Crash Bandicoot Co-Creator Andy Gavin: Extended Interview | Ars Technica

Ars Technica is proud to present our extended interview with Crash Bandicoot co-creator Andy Gavin. Andy goes into deep, engaging detail in relating the saga of how he brought Crash Bandicoot to life alongside Naughty Dog co-founder Jason Rubin.
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Crash Bandicoot Co-Creator Andy Gavin: Extended Interview | Ars Technica

[@itsameyoshio]

Let's have another 2 hour video where he talks about Jak and Daxter on PS2!

[@LudicrouslyLiam]

Yes.

[@jakeschuler4682]

Yes ! Jak and Dexter is the best

[@recklesflam1ngo968]

oh YES

[@mmmlinux]

Yes.

[@KevinJamesVideo]

This!

[@widdowson91]

Even if this was a 24 hour video, I still wouldn't get bored of hearing him speak.

[@MathieuLaflamme]

The type of person who doesn't talk for nothing. Kind of the opposite. He is so interesting.

[@afrog2666]

You must love the word "like", because it`s half of what he`s saying..

[@RandomInsano2]

A Frog Like of course I like “like”

[@angelorusso3219]

Very interesting... but I watched the crunched 30 minute video of this which also had a lot of graphic visuals to understand more in-depth what he was saying in technical terms. I'm not a programmer but always interested in how creators made these games and what limitations they had to work with. In 20 years I'd like to hear what limitations programmers had on the PS4 vs the PS7!

[@KoopaXross]

Watched this twice before. Gonna watch it again now after months.

[@sebastianelytron8450]

This man must be protected at all costs.

[@DeadbeatDuder]

100% agree. Such a good spirited, honest and pleasant person (judging from this interview) and think about the value of what's inside his brain! Such precious knowledge and a smart, problem solving mindset. He figured out things makers wouldn't share, and possibly some other things they even didn't know! And the main trait serving as the cause of that is essentially curiosity, in my opinion. Hunger for knowledge rarely stays unsatisfied.

[@randorandom]

Easily one of the most entertaining people you've interviewed for War Stories. Please do more of these extended interviews!

[@especiallyabsent]

I feel like I’ve seen this as the top comment for multiple people in this series

[@nullspace9947]

Mr. Andy Gavin, please start a youtube channel teaching low level programming techniques in C.

[@hugoclarke3284]

@@nullspace9947 If he ever felt inclined to teach it would be LISP or GOAL

[@xeostube]

Agreed!

[@OneTyler2Many]

Andy is from the golden age of video games where nerds made video games, not businessmen. He's awesome.

[@SwordGuy3924]

Nerds still are, But the market is oversaturated with the business men developers, nerds get drowned out

[@Autotrope]

Nerds still make video games, they're just called "indie games" now. The ones the businessmen make are the "AAA games"

[@Xfacta12482]

​@Autotrope The nerds are still making the game at the AAA studios, but the out of touch publishers call the shots cause they're the ones funding the development.

[@colormetwisted]

I would love to listen to this guy talk about jak and daxter as well

[@gstephenson9442]

Especially the fact they used the PS1 processor inside of the PS2 to do extra work. This guy and Naughty Dog in general are genuises

[@violahero4life]

@@gstephenson9442 Wth? No wayyyyy!

[@tvoyager7]

that would be amazing

[@ottolehto]

Yes!! This must happen 😎

[@califaern3sto]

​@gstephenson9442 thats impossible, that processor is either in back compat mode for ps1 playback or its turning into its original ps2 mode

[@aarongreenfield9038]

I'm pretty sure this is the first time I ever watched a 2 hour KZbin video.

[@RyTrapp0]

Allow me to introduce you to one Joe Rogan...

[@robertquigley8119]

The lorne lanning extended interview on this channel is equally as interesting and entertaining as this one :)

[@fullpolish]

Try Peterson and you'll be amazed how fast you can consume a 60-hours course

[@lagcisco]

Andy's commentary is pure gold. I've had the great pleasure of working with Andy a couple of years, some of the best of my career. Super stoked this extended version is out now.

[@3D_Dungeon_Crawler]

Who are you? Where have you been working at? @_@ c'mon, speak!

[@HauntedAbysss]

What games did you work on?

[@willpow05]

Liar

[@mlcs]

Bump

[@DanielGilchristYT]

I can't believe it. I watched the original upload of this and said "man I could listen to this guy talk for hours" Then you uploaded a video of him talking for hours. WOOOO.

[@disabledchatzen5276]

LITERALLY THIS

[@jayrex690]

Ah man the last video where he was explaining how he managed to find extra memory space on the system and exploit that to be able to make a better game, was so good, his explanations and story telling was fascinating, the original Crash Bandicoot was and still is one of my favourite games, it's a timeless classic, and that video made me appreciate it all the more, so very much looking forward to watching this one!

[@cogs11]

MIT degree. To do such a software exploit. You have to know the hardware architecture really well.

[@Dropbare]

Videos like these solidify my opinion on old game developers. They were a level of genius that is no longer seen in video games, and such extreme optimisations to get as much as possible, even 'cheating' the systems given, are now a lost art. It's amazing how unoptimised, buggy, and bloaty many games are now.

[@themostballershiteva]

Drop As interesting as the hacks they used to do are, they are a nightmare to maintain. Now that there is an abundance of power, the balance has shifted towards making code more maintainable. This ultimately means much better backwards compatibility going forward.

[@JeremyGalloway]

That was an incredibly long sentence! Make sure to breath

[@jayrex690]

@@JeremyGalloway I've seen longer, commas are for breaths too ;)

[@amrsalama911]

Time-Stamps: [0:00:09] Chapter 01: The Naughty Dogs [0:03:20] Chapter 02: Westward Bound [0:06:35] Chapter 03: Choosing the PlayStation [0:12:50] Chapter 04: Breathing Life Into Crash [0:18:20] Chapter 05: Pushing the Limits of the PlayStation [0:28:47] Chapter 06: How Crash Found His Style [0:33:23] Chapter 07: The Vastness of the Third Dimension [0:40:30] Chapter 08: Getting to the Checkpoint [0:51:10] Chapter 09: Hacking The PlayStation [1:07:03] Chapter 10: Inventing the Data Chunk System [1:19:31] Chapter 11: The Boneless Bandicoot [1:29:35] Chapter 12: Keeping Up the Pace [1:38:12] Chapter 13: G.O.O.L. Language: Game Oriented Object Lisp [1:44:11] Chapter 14: The Benefits of Preclusion Data [1:49:35] Chapter 15: Playing Crash With Andy [2:00:43] Chapter 16: Releasing the Bandicoot [2:08:22] Chapter 17: Final Thoughts

[@sonicextremities9570]

Thank you!

[@tarwin]

I love how excited he is about everything!

[@AltimaNEO]

Yeah, I feel he had all this cool stuff to talk about, but no one "gets it"

[@psychodesign2997]

4 weeks later and we have it folks. The extended edition is here. Thank you, Arstechnica and Andy for this interview.

[@tehrater480]

Watching this extended version makes you realize how good of a job the video editors did on the main video to condense that much info into 30 min. Add onto the aaaaaaall the pictures, graphics, clips and diagrams that were put it to make it all easier to follow, and I'm super impressed by the quality of it and the amount of work put in. Kudos!

[@Aidan.w]

One of my most nostalgic memories of playing Crash is the end credits when you first beat Cortex, watching Crash and Tawna fly away into that beautiful sunset. I specifically remember seeing Andy Gavin and Jason Rubin's names coming up on the screen and thinking how thankful I was to those guys for making such a special game. I didn't know anything about them at the time or even what they looked like, but I remember wondering what it must have been like for them to create Crash, and I just find it so amazing that all these years later we're able to watch a 2 hour interview with Andy and hear him explain in his own words how Crash was made. Words fall short of explaining how special this game is and the memories that come with it, and I'm sure most of us here who grew up with it will feel the same way. Thank you :)

[@mdude3]

Clarifying some of the things Andy says in the video because it's been 25 years and all: - Crash's model in Crash 1 is actually 732 polygons by default (638 during spin anim and 260 during explosion anim, etc - a change in any polygon color or vertex mapping means a new model is generated, and keep in mind not all of these polygons are necessarily visible). Crash 1 can actually render ~3 crash models at once in a single frame (@25FPS) before just crashing completely but that can obviously vary as Crash is mostly an untextured model (only textures being the shoelaces, back and in early versions the nose as well) and there's all the other object code and physics calculations. - 43:31 the first three levels made that actually shipped are Cortex Power, Generator Room and Heavy Machinery. Obviously the "over the shoulder" one is Cortex Power. - 44:33 obviously the sewer levels are from Crash 2 but a similar type of level was also in Crash 1 in some of the 3D levels. - 1:13:59 Levels in Crash 1 use around 20 to 22 pages in memory, which equates to ~1.25MB to ~1.375MB of RAM used up on that alone (texture goes to different places). Crash 2 normally uses one less page than Crash 1 (21 at max instead of 22). It's actually a bit more complicated than that (there are "fake" virtual pages that aren't made up of 64kb memory) but this suffices. - 1:26:00 the bitstream compression talked about here was actually added in Crash 2. Crash 1 animation compression simply takes some data loss (in fact, there must have been a bug with this compression program at some point because every axis in Crash 1 has the same dynamic range for each model when the engine supports each axis having a different range per model), and always spits out 6 bytes per vertex - Crash by default would use 381 vertices, so that's a whopping ~2.24kb per frame of animation, and certain animations/characters used even more vertices: the burn animation uses 831!. The Crash 2 compression allows for per-vertex dynamic axis ranges, but even animations that did not use that compression would only use up to 3 bytes per vertex which is already half the size. In comparison: Crash's burn animation (which is the same in all 3 games) is split into 5 chunks in Crash 1 but fits in a single one in Crash 2.

[@djmips]

how do you know all this!?

[@iNerdier]

I’ve heard that the original source code for crash has been lost which is a huge shame, it would be lovely to see how you actually did all this in lisp/assembly.

[@mickael486]

um.. thanks, dude. whoever you are.

[@xan1242]

@@djmips a thing called reverse engineering

[@djmips]

@@xan1242 yeah but I want to know more about the scene , posts, forums all that.

[@MartiniBlankontherest]

His knowledge of gaming history and his contemporaries make it so obvious why he's so good at what he does

[@danutd94]

An artist not a businessman. Made games not money. Crash is one of all time favourites! Thanks Andy!

[@neon9999]

I'm a computer scientist and I'm amazed at how good he is at communicating very technical details in a way that most people without specific computer knowledge could understand. Not everyone can do that effectively!

[@AltimaNEO]

I really love to hear stories about game development in the early-mid 90s. Something about that time is very fascinating to me. Maybe its because it was the wild west of 3D gaming, or because games consoles seriously started getting big and expensive. You needed big budgets, SGI work stations, and a crew beyond just 3 guys in a garage. As a result, though, Im super fascinated by SGI machines and 3D graphics/modelling. I hope to be able to play around with an SGI someday.

[@MFewwy]

Please do more interviews like that, very intelligent and knowledgable person. Good job

[@supersquare]

I agree, he's such a joy to listen to

[@aceofspades001]

No politics, no agendas, just pure talent and passion to create fun games.

[@vario6492]

We are devolving as a society

[@cogs11]

The previous video where he talked about the technicals was the most amazing thing I ever heard. CTR was my first Naughty Dog game. I looked up Andy Gavin's past and I saw MIT. That explained the innovative approach. Years later it still fascinates me how engineers come up with solutions to hardware limitations.

[@Dropbare]

4th time watching this. I hope to see more from him (about other games for example!) He's a beast.

[@Designmanagerco]

If Andy Gavin has a masterclass of game design and how to start off, I’d totally be in for it.

[@PhilippeSymons]

This was great! I would love to see a similar interview for Spyro.

[@AbrahamLure]

There are a few interviews on Spyro out there already, but none to this detail. I'd love to see Insomniac developers talk about the first 3 Spyro games.

[@twilightshadow1795]

I loved this interview. And I would pay for a book on the making of the art/design of Crash.

[@Bradley_Lute]

I was playing Crash Bandicoot Warped for the first time in over 20 years while watching this and it is still an experience. It plays very nicely. I tried playing Tomb Raider 2 a while back and it was so pixelated it was hard to tell what was going on. I could barely make it past the very beginning of the level. Crash Bandicoot is such a legacy and still very playable to this day on HD screens. It is such a vivid part of my childhood. I love the series. After Mario and Sonic, this was the next big thing in platform gaming. It really stands up next to Mario 64. Bravo to this team for making it work. A lot of 3D platformers at the time really didn't work.

[@chrissoucy1997]

I would love if he came back for a second episode to talk about how he made Jak and Daxter on PS2. It is the first game I ever played in my life so it is a special franchise to me.

[@THEBIGGESTSCUMBAG]

ABSOLUTE LEGEND. THANK YOU FOR MY CHILDHOOD, ANDY ❤️

[@Maerkues22]

Looks like i'm in for a treat!

[@leorelic]

he's simply father of my favorite franchise ... i wouldn't become a gamer without Crash

[@peterjansen4826]

The shorter version of this is what made me subscribe to this channel. I never played the game but I am interested in the developmental process and the software/hardware issues.

[@peterjansen4826]

@Can't Think of a Name I agree and he showed it with their technical innovations with RAM-swapping and quantization and throwing away non-required data.

[@Tenkenka]

Have you found some sort of article that tells how he accomplished that?

[@esotericVideos]

I really like watching the videos themselves, but these full interviews are even better.

[@marioskoutras6583]

Suddenly, the quarantine feels better!

[@wojiaobill]

this guy is not just a great programmer, but he also understands the industry so well, and is very, very well articulated. such a great interview

[@Emmbedd]

This interview is pure gold

I was introduced to ND in 97 through a PS1 demo disc that had Crash Bandicoot. Over 20 years later I've LOVED and enjoyed EVERY Naughty Dog game since. Your legacy is cemented, thank you Andy!

[@jayrex690]

Naughty Dog's track record is absolutely amazing, their creations are almost always hugely successful console sellers, very innovative stuff as well, definitely one of the best developers in the industry for almost a solid 25 years now, and listening to Andy's passion for games you can tell why. I for one hope their run continues for a long time to come, can't wait to see what their next new IP might be!!

[@markippo]

Yeah, but I don't like last 3 games (Lost Legacy included)... Don't get me wrong, technically they're very well done, but in terms of gameplay, characters ' creation and narrative, they're extremely cheap and lazy. Druckmann could do with The last of us whatever he wanted, but why turning uncharted from fast-paced Indiana Jones type of game to story of whining plastic people? Simply don't know...

[@inchworm9311]

This guy is a great teacher

[@Chibiwobot]

Thank you i was really waiting for the extended version.

[@JoyOfSatan]

This is such a good interview, the passion this guy has for his work is so charismatic

[@joelonsdale]

I have literally no interest in Crash Bandicoot, but Andy is absolutely fascinating!

[@niki75]

I love how he's talking about the playstation 1 technical stuff, and how the game sorta kinda worked in general like it was yesterday.

[@No-mq5lw]

The little thing about this interview that I have to point out is that he forgot the names for DirectX and Vulkan, but can remember Apple's proprietary gfx api.

[@slazerlombardi]

man's a genius...

[@mickael486]

Merely a sign of how old he is.

[@TheInredibleMrH]

Lol I love it. It's funny how there are specific things that just become ingrained in a person's mind.

[@TheRandomGuyTheFarNoGameCat]

He's old guard bro.

[@No-mq5lw]

@@TheRandomGuyTheFarNoGameCat I was indirectly mentioning that he works more with Macs and therefore was more accustomed to Metal, not age. Vulkan is nearly the same age as Metal, and DirectX launched about 24 years ago.

[@beejwalden2009]

This is one of the best interviews I've seent yet

[@TheGodlessCosmonaut]

Loved this, hoping you guys put out more of these longform interviews!

[@dmed5480]

Thanks for putting this up

[@GerryG91100]

Thank you so much for these interviews

[@WickedlNl]

Awesome, keep the extended interviews coming \m/

[@SNESDude]

Perfect timing! I loved your interview with Andy so will enjoy this immensely

[@AvariceOverlord]

Oh wow a two hour version? I knew there had to be more to the last interview and now I am really glad there was!

[@judgeomega]

i cant believe this is over 2 hour long. i got so caught up in all the interesting stories the time just flew by. this is easily the best 'making of' documentary or whatever you want to call it that iv ever seen

[@Kerdukie]

I was soooo hoping for this!!!!

[@th4ton3guy]

Thanks for the extra footage from this episode 😸

[@magictoast15]

This guy is really good at explaining all that technical stuff in a way that people like me who don't know anything about computer science or game design can understand.

[@agustinblasco9100]

I absolutely loved this! Cheer my quarantine up release all the long versions!

[@ToyokaX]

Yes! I love the extended interviews! These are always a great watch/listen. Thanks for these incredible interviews from industry legends, Ars Technica,

[@Table53]

This is just a fantastic interview, great level of technical information for non-game devs while being fascinating the entire time. Good work, Andy.

[@titaniumdiveknife]

Love this guy!

[@bubblepopshot6891]

Thank you for posting the full interview!!!

[@aceofspades001]

We need the Jak and Daxter version of this !!!!

[@RaffaeleSansone]

Great! Already on my watch later playlist. So much to learn from this guy.

[@Absolynth]

I love how Crash will always represent a very specific time in gaming when we transitioned from 2D to 3D, and we didn't really know what else to do other than make a 2D platformer, but in 3D! It was awesome seeing the Pixar quality remake, and how 3D graphics came full circle to honor it's origins. The only way I 'hacked' my PS1 was opening the disc tray during certain games loading screens, and replacing the disc inside with a music CD of my own choosing, and the game with all assets loaded into memory, the only disc function is to load wav tracks for background music. Custom soundtracks in certain games this way lol You know it's funny, I still remember my techy brother when we were kids in the 90s and he was explaining to me how Naughty Dog accomplished Crash Bandicoot and how fascinatingly unique it was at the time. Even back then we knew what they achieved here was special.

[@alexgreen2747]

Thanks AT and Andy. This is just fantastic. Could listen to hours more.

[@Vorundor]

I LOVE these extended interview! Any chance of making one with David Jaffe about Twisted Metal/GOW?

[@MelodiesZone]

Thanks for this. The original upload of this was one of the best developer interviews I have ever watched.

[@domenicdefusco6328]

This has to be one of my favorite recently published videos yet.

[@robertsacramento322]

Great interview! Could listen to Andy all day.

[@crosswick]

This is now my favourite computer science / game design 'lecture' - great job, thank you. What a craftsman!

[@WanderingMachine]

I enjoyed every bit of this interview.

[@lonotalonota5779]

You can just tell this guy is a seasoned academic on the topic of compsci.

[@KmF0X]

Those complete interviews are a blast, i'd love to see more of that kind of stuff about old games, it's fascinating how people were creative around limitations

[@peterdonnell3784]

Keep em coming, amazing series, about the best KZbin has to offer. And this comes from someone at a rival site!

[@supersquare]

What an absolutely inspiring interview! Andy Gavin is a legend, he just emanates passion and dedication

[@Rooboid]

Great extended coverage of the development process, truly unbelievable work on Andy and the teams part to revolutionise the impact of 3D graphics and art direction in gaming.

[@EscapeFromDaSystem]

Yes guys thanks for this extended interview! dont have time to watach it right now but will when im free!

[@cyberangel82]

What a smart man. I would love to have a grandpa like him. I could listen to him for hours on end.

[@k_xx]

This is awesome! Andy's such an interesting guy, loved this interview!

[@OmeedNOuhadi]

An extended version, epic!

[@gavindavis7514]

I love how he explains things

[@herfamusic]

Beyond entertaining and informative. This was truly inspirational

[@mikew1507]

Excellent interview! Very informative.

[@seth64_]

we need another interview all about jak and daxter please 😭😭

[@5izzy557]

thanks, the only issue with the previous video was that is was too short.

[@zenahrb8316]

Oh yeah, can't stop listening to this cool dude

[@matturner6890]

I can see how this guy would be a great boss: He's great at holding people's attention and describing his vision.

[@edismehmedali4666]

Absolutely fascinating.

[@mrkthmn]

I didn’t realize there was an extended cut till it was linked at the end of the edited cut so I watched this one second. I have to say, I found the experience of the edited cut better cause of the visuals and it was just a great edit! However, it was awesome to get all the extra info from this longer version as well.

[@davidgriffiths2223]

Great story, you can see his passion about the project and the problem solving even year later.

[@Brianf66999]

Didn't know I needed this interview. So interesting, could've listened for days. Can't wait for more!

[@TheRandomGuyTheFarNoGameCat]

They have a back catalogue called "War Stories" :).

[@xeostube]

This was fantastic. There wasn't quite as much more in the extended cut as the 4x increase in length suggested, but it was still totally worth the listen.

[@robvas]

Amazing. Could talk to this guy about programming for hours

[@k.upward]

I wanna see the video “Crash Bandicoot: Rite of Spring (remix)”

[@jakeschuler4682]

Thank you Andy Gavin for making your games unique. Still playing the Jak and Dextar games to this day even though I’ve beaten them countless times. Hands down my favorite games

[@AZJayjohn]

I need more deadspace interviews lol

[@epicon6]

Thank you for the extended cut. The first two Crash Bandicoots are like a religion to me :)

[@Terracraft321]

Nice and early, very informative video! Great guy.

[@GoTeamScotch]

This interview, along with Lorne Lanning's interview, are some of the most interesting videos I've seen in a while regarding the gaming industry. It's incredibly fascinating hearing hearing these talented and smart people give a peek into how they pulled off these iconic games. Please publish more of these kinds of videos! :)

[@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan]

Oh wow, there is a extend version of this awesome interview?

[@lynnbell6374]

Best interviewEE ever!