Automatic Dive Watch Duel: Steinhart OVM vs Ginault Ocean Rover Date - Perth WAtch

[@tomj3372]

Very interesting comparison. I own both of these watches myself. They are both FANTASTIC watches for what they are. I agree with you for the most part, but I think that you are being a bit generous on the Steinhart. Don't get me wrong, I love my Steinhart, heck, I currently own FOUR of their models and will me buying a few more for sure, BUT the Ginault in definitely a superior watch in almost every category. Fit, finish, accuracy, design, etc. The Steinhart IS an amazing value, while the Ginault is just GLORIOUS! I do own a Rolex Sub-Mariner as well and while I think that neither are on the same level as my Rolex the Ginault comes far closer.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thank you very much for the thoughtful comment, and I have to say I generally agree with all that. The Ginault is superior in most ways... the only other facet other than sheer value I might have given the nod to the Steinhart is performance - as a dive watch, I think it's got higher visibility and the bezel is easier to use. Other than that, one might fairly describe the Ginault as "glorious"! :)

[@tedg6431]

Question, I have a few steinharts myself. It seems everyone I have just doesn’t keep good time. They are not magnetized, and if they were I ran them over the machine. Do you at all notice yours loosing more time than they should?

[@PerthWAtch]

Hi Ted - can I ask how much time are your watches losing each day? The Elabore grade movements should be regulated to +/- 7 secs/day so within that is acceptable. Having said said all 3 Steinhart watches I have come across performed at +2 to +4 sec/day.

[@veritasaequitas9252]

Like the Steinhart, cool watch, fantastic value...but Ginault looks simply ultimate.

[@saythankstomrbanks7631]

The only thing is you could buy approx 3 Steinharts for 1 Ginault. Ginault is good but you could buy an OVM, a Pepsi and a classic for about the same from Steinhart. You could buy a little collection for that money.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that - I think you've touched on one of the key points for many people here. The asking price for Ginault is high, perhaps too high for many. Getting it on the occasional special discount may be the answer for some.

[@derfdswed]

thats what I ended up doing. I have an OVM, Pepsi, and green bezel. Don't wear the green bezel one a whole lot,. The ginault has nicer case and dial but the dial has too much text on it. Eventually I will probably sell 2 of my Steinharts and get a Tudor Black Bay 58

[@PerthWAtch]

Ah yes, the Black Bay is a great choice and a worthy upgrade :)

[@joekelly9369]

Haha i did , ovean 1 39mm , ocean 44 , my favourite the ovm , £1250 .but i wanted all three . The import duty from usa is ridiculous

[@inlandwatchreviews5745]

My Tudor Black Bay heritage 41 with the black dial has a ETA 2824-2 movement . I dont want to think of how many Steinhearts I could buy for the price of a Tudor. I believe this will be my top dollar watch. I had the rolex Air King 34 mm, very nice watch but too small for me. really I would like to have a Ginualt Ocean Rover with the date function and cyclops. and the green Kirmit Steinheart too.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing that. Indeed it can feel like we are getting ripped for value when considering a watch of several thousand dollars yet still having an ETA movement. I think the Ginault is compelling when paying around $700-800.

[@jeffreybowden9835]

Nice work. I was offered the Ginault $800 + price, but still as a purely value proposition without holding one in hand, the only advantage seems to be the wonderful glide lock clasp, which could be added to the Steinhart band for under $100. I’d go German-Swiss over questionable American.

[@jasonJones-ks5co]

Jeffrey Bowden I seriously doubt it’s even American most likely Chinese

[@PerthWAtch]

There seems to be some heated debate going on in other threads here... I'm travelling at the moment, looks like I'm gonna need a desktop to parse all that when I have the chance! Good point about the clasp - do you know which sources can do a good compatible glidelock clasp?

[@jeffreybowden9835]

Glide lock clasp options - Strapcode and there are several non Ginault alternatives on EBay.

[@jasonJones-ks5co]

Jeffrey Bowden I’m not questioning the quality, the reviews speak for themselves I seriously doubt these watches are handmade in the USA. Also the lack of even a phone number for Ginault is very questionable for a company that sells $1000+ watches. When you do a little background research you’ll find the Ginault LLC registered address is a mailbox at a UPS store in Fremont CA is also very suspicious.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that! I'm seriously considering this now :)

[@kevinkoberg4506]

Excellent review. I have owned both and they are both excellent. I prefer the Steinhart size for my 7.25 wrist. The finishing on the Ginault OR II is the best I've seen, but the size made it feel dainty and not robust enough for my taste. Can't go wrong with either of these, it will depend on your preferences.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for the thoughts - well said!

[@muscleheadfireman2231]

@kevinkoberg4506 agreed ... Ginault Rover II is a GORGEOUS watch ... I wish Ginault would make the Rover II in 42 mm or 44 mm .. I have an 8 in wrist ... if they did or will be in the near future I would buy it in a heart beat!!

[@cryptoengineer9930]

The Ginault looks a mile better to me in looks and quality. I've owned loads of watches of various qualities in the end you get a good eye for a more refined quality. You do have to pay for it. Interesting review.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that, appreciate the input and thoughts based on your experience!

[@Bugster987]

Would be great to see a comparison with the new 39mm Steinhart OVM

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that - sure would be a good comparison to do! I promise to do it if a Steinhart 39mm comes my way!

[@UncleVoodoo]

If the Ginault was a little more expensive than the Steinhart i could see the purchase, but at nearly triple the price...no way.

[@PerthWAtch]

Realistically it's double the price... no one should have to pay the full MSRP, the company readily provides discounts :)

[@killakev1187]

@@PerthWAtch its 3x the amount now, no longer honoring a discount, besides ginault doesn't seem like a solid company, its basically ran by 1 man named John, and a mystery American manufacturing company, they wont give any American customer service number, I'll bet it won't be long until ginault disappears and start selling watches named Geraldos or some fancy name,

[@PerthWAtch]

Really? That’s too bad. John TC McMurty had such a cool Chinese English way of writing, I enjoyed our correspondences. He makes a mean watch and I hope they manage to continue somehow ;)

[@humanwatchman2682]

​@@killakev1187 😂

[@derekhicks8250]

The Ginault has, for the last year, been a must have for me. The Steinhart was just too long in the lugs, however they're now offering a 39mm version through Gnomon. That has heavily shifted the tide in the Steinhart's favor for me. The Ginaults a bit to pricey for me, also the Steinhart's milsub look is a little more distinct than the Ginault, although I like the Sword hands on both. I'd love the Ginault, but the 39mm Steinhart is almost perfect for half the price. Happy New Year from -30c in Canada.

[@JungleEddie]

Hi Derek, my section of Canada is only -9C

[@derekhicks8250]

Winnipeg, lived here for 4 decades, still not used to it. ☃️

[@JungleEddie]

18 years in Halifax. I grew up in the banana belt of Windsor, Ontario

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for those thoughts Derek - well considered and I do think that 39mm Steinhart is getting a lot of interest! I hope to get one in hand in the near future. Happy New Year to you guys from +34c in sunny Western Australia! :)

[@elarson312]

Great comparison. Do you know who makes the clone movement in the Genault? I'd pick the Steinhart as I know the movement is swiss and the price is right!

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that. Ginault have officially stated that they make it in the USA, apart from a few parts which they have had to source from (most likely) China). However, there is plenty of controversy about this as you may read in the other comments here. Check out my full review of the Ginault if you haven't already: kzbin.info/www/bejne/imitZ6NnnrJ2eLs

[@elarson312]

Perth WAtch Thank you for the information!

[@PerthWAtch]

No worries mate - all the best!

[@killakev1187]

@@PerthWAtch That's a lie told by John, Where is this mystery factory at in America, they won't give any transparency about this movement being created in America, Would you believe what's stated from a company that was built and founded behind manufacturing fake rolex watches?

[@PerthWAtch]

This thread is 2 years old... You may be right but I made no comment on the veracity, I was just stating fact as is.

[@alexsdg3441]

Good comparison, Ivan. but how about adding "Company warranty & customer service" to your list? I think that is an important factor of buying a watch. As for Ginault, I did not have a good customer service from them. Actually, I had a lot of inaccuracy movement issue with two ginault that I had bought and sent them out to Ginault to regulate them, but John at Ginault just returned them back to me in 3 month, pretending that they had serviced the watches. But as soon as I got them, I realized that they did not even regulate them. One going 20 sec slower and one going 25 sec faster, exactly same as before I sent them out. And as soon as I contact John asking for some sort of report of servicing my watches, he just stopped communicating with me. So, I took the watches to my watch guy and he said that the movement of Ginault was made in China / Cloned in China with China parts that he said that he can not give me warranty even after "trying to" regulate them. Really bad service from Ginault and I have completely lost confidence in their movement. Anyway, thanks for comparison. PS: in my opinion, even for a micro brand, specially for a micro brand that has to do super excellence service to keep the company float, Ginault does not provide any type of customer service phone # anywhere. I think that is absolutely negative on the watch company.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thank you for sharing your insightful thoughts as always Alex. This is not the first time I've heard grave concerns about the Ginault customer service, or rather the non existence of it. Some have investigate the company listing and report that it almost lists as a shell company in the US... it remains a mystery as to exactly what the manufacturing process is, but the comment from your watchmaker raises serious concerns. I have also always thought there is very little doubt the website prose is written from a Chinese perspective, and not very well rendered into English at that!

[@joekelly9369]

Ginault is run by a chinese guy ,Sung Chi .the movement is a chinese copy of an ETA Swiss movement , the watch is as American as water buffalo pie ,

[@GeeMood]

GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER is now $1499 usd. I see many made reference to the cost in the comments, but Steinhart just can't be beat at the price point. Great vid!

[@PerthWAtch]

In competition against Steinhart (and with more original design) is Glycine.

[@thewiseyoutubeman4535]

I owned a steinhart ocean one 39mm which I sold and I also came close to purchasing a ginault ocean rover but I couldn't quite do it. For me the steinhart was superior quality to a lot of watches in its price range including Seiko but there was just something that didn't feel quite right to me. Inside I knew that this watch was well built , good trusted movement & just overall great quality but I couldn't get over the fact that this watch was still basically a copy of the real thing we have come to love and adore , the iconic Rolex submariner we have seen over the years on famous wrists such as roger Moore in James Bond to name an example. For those who can overlook the fact it's just a high quality copy then great but personally for me I will be sticking with my Seiko's and saving for the real thing.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for putting those thoughts down... fair enough I think, homage watches like the Steinhart Ocean One are not for everyone, some just will not like the homage/copy nature, and I can understand that. Personally I'm fine with it, but at the same time really appreciate their more original models like the Titanium 500 GMT.

[@Mark-sd7fc]

Ginault has made their living on making fake watches that say Rolex on them Steinhart never did that, their both homage watches and speaking of the real thing every time anybody! ANYBODY sees a Rolex they wonder if it’s a fake!!

[@PerthWAtch]

What?

[@orwellknew9112]

I understand your issue but I have no issue with the Steinhart looking like a Rolex model. I’m not a watch collector, just a guy that was looking to buy a dive watch. I ordered the Steinhart because I liked the looks, the size, the price and it was functionally what I was looking for. I’d never even seen a picture of a Rolex Submariner before I ordered the Steinhart. I looked it up yesterday and they do look very similar, but the price of a Rolex is pretty crazy. I’m certainly not trying to fool anyone that I own a Rolex. I don’t think the people I associate with would know a Rolex if they saw one. But, if anyone asks, which I doubt they will, I’ll be happy to tell them it’s a Steinhart. I bet there are lots of other people like me that buy a Steinhart watch for lots of good reasons that don’t include the word Rolex.

[@JungleEddie]

I feel more qualified to reply now. I received a Steinhart OVM for my birthday in May. After a month and a half on the wrist I am very happy. It is the only watch I have worn in that time. I am getting about minus 3 seconds per day. Hand winding is a little bit rough and it certainly feels different than my Orient Ray 2. The straight lugs are not optimal but they are not a nuisance on my 8.25 inch wrist. Lume is poor but that is not something I find important.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing that Eddie! Very interesting hear... I honestly found the movement in the OVM I had to be as good as any ETA 2824 I have used, with excellent regulation in line with the Elabore grade (was running +2 spd as I recall). Lume also wasn't poor by any means, with the glow lasting all the way until morning if I wore the watch overnight. You bought the latest version of the OVM? It would be disappointing if it had deteriorated in quality compared with this version.

[@JungleEddie]

I will check the lume tonight. It looks good when you walk in from the bright outside but that is the only time I ever noticed it. It is definitely not Seiko lume.

[@PerthWAtch]

In my understanding C3 is the brightest of the Superluminova range. This "old radium" therefore won't be as bright, and is a bit of an unknown quantity when I tried to look up details about it...

[@JungleEddie]

BTW, I crushed the pip at 12:00. It doesn't look bad, just flat. I have no intention of doing anything about it.

[@joseluislagosr]

Assuming a 40% discount is obtained on the Ginault, is it worth twice the price of the Steinhart Ocean 1 ?Residual Value ? After a year, if both sold, which one will hold its value better ?

[@PerthWAtch]

Good questions! And right now I think there may not be enough info out there to know the answers... time will tell! :)

[@gregalonzo747]

While Steinhart is a good value for the money, Ginault just outclasses the former. In many ways, the Ginault is considered by many to be the best Submariner homage on the market. While I feel it is a very good timepiece, my preference would be either the Squale or the MKII.

[@PerthWAtch]

I think the Ginault is the best Sub homage I have seen - better dial, bracelet, finishing, etc. I also do think the Steinhart has outstanding value (better than most) and also has a better movement in the ETA Elabore, despite Ginault's claims of "assembled in USA". Which MKII are you referring to - the OVM MKII?

[@gregalonzo747]

The MKII that I was referring to is the Nassau. Very durable and I mostly wear it on the weekends while sailing . As for Squale, their 1545 Submariner homage is only $600.

[@PerthWAtch]

Cool, thanks for the reply and details on those! :)

[@Mark-sd7fc]

Ya those weren’t included in this comparison review??

[@tjschakow]

Again the key to success with Ginault is whether their movement withstands the test of time. I’ve watched just about every review I could find on KZbin and the Ginault seems to be as close to the Rolex as you can get, thus it should command a higher price. It’s all about the movement though. An American made movement that can hang with a Swiss ETA wouldbe a great accomplishment. First step is too keep the price low and acquire market share then slowly rais e the price. I think these watches are a steal at the $1300-1500 price point.

[@PerthWAtch]

You make some good points there and I do hope that they are successful. As for "as close to Rolex as you can get"... well I think that's *definitely* got to be the Tudor Sub in my explorations of the category!

[@PerthWAtch]

Not sure what your point is Bart... what I've said remains true.

[@PerthWAtch]

I still don't get your point... and it looks like you misspelt some words, please correct so your sentence makes sense.

[@josephmcdonald764]

You may want to recheck your Steinberg OVM, mine has a stainless steel insert, not aluminum.

[@PerthWAtch]

Just going by specs from the company I found at the time. How would you check the difference anyway? Not to mention that this was lent to me, as stated.

[@23727bgk]

I own the Ginault. It is COSC accurate. That and the clasp give it the edge over the Steinhart. I think the Steinhart is a bargain alternate to the Ginault.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that Bert. I do think the Ginault is a very good piece of work... there are many criticisms as to it's true origin and whether there has been deception, but taken for what it is I find it of very good quality. Cheers, Ivan.

[@MarkM58]

I enjoy your videos. In this case, you probably could have done it in half the time because these two watches are both excellent homages. Both have excellent fit and finish. Score wise, they are tied. I think it just comes down personal preference and finances. I made the decision to go with Steinhart because of the price difference.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that Mark... that a fair view. Oh if only I could cut down a minute or two or more from all of my videos, I think I would be more successful... alas I don't have the resources to achieve this presently...

[@MarkM58]

@@PerthWAtch the more you do, the better you'll get! It doesn't happen overnight.

[@PerthWAtch]

Yes sir I believe that's true!

[@chrisauge6802]

Thanks for the comparison...great job. I appreciate you!

[@PerthWAtch]

Thank you very much for the support :)

[@maverickwatchreviews]

Great channel and more importantly great content. All the best in 2018!

[@PerthWAtch]

Thank you very much for that Matt - all the best for 2018 to you too! I really wish I had more time to watch and engage with videos (including yours), but since becoming a creator time has become increasingly scarce - apologies for that!

[@maverickwatchreviews]

Perth WAtch...I totally understand. This has become a legitimate second job for a lot of us!

[@PerthWAtch]

Haha I wish this was enough to be legitimate for me but currently it's more of me trying to legitimise it ;)

[@flyingspeedtriple]

Thanks for the comparison. I generally agree with most of the scores you gave. However I’d have to disagree with the Calibre score. I would not be able to give 8 for the cloned ETA movement. The actual 2824 has pedigree and provenance. The clone does not. 6 for the clone from me! All the best.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for the comment - fair enough thought about the score for the clone movement.

[@vudownssc]

Very close scores on the comparisons.. For the price I'd go steinhart

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that mate! Yeah I think many would be inclined to agree with you! The value proposition that Steinhart offers remains astounding to me. Cheers, Ivan.

[@jeffreybowden9835]

Nice review! These two are both on my short wish list. The Ginault at 2 to 3 times the cost, but an even tie score does make the Steinhart quite the value proposition. Reviewers are supposed to be impartial, but which would be your choice?

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that! Difficult one - you could go either way, but the Steinhart makes a more compelling case for value, and also does not have some of the shadiness and uncertainty of Ginault. I would probably go for a Steinhart with ceramic bezel given a choice.

[@MyiptvWorld]

I don´t want to be rude in anyway but I would like to express my opinion on these Homage watches in comparison to a Rolex. First, are they not all made of stainless steel? Don´t they have sapphire crystal? Don´t they have Swiss movement (and the Ginault a copy of the Swiss movement) So in terms of material, all three have the same material cost, is that not correct? I think the Steinhart is a good value for the money, I think the Ginault is well over priced but I think they over priced it just to get in the game of a luxury watch price ball park because, common, parts are coming from China and besides the point that China does have great products, they make parts very cheap so the price, in my opinion is just to make it seem like an expensive watch(I would never buy it at that price). Now a Rolex with a price tag of around 7k, I still don´t understand it when I think about the material that is used to make them (The same as the other 2).Since the Rolex has accents in Gold I would agree with a price tag of around 1k-2k at the most just because it has Gold.The Heart and brain of the Rolex and Steinhart are the same so why they crazy price difference? I see alot of haters here for Homage watches but think about it. Who do you think should laugh more, the guy wearing a Rolex that payed 7k and looks at the guy with a Steinhart watch, or should the guy with the Stainhart watch look at the guy with a 7k Rolex and laugh? None of them should laugh at each other at all but by reading all these hate comments here about Homage watches makes me think. I have a 1960´s 18k Gold Tissot swiss made vintage watch and bracelet. How much is that worth if a stainless steel swiss made watch costs 7k?

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for taking the time to share those thoughts - those are indeed shared by many who feel the same way about overpriced luxury pieces, and I have some of those same feelings. On the Rolex side, firstly I will note there is no way you would get a new Dual tone Sub for under $10k, and a stainless steel one is now about $8k minimum. Also Rolex don't do gold plating or toning... it's always *solid* 18k gold. Other points of note on materials side are that they use higher grade 904L steel, have own proprietary cerachrom ceramic bezels, own chromalite lume, and also 100% unique in house movements with Cerachrom antimagnetic springs, etc etc. In short the argument on the Rolex side is that they have certain unique materials, lots of development cost going into some of their unique features, and their finishing is of course at a high level. One could say that their heart and brains are quite different. But in the end, does this make it worth $8k for a basic Sub? I think a lot of that cost is brand and marketing, part of it is development, and the smaller part is actual cost of the raw materials and man hours. That all makes it feel like you may not be getting value... but at the same time I also consider that Rolex hold value where few others don't, so that $8k Sub may actually fetch you more later, if you keep it on good nick. Much less likely with Steinhart. My two cents as food for thought - but thank you again for the thoughtful comment! Cheers, Ivan.

[@MyiptvWorld]

Thank you for answering Ivan. I loved your explanation about where the Rolex value comes from. When I spoke about the gold on the Rolex I was also stating that it is solid gold (like my Tissot case and band). I loved the review and I have been looking at the Seinhart for everyday use. You just made me take that extra step to purchasing it. Thanks again for the review and for your answer to my questions. Subbed and liked my friend.

[@PerthWAtch]

Cheers for the support - hope you enjoy the Steinhart as much as I do, they really do make good watches!

[@MarkM58]

@@PerthWAtch I think this is an important, and often overlooked point. When you buy a Rolex, you are buying a piece of jewelry first and foremost. As a timekeeper, it is no better than the many of the ETA, Sellita, and Grand Seiko/Seiko movements. I can understand Rolex charging for the 18kt gold. The current market price for gold is $41.03 per gram. I'm not sure their 904L steel is that much superior to the 316L used in other watches to justify the cost.

[@andersolav3853]

I dont know why anybody dosent pick up on the fact that the Steinhart (OVM MKII -cause this is not the MKI (that is even a better homage) that dosent get produced anymore like the particulare ^Rolex MIL-SUB^ that it pays tribute to) its a completley different and particular watch only given to British special forces (in a few hundred in the 70s) and not produced again or sold to the general public, although Tom Cruise bought one at an auction for some million dollars and set a record. The Steinhart ^OVM^ MKI has only Steinhart printed on the top of the dial and has a black dial. This MKII has a faded black dial (like the fade that the watch it pays tribute to has gotten over the years since it was produced) and has the ^Ocean One^ printed on, and Steinhart has done that so they keep the ¨homage¨ of the first model MKI to those that picked up on the great homage to a watch and was with them when they let this ¨homage¨ out, so that that model dosent get produced anymore (as the watch they pay tribute to). But the MKI is out there and many have been taken well care of and is as good as new, and those has even a better quality steel and was produced before the eta-2824 was in high demand so one can get one if you look for one second hand bought. If you want this MKII you can ask for the ceramic bezel and they can deliver -if you ask nice, or you can order it with the alu-bezel and the ceramic for a few extra and ask to not be fixed on with a bezel , then you can go to a local geek (that has the equipment and has done this) or a good old watchmakers store and get it fixed on and then you have more solid (ceramic) bezel that dosent gets nicks or dents and is also good looking on this MKII (I have tried it), and at home you will have a completley new alu-bezel..... . Good to see that people have their own opinions and share them : about brands ,build quality and most important how to enjoy their watches (and now to something completley different : sorry to the 4x 911 (and the gt*r that was called in,) didnt you reed the sign on the hat on the rear shelf...sorry it wasnt just another M3 driving home from the old cabin in the mountain.. and now before you learn to drive : its going in for a well deserved sleep over winter and next year I am tooo old to bite on the hook, but I am looking at some good "old" Carrera`s as they have 4x4 and we have winters in norway ;)

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing the detailed thoughts! Actually if you take a look at my review of this Steinhart I did mention it is the Mk II and how it differs from the Mk I. The Mk I is also made from 316L steel so I'm not sure what you mean by better quality steel... as far as I know it's the same material. Also you mention that it's produced before the ETA 2824 was in high demand, but I'm not sure of the accuracy of that statement, nor why its relevant in the first place. Steinhart is about 16 years old as a company whereas that ETA movement has been in production over 35 years... it has been popular before Steinhart existed. Hmm... interesting car story but I think you lost me a little there! :)

[@andersolav3853]

I ment to ask the "public" here in the question area down here (and not you about it, and didnt want to argue with you that made this video, as its easy to argue about a video but much harder to produce one), why it wasnt picked up on the fact why these two watches shouldnt be compared as equals -as they dont pay homage to the same watch- . You mentioned that it wasnt the same Steinhart as the MKI when you talked about the OVM MKII but you didnt pick up on some facts that should have been given I think, and also why they dont produce them as the first producition line MKI anymore. -Better quality steel : one will have to dig a bit on that one but the steel is second grade (also watchmakers like Raymond weil got some watches with that steel) -ask some with nickel allergy to were one produced before and after and why EU changed the law about how much nickel one can have in alloys and steel and still call it nickel free.... there is a reason. "ETA 2824" production got in high demand and (most watchmakers that didnt produce their own watch movement had problems with that in that periode and lots more like the ETA 2824-2 got produced (and when something gets produced in a higher quantities it almost always gets a bit lesser in quality when the focus is on the demand and not on the quality...it gets a bit lesser in the quality) even Steinhart couldnt find a source for secure deliverey of ETAs for their watches -you can ask them. The car story is true, as its true that it is easier to argue about a video than to produce one. Thanks ;)

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for a very detailed response! Yep the Steinhart is a homage, the Orient AFAIK fully original... but the comparison is fine because of a number of similarities. Ah I see, you're saying the steel in the Mk I has better or tighter tolerances to how much Nickle and other substances are inside... that's interesting, I never knew about these details before. It is logical that there is a risk of a fall in quality when higher volume of production is pushed... however this isn't a certainty, and I have not seen anything to substantiate that there has been a fall in quality of ETA 2824 movements. If you have a source(s) for that, I would definitely be keen to take a look. Cheers, Ivan.

[@edwardcrater3591]

Pass on the Steinhart. For the money, I expect better finishing.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing the thoughts John!

[@JungleEddie]

Nice comparison. I would have marked the Ginault higher on the the movement. You are getting the same performance but the Steinhart has a wider range of acceptable performance. If you looked at 100 of each I would expect the Ginault to do better on average. I think that they are both solid watches that are worth their asking prices. I will go with the Steinhart because that is my budget. If the Ginault had the Steinhart's bezel and bezel insert I think I would stretch my budget and buy the Ginault.

[@JungleEddie]

It is claimed to be an American clone. The SW200 is a Swiss clone and the world seems to be gaga over that one. I have seen comparisons of parts between the Chinese and the original. i would like to see comparison of parts between the US and the original. The initial regulation of the Ginault is far superior to the Top version of the ETA.

[@Mark-sd7fc]

JungleEddie ya I don’t know if this proves anything but my my friend and I are both watch obsessive only he has more money than me so he bought the ginault and I got a Steinhart and my Steinhart gains 1 second a day and the ginault gains 4 seconds a day, proof enough for me! And the ginault came with a print out of when it was regulated stating it was running at + 2 seconds a day

[@PerthWAtch]

Interesting further comments guys, thanks for those inputs. I'd happily accept +4spd on a COSC watch... In my own experience and in reading as well, on wrist real use experience almost always gives a different result to regulation conditions which is either on winder or at rest. My Ginault runs about -2spd which is perfectly fine for me... (card stated +0.2spd or something)

[@PerthWAtch]

Very interesting quotes to read! But... what makes you think that I think Ginault make better movements than Seagull? I don't believe I have said that in comment on in video. I'm just stating my own experience of the movement performance. I'm not sure what the jury's verdict is on longevity of Seagull ETA clones but the jury is still out on Ginault's effort I think... it may well be much worse. Just to be clear, I'm not actually disagreeing with the recent comments.

[@PerthWAtch]

No worries at all mate, I liked those last comments. Your earlier comment was addressed to me and did say "what makes you think Ginault..." hence my perception, but thanks for clarifying 👍

[@joekelly9369]

The ginault bezel is all wrong for this homage , there a few minute markers out , and the movement is a eta clone ,for $850 hmmm

[@PerthWAtch]

Depends on if they really are trying to ape that vintage Rolex MilSub, which I'm not sure they are - they clearly went for applied markers, another differentiating point. Yep it's an ETA clone, and the pricing and origin are two of the issues that have raised heavy debate!

[@killakev1187]

So is 1 ginault worth the price of 3 steinhardt watches

[@PerthWAtch]

Nope

[@Jedi391]

Increasing quality is always a matter of diminishing returns. Is the Steinhart worth twice a Cronos L6005? I’d say definitely not.

[@PerthWAtch]

Yep 👍

[@lonewolf30531]

Steinhart all the way but if the GINAULT was priced at $200-$300 then maybe . Either way both watches are nice but the Ginault brand is very shady. Thank you for the comparison review.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that... fair enough thought I think! There seems to be no shortage of debate about the nature of Ginault!

[@JM-rl3nd]

The OR2 is an impressive watch, I just ordered one. Thanks for your informative review.

[@PerthWAtch]

Most welcome :)

[@Robert127]

Good vid hope too see more thanks

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks :)

[@FatherVampire]

One wonders how this review might have gone more solidly Steinhart's way had this reviewer bothered to compare "apples to apples" by pitting this Ginault against its far more-comparable "opponent," the Steinhart Ocean One. One of the features this reviewer marks Steinhart down for possessing are its simpler more vintage printed markers/indices over applied given that the "V" in OVM stands for... Vintage. Obviously, it's not going to have the more-modern applied stainless-steel encased markers/indices. I will grant that I do not like the Steinhart clasp; the only real Achilles' heel of the Steinhart that, in all other ways is at least equal to the Ginault.

[@PerthWAtch]

Dear Father Vampire, one wonders why you are writing about "this reviewer" in the third person as if you weren't directing this as me... perhaps you're not familiar with how these comments work? I suggest taking a leaf out of the dozens of others here, none of whom talk about "this reviewer" in the third person like you have. Very odd behaviour! As for your comments, I agree that an Ocean One would indeed be a more comparable "opponent"... I would love to do that if one comes across my hands. However please note the limitations of reality - my access to watches is not unlimited (not sure if anyone's is really), it's not that I am not "bothered" as you allege, you have to take into account our very real life limitations. Cheers, Ivan.

[@wijayaj001]

Thank you sir, this vid helps, i was planning on asking my son to get me one when hes coming back from the states this summer. Guess Ill save a Lil bit more for another Option. Thanks for this vid again.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks - glad to hear it was helpful! I assume it was the Ginault you were going for? I don't think it's available via "traditional" retail... you kinda have to buy direct via their website. Cheers, Ivan.

[@wijayaj001]

Perth WAtch yes, its easier to get it shipped within the U.S via USPS, then its being brought in person here... Still its subject to VAT even thought its Hard carried (pffft...)

[@PerthWAtch]

Ah I see what you mean...

[@MarkM58]

@@wijayaj001 tell your son to wear it on his wrist!

[@davidmckenna1549]

Steinhart is OK and decent quality for the price. However, I would go with Ginault. I think this company has a very bright future. I know you like Invicta so perhaps price is more of an issue for you. If not, check out Squale's homage to the Submariner. I also have this one and like it very much.

[@PerthWAtch]

How interesting, a few people have mentioned Squale in the last 24 hours on this video! I have heard it is indeed a good watch, although I do not know anyone who owns one... if I come across it I will definitely take a closer look!

[@lordbountifulitsme7919]

Hi, almost First ⁉️😢 Happy New Year from Perth 🙏 But l did buy a$10 watch on EBay the name "infantry" Sorry it's Quartz 👎 But only Lost 2 seconds in one Month, & that is unbelievable but totally true even I don't believe it ‼️ Keep up the good job 👏

[@PerthWAtch]

Haha thank you very much Gary - a very happy new year to you also! 2 secs a month for quartz is quite believable to me, it's bad quartz that falls toward the limits of +/- 15 secs per month. Cheers, Ivan.

[@bryanryan4504]

Hey I buy from Book Depository too! I recognize that bookmark.

[@PerthWAtch]

That and many many more :)

[@dmitrys8518]

who won ?

[@PerthWAtch]

Dunno man, watch video and see?

[@dmitrys8518]

@@PerthWAtch I asked about your opinion, because you are dial expert

[@PerthWAtch]

Very good!

[@indieladylove]

steinhart over ginault anyday anytime

[@PerthWAtch]

Fair enough :)

[@Jedi391]

I’d say Ginault over Steinhart and it’s just not a contest.

[@w.c.wilson8753]

Wouldn’t buy the OVM with gray dial. OVM 39 with black dial? Well now, THERE’S a great temptation!

[@PerthWAtch]

Yeah I think the same too... at the time of making this video the OVM 39 hadn't been made.

[@tjschakow]

Ginault is the best homage available. I own Steinhart, Squale, Marc & sons, Tissot, Armida, Helm, Seiko SKX, and a few other lesser named brands and I keep coming up with the Ginault. The drama and controversy surrounds who is the talent behind Ginault and it appears he was a Rolex Replica entrepreneur befre he came up with Ginault and went legit. Frankly, I would love to get my hands on one of his Rolex replica's but he has broken contact with his past. Small wonder as he now makes the best homage available. I wonder when he's going to make a GMT model. BTW, he gave me a very respectable discount for being a Veteran. My only complaint is that he's a one man show and can't make the Ginault's fast enough. Great communicator during the selling process.You'll be pleasantly surprised if you purchase a Ginault.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing those insights - yeah many of us read that article by "Deep Dive" or whatever his name is. The Ginault is excellent, however have you handled a Black Bay 58 or similar model? Many people swear to me that that's the best "homage" you can get...

[@tjschakow]

Perth WAtch I own a Tudor Pelagos and considering that Tudor is made by Rolex I did not consider them an homage. yes, the Tudor is a better watch in a head to head with Ginault, but at the $1200- $1500 price point the Ginault can't be beat.The Ginault should retail for $3500-$4000 IMHO. In fact, after I bought the Ginault i dumped my 3 Squale's and 4 Steinharts.I also own 4 Rolex watches-guess I have an acumulation problem, feuled by too much time in retirement and too much pension money coming in.

[@scorpianbliz]

In terms of design/style the only knock i have e on the Ginault is date function without magnification. No date would have been better. However, for the Steinhart the case shape, shape of the crown guards are off the mark. I also really dislike the clasp. If you're going to facsimile a watch go the extra mile. I also think the fake patina is just too dark. That sand color is more to my liking. It would be Ginault all the way if it was a no date, so with that said, for that reason I would go with the Steinhart and put it on a nato strap.

[@PerthWAtch]

Strange what a little date does for you! They got no-date and many other versions so there you go! For some it would be a knock on the design for having the ugly cyclops!

[@scorpianbliz]

@@PerthWAtch 1) I'm at the point in my life, where I need a magnified date. 2)Having date complication on this watch makes less sense, as this model never had a date. However, I understand how many like having a date on this homage. 3)Lastly, I definitely prefer Steinhart's 1655 homage with the cyclops vs the one without. To me, in my opinion, the cyclops is iconic and love it for that reason. But also understand, for many, it's polarizing. I do see on occasion negative comments about the cyclops, but it's actually practical in my opinion. Loved the video btw, even if we disagree on this point.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for your comment. I don’t actually disagree. I can see the arguments for and against the cyclops magnifier.

[@timothythomas1626]

Solid and right on in your Scores.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that :)

[@robkay278]

I have 4 Steinharts, they are amazing value and quality I have Rolex’s bought before the stupid price hype,now I would say forget Rolex buy a Steinhart on a bracelet for winter put on a zuludiver for summertime,ditch Rolex & buy a wondrous steiny

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing - wow that’s a big rap for Steinhart!

[@mad3m6n]

Fair and well done comparison. Too bad the Ginault is that expensive. Although I get the made in America meaning and the superb quality. But than again, $1400 for a homage watch? I just got my ocean one today and it wear and feels as a Rolex Submariner wannabe. I don't think it would feel any different with the Ginault. If you are willing to spend $1400 on a homage you might as well save up another grand and get yourself a brand new Tudor BlackBay.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for the comment Pietro - good thoughts. It seems that in reality it will remain easy to get a discount on the Ginault price, either use one of the current codes or just write to the company I hear... you will get it for about $850. I have had a number of Steinhart watches in hand and I do think the Ginault overall does have better refinement and feel, it's hard to quantify but it's there.

[@fortza11]

Is Ginault really a US watch!! Yes, borrowed designs of watches that are no longer made (For Steinhart it´s Rolex 5517). The only thing that is better on the Ginault is the borrowed clasp from "R", and then they also are using the Oyster case, which Steinhart doesn´t use. If Steinhart has made the same clasp, it must have been a winner for sure. And if you want to measure on X-Factor, then Steinhart differently must-win due to the fact that it´s a homage to the very expensive 5517, and Steinhart you can get in two different sizes, 39 mm. and 42 mm. so a watch for all.

[@PerthWAtch]

How to confirm if it’s “really a US watch”? If you find out, please let me know. There is no question that Ginault is the better watch here - the fit, in hand feel, finishing, bracelet… all of it is better whereas nothing in the Steinhart is objectively better. So the only objective question is whether the (marginally) higher price is worthwhile.

[@snacklofter]

What a great review - very fair. It would have to be the Steinhart for me - purely due to budget! atb.snack

[@PerthWAtch]

Thank you very much for the comment and support. I think this was very close, and Steinhart definitely wins on the value stakes!

[@zzyzxzee6374]

I dont think that at 3 times the price for the genot the choice is obvious. Use the extra money to buy another good watch for the collection. Had my steiny for 3 years and diving too in the black sea...

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing that. How about 1.5x price? That seems to be the true going rate that many people have purchased a Ginault for...

[@joekelly9369]

The steinhart bracelet is as good as any seiko,s , but i have always put zulu.s or nato.s on for diving . I have one with a bracelet the pcean 1 39 .. its solid after a year of abuse

[@PerthWAtch]

I would say the Steinhart bracelet is better than most Seiko Divers, but that's also not a very high bar to jump over ;)

[@zatoichi1335]

Holy Toledo ! There are some angry people on here. Anyway, thanks for all the reviews of 2017 and have a great new year. Cheers.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for that mate - most welcome, and your support is most appreciated! All the best for 2018!

[@carmeloalfano6963]

Omg their is nothing more boring than a watch snob!! Get over yourselves lol Rolex don’t give rats arse about these homages why should you. To all the “angry people” I say this, Get a life. 😊peace!

[@PerthWAtch]

Haha fair point Carmelo... however perhaps consider replying on the "angry" threads? That way you may get some good engagement :)

[@soidog659]

Steinhart wins hand down in my opinion. Lower price counts.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

[@krekmanski]

german+swiss quality vs an american brand with a french name?? c'mon... ETA elabore vs ETA clone ? the only points for the Ginault are the glide lock, thicker lugs and the red hand.

[@PerthWAtch]

Fair enough points, but dude did you watch the video? The enamel dial of the Ginault is definitely better, and IMO so is the overall finishing. And how can possibly not agree that the 40mm Ginault is more versatile than the 42mm Steinhart??

[@Jedi391]

Just the bracelet alone catapults the Ginault over the top.

[@PerthWAtch]

Everything else being equal, one factor will put it over the other. Not sure about “catapult” though…

[@alexsdg3441]

Hi Ivan, I just was browsing your youtube uploads and found this video and watched it again. In the light of Ginault controversy, specially the movement being made in China as a clone of ETA and being unreliable, I guess that a lot of things can be changed in this challenge. Of course, calibre will be lowered.. probably to 5 or so. And when the movement gets doubtful like this, all other categories will be affected in my opinion. Such as Quality, Performance, Durability, Brand and even X-factor. It would be very interesting to see again, re-evaluation of these two watches. thanks Ivan and have a good day.

[@PerthWAtch]

Interesting thoughts Alex... personally I would aim to remain as objective as possible - the movement is indeed a clone of ETA but I have not heard any issues about poor reliability, and my own Ginault continues to run well. Probably might drop it as it's not "assembled in USA" but I think not to a 5. *Quality* with regards to the case, dial, bracelet, etc remains unchanged. As does *durability* which is mostly related to material choice and build/thickness. *Performance* similarly includes the bezel function & lume for a dive watch (unchanged), and also the accuracy (which is pretty good). So if anything the main effect of the controversy would be on the *brand* and *X-factor* marks.

[@Claus-L.Mueller]

IMHO 8 out of 10 is too high for both watches. What you are going to give a real Rolex or other premium luxury watch? Especially the X-factor is more like a 3 compared to premium brands.

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for the comment - just my view and scale really, I would say the main focus is the comparator between these pieces, without necessarily taking into context every watch in current retail. However I do try to mark within my range of experience - Rolex would be the best I've seen in several categories and therefore would be 10/10 where relevant. I've never seen a Patek or AP, so that's beyond my current range.

[@mickmouse3513]

Save yerself some money & just ask someone time time.

[@PerthWAtch]

That's predicated on the assumption that watches are primarily (or even secondarily) for telling the time... which is not the case for most watch enthusiasts

[@joshbeck289]

I love my Steinhart

[@PerthWAtch]

Nice :)

[@GordonLF]

Of course the Ginault is a better watch. So is a Rolex Submariner. The fair duels are when you compare watches whose prices are about the same, not 3 times more.

[@PerthWAtch]

This was never supposed to be “fair” - it’s to inform what makes the expensive watch better. Or conversely I sometimes point out why a more expensive watch isn’t so much better!

[@GordonLF]

@@PerthWAtch Fair enough

[@Barbien194]

Come on. The Ginault is obviously Chinese. Stop saying it is probably American.

[@PerthWAtch]

You may be right, but I am reporting based on information I can find. There is a whole heap of suspicions about this brand with no actual proof I have seen - if you have any helpful references I would be most happy to take a look.

[@Mark-sd7fc]

I own them both, and the ginault has a better bracelet that’s the only thing it has over the Steinhart, the Ginault has a Chinese copy of the ETA movement and Steinhart has a real Swiss ETA movement , there’s some extensive regulation on the ginault but I don’t think that makes it worth 3 times more than the Steinhart, my new ocean vintage red was $400 and the ginault is going for $1000 to $1300 used (eBay) I’m probably gonna sell the ocean rover and buy another Steinhart and some kinda seiko diver also, but don’t get me wrong the ginault fit and finish is amazing and it’s a awesome watch , but the bottom dollar is the dollar! Also for some reason every time I look at the ginault I see a fake Rolex and when I look at my Steinhart I see a gorgeous Steinhart?

[@PerthWAtch]

Isn’t Ginault Made in the USA?

[@Mark-sd7fc]

@@PerthWAtch assembled in the USA

[@PerthWAtch]

Sounds like Ginault has managed to create some good demand!

[@Mark-sd7fc]

@@PerthWAtch oh ya, you making me an offer?

[@PerthWAtch]

Nope

[@markfallon7694]

The excuses channel. Lol! You make excuses for Invicta and Seiko's quality control. Look, it is just a matter of preference. I think that Ginault is the better value. If someone else prefers Steinhart, so be it. Question, do you own either watch? Were you willing to invest your money in either watch. I will guess not. Squale is another company that produces a very good Submariner homage.

[@PerthWAtch]

I don't recall making excuses for those brands... I have no reason to, but let me know where you think I've done this. Yes it comes down to preference in many cases, no doubt about that mate. I own this Ginault and I would very happily buy this Steinhart myself (and have bought other Steinhart models)... not sure what you're getting at there. And yes, Squale make a good Sub homage, 100% agreed ;)

[@edwardcrater3591]

@@PerthWAtch Lots of people have reported that the Steinhart has an overly stiff bezel. I am also a very big fan of Squale. I think many of their cases are among the most beautiful.

[@dannyt6160]

@@edwardcrater3591 I hope you won't make excuses for Ginault then, given that they're nothing more than rebranded counterfeit Rolexes. lexic.co/deepdweller/exposing-ginaults-illegal-past-tsung-chi-and-thomas-caddell

[@giampaolop5775]

I have a Ginault no date sand lume. I had also two Steinhart (Ocean 42 and Ocean 39 green bezel). After holding the Ginault, I sold the Steinharts (one of them unworn). I also visited the Steinhart showroom, where I could try on my wrist the whole production, including the GMT Pepsi I liked very much in pictures. Compared to the Ginault they look dull with no charme, with exception of the Ocean 39 GMT Premium 500. After almost two years, my Ginault keeps the value I paid for it, is very accurate and I like it more and more. I replaced the two Steinharts with two SEIKO (SKX 007 and 009) + a number of straps. Of course everything in my humple opinion.

[@151284d]

ginault top

[@PerthWAtch]

What?

[@151284d]

@@PerthWAtch GINAULT is a fantastic watch that cannot be compared to a steinhart

[@PerthWAtch]

Ah why didn’t you just say so? And yes, it can be compared, very appropriately. Check out my video ;)

[@151284d]

@@PerthWAtch the finishes of the GINAULT are much superior .. I have them both but steinhart is of poor quality compared to the Ocean Rover 2 .. still nice video

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for sharing your views

[@tjschakow]

So you could buy a Steinhart and pay $400 for a $300 dollar watch, or you could by a Ginault and pay $1300 for a $4000 watch. When Ginault gets some market share and their movements withstands the test of time the honeymoon will be over and the price will rise to meet the quality of excellence and value they offer. The Ginault is more along the lines of a Omega in quality.

[@PerthWAtch]

Interesting view... although I'm not sure why you think that. Ginault is better in quality than Steinhart, but more along the lines of Oris perhaps. For $4000 you should expect better than a 2824 movement... a 2892 perhaps, which in Omega you get the unique coaxial modification and also COSC certification. Or full in house. None of this in the Ginault... I don't think it's anywhere near $4k and most people seem to feel it's fair at around $800 or so.

[@jasonkeith1725]

I think that you are comparing apples and oranges. The Ginault should be compared to let's say the Squale homage to the Submariner. Frankly, I find the Ginault overpriced. As for Steinhart, I was less than impressed. I found so many little things that were just unacceptable.as for the bezel, the absolute worst. Two other reviewers also agreed with. Possibly Steinhart just lacks in quality control. Anyway, to say that these two watches are on par, I just have one question, what have you been smoking? ))))

[@PerthWAtch]

Thank you for your considered opinion. I would suggest watching the video properly to understand why these watches are comparable, and why it's really apples and apples. I ended up with the same mark, but that's not the same as saying they are "on par"... they have different strengths, as has been detailed. As for Steinhart quality - I am going with what I see in hand. Two reviewers out of dozens agree with you? Well what more can I say... Have a nice day ;) PS. Send me that Squale you refer to, I would more than happy to do the comparison :)

[@jasonkeith1725]

@@PerthWAtch I have no idea what watch it properly means. Opinions are just subjective and I disagree with yours. As for my Squale, buy your own or ask Squale to send you one for review. Such nonsense.LMAO!

[@PerthWAtch]

Hahaha obviously subjective - if you've had both of these watches then you are of course entitled to your opinion which you have shared. As for the Squale, no thank you, I have no desire to purchase one... but if I'm lent one, no problem, I will review it. How amusing. LMAO! ;)

[@markfallon7694]

@@PerthWAtch, why would anyone lend you a watch? Won't Squale send you one? Other Aussie reviewers have made videos on this brand.

[@markfallon7694]

@@PerthWAtch by the way, do you own either of these watches?

[@ivankerr3570]

Why would anyone buy a Ginault from a dubious maker using Chinese cloned movement claiming its made in America. Yes they look great but so do some of the fakes/ replicas and this isn’t much different.

[@PerthWAtch]

Check out the comments on this and other Ginault reviews on my channel for insight on this. In short, the product is pretty well proven, and the quality, fit, feel & finish are unequalled for the asking price.

[@deaatlanta5818]

good video production, although I am against replica/homage watches because they are cheaply made chinese copies for the most part, save up and get the real thing or just buy a replica whats the difference..

[@PerthWAtch]

Thanks for the comment - good thought and fair enough perspective I think. And true that for the most part it's as you say - what do you think of Steinhart though? (German company, Swiss made label, elabore grade ETA movements) There is a considerable school of thought who do not want to "lie" by getting a replica but will happily get an homage - I guess many do see a difference in that.

[@deaatlanta5818]

Perth WAtch very controversial topic...i guess its a love it or hate it thing i have tried a homage and i feel fake and rather wear a gshock or something

[@PerthWAtch]

Yeah fair enough view I reckon - it's controversial for sure and there is no shortage of debate on this it seems! Thanks again for your comments!