It Has Begun. Nintendo Is Going For Palworld..

[@__-fi6xg]

if nintendo wins this case, it would open up all nintendo games to get sued for patent infringement, from patents made after the game released.

[@bloodred255]

If nintendo works the courts are too corrupt for that to happen

[@yagsipcc287]

Only in Japan none of this works outside of Japan.

[@Bayofthe91st]

The villain finally made the move (Cue music; Sarabande by Haendel)

[@Hewesesm]

@@yagsipcc287 but it do work outside japan, why'd you think they send their cartel members internationally

[@Spartan1312]

It would kill the industry in Japan because this would never fly in the US or EU...

[@duobizarrobizarro]

Do you imagine if movies and books applied copyright like this? Like LotR copyrighting the whole fantasy concept with elves and dwarves and dragons. It's f*cking nuts.

[@Ignirium]

Or movies, lol!

[@lawrencebrink6958]

I have to say the patents being used to sue them is annoying but the suing is legitimate because let's be real they literally took the entire game and just changed one mechanic essentially. Like your LotR reference would be more like if another movie company remade LotR but renamed the characters. Imagine AVENGERS from Warner Brothers but Thor has a different name. You can't steal entire IPs but if they had created there own "Pals" then that would be entirely different. With that said, I hope this causes Nintendo build a better Pokémon game cause they have been lacking

[@BLOODREDGENERALWUKONG]

@@lawrencebrink6958 No, it's like if another company made a movie about orcs and elves and wizards and dwarves. They're taking overarching mechanics, concepts, they're not using Pokemon Characters or names or anything, they're just making a game LIKE Pokemon. They even want to patent getting on a monster for fast travel, it's ridiculous. It's just an anti-competitive practise designed to crush small companies and competitors from becoming popular. Can Burnout copyright car games? Can GTA copyright open world car and crime games? Actually if they side with this, YES. It's absurd.

[@BLOODREDGENERALWUKONG]

@@lawrencebrink6958 let's ban all soulslikes, they're like dark souls, CMON MAN, get lost with that.

[@zenthien6731]

@@lawrencebrink6958 The one mechanic line seems pretty false going by some friends I have who played pokemon. Also the LOTR fantasy scenario is a good analogy. You bringing up "they didn't even create their own pals" is not mentioned anywhere in this lawsuit that I've seen. Curious as to why you brought that up.

[@kylespevak6781]

8:39 Stop calling it copying. Creature collecting is a genre. Pokemon is a JRPG creature collector Palworld is a survival creature collector This is like Call of Duty suing Fortnite for having guns

[@tommyfortress7515]

tons of mobile games are Creature collecting. i dont see them being sued.

[@ScrambledAndBenedict]

Hell, the Mon Genre heavily oversaturated. The concept of "people form bonds with fantastic creatures, and combat is creature to creature" has been done to death. Digimon, Yo Kai Watch, Bakugan, Monster Rancher, Jade Cocoon, fucking Fighting Foodons, hell even games like YuGiOh could be considered to be in that genre. It's been done to death. I'd argue that Palworld is actually more removed from the genre than most because it also allows the human to fight on their own and involves survival and base-building mechanics.

[@D3adCl0wn]

This is why I laugh every time someone denies Palworld as a "Pokemon" game, forgetting that Pokemon has been the defacto term for monster catching games, no different to Xerox, Google, or Band-Aid. Palworld in a way can be called "Survival-Crafting 'Pokemon' with Guns".

[@Nimbus3690]

lol not at all like call of duty suing fortnite for having guns. This is copying. We all know this. If you deny it, you will lose us the battle against Nintendo.

[@betorockmetal]

This is like Doom suing everyone for being First Person Shooter games....

[@dovos8572]

the sad thing is that the ball throwing patent isn't even the most rediciulus one. they have a patent about the mechanic to "show the player behind obstacles/trees as silhouette." 90% of 2d and 2.5d games have that mechanic in them.

[@AlexanderUbel]

The difference is in how it is coded. Though I do agree with you. It is ridiculous.

[@dovos8572]

@@AlexanderUbel that's the thing. these patents are "concept" patents and not "coding implementation specific" patents. the actual code doesn't really matter at all. or you could just use a different coding language and the patent would be useless.

[@Evan-i4e]

I mean Poke'balls are literally just colored baseballs with nets which have existed in Irl for a hundred years; it is the most annoying part of this nobody is talking about the fact Nintendo the largest company in Japan in same year Shohei Ohtani won the MLB and Yuki Kawamura almost beat wet bananas at the Olympics are trying to copyright patents with American sports way past the Disney 95 years Ip laws.

[@AscendantStoic]

​@@AlexanderUbel These patents have nothing to do with coding, just the concept.

[@notmyname6872]

Ridiculous* and good point!

[@pancakes3ful]

Shouldnt the whole industry attack them removing game mechanics is dangers to the whole industry.

[@gazirelseiryuu7229]

Do you wanna pick a fight with a bully that never lost?

[@MirrorBlood]

Its not a danger palworld deserves to be shut down they clearly copy pasted pokemon i hope Nintendo wins

[@quietcorner4694]

​@@gazirelseiryuu7229a bully who never lost will feel that much more devastated the moment he will lose since their pride and confidence is shattered. Never bow to bullies retaliate never make it easy for them.

[@wargamesmaster]

@@MirrorBlood Except they're not getting sued about that.

[@maidgardevoir1329]

@@MirrorBlood In that case, Nintendo should be sued, as most of their current game have game mechanics that isn't theirs.

[@axelolord]

Ah yes. Patent infringement over an idea of throwing a trap at a wild animal, all to reestablish a MONOPOLY over a genre. Why is it again, that we have dozens of shooter games on the market that compete with each other, but not so much when it comes to THIS genre? Or is taming animals also patented? Or animal fights? Or hunting? Pokemon is ultimately all derivative of pre-existing concepts and ideas from the real world and somehow people still think they OWN the idea, because they maintain a monopoly on it that they shouldn't have has in the first place. F em.

[@ferinzz]

The answer us yes. Nintendo's set of patents essentially to patent creature capturing games. Their patent also includes seeing stats on creatures end level stat screens transportation entities throwing an object in 3d space which can affect other entities in the space. This MAY include a capture device Funnily enough they do specify a lock-on feature, which Palword does not have. And thus it is a different system. nowhere do they specify what kind of shape the capture device takes.

[@kipolem53]

Um shooter games do not have successful TCG's or plushie lines or a literally store devoted to ONE title or a long running anime, not even Fortnite has any of this stuff. Pokemon is also like Harry Potter in that it has a MASSIVE amount of fanfics.

[@williampayne8876]

​@@kipolem53Did you know that Vaporeon......

[@Casted_Shadows]

​​@@kipolem53 Halo had lots of merch/funkopop crap/shows etc. War themes/guns is one of the most common themes in all forms of media, way more merch and media for war and guns than Pokémon, my guy. It's an entire genre that loads of companies, including non game companies, invest into. They have gun stores that sell only guns constantly everywhere, even Walmart. Not just Nintendo plushies and rule 34 crap. Shooter games are based off of war and guns. All of those things make infinitely more than Pokémon ever will. Lol. There's a new COD every year, and another eight shooter games, there's not a new Pokémon every year and it's exactly the same as every other Pokémon. Not every shooter is identical. Every Pokémon game is. Add all the money that "Shooter games" make VS the 1 Pokémon game 1 game studio makes every few years. Now imagine how much money would be coming in for the Pokémon genre if there was more than one Pokémon game. COD alone makes more than Pokémon, that's only one singular shooter game by one singular shooter game company. Pokémon doesn't even compare. Imagine if Tolkien copyrighted wizards, orcs, elves and all of the other fantasy creatures/elements he invented. Nintendo took concepts from other people and then copyrighted them, Tolkien made all of this stuff and let everyone else make fantasy worlds out of his ideas, and allowed them to be expanded upon. Harry Potter would not exist if Tolkien did the scummy crap Nintendo and other game companies do. Because they want to make a creative black hole that disallows anyone else from expanding upon the idea. No one in their right mind thinks Pokémon and palworld play the same, they just have overlapping concepts/themes. Just like Lord of the rings/Harry potter/literally every fantasy IP of all time does. No toy company, no business, no movie studio, literally nobody else tries to abuse IP's and copyrights the way video game companies do, it's disgusting that people even defend it when everyone throughout all of history has been borrowing ideas from eachother to improve things in every area of life. Technology is at its current point because of this, but we want to stall progress because Nintendo doesn't want their genre to be expanded upon like every other genre of every other video game has of all time? Lmao, maybe if they lifted a finger to try to make their products interesting and engaging, an indie studio wouldn't have randomly innovated their genre 10000% more than they ever will and made them look like the lazy overly safe fools they are. Video game companies are the only ones who think they have the right to ideas and are so adamant about never letting innovation happen. This is why the nemesis system is collecting dust, this is why Pokémon is exactly the same after 28 years, because companies are too lazy to innovate or put forth effort and also want to cry when someone else isn't lazy and does want to expand upon an idea.

[@MasterhpIke]

It's literally a copy of pokemon, be honest with yourself.

[@Hieronymus_Rex]

The absolute stagnation of Pokemon as an IP is what Nintendo SHOULD be focusing on, it is embarrassing how little the game has changed in the TWENTY EIGHT (28) YEARS since the release of the original games on the gameboy. Palworld and other games like it such as TemTem wouldn't even exist if Nintendo's mismanagement hadn't created a market for them. These games would die overnight if Nintendo just released a Pokemon game with full online functionality and a vast graphically-impressive overworld to explore, but instead Nintendo has decided to continue burning their good will. Nintendo fans do have a bizarre level of brand loyalty but everything has it's limits, and if Nintendo choose to continue on this route then they do so at their own peril.

[@anotherbacklog]

Palworld wouldn’t even exist if it’s not becos of Nintendo’s slop

[@petebagwell6666]

The games have regressed, they dont even run technically well, broken games they promised to fix, then actually made the game run worse and focused on shit dlc

[@chicoazteca]

Pokemon is fine, the problem goes beyond that the recent switch games are absolutely awful and the company has been eaten inside out by western hires and investors for all the DEI and woke stuff talk people really ignore the Pokemon switch games for some reason

[@leafstormblaze9449]

You realise pokemon games do have full online functionality, right? They constantly get online raids every month and tournaments.

[@feren9984]

Why would they switch it up. Their last games were laughed at by the entire internet and became the BEST SELLING GAME

[@StanTheWoz]

Nintendo really said "we made a bad game that disappointed our fans, and you aren't allowed to make a better one and make us look worse". Crazy that people still put up with this shit. No other game company has the amount of collective nostalgia that Nintendo does to make people ignore their toxic behavior towards fans.

[@garreonlefay6703]

I am almost 30 and I am still a Pokemon fan....not a Gamefreak one tho, I went to the Fangame community, they have the passion that GF has lacked for a long time. While they may not be able to deliver graphics, not like GF can deliver them either, they deliver in Fakemon and Regional Pokemon design, character design, settlement design and story.

[@zodwraith5745]

The only worse fans than Nintendo fans are Apple cultists. Nintendo makes some great games, but they're a lot of what's wrong with corporations controlling gaming today.

[@josebarbosa5704]

The problem is that the 30 yos who love nintendo since the 90s can't accept the fact that modern nintendo games suck so they will cry about everything that try something similar to them. And remember, nintendo is only suing them because they made a shitton of money, not because anything else.

[@CALAMITY0FHYRULE]

​@@josebarbosa5704 firstly no. Many of Nintendo's current first party games are fantastic, from all of its big series. Secondly, money is not the reason Nintendo's doing it. They're doing it (and this is only partly Nintendo, it's mostly game freak with Nintendo's name slapped on it) because Palworld edged them with the designs and they're mad. Legally can't sue for that, so they're gonna make sure that anyone who crosses their lines gets made an example. And yes its partly because gamfreak got their feelings hurt

[@Volyren]

Pocket-pair should just replace the pokeballs with distinctive, solid-green, flanged pipes. They store pals in the warp-zone. Pretty sure Mario never threw pipes.

[@PizzaCatSamurai]

What the Pokémon Company/Nintendo/Gamefreak don't realize, is i don't stop playing their game(s) because of Palworld. I stop playing the more recent game(s) because of bugs, sub-par performance and lack of support after a year. Palworld is its own separate experience that just happens to be more fun than most Pokémon games.

[@huyngo3086]

Sure their games are bad but if there no palworld, most people will automatically buy the new release pokemon games because there no better game in the genre. But with palworld a lot of people would think if it justify to spend so much money for an ass game. So Nitendo sueing Palworld is perfectly logical. They don't want to put efforts to better their game so that is so much money loss

[@mithril1584]

That's why they fight tooth and nail to prevent any even remotely similar game from coming to market, deny consumers the choice and make them buy their slop. I've not played a pokemon game since gen 6 and I regret buying gen 5 and 6.

[@Red_Steampunker]

I don’t play pokemon cuz of. No animations for anything really, doesn’t feel cool to fight basically. Npc’s are brain dead morons that exist for nothing but a quick buck with their lvl 5 caterpillar in an endgame zone. The world is so empty and never rewards exploration really. And if it does it’s a fuckin single master ball and like shit heal items. Pokemon are not all in one game at once, they keep locking me out of my favorites. Some think it’s to force you to like new ones, but I don’t care. Graphics are actually flatter than ps2 games, and with indie replicating the style somehow indie does it better. Story is shallow if even there, giving me no draw to play really. And they never say anything that’s too crazy. I literally can barely hang out and bond with my pokemon, let me fucking just hang out in open world with them more. Not just in a closed box, letting me do more than cook a sandwich and play a few simple games. Every game has new gimmicks, some are crazy cool like mega evolutions. While others are just stupid. “This one gives him a hat, with balloons” Damn crazy. Game is always broken as hell, meaning it’s hell to get immersed in. They want to make 2 games every year or two. The same exact game but slightly different cutscenes. Dude you double your work for no reason. Make one and I dunno make people choose or something, or mix them if you play right. Shiny pokemon as a whole is cool, but many are super lazy colors. So some get cooler, and others way dumber. Regional Pokemon are cool, to see some Pokemon change and adapt to their environment. So why is it only like 2-5 Pokemon max that change, there’s so many pokemon and only those ones changed. Insane. All in all, I want them to give more effort and build the Pokemon formula up some. I’m tired of gimmicks that leave in one game, I can’t find my favs in every game. The world doesn’t feel like it exists without me in the game. The og show and kinda does.

[@PizzaCatSamurai]

@huyngo3086 Yes, Palworld creates competition for Nintendo. TemTem caught my eye because of the same reason Palworld did. A Pokémon type experience, but maybe better. Or at least different and similar fun. And it is ofcourse logical for Nintendo to sue Palworld to protect their i.p. But i think that these types of moves make them look like villians and party killers. Hopefully they can see that themselves before they scare away all competition and most of their fans/players.

[@PizzaCatSamurai]

@mithril1584 those gens are great. Though i did love the 3D play of X/Y and the Ruby/Sapphire remakes. I played Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 1 and 2, and while playing i was always thinking that Pokémon should start doing that. And then many years later they did.

[@Kuroshineko]

The funny thing is that the idea of capturing monsters to battle isn't even original since shin magami tensei was released in 1992, while pokemon red and blue was released in 1996.

[@T_K7]

Sega's Crystal Warriors on Game Gear did this too (late 1991 release in Japan)

[@Athrein]

Pretty sure everybody saw what great idea the trap in Ghostbusters was and just moved forward from that. Gotta catch all the ghosts

[@Kojirremer]

To add my two cents, Dragon Quest V is also from 1992, and it was pretty much Dragon Quest Monsters' prototype.

[@IndianaBones24]

Just gotta probe they did it first, right nintendo??

[@ApostleOfZeus199]

SMT is still going strong too. Funnily enough I'm going through V now haha.

[@krisp422]

At the risk of this being mentioned later in the video; @3:00 Palworld actually did the catching monsters in a 3d space BEFORE Arceus. They did it in their game Craftopia, released in September of 2020 (before the patent Nintendo filed in 2021) So that argument by Nintendo also doesnt hold water

[@DefinitelyNotRin]

A game that looks directly copied from BotW. They just can't keep their hands off Nintendo's work

[@kachao2113]

​@DefinitelyNotRin like mods often the community knows how to make things better than the multi billion dollar companies. So yeah keep doing it.

[@lightynide]

@@DefinitelyNotRin I too remember BotW as a survival crafting farming game. Too bad Nintendo shamelessly ripped off Assassin's Creed in that it had a climbing system. Wish Nintendo would stop ripping off basic game mechanics and rendering styles and just create something New.

[@DefinitelyNotRin]

@@lightynide You know what I mean, you're just replying with a clown comment making an obvious statement we both know to be true that doesn't disprove anything. Thanks though

[@chrisparker2550]

@@DefinitelyNotRinbro why are you still on nintendos side? Inspiration is what this is, how else do you improve on the original?

[@Dendarang]

Lukewarm take: game mechanics shouldn't be patentable whatsoever. Period. Patenting game mechanics is as ridiculous as patenting mathematical operations and then expecting to be paid every time someone adds 2 and 2 together.

[@CornyPuddle]

If i remember correctly nintendo lost one lawsuit they initiated. They tried to sue blockbuster back in the day. They didn't want their games to be rented. They lost that one

[@arcadeportal32]

I do remember that. I really lived long enough to see Nintendo become this Anti-Consumer conglomerate like Disney..

[@Z2KR]

Nintendo is the ferrari of gaming

[@wargamesmaster]

They even were on the other side of a bs lawsuit in the 80's involving Donkey Kong & Universal Pictures.

[@wight4991]

They also tried to attack sega over sonic and the whole idea of "platforming" But it was too big for them so they agreed to a ceasefire. Now imagine if Nintendo had won, then literally no game would be existing nowadays

[@Luis-gz3oo]

*in Japan

[@kanaria-cu3uv]

nintendo kills palworld sony buys fromsoft this is truly the end times we live in

[@MoonLeigh-m7o]

The end will be when Microsoft buys Steam.

[@Zympt]

That'll never happen unless Gabe passes, probably not even then ​@@MoonLeigh-m7o

[@zombl337og]

@@MoonLeigh-m7o not gonna happen, at least as long as GABEN is alive

[@pewthepuny2849]

@zombl337og His age worries me.

[@zombl337og]

@@pewthepuny2849 yea fr, hopefully he has a protege to take over when hes gone

[@nullpoint3346]

Palworld didn't damage Pokemon, Pokemon damaged itself.

[@zeroraptor_]

I think the term Asmongold was looking for is gatekeeping. Nintendo is absolutely trying to gatekeep the genre of monster catching games to be exclusive only to Pokemon.

[@MoonLeigh-m7o]

This is basically how any big business stays in business. Whether it be through litigation, regulatory capture, etc., the common denominator is leveraging some form of government power to gatekeep private competitors. Pretty much the entire planet is fascist in that sense.

[@x149te]

Not quite. Catching monsters games co-exist even on Nintendo consoles. Nintendo themselves were publishers to Yo-Kai Watch. They fear to lose IPs because Palworld even using similar artstyle for monsters. If they did more unique Nintendo would never touch them.

[@MrDadeadone]

Maybe Atlus/Sega should sue them because they made monster catching a decade prior with Megami Tensei and like Pokémon those monsters can be digitised.

[@konnokyo]

@@x149te let's be real. some are so close copies and frankensteined versions that they look like pkmn.

[@konnokyo]

@@MrDadeadone with a ball? absolutely untrue. Megaten has no balls.

[@aibisi]

I find it ridiculous that you can even patent such thing as " the act of throwing a ball at a creature and catching it "... Its like a racing game getting patents for the act of crossing the finish line while driving fast... How does that make sense? I understand copyright over characters, worlds, assets etc... but this is crazy...

[@tillicumbeach638]

yeah its so stupid, imagine if every company out there starts to do the same thing and gettings patents for running, punching or jumping, i really hope Nintendo loses this one

[@NameNotAChannel]

Imagine this: Nintendo owns the patent to "Arrow above a car, pointing the direction to a destination." And they sued the Simpsons game that used that mechanic, and it's why racing games can't use that mechanic...

[@MirrorBlood]

Wtf are you talking about 😅you act like the act of trowing a ball and capture a animal was everywhere before pokemon😅 pokemon made that a thing so this bs finish line take is not the same i hope palworld losses

[@lkaryy]

​​@@MirrorBlood Its about if they win then everyone would patent game mechanics which you dont fucking want because if everyone patents like lets say hunting a monster tor some shit then monster hunter would be the only one creating that kind of game. It will kill game creativity because everyone owns a mechanic that is fundamental to create a better game

[@GReLLz2497]

I'm about to just start patenting stupid random things. I'll start with eating in video games​😂@@tillicumbeach638

[@venchergaming]

when i was a child, way before pokemon etc was out, i had a natural science kit that had a little spring loaded scooper type thing that you lined up with an insect, or a spider and it would shoot forward scooping the insect and trapping it in a clear plastic ball at the end. so by nintendo's line of thought, they are infringing on a patent that was created prior to their games since catching things with a ball was done before.

[@Zeppathy]

This would be as dumb as if Minecraft sued every survival game for using the "crafting items at a workbench" mechanic. Lol.

[@CZpersi]

Minecraft? You mean the game, which itself copied its core block mining and placing mechanic from another game, titled Infiniminer?

[@JacobBunea84]

⁠@@CZpersiPokémon? The same game that copied DQ and a bunch of other games that came out before 1996? 🤔 I’m seeing a trend here it’s almost like gaming is old and people can claim “inspiration” just like Nintendo would if Miyamoto was asked about the similarities to older games

[@GlobalOutcast]

​@@JacobBunea84damn, beat me to it

[@breakneck777]

Our game has a playable character on screen, you copied us too!!😂

[@daniellyons6269]

2:15 If you can get a patent for "throwing a ball at a creature to catch it" then Dragon Ball Z did that decades earlier with Capsule Corp.

[@ToonamiRevival]

hehe dragon ball for the win

[@milesprowr]

Ghostbusters comes to mind too

[@shadow_spark8788]

Abolish the fucking patents, this shit is damaging every industry it exists in by crippling competition.

[@Luizanimado]

Patent game mechanics should be illegal. What's stopping companies to patent "walking" mechanics and sue others? That's the problem with Nintendo, they don't like something, so they try to find a way to shut it down, even if that means abusing the lehal system.

[@prosbo]

It's to broad of a thing. A certain style of walking maybe but mechanics of a ball throw to catch a monster is to similar which makes the difference.

[@xodnoob]

@@prosbo Even a certain style of walking should not be patented. This leads to stupid law suits like this one.

[@Luizanimado]

@@prosbo even if it is similar, that should not count, Nintendo also copy the towers mechanic from Assassins Creed, or the paring mechanic from Souls games. Also Nintendo only patent that after the release of Palworld, making it even more stupid

[@NameUserOf]

Apple has patented round corners. When it comes down to this Nintendo is in the right here because other company copy pasted too much. They do it the wrong way to achieve justice.

[@Luizanimado]

​@@NameUserOf No, they are not, as I said, they patent this AFTER the release of Palworld, Nintendo also copy a lot of the Pokemons from Dragon Quest, so no, they are not in the right here.

[@peoplez129]

It's time for the world to revoke and disregard all Japanese based patents. These so called patents are of concepts soo simple, it's equivalent to copyrighting the word "the" and charging anyone for using it. It is clear Japan's system has become soo predatory that it simply must be disregarded entirely by the rest of the world.

[@StarforceOnAir]

About time somebody said this! Let the rebellion begin!!

[@teamofone1219]

Pocket pair needs to move to the states so they can claim parody laws. Then Nintendo can’t do shit about it.

[@renardnoir2581]

Nitendo has been a master of abusing the system as well. They are incredibly anti compete.

[@avandarkwalker9132]

I have a family friend working for the USPTO look over those patents, and he's baffled at how the Japenese can even pass them as paterns. It's ridiculous!

[@teamofone1219]

@@avandarkwalker9132 Yeah I don't know how they did it either usually you can't when games did it before you in Japan someone got paid under the table handsomely to get passed.

[@Kyzer_IX]

Nintendo just doesn't want competition. They want to stamp it out completely.

[@shita-m1m]

I'm Japanese, and criticizing Nintendo is not allowed in this country. Some people have even received death threats for criticizing Nintendo.

[@Rimmer7]

That happens outside of Japan too. Nintendo fanatics are a global phenomenon.

[@MysteriousStranger50]

Proof: I said so.

[@Verårtu]

Probably has connections to Yakuza

[@Zenith121691]

Balls out for palworld protest.

[@anotherbacklog]

And the most insidious part is, Nintendo know they have no chance in the US thus launching the lawsuit in Japan.

[@NameNotAChannel]

Craftopia pre-dated Pokemon Arceus (2021), where they already used this mechanic in 2020, which undermines Nintendo's prior usage claim to the mechanic. Nobody noticed Craftopia at the time. They don't need the GTA mod argument at all. However, 2 prior usages goes to bolster the legal standing of this mechanic being "already existing" in public usage, at the time of Nintendo's claim. The Japanese Patent office is at fault here (though Nintendo shouldn't be seeking patents on game design elements in the first place.) Also, Patents are EXTREMELY specific. The 3D space would preclude it from applying to the 2D 'simulated' 3D space argument. As for Pokemon Colosseum, there were no random encounters, where you capture Pokemon outside of combat. That is another required element for this Patent issue. The dishonorable practices of both Nintendo and the Japanese Patent office are on full display.

[@x149te]

Craftopa mechanics differ from Arceus and avoid patent

[@drakidrakan9262]

@@x149te not really, you trow balls mit % mechanik based on life, it just they go in to your inventar

[@tesladrew2608]

How does crafttopia do that

[@sirreoser5668]

Has also been a thing in ark since 2015 when they introduced the tech tree (Cyropods).

[@snintendog]

@@tesladrew2608 It had a Pokemon mechanic and Palworld started as a Craftopia Expansion. Same engine and everything until they scrapped it and went Unreal. In Craftopia you have the aiming trowing and usage of Prisms in a 3D space that can capture ANY NPC or monster. This Mechaninc was in the game from the begining of Craftopia and got updates multiple times with PC box Functionality and everything But the Biggest issue in regards to ALL THREE of these patents is this specifically. CRAFTOPIA ALREADY DID IT BEFORE LEGENDS ARCEUS EVEN STARTED DEVOLOPMENT. We already have the EARLIEST leaks of Arceus and at the time it had NONE of these mechanics in the 2020 builds of it. The Lit added shit that Craftopia had after Craftopia went on sale... and its almost one for one with the craftopia updates to arceus builds. Feak leaks have proven without a shadow of doubt Gamefreak infringed on Craftopia.

[@duanefouche378]

Fun Fact: Pocketpair themselves used a Spherical capture device in a fully 3D world / open field before Nintendo. No need for GTA V at all. Craftopia had the mechanic in it 2 years before Legends Arceus was released. There are so many mechanics in common between Craftopia and Palworld that Pocketpair basically just copied themselves.

[@maxodidily]

I remember a Bakugan video game from over a decade ago where you aim a ball in a 3D space to throw it onto a metal card and then the ball turns into a monster. Also a great game irl.

[@jokingback3000]

Yea, I remember that game, pretty good

[@mrturbo84]

What about TemTem?

[@umbratherios5614]

Oh heavens, bakugan battle brawlers, I loved that game to bits... still do...

[@mogaming163]

Peak

[@espadose]

@@mrturbo84temtem isn’t a competitor since it barely had a player base anymore . Palworld was doing big numbers so ofc Nintendo wants to take them down

[@ebmar]

Palworld already changed some of the mechanics. The pals will spawn right beside you, can't throw them anymore

[@whitedragonzerureusu4480]

This needs more likes, the change sucks :v it's less fun to throw out your pals now and this screws you over in battles

[@dotflann]

Thats so dumb, such a shame :"c

[@JRueben]

@@whitedragonzerureusu4480 its not like they had any choice, their hands are tied. they also said this will change with the bigger update this month, so this is just temporary.

[@WolfofnoStreet]

It's an admission of guilt already. Seems like they already lost and Palworld will be changed for the worse in the next few weeks/months. It was a great game when it launched, glad I was there to experience it.

[@Rudgged]

@@WolfofnoStreetyup, if you change something you’re being sued over before you’re even in court, you admitted wrong doing.

[@TheHollowBlade]

Funny how nintendo goes after palworld but ignores Nexomon which is basically just pokemon reskined. They only hitting palworld because it was successful it feels like.

[@D3adCl0wn]

Too successful that they expand similar to The Pokemon Company. No other IP in the monster genre grew as such, up until Palworld with Palworld Entertainment Inc.

[@Zso-VIII]

So palworld changes it to something else to no longer be in breach, but adds in the ability to add player-made mods to the game, and then a player makes that mod to change it back.

[@konnokyo]

if you want a ceise and desist letter from nintendo. or your mod won't even be accepted. and yeah both has already happened.

[@HypercomboProduction]

​@konnokyo The Cease and Desist was for a mod that changes every npc and creature to something from the Pokemon anime. Turns out that mod was also, being sold to players. The irony on top of that was that it used stolen models from games like Revolution or Scarlet and Violet.

[@niaford690]

There were only 2 reasons that the mod was able to be taken down: 1. They stole the assets, instead of re-creating them personally. 2. They locked the mod behind a patreon donation paywall, monetizing pokemon for themself. Skip those 2 and it would 100% not have been a clean cut victory for nin.

[@Martyn_Lawson]

Let's be real.. Nintendo are pissed because Pocketpair made a better pokemon game than Nintento did.. That's all this is

[@n0denz]

Palworld's a pile of shit though. It got popular based on the "Pokemon with guns" gimmick. That's it. There's no interesting gameplay there.

[@Fiufsciak]

​@@n0denzYeah... sure... Cause everyone who plays it is a masochist who likes uninteresting things

[@wight4991]

And now imagine being Nintendo for getting so pissed at a "pile of shit" that they literally created a whole ass patent months later after palworlds release. And by doing so opening Pandoras Box for all the other big companies just waiting for the go to attack Nintendo the second they win their case.

[@konnokyo]

@@wight4991 well craftopia, pocketpair's first game ripped, not copied, rippied botw enemies and painted them over. what do you expect. now pocketpair also uses their capture formular (you can read it in the lawsuit) 1:1, maybe they shouldn't have done that. maybe they should have done something original once.

[@Martyn_Lawson]

@@n0denz No point bringing a subjective view. if this were the case, it wouldn't still be popular.

[@user-jq3jh7hp2w]

I know it doesn't matter because I'm 1 person but I've been a Nintendo fan since I was a toddler. Even being dirt poor growing up, I always saved for the latest Nintendo system and had one. I can't continue to stand by this company with their relentless anti-consumer practices. If Nintendo was a smart company that cared about progressing their games forward, they would have tried to aquire PocketPair instead of trying to delete them. I'm all set from here buying and supporting Nintendo products. I'll just continue to play the games they used to make back when they were a respectable company. I am tired of the fact that the majority of news I hear about Nintendo is regarding corporate greed and litigation.

[@Raven.Mad.Hatter]

Yeah I have a love hate opinion of Nintendo now, I've always loved that they tried something different and didn't prioritize graphics and all that that the Playstation do. Their games where fun and interesting but their attitude as they grew bigger just really hurts their brand, sure protect your work and characters but don't go on a warpath and alienate your fans. Though I'll still probably be buying Nintendo consoles and games simply because it's cheaper then the PS series consoles.

[@azuth11]

Pokemon is perhaps one of the least innovative game franchises in terms of new features they add from game to game. Nintendo is sour that Palworld ate their lunch by added more features to the base concept of the game than Nintendo would have added in 50 years.

[@Ushiwakamaru_BAU_BAU]

Remember: It's always morally correct to pirate Nintendo games.

[@masterdyeapp4512]

Not playing their games is the best way. Even if you play it for free. They still get the attention they wanted. They still have merchs, shows, movies and other thing in thier sleeves.

[@pingunata]

Nintendo is rich man's insufferable, entitled child.

[@ventisimywife]

Don’t tell me that you “morally” pirated palworld as well that just zero aura

[@Ushiwakamaru_BAU_BAU]

@@ventisimywife is Palworld a Nientiendo game? Nope, I play it with Gamepass

[@SamM_Scot]

I despise this moronic statement as I'm happy to support Nintendo devs. Sorry, but I want great games made not trash like Concord, Dragon Age The Veilguard and whatever the hell Xbox is craping out of late. I'm also not gonna be supporting Sony Californiastation with their bias censoring against Asian media while trying to control entire anime industry like another truly awful Disney scenario :-)

[@Mirakelpung]

Copying and being inspired by something is not stealing. To quote The Simpsons, "If no one ever copied The Honeymooners, we would never have gotten The Flintstones".

[@Tazandd]

What i love is that Nintendo isnt sueing for copyright, the one thing EVERYONE was saying theyd sue for. Its for game mechanics of throwing a ball at monsters lol.

[@MoonLeigh-m7o]

They're goint to patent Italians next and get Assassin's Creed 2 pulled from Steam.

[@rebeccaconlon9743]

Which the irony being is that that mechanic was way before pokemon

[@EhurtAfy]

Which is not unique either, dozens of games and mods do that, well before any Nintendo patents. Nintendo shouldn't have been able to obtain patents for things that are widely used in the industry. Ark has "cryopods" for storing dinosaurs, PocketPair also has Craftopia which has "monster prisms" same catch and store mechanics as Palworld, Coromon has "spinners", Cassette Beasts has "tapes", Temtem has "temcards". It's a very specific patent Nintendo is going after, there are dozens of other monster-catching games that precede Pokemon like Shin Megami Tensei, Dragon Quest, etc.

[@konnokyo]

also the formular of how to calculate this. palworld uses the same formular as pkmn.

[@Daddylugosi]

walking is a game mechanic and they werent the first ones to do it….essentially they could be sued for using a walking mechanic

[@Emeric62]

I hope they got destroyed in court because their patents came AFTER Palword. This is fraud and I hope they have to pay billions.

[@Halfort57]

IF Pocketpair lose, then All they have to do is to patent the mechanic of having a mount "in a 3D open world" to give Nintendo a taste of their own medicine

[@justanobody0]

it should be illegal to file a patent after a game exists and then sue them over a patent you filed after

[@gigaburgerer]

The parent patent was obtained long before palworld dropped. It was a patent made in 2021, in preparation for Pokemon Legends Arceus, Fortunately for us and Pocket Pair, their previous game, Craftopia, had the same catching mechanic as Palworld and released in 2020 lol.

[@CALAMITY0FHYRULE]

​@@Halfort57ocarina would steak that

[@aleronbane8080]

@@gigaburgerer 'cept that Palworld has been in development since the middle of 2021 or so, or at least first announced, and while it did release at the start of this year, that's still three years of time that Big N could have shut it down but didn't, only when it got to be as big as it is right now.

[@springfallendeer7236]

One problem I've had. Palworld did not STEAL anything from Pokemon. Palworld is an intentional PARODY of Pokemon, at least where the creatures are concerned. The similarities between creatures and designs are intentional. Because it is a parody. In the same way that parodying a song of Michael Jackson is not theft, the various Pals in Palworld are a parody of Pokemon. The whole game is a meme about how fucked up Pokemon COULD be if Nintendo would just rip off the bandaid and get more creative with the brand. If Palworld had stolen anything, this case wouldn't be happening. Nothing is theft. It is intentional and legally distinct parody made to flip the bird at Nintendo while saying "This is what you could be if you had balls". Whereas every phone game that sneaks in a Pikachu or a Charizard into it is just committing blatant (while being completely unaffiliated with Pokemon/Nintendo) is just committing blatant theft.

[@Froggy_Bomb]

Are they REALLY trying to claim fcking MOUNTS as their own patent???

[@SloRush]

If they copyright that, the entire game industry would be affected not just Palworld..

[@usr45129]

Not gonna happen

[@michaelcrow6943]

Didn't final fantasy 2 come out in 1988 and you could mount chocobos in that one? So if Nintendo is claiming mounts then they can get sued by square enix.

[@wight4991]

I mean if they get through with the lawsuit, then Bintendo also has to attack Square for creating "World of Final Fantasy", which cam out 2016 and is literally just pokemon and even has the same catching mechanism as pokemon, with it's own Pokeball popping up whenever you've successfully catched a creature. But it would be pretty hypocritical from Nintendo if they only created this patent to ONLY attack palworld and no one else right? Which would make their whole patenting system pretty much illegal and would legally allow the entire gaming industry to attack Nintendo left and right.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

​@@SloRush USA Copyright Law doesn't work like that.

[@xXBoogiepopXx]

Technically MegaTen is the original monster catching videogame from '87. Dragon Quest didnt have any monster catching until DQV in '92. Both DQ and Pokemon lifted the concept from MegaTen.

[@lexmortis5722]

You need to waltz into the courtroom in a lavish cloak and proclaim this truth posthaste

[@KazeMemaryu]

Correct, but that's not what Nintendo is gunning for. Their claim is "aim and throw a ball at a creature to capture it in an open field" is stolen from Pokémon Legends: Arceus.

[@konnokyo]

you do not store them in balls in any of these games.

[@Halfort57]

​@@konnokyo Palworld doesn't have throwing balls, they use ovoidal objects. By your logic, you just admitted that Nintendo absolutely shouldn't be making this lawsuit

[@polterghost_]

Technically Persona is a JoJo game

[@jewii3824]

I just wanted to share some of my patent law knowledge and my 2 cents on this case (I'm a law student in an ivy league law school). Disclaimer though: I don't know anything about Japanese law, so I will be generally talking about US law and pretending that Japanese law is similar. This said, thanks to the TRIPS agreement, the standard for patent law is similar in most member countries. Also I'm happy to answer ppl's questions to the best of my abilities in the comments. 1. first, I agree that this lawsuit is a war of attribution. I don't think Nintendo has a very good case, but if they can drag the case on and on, Palworld is likely to want to settle due to legal fees mounting up. 2. Asmon is wrong that settling or paying is an admission of guilt. At least in courts, any previous settlement agreement cannot be used as evidence as admission for guilt. This rule is of course made to encourage settlements (I assume Japan has similar rules). Although, to the general public who are unfamiliar with the law, perhaps they see it as an admission of guilt (even though it's not legally true). 3. regarding patent filing date: Bellular said at around 2:37 that patent filing date does not matter, what matters is the invention date or the date you put it out. This has not been true in the US since 2013 (the AIA, which was signed into law in 2011, gives the person who filed first the patent), but it's totally possible that Japan still has the "first to invent" rule. 4. the protection or monopoly you get from patent is time limited. In the US: it's 20 years since the filing date (under the AIA), and I presume Japan has similar rules thanks to TRIPS. You also CANNOT extend patents, and if you don't file a patent in time, you lose your right to even get any patent protection (this isn't relevant here so I won't expand on that). This means, for example, if Nintendo had some kind of patent on pokeballs, that patent has long expired since pokemon was released more than 20 years ago. This said, you can file for what's called improvement patents that's dependent on a prior patent, but even doing so, you ONLY get patent protection for the improvement, NOT the prior patent that has expired and is now in the public domain. 5. this is addressing Asmon's comment at around 16:00. He has good intuition about derivative works, but he's unfortunately misguided, and mixing copyright law with patent law. Under copyright law, the copyright holder has the sole right to any derivative work (e.g. translation, making a movie version of a book, etc.), this means any derivative works created by anyone other than the copyright owner would be infringing on the copyright. This is NOT true with patents. You can make all the derivative (or typically known as improvement) patents as you want, as long as you don't manufacture or sell the patented product. I'll provide an example (an example that my patent law professor loved to make): lets say you invented a compound, lets call it Compound X. You invented Compound X to be a blue dye, and you filed it as such. Then, your nefarious competitor buys Compound X, studied it carefully, and discovered that Compound X can in fact be used in cancer treatments, because it has cancer curing properties. Your competitor can then go to the patent office and file an improvement patent on Compound X for the cancer curing properties. That's totally fine.

[@JodyBruchon]

*Software patents should be abolished.*

[@cookingpot3990]

It isn't even Software patents, they are concept patents. So, even more ridiculous

[@NameNotAChannel]

Yes, it's as if writers could patent verbs or tropes. Ridiculous and stifling creativity.

[@JodyBruchon]

@@cookingpot3990 They are but a core component of them is "on a computer." Being on a computer doesn't make something that's not patentable suddenly patentable. I think most of these patents are invalid because they take simple things, slap "have a computer do it" on it, and pretend it's an "invention."

[@ONeLessName]

Funny bit is. Nearly every mechanic used in Palworld is some way in Ark. More so than a Pokemon game, as last I known. We don't use guns in Pokémon. Funny thing is. I don't see Pokemon going after Ark and it's counter parts.

[@monody]

There's more blunt titles like Dokimon that Nintendo won't go after either. It's just that the developers of Palworld (Pocketpair) are Japanese and subject to Japanese patent laws which Nintendo is abusing.

[@MikeyJ28]

You know, if Nintendo instead acquired their competitors, they wouldn’t be known as the company that stifle’s innovation. The last 3D Pokemon game I bought, I legit feel like I was scammed.

[@anotherbacklog]

If Game Freak did something about the recent Pokémon slops there won’t be so many people defending Palworld. The lazy animation in 8/9th gen was never fixed. For those who are interested there’s a channel “moon channel” where a lawyer explained the legal side of it. The true objective of Nintendo is to hinder Sony’s effort of turning Palworld into a multimedia franchise and directly compete with Pokémon.

[@Vikingskog]

Yea, apart from a couple of minor things the Pokemon games havent really been inventive since like 20 years ago. If anything i enjoyed the older games more because they were actually somewhat difficult. They completely owned that niche and thus got lazy and greedy.

[@bruhverlybruh4012]

Remember sun/moon where they removed real obstacles and just put an adult with a barricade to tell the kiddies they aren't ready. So dumb.

[@wight4991]

It is also flabbergasting that they already did more dynamic animations back in the early 2000s with stadium, coliseum and XD. But since it wasn't Game Freak themselves who made these games and them just being way too stingy with their budget, it's no wonder why everyone is constantly shitting on them nowadays.

[@EhurtAfy]

I mostly agree, especially about Nintendo viewing Palworld as a danger to Pokemon. But, Palworld is basically just Pokemon Arceus, but with multiplayer, basebuilding, and guns. Firstly, I'm no hater of Palworld, I wishlisted Palworld three years ago and played it 300 hours with 100% completion. However, I notice more things Palworld "borrowed" from Arceus each time I play it. Arceus lets you ride, climb, fly, gather wisps, catch with several balls, catch multiples to increase "research" levels. Palworld also added outbreaks with an update Overall, I think Arceus is a much more polished experience than Palworld, but it's single player, has no basebuilding, and it's targeted towards younger audiences. One big difference is that Arceus has great stealth options with tall grass, smoke bombs, stealth spray to catch unaware pokemon. Arceus also has a much better story and NPCs than Palworld. I also prefer turn-based combat to real-time, but real-time is simply more popular, that's definitely part of Palworld's success Big thing with Pokemon is transferring seamlessly to other games through Pokemon Home. That's a big thing Pokemon has going for it, I am still using Pokemon I caught 15 years ago which is very cool. But, Palworld lets you actually put your pals to use and see them working for you which is great! I think the next Pokemon Legends Z-A is going to be a very good game, Game Freak is taking their time with that one

[@konnokyo]

okay, yeah if nintendo would give them more employees and time, maybe. they have to do 2 games every 2 years. how exactly do you think they should do that. it's not the devs' fault.

[@BLOODREDGENERALWUKONG]

Nintendo Stole Capturing Monsters from Shin Megami Tensei I in the 1990's.

[@bergerblancsuisse.]

Open source Palworld and let the community show Nintendo what's up.

[@fairest_w]

Typical Nintendo.. Becoming worse than Sony

[@n91312]

Sony has been a stellar company for like 20 years, they just started abusing their market position like 2 years ago.

[@NESLO-e8c]

Too bad no one will care as long as they make good games. Not good pokemon games tho, pokemon fans will buy them regardless.

[@jobanajoestar435]

@@NESLO-e8c there is no good pokemon game for more than a decade thou

[@JacobHarris-g5r]

Sony is allowing Light of Motiram on PS5 though

[@D3K018]

Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo... Don't know which one is worse anymore...

[@augustday9483]

Nintendo has become a patent troll. They need to get a smackdown before this becomes standard practice. Imagine how fucked up the industry could become if every big AAA company starts patenting every game mechanic and taking ownership of entire genres. This sort of thing needs to stop right here, right now, before it spreads.

[@kokocaptainqc]

meh...if they do theyll kill gaming as a hobby as a whole.....oh wait maybe thats the endgame here

[@potatoknot6464]

Traps are different from what pokemon uses. A trap generally refers to a passive response to capture an animal, you lay in wait for an animal to get caught in a contraption you set up with bait in advance. Pokemon's approach is different, the player initiates a fight with an animal, or the other way around, and after bringing the health down to low, you have a chance to store the animal in a ball, and if successful, the ball will jiggle 3 times. Nintendo didn't patent a trap concept but more like a specific sequence of actions representing a capture concept and with a specific ball shaped item as well. It's not like Nintendo is going around saying you cannot use traps or capture animals.

[@pattycake520]

A regular trapping method, such as setting a trap down and capturing the Pal in it, or by giving them enough food to tame them, such as in Minecraft, would've fit better with the survival concept Palworld has. The Palsphere shouldn't even be in the game.

[@02brother]

come on, palworld. you can do it...

[@MirrorBlood]

No they cant they need to lose f palworld

[@xfeerman]

@@MirrorBlood man... it sure feels nice to pirate botw and totk.

[@qu1253]

If I worked for PocketPair, I'd be sending out resumes right now.

[@Vittrich]

@@xfeerman i will pirate TotK just to delete this 20 FPS piece of shit...

[@np153Garlix]

You would love Palworld if you actually played it.

[@RikkiNakesone]

Then there's starbound where you throw a ball at a monster and capture it... 10 years ago? Not a mod, either.

[@nyaboron9239]

Except that starbound is in a 2d space so it doesn't breach the same patent. If palworld argues that Nintendo didn't do it in 3d first, they could insist that they invented the 2d mechanic, and that they did *that* first, and perhaps try to sue starbound too. This whole thing seems really flimsy but idk Japanese law. It seems like the patent office doesn't care and figured "of course nintendo invented it, they're a huge company".

[@MRK-t4x]

Lately, I think we have seen a trend towards players unifying (mostly) and boycotting/down voting companies who do shady things, force agendas, or work against the consumers best interest in favor of only their own. I had often thought well of Nintendo but after this and some other recent things I'll never buy any game from them again. There are too many good games to bother supporting a company which definitely doesn't have my interest in quality innovation at heart. It may seem small at first, but I think if enough players start to push back with their wallets even a company as big as Nintendo will take a big enough hit in image and financial gain to reconsider action like this. I'm under no delusion that players can bankrupt a company as historically massive as them but we can take enough profit away to ensure launches don't go well for them as far as earning back the insane cost of developing their games.

[@animegx45]

It's not so much that Palworld damaged Pokemon, it's more like they opened an already existing wound. For the last few years, Pokemon has been criticized for the lact of of innovation and growing stale. Palworld basically scratched an itch that was being ignored.

[@emanuelstornello8009]

Nintendo has been trying to shut down ROM hacks for years because they offered what Nintendo didn't, an alternative, and they hate palworld for daring show the world their dirty laundry. Nintendo sucks I honestly hope they tank even though it's probably not gonna happen in my lifetime

[@RolyPolyGames]

The plan definitely is to claim ownership of mechanics and charge people money for stupid things. Its the game equivalent of forcing people to pay a patent for cars having for wheels and steering wheel. Disgusting to see.

[@megaman37456]

Which is illegal in the states.

[@janzibansi9218]

while im fine with having a patent for a while (like 7 or 10 years), but at some point in the not so far future the idea should become part of the collective knowledge. that said, we be throwing balls at creatures for over 30 years now. if we wouldn't do that, the vengeful spirit of some neanderthal would constantly sue me for crafting rope.

[@Jinkypigs]

​@megaman37456 LOL not with your lousy, lazy incompetent USPTO.

[@megaman37456]

@@Jinkypigs Look I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like the US government isn't the entire circus industry that never learned how to be funny, but it is illegal here, there are very few cases of patented game mechanics in the states, and those are hyper specific mechanics, as in greatly detailed in how they work. The patents Nintendo showed would never hold up in a court in the states, Hell some are even under the belief those patents are so vague they wouldn't even stand up in a Japanese court.

[@SloRush]

Warner Bros did this with the Nemesis System in Shadow of War/Mordor, copyrighting the game mechanic just to NEVER use it.. So stupid.

[@FireEatingNinja]

It's more about showing that indeed the throwing a ball mechanic to catch in an open world isn't specifically Nintendo's original idea. That's an innovation that is now provable to not have been theirs. Yes, they do own the characters and art from Pokemon. However if I made a game with a Pokemon skin, then when hit with a lawsuit change the art to comply away from the pokemon brand, I still innovated the mechanics of the game.

[@symmetrie_bruch]

95% percent of all patents should never have been granted in the first place. imagine if dark souls had patented their system, we would missed out on so many great games.

[@BrandonDenny-we1rw]

Patents and copyrights have done nothing but hold humanity back. Its genuinely sad to see

[@TwistedChaos4428]

@@BrandonDenny-we1rw It started with good intentions, but we all know the path those pave....

[@MoonLeigh-m7o]

I agree in principle but part of me wonders if we wouldn't be better off without every single game copying soulslike mechanics for the past 10+ years.

[@jimmyv3170]

@@symmetrie_bruch Nintendo would sue FromSoft because Dark souls is an action RPG like Legend of Zelda

[@jimmyv3170]

Nintendo would sue FromSoft because Dark souls is an action RPG like Legend of Zelda

[@StatesideBeast]

Stop buying Nintendo products.

[@Masyokan]

That ain’t happening.

[@4PlayerCardGames]

Palworld already threw out a update that addresses some of these concerns. Now you dont throw the ball outwards when summoning a pal, they just appear next to you. Also took away the middle icon thats supposed to show you where your aiming until you get ready to capture a pal or zoom in on a bow, making bows harder to aim in some cases.

[@Dharkgaming]

I’m unsure about the GTA comparison, but a better example would be Pocketpair's early game Craftopia, which came out in 2020. In Craftopia, there was a Prism you could craft and throw at creatures to capture them. Craftopia was basically a test for Palworld, and thus the premise was set back then. Pokémon Legends: Arceus came out in 2022, so Pocketpair already had the system in place two years earlier in a different game. So unsure how Nintendo seems to think they are right here??

[@djangodjango5694]

Did they file a patent for it though? Because if we were to go purely on JUST doing it first, Pokemon still got older games and media. Law's super fucky

[@NameNotAChannel]

@@djangodjango5694 Unless Nintendo has a prior 3D game using this mechanic, nothing in their 2D library counts. Patents are VERY specific. This is a matter of the Japanese patent office failing to do a proper check of prior usage.

[@Yomotomen]

@@djangodjango5694yeah, the patent is a part of the product that is arceus, this is why people mention, they would have to change the terms of the suit usually to do something like that, which favors palword atleast in this one instance palworld may alsohave an advantage on the precedence front, games like ark and craftopia also were doing this for a while and weren’t sued, which means that nintendo isn’t properly enforcing their patents, which could be grounds to lose patent control, sadly this is us based speculation and it’s a japanese trial, if palworld really wanted to get away with it, they’d change the balls and move to the us in terms of office hq, nintendo would have to sue on us grounds which has a far better chance of fighting and winning, but i think it may be too late to even try that.

[@slipinslider]

Also it was a prism not a ball

[@slipinslider]

Go ahead and reach but not when I'm here

[@O-Pringle-O]

I think asmon is forgetting the fact that it wasn't the property being discussed but the mechanic

[@PureFuckingMetal6632]

If the pokemon company and nintendo are mad at Palword while themselves couldnt or didnt wanted to innovate their ip for DECADES its THEIR fault.

[@williambyrd8416]

Nintendo has lived long enough to see itself become the villain.

[@andrechaos9871]

Nah, they do not see themselves this way - they see themselves as saints.

[@JohnDoe-ug3su]

They never change its just you guys finally see the hidden side

[@Krawurxus]

It's just that this time they made a move very much out in the open, on an extremely popular target. Nintendo has always been like this but usually they stay out of the press with their legal shenanigans. They are and always have been absolutely cutthroat and unscrupulous when they perceive any danger to their profits or trademarks.

[@jimmyv3170]

They were always the villain.

[@Nikopteros]

Im pretty sure everyone already knew you cant play around like this with Nintendo's IP's everyone knew nintendo would put your project down. Only difference is people actually really liked this one

[@va_fix3266]

1:01 No. Pokemon damaged itself, not Palworld.

[@Archangelneos]

I hope Palworld wins cause Nintendoodoo/Gameflop needs a a serious reality check. Also I disagree Palworld stole anything from pokemon except combining and making a better designed pal. Also that whole "anubis is lucario" is bullshit cause both too inspiration from the Egyptian god yet both look completely different. If thats the case then every "Anubis" character in any game are copies.

[@bebe8090]

Really what they did was use a similar art style to Pokemon. I don't think most of the Pals would be considered ripoffs of Pokemon if they were made in a different art style. But art styles can't be patented or copyrighted. So none of this is stealing. You can maybe say inspired by, but not stolen. Thank you friend.

[@Archangelneos]

@@bebe8090 I know but thats what asmond said. I would completely get it if it was the actual pokemon models taken and colored differently and then sold as a "new mon" but yeah it is ridiculous how people were getting upset that a indie game out shined their slop.

[@camel_of_the_mojave8772]

Hey so when can I patent having empty space that is air in a game so I can sue every game in existence retroactively😂

[@NuchiAsaki]

Every game becomes a space sim because there isn't any air in space.

[@jokingback3000]

Na even better, patent the existence of gravity in gaming, will kill 90% of the gaming industry alone with that one. Even better, patent the existence of moving pixels on a screen. You'll be the world leader after that one.

[@camel_of_the_mojave8772]

@NuchiAsaki damn I'll have to patent a vacuum as well thanks for pointing that out I guess I'll probably have to patent water while I'm at it

[@onam3000]

Palworld should just replace the balls with cubes then dodecahedra, icosahedra, soccerball type polyhedra etc. See how far they can get to having a ball without having a ball just to piss off Nintendo

[@lightningv4210]

but why do they want to piss off Nintendo ? i mean they already cant make their own ideas, shouldn't they at least try what they can to move away from what Nintendo has ? to have some sort of creative dignity ?

[@OverTheTaco.]

Why can't Nintendo come up with its own ideas why does Nintendo keep making platformer games.​@@lightningv4210

[@wight4991]

You talking about "not having their own ideas" while also talking about Nintendo sure is contradictory on itself. When was the last time pokemon had done something "new and innovative" outside of >not< Nintendo companies creating better Pokemon games than game freak themselves? Oh and can't forget about Super Mario (enter name here) 3D titles who are following the very same formula for about 30+ years by now? And the concept of walking around an overworld and having random encounters with enemies to fight does seem like dragon quest or Final Fantasy to me. Also if they are so butthurt about a JP company "ripping off" their game mechanics, why didn't they attacked Square Enix 8 years ago when they released World of Final Fantasy? If you don't know what I'm talking about, just look it up on KZbin or steam and you will see what I mean

[@Dante_S550_Turbo]

i was thinking they change the shape, but they let players customize it on the client side, with a sphere as an option.

[@missblueh5314]

Honestly, the only thing I can compare Lucario and Anubis to is the fact their 2 canines that stand on 2 legs. . . I literally don't know why people are comparing those two like their the exact same (Or maybe I'm just blind, lol).

[@fio_lume]

14:15 "The Switch is underpowered" The Switch has Xenoblade 2 and 3 and MH Rise, Pokemon has NO excuse to look this garbage AND perform like ass while seeping with horrible design choices and having none of the bare minimums a popular multibillion dollar franchise like that should sport, like proper high quality in-engine cutscenes, voice acting, stable 30fps when more than 3 characters are on screen more than 10 meters away from the camera, fluid gameplay transitions, proper combat animations, access to all the creatures in the franchise, having their product at least LOOK finished when it launches at full price before trying to hook you with DLC, just to name a few...

[@buttersmclovin5300]

In Ghostbusters they throw something that catches the ghosts and that predates pokemon. This shit is so lame if nintendo wins.

[@TheSixthSLoT]

Patents are more specific than “something.” The Ghost busters are throwing a floor trap. This patent is specifically for throwing a spherical object at a creature to trap it.

[@brysonsharp5199]

Not for nothing, but this seriously makes me angry. I'm genuinely inclined towards never buying another Pokémon game again, and I've been playing them since Red version.

[@jeycalc6877]

Pokemon is the one who copied dragonquest, Nintendo are thief's suing Palworld for doing what they did LOL. And yes they are not suing over character design but they are still suing over copying so they are being hypocrites

[@kyrozudesoya1829]

You mean ripping off and dumbing down Megami Tensei?

[@Ushiwakamaru_BAU_BAU]

Pokemon mystery dungeon kinda copied Digimon World 2 too yeah they improved it but it's a copy nonetheless

[@roberts3423]

The creators of dragonquest should sue pokemon, fat stacks of cash waiting.

[@kaasbaas2607]

its not about being right, its about being rich

[@Sonak584]

@@Ushiwakamaru_BAU_BAU The game "Torneko's Great Adventure: Mystery Dungeon," released by Spike Chunsoft in 1993, was a success and later led to the creation of the "Mystery Dungeon" series. Pokémon Mystery Dungeon was developed as a collaboration between Spike Chunsoft and Pokémon, following this lineage. While I'm not familiar with Digimon World 2, I think it's likely that Digimon World 2 is a game that took inspiration from the Mystery Dungeon series.

[@roberts3423]

If nintendo had the brains they would have made a good pokemon game and released it on steam.

[@wargamesmaster]

I would have loved to play a Pokemon game on PlayStation or XBOX.

[@MegaManJake]

They don't make the games themselves. Game Freak does. Pokémon is jointly owned by Nintendo, Game Freak, and The Pokémon Company.

[@konnokyo]

@@MegaManJake but gamefreak is not deciding anything.

[@archives2876]

Nah, they love to keep everything they own on there crappy console.

[@fracturedraptor7846]

Nintendo is mad because Palworld embarrassed them. They've been pumping out the same damn game for decades. Someone comes along with something new and it hilariously out performs their thing. So their response is to try and shut it down because they don't want the competition. Rather than innovate to make Pokemon the better option they want to keep producing slop and kill competition as it comes, make it so the slop is only thing available. It's like if Blizzard tried to take down Rift or Wildstar because they did the MMO experience better. That's all it is. If they shut down Palworld for copyright then they need to self delete the entire Pokemon series, everything. They stole it from Dragon Quest. That would be my call as a judge. If you really want this win then I'm holding you accountable to the same letter of the law.

[@Kagura259]

The fact is, the move of attacking Palworld alone, is enough to make me ignore Nintendo from now on.

[@cherryfiiore]

Same, cancelled my Nintendo online subscription which I've had for years. Not buying another game by them ever again. Enjoyed Palworld way more than any game Nintendo have created in years.

[@Bashbekersjiw]

​​@@cherryfiiore BS Better then Pokemon yes but for evey game Nintendo produce no palword Is not that good ot onlu got famous besocuse Is Pokémon with guns period....bye Nintendo Is still a greed Company

[@A-TALKING-TOASTER]

I don't know why they're so hell bent on being the Disney of gaming

[@MegaManJake]

​@@A-TALKING-TOASTERNinty aren't anywhere near that yet. Until they start treating their franchises as bad as Disney with Star Wars, THEN we make that comparison.

[@LandoHitman]

I love these videos. Glad Zack uploads them. Edit to add that Ghostbusters from the 1980s did the pokeball/capture thing first. They'd weaken the ghost with the proton pack and then slide the trap out after they'd weakened the ghost sufficiently. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.

[@kyrozudesoya1829]

HOLY SHIT THAT'S RIGHT

[@NameNotAChannel]

This particular patent is for capturing pokemon outside of combat, before combat begins. Patents are extremely specific, so this doesn't help the case... however, Craftopia, the prequel to Palworld, already existed with this mechanic, as well as the GTA mod shown in this video... and real life nets to capture animals.

[@jimmyv3170]

Whoever owns the Ghostbusters IP should sue Nintendo because that's Luigi's Mansion lol

[@WTFYI]

Problem is never about the game itself, it’s about palworld selling themselves to Sony to make merch. Pokemon IP generates the majority of their revenue from merch not game, as such Nintendo is trying to undermine Sony’s attempt to steal this multi billion market. By the way do you know almost all mobile games can be sued by Nintendo one way or another? NDS itself holds a copious amounts of patents around touch screen interactions.

[@the_intolerance]

Nintendo knows they can kill a fan-favorite game like this and all they have to do is create some new games, like Zelda and Mario, and the gaming community will move on and just forgive them. They've done a lot of terrible shit in gaming and it's like they have those flashy things from Men In Black, they snap it and everyone forgets what they did.

[@kyrozudesoya1829]

That isn't true. Tears of the Kingdom hasn't sold as well as they hoped (and you can tell because it was son sale but Breath of the WIld wasn't). Their IPs are coasting on fumes, which is why Nintendo is doing this to Palworld. If their IPs were healthy they wouldn't need to kneecap their competition.

[@caliburnblade7895]

Because their fanbase are sheep.

[@anotherbacklog]

Nintendo still make good games. Echoes of Wisdom is pretty good. Nintendo didn’t even complain when genshin ripped off breath of the wild. The problem is the Pokémon slop. And Nintendo don’t know how to make it better.

[@AnonUser-b6y]

The issue is Nintendo cannot make Pokémon better, it’s partially owned by game freak. Game freak have never made a good 3D game, and even their 2D games were stale by the end. Nintendo cannot do anything about that, so they are going after palworld instead.

[@kokocaptainqc]

to play Nintendo games you kinda gotta be 12 and under tbh...at least mentally

[@hughmanatee7626]

I really want the nemesis system open for everyone to use. There is so much untapped potential that WB alone would never reach.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

DE Warframe has it. USA Patents are not a broad brush of protection.

[@oceanbrown7159]

What is a nemesis system

[@crossc1988]

Nintendo initiated lawsuits against PokeMMO, multiple times, and lost. They do not have a perfect record. Come on Asmon, this is basic noob knowledge. Also "anything created by fans is proactively owned by the original company"???? Hello? Dota 2 is calling you asmon. And yes, it does apply. It is a similar situation. Why? Because all companies now-a-days learned from Blizzards mistake with dota. All companies own the mods made for their games. Its standard practice now. SO if Rockstar files a patent, citing the date of THAT mod, then they effectively trump Nintendos claim. And pokemon colosseum doesnt apply to the patent, because it doesnt use catching mechanics. The pokemon are already caught. (It also released in 2003, not the 90's)

[@realmetatron]

Dragon Ball has capsules that function like pokéballs and this was invented before Nintendo did it.

[@ToBHyeX]

7:05 tell ‘em how it is asmon.

[@bocogaming]

You shouldn’t be allowed to patent game mechanics.

[@needlewind9053]

It's so stupid for Nintendo to claim Palworld is stealing aspects of Legends Arceus when Legends Arceus steals many aspects from Monster Hunter. I recently bought World when it was on sales and damn, Here I thought the only comparison would be the hunting areas, I was so wrong.

[@voluntaryjerry9835]

15:56 this is Patent law not IP law. IP has nothing to do with it. Just a simple fact that someone somewhere created this mechanic before Nintendo could be enough.

[@tranquilclaws8470]

As an American law student who just finished a course in Intellectual Property, this made me laugh. Patent law is a part of Intellectual Property... In fact, patents are a type of intellectual property, just like copyrights, trade secrets, and trademarks.

[@voluntaryjerry9835]

@ yes but in this case I believe asmon is treating all IP like its copyright law. He shouldn’t dismiss significance of the GTA mod. It might still be a Hail Mary since it is Japanese court.

[@MikeC-nu7ty]

Fuck I hate Nintendo. One of the few AAA companies to keep pumping out quality content. But this shit they pull is repulsive.

[@iPanicyt]

This is very bad. It's like a cook saying that a ingredient is patented, and it ends up being something as common as salt or pepper. The sole fact palworld has guns is alone enough to change the dish completely. It's like going from a vanilla icecream to a homemade chocolate icecream, sure they used a lot of ingredients that the vanilla icecream has, but the sum of all the parts are greater and also different from the individual parts combined.

[@violet-trash]

15:15 they aren't suing based on IP infringement, they're suing purely on game mechanics.

[@sirreoser5668]

If that's the case Ark which released in 2013 had capture/ throwable balls in a 3d since 2015 (Cryopods) when they introduced their tech/ endgame tree.

[@mandalorianmanic9525]

Hot take: Nintendo can ban Palworld and have it taken down so we can have a bad second-rate product from the "professionals" if they reimburse everyone who bought a copy of Palworld and pay damages to Palworld's devs for lost income. Makes sense to me. Or just leave Palworld alone and have real competition to make your developers actually have a challenge again instead of giving us slop like Pokemon Violet and Scarlet. Those games were trash, nobody can convince me otherwise. And I bought three copies of the game! (Two as gifts, one for myself after being pressured, and barely got 15 hours of playtime before the terrible writing, lazy animation, constant lag, and boring gameplay broke me.)

[@Anonymous4045]

Completely disagree with your first point, completely agree with your second. The solution for competition should not be to write a big check to magic the other product away, it should be to innovate and develop a better experience than the other so people want to buy it instead.

[@filipvadas7602]

The problem isn't the lawsuit, but rather the reasoning behind it. If Nintendo wins this it opens up a whole can of worms on what concepts can be patented. "The act of throwing a ball at a creature to catch it" is such a broad concept that nobody should have the "rights" to it. Even funnier is that Nintendo isn't even the first to do this concept. Off the top of my head, Shin Megami Tensei had this game mechanic before Pokemon was even a thing...

[@hamish015]

It's like trying to pattern the walking or running cycle in a game

[@wight4991]

They tried but lost

[@1000Gamernerd]

People like to point the finger at Microsoft and Sony for scummy practices, but in my opinion, Nintendo is right up there with them. In fact, they're worse.

[@ChaosSwissroIl]

There is a difference between copyright and patent; the mod being a derivative work doesn't matter for patents, only copyright. Patents are required to be novel. The GTA mod proves it isn't novel. The patent is void as a result.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

Under USA Patent Law, true. Asmongold is incorrect. It's not like USA Copyright Law where Asmongold is right.

[@noonenowhere877]

You should not be able to patent a game mechanic.

[@fluffypinkpandas]

fuck everyone i will force the entire industry to improve by copyrighting and patenting the “crosshair is fixed to the center of the screen and turns with the camera” aspect of 99% of FPS games out there and issuing lawsuits to COD and indie devs now ppl will be forced to make the crosshair move just ahead of - or behind the camera better yet. some devs will be forced to make the crosshair gyro controlled, and camera stick controlled, un-linking them completely some get technical with it and will now only keep a fixed crosshair if its Lower Thirded like in Halo and Hunt Showdown

[@annojance]

No one should be able to patent anything. A free market is one without intellectual property dictating what people can and cannot produce. The only valid IP is trademark because it doesn't prevent production of things, but rather the labelling of things in a way as to deceive consumers as to who produced it.

[@fluffypinkpandas]

@@noonenowhere877 i should patent aiming mechanics in fps games like right trigger bringing sights up to your eye and crosshairs staying fixed to the center of the screen

[@shinyluxray012]

Pokemon shot itself in the head with Scarlet and Violet. Palworld capitalized on a gab in the creature collecting genre. Imagine Activision suing Ubisoft because XDefiant had guns like Call of Duty

[@DarkXessZ]

I am pretty sure any game that someone throw a rock at a creature can also save Palworld too lol.

[@bag_of_pixels]

it's basically a grenade, so, all the fps games

[@DuoMaxwellDS]

The worst thing about this is the Japanese playerbase supporting Nintendo more than Pocketpair in this case. There won't be enough pressure for the lawmaker to even think about what's right or wrong.

[@MirrorBlood]

They should support Nintendo bec Nintendo is right t palworld lazy devs

[@nezo1813]

​@@MirrorBlood Nintendo just be hitting that copy paste button for their games. If we're gonna talk about laziness here

[@anotherbacklog]

This is why Nintendo initiated the lawsuit in Japan. To be fair Palworld did shamelessly ripped off Pokémon and many fans ain’t too chill with it.

[@Sonak584]

We Japanese can directly read the words and behavior of Pocket Pair’s CEO in Japanese, and his bad personality really comes through. His behavior on Twitter is the worst for a game creator. When paying homage, there must be respect for the original work, but they use designs with no originality-almost certainly AI-generated (as evidenced in his development diary)-and when this is pointed out, they play the victim. This is a way of acting that Japanese people dislike the most. We Japanese interpret this lawsuit as not targeting the system aspects but rather as a reluctant move to sue for other aspects because it’s legally challenging to target the designs directly.

[@xenn4985]

​@@Sonak584 Can you cite the law that says "when paying homage, there must be respect for the original work"? Because if you can't, nothing you said matters.

[@Jack232010]

Limiting creativity over this is stupid. Maybe Nintendo should make a better product.

[@Davipo]

"Stolen" is definitely the wrong word. "Inspired" is more like it. Stealing in this case would be to copy the assets. They came up with their own designs. That is not stealing.

[@Rudgged]

Ah you people, he’s using the word in general. Like Digimon stole Pokémon’s name

[@fire-hawk]

No, 'stealing' works here. Adding a hair or changing the color to a slightly different hue, is still the same design.

[@Davipo]

@@fire-hawk Show me where they did that. Or give me a monster name, I'll look it up myself.

[@kaizerkaeden9473]

​​@@Rudgged Digimon came out before Pokemon you goof 😂, get out 😐