Archery FAQ - Slavic Release vs. Archers Paradox and how to gain Speed?

[@miguelveratraditionalarche9374]

Mr.Armin! as always teaching us with love and passion.🙏 Thank you so much.

[@claudebenet6185]

Thanks for this fifteen minutes of freedom.

[@DerekBartlettBeorn]

2:16 "Look what my bow hand is doing, always goes to the outside" That's why whenever I shoot off either side of my bow, I keep my draw hand still. I don't let it fall back like a lotta archers do, I just open my fingers and let the hand stay still so it doesn't trigger that reflex making my bow arm swing. I just give the bow handle enough slack to do what it needs to, keeping my arm still as possible.

[@sentinelarrow5921]

I am a Fitarco Instructor, in Italy. I agree perfectly with what you said. Personally, I prefer the "classic" shot, therefore with the flip-flop grip, without the use of the ring. Use the ring, a student of mine, fond of oriental bows. Nice video! 😉

[@jamesbariso9507]

Slavic, another way to spend time practicing this "season" Maraming Salamat Armin! Everybody's a bit down but that does not stop you for sharing! All AH disciples, be safe!

[@jacobkim2402]

I love Germans and traditional archery, what a channel!!!!! please continue making more videos

[@DerekBartlettBeorn]

10:36 - 10:49 arrow nock in a pinch grip, shaft slid OVER the bow and string while the fingers remain underneath... dude you just taught me how to speed shoot with the left side of the bow (I don't weave it through anymore 'cause I'd keep jabbing the bow)

[@rustler2222]

Armin! Thank you for your videos! Im new in archery, your chanel helps me! Great job!! ;)

[@Leverguns50]

Thanks taking the time to show us how it’s done

[@robsarchery9679]

I will have to try that.Thanks

[@BlueBearFlutes]

Excellent video as always my friend!

[@SimonWilliamsonhunting]

Thank you. And a very relaxed, easy to listen to, manner of teaching..

[@cprn.]

LOL. I've been shooting for several years as a kid long long time ago. Back then I didn't know I'm using Slavic release and was told so only recently. I was also told I'm "doing it wrong" because "Slavic release should be used to shoot from the left side of the bow just like Mediterranean". This made no sense to me so I kept resting the arrow on the right (while right handed). Now I'm watching a legitimate instructor confirming my choice. F***ing proud of myself! Made my day! Thanks! 😆

[@ArminHirmer]

I only know one who said Slavic with arrows on the left... Trust yourself :)

[@williammcmanus2841]

My arrow always fly funny and go way right slavic release compared to thumb release. Of course I haven't tried slavic since I've developed a more natural kahtra so I may try again. Thank you by the way for teaching me ancient styles, I used to shoot compound bow but it became to easy, takes the fun out of archery. I feel lucky to have stumbled across you videos, you are an amazing teacher!

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you

[@MrRourk]

Martin Sporri had some nice videos on Katra a couple of years ago. A little Katra solves a lot of problems.

[@tobiasbennett1576]

Always great info and relaxed energy, love the sign on the door,thank you . Beautiful bow here, what is it ? Many thanks

[@TTMaster-sp5sj]

Really loved the video ( great job )❤️

[@Uncle_Jester]

Left eye-dom, so when i pull right handed, it nicely compensates with built-in string twist. But when I pull left, i prefer thumb release. Both pulling knuckle of thumb to upper shell of my ears so it lines up with my eyes. Left for precision, right for speed.

[@John17thru26]

since finding this channel you have opened up a whole new way of archery for me. maybe if when we come out the other side of this world pandemic i can afford an eastern style bow and shoot happily away. it just seems so much easier than the English style.

[@rickydlayaute5387]

Everybody on the planet knows now why Meister Armin is MEISTER Armin!!! Just see this kind of video !! Thank's a lot 🙏😊🙏 so usefull!! Richard Lionheart 👍😎🏹🇫🇷

[@scetchport]

So damn relaxing....your voice is easy to listen too. Like a true teacher Thankyou.

[@rondumontier1187]

Well done. Did not try this style yet. But her I go, out to my range. Thankx again Sir

[@gizmonomono]

Nicely explained. If you get the time, could you make a video on side khatra? I loved your detailed explanation on the forward khatra, and the only mention of side khatra I can remember is the video on "common khatras" you made a while back. But then you only mentioned it. I think it would be beneficial to people, so they can avoid torquing the bow. Also, how is Sonia's thumb release doing? Are you going to turn it into a series? 😊

[@incorporeal3793]

Bamboo Archery has a good video explaining the mechanics of the different Khatras.

[@marlonwalt8849]

@@incorporeal3793 Armin is the Master.

[@gizmonomono]

@@incorporeal3793 Thanks for the info, I'll look it up. Edit. Oh yeah, I remember this guy. Totally forgot about his channel. Thanks for reminding me

[@ArminHirmer]

Sonia is doing fine, but we did not have time to continue her way with thumb release. Will come soon. Side khatra... yeah check first the video of Bamboo, did not see it, but I think for sure its helpful. If not I can do one :D

[@gizmonomono]

@@ArminHirmer I just finished watching it. It's a very comprehensible and detailed explanation on the effects of khatra. I highly recommend it, it's quite an interesting watch. He even explains the string twist 😁 Sadly, there is very little explanation on how to perform these khatras. The way I get straight arrow flight is to keep my bow arm very straight, and keep a high focus on back tention. This then moves my bow to the side upon release. I also find that I do a slight forward motion as well. So side and forward, which is how you said you shoot as well. This works for me, but I would like to get a better understanding of what side khatra really is. Again, as compared to the torque method, which I avoid at all cost 😁

[@solidname7839]

One of your arrows has White green red color nice attention to detail

[@foreverjim5240]

Awesome video. I've been shooting my grozer alot since I'm stuck at home. It's really fun to try out these different release styles. Thanks for the tips

[@ColetteNoir]

A very lucid instructional video, Armin!!! I see you are also using the little Turkish Bow you just reviewed. I am tempted by that one!

[@AlfaRevoluzione]

Immer mehr Däummler wechseln zu Slavic Release. Meiner Meinung nach das beste was es gibt.

[@metaknight5850]

Slavic release can be a nice option after a long thumb release training, when you thumb begins to hurts XD

[@msrvfx]

My Father was a very fast and accurate shooter, shooting Mediterranean and drawing from a back quiver. He would draw from the quiver gripping the nock, and he would mock the arrow to the string first and mount the arrow to the arrow pass from outside the string, instead of between the bow and string.

[@migueldiazfuertes4641]

i love this videos :)

[@iamnotavictim69]

Great video again Sensei 👍🏼👌🏼🙏🏼🎯 what is that good looking bow? Me SAA like it

[@ArminHirmer]

the kids Turkish bow I reviewed recently

[@douglassourbeer5636]

Wonderful Herr Hirmer, or should I say wunderbah? I coincidently came across your channel through coincidently coming across the 'Sling Shot' channel HA HA HA. I had done a little archery back in 1976 when a friend talked me into buying a bow (Bear Grizzly, recurve) and entering a tournament. I came in second but stopped practicing soon after. I was young, in the navy and there didn't seem to be time. Fast forward to present day when I saw one of your videos where you were talking about thumb release vs Mediterranean. Heck, I never knew it was called Mediterranean, I thought that was the only way to do it. I was intrigued and decided to get a bow and look into this thumb release. I ordered an inexpensive (seems to be descent) horse bow and tried shooting with the thumb draw. WOW, the arrows went so far right that anyone standing behind me was in danger. Well, after many attempts and watching several of your videos and learning about khatra and bow cant or tilt, I now can hit the target. Thank you for the time and effort you take to teach others about the art. Hoping Silverhawk is still with you.

[@massimoprampolini5348]

Molto istruttivo a me interessa molto questo argomento , ma purtroppo non conosco l'inglese penso di avere capito circa il 70% tramite la mimica del tuo modo di spiegare molto bene e un 5% dalla conoscenza del mio inglese. Sono istruttore Fiarc in Italia e pratichiamo il tiro istintivo mediterraneo, per il percorso di strutture sarebbe molto utile conoscere bene anche tutte queste cose che spieghi tu.

[@juwright1949]

What a great video! Well done. 👍🏻

[@belajarkitabgundul]

Thanks master.. for teaching us..

[@awesomereviews1561]

9:42, I shoot the same way, it took me a few days of trial and error to come up with it. I wish you had done this video a couple of years ago, it would have save me a lot of time ^_^. Anyways, great video.

[@MrRourk]

He actually talked about this a couple of years ago.

[@awesomereviews1561]

Fredrick Rourk I unfortunately didn’t see it. I remember seeing a video where Armin was doing a friendly speed archery competition with another guy but they both were grabbing the arrows on the free hand. Then I saw a video of Lars Andersen where he showed 4 fast archers, and the slowest one ( Bo something) was using this kind of grip with the Mediterranean draw. Since I use the thumb draw I just “reversed” the way he was holding the arrows and it worked.

[@randomcdude4430]

I feel like with the question of "historical accuracy" in terms of various loading/drawing techniques, in the thousands of years that archery has been practiced surely some individual in history tried just about every technique for loading, drawing, wearing a quiver etc. No group of people is a monolith and individuals will always do what works best for them. So whenever I hear a question like "did anyone ever do this historically/is this historically accurate archery?" I think "probably yes." If it works and has a practical application, someone probably did it . 🤷

[@KevinGalbraith]

Nice video. I've been shooting Mediterranean style on the near side of the bow, but I'm inspired by your videos to learn the thumb release. Looks really fun! I've got my eye on one of the Szimeistzter bows. Thanks for introducing me to his artistry. Keep up the wonderful videos. (p.s. I like the wiggle test, too.)

[@vanivanov9571]

I think we need a somewhat more substantial video on right side versus left side speed, with an actual side-by-side comparison with timed shots. If it's related to the Shadi-controversy, it would have to be Mediterranean draw vs Mediterranean draw, it can't be a thumb/Slavic draw vs a Mediterranean one.

[@ArminHirmer]

It's not related

[@Balaclavaballistics]

My go to technique

[@DerekBartlettBeorn]

With khatrah, for me personally I can't do that without inconsistency issues---relying on it stopping at a certain point, or taking my hand and wrist with it. What I do nowadays especially when I use these couple draws is to have the forefinger helping hold the bow and the thumb does nothing. Not tensed or pressing into the handle. It stays secure, draw hand stationary (just opening the fingers and nothing else). That way it won't swing and thus the arrow will fly the same way each time.

[@edkovac8978]

Diliing, dililing...;) I enjoy your videos very much.

[@garrettevans8863]

Excellent points, however I used to shoot Mediterranean style in the way that John Schulz taught the Hill style of shooting. With this style you grab the nock between your index finger and thumb, and can very quickly and easily nock your arrow without looking and shoot in one fluid, smooth motion when using a back quiver. You should look up “Hitting Em’ like Howard Hill” with John Schulz, it’s on KZbin. Thank you Armin.

[@ivanmoser3367]

Thanks! Khatra Video and Accuracy. Or some special target to improve accuracy.

[@miguelveratraditionalarche9374]

Use tennis ball!! For target. also use bamboo shaft horizontal and then change it vertical that helps a lot. Armin has several videos on the topic khatra. It has a very good video shooting arrows to a broomstick that will give you a great idea. Before shooting focus on your target As if that first arrow was the only one you have. Breathe relax and enjoy.😀

[@ivanmoser3367]

@@miguelveratraditionalarche9374 Thank you very much if I found Armin videos. I got a tennis ball, I'm going to try.

[@heikoapel5218]

For fast shooting with thumb release I find that you can be even faster by holding the arrow not by the nock, but at the shaft at the fletches, almost as far, that the nock touches the palm or the web between the thumb and index. That way you can nock and draw with a single fluent movement, without the need to re-position index and thumb after Nocking. Nocking is a bit more difficult that way compared to nocking while holding the arrow at the nock, thus it works best with fast nocking nocks. Armin, did you test this way of fast shooting, too?

[@ArminHirmer]

I guess no

[@heikoapel5218]

Learned that on a horseback archery course. If you get used to it, you can shoot very fast, plus you have a better control of the arrow. Quite useful on a bouncing horse.

[@bernardmatehaere9157]

Armin Hirmer ...hey you did a short vid on speed draw, horseback style, year and a half ago at the old shop. You simulated sitting down on a chair/bedroll and with your bow in hand, drew an arrow from left side out of hip quiver/bow quiver in one motion to meet your right hand nock the arrow draw to full length and release in the same motion, l remembered this, because after I watched the vid, l holstered up and ran around the back yard using this technique on my 3D targets! wife thought I was “going nuts” and it worked! so is using your limb and string to pick up your arrows on the ground as you run past...practice made me...not bad, just wondering if this is what Mr. Heiko Apel is inquiring 🤔 about? Peace and Health be with you Si Gung.

[@ArminHirmer]

@@bernardmatehaere9157 I don't think so. thanks for your funny story :D

[@DeWolfCIC]

Thank you Question - do you think there could be a noticeable difference in velocity between two different firing styles eg Mediterranean left side with archers paradox vs right side thumb release, string twist and kahtra?

[@ArminHirmer]

Sure

[@Ayce47]

Herr Armin, könnten ihr mir bitteschön sagen welches Lied beim der slowmo war? Thank you in advance (ich wußte nicht wie dass in Mann deutsch sagte)

[@ArminHirmer]

Weiss ich nicht mehr, war ein Stück in meiner Editing Software

[@silatbelantara203]

Thank you

[@jalalbusri7294]

I wish I can quickly practice this... but unfortunately due Coronavirus pandemic and partial lockdown in my country...I can only imagine ...not enough space in my house to conduct indoor shooting. Thanks for your tips and sharing.

[@ArminHirmer]

There is always enough space :)

[@nidhoggr95]

I shoot from my home office chair on a target 3m away;-)

[@bobjackson3307]

There is quite a diff. in Sound when you send Arrow with khatra & arrow twist. Ever since your mini-lecture on arrow twist with khatra from one of your Subscribers question: it has Sparked a wildfire through you-tube. In my opinion, I think Armin Hirmer is, "The Top", Traditional Archery Coach & a Top Mover of Information in the Archery Community, On or Off Line. Here is the proof: with each new video Armin Produces .. .. "what is that saying? ... Imitation is the Surest sign of a Dumb-ass, Yea... that's the ticket. They try to re-create Armin's video's as thier own. These people read from Armin's transcript online, "Verbatim", and get the Physics all wrong trying to explain what they see in movies. Ahhhh!. Thank You Armin. I learn something every Video.

[@Habitatti]

When you have powerful khatra and a clean release, the paradox is gone. You gotta love the slav.

[@stans1313]

Thanks

[@entertaint3045]

hi mr.armin.. what kind of bow are you using

[@nidhoggr95]

My perfered style for horsebows is slavic. I don't know why but thumb is not my style. What I realy like on both is that you can keep the arrows in draw hand and dont need a quiver or put them in the belt. And whene you do target shooting you can use your way to the target to shoot another six arrows. First i fire 6 arrows with a standard target bow (classic med three under) put it down, grap the horse bow and shot six more while walking. Meanwhile I get 6 arrows in under 15 s on a 30cm group at 10m. But what I still don't get is why some shoot med with the arrow on the thumb, in my eyes thats the worst of both worlds.

[@TheBUTOKUKAI]

If you don’t look at the arrow, ¿how can you know if the guide feather is in the right side?

[@ArminHirmer]

If you ever watched a video of mine you would have noticed that I don’t care about the “guide” feather, as it does not matter how I shoot and with having feathers and not vanes

[@lubossoltes321]

hmm ... is it possible for you do get a proper high-speed camera and check the actual khatra effect ? I have seen some videos where the arrow leaves the string and clears the bow even before the fingers of the draw hand open fully at release ... so any khatra would simply not have any effect other than torque effect before release ? I don't know, never shot thumb release, just curious ...

[@ArminHirmer]

Might do in the future. I'm some videos you can simply hear the arrow bouncing on the now without khatra and not at all with khatra. Of course.ome needs to be able to perform it properly

[@artimesbabai]

Thank you armin. Very helpful

[@trentenswett6306]

Mr. Hirmer by chance do you know if you are able to use a arrow guide with Slavic draw or is it only use able with thumb draw?

[@ArminHirmer]

do you mean an overdraw device like siper or majra?

[@trentenswett6306]

@@ArminHirmer I can't remember it's traditional name I know it was used in Korean, Turkish and other eastern archery, to allow the archer to shoot shorter arrows and darts out of their bows. But I do think we are talking about the same thing.

[@ArminHirmer]

@@trentenswett6306 okay. yes I think it is possible, maybe not as easy as with thumb (which is already not easy) hahaha but I don't see anything standing against it

[@trentenswett6306]

@@ArminHirmer Much appreciated, have a good one and stay safe.

[@jakubfijak9218]

I watched the video multiple times and i still dont understand why would archer paradox not apply to slavic release. In my mind it should just as in mediterean draw? Can someone explain what am i missing here?

[@ArminHirmer]

The roll off of the string from the fingers happens in the same direction, but the arrow is placed on the other side. I guess that helps

[@strawzgaming6153]

Do u know why use quiver that point back? It's because to make it easy to grab a sword...if the quiver point on the front, it's hard to grab a sword..

[@MrRourk]

Is this about Shadaversity?

[@ArminHirmer]

no

[@HisLoveArmy]

What brand and model bow is that?

[@tomhillewaere2099]

i would like also to kow it :)

[@jareth7456]

To shoot slowly is completely useless as your quarry may elude you and may return catching you unawares and kill you. From the book SARACEN ARCHERY.

[@Alagachak]

I find, from crawling around archery videos and comments, people have a tendency to say 'Thats not a warbow!' to anything that is not an english 130+ pound longbow'.Thus ignoring that even a 60 or 100 pound bow should be sufficient to bang the majority of enemy troops wounded/incapacitated throughout history? (Just got into my mind regarding string twist and warbow)

[@jareth7456]

I seriously doubt that the method used by Lajos Kassai is historically accurate just because Laszlo Gyula claimed that Hungarians were holding a bunch of arrows in the bow hand and shooting Mediterranean ,i doubt this very much. That Lajos Kassai has an Olympic archery background and then Gyula says they shot Mediterranean is rather convenient and that Lajos lost the tip of his right thumb probably playing a role in his method of choice . I am very confident that historical Hungarian archers only used the thumb lock.

[@ArminHirmer]

Me too

[@stewartgaudin2023]

Armin, has your khatra evolved from early videos......it looks different? Thanks for keeping us all going just now!

[@ArminHirmer]

I always play around with different things

[@stewartgaudin2023]

@@ArminHirmer I suspect I still drop my arm too much which you pointed out. Jane sends her regards. Stay safe.

[@aleksandarjankovic39]

I somewhere find (Asian guy) this technique call "Serbian draw" but I cant find anywhere that information on internet. Is that truth?

[@DANTHETUBEMAN]

This is a physics lesson right?

[@DANTHETUBEMAN]

This was my first 🎸 guitar lesson, thnx.

[@CarlitosMayo]

Ich spendier dir ein Bier!

[@ArminHirmer]

Danke