Confronting DCS Deep cycle systems. getting sued

[@Kevieb0y]

"There hasn't been a single DCS customer denied warranty in the history of our company. That doesn't make any sense, and would be against our vision" - WTF?? I'm one of those customers that was denied warranty, until I had to take them to civil court (NTCAT). What a false statement! Happy to show you the email trail with Paul/Michael and the painful process I went through to prove otherwise..

[@JimmyCall]

That's because DCS didn't validate the warranty claim, even though the NT Tribunal did. You're misrepresenting the situation clearly. I have no affiliations with DCS. I wonder if your wiring was also dodgy and resulted in your blaming DCS?

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@JimmyCall No denied warranty claims because DCS didn't validate the warranty claim even though the tribunal did? Sounds like a double fail to me!

[@JimmyCall]

@@annpeerkat2020 Do you grasp that warranties only cover certain conditions, like manufacturing fault, not customer damage.

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@JimmyCall Are you suggesting the customer took an axe to the battery? Or do you have a different interpretation of "customer damage?" One that varies from an independent authoritative tribunal?

[@JimmyCall]

@@annpeerkat2020 So if you spill coffee in your laptop, you think you're validated to get a warranty claim? Same with batteries, if you wire them up incorrectly and stress them, warranty may not cover that situation..

[@tonyf7997]

“In theory “ Stephan Fischer did the 4x4 community an honest and true review! Thank you Stephan! We will not touch them and that is now sentiment in a very large national 4x4 club after many people having issues getting warranty while having NO battery . PS - how dodgy is DCS not having an address where customers can attend?? This in fact is a great vid for Stephan to fight his battle.

[@JimmyCall]

No he did not. He was incompetent. Damaging the review batteries. Then DCS out of good will gave replacements, for him to damage then again. The noob used wrong gauge wire in between the batteries. Depleting the 5 year life span to under 3.

[@tonyf7997]

@@JimmyCall - come on - seriously? Takes a lot to damage a good Li-ion battery. Also , multiple people have had issues and if in fact the batteries were damaged , it is the company DCS who failed to ‘educate’ the end user on how to take care of … 🤦‍♂️

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@JimmyCall Apart from lithium batteries being damaged by heat in an under bonnet environment... how did the reviewer damage batteries?

[@JimmyCall]

@@annpeerkat2020 He used too low gauge wire between batteries, causing constant balancing events, and therefore reduced life span. He may have also put switches in between batteries, which is a no no. Like isolation switches. Then factor in the extreme washboard/corrugated roads driven on, and heat. He took five year rated batteries to 2-3 years.

[@tomorrow6]

@@JimmyCallrighto. So effectively they’re no good for long term real world use in rural Australia l. Disappointing - especially when we thought these might be longer lasting replacements for lead acid batteries in a variety of roles. But looks like the tech isn’t there quite yet

[@BlaktruthBeck]

I work as a remote area nurse and drive my Troopy all over Australia alone. As a woman traveling alone, I would have had massive concerns about the shopfront that didn’t exist and a guy asking me to meet him at a park around the corner. I would have insisted that we stay in the busy car park and if he had refused I would have been forced to prioritise my safety and just go get a different brand of battery “off the shelf” somewhere. I am a pretty tough lady but I’m not silly enough to meet a strange guy in an unmarked van at a park. Very creepy, glad my batteries are not DCS. After seeing this - they never will be.

[@kymhaniford]

I think he had lollies in his van tho! :) ROFL

[@BlaktruthBeck]

@@kymhaniford while somewhat amusing and although I would have backed myself in an altercation with that dude, I would ask that you try not to make too much light of the reality that women do have to consider their personal safety in a way that most men have not experienced. I assume that you would discourage your wife or daughter (should you have either) from avoiding situations where they are meeting sketchy people who request that they move the meeting to a less busy location.

[@fun0537]

@@BlaktruthBeck I'd discourage my son from doing it, stop acting like it's only a woman only problem, as if men never get assaulted by other men.

[@Accretion-Ranch]

Quite simply, “let’s meet at the park two streets over” is something I’m prepared to hear from a stranger meet-up on Facebook marketplace. That this is how a “business” is run, well, they might as well have spray painted “free wifi” on the van and offered me lollies. Forget it.

[@stubbiecap]

Quick fix to lithium battery dramas is to stop taking so much shit away "camping" as you people call it. Have personally done weeks out nowhere with an Engel and just the one 120amp/hr battery. To much electrical shit required to get back to nature these days.

[@cyclemoto8744]

This is the most convoluted after sales service I have ever observed. In my opinion, this is a clear demonstration of a business attempting to hide something.

[@paulsz6194]

Sounds like they are trying wear you down so that you give up and simply wear the cost & move on...

[@Pedro-ju7tp]

I work with a guy who has returned 2 sets of two under bonnet lithium batteries from DCS. From your park meeting, it sounds likely that they are just ordering a battery from China and slapping their DCS brand stickers on the batteries and just an online middleman man making a mark up on pricing. Watch DYI solar with Will Prowse where he strips down a DCS lithium battery for more insights of batteries quality. Worth the watch.

[@supashark72]

MaxLi battery co ltd

[@cyclemoto8744]

There's nothing wrong with an oz business ordering pre-built batteries from China. The concern is (as you've stated) whether those batteries are "off the shelf" or designed by the oz business. Old mate from DCS appeared to have very little knowledge of the non mecanical components of the battery. I nearly got duped into buying their batteries 4 years ago and very happy I did not.

[@AquaMarine1000]

Yes, indeed, an informative video.

[@RealButcher]

And with an old "not suspicious" van... very suspicious indeed..

[@phillipruus1812]

​@@cyclemoto8744there is an American guy who tests and pulls apart batteries and they are also now trying to sue him after he said he would never buy or recommend the product. Dying his testing the battery he was sent had shocking build quality

[@angusmcguckian7314]

I bought a 200AH DCS for my camper and when it arrived it would discharge but wouldnt accept charge. DCS were really difficult to deal with, were defensive and it was a lot of work just to make arrangements for it to be sent back. I was using Enerdrive chargers and they were actually substantially more helpful with helping to diagnose charging issues for a battery that wasnt even theirs! Took around 4-6 weeks to get a replacement from DCS. If I had my choice, regardless of the quality of the batter, again I wouldnt use them just because of their customer service.

[@trevorspeedy6333]

Yep and if you have an issue with Enerdrive you can ring them and a extremely knowledgeable guy on the end of the phone helps you out.

[@angusmcguckian7314]

@@trevorspeedy6333yeah exactly!

[@jamiegarton1967]

If DCS didn't have a bad name before suing SF they sure do now. It may even send them broke.

[@MikesDIY]

All of their North American distributors stopped selling their products except for one in the US and one in Canada. I'm sure it's just a matter of time until those two feel the pressure. I've been watching every video I can find about their lawsuit and giving them thumbs up to attract morw attention to them.

[@JimmyCall]

It's a difficult market. DCS tried to claim drop in replacement space, and it's failed, as too many have poorly installed the batteries and blamed DCS. They needed to not only sell the batteries but also do the installs.

[@jamiegarton1967]

@@JimmyCall how can it be a wiring issue when it is a drop in replacement??? You take the old lead acid battery out and you put in the DCS battery, it only has 2 terminals!

[@JimmyCall]

@@jamiegarton1967 Yes you're correct and these DCS users have near no problems in that case. The people complaining are those that have connected up leisure batteries in parallel. A la Stefan with 10-12 AWG wire, and the latest video. You can have two batteries, but you must have good thick wire, like better than the BMS can output, like 100A - 200A 4/0 AWG rated wire. Then no devices in between, like isolation switches that build up resistance in the device, or are poor manufacturing, and can't handle current. Like many of the 500A isolation switchers on eB can't handle 50A and have inherent resistance. Therefore your two batteries wont balance and will be frequently levelling - the reason behind the shorter lifespan and cell failures near end of life.

[@jamiegarton1967]

@@JimmyCall If the DCS system is relying on both batteries connected to the alternator having the same resistance to simulate a single battery that is a joke and is almost impossible.

[@roh5876]

I think they could be preparing to close down their business. They just don't want to announce it yet. I wouldn't want to be a DCS customer or creditor right now.

[@davidewhite69]

probably was expecting a quick payout from their defamation case before shutting up shop thinking Stephan wouldnt fight it

[@wadehughes8986]

Nobody in their right mined would ever deal with DCS based solely on their legal proceedings on Sefen, let alone all the dodgy stuff you hear, including the car par deal you guys experienced.

[@steveallen1340]

He opens with “Wait till you hear the full story”. Honestly people that say that when there is nothing preventing them from telling their side of the story are full of it.

[@InvisageStudios]

All the people who never heard of DCS until they sued someone ->

[@boatbeard7767]

And all the tens of thousands of us now who will never, ever buy anything from DCS.... Way to crush your own business into the ground - suing Stefan probably one of the more stupid things seen online in recent years.

[@missingMBR]

A couple of years ago I'd considered buying one of their lithium starter batteries once I wired the starter to the cab. There was no way I was leaving a lithium battery in the engine bay. But either way, I'm glad I never went ahead with them

[@richardq7290]

the fact that you had to meet in a public PARK suggests they are as dodgy as hell...how friggen amateurish is DCS

[@christiancabanski3831]

back in 2021 when everyone was still hyping DCS, one of my DCS batteries shat itself and I got to see their 'factory' when i rocked up for the exchange...its was a freaking small garden shed in his backyard.

[@matgee8892]

@@christiancabanski3831 I don't actually think there is anything wrong with running a small business out of your shed. Plenty of great businesses run from small sheds or storage units. But trying to hide that fact and telling people a fake business address is dodgy and makes me think everything about this company from top to bottom is lies.

[@jordanhamilton2523]

the only time ive been ripped off buying a car, the bloke organized to meet away from his address... just like this

[@jordanhamilton2523]

the only time ive heard of someone i know suing for defamation, the person suing was dodgey

[@JimmyCall]

No it does not. Many businesses don't have store fronts these days. If there wasn't hysteria/falsehoods over DCS then he probably would have let them come to the warehouse or his own home.

[@henrya1051]

I am so happy I dodged a bullet and didn’t listen to the electrician recommending these things . I instead bought a set of Invicta lithiums and cannot be happier, no need to meet in parks for warranty claims to be listened to or be discussed. 🙄 Interestingly, I have heard that that same electrician no longer recommends these batteries.

[@allanpower8041]

So now it's not just drug dealers that meet you in a park!

[@teo224]

Not all heroes wear capes…thank you for protecting consumers and honest KZbin reviewers…doesn’t have to be like this if you’re honest about your product

[@offroadoffshore153]

The bottom line is LifePO4 or LFP batteries should not be located under the bonnet and used for cranking purposes. They cannot handle both the heat and being kept at 100% State of Charge and particularly at the constant charge voltage produced by automotive alternators. The outcome at best is accelerated capacity shrinkage and End of Life (EoL) or a catastrophic failure at worst. Any manufacturer or reseller who ignores this are simply marketing something which isnt fit for purpose.

[@scottcovo]

DCS are not the only manufacturer of under bonnet batteries. I have searched and cannot find a single failure of an Invicta under bonnet battery anywhere. I could be wrong.

[@offroadoffshore153]

@@scottcovo Invicta only warrant against capacity shrinkage if it exceeds 70% which is 10% below industry standard of 80% End of Life. Utilise pouch not prismatic cells. Will not give their 7 year warranty for under bonnet and starting purposes and reduce it to 3 years. This and not issuing defamation proceedings against their critics is largely why they don't feature in dispatches like DCS.

[@Handleyman]

100% correct!

[@brooksy2093]

Never had an issue with my DCS E80 under bonnet over the years & the Y62 has some of the highest under bonnet temps.

[@WoobAu]

Can't argue with the matter of heat but I dare say a lot of cars would have their batteries constantly under 60c .. regarding your other points there are definitely batteries out there that are fit for cranking and charging duties. FPV Power does a lithium hybrid with supercapacitor and built in charger and they're a heck of a lot cheaper than DCS. Personally I think my solution is superior however, I run ONLY a Supercapacitor in the engine bay and keep my lithium in the canopy, with a bi-directional charger in between to keep everything hunky dory. This also serves to raise the voltage at the rear of my car to 14.4v while running, meaning that the voltage drop to my caravan DCDC charger makes it far more efficient than if it was running back to engine bay.

[@robwiltshire8236]

Good shout out for SPS spare part solutions Mt Tamborine - quality guys there!

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

He was a top bloke who was just trying to run a good business. We actually needed some parts to get rays car running again with only one battery instead of 2 so we bought some stuff from him as well.

[@gtags84]

and i thought they were dodgy before!

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

It was a very odd experience that’s for sure

[@tonygrey3340]

Appreciate you uploading the video. While you have summarised how you thought about the exchange, you also put enough info into the video for the viewer to conclude. WOW, independent journalism lives.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

That’s what I wanted. I just wanted to show what happened and let ppl make up their own minds

[@goldfools5445]

Cut your losses, walk away, no point stressing. Deal with someone reputable.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

Rays come to terms that he may of lost his money. But he is happy to try

[@repairman2be250]

Everyone report to fair trading.

[@freefunlovin1]

@@Australian4x4AdventuresI see you have a bit of Itech world behind you. Have you had the batteries long and what’s your thoughts? I’ve recently installed the 240AH.

[@gonegliding2966]

Will Prowse does a good breakdown of one of these batteries. As for how business is being conducted, very questionable!

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

Yeah I’ve seen his video. I wanted to try and get to the sauce itself

[@Ramjet7777]

@@Australian4x4Adventures was it tomato or bbq?

[@trevorspeedy6333]

Yes and as he stated, a poor quality Chinese build

[@andrewcox710]

I'd say old mates importing cheap Chinese lithium batteries, wrapping them in company logos and selling them out of a shed at home to reduce overheads and double (or more) his outlay costs.... Looks dodgy AF

[@phillipruus1812]

That's exactly what they are doing a American guy pulled one apart and they are now trying to sue him as well I believe

[@MickH60]

@@phillipruus1812 They can't sue an American, It just won't happen....

[@Thund3rcrash]

Haha good luck to them. ​@phillipruus1812

[@kadmow]

@@phillipruus1812 - ha ha, was that Will Prowse - he wasn't too bubble wrapped. DCS state(d) they have active balancing -"mill spec" - ?? etc - on their website / advertising - ?? the "drop in replacement" units??, The WP teardown appeared to show a passive system - as I recollect.

[@matgee8892]

Yes that is what they are doing. Will Prowse did a tear down and found some pretty interesting stuff including issues that could possibly lead to fires or failures. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3-rhYF5gJd-i7c

[@tacklecraft1971]

Anyone that does business in a park is dodgy as @%#$. I would just walk away from those batteries 100%.

[@aaroncopson6711]

I would want my money back, not new batteries.

[@bentheguru4986]

There was more shadiness in that meeting than was coming from the trees.

[@roocrew86]

This appears to be the beginning of a business collapse

[@JimmyCall]

Yes it's a shame as most of the issues are customers fault, whipped up into hysteria on social media.

[@rodertera]

​@@JimmyCall the root of this issue is DCS taking a bloke to court about a review. Are you saying what happened to Stefan's battery set is his fault, or are you conflating that with all of the stories coming out of the woodwork? You forgot to take your DCS work shirt off mate.

[@JimmyCall]

@@rodertera I think the trouble is Stefan used the situation in his own business pursuits of KZbin, to denounce DCS, damaging their brand immensely, making a legal dilemma that DCS had to pursue. The best way forward would be for DCS to keep up customer service and make light of the installation mistakes. DCS has been pretty good at replacements and inquiries.

[@kevinfisher1345]

@@JimmyCall "The best way forward would be for DCS to keep up customer service and make light of the installation mistakes." You clearly know nothing of Stephan situation if you are implying this. Smh! It was installed by a professional, nor was that even the first set. So it was installed by a professional as per DCS instructions ... and still failed to keep SoC for an adequate period of time.' The best way forward would be to not misrepresent the capacity and stats of their battery so they would not have so many batteries needing to be warrantied. That is a horrible business model to have such a percentage of its product needing to be warrantied due to its own product stats. The standards of that product is simply atrocious and comes nowhere close as any other similar products out in the AU market currently. Every other single brand out performs DCS by a huge margin in AU. As also noted by AU government department report. And which has nothing to do with installation mistakes. Simply the quality of its product which is horrible.

[@Nightlifeimages]

​@@JimmyCallyou're dcs on a throwaway account

[@Corey-pd3mi]

Missed opportunity. You were never going to get any sort of answer to the SF question, the question should have been “why did you have us come to a store you know is not your business and then have us meet in a park”

[@jonnomunro3513]

I had the exact same issue and they replaced with ext reams, then took 14 months to get the replacement 130ah battery.

[@christopherguy1217]

DCS isn't acting like an honest company would. That DCS had such a poor result in the testing for the Australian government competition with their entry appears to be constant with these batteries. I can't see how this company will survive with all the negative publicity they brought on themselves.

[@dogg15]

That was more like a fb marketplace deal. They could have at least been wearing company shirts.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

Only way we’re were half sure it was someone from DCS was that the number plate on the van said DCS

[@dogg15]

@@Australian4x4Adventures yeh that’s not how good businesses operate.

[@translumination2002]

You're a legend. Going straight to the source & giving them a chance to tell their story. They're dodgy as shit.

[@einfelder8262]

Why didn't one of you follow the van? You would have found the "business" is run from a shed in a run-down backyard. However, your video 100% supports that Stefan is telling the truth about the crap DCS batteries. I'm sure this evidence that the batteries are rubbish will be included in the hearing. Please make sure Stefan gets a copy :)

[@braddavis43]

Time to put in a claim with the ACCC, illegal business practices

[@t-dog8528]

Accc are only a filing cabinet, useless. From Accc We accept and record reports of information about business practices and behaviours that concern you. We respond to reports when we have information that may help you, or you have asked a question about your rights or obligations under the law.

[@alank616]

You'll be disappointed , and left empty handed .

[@fredericoespinoza]

accc is nothing but a waste of time.

[@Spookiiee72]

Wouldn’t fair trade be a better place to take this?

[@paulfalconer7613]

I’m getting mine done on warranty also I just sent them some screen grabs of the app and approved the warranty claim they have replied too all my emails and calls witch is great but also in the same boat waiting on stock.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

Good news that they are covering them under warranty as it’s obviously a known issue. Hopefully stock isn’t too far away for you guys

[@denisgately4701]

When I dealt with DCS, Paul was operating out of a shed in his backyard at Mt Tambourine.

[@supashark72]

Still is.

[@davidforbes7972]

Dcs going to be pissed when they see this video well done boys hopefully everyone boycotts the disgraceful company

[@-PORK-CHOP-]

IMO it appears DCS have a Chinese manufacturer make these at a dirt cheap price and just sell them at a massive premium, with maybe false claims by the manufacturer of how these can perform under bonnet (which Lithium cannot perform long term under a bonnet due to heat) a simple google search will tell you this, or DCS just takes the risk of warranty claims as they come in (which is what I think they are doing) hence the high cost of them initially to cover warranty claims, after seeing Will P tear the battery apart the internals are pretty ordinary build quality, eg: I can import 8000 cycle certified EVE Grade A cells x 8 so I can build 2 x 320Ah for a total of 640Ah delivered to my door for $933, put in a 200amp JK BMS, an off the shelf case and each 320Ah battery not 130Ah like the DCS will cost me $700 or $1400 for 2 x 320Ah, so DCS charging $3799 for 2 x 120Ah is MEGA EXPENSIVE, If I was a volume purchaser I would get another 20 to 30% off that price.

[@supashark72]

MaxLi battery co ltd 🤙

[@zarkov2324]

The importer is classed as the manufacturer.

[@fredericoespinoza]

you mean like every other product in the world.

[@mrchams]

DCS is in damage control... Thanks for sharing Aust 4x4 Adventures

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

Our pleasure!

[@Dasfun-f5n]

There were guys trying to sell speakers the other day down the park… he said they were legit too

[@craigtomkinson2837]

Lovely ep and chat guys, Glad you loved the Cape, I ve done 21 trips up in 42 years I love the Cape,

[@michaelbaker56]

That whole situation was sketchy as…

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

I agree. And it felt worse on the day haha

[@ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc3]

They're making the right noises, though it remains to be seen whether your mate actually gets his replacements in a reasonable timeframe. Fingers crossed!

[@visualjon]

That was painful to watch. What an embarrassing way to sink your own ship.

[@petermills1402]

The Dodgy Bros stakes just went up to the stratosphere. No address, no stock, meeting in park...... 2 Lithiums replaced by one cheap batt, $ down gurgler. Several weeks for testing and no contact. Owner conveniently on holidays. Really you should have kept one Batt, get it professionally tested and done a video on it or at minimum sent it off to Will Prowse (KZbinr whom pulls these things to bits) or maybe given it to Stephan.

[@biastv1234]

No uniforms, no merchandise, pens , stubby holders, no shopfront. But a killer website, is this the future of business 🤦‍♂️

[@joebloggs2635]

Unfortunately, yes it is the future for many companies. A website, and a warehouse for stock. And no stubby holders.... you'll have to ask at the drive thru for those.

[@LiquidAudio]

Great work mate, classic car-park footage! I made a video about this too. Let's not get sued! 😂

[@lauriecetinic-dorol8293]

Got a coffee and settling in to watch the dumpter fire

[@HDXFH]

Dumpster

[@VideoShowMeHow]

What the actual...!? This is dodgy central 😮 Super evasive, let alone the meet me in a park etc, zero branding etc.. Wild.

[@BeastMovies]

If you sell batteries that you produce inhouse, how can you have NO BATTERY STOCK? If I was them, I'd have pulled 2 brand new batteries off the shelf and said keep the old ones. Instead, they now look as shady as hell. Now they lied as well if this guy was denied warranty. 2 strikes straight off the bat. I did a replacement warranty in Germany. They paid for the returns and then 3 brand new products that were better than the ones I sent in. So happy. They knew these products were having problems with overheating and sorted it. That's customer service.

[@annpeerkat2020]

might be a misconception there.... difference between produced inhouse... and produced in a house....in china

[@cjgaucicharlie3226]

Without knowing any facts, and someone who has been working in the electronics industry for over 36 years, no chance would you install lithium batteries near a heat source without adequate cooling , and this would be different for every application, lithium batteries require constant monitoring during both charging and discharging cycles in addition during both activities produce heat which would require enough cooling to operate within their design limitations with some to spare.

[@jasonsimonsen4184]

Yup.. I completely agree. Zero cooling and in a pretty tough environment and they wonder why the batteries degrade.

[@lucamancini3147]

I’ll bet my right testicle that they’re going into liquidation.. dodgy as all getOut ! you will not receive new batteries.

[@tonymontana897]

I'm no expert, but we all know that lithium batteries are the most unstable, especially when they're in a hot situation. Why do you think electric car batteries have a cooling system ??? To place batteries under a bonnet of a car where temps are close to 60 -80 degrees, how do they expect the batteries to perform ?

[@sustainart5207]

Last time I looked at the ABN the GST registration was canceled. Importing without a GST number is not sensible economics.

[@Fanta....]

could probably just spin up another business name and start doing it under that.

[@ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc3]

There's a few ABNs. There's his sole trader ABN (GST registration cancelled), and the company he appears to do business under which is registered for GST.

[@WesternAustraliaNowAndThen]

I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for those batteries.

[@Youtuber-k2p]

6:40 his name ends in ‘an’ and the charges are defamation not “deformation”.

[@jamesop22]

Such a reputable company, hiding their store 😂😂😂😂😂

[@ausguy4385]

They had the owners private address as know address till changed to a address they don't own/rent....

[@momouppa]

​@@ausguy4385I noticed that as well

[@tomparker5000]

I'd be satisfied if they just had a warehouse with a covered parking space where they can test your battery. Heck, even a pop up tent would be less weird than the public car park!

[@DuncanMargetts]

Hahah.. this is gold.. well done for recording it and posting it. Made my day.. dodgy as fuck.

[@DuncanMargetts]

Bet the replacement battery never turns up.

[@brettwentworth8254]

Can’t wait to see your Cape trip. We’re planning a trip mid next year.

[@donpaterson2397]

DCS batteries became super popular because of the combination of claims that were ahead of their competition, like under bonnet engine install. Direct charging off the alternator (In high sight, it now seems obvious why the competitors didn't go with the same claims, but it got DCS a lot of sales I'm sure). Now its obvious that these batteries couldn't handle these conditions for certain period of time, looks like around 3 years and there cooked possibly. So yeah I see trouble on the horizon. Id say to anyone with DCS batteries, I'd go get them checked and action a warranty if needed, before its too late.

[@damienmilk3025]

A big fat lead acid on the cranking and AGM for the accessories, old idea but it works.

[@dpd6401]

I’d stick to a premium lead acid as my starting battery and a deep cycle for my accessories and cop the extra weight. I don’t trust these lithium batteries and if I were to buy one, it would be a cheap Kings, which I’ve no doubt is the same as a relabelled more expensive brand. Nice video guys.

[@simonmanners4108]

The chemistry doesn’t lie. LiFePO4 batteries do not handle heat well at all. It doesn’t matter how the construction is the chemistry dictates the operating parameters for longevity. You can use many chemistry types in extreme environments but they will suffer advanced degradation. You can replace them with other batteries from other manufacturers but the chemistry is the same.

[@jasonsimonsen4184]

Definitely.. I wouldn't be putting them in the engine bay then complaining why they aren't working. It's pretty simple to understand that... I would have thought.

[@davedownunder8057]

And this guy is sueing Stefan ,zero confidence in his own words full of it buddy, I'll never buy DCS ,thanks for the video

[@VaughanMunro-js4nr]

Very interesting. Shop owner denies all knowledge. Suddenly, a man in a plain white van turns up and directs you to a local park. Luckily, there are three of you and recoded it. Time will tell

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

To be honest, we never felt unsafe or threatened by anyone. It just felt like we were being treated like second rate citizens

[@simonq9406]

I would never agree to a remote location inspection, its a store front or nothing. i hope you have the serial numbers of those batteries and ask for a full writtin report of their findings including the model and calibration certificates of the testing equipment. If they cant do that they are not worth dealing with. He didnt even know anything about the batteries.

[@PeterMenzies-t4r]

This only appears to confirm what SF found with DCS batteries used in an underbonnet installation. As a consumer I am very glad I do not have any of their batteries in my vehicles but which ones are good and stand by their warranty! How do we as consumers obtain meaningful research without published independent unbiased testing & reviews? Should the Australian Govt not take them to task under consumer rights laws?

[@jaredtansley3236]

This is such good content brother, because I follow that other KZbinr stating exactly that. Taking him to court i hope Stefan wins.

[@lifes.way.too.short-au]

It looks like DCS is operating from a home properly. Just check the ABN No. To get details.

[@everyhandletaken]

It's a nice park that you met at, so there is that... Only positive I can come up with.

[@stuobrien3132]

Very odd and concerning about meeting in the park. Time will tell if and when the replacement batteries turn up and hope that they do.

[@fabiobertolla3000]

Do you have an update 1 month down the track? Has Ray recieved replacement batteries?

[@andrewlund3886]

I had some minor issues with their first slimline and the owner turned up at mine with replacement. There was a very early dcs vid on KZbin that showed a resi address in tambourine and I drove passed once and saw a sign out the front.

[@jarrodt5786]

Very odd. On google maps the address shows for a house just up the road from the shop you went to.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

They have two address listed. One is a house which I won’t mention where it is. ( we went past it and looked but couldn’t see anything to say there’s a business operation there. The other one belongs to entirely different business. And he is getting angry that ppl are turning upto him because DCS has his address listed as themself.

[@jarrodt5786]

@@Australian4x4Adventures ok. That’s why some businesses put a PO Box instead. Just curious why most of the batteries on the DCS website show instock.

[@beardmoto]

@@jarrodt5786that will be so they can take your money, then call and say there’s a delay with stock. By that logic, not everyone will cancel their order, and that will be better for them than no orders at all. Pretty standard of greedy online sellers

[@ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc3]

The house used to be advertised on his website. Then once this blew up, people started asking the local council whether they knew there was a lithium battery (ie dangerous goods) warehouse on that residential property. Council has in turn been asking questions of their own, by the looks!

[@jarrodt5786]

@@ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc3 sounds like a duck quacks like a duck it certainly is a duck

[@harrison50083]

I’d buy kings batteries before looking at dcs

[@4west7]

Dodgy Carpark Stuff😂

[@trickster8635]

Positive?! Ray has nothing but noise, words, promises and business speak. Until he gets physical batteries in his hands, THEN that is positive. Don't dismiss the inconvenience of all the running around and the fact that his trip was compromised due to the faults. Just lucky he was travelling with people that could get him a jump start, otherwise.......?

[@shanenorwell8580]

Very interesting mate. Be interesting to hear the updates should there be any.

[@JonathanDPoyner]

not just under bonnet, I have three that are all failed not under bonnet.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

That’s a bit more rare. Have you tried to claim warranty

[@JonathanDPoyner]

@@Australian4x4Adventures My issue is that they don't believe my capacity testing. They want the batteries back to test, and struggling to find a courier to take them. As well as the cost of that - I'm not real flush at the moment. They also want to charge me to get them tested. In all honesty, I just don't trust them to do it. As well as I'm then left without the batteries, which are used in 2 of our vehicles and a boat. I don't want to fork out for 3 more batteries....

[@ahdennis]

People are playing with literal fire sticking bloody lithium batteries in offroad vehicles... The liklihood of failure and the ensuing fire is a massive turn off, i could not relax for one minute with lithium batts in my vehicle or camper...

[@dan4age]

LiFePO4 batteries are not the same as Li-ion, LiFeP04 are quite tough and have a more stable chemistry

[@pauldarlington5589]

I was sceptical about lithium batteries before and I have opted for a wait and see strategy. This makes it all very clear to me now, the wait is over and I've seen enough. I'm not going near this epensive, dangerous garbage.

[@annpeerkat2020]

People are playing with literal fire putting petrol in things. Put petrol in a pan on your stove and boom. On the other hand, put petrol in your car and you'll be right (unless it's a diesel!). Same thing with lithium... lithium iRon (LiFePO4... lithium iron phosphate if you want to get technical) is a completely different beast than lithium ion batteries with manganese or cobalt etc chemistry. There is fork oil chance of a fire with lithium Iron.... more chance of your phone battery going off, and significant chance of a fire if something goes astray with feral lithium ion based on cobalt etc.. Just don't put a cheap rechargeable scooter in the back.

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@pauldarlington5589 In the same way you wouldn't store petrol under the bonnet, or use it as windscreen washer fluid... lithium batteries shouldn't be under the bonnet or cranking an engine. As house batteries, lithium iRon are perfect (assuming they're of reasonable quality) Any which way they aren't dangerous.

[@pauldarlington5589]

@@annpeerkat2020 With respect, I'm not so sure about your conclusions. Most air cooled small engines have the petrol tank bolted directly to the engine cylinder which do not burst into flames despite the high heat. Carbureted engines have petrol in the fuel lines and carburettor bowl in high heat and under pressure which do not catch on fire. Injected engines have fuel lines and racks full of petrol sitting directly above the cylinder head in high heat and pressure. Motorcycles have petrol tanks directly over the engine and the cranking battery is usually under the seat. I'm not much inclined to ride a bike with this potential thermal lithium bomb directly under my arse cheeks despite your assurances that this time it's different. although I am quite ok with 20 litres of petrol sitting in front of me between my legs and a lead acid battery under my bum.

[@maxrockatanksyOG]

That is DCS closing shop for sure

[@Fanta....]

Might bold of you to assume they had a shop in the first place.

[@TonyTony-rd4rj]

Any body who knows anything about lithium batteries knows they are not suitable for under bonnet engine bay placement as they do not tolerate extreme heat. In fact the hotter the temperature the more the bms cuts the charging rate. Eventually leading to premature failure.

[@sumpjunkie]

Quote This process is very unnerving...... Absolutely nailed it I thought you guys handled the situation well. Watch his body language and had an answer for everything. There's nothing wrong with making a quid, but this is a poorly executed business plan falling apart and he would be receiving zero support from the overseas supplier on the product issues. This is someone in the battery business who seems like he knows nothing about ...... So sketchy.

[@AdventuresofSirDon]

I'd reckon they've lost the shop front to avoid getting review bombed, and to prevent new customers making the connection (no pun intended). Old makes reeks of bs, he's a bad liar - but the internet can make a bad one, great.

[@ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc3]

Never had the shop front, they were previously trading from the house mentioned in the video

[@CitizenJane-]

Can someone please tell me why everyone thinks they should use lithium batteries over sealed gel ?

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

Better capacity. Liter better current draw. Theres lots of advantages to lithium but its just not suited to under bonnet applications in my opinion

[@-PORK-CHOP-]

@@Australian4x4Adventures Lithium has a recommended maximum operating temperature of 55C, the only other company I know of that sells an under bonnet Lithium is iTechWorld, not sure how these have been performing they state a temp rating of +5 to 60C, under bonnet will easily exceed 60C, in Australian Summer probably over 85C, this is a death sentence for a Lithium battery

[@CitizenJane-]

@@Australian4x4Adventures They aren't great in cold conditions either.

[@thatguy2201]

Old mate swinging from the rafters when talking about silicone encased bms.

[@WrongTurnAdventures]

Interesting video. Thanks for sharing.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@4x4CampingandAdventures]

Intresting video for sure hopefully he gets sorted.

[@1Beetlegeuse]

Resin and silicone/rubber to aid in cooling?

[@kadmow]

I never liked the idea of any Lithium battery under the bonnet - Even when Stefan was singing the praises of the "miracle technology". - MOST of the B$ magic beans we are told about is simply "too good to be true". I have been using Renogy amd kings LFP batteries in low C-rate installs over the last few years (never cranked the vehicle off them).

[@annpeerkat2020]

no cranking = not cranky (so long as it's not broiled under the bonnet)

[@terrysmith7740]

Would love to have seen the DCS shop.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

They don’t have one

[@Sparky_D]

I fully expect DCS to not exist very very soon. They will close down and those dodgy blokes will probably start a business under a new name and start ripping people off again.

[@GordonKayOz]

Interesting video on how DCS operates.

[@mountainconstructions]

A viewers warning might have helped mate I wasn't ready for what I saw 😂😂😂😂

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

😂. We wernt ready to risk our lives in a park either 😜

[@roh5876]

@@Australian4x4Adventures I think he was referring to your topless mate at the start of the video!

[@ashleydeadman4954]

Back orders have been the norm as stated for years

[@essential4x439]

Alright I’m going to give some of my feedback. I have an online business and DONT have a shopfront. I have a warehouse in a storage place. The gates shut at 4pm Saturday, 12pm Sundays. I CANNOT access after that. Let’s pretend Ray called me and had an issue with his Powercore, say he called me Saturday and said I’ll be there Sunday 3pm. I would have to ensure I get the stock or what was needed to get Ray back on the road and I would have to meet him elsewhere… not in my shopfront or my warehouse. Weird right? But my priority would be to get ray back on the road…. This could sincerely be the case. BUT I would be HONEST! And tell him that when he called me. Stock can be an issue as for wait times. TRUST ME! I can have stock sit in customs for 1 day and up to 14-17 days… BUT communication is key. If they were honest on all of this (unsure if they were) then I don’t see the issue because I think of myself. I hope that they resolve it soon for him. Just trying to share another perspective from my business which is legitimate. Cheers. Aaron.

[@Australian4x4Adventures]

Absolutely agree. And ray said at one point. If we take away the park meeting then it was actually a pretty good outcome ( providing the battery’s turn up ). I completely understand your side of the table with being an online business but there were a few factors that made it seem as dodgy as it did. One. It wasn’t a Saturday or Sunday and it wasn’t outside of business hours. And second. He gave us a fake address to meet at knowing full well it was someone else’s battery business he was sending us too. As you said. If communication was upfront and forthcoming then all of this would have been a none event really. But true to what seems to be there form as of late. Everything just came across as dodgy and wrong.

[@essential4x439]

@@Australian4x4Adventures for sure! I just wanted to share a personal view from my business perspective. Communication is absolutely key… which some of this seems a bit off…. I hope Ray gets it sorted real soon! Thanks guys another great video !!

[@peterchambers6208]

@@Australian4x4Adventures they gave another battery business address? Wow I missed that, just makes it even worse.

[@06hunter54]

If somebody suggested to meet them in a park, I would not be going alone and without a weapon. No joke. lol

[@rangieman]

That was a very well balanced vid i thought but how bizarre meet at a unknown shop front and then meet at a park , Bloody shonky 👍

[@NZBear07]

From what I heard and saw in the video, I doubt that i would want to purchase any of their products. I'd be thinking that DCS are possibly in some sort of supply trouble.

[@Ab0minati0n]

$1,699 retail currently for the extreme. what I can't get my head around is if LiFeP04 batteries have a working range of -20 to +60c how are DCS getting a plus 110c. Is it a special cell with special adhesive or something? A university report found that if the batteries were held over 50c for extended periods they lost well over 50% of their cycle ability over time. Re the carpark I can only assume they have a home workshop and didnt want people there but seems a bit odd.

[@duncanwhitcombe4392]

Wow . And thankyou for sharing