Artist TRACES From Numerous People…

[@indigonerd]

I've always told people, hey, you can use my poses as references, heck, draw the exact same pose, but you DRAW IT. Not trace. Draw. And add details to make it your own. I'm in my 40's now, but in my teens I traced. From first-hand experience, you learn very little to nothing. It's not worth it, especially if you already have some talent. Not only do you set yourself back and lose all that time you could have been improving yourself and your work, but you destroy your reputation. Not to mention the abundance of pose reference books nowadays. Again, I don't condone tracing and I think it's a waste of time and effort, but trace out of those books if you've gotta trace so damn bad. It's still wrong, but it at least feels slightly less scummy.

[@BoldActionSkitty]

EXACTLY. Referencing is loads better than tracing.

[@dedtatoweirdschien]

Been wondering tho. If someone "traces" over an art just to see the proportion of the anatomy and then tries to redraw the traced proportion, is that considered as tracing? 🤔

[@zelrius8714]

same, when I was in elementary (like 4-5th grade) I used to trace outlines like this, but on paper instead and thought it was okay, I didn't know any better. Then as I grew older I learned about original works and copying and realized it was wrong. I actually had a bit of talent or an eye for art without realizing (for my age at the time, not saying I'm good lmao) and I realized I could be using that talent to actually learn to draw. I started referencing and now I use real life references of real people and from different styles that I like. Also, I don't think tracing is necessarily bad when using it to learn like you said out of art books for poses. Sometimes it can help people realize what they do wrong, as long as it's used for strictly personal use and development and NOT for publishing online. They shouldn't be dependent on tracing though, although it's probably better if they don't do it at all unless they have to for whatever reason or they just learn that way idk. As long as it's not used for commissions or publicly posting a traced work and say "hey this is my art guys" and such then I think it's fine. Even if they trace a real life photo or reference photo they took themselves, but tracing other's artwork and posting is a big no no

[@BoldActionSkitty]

@@dedtatoweirdschien I think that's more along the lines of heavy referencing.

[@nyangelicechan6296]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@dedtatoweirdschiennope! Key word: “drawing over other art” is trace ^^ so the second move is not trace.

[@cvp1d.viccie]

I hope all the artists who got stolen from or got traced get justice someday

[@NotnotADHD]

Only possible once we reign in ai as well

[@ohilaN]

Its so sad because i started taking commissions recently (like 2 days ago) yes my proportions are not perfect and i am still learning which is normal you ahould never take others work because your work doesnt look perfect we are all learning and its sad because this person has talent i hope that one day im able to get commission in the near fututre

[@yuri_nori]

Bro they clearly have the skill to draw why would you trace and claim it as your own??? this is so pathetic 😮‍💨

[@CLEARR-E-]

Maybe they have the skill only at rendering, but can't do anything else like composition, ideas and body proportions 🤔

[@yuri_nori]

​@@CLEARR-E- that might be true but they should take the time to learn how to draw poses and use references it's not worth getting caught and having to restart your account if you want to make money like this taking this extra step is super worth it in my opinion

[@CLEARR-E-]

@yuri_nori I never said it justifies tracing, and neither I tried to defend them. Just thought of a possible reason why it could happen

[@ev4d0r3]

THE WAY I WAS BINGE WATCHING YOUR OLD UPLOADS AND I GOT THIS 😭😭😭

[@dabreadgalaxy1302]

@@ev4d0r3 SAMEE

[@nameerav.g1395]

I used to trace. But this year decided to change I'm still learning but I've gotten better at it. I just don't focus on mistakes anymore I just embrace them sometimes it's ok if your anatomy is wrong what's important is that you know its wrong ans next time you will keep that in mind ,(thats how i improved) also nobody is gonna notice you're Little mistakes

[@xeIIy]

The fact she’s good at the coloring, shading, blending, wtv terms artists use but unfortunately she traces.

[@dabreadgalaxy1302]

Damn there is art/vtuber drama like every other hour why are people so scummy in this community😭🙏😂

[@Ominvus]

Because they have nothing better to do. 🤷

[@ayajade6683]

Because it's easier to get away with it as a v tuber as it's harder to trace back to them irl

[@callmeblacksh33p]

Anonymity.

[@heelturn2]

because the art community is comprised of millions of people, & obviously some of them are going to be scummy

[@nyangelicechan6296]

Greedy 😅 just want fame and money ig

[@BoldActionSkitty]

Kat, I feel like if you browsed DA as well as Twitter then you would never run out of potential content lol. Drama there is just as crazy.

[@fenixsoul3102]

Fair use does not apply here, it involves using existing content in an unlicensed manner under certain circumstances. Taking another piece of work, trace it and claim it as your own...does not apply in fair use. When using work for fair use, its still belongs to the owner and you gotta represent it as such.

[@theczeko4857]

ive been binge watching ur videos for the past few days because ur voice is actually so nice .. ty for daily vids

[@Popper_Drop]

How do we feel about tracing over photos we've taken ourselves of ourselves? I've done it a few times when I've tried hard to draw a pose but just can't get it or find an appropriate reference. I feel like it always looks different by the end because I still tweak it a lot to look like the character I'm aiming for but it's still nice to give my brain training wheels (especially with having aphantasia like I do)

[@zelrius8714]

I commented about a similar thing under another comment, I don't think tracing is necessarily bad IF it's strictly for your own personal use and development especially using your own reference photos. As long as you're not tracing any artists' real work and then publishing it as yours then you're good. Real photos that you take and tracing it would be fine in my eyes, nobody is going to come for you and say you traced your own self or your own picture like it wouldn't make sense. Definitely use it to help you understand the shapes and anatomy and all that, but try to eventually practice on your own and take time to understand after you traced it. Trust me, after you understand the basics and practice more without tracing you will get the hang of it if you keep at it consistently. Consistency and practice is key

[@miwiarts]

That's A-OK.

[@nyangelicechan6296]

You can trace your own work or your own photos bc it’s your own stuff, but you can’t trace others work without their permission and being dishonest.

[@Shefura]

Copyright deals with all published works. Videos, books, art etc.

[@Columbira]

Tracing is still wrong even if it doesnt fall under copyright. In my opinion, tracing is equivalent to stealing someones video but replacing their voice with yours

[@Kori888_cc]

Why are people bringing up copyright? They’re not going to court they’re having a personal issue of tracing

[@starrailsunday]

In general I think tracing is fine for learning how to draw, but don’t post it online and DEFINITELY do not charge people for traced artworks. I think a majority of people would draw or trace their favorite cartoon characters growing up when they were learning to draw- again nothing wrong with that, just be very careful and do not claim the artwork as being your own entirely

[@zelrius8714]

I agree 100%, said this to others who were asking if it's fine for learning purposes. As long as it's not posted online and claim a traced work as theirs, then they can do whatever they want to learn drawing

[@spiderleamer]

Every day im glad i got rid of my twitter art account for my bluesky. Also a good point I tend to do if i ever see an artwork i want to take inspiration from i remake the pose in PoseMyArt and use that for the drawing insted and dont even look at the artwork as i draw my own.

[@saturnichaze]

I truly hope that there will be less people like this one in my community. I promise, there are so many russian artists who are amazing people and don't take advantages of others for personal gain. I feel the need to elaborate due to obvious reasons, please don't automatically think lowly of other artists from here. I've seen my sweet friends get put in the same category as these "artists" and it's very disheartening.

[@Kiara_qt17]

I always dm artist if I could use their pose if I like the pose that much because I don’t want ppl to say I copy when at the end of the day I ask the artist themselves

[@kittycandy_art]

I love to draw to your videos. I just wish the art community can be normal for once 😭. Love your videos ❤️❤️❤️

[@Philosoficate]

I know it’s not as new news as a lot of these stories you cover (at least until they kick off their next arc), but have you ever considered talking about the vanillakitsune/stripesandteeth/ashketchumsays situation?

[@K1nla]

If you're going to trace a pose use it as reference to understand the structure of the pose, don't then apply changes to the trace to make your piece. If I'm going to trace a pose, I'm then going to study it to see if understand it, then get a 3D model and post it close to that pose then use the 3D model as my next reference. Don't care if it's more steps... it's better then not understanding the pose and completely using another artists art as a base. Like the pose?...then learn and make your own version of it =table flip= I know time saving is great when trying to make a living, but not when you're using someone else time and effort to make your own art. 5:48 I was going to say this doesn't look traced, just referenced the pose... until I noticed the "unique" shape of the chin such a shame. When body proportions are too similar to eachother it's a dead giveaway of tracing vs referencing. Doesn't matter if one leg is different slight changes doesn't give you a free pass of "not traced" you need to go BIG with changes. Laying down poses are a challenge, I get it, but that's why you need to LEARN how they work with using more then one reference + 3D models and hell take photos of yourself in these poses idk. It's a time saver in the long run too once you understand how this stuff works vs defaulting to tracing because they AGAIN you're just using another artists work as a model base which isn't right. This upsets me, I wish I could render this nice. 6:04 this would have felt different enough, there are alot of changes that it doesn't feel traced at all...until the butterflies =facepalm= 16:00 Exactly! this! Edit: if time is a issue could also raise your prices =shrug= and always reference irl outfits vs other peoples art if you can, because it gets too close to over references if you copy the body proportions in those outfits

[@katkillj0y]

my art mom and rig mom are both in the vtuber news in the last month , what is life

[@hollowpistol2378]

If it's traced, then yeah that's dumb. But if it's just a pose that's refferenced I don't see the harm. I refference so many artworks to make my own since I can't easily visualize and draw out what I'd like without the help of an actual picture. So. Tracing is indeed bad. Pose refferences, ect, fair game as long as it is not 1/1 and uncredited. Hope this makes sense.

[@hollowpistol2378]

Also use a collage of refferences. Like she says. 😅

[@thessablue]

One artwork shown doesn't really fully fall under the term tracing (like the kitsune ych.) It isn't really traced (except for the tail and the butterflies), but it just feels TOO similar. There is a term for copying someone elses ideas and presenting them as your own, and thats ✨plagiarism✨ The ych, even though it's drawn differently, uses most of the concept and ideas from the original drawing. The art doesn't include a credit to the original artist, therefore, it's presented as it's own original piece. So the artist is a tracer and a plagiarist. Art is original due to the combination of unoriginal ideas. Some primary components of the original artwork were the composition, pose, species, the forest background and the consistent inclusion of butterflies. Some minor components were specific clothing (like shoes, bandages, robe etc), tattoos, hairstyle, facial expression, flowers, tails etc. The only new ideas added to the ych was the stocking on one of the legs, the expression, parts of the hairstyle and the background. Most of the ideas in the ych (inclusion of butterflies, hairstyle, species, pose, tail,specific shoes, composition) were directly taken from the original artwork. Not including some ideas from the original artwork (robe, bandages, tattoos etc) isn't good enough to merely call it inspired, as the ych doesn't seem to have taken enough inspiration from other references, therefor not contributing enough new ideas to make the ych original. Just brought this up as someone in the twitter thread commented about how "the rest just looks referenced" and ""laying down" as a pose in art has been around for centuries".

[@dr_wh]

i have never been so early for any video that the upload time is in SECONDS

[@axoliqueii]

early! also why would you trace from many different people? i mean yea, sometimes you just trace the pose, but it just looks weird how your pencil makes a different style every time it touches the paper.

[@froggycolouring]

No way people are bringing fair use into tracing. It’s not fair use because the purpose was for profit, and additionally the change isn’t enough to be considered it’s own (being a nearly direct recreation of the original work). Of course I’m no lawyer, I just did some research through publicly available websites, so take this with a grain of salt. Tbh it looks like the screenshot they showed for fair use was from Google’s Ai overview of searches so uhh….

[@loonart_9]

katliente i would like to ask if i take a photo of myself then i go to trace it would it still count as traceing someones work/illustration?

[@froggycolouring]

No, you own the photo. If it’s someone else’s photo, maybe, but if it’s your photo than its 100% yours.

[@Kayleeswirl]

So much drama this year.

[@RickyFSeiei]

5:36 i would say that it is not a trace but rather a heavily referenced pose. Because when you compare them side by side, the piece is not the same. Even the pose and the angle is is not the same.

[@RickyFSeiei]

After a closer inspection, i think that the only traced thing on this piece is just the Idea. The Hands and fingers are different and doing different poses. This is more of the Artist own interpertation of the original piece rather than tracing. Reference Yes, traced Unlikely. The rest though yeah its very obvious.

[@froggycolouring]

I still think referencing that heavily without credit isn’t okay.

[@peachem]

I felt the upload

[@senink]

“Fair use”? Bruh that stuff don’t apply to art work Fair use of artwork I think should be its own written thing. 1. Tracing others work for studies and such MUST be credited and you must ask for permission before posting 2. If you bought an art work, traced it, posted it without credit and proof of reference that is still an offence I’m sure there’s more we can do but hopefully yall get the idea Kinda wanna make a video on this myself, if anyone wants to comment their two cents on the subject please do

[@froggycolouring]

Fair use does apply to artworks though, I do agree it _should_ be it’s own law. Also on 2, if you buy the commercial rights to an artwork you’re technically allowed to do that (different from just buying the art).

[@floof7680]

Yeah ive found tracers that trace from multiple people to make it harder to spot

[@AmyyLily]

i've never been this quick 💀

[@ferazapam]

YYAYAYAAY

[@ZeroZoneZZ]

Ehh, to be fair, being honest about your work doesn't really give alot of benefits because I see artists who paint really well with a unique style but only has 600 followers. With tracers getting thousands over literally unoriginal artworks makes tracing really attractive. There's no point calling out tracers if there is so much incentive to trace. This will never change until honest artists gets rewarded more than 600 followers for being honest.

[@Haneuloverr]

Not all of the drawings are traced imo, the poses and art styl r common

[@angelinachue2410]

you don’t own poses or colours or elements… as long as you don’t trace over it and claim it as your own, it’s still your work

[@NomCherry]

👏

[@v1e_val]

No-one here?

[@Ocean_draws]

Dont get why People trace other art i meen what do they earn i whonder what god will say when they die

[@Lucky_Jay12]

Hellooo

[@tvscreen-ij5vd]

Ur hair is beautiful😫🩷🩷

[@MLPRainySky02312]

HELLOOOOO

[@5eyoshi]

Could you explain "the essence of the piece" thing deeper?

[@nadibeast7664]

Oh yes. And why am I not surprised that this person who traced other people's drawings is a resident of Russia...

[@saturnichaze]

It's giving me second hand embarrassment. "Conservatism" in its literal sense of preserving something is shoved so far down our throats, that proper respect for people's work never truly developed I guess lol. For me its even more disappointing to see, cause ppl like this drama queen may be the reason why potential clients won't trust me as much, due to past experiences w these types of "artists" :/

[@OFFICIALLYZOE]

Early

[@hiroibwah]

If it's one thing that's big in the art community, it's artists bringing down every other artist every chance they get

[@floradorbs]

IM EARLY

[@triggerfairy4070]

Its a pose, its not that big of a deal.

[@post_rot]

idc about tracing

[@Casual.Gamer_0000]

you artists are complicated... - complain when people like me use AI to skip the long learning curve - complain when people borrow too much element from another artist i start to feel you only like when someone do their work "the one way" how you learned art back then... but times are changing, and i'm happy for it... i like to only sketch my art, and finish it with AI, since its so much faster, than rendering and detailing the art for myself...

[@everlynevins]

Artists spent their time learning to do things on their own. Assuming you use genAI, you're using their work because you can't be bothered to put in the effort to learn. Why should there be any sympathy for that? If you're using AI that pulls elements from your own work, then sure, go ahead. But if it's outsourced, you're the problem.

[@fenixsoul3102]

There's a difference between referencing and tracing. Sadly artists are human and they're not perfect. Some artists are too in their ego with people taking from them but it happens with everyone, even people who use ai art. You can never skip the, "you stole from me" accusations, but if you traced and take 90% of an illustration from someone else, that's a problem. And skipping the learning curve is only a temporary solution imo, it can never replace foundations

[@Z3r0Art]

We just want people to work on their craft WITHOUT stealing the hard work of others to do so. Its a simple wish if you ask me🤷🏽‍♀️

[@trashbot.3533]

"People are calling me out for not putting in the effort to learn and appreciate my craft. Stealing elements from other artists and calling it my own work is completely justifiable!" There's nothing wrong with AI art if you are simply taking inspiration or using it for fun. Although in this case the only thing you've actually drawn is the sketch. Unless you deliberately state the the rendering is done by AI, then it is scummy to say, "hey, look at all this work I did!" when all you've done is the sketch. Just like how you cannot submit an essay written by Chatgpt even if the instructions were written by yourself. You can yake credit for the sketch, but once you've put the thing through AI, you have to be honest about the AI's contribution to the image.

[@floof7680]

Skip the learning curve? Youll never skip the learning curve if you don’t put in effort to actually learn

[@Jay_hates_his_readers]

it sucks because theycan clearly draw!