific purposes, remove it from the home if people have mental health issues or the potential for domestic violence.

[@aecnqewimnazxclwdxl]

@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 You have to keep in mind that those gun statistics are based on all the people who think, "Well, I'm different! I'm not depressed! I know how to safely secure a gun! I know how to handle a firearm!" Not one person who buys a gun thinks they're at even average risk; in our own minds, we're all special.

[@icedcoffee8561]

Exactly what i wanted to comment

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

So in the event that either of those happen, do we just resign to dying together?

[@redblankie1219]

It's unlikely you'll ever be robbed or in a mass shooting, but we still carry firearms JUST in case. I carry mine because sketchy people may show up while I'm at work. When I'm at home, I have bigger guns Incase a random gang, crackhead, or foreign army ever shows up. Rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Plus shooting is fun. I say this as a conservative

[@Sorenzo]

I think Sam is generally right - Even if you say leftists should get guns just in case of a RW overthrow/uprising, some people are gonna end up carrying or using the guns when they shouldn't, even if they're in your esteemed audience. I'm all for leftist gun clubs, but individual ownership is just a bad idea. And I don't think we're getting to the point of having to snipe armed invaders from our rooftops any time soon. And if we do, it's not gonna be hard to find a gun at that point. You think the Right will close down gun stores shortly before their goons start going door-to-door?

[@creaturecore13]

How is a home invasion unlikely? It happens over 1 million times a year in the US. Acting like chances of it happening is almost non existent is fallacious.

[@aaronmudd5064]

I sympathize with the caller. If all the crazy right wingers have guns, can you really afford to be without one?

[@brandonellis8111]

The caller was a black guy in a obviously white majority neighborhood. I'm a black guy with multiple guns and I know many more black people with guns. Black people been having guns in this country since muskets.

[@watamatafoyu]

#1 NRA argument nowadays

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

@@watamatafoyu except it's them we should be protecting ourselves from, ironically.

[@watamatafoyu]

@@MiketheNerdRanger Even Ana Kasparian now just just blatantly tells the Young Turks audience, get a gun if you wanna protect yourselves from right-wingers saying they want to shoot left-wingers. That's just where it's going now. Big ol' shootout between liberals and conservatives. Fucking stupid country

[@Shtoops]

I entirely agree with arming ourselves (in golf) but I also disagree with increased amounts of personal gun ownership. Owning a gun yourself just flat out does make it easier for you or someone you live with to die. Rather, what I think we should be doing, is forming community gun ownership groups where the collective members store their guns in a secure cache. This way, people are protected from suicide or accidental death, while the community also has a way to defend itself. It's basically what happened during the beginning of the Revolutionary War. Citizens began stockpiling weapons as a group. I think this is inarguably a better method of defense than personal ownership.

[@parrot998]

Congrats for the most sane take here! My goddess we have a problem..

[@marciamakesmusic]

Did you also know that people who own cars are more likely to die in a car crash? Of course having regular access to something dangerous means you're more likely to die from it. This isn't an argument against gun ownership.

[@lopoa126]

@@marciamakesmusic You seem to be confusing suicide with something that actually has a daily use. Guns sole purpose is murder. Good lord. Your argument has been destroyed over and over.

[@lopoa126]

A well-regulated militia sounds good. Glad we have that in the Constitution (even if some people want to ignore that very important part). Who has access to this secure cache? Possibly someone wanting to hurt themselves?

[@parrot998]

@@lopoa126 easy answer: Require multiple people to open it.

[@eman22017]

Honestly this is an issue where I stand more with Sam than Vaush. Still love both though.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

It's one of Vaush's blind spots.

[@aldenkahl8703]

Okay liberals

[@juvedoo99]

Sam does have experience on his side. For as much good as Vaush does, he does still have the blind spots that being young brings along. The difference is that Vaush is introspective.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Sam has very little experience with firearms more than Vaush, for one I don’t think sam even owns a gun or has ever even held one. Second, this idea that having a gun in the house makes you more likely to die by it is the same logic as, “if you have a pool your chances of drowning in it just went up 90% SO FUCKING WHAT... We have red flag laws to flag people with mental illness and or suicide risks we can use red flag background checks to stop people with domestic abuse and violent criminal history form accusing legal guns etc etc there are solutions that plenty of europeans and other countries have adopted that have been very successful I find it pandering that a white liberal like sam seder and his fellow middle class panel that live in well protected and policed gated suburbs is telling people of color and gays and marginalized people that they should remain unarmed sheep for the slaughter because he and his milktoast lib friends who’ve never been threatened and or ever had a reason to hold a gun tell them how bad guns are Every historic example we have shows that armed rebel gorups and or remittance against fascists is one of the few ways that communities and people under those regimes survive and or are not totally at the mercy of their conquerers or abusers Again imagine a white middle class lib like sam chastising people of color and or gays and etc for trying to get guns even as the right wing millet’s or mob drag them from their Holmes and execute them in the streets.

[@eyle6839]

@@juvedoo99 i think eventually vaush will be moved on this point, just give it time

[@moselaw2]

Wait so having a gun for a possible home invader is dumb because its unlikely but having it for a fascist uprising makes sense???

[@ruefullysage]

"because it's unlikely to help against a home invader"

[@sandshark2]

Yes. The current events clearly show the probability of a fascist uprising is higher than you, specifically, getting a home invader. America has checked every chronological box for a fascist uprising like germany, but more comparatively Italy. The fact any boxes are checked already is dangerous. Charlottesville, January 6th, the trump presidency as a whole

[@strongbone9471]

@@ruefullysage and it's likely to work against a whole fascist militia?

[@ruefullysage]

@@strongbone9471 the way vaush has always framed it is if some guys on pick up trucks roll through with guns. technically a fascist militia but let's not overstate them.

[@strongbone9471]

@@sandshark2 a fascist takeover is not happening anytime soon. "America has checked every chronological box for a fascist takeover like germany" we're not Germany. Germany's material conditions was primed for a fascist takeover. With them losing a war, being in serious debt, and them entering the great depression, a fascist takeover was inevitable. America is never going to lose a war as badly as Germany. America is never going to be in as serious of a debt as Germany, and while there hasn't been a second great depression yet, we've enter a economic crisis in America in damn near every decade since the 20s and 30s and we haven't had a fascist takeover yet. A fascist takeover could be likely, but until then home invasions are more likely.

[@montauk6]

1:15 - Sam’s expression while Vaush responds: “C’mon son…”

[@jrock71]

Is Vaush turning into Tim Poole

[@slime8177]

We should not be advocating anybody rush to buy guns due to a fear of their neighbors. This seems like it shouldn’t need to be said

[@HailLuca]

You underestimate the amount of hate groups that are armed.

[@slime8177]

@@HailLuca you overestimate the power of extremist right wing militias

[@aldenkahl8703]

@@slime8177 That sounds like an argument to be armed to reduce the power differential

[@WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer]

@@aldenkahl8703 you underestimate how authoritarian our politicians are

[@Vontux]

@@slime8177 the whole "groomer" discourse has me pretty nervous TBH, seems to motivate a lot of borderline violent behavior from folks further away from the far right, starting to be worried about violence from that end of things more than anything tbh. I think when it comes to guns, they are a useful tool but they are not the supreme tool, community connections are the top tool in terms of priority.

[@paulieforsythe4801]

“not all of you can afford 9 guns” is a weird thing to say to the people who fund your ability to own 9 guns.

[@brandonellis8111]

I think vaush was talking to his chat not the NRA.

[@watamatafoyu]

Why's that weird? It was a funny joke. Besides, he'd form a phalanx with you if you were in the area.

[@paulieforsythe4801]

@@watamatafoyu its akin to a preacher telling his congregation “not all of you can afford a private jet like me” when it’s literally the congregations money that paid for the jet.

[@watamatafoyu]

@@paulieforsythe4801 Umm, but people watching his videos like 99% of the time aren't paying him... church sermons don't have automatic ad money you know, and a KZbin channel is not a tax-free charitable religious organization.

[@katyungodly]

Is why I don't donate to any big streamers. Their views in a year alone could fund them having a very comfortable lifestyle for several years.

[@Jessymandias]

these two should have a charity debate!

[@Minimellow]

One thing that has moved me from an anti-gun stance to a moderate pro-gun one is the stories I hear about the Ukraine-Russia war where the Ukranian government is giving arms to civilians who want to volunteer in defending their homes, of regular people sniping from their rooms in high-story apartments. That is an insanely powerful story.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

The “it’ll never happen here” Crowd and debilitating ideology it carries among liberals and leftists is highly alarming given the level of right wing violence, agitation and armament in this modern time

[@_audacity2722]

@@mckenzie.latham91 leftists will get banned just like leftist parties were banned in Ukraine lol

[@0witw047]

@@mckenzie.latham91 what, exactly, do you think will happen here? The US government collapsing and fascist militias roaming about killing minorities? No, with the current state of the world, that won’t ever happen any time soon

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@0witw047 fascist militia’s are already roaming about all the time, hate crimes are ramping up and pretty soon some states will be making it illegal to be gay or trans, as Texas already is promoting criminalizing gay sex and homosexuality what do you think will and or is happening to the people targeted and or being targeted by these attacks and people? There are literally still people who were around from the 50’s and 60’s that can tell you about the lynchings, fire bombings, assaults and straight up violence in the streets we still have people alive who remembrance and were involved with police massacres of protesters for civil rights and who were being slaughtered with the approval and under the nose of right wing governments in these states under Jim crow and beyond... THIS HAS HAPPENED, THIS CAN EASILY HAPPEN AGAIN! again you may be privileged enough in your suburb or community to not notice that. Others however do and are... Second, i can variably see GOP governments in these states at least, turning more of a blind eye to right wing political violence and or passing laws to make it more easier and or less illegal when they do so We have already seen examples of proto-forms of these laws and such trends such as the laws in several right wing states making it easier to ram cars into protesters and the acquittal of the Michigan governor kidnap plot members. Again what you think will happen doesn't matter, anyone who hasn’t got their heads shoved up their ass are seeing a vile and threatening turn in the political and social status of the country and if you don't want to be lambs to the slaughter and or sheared like sheep, grow a pair and start training with guns

[@thepicausno5561]

I feel like Vaush is getting way too defensive about his gun takes. The only argument Sam Sedar made against guns was that owning a gun increases your risk for suicide and Vaush's response was detailing the differences between home invasion and conservative takeover like that had anything to do with the point made. Vaush is really Gun-Brained.

[@reintael4287]

I think he agreed on that point but disagreed with Sam saying that it "is like arming yourself in case of home invasion."

[@sophiatrocentraisin]

The problem with the "home invasion" argument is that even in the case of a home invasion, you won't even have the ability to use your gun. So owning a gun for that purpose only increases your chances of dying because of a gun without protecting you from anything. In the case of a conservative uprising, first of all, this uprising gets more probable every day, and you will see it coming, so you'll have an actual opportunity to use it. In other words, in that case, there is an argument to be made that the benefits of owning a gun outweighs the very real dangers of owning one

[@dmitrystelefona8453]

Im from Ukraine and your point on know your neighbors stands, can confirm.

[@phaerlax]

in this issue Vaush has a conclusion and is constantly looking for arguments to support it

[@RamzalTimble]

He loves guns. He's making an emotional appeal due to his own bias of his hobby/collection. Not that this makes him a demon, but it's a simplistic way of looking at things.

[@Jenaxu]

Yeah, not the only topic where he does this but definitely one of the most obvious.

[@vanquish421]

Under no pretext...

[@waffleandchicken]

No

[@HailLuca]

When you live nice and close to armed hate groups, you take the edge you fucking can.

[@lunaloveless7234]

Someone is more likely to get killed from owning a gun because usually violence happens domestically or intimately. The odds of a home invasion happening are typically pretty slim depending on the area.

[@SFGiantsfan9797]

Plenty of good gun owner owned guns for over 40 years and never committed a crime and died of old age

[@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei]

​@@SFGiantsfan9797 There are also people who smoke all their live and die with 90. Doesn't change anything about statistical probabilities.

[@vanquish421]

I don't bet on odds, I bet on stakes.

[@parrot998]

@@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei It also doesn't change the fact that there is a lack of research on gun violence, because the govt is literally not allowed to fund such research. We know there is a connection, but presuming causality where there is merely established corrolation is foolish... Is it not possible that a big part of the statistics is because a lot of those who bring a gun into their house have reason to feel unsafe? That they are scared into buying a gun and then their fears were proven true? Obvs you have your ammosexuals (who don't do proper storage procedures btw since they are insecure showoffs) but I have serious questions about how much they represent actual gun ownership as a whole vs being a loud minority. But that's not strictly relevant. The point is, if most people only get a gun if they feel like they need it... Then of course there are going to be more incidents of violence in households with a gun. I think there's more nuance here than it simply being all escalated domestic disputes...

[@SFGiantsfan9797]

@@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei no thanks leave guns alone. Until I see Medicare for all, more mental health programs, end the drug war and stop treating guns like a manhood then I’ll consider it but until then kindly fuck off my lawn

[@BillClay88]

It is crazy how many ppl off themselves compared to how much a gun will save your life.

[@BillClay88]

A lot of ppl take mental health serious, but when it's comes to a criminal event; no one cares about mental health. I would assume most of us have experienced it or know ppl who are struggling with it. So, yes, mental health is one of biggest threats facing our country. Nothing to be embarrassed about .. that's a huge problem too

[@MrBurns0618]

1:02 when Sam said that my mind had a complete malfunction. Guns don’t protect you from home invaders?? Wow, this guy really must live a guarded life.

[@christopherstathis4419]

Both don't mention domestic disputes,

[@hollytastic]

I’m in a conservative (cool with fascism) neighborhood so probably not going to find any solidarity here. They will just come for me.

[@verager2493]

One of the reasons people own guns is because they're in danger. So of course they're going to get hurt more. Gun culture is also predominantly right wing and not safety focused right now. It's important to actually look at what the numbers mean

[@FelisImpurrator]

Also, people commit suicide because they have serious untreated mental health issues, which are largely produced by the systematic abuse of conservative culture. You know what else correlates to higher rates of suicide? Living near train tracks with mental health issues. Having access to prescription drugs with mental health issues those drugs aren't mitigating. Owning a car. A stove. A gun is only the most convenient way by which existing problems manifest.

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

>not safety focused I'm actually curious as to how. Maybe its just because my gun education started with taking a class but I'm pretty sure people who shoot take firearm safety pretty seriously.

[@verager2493]

@@herec0mestheCh33f You were very lucky to go through that. For many, guns are status symbols and substitutes for masculinity, and classes are not required. Especially harmful, though, is the toxic masculinity. Suicidality is perceived as personal weakness in many right wing circles, and this has an incredible chilling effect on getting help if you need it, or navigating the extremely complicated and dangerous process of owning a gun while having those thoughts. Hell, choosing not to have a gun because you're afraid you'll kill yourself and telling anyone is likely to get you laughed at. So it's often not talked about. Thinking about getting rid of your guns for the same reasons can often produce the same results

[@catboynestormakhno2694]

@@herec0mestheCh33f For example how we don't do communal gun libraries just that is a clear sign of the unsafe environment of gun culture

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

@@verager2493 i suppose that makes sense. So you're talking less about the handling of firearms themselves and more how people who aren't stable or confident enough to own a gun are treated.

[@camerongalles8617]

One of the first statistics the guy gives is from a discredited study

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Exactly...

[@malcolmisk00l]

I think vowsh is looking at this from the wrong way. I don’t think Sam and that caller were talking about an organized mob of right wingers ascending on one spot, but more in the case of you living next to an extreme right winger and having yourself armed in the event something with that specific individual happens. You’re right in the fact that good guys with guns don’t save people in mass shooting scenarios, but in a 1 on 1 altercation a weapon can absolutely have it’s intended results consistently

[@hendrix24]

If the shit hits the fan I am completely fucked. My whole neighborhood is fash. I'll be the clandestine saboteur if I live past the first wave.

[@stewiegriffin12341]

Vaush: Having a gun to defend against a mass shooting or a home invasion is silly because of how unlikely they are. I mean… a home invasion or a mass shooting waaay more likely than this hypothetical uprising you describe.

[@justphrank361]

It's amazing to me how this is like the only issue the left can politely disagree on

[@oxkit0katxo413]

A fascist uprising coming to your neighborhood is MUCH less likely than you encountering a home invader. As Sam said, keeping a gun in the home, “just in case” is more likely to endanger you or your family vs some potential threat you MAY encounter at some point. Sorry Vaush but you are the one with the flawed logic here.

[@Takokujin07]

B-But my minority killing fantasy 🥺

[@oxkit0katxo413]

@@PatheticApathetic Well apparently you don’t know this, but in order to actually be prepared for a situation in which you may need to use your gun, you’re PROBABLY gonna want to take it out once in a while to target practice. And you’re PROBABLY gonna want to take it out to clean & maintain it. If you don’t do these things, your gun is not safe to use on anyone & you aren’t safe to touch anyone else’s. Unfortunately, there are too many ways accidents can happen between the moment you open up your gun safe (assuming that’s where it’s stored) to the time you return it.

[@oxkit0katxo413]

@@PatheticApathetic Ummm, and is practicing at a range uncommon? No.

[@oxkit0katxo413]

@@PatheticApathetic Lol. Yeah, nice try.

[@oxkit0katxo413]

@@PatheticApathetic Maybe next time you pull an argument out of your ass, think it through a little.

[@need2burn]

Drownings are more common when a pool or bathtub is part of the house.

[@jimtownsend3910]

I love both these guys. They need to do a show together at some point.

[@lonelyone69]

Why is it whenever guns come up the dumbest points get talked about. You can have guns in America just like pretty much every European country. No one is banned from owning guns in pretty much any European country. You just need a thorough permit to do so. As soon as you outright ban firearms then the only people allowed to have them are specialist cops and real criminals. This occured in Japan throughout the early 2000s and caused a serious shift in organised crime. Here in the UK you are banned from owning a pistol but as long as you have a license you can own a bolt action rifle or semi automatic shotgun with very little requirement. Firearms are cool but you don't need a full firearms collection for you to love firearms. Firearms museums with certified ranges are literal things in heavily regulated countries. The largest collection of small arms and artillery is literally in the UK. The largest collection of tanks also in the UK. Yet there are 6 firearms per 100 people here.

[@FelisImpurrator]

You're goddamn right, and finally, a sane fucking lefty argument that isn't just libby "guns are bad because correlation is causation" shit. People don't seem to realize that they're applying drug war zero tolerance BS to guns. The real solution is to regulate guns with a focus on safety and responsibility, with things like mandatory gun safety training and regular license checks. You get a driver's license to drive a car and have to renew it, and that's a deadly piece of machinery too. There are also other regulations on how to use said deadly machinery. Not really rocket science here. Thank you for bringing up the fact that banning legal guns leaves them in the hands of cops and criminals, which are often the same thing, too. I don't think anyone sane wants a fucking Yakuza situation in the US, except with fascist terrorists... who are literally already in the country committing acts of violence.

[@jacksonashworth150]

Do I think this country would be better off if it had no guns, yes. However when it comes to the gun debate, we're never going to get meaningful gun reform with the politicians we have in office on top of the fact it's a very poor optic choice to go for gun reform. Unfortunately it's just a waste of time when we should be focusing on other issues that we can actually meaningfully affect and change right now.

[@graysonwilson3343]

@Harold P. Blackwood It'd be nice if dem politicians weren't so dumb in gun reform advocacy, like Biden saying just use a shotgun, who needs handguns? And other dumb stuff you hear from gun illiterate people. Like, I think it's fine to want change/reform and not being super knowledgeable about guns, but as a politician should have a baseline understanding of guns and gun culture when advocating for positive change. The right is going to be stubborn either way, but dems being morons only emboldens the right's worst elements.

[@camerongalles8617]

Gun violence is a symptom of many different problems... problem with treating a symptom is you don't cure the real causes.

[@kohai-kun9261]

Idk man. "Its a poor optic choice to gun for gun reform" Is it though? Fairly certain people are fed up with "we've basically tried nothing, and there's nothing else we can do." that we've been getting for decades. You'll never convince conservatives to vote in their own interests on *anything*, and I'd much rather a politician take the approach of "we're going to pass meaningful gun reforms, and anyone who doesn't like that can cry about it. A single mass shooting is too many and we're well past that point now", instead of one who says "we'll never get the conservatives to budge on guns, so let's do nothing about it, and turn our attention towards other issues." Spoilers: conservatives/moderates aren't going to budge on *anything*; so IMO trying to apply pressure where you think they're more likely to budge is an excercise in futility.

[@DarkHunter047]

What is your opinion on putting cops on schools?

[@camerongalles8617]

@@kohai-kun9261 what are the meaningful gun reforms you want? What about the laws you want implemented are going to have a better impact than the THOUSANDS of laws that are already in place. School shootings for example have only happened more and more often as more laws have been added?

[@chillypepperjr]

Vaush, the odds are unlilely mainly becaise people buy a gun and never practice with it, there are myriad videos of people, especially women, defending their homes from invaders successfully with a firearm.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

It'd be even better if they didn't need to defend themselves from armed robbers.

[@chillypepperjr]

@@PlatinumAltaria duh?

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@PlatinumAltaria which is not the world we live in and never will.

[@ADAMNATOR]

Fascist Marauders and Militias in YOUR AREA?? Click here to Arm Yourself for Defense!! I couldn’t get this out of my head after Vaush’s word choice

[@avocadocrumch]

bababooey

[@Almost_a_hero]

opinion accepted

[@skateboardious]

Bababased and bababooey pilled

[@BK201DarkerThanBlack]

I'm more in Sam's camp here. It's not just home ownership that this increased risk factor comes too. The "good guy with a gun" is more likely to be shot if they're African American for example.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

the only black man to ever survive a lynching by white people only did so because he had a gun

[@tylerhackner9731]

I love u both but I stand with Sam

[@vanquish421]

The fascist state has proven it won't protect marginalized groups from fellow fascists. Did you notice that the BLM protests with black protestors open carrying weren't met with police violence, while the unarmed protestors were?

[@aldenkahl8703]

Liberal

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Well no one said you to be smart

[@Sanosukeafo]

I haven't looked at the data in a while but I wonder if this "Having a gun in your house makes you instantly more likely to die" argument is flawed from a selection bias standpoint. Would it not be reasonable to assume that people who live in high crime areas are more likely to own a firearm for home defense than people living in low crime suburbs for example? I think there's more to the picture than this 1 gotcha stat.

[@TheSquareOnes]

Sure, there's also the "people who want to shoot themselves have to get a gun first" demographic. To be fair though, merely having a gun is the bare minimum requirement for gun accidents, I think that's only a few hundred people a year but it is the case that those people would've been fine if they weren't gun owners. Either way it is a really terrible argument though, because it implies some sort of weird demonic agency to guns that warps reality in such a way that results in your demise when that obviously doesn't apply to any scenario making up the data.

[@FelisImpurrator]

Yes, I'd say that's fundamentally correct. Also, correlation not causation applies. People are acting as if the gun's presence is the causal factor. It isn't. The gun is a mediating factor through which a baseline increased risk of homicide or suicide manifests. It's a symptom, and the cause is poor socioeconomic conditions and low access to mental and physical healthcare. I don't know if it's a controversial take, but did you know that people don't tend to want to kill themselves if they're not depressed? And that crime rates go down as quality of life and socioeconomic equity and mobility go up? Shocking, I know.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

I heard that the study that stat came from was debunked and or proven false.

[@qwertyuiop42385]

-accidental discharge -suicide -gun being used on you in an altercation (doesn't have to be a home invasion)

[@Sanosukeafo]

@@qwertyuiop42385 Ya that's the argument. But I don't think that really justifies the claim.

[@QuantumTelephone]

Vaush it's okay to think guns are cool and are also bad

[@aldenkahl8703]

LIBERAL

[@aaronpolichar7936]

Do the benefits of preparing yourself for a possible breakdown of society and roving bands of fascists outweigh the risks of suicide or other risks associated with owning guns?

[@BH-fi1sb]

this is America, there are many right and left propagandists who promote the "apocalypse" thing.

[@downylithe]

yes 🗿

[@DarkHunter047]

I think that this a kinda distorted framing of why people want gun reform. I don't think that stricter gun control doesn't preclude anyone from making preparations for the worst. As you probably know, one of most powerful driving forces for gun control is mass shooting, national tragedies that instill in people abject terror that might provoke them to begin to advocate for puting heavily armed people on places that shouldn't have them like schools or to advocate for cops to be permanently stationed on schools, which can leave to a variety bad outcomes, since cops continue to be cops on schools.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

If you think owning a gun will do anything except get you killed by the fascist mob on sight, you haven't been paying attention.

[@aaronpolichar7936]

@@DarkHunter047 But this discussion was about gun ownership itself, not gun control.

[@TouchscreamPresents]

2:30 kinda like those roof Koreans during the L.A Riots

[@JesusChrist-on-a-motorbike]

I always get to know my neighbors. That’s one of the few good things my boomer parents taught me.

[@gamedude412]

The “community” doesn’t care about left or right if it’s a question of survival. It’s amazing that in a civil war your assumption is a purity test is going to the 1st order of the day. People want peace not pogroms

[@DaviRBify]

In a divisive nation people will turn on their neihborns based on their politics and race just like the Germans did it. Dont undersestimate the WS of USA.

[@PsychoCivic-yw5sp]

Even if it did increase your odds of murder/suicide. So what? Rights are not determined by the utilitarian value of pro/con. Otherwise, freedom of speech/religion and democracy would not be sought after as they tend to cause issues more issues and inefficiency. But we do it and seek it because it's right in principle. It does not justify removing the right simply because, say, cults are allowed to exist. Sam also ignores that guns are a great equalizer weapon for minorities or disabled people who may otherwise struggle to defend themselves at the mercy of the mob/able. Gun ownership can also be great for social democrats/socialists as it can ease the looming thought of authoritarianism by allowing people to have the chance to resist if things get bad. Increasing trust in the government and implementation of social programs. Switzerlands armed neutrality and civilian ownership vs. the US standing armed forces can lower the possibility of engaging in military intervention while retaining a strong defense. Less, "we have a giant army standing around and need to use it" excuse for careless interventionism.

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

You know as someone with a gun whose had struggles with mental health I hate the whole "suicides and homicides are more likely" argument. If someone is suicidal OR homicidal you shouldn't just be like "take the guns, problem solved". The problem with wanting to kill yourself or others is the desire to do so, taking away their instruments for violence doesn't solve the desire. Pro or Anti-Gun, this doesn't fix the problem it just takes away one of their options.

[@HCosta1001]

It bothers me that in non-america countries suicides and homicides are still an issue even without guns. This points to two things: -Yeah taking the guns away does not fix the issue, but also -It definitely decreases the chances for this sort of thing to happen. Public policy is not an individualized solution, it is a sheer and pure probability game. You do Policy X (gun control) not because it will fix an issue, but because it will make the issue better than the alternative of not implementing Policy X. "But what if instead of Policy X we implement Policy Y (mental health based support)?" then you have another judgement to make, maybe Policy Y is better than X, or maybe they work even better together so you implement both. The issue arrives when people start proposing Policy Y exclusively because they live in a country where Policy X is 'not popular'. This is just retarded. If it works and statistically saves people lives, there's absolutely no reason to not do it.

[@oxkit0katxo413]

Less options to hurt yourself or someone else is better than more. And guns are much more lethal than most other methods for both homicides & suicides. But yes, treating mental illness should always be a top priority.

[@OverClocked]

there's data to show it lowers the likelihood and that's a lot easier to do than changing the entirety of our economic or healthcare system to properly take care of the mental health needs of every citizen. nobody that uses the guns increase likelihood argument would ever say no to expanding healthcare services so it's a mute point imo.

[@vanquish421]

@@oxkit0katxo413 Tell that to a 100 lb woman, whose only defense against an attacker who can easily overpower her, is a gun.

[@XMysticHerox]

A gun is the easiest and most accesible option for suicide and it has been extensively proven that people are both more likely to attempt suicide and significantly more likely to actually die if they have easy access to a gun.

[@InTheKno]

There are hundreds of videos on this platform alone of people defending themselves during home invasions, mass shootings, and general CCW situations. Talking about the low likelihood of it happening is dumb as fuck.

[@CODDE117]

Call him on his show god dammit!

[@cuber3603]

Sam Seder, answers call. Vaush: N-word *hangs up*

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

Tactical vowsh strikes again

[@JPH1138]

@@cuber3603 Sam Seder: You're fat

[@StunSeed98]

3:23 "the fact that having a gun in your house increases the likelihood of homicide or suicide does follow" does he not realize that he's just validating Sam's point here?

[@Heinkelly]

Vaush on the Tucker Carlson fear mongering grindset 💪 💪

[@mckenzie.latham91]

yeah never mind January 6th, the attempted pride moth shooting by armed right wingers who planned to attack a pride month, the Kenosha incident with Rittenhouse, hundreds of cases of right wing political violence and militia activity, including right wing gorups being labeled the number one domestic terror group in the country the Michigan governor kidnap plot etc. etc. the multiple mass shootings by right wingers who have claimed they did so based on GOP and right wing talking points and conspiracy theories right, it’s all fear mongering lol pussy.

[@JohnBosson]

Did he just say Damascus Off?

[@scarlettuppenberg940]

Great video

[@Mr.Witness]

How guns made the civil rights movement possible- read it .

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Because America isn't one of the most regressive "developed" countries, compared with countries with fewer guns...

[@Mr.Witness]

@@PlatinumAltaria it isnt. Idk what this useless comment means though but ill take the word of an on the ground civil rights movement activist who interviewed actual people in the south over some random comment need on vaush page anyday. Read the book stop huffing vaush pubic hair.

[@lonelyone69]

My guy they literally just targeted black people from owning guns. Civil rights regressed because they stopped black people owning the firearms. It also looked terrible for the black panthers optically that they now were the media portrayed image of a group steps away from being black separatists.

[@Mr.Witness]

@@lonelyone69 Targeted? Who is they ? Pretty sure gun control legislation targets everyone. The black panthers are clowns, the only thing good about them is they are better than the previous crackheads who ran the original organization. Them and FBA are black separatist in everything but explicit word because thats what the logical conclusion of their philosophy is whether they want to acknowledge it or not. That being said if it wasn’t for gun ownership neither one of the civil rights movements ESPECIALLY the one in 1865 would have happened and it was one of the few rights abolitionists were explicitly fighting for.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@PlatinumAltaria That’s irrelevant, other countries don't compare to the US the same way Germanys development history doesn’t compare to Canada’s fucking stupid point of reasoning.

[@Dr.MikeGranato]

Like we always say - there are pro gun ppl, anti gun ppl, and those who understand firearms. The latter are the only ones who should be legislating it. Unfortunately, very few exist in Congress

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Sure, let's let those most familiar with guns (ie. gun manufacturers and crazy people) be in charge of gun laws! Not those nasty libtards who don't even want to arm teachers!

[@j.c6204]

At this point I do agree with ”Vaush bad”. Ironically I agree with Waush 99 procent But not this one. Hasan is the only leftie I know having the right opinion on this particular matter.Hurts to say.. and Sam offcourse

[@CoffeeAndSmoke23]

I still do not understand why Vaush refers to the US as a democracy

[@jrock71]

I don't get it either

[@bbqseitan7106]

My gun take is a gun take

[@juvedoo99]

I think Vaush is a good example of the overall gun culture in the US and how pervasive it is. I think Sam does a good job of explaining that and making it easy to understand. But it’s hard to break away from that culture when it’s such a fundamental part of the culture. Just because it exists and is even in the constitution itself, it doesn’t make it any less toxic. I personally like guns, their cool, they serve a purpose, but I also understand why they are also a problem.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Ask several of the jewish resistance groups in Germany and Poland during WWII if they felt safer armed or at the mercy of the germans as shivering unarmed sheep.

[@juvedoo99]

@@mckenzie.latham91 I never said to be unarmed. I simply said I understand why guns can be a problem, as they have shown to be… my argument is against gun culture in the US, not guns themselves.

[@jefffitztight5784]

3:10 we would go to work

[@sepulcher8263]

Maybe have him on and debate.

[@frocco7125]

Good take, Vaush

[@VagabondTE]

These scenarios are exactly the same to me, but that's because I don't prescribed to the notion that I need to fire my gun in split seconds. If I can't absolutely guarantee that I have full control of the gun and time to think about what I'm doing with it (still less than 30 seconds) then I'm not going to get the gun. Why the hell would you ever risk giving the threat your own weapon? And for what? to fulfill a .08 sec draw range fantasy? F****** Christ if I don't have 10 seconds to make sure I'm not groggy and have full control then I'm just going to swing.

[@razorsedge64ify]

Its important to have guns but also important to regulate.

[@_audacity2722]

Don't care, didn't ask

[@garlicbreath7259]

Vaush wrong, Vaush wrong.

[@SFGiantsfan9797]

A ccw holder killed the Texas church shooter if I remember too he used a shitty caliber too 357 Sig

[@anthonyrowland9072]

lol how is that a shitty caliber? it's basically 9mm magnum.

[@DwarfElvishDiplomacy]

Intense clickbait on this one

[@jermisinferno]

Vaush is still stuck in some immature larp fantasy on this issue. I really hope he grows out of this. It’s kind of embarrassing.

[@SebastianBean]

truly

[@aldenkahl8703]

Lib

[@raak4070]

Yeah conservatives definitely have no history of mass violence, vaush is just paranoid.

[@randyconrad4155]

I disagree. there are more guns than people in the us and most of them are owned by people on the right. in fact people on the left often don't even know how to use them. as a gun owner, it's ridiculous the prescriptions for gun violence that come from the left because on the whole, the left doesn't understand the problem. this isn't larpy. this is responsible behaviour in a country that is currently, actively, at this very moment being taken over by Christian dominionist fascists. the only fantasy here is people who have had the luxury of peace believing that peace is the normal state of affairs. people that believe democracy is a given and not a fragile experiment. this is legitimately what the framers had in mind when they wrote the second amendment. if you're mentally well enough to, get a gun, get proficient, learn firearms safety and hope you never need to use it. don't larp. don't make being a gun owner your personality. speak softly and carry a big stick.

[@raak4070]

@@randyconrad4155 you could not have said it better

[@AnimeGIFfy]

need more guns in america to solve life

[@mulatso7959]

"You put a gun in your house, someone in your house is most likely to die". P E R I O D.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Saying having a gun in the home means you are more likely to die from a gun is the same as saying if you put a pool in your house, your chances of drowning just went up 90% it’s a trick, it maybe is a true stat but so what? chance is life, there are equal chances that having a car means you are 80% more likely to get into a fatal car wreck so are you going stop driving? etc.etc. it’s manipulative and a clear sign of desperation from the gun challenged who are so afraid of a firearm that they shit their pants the moment they think of it

[@lanceweeda1147]

When you have kids you better make sure your armed for a small chance anything could hurt them.

[@101nemesis]

Vaush being defensive about gun ownership. Who knew. /s

[@vanquish421]

Yeah, those dumb civil rights and such...

[@PlatinumAltaria]

@@vanquish421 Guns are not a civil right.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@PlatinumAltaria The Second Amendment disagrees with that

[@CassieAngelica]

What will America look like in 5 years?

[@ducati4prez]

America

[@Takokujin07]

America but with more starving kids and more guns

[@millennialmongoose3392]

Greek phalanx Roman cohort or legion works too and those form a testudo years of studying for this moment.

[@matthewhartz9235]

Vaush needs to email Sam and have a civil discussion on this. I understand both point of views

[@michaelreherman2873]

The military could stop thee coup with a coup

[@89p26]

I like guns. I think people have a right to guns

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Those are cool feelings, but the facts do not support them.

[@89p26]

@@PlatinumAltaria it's a fact that people have a right to guns

[@PlatinumAltaria]

@@89p26 Source please.

[@89p26]

@@PlatinumAltaria because the people say so

[@PlatinumAltaria]

@@89p26 No they don't, the majority of Americans support gun control.

[@Ghee_Buttersnaps]

How many people have a girlfriend who is so focused on facts about her saying she was utterly innocent of the fact (Autocomplete algo spam)

[@markharrison6498]

I’m more with Sam on this one. Having said that I don’t live in America and my family, being farmers, own plenty of rifles. Couldn’t imagine wanting to own a gun to potentially use against another person

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

Vaush: "given current events, you should get to know your neighbors and coordinate for defense. there might be a time where your neighborhood might need to deal with marauding militia dipshits" Galaxy brained commenters: "larp! Larp! This is larrrrp! Totally the same as buying a gun to defend against home invaders! -implied: it cannot happen here!- "

[@beatleplayer1011]

CALL IN - new age debater vs old school debater