The 5th Horseman of Atheism is Christian Now (and I don't care)

[@chibbersthesquirrel6189]

It's very telling that her "reasons for becoming a Christian" didn't include anything about believing that Christianity was actually true, but rather just seeing it as a utility tool for accomplishing political goals. What surprised me is how readily every Christian seems to be to just accept and embrace it. I thought a lot more of them would be calling her out for the fact that she all but admits that she doesn't actually believe it's true, but instead the majority of the Christians commenting on it seem to be embracing her hypocritical adopting of the label.

[@wellesradio]

That surprised you? After Trump?

[@loganleatherman7647]

It’s almost like these type of people only care about superficial labels/identities so they can set you apart from the threatening “others”. Once you claim you’re on their side, even without giving any justifications as to why, you’re good and they’ll more readily accept what you have to say. Works like a charm every time

[@nicholasfiala6205]

The most dangerous kind of misinformation is misinformation that a person likes. In this scenario, the headline said a thing they like. After that it was effectively a speedrun for the share button.

[@timauth]

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.” ― Seneca (c. 4 BCE-65 CE)

[@jacksonelmore6227]

You stagnate in the bitterness of social issues, forgive her and understand I Am

[@IllustriousCrocoduck]

Essentially she has come full circle from being the person that religion is intended to control, to being the person who wants to use religion to control others. Lol.

[@haley5803]

The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one

[@botanicamelancholia]

It's remarkable how readily she is able to go all in with her conservative allies and "convert" when she knows that the core reasons why theocratic Islam encroaches on rights to freedom and dignity are the same as what drove Christianity to do the same historically (& even now with Christian nationalist movements): the dogmatic call to obey and control others.

[@dennisduncan7561]

How do you figure?

[@IllustriousCrocoduck]

@@dennisduncan7561 if I take Drew's description of what she said, it sounds like she just wants to use religion to counter religion. It's meant to control people and is an easy way to reinforce and opposition group to whatever she feels is a threat.

[@Sephiroth144]

Wait, wouldn't that be half a circle...?

[@BubbaF0wpend]

*a christian leaves the faith for bad reasons* "You were obviously never a true christian!" *an atheist joins the faith for bad reasons* "Hallelujah! God is good! Welcome!! I knew the lord would lead you here some day!*

[@zarbins]

I once was lost and now am found!

[@wabolicyri2143]

Athiest leaves Matt dilahunty religion : “ you were never truly a atheist “

[@BubbaF0wpend]

@@wabolicyri2143 matt dillahunty religion? What?

[@dartskihutch4033]

​@@BubbaF0wpendas in a religious like following with types of zealots who decry those who abandon his ideology (which i personally find annoying aince his entire thesis is "im not convinced" but provides zero cosmic belief himself thats open to criticism)

[@dartskihutch4033]

Well, its not up to us to judge someone's belief in jesus as true or not, since only that person will know their truth. She could be a true Christian and as a bonus it helps her political career, or the opposite, but thats not for us to judge with any certainty.

[@kharynj6629]

I’m not getting the impression she is now pro-Jesus. She always seemed more anti-Islam than atheist. Her christianity seems like a continuation of that.

[@johnpower29]

Exactly this.

[@EdwardHowton]

What you're suggesting sounds, to me, as if she heard Pordan Jeterson's ridiculous nonsense and thought to herself "yeah that guy is right". Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. "Um, liek, I'm _culturally_ christian? Because, um, liek, I clean my room, and also something about, liek, lobsters or whatever?"

[@warshield924]

@@EdwardHowton Her voice always sounded more Fascist sheik than valley girl but still fun

[@rainbowkrampus]

This is my impression as well. I've run into a handful of ex-muslim women who are functionally just anti-muslim bigots. Taking valid criticisms of islam and muslim majority countries and turning them into essentialist ideas about all muslims. Which like, the overreaction is understandable coming from a woman who not only experienced islam firsthand but also experienced leaving islam. But it's still an overreaction which has lead to unjustifiable beliefs. So, pretty cringe.

[@LordTails]

100% agree. It really just reeks of "I'm so anti-Muslim" I'm going to whatever I view as the winning team which in itself damages your credibility (even though the reaction is understandable). I'm not Muslim but I've met enough Muslims and ex-Muslims to feel some level of embarrassment seeing how she is acting.

[@rmdodsonbills]

Nobody undermines Christianity more than political Christians themselves.

[@jacksonelmore6227]

Christianity should be undermined by its hypocrisy As should atheism You insightfully speak of manmade Christianity, it’s ideology, dogma, group ego, and social tyranny But you are petty and bitter Which is why you speak of THIS and not Christ, or his message, which shall never be undermined 🙌🏼

[@espurrseyes42]

Nobody undermines [BLANK] more than political [BLANK]s themselves.

[@willjapheth23789]

​@maximgruner I think it would be understandable to be a doubtful Christian, like you are unsure, but don't want to abandon your religion. But converting so you can use the religion as a political foundation or worse a tool, that's inexcusable and gross. Maybe this is what the lying to the holy spirit sin is referring to.

[@wickedcabinboy]

@maximgruner - In what way is christianity "true?"

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

@maximgruner Speaking as an ex-Christian thankful to have been freed from Christianity, how, exactly, is it that Christianity has been proven true? I want chapter and verse that isn't from the wholly babble. You Christians love to make shit up. How about actually producing evidence?

[@scratchfg212]

I remember her saying that ‘we need to give Muslims the option to switch to Christianity to fight against Islamism’ - no surprise. She’s always been a mixed bag for me.

[@thedaijal2935]

They shouldn't be given anything, because they shouldn't be here. Islamic migration will be the death of the West. Close the borders, and deport them.

[@wonderlife62]

I think shes calling for the help of one bully to fight another to restore order to society in her mind

[@moatasemkassab4517]

I'm an ex-Muslim, but sometimes that woman just makes no sense to me.

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

⁠@@wonderlife62best summary I’ve heard yet

[@MiladTabasy]

A person who leaves islam for political purposes will accept another religion for political purposes too. The double standard of atheists here is that when it comes to her leaving islam, they associate politics with religion but when it comes to her accepting christianity they separate politics from religion. Such hypocritical atheists!😏

[@AJansenNL]

Ayaan is an opportunist, her religion is herself and what benefits her. From lying on her asylum application, to entering Dutch politics as a left-winger, shifting to the right when that made her more popular, to the extreme right when that gave her more clout. As right-wing politics in the USA is entwined with conservative Christianity, her becoming a Christian is only a 'logical' next step. (I'm a Dutch ex-muslim, same age as Ayaan. I followed her career from the beginning.)

[@edin991]

This is a perfect description of her. She is essentially a female version of Trump. She doesn't believe in any of the religious nonsense but will claim to be what she is not in order to further her popularity among the newly embraced crowd. This is the worst type of character in a human.

[@ArjanKop]

Very true. She’s been opportunistic for as long as we’ve seen, which is a lot longer than the English speaking world has seen her. She’s an intellectual lightweight at best.

[@matthewsteele5229]

I was about to say; it seems like Ayaan reactionary atheisted her way all the way back to a Christian nationalist bent

[@littleking1994two]

Or the left pushed her to the right by constantly defending the religion that abused her. Eventually your going to move where you are excepted

[@ibrahimmahadfarah7510]

That such a dumb and incomplete analysis. Ayaan was to be in an abusive forced religious marriage and choose the best way out, I won't shame her for that. Her change from left-wing ro right-wing was a natural evolution when any criticism at time were and still are considered 'islamophobic' by the left. Also, she's been in the USA for decades now, she could have converted long ago and earned big bucks as a Christian ex-muslim, she didn't. You're projecting malice intent in a way reminiscent of a certain religion. (I'm a Somali ex-muslim, also followed ber career ).

[@originalhgc]

The reason she doesn't address the religious question of being a Christian is because this is an entirely political stunt. She's a Christian in the American style (ie., political religion) because she wants to burrow more deeply into her right-wing milieu, methinks.

[@QU67Reacher6]

I would say it's basically this. She's in with the right-wing grifter machine, so why not make herself more marketable to them? Maybe she will convert, maybe she already has. I don't particularly care as her political views are ridiculous to me. Hopefully she at least makes some good bank off this, though.

[@idkjustaname]

100%

[@pauligrossinoz]

​@@QU67Reacher6- I guarantee that she'll profit from this. American Christians seem utterly stupid and willing to part with their hard-earned cash for her type of grift. 🙄

[@norml.hugh-mann]

​@@QU67Reacher6I hope ALL grifters using mythology lose money..they are harming our society

[@wernerviehhauser94]

Christian in the American style.... phrasing it this ways seems so strange but yet so true. Christianity in the USA is something european christians and atheists alike consider far beyond cringy.

[@ericdaniel323]

It’s weird that we have this dichotomy between Christianity and atheism. Just once I would like to hear someone say “I’m no longer an atheist; I believe in the Hellenistic pantheon of gods and goddesses who sometimes interact with humanity.”

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Those people exist! I know polytheists who used to be atheists. In fact it’s not uncommon for pagans to be former atheists

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Oh, those are just Wiccans. They're harmless. Mostly just humanists with a little sprinkle of the esoteric to keep things interesting and fun.

[@stevenvaleriojr1177]

​@ChristopherSadlowski There are MANY more forms of paganism then Wicca. And some are far from "harmless", particularly those that have hijacked Thor and Odin for the far right.

[@zarbins]

There are emergent pagan sects in Scandinavia as well. So your idea is not far from the truth. Also, many are making the case that modern leftist religiosity is a sort of polytheistic worship of various demigods given its removal from the scientific and rational.

[@joeymork84]

​@@stevenvaleriojr1177 I never comment on YT because it's almost always asking for trouble (usually ends up being a theistic debate, which I'm not interested in having), but I have to say that's not always the case. Speaking solely for myself, I always identified as atheist (as well as right-leaning, believe it or not), but have recently embraced Norse Paganism and also am way more left-leaning now. I do worship and give offerings to Odin, specifically, but I do wear a Mjolnir, as well. As I said, I have no interest in any sort of debate, I'm just putting it out there that some of us (I'd hazard to say *most*) are not the way ppl tend to think. Every other Pagan I've met who is serious about it really are harmless. We just want to be left alone to our beliefs. That's not to say there aren't any around as you described, I just wouldn't consider them the majority. Also, to @GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic: Love the shirt as well as your content, keep it up! 😊

[@DarkSideOfTheForceKin]

Her being on prageru is already enough reason to never care about anything she has to say.

[@gabrieledwards1066]

Yeah, it didn't seem like she had very far to go to flip.

[@im-not-alone5587]

''She wasn't really an atheist'' huh? Sounds familiar xD

[@nondescriptcat5620]

@@im-not-alone5587 no, we don't care if she's an atheist, and she's almost certainly not a christian. she's just an opportunistic reactionary grifter with no actual beliefs.

[@gabrieledwards1066]

@im-not-alone5587 I've read that comment a few times and nowhere does the OP make that accusation. Not sure where you're getting that interpretation from unless you're trying to make a straw man.

[@im-not-alone5587]

@@gabrieledwards1066 I mean, GMS said he himself read some some atheists say it

[@MoovySoundtrax]

Hard to accuse her of never being a real atheist when, based on that article, she seems to still be one right now.

[@authenticallysuperficial9874]

😅

[@authenticallysuperficial9874]

Good point

[@darlenegriffith6186]

Plus, you don't want to go down that same line of thought as Christians who claim that those who deconvert must have never been real Christians.

[@justanothernick3984]

Like Drew said, it's not about what you label yourself as, it's what you do that shows your values. And based off of that, we can evaluate your trustworthyness. Ayaan has always (to my knowledge) been an apologist for center-right political values so I have not seen her as a particularly empathic person.

[@Bloink]

@@justanothernick3984 So you're prejudicial? Did i win!?

[@ajplays-gamesandmusic4568]

I guarantee this woman just did a cost-benefit analysis, and determined she’d gotten all the mileage out of being an Atheist that she could, and in order to continue the political dark web grift, she’d be more successful identifying as a Christian.

[@zarbins]

Someone doesn't agree with your world view? Surely they must be a grifter... such profound insight. Having seen tens of thousand become disillusioned with the illiberal authoritarian left and become politically homeless it is possible for people to change their minds or even grow, perhaps. This woman has been through more in her life than can be imagined, you're reductive analysis, adds nothing of value. Let me ask you this when did you first become aware of Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Have you read any of her books or followed her journey through western politics, the death threats placed on her, and the killing of her friend? Was she also just grifting when she was in New York with Hitchens and Oxford with Dawkins?

[@anatomarx]

​@@zarbins she was always controversial in ex-muslim circles for associating with european far-right politicians

[@zarbins]

@@anatomarx Oh, of course, "far right" groups like the Labour Party (socialist-democratic party in the Netherlands) and then the People's Party of Freedom and Democracy (classical liberal party) and all of her associations with feminists, secular humanists, and atheists. Being controversial in ex-muslim circles when promoting woman's rights, self-determination, humanism, atheism, and liberalism is warranted and not controversial. You call anything "far right" it means nothing at this point. I do understand she did move away from the socialists-democratic party and embraced private enterprise and economic liberalism along with aforementioned values. I'm assuming you're a Marxist and this must be troubling for you, but lets stop with the smearing and ad-hominin. Far-right... In the Netherlands? Please....

[@anatomarx]

@@zarbins oh please. we all know that geert wilders is far-right

[@zarbins]

@@anatomarx He's a populist who's rise is due to leftist authoritarian Marxists like yourself. I'm getting quite sick of it.

[@TheIronDonkey]

Maybe the real horseman was the friends we made along the way! ❤ you drew! Keep up the amazing work. I've been binging you and Taylor's content. Your compassion and empathy is palpable.

[@Yourghostuncle]

This was so funny 😂😂😭😭😭

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

🐎 🤠 Tysm ❤️

[@benoitcecyre7081]

You friendeists you!!!!!!!!

[@theunclejezusshow8260]

I doubt these 4 Horseman could even ride a horse and especially the 5th, well She was never a real Equestrian in the first place 😢😂

[@Iaremoosable]

As a Dutch person it's interesting how Americans view her. When she lived here and was politically active here, she wasn't known for her atheism. We're mostly atheism here anyway. She was known for being anti-islam and she hated the political left. So this change in faith weather real or not doesn't surprise me at all.

[@laffecaffelott]

She started out on the left till she realised they didnt want to do anything about the rising issues of islam. Being betrayed by and smeared as hateful by the people you thaught would be your allies is a very galvanising experience, im not surprised shed grow to really resent the political left for their hypocracy on this matter

[@AndaraBledin]

From what I've read of her, the reason she became Islamophobic was purely because of how it repressed women in general, but more importantly, her specifically. She's been to Israel, so I get the impression she was shopping around and found Christianity to be the better fit of the remaining 2 Abrahamic religions.

[@scottkidder9046]

Don’t you find it odd that to be progressive, you have to both champion women’s rights and also refrain from criticizing other cultures for oppressing women? Is oppressing women wrong or not? Surely it doesn’t depend on cultural preferences… I also wonder what Islamophobia even is. Islam is not a race. You could argue it’s a culture, but it’s no more a culture than Christianity. In the end, it’s a set of beliefs. It should be okay to criticize a set of beliefs just like it’s okay to question Christianity. Nobody is considered xenophobic for questioning Christianity because that’s silly. Christianity is a set of ideas shared by people all over the world with different cultures, norms, and perspectives. Islam is no different. Why then is criticizing Islam considered “Islamophobic?” I’m just skeptical of it even existing. There will always be hate crimes. Some Muslims hate Christians and they commit acts of terror or hate against them. Some Christians hate Muslims and they commit acts of terror and hate against them. It’s wrong no matter who does it to who. I don’t know the exact stats, but worldwide, Muslims are more likely to commit acts of hate and terror. Even still, it would be wrong to assume most Muslims are evil and it would be wrong to harass Muslims or treat them with less dignity because they are Muslim. But I can say that while also being critical of them and expecting them to do better just like I expect Christianity to do better and am critical of Christianity.

[@ImSakina_]

@@AndaraBledinbut christianity is also extremely sexist? i highly doubt she’s read the bible otherwise she would see that. the only difference is most christians, at least in developed countries, are modern now and choose to ignore those verses.

[@tomasrocha6139]

​@@AndaraBledin "Islamophobic" is just a slur used to silence and suppress criticism of Islam because Islam can't withstand any questioning or scrutiny whatsoever.

[@justinb864]

Being a Christian Nationalist without actually believing in Christianity is a new one, but I’m sure we’re going to see more of that.

[@varunachar87]

It's not new: it's exactly what Trump is. It's all the political positions of an American Christian conservative (e.g. on women's reproductive rights, gun control, immigration...) without the irrelevant Jesus stuff.

[@maverick7291]

Not for me. In the Canadian province of Quebec, the majority are atheist and very left wing, but call themselves culturally Catholic/Christian. It's a French society that is demographically dying due to its social choices which were many decades ahead of the United States. Anyways if you want to know how it will end in the states if they state hardcore secular, atheist and leftist... just follow Quebec news for the next 20 years.. I'm thinking 20 years is enough before the society is at its true disarray.

[@albertmagician8613]

Really? Trump is a prime example of that. In the Moslim world undoubtedly there people in powerful positions who don't actually believe.

[@Mehki227]

Actually, I've seen people admit that exactly what it means for them now. It's not a religious statement anymore. It's a political one.

[@justinb864]

@@Mehki227 Make no mistake, the evangelical movement has always been more political than religious.

[@BrianHartman]

Her argument is weak, insofar as it's completely utilitarian. Sam Harris dealt with this kind of thinking years ago. To paraphrase, the fact that believing that there's a gigantic diamond buried in your backyard gives you some kind of pleasure doesn't make it true. And whether it's true matters.

[@unknowngamer37415]

Especially because most Christian groups explicitly denounce utilitarian justification for belief. ( They vouch for God being real not us acting as if God was real)

[@im-not-alone5587]

Not if by believing that, you start digging and find some precious things that helps you in your everyday day life.

[@rokhamler3352]

​​@@im-not-alone5587but if you start digging and devote your entire life and find nothing resembling the precious diamond that is a huge problem. Especially when you have entire industries that wanna sell you the shovels, equipment and land deeds just waiting for the opportunity to profit from it.

[@im-not-alone5587]

@@rokhamler3352 some claim they found it tho. And we see their lives drastically improve. That fits the utilitarian view at least. The goal of utilitarianism isn't to say that something is TRUE, but actually as stated in the name, that it is USEFUL.

[@rokhamler3352]

@@im-not-alone5587 you can say that for anything that you find to be your calling, especially if there is a support net that comes along with it.

[@christianketterling7590]

Everytime I hear any right leaning pundit using "wokeism" as a blanket thing to slander something that doesn't fit their worldview I feel like an exasperated Inigo Montoya telling a baffled Vezzini that he keeps using a word that doesn't mean what he thinks it means lol

[@mikolmisol6258]

The meaning doesn't matter. In fact, its meaning should be actively ignored since it's a right-wing dogwhistle. Same with "common sense". 😕

[@wet-read]

I feel like Deputy Samuel Gerard of the U.S. Marshalls, who once told his underlings he didn't like them using words that have no meaning around him. "Woke" is so broad and vague at this point that it is pretty much meaningless. Ditto for "masterpiece".

[@DianaCHewitt]

Yeah, it seems to just mean anything culturally associated with liberalism or LGBT people. It's so vague it's hard to know what people mean.

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

The thing is, Vezzini *_couldn't_* conceive of the events he labeled "inconceivable"; he wasn't using the word wrong, it absolutely means what he thought it meant, but in doing so he just highlighted his own lack of imagination.

[@Salikino]

I call myself woke and see it as a good thing. If someone called me woke, no matter how negatively they say it, I will take i as a complement.

[@dustinarand]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: It's condescending for Western scholars to say that the 9/11 terrorists weren't motivated by religion, but by political, historical, economic, and social grievances. Also Ayaan Hirsi Ali: I'm gonna call myself Christian, not because of my theological convictions, but because of my political, historical, economic, and social grievances.

[@EdwardHowton]

We've all been saying, all of us, for _years_ now, 'It's a shame us atheists are so moral because there'd be so much money in being a 'former atheist' and working for Fox or something.' WELP. It was only a matter of time before someone with dubious ethics would make the predictable jump.

[@AndaraBledin]

She's worked with PragerU for years. She made the jump quite a while ago, and is only just now declaring it for political purposes. Considering the timing, likely as a shield against potential Islamophobic comments against the Palestinian people, seeing as she's already gone on record to praise Netanyahu.

[@EdwardHowton]

@@AndaraBledin As I said, I really didn't know much about this person, outside of the two (so far) videos about her "conversion" that have come out the past few days. Her appearance in a PragerU video didn't seem like a new thing, from the single clip in the video. Basically, she's always been an opportunist. They dodged a bullet when they chose Daniel Dennett over this sad embarrassment to humanity for the "Four Horsemen". I'd put even odds on her doing the _salat_ five times a day still despite being an "ex" muslim. You can't get more false than this kind of trash-for-pay.

[@gregm766]

It seems to be a trend among right leaning ight wing atheist that make their money from being right wing, to claim that they are now Christians. I am not sure if she has genuinely converted, or if being Christian just fits her grift more.

[@taylorlibby7642]

So if someone from the right is making content it's a "grift" but if someone from the left is making content it's not?

[@darrenshark73]

Yes bc right wing n Christianity is a marriage now...being right wing has nothing to do with religion but today's retrumplicans have made it that way😅

[@taylorlibby7642]

​@@darrenshark73All you're doing there is mirroring what they say about atheists. IMO your stance seems more reactionary than thought out.

[@fredericksaxton9782]

​@@taylorlibby7642 Because what are left wingers grifting on??? Human fights????? Right wingers have a reason to use Christianity to their advantage if they hate certain people, like gay and trans people, just because it fits their narrative, not because it's actually helpfu or anything. Maybe some left wingers, who I haven't seen often, do this but it is *SO COMMON* among right wingers I see it all the time. I mean, even the "left wingers" I *HAVE* seen who do that eventually suddenly become right wing extremists. I mean, look at the person who tried to copyright the bi flag!!! They suddenly hard right turned into being anti-lgbtq+ *JUST* because they didn't get to copyright *A FLAG MADE BY SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!* They do it because they want recognition and profit for their weird or hateful views, not because they have genuine intentions. "Let me copyright someone else's work so I make money!" "Let me, a trans person, hate other trans people so right wingers can call me slurs but toss me some peanuts!!!" "Let me call drag queens gr00mers as hundreds of kids get m0lested at my church, but we don't do anything because we believe in "forgivness" or some shit!!!!!" One is *CLEARLY* not like the other when it comes to intentions.

[@QU67Reacher6]

@@taylorlibby7642 A lot right-wing talking points can be traced back to Lee Atwater and the "new Southern strategy." You can't say the n-word, so you say forced busing and states' rights kind of thing. They're saying the same shit now, just using different terms. Some of them know it, some of them don't care, some are ignorant. They're pushing states' rights when they mean restricting freedoms, and they try to make political arguments but push them and they either can't give a good reason or fall back on religion. So yes, they're lying or at least lying via omission to the people consuming the content and profiting off it. They're grifters. In my opinion.

[@Connorthecatsdad]

I really liked this video. Short, digestible, and raised some really good points about how easily people on either side can claim a victory without even thinking about why they're calling it a win. My brain added one wrinkle today

[@zarbins]

Similarly, how easy it is to ignore a defeat by not knowing what woke even means.

[@IpsissimusPrime]

😂 thanks for your concise spot on commentary. I love the brain wrinkle comment! 😆

[@asadx.veganx]

I'm neurodivergent and even though religion is my special interest, I struggle a lot to collect the energy I need to watch a 30min video. This short videa helped me reconect with my interests after depression made it almost impossible to do so

[@pauligrossinoz]

I've never heard of her until now ... but I have a question: *Does she actually believe that some dude killed by the Romans for sedition about 2,000 years ago was actually resurrected by a god?* Because of she doesn't actually believe that, then she's as "Christian" as I am. And I'm an atheist.

[@nondescriptcat5620]

of course not. she's a conservative, she doesn't have beliefs other than "i want as much money as possible."

[@ManDuderGuy]

I think that she (and Lil' Jordy Petes, to name another) are cleaving to what you might call "civilizational christianity" and not doctrinal or biblical literalist christianity. You know how "the west" used to also be called "christendom" by westerners and non-westerners, despite still having plenty of secular foundations and secular values? It's kinda like that. It's muddy but I can see where they're coming from. Truth is, "atheism" isn't really a movement or worldview any more than "non-stamp collecting" is a hobby. People look for some sort of constitution and often end up leaning on old ways that come with some baggage of supernaturalism/spiritism; even if those people are also effectively naturalists.

[@crispincoque]

... resurrected by a god, but also *was* that same god, sacrificing himself to appease himself, so that his own creations could by worshipping his mutilated self avoid the eternal hellfire that he would otherwise inflict on them, because they shared the guilt of an ancestor who ate the wrong piece of fruit ... 🤦‍♂️

[@LittleBitofHopeToo2518]

If the definition of Christian is Fascist, she is a Christian.

[@robokill387]

@@ManDuderGuy This isn't a biblical literalist thing. The entire point of christianity is accepting jesus christ as the incarnate diety who died for your sins and accepting him as your savior. There are tons of doctrinal differences, sure, but if you don't believe in that basic idea, then you aren't a christian.

[@thelakeman2538]

Anyone talking about "civilisational challenges" or talking about how their civilisation is being threatened, is an instant red flag for me, only varying degrees of right wing formations across the world seem to use this rhetoric, generally not the moderate kind.

[@Random_user_8472]

Religion is the main cause of civilisational challenges

[@jeronimo196]

Imagine someone on the right saying "only the woke talk about "existential risks", that's a red flag for me". I'd consider that a damning claim - against the right. It would mean the right lacks the tools to face - or even the ability to conceive of - an existential risk. Every civilization is destined to fall one day, ours is no exception.

[@brandonkennedy4160]

Christians have been doing this for centuries! I remember hearing when I was a kid that Christians are being attacked. It’s laughably ridiculous now.

[@brandonkennedy4160]

@@Random_user_8472 fr. I genuinely wonder sometimes how much Ford ahead we would be scientifically if we didn’t have over millennium of vicious Christian conquest, and pushing archaic myths onto other people.

[@SirLied]

Far left people use these kinds of arguments all the time as well. "Late stage capitalism will leave us all destitute slaves and our planet destroyed" It's a hallmark of any radical movement. You need a radical and extreme threat to justify the radical and extreme changes they want to enact.

[@karachaffee3343]

I have followed "atheist-to-religion" stories and if you listen carefully, they started out religious and atheism looks more like an interlude or experiment. Very few people with no family background in Christianity suddenly wake up and just know that Jesus is the ONE.

[@yamabushiwarrior996]

Except the ones who were raised in non- religios and atheistic household. Just accept that a person can have a "ah-ha!" ☝️ moment in believing in God just like the host of this video has done in NOT believing in God; both can be true,

[@jeniosk1097]

It's a presumption that very few people with no Christian background become Christian later. I know many cases where that's true. Also, that doesn't disprove Christianity.

[@German-md1xc]

I know people raised in atheist families and lol, they're never becoming religious. There's a reason all religions make sure to indoctrinate children when they're young. If they are allowed to grow and mature first it's extremely unlikely they'll fall for the fantasies.

[@megalodon6789]

​@yamabushiwarrior996 note that they said "very few" and not "no one".

[@angusmcculloch6653]

I love that all of these atheists "don't care" about this conversion so much, we have a ten minute video explaining how much they don't care (with a total time investment of probably a few hours to write, film, edit, etc.) and then 3k comments about how much they really don't care guys. This is why it's gotten harder to take GMS seriously lately. Obviously, you care to some extent. You made a video. Just own that.

[@QU67Reacher6]

"She identifies as a Christian now." My response to this feels so petty. It's just: Okay. Have fun. If only the people she associates with could have the same response to people like me, but that would mean finding another outgroup to blame all their problems on.

[@FreeStyle888.]

She definitely did it for political and financial reasons. Edit: after seeing her interview, she might actually believe it. She makes it sound like she didn’t become a Christian, but she simply realized she was already a Christian because of her values. Also because she believes Christianity is the only way to be Islam.

[@MiladTabasy]

A person who leaves islam for political purposes will accept another religion for political purposes too. The double standard of atheists here is that when it comes to her leaving islam, they associate politics with religion but when it comes to her accepting christianity they separate politics from religion. Such hypocritical atheists!😏

[@NMW567]

imagine becoming a christian because you're afraid of being woke

[@bobcat4519]

I wonder if most atheists aren't so much atheist, but anti-Christian...like those brooding teenagers that are contrarian for the sake of it.

[@bibaolaitan5189]

😂😂😂

[@danikinzstar]

Literally reactionary christianity

[@KaiHenningsen]

@@danikinzstar "... mumble mumble Anti-Christ mumble mumble ..."

[@TryingtoTellYou]

Imagine being so woke, you make Christianity look desirable...

[@mclay8946]

Thanks for your balanced and considered approach to these challenging issues. Keep up the good work😊

[@brokenrecord3523]

"She was never a real Christian." Just wait. This will be said when she decides it's pragmatic to make another change.

[@robokill387]

In this case, it will be justified, though, as her reasons for converting to christianity notably don't include anything about believing in god or accepting christ as her savior, instead it's about politics and attacking muslims.

[@ratamacue0320]

She doesn't seem to be one (a "real Christian") now; nevermind later.

[@cactus2260]

Many political christians go in a line from protestant to catholic because they think it's more western and traditional but since the current pope is ""woke"" by yheir standards they're recently switching to ortodoxy.

[@brokenrecord3523]

@@ratamacue0320 No, of course not. This will be said by the Christians that have now, opportunistically, embraced her.

[@jakerz0]

Another interesting point is how American Christians are so quick to treat select individuals’ conversions to Christianity as an obvious death nell for atheism, but just as quickly dismiss the thousands of deconversions *from* Christianity as irrelevant.

[@IpSyCo]

Because there are an equal number of conversions to Christianity. The current Christian population is 2.3 billion projected to reach 3.3 billion by 2070. If Christian deconversions were relevant this would not be the case.

[@jakerz0]

Citation needed

[@piercejones4355]

@@IpSyCoisn’t Christianity on a decline

[@IpSyCo]

@@piercejones4355 No, the total Christian’s population is expected to grow from 2.3 billion to 3.3 billion by 2070.

[@piercejones4355]

@@IpSyCo ok can you show me the article you found it in I can’t find it

[@EyeLean5280]

A well-known Evangelical recently said in an interview that conservative Christianity has become just as secularized as the larger culture and they haven't even noticed it happening.

[@Maurus200]

I just read the entire article. She became a Christian primarily due to politics and because she didn't like the answer (or lack thereof) to "what is the meaning and purpose to life." I would say of the portion of the article that describes her conversation at leats 90% of it were republican talking points. It seems to me she just could no longer raionalize being a republican and an atheist and needed some other reason to hold on to her conservative values. She presented no actual argument for a god. It was just politics and incredulity.

[@jursamaj]

The truth is that christianity can't actually offer that meaning and purpose either.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

@@jursamajmaybe the shallow performative Christianity which describes muh Murikan relijun doesn’t provide answers or meaning, or a way of life worth living, but traditional liturgical sacramental Christianity (like the kind practiced by tens of millions in Ethiopia, right across the border from Somalia) certainly does.

[@ImSakina_]

@@claesvanoldenphatt9972and what exactly does it preach? slavery and beating up slaves? saying homosexuals must be put to death? etc.

[@lazykbys]

My take is that she became an atheist because she lost faith in Islam, then lost faith in atheism and became a Christian (probably because of the people around her). Some people just can't deal with the lack of certainty that comes of leaving behind religion altogether, and to me her right wing policies look like the sort that require absolute certainty.

[@mcamp9445]

It’s a publicity move to stay relevant and also that sweet sweet Christian grift

[@SuperCatman]

I attended her event at Montana State University last year, not knowing anything about her other than she was a Muslim that converted. her opening was pretty good, talking about what she experienced in Somalia and how she escaped to the Netherlands, then she took a big shift out of nowhere by saying something about how she thought America was about freedom or whatever and now people are too afraid to say what a woman was. I had no idea she was a conservative pundit, and I don't think many others in the audience (mostly honor's college students) did either. really baffling experience, I don't know why the people organizing the event didn't seem to let on to the fact that she wasn't just a Muslim convert but a conservative first and foremost. I remember her asking something like "has anyone here had an opinion on religion that you're too afraid to say" and just about everyone raised their hands. she made some comment about it being bad if this was true even in Montana, but I remember wondering how many of those hands were thinking of opinions on Christianity that they're too afraid to say. I imagine a good few were. overall pretty strange.

[@fortynine3225]

She actually studied on the university and worked for the PvdA in the Netherlands which is sort of a party on the left. She kind of radicalised and was picked up by the VVD which is right party (not rightwing) where also Geert Wilders was a member of both basically being a bit to radical for the VVD. Both said lots of stuff that was very humiliating for muslims(with muslims having non such megaphone access to the media also). He started his own party and she left to the USA. To be clear it was all about anti muslim with hardly any mentioning of atheism from her. I think her anger is very much directed towards those who hurt her when she was young..arranged mariage etc..and she blames islam for that obviously. She basically has a way to high iq for such treatment (she is a politicologist and speaks several languages fluently). She is actually a smart person who was told to shut up and do as been told. It is hard to tell who she realy is. She might as well becoming a christian and a politician later on (she was a member of congress in the Netherlands ) since in the USA most members of congess are christians.

[@YokaiX]

She might've been implying about Islam. False Islamophobia accusations are still common for any valid criticisms or even jokes about it, the same kind of stuff that wouldn't be "Christophobic", if directed at Christianity.

[@yessum15]

​@@fortynine3225Much of her initial story was demonstrated to be false and it seems that a lot of the oppression she referred to simply never happened. I think first and foremost she was an opportunitistic scammer who understood that in the post Sept. 2001 environment there was a thriving market for Orientalism as a cover for Western imperialism. Thus she began a career of pandering to that by reinforcing all the most negative Western stereotypes of that particular religion. In the 2000s the new atheism movement was rife with ostensibly center-left individuals who used a thin pretense of atheism to launder fundamentally Orientalist bias. So she made a home there. However, the movement has developed and is less ethnocentric than it used to be. As a result the audience for her particularly archaic form of Orientalism is increasingly limited to a more right fringe. Thus the sudden courting of the evangelical crowd.

[@zarbins]

It's not that baffling of an experience if you've been paying attention at all the last 8 years. It is obvious you know nothing of Ayaan Hirsi Ali given your take that she is merely a conservative pundit and "conservative first" (which she is not) - but like many disaffected liberals she been pushed further to the right.

[@zarbins]

@@yessum15 "Much of her initial story was demonstrated to be false and it seems that a lot of the oppression she referred to simply never happened." this is not true but good job falling prey to leftist propaganda. I'd ask if you could expand on "ostensibly center-left individuals who used a thin pretense of atheism to launder fundamentally Orientalist bias" as I was heavily involved in the New Atheist movement circa 2000s and don't know what you mean by laundering in "orientalist bias" but would be interested to learn of this act.

[@Raven.flight]

I love how people make a big song and dance about an atheist becoming a theist, but a theist becoming an atheist has to hide due to shame etc.

[@ladyaj7784]

Well, the best among us are the first to admit that people can be atheist for bad reasons.

[@mememaster695]

​@ladyaj7784 What is a bad reason to be an atheist? Do you meant morally bad, or bad as in a flawed argument for atheism? Either way, there isn't really a bad reason to be an atheist. If you don't believe in any religion you are an atheist, the reason for your lack of belief doesn't really matter.

[@robfromvan]

It’s more common for a religious person to become an atheist, this is the normal progression, than for an athiest to become religious. It’s also more common for a left-winger to slowly become more right wing as they age, this is the standard progression, but is less common for a right-winger to become left wing. As such these are much bigger shockers.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

​@@ladyaj7784 There's never a bad reason to become an athiest

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

​@@robfromvan Nah...I'm 60 years old and an.a liberal. When I was younger I was more conservative.

[@georgeguja2475]

My take on this, is that it is a political stunt to obtain more political clout, especially in regards to the right-wing Christian demographic, since many of their views on issues such as Islam, refugees and "wokeism" align with that of Ali. Like Drew said in the video, she is Christan in the more political sense rather than as a genuine expression of personal beliefs that pertain to spirituality or the supernatural. In other words, cynical right-wing grifting.

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

And the funny thing is that the people she's pandering to are the ones that consider such spirituality and beliefs to be called a Christian. It's kinda like the Jordan Peterson thing, where he has to tiptoe around the issue of whether or not he actually believes in a god as depicted by classical theism (nothing indicates he does), so that his fans can project onto him their own beliefs.

[@NidzShah-ps6kr]

Ayan is a smart woman, she was a politician before and she sees Christianity as a political tool. And it's hard to argue with irrational people purely based on facts as they don't care about facts, that's why they reach fanatical levels of religiosity.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

So she’s about as Christian as Trump.

[@fortynine3225]

Maybe she has political ambitions (since most in US congress are christian). If that is not the case than it is a rejection of atheism...being to soft to counter islam which is her main theme. btw looking at the way atheists respond to Ali switching to christianity that is rather irrational. Take a look at yourself first before you judge others dude.

[@aclaylambisabirdman6324]

I love it when people attempt to assign judgment as if you're in another person's heart.

[@johnhoran9840]

They're simply "better" people: more intelligent, more enlightened. If they can't touch it, taste it, handle it, it does not exist.@@aclaylambisabirdman6324

[@zarbins]

Glad to know that I have found the source of rationality, logic, and facts. Thank you @NidzShah-ps6kr

[@quantumslime7265]

Anyone who unironically uses the term "woke" nowadays (when they're describing things they just dont like) has already lost my ear. No one I've ever seen use that term (again nowadays) will think through what it actually even means.

[@Salikino]

I call myself woke and see it as a good thing. If someone called me woke, no matter how negatively they say it, I will take i as a complement.

[@quantumslime7265]

@@Salikino Oh yeah. I'm talking about the appropriated "definition" that conservatives in the modern US political system use. I'd take it as a compliment too but for me the buzzword of "woke" used by conservatives is just a litmus test for irrationality.

[@littleking1994two]

That's just not true. Over and over again they will refer to it as cultural marxism that came out of the thinking of the frankfurt school of philosophy

[@Salikino]

@@quantumslime7265 Agreed

[@quantumslime7265]

@@littleking1994two Yup. Thats just as big of a red flag for me as the term "woke" (in the conservative sense) is.

[@finnhoydal2028]

As a previous atheist, then later an evangelical Christian for decades, my skeptical mindset finally got the best of me and steered me back to atheism once again. I doubt that she will find much room for healthy, wholesome skepticism in her new "faith".

[@seekthevisceral]

Hell of a ride, isn't it? :)

[@Salikino]

@@seekthevisceralThat’s life for you!

[@russ4moose]

That's an interesting path. I've known a few Christians who became atheists in their 30s. It was always an intellectual thing. I've also known quite a few people who have converted to Christianity as adults. Those people tended to be looking for a life change. Christianity is very misunderstood, in my opinion. Many people think being a religious Christian is adhering to a set of negative rules (Don't do this. Don't do that). That's not the message, though. The point of the Gospel is that God isn't judging people on the impossible to follow rules, he's making a way for flawed people to find meaning, purpose, and forgiveness despite their flaws. That's why atheism is for the perfect moral people and Christianity is for the rest of us.

[@finnhoydal2028]

@@seekthevisceral Yes, the worlds collided numerious times!

[@chaiman3761]

In reality she become right wing

[@smolderingtitan]

I never thought of Ayaan Hirsi Ali as a critic of all religions or as an "atheist" necessarily. I thought of her as a critic of Islam only so I'm not surprised by this and always felt that the right wing would be a good home for her.

[@GeeEee75]

I mean, it's not as if Islam occupies the left wing. I don't see how this move demonstrates that her allegiance has shifted from the left to the right.

[@jcappleman]

She’s moving to the audience that’s easiest to grift 😂

[@loganleatherman7647]

It’s hard to be mad at the people who make these decisions considering how easy this base is to grift. As long as you get in with the right people, like FOX or Daily Wire or some other outrage bait outlet, it’s easy money from there

[@im-not-alone5587]

''The others are dishonest gold diggers dummies. While WE are the smart rational ones that care for the truth.'' Funny

[@pansepot1490]

⁠@@im-not-alone5587 yeah, you get the point. Smart cookie. =)

[@jacksonelmore6227]

Based

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

​@@im-not-alone5587 Considering the person in question is dishonestly calling themselves religious so they can gain an audience and make money off of religious people, I think OP's got more of a point than your incredulous sarcasm implies you think they had.

[@HumblyQuestioning]

My translation of her drivel: "I'm scared of some objectively harmful religious ideologies and want to align with a religious ideology I perceive as pushing back against the harmful ideologies because I can't figure out how to establish a non-religious ideology that pushes back against all of the religious ones. Basically, I picked the least evil ideology of the evil ideologies." She's lame and I never understood her appeal.

[@kamion53]

quote:....👽" I picked the least evil ideology of the evil ideologies."👽 Why the heck then choose Christianity, Buddish ( although there are obnoxious fanatic Buddist ) seems much less harmfull to me. Maybe she should establish hypocritism as a religion or ideology.

[@lyndiss.2017]

​@@kamion53honestly? As someone who studies Buddhist philosophy after quitting the Buddhist religion (funnily, the one last push for me going "wokay! Bye-bye!" Is the Buddha's _own_ words in his Sutta about "verifying what is said to you." Thanks for supporting my atheism better than some of your adherents, B-man)--as an ideology it sits really low on the harmful ladder. It can even be completely atheistic and secular, and easily naturalized (as in, compatible with science). You kinda have to first set out an intention to be a dick to really dickerize Buddhism into fanaticism-but then again, you’d already violated Right Intention of the Noble Eightfold Paths as well as going against Brahmanvihara qualities like "empathetic joy" and "equanimity." I don't think there is a Sutta to justify most violence typical of religious fanaticism, but if there is one, I'd love to know about it so I can go "mm mm, bad" and critique it. The freedom of approaching things philosophically rather than as a religion, aye?

[@catsmom129]

@@kamion53 I’m guessing her logic is, Buddhists aren’t striking back against Islam the way Christians are. Or something like that.

[@laffecaffelott]

to be fair to her, finding left leaning orgs that want to combat islam is not an easy task nowadays so she chose to align herself with the only ppl she sees willing to help her

[@jimmyhirr5773]

​@@catsmom129I guess she's never heard of Myanmar.

[@BlackSpineHorror]

“It seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you think it’s useful and not because you think it’s true.” -Bertrand Russell

[@okktok]

There is no objective truth my friend

[@MG-js8bn]

Espousing a belief that is not really held happens a lot. You could say Ali is being nominally honest when she gives her reasons for completely throwing in with the Christian right, which is essentially what she is doing. officially. She just decided to tie the knot publicly.

[@ElusiveEel]

@@okktok Do you think it is objectively true, that there is no objective truth? You could say you take that truth alone as axiomatic, but I hold as axiomatic the fact that we have an external and consistent reality, which I take to be objective truth.

[@shrevem]

More credibility to the idea that coalescing around a lack of belief doesn’t make a lot of sense. I don’t think I ever would have considered her and myself as part of the same movement.

[@christophercheck1590]

Yeah< I always saw her as more anti-Islam rather than anti-religion-in-general.

[@thedaijal2935]

​​@@christophercheck1590She came from a fundamentalist Islamic background, and was severely vaginally mutilated. Of course she's going to save most of her ammo on Islam, just like atheists harmed by Xtianity are gonna do the same with that religion. This really shouldn't surprise anyone.

[@Grim_Beard]

02:25 "woke ideology" is what enables Ayaan Hirsi Ali to have a voice, rather than being treated as the property of a man.

[@zarbins]

You are 100% incorrect. Woke ideology has nothing to do with liberalism or freedom of speech. In fact many woke tenants go against liberal values and free expression as has been evidenced repeatedly the last 8 years.

[@norml.hugh-mann]

For the right price, those with broken moral compasses dont mind lying and harming society as long as the money keeps coming in.

[@Theactivepsychos]

“Reality is not easy, but all this make-believe doesn't make it easier.” Ayaan Hirsi Ali

[@valerianmandrake]

She must be trolling us now.

[@Marconius6]

Wow, a PragerU conservative is now a Christian, I am absolutely SHOCKED to my bones...

[@InciniumVGC]

Dennis Prager is Jewish...

[@EBDavis111]

@@InciniumVGC He's also a neo-nazi. What's your point?

[@rowdyriemer]

There is something of a problem with reading too much about someone's political beliefs when they say they're an atheist. Ayn Rand was an atheist, and she was very much NOT progressive or left leaning in any way.

[@JJMcCullough]

She was an atheist in a strange way it’s hard to imagine a conservative being today. She explicitly said she found Christ a pathetic figure symbolizing weakness and submissiveness, and that was antithetical to her whole “the strong and mighty deserve to run everything” philosophy.

[@catsmom129]

She was also pro-choice, anti-monogamy, and hated Ronald Reagan. Conservatives like her economic views, but basically ignore everything else she said.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

Religious = Political Conservative is an equation that can be made in the USA of today but it’s not something that can be automatically generalised to other times and places.

[@bibaolaitan5189]

I am also atheist and very conservative. There is no correlation btw these two.

[@JJMcCullough]

@@bibaolaitan5189 There is in the sense of being conservative means being in a political coalition with a lot of very religious Christians whose states political agenda claims to be motivated by Christianity.

[@mariamelshanwany8149]

I'm an ex muslim and now an atheist, and I'm just like you. I prefer to deal with a Muslim who shares the same values as me than deal with an atheist who is against the rights of minorities. The recent events that happens in Gaza have open my eyes to the fact that not everyone who leaves religion necessary becomes a humanist ( after seeing a lot of comments from ex Muslims who support Israeli terrorism against innocent people, I understood that) I love Ayaan's criticism of Islam and her fighting against FGM, specially since it happened to me and I'm in a society that completely support it so i was happy to have a woman representing me but i disagree with her political views

[@kamion53]

I remember her for her critiscism of Islam as being valuable, but beyond that also as an obnoxious quarrelsome person, who wasn't very much missed in the Netherlands when she left for the States.

[@KingOfBboys]

I think the same can be said about Sam Harris' take on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. What started as a valid and necessary criticism of Islam has devolved into plain old islamophobia. If you gave these two, or any moral philosopher the full context of the conflict but without mentioning what religion or what ethnicity any of the people involved belong to, you'd struggle to find anyone who would consider the Israeli response as the morally sound thing to do. What Israel is doing is disgusting and seeing people I used to held to a higher moral standard fail to condemn it as such is very dissapointing. I'm an atheist and I've been marching in protests sorrounded by muslims, jews and christians alike. This is not a religious conflict at all, yet the other side of the aisle seem to love mislabeling it as such.

[@soldout9625]

I do relate to what you say as an ex muslim and now atheist myself. People often assume that because I left Islam then it would be evident for m to hate anything Islam related; this is NOT true, and I find that it deems my decision to leave Islam as emotional, again NOT true, I only left Islam because the whole concept of monotheistic religions doesn't seem rational to me, and this reasoning would prevent me from joining any other religion. Emotional fueled decision to leave Islam will lead you to support the genocide of Palestinians.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

It looks like Ayaan is joining Christianity as a shield against Islam which she deeply resents and fears.

[@Richdragon4]

I offer my condolences for your vagina. That poor organ, brutally mutilated. It is one of the worst things humans do to each other based on religion. I hope you are doing good now.

[@senorbb2150]

The Prager U appearance is a dead giveaway. Let's face it folks, US Christianity is evolving into less of "Whatever Church of Catholicism/Protestant/Evangelical/LDS, etc." and more into "The Church of Fox News/The Wire/Newsmax/Prager U".

[@zachfinemusic]

Secularism has been extremely satisfying for me despite not having superficial answers to existential questions that rob me of a sense of self and identity. I’m sorry she hasn’t felt that and therefore adopts Iron Age barbarism in its place.

[@Stolen_entertainment]

Yeah lets adopt modernity and 21st century barbarism instead and lets see how long that'll last ah? Btw what is barbaric about loving ones enemy and caring for the poor, and self-sacrifice tho 💀?

[@rudrapratapsingh735]

Secularism is just a fraud version of Christianity, that's why I am converting rather than becoming a Secular Atheist from Hinduism.

[@maleldil1]

@@Stolen_entertainment, try reading the rest of the Bible, Quran, etc. You'll find plenty of barbarism there. The core ideas of Jesus are fine (though far from ground breaking), but that's not what most Christians are applying on their day to day.

[@htpkey]

​@@Stolen_entertainment Are you going to pretend that Christianity only has "good" teachings? Will you acknowledge the immoral teachings too?

[@nick281972]

I can never take anyone seriously when they use the term "woke" as a pejorative.

[@InciniumVGC]

I can never take anyone who thinks cultural Marxism is a good thing seriously.

[@lucyferos205]

​@@InciniumVGCAre you even aware that "cultural Marxism" is just a term for "cultural Bolshevism," used by WW2 German propaganda to smear Jews? Do you even know what "woke" originally meant while we're at it?

[@RawNoLimits]

@@InciniumVGC what the hell does this even have to do with what OP said?

[@Hirnlego999]

@@InciniumVGC "cultural Marxism is a good thing seriously." Sure, corporations are Marxists... this is one of the dumbest conspiracy theories

[@channeldoesnotexist]

Clown ass take. Nothing good about "wokism" when all they do is insist people change thoughts and language under the threat of being doxxed and having your career destroyed for difference of opinion. Not to mention the narrative they push on the issues they obsess over are as fictitious as what the christians push about their magic man in the sky. Their whole worldview is predicated upon victimhood. In what world can any sane person not see this as a negative thing? Definitely not the world you're living in pal.

[@manuelplatino1926]

When a newly converted christian mentions the word "woke" so much, the grifting alarm should sound immediately in our heads

[@sdeepj]

I remember buying End of Faith by Sam Harris, in the began enjoying the book, but when he supported torture of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, all I could do was just cringe. I see myself more aligned with a religious person who agrees with Amnesty International than an atheist who doesn’t.

[@OutsideSometimes]

Harris puts on a facade of reasonableness which often sails disingenuously into some pretty wild defenses for indefensible/ inhumane actions. His arguments are ultimately unsound and not very well put together. I sort of found this in a lot of the 2010s “new atheists” who kinda leaned into right wing western exceptionalism, and even casually dip into actual racism and Ayaan fit that bill pre “conversion” as well. Being on Prager U should be a red flag for anyone, Christian or No. Anyone who subscribes to basic reason wouldn’t shill for those people. The “anti-woke” stuff is ridiculous too. And is used flexibly to describe any social change these people don’t like at the time. I say all this as someone who went to see Dawkins in person and had multiple books by the horsemen. They always had a somewhat twisted world view that I don’t appreciate and it doesn’t surprise me that one of their peers is saying and doing all of what she is.

[@yzettasmith4194]

Sam Harris is now officially on my shit list. I agree with you on aligning with the religious if they are anti-torture.

[@shaygranger4866]

Seems as though u hating an aethiest for arriving at the same destination a Christian would...

[@mayhu3282]

I wonder what makes you believe that the rest of atheists (SH excluded) would be more prone to support torture than Christians...

[@SomeGuyNamedTodd]

She's always been too right-wing for my taste. She often regurgitated far-right talking points that take away from her lived experience with religion that (I think) has far more value.

[@MzShonuff123]

Yeah I was today years old when I found out she was married to Niall Ferguson which explains some things

[@johnpower29]

​@@MzShonuff123Indeed. Mr 'Protestant work ethic' himself.

[@Peteralleyman]

She started her political career in the Netherlands in a left wing party and switched later on to right wing. Not ultra left or ultra right wing, by the way. And christianity is still to be preferred over her islamic roots. At least christianity only hurts women emotionally, not physically.

[@brandonkennedy4160]

How does brainwashing people into being terrified of eternal misery unless they follow these very specific, and sometimes idiotic rules have positive value?

[@Rotaretilbo]

@@Peteralleyman *glances at religiously-motivated abortion bans across the United States* Sure, only emotionally. Jokes aside, I think the big difference between fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Christianity when it comes to the treatment of women is that the former is doing what they want, whereas the latter largely exists within systems where they are constrained from doing what they want. In the US in particular, politically-motivated evangelicals frequently talk about God's law and the notion that morality comes from God, and therefore law should be based on God, etc etc. There are plenty of evangelicals who *want* a Christian equivalent of Sharia law in the US. They're just less able to do so in a pseudo-democracy like the US than they would be able to in an absolute monarchy like Saudi Arabia.

[@andrewstrongman305]

An atheist is a person who rejects religion due to lack of or conflicting evidence, not someone who rejects it because they don't like it.

[@StarrysLostandFound]

Solid response video whether scripted or not. Keep up the great job.

[@Sxcheschka]

Wait, this was unscripted? Absolutely amazing video Drew!

[@4legdfishman]

I loved her first book. I was glued to every page and could not put it down until I was done. Over the years, she faded into the back of our minds. This was most likely the same across the globe. This was a problem for her but mostly, her wallet. Stating that she is now a Christian, will help her wallet. It reminds me of a person who once created a anti-rightwing website based on outrageously false claims of the right. When liberals, progressives and the entire left didn't fall for his BS, he switched to creating a anti-leftwing platform creating fake stories and outrageous claims. His income increased from nearly nothing to $30,000.00 a month. Because he now knows the right will fall for anything. She knows this too.

[@virginiarogers9391]

Do you know the name of the person and/or website?

[@valerianmandrake]

Sounds like a politician, getting rich by lying seems to be their forte.

[@4legdfishman]

@virginiarogers9391 No. It's been about 8 years since I read the article, and I don't remember who it was. Sorry.

[@solis44]

I may be mistaken but I think Candice Owens did something similar.

[@aclaylambisabirdman6324]

Oh, I love this one; this actually says more about you than her.

[@Egooist.]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: _"Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice."_ Also Ayaan: _"We can't fight woke ideology if we can't defend the civilisation that it is determined to destroy."_ (2:30)

[@zarbins]

These are not mutually exclusive ideas and the point you are attempting to make does not land. Try harder or perhaps, in your parlance, do better.

[@Egooist.]

@@zarbins It does land, when you consider that _"woke ideology"_ is just a narrative of the right-wing to propagate their own intolerance & wilful ignorance.

[@Pushing_Pixels]

@@zarbins You can't "fight woke ideology" without tolerating intolerance, at the very least, or in most cases engaging in it directly.

[@zarbins]

@@Pushing_Pixels I'm not sure I follow. Many people are intolerant from across the political spectrum so perhaps there does need to be some capacity for tolerating intolerance but I don't think that is what you're getting at.

[@maxsalmon4980]

She invokes 'woke ideology' which usually means what she's saying is not worth time exploring in detail. When she's ready to make an actual complaint or argument, that can be re-examined.

[@AkaliciousZA]

Ali hated Radical Islam but it never occurred to me that she had rational arguments for not believing in God, she was just disgusted by Islam.

[@stellehonig1541]

new background lighting looks really clean. loving the higher saturation and contrast!

[@YTWgamer]

This sort of flipflopping of ideologies and labels happens constantly and with people on every side of any polarizing position. I don't ever see it as significant, as arguments and reason stand on their own, not just because someone I enjoy watching is espousing these things. It's a shame to give more fodder to the extremists, but at the end of the day there was no shortage of that anyway.

[@PokeNebula]

Would you really characterize a religious conversion as “flipflopping of ideologies and labels”? Makes it sound insignificant. Someone changing their mind between biden or trump, between hobbes or locke, between lenin or mao, none of those decisions implicates the fate of your immortal soul.

[@Where_is_Waldo]

Also, secularism is usually scary and full of unkonwns to people who were raised with religion deeply ingrained into them. People have gone years, perhaps even decades in secular life before realizing that they were still holding onto perceptions they came to only for religious reasons (or perceptions they came to because of personal bias which were then reinforced only by religion or traditional culture tied to religion). It is often difficult to transition from assurance of an eternal reward to seeking one's own meaning, purpose and motivation in life. For this last problem, I'd like to share my perspective in case it can help anyone, if you've ever found someone other than yourself in this world who you truly love then I'm confident you can attest to the following: If you love the joy and wellbeing of someone other than yourself, you are experiencing paradise. That is the best, most fulfilling feeling a person can experience and if there is any afterlife at all then you can also experience paradise in that afterlife the same way it is experienced in this life. There is no gatekeeper, mortal or eternal, who can keep you from paradise. This does not mean you will not suffer, suffering is unavoidable, but you can experience paradise even while suffering, I've seen it and I've experienced it. I've said all this before but it just occurred to me to say: Just think how terrible god would have to be for any contradiction of this to be true.

[@monus782]

It’s been four years since I deconverted from the hardline and fundamentalist interpretation of Catholicism I followed for several years and that deconversion was nothing short of traumatic (but also liberating) for me, before although I was miserable in many ways at least I had a good idea of what my life was supposed to be for and what I had to do but when that faith with prepackaged answers finally fell apart I was so depressed that I nearly tried to end it all because it felt like I had nothing left to live for. So you’re right, removing the religious framework of living can be a very scary experience for many and in some ways I feel like leaving Christianity as a whole cost me nearly everything I had (and I’m still recovering from the time I was really aimless in life) but I felt I had no choice but to keep going for the sake of my integrity and I don’t regret it, however those experiences are also why I feel sorry for many of the people I left behind (alongside many people still in in other fundamentalist movements) because if they end up leaving as well they may end up losing more than I did but this woman in particular comes across as a grifter like so many others on the right so I don’t extend that sympathy to her. Therapy has really helped so far and so many other apostates may need it and I started taking meds because my depression was getting out of hand more recently and I feel like I’ve been given a second chance at life now, I’ve come to realize that it’s the small things that matter the most (in contrast to these grand cosmic narratives so many of us were raised with) so many of the things you mentioned resonate with me.

[@zarbins]

Your definition of paradise sounds more like a joyful or meaningful experience, or perhaps fulfillment of an obligation or duty, and I attest that you are worshiping at the altar of 'the other" if that is where you derive transcendent meaningful experience. A good cure for solipsism and selfishness for sure, but pales in comparison to religious notions of paradise. I would add that secularism is scary for me and I wasn't raised with religion deeply ingrained within me at all. Nietzsche's thoughts on the Death of God are apropos. The problem of evil is not solved by worshiping the other and if that is taken to extremes it can damage the self (and even the other you are worshiping.) I would recommend a good book, "The Righteous Mind" by Jonathan Haidt.

[@Where_is_Waldo]

@@zarbins First of all, I don't worship anything or anyone and I can't help getting the impression that religious thinking was ingrained in you if you truly insist that's what my perspective is, even if it was not your family but the world we live in that ingrained that perspective in you. Secondly, why bring up the problem of evil? I didn't bring up any reference to the problem of evil in my initial comment. From a non-religious perspective, the problem of evil is just that I don't like evil but it still exists. The reason the problem of evil is brought up from a secular perspective when arguing against religion is that a god who allows evil is either not all good or not all powerful. I realize that not everyone can realistically find someone else who's joy they genuinely love and that doesn't mean they can't have the ultimate joy and fulfillment of life, it is equally valid to love your own joy and this should be prioritized alongside loving the joy of others one loves. In fact, loving the joy of others is ultimately for the purpose of providing joy to one's self, there is no motivation that isn't self centered - if something motivates a person then the center of that motivation has to be a benefit to one's self but if one finds another person who's joy they love (which is the only definition I can assign to actually loving someone) their joy will inevitably cause joy in the one who loves them and, regardless of how you explain it (perhaps by the fact that it is rarer than love for one's self) the joy that comes from this is special and, to me, more meaningful than just loving myself and no one else. It's not a matter of duty, I don't hold myself to a requirement to love others, I just respond to my love for others by enjoying their joy. Speaking from my own personal experience, as I did in my initial comment, there is no joy a person can experience which exceeds the joy of loving someone else's joy even if loving one's own joy selfishly is equal to it. I'd also like to make another statement for the sake of clarity: I don't consider selfishness and self centeredness to be the same thing, nor is selfishness always evil. Every motivation is self centered or it wouldn't be a motivation. Even if I love someone so that my simple awareness of their joy makes me happy without any need to be owed anything, or credited with their joy (by others or myself) to want to make them happy, my motivation to make them happy is centered around MY joy. There's no escaping that, but you can see how this motivation differs from making the entire motivation only involve myself. If I do kind things for others only to be owed something or to be praised, that certainly provides me a source of joy but it's not as meaningful as genuinely loving someone else's joy and such motivation could just as easily motivate me to use others as a scapegoat or take credit for the work of others. Now, I'd like to emphasize also that selfishness is not always harmful. Just as the easiest example (but certainly not the only example): If someone lives alone in the wilderness, far from anyone else so there is no perceptible affect their actions could have on others, everything they do (other than kindness they show to other life forms of course) is just for there self without consideration of others. These selfish motives are not wrong, they're not intended harm at all. One can certainly argue that morality is subjective but I would argue that morality can be objectively defined and what is subjective is whether it is good to be moral. Granted there is a grey area as to where to draw a certain line in my definition of morality, amorality and immorality but the concepts seem objective to me. If you ask me, morality is the motivation to cause good in the life of anyone (human or not), immorality is prioritization of one's own relatively trivial benefit over any aversion to causing relatively severe harm to anyone else (this is where the grey area comes in - what is trivial and what is severe is somewhat ambiguous) and amorality is following instincts without a concept of harming others. Lastly, I'd like to ask you what paradise could possibly be to you if not perfectly explained as the most joyful and most meaningful experience one could have. How do you define paradise in the context of a religious notion?

[@zarbins]

@@Where_is_Waldo Your definition of paradise is, "If you love the joy and wellbeing of someone other than yourself," perhaps I should have said it 'sounds' like you worship at the altar of the other. You claim to worship no one but are dependent on the joy and well-being of another to grant you an experience of love, and thus welcome you through the gates of paradise as if they were a Beatrice from Dante's divine comedy. I mentioned the problem of evil somewhat tongue and cheek in reference to, "just think how terrible god would have to be for any contradiction of this to be true." How could an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God allow for another 'terrible' definition of paradise to exist... I'm being a bit playful here, but would like to reconcile this point with you because if I had to define what God is it would be something like "Love" or the capacity to love, or the transcendent experience of love, so perhaps we are not too far apart from each other and you are merely giving a specific example of love when found/experienced through the joy and wellbeing of another. Noted your points for clarity. Your definition of morality seems somewhat Utilitarian? A calculus between net benefit of goodness to another vs. possible selfish motivation? How I define paradise in religious terms is irrelevant but you likely known the standard definitions, "In Christianity, paradise is pictured as a place of rest and refreshment in which the righteous dead enjoy the glorious presence of God. In its view of the heavenly afterlife, Islam views paradise as a pleasure garden in which the blessed experience the greatest sensual and spiritual happiness. etc.." I'm not worth such a lengthy reply but appreciate the engagement. Have a good week my friend, and I hope you find Waldo.

[@Where_is_Waldo]

@@zarbins I am not "dependent on the joy and well-being of another to grant (me) an experience of love". My love does not depend on another's joy or wellbeing, my love for another person means that I love their joy and wellbeing or, to put it another way, I hate the displeasure and detriment of those I love. What I said is that rejoicing in the joy and wellbeing of those I love IS paradise - it is what defines the greatest experience. If their is an eternal paradise after death, the ultimate joy and the ultimate fulfillment is what would make it paradise. There is no gatekeeper, in this life or any other, that can take away paradise so long as your mind exists and someone you love is happy. When I said "Just think how terrible god would have to be for any contradiction of this to be true." I was referring to a contradiction of the notion that paradise is defined by the experience of an ultimate joy and ultimate fulfillment that is not dependent on following any rule or rules that someone made for us to follow even if the only rule is to believe in and revere a god and/or a contradiction of the notion that paradise can be experienced in this, the only life we know we have and/or a contradiction of the notion that everyone who truly loves someone can attain the greatest joy and fulfillment through their love. My definition of morality is a matter of motivation. Your motivation is what defines who you are in any given scenario. You can not, in any sense, decide with absolute certainty what the net helpful or harmful results of your efforts will be but, as much as you can decide anything, you can decide what you want to do. It can be hard to judge what others want to do so I try to hesitate to judge others but people often make their intentions reasonably clear. Even so, I try to always second guess myself on any judgements I make about others since I know I can never be absolutely certain. For me, judging my perception of the morality of others is mostly a matter of avoiding people who will try to cause harm and judging my own morality is a matter of managing my instincts to best suit the central motivations that define who I am.

[@damejanea.macdonald2371]

I have to congratulate the person who chose the subtitle of the article. I could immediately understand the gist of it by reading "atheism can't equip us for civilizational war."

[@stevensines7026]

It reminds me of the welcome my family and I received from a Church of Christ congregation. They were not quite as fraternal as one might expect, despite us having already been baptized at other churches individually. However, once we ALL swam in THEIR pool, they greeted us with open arms... for a while. Apparently some thought our baptism as a family was a "miracle", when we just viewed it as minor inconvenience to facilitate acceptance, since it was obviously unChristian for them to dismiss our previous profession of faith and baptism. The difference in their regard for us at each stage of our attendance was obvious to all of us, and later resulted in us leaving it and not joining another since.

[@iamalmostanonymous]

Lol. Same experience going from Church of Christ to Baptist. I was also baptized as an infant in an Episcopalian church. So I should be good 😂

[@stevensines7026]

@@iamalmostanonymous What a coincidence, so was I, though my subsequent trip through my religious life was opposite.

[@beproudskeptic1522]

Tired of them picking on my wokeness.....my grandmother couldn't vote until it took women to fight for it, for which I will be forever grateful.

[@codyhanson1344]

Maybe people should start picking on their sleepiness

[@vichraev.5386]

People easily forget these things. We have a 40-hour work week, weekends, vacation, maternity leave, and so many other "rights" (a term I use loosely because we've seen how easily they can be taken away again), because people fought and died for them.

[@Henry-yh6vv]

@@vichraev.5386 Is that stuff "woke"? We can point to various legal rights that we would see as an improvement; does that mean that something like "defunding the police" has to be an improvement? Just because some people on the left-wing think they are "awake" doesn't mean they really are.

[@KJCurry]

@@Henry-yh6vv hindsight is 20/20. perhaps there will be some kind of necessary police reform soon and 100 years after that it will be celebrated. Things like the 40 hour work week, maternity leave, and abolition were all absolutely unthinkable at some point in history. One may even call it "woke" 😉

[@Henry-yh6vv]

@@KJCurry Possibly, but alternatively it could just backfire and result in higher crime rates which may have a disproportionate impact on minorities. For some reason, the "woke" don't seem interested in that kind of harm to minority communities.

[@CrazyFarseer]

Good video! I haven’t heard of the use of Christianity as a purely political label quite so clearly before. This is a good case study for it.

[@katherineg9396]

Trump was slightly more subtle. 😂

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

She once believed in a religion based on the mythology of the ancient Hebrews. She now believes in a religion based on the mythology of the ancient Hebrews. At least now she is on the same payroll as Jordan Peterson, Douglas Murray and Tom Holland. She will be able to retire comfortably.

[@supermario69kraftgami23]

1:13 Although giving women the right to vote is quite secular and humanist in itself, the shift in traditional Christian gender roles could not tolerably happen at the time without weaponizing Christian temperance with the women's suffrage movement to enact the prohibition.

[@12q8]

She left fundamentalist Islam, but kept the fundamentalism along for the journey.

[@tiryaclearsong421]

I remember reading her first book and somewhere along the way I realized that her upbringing was seemingly so severe and fundamentalist that it seemed like she could only get so close to being progressive before her trauma kicked in and she went back to safer conservatism. She seemed entirely unaware of this or being traumatized and just kept insisting that she is awesome and empowered anyways. Which I can understand, I just feel kind of sad for her. It's just generational trauma that she doesn't know how to get out of and she seems to push away resources.

[@thezu9250]

@@tiryaclearsong421 Except she was lying about her upbringing.

[@tigerlily2941]

I must say I highly enjoy your non scripted videos. There is just something so natural about them they seem to resonate more

[@EpicgamerwinXD6669]

I do think western countries in general have a problem when it comes to portraying Islam in general, and especially in media. The fact that every Muslim woman in TV and movies needs to wear a hijab is outright offensive in my opinion. I actually have Muslim family, and both my mom and aunt are just as frustrated by the continued perpetuation of that particular stereotype.

[@thelakeman2538]

Yes and there are many cultural differences among muslims too, many muslim communities simply wear their ethnic clothing rather than any islamic attire. Though at the same time an increasing number of them do wear islamic clothing like hijab/niqab or skull caps probably due to a variety of factors like islamic organisations proselytizing among muslims, political and radical islam, influence from Gulf countries, etc.

[@chinkasuyaro8983]

I thank you for the information.

[@EpicgamerwinXD6669]

@@thelakeman2538 true, but it should also be noted some of the most secular Muslim nations, like Bosnia and Azerbaijan, barely any women wear a hijab there.

[@Quetzietse]

'The fact that every Muslim woman in TV and movies needs to wear a hijab' That is not a fact at all. No idea where you got this idea. 'the continued perpetuation of that particular stereotype' I walked through my neighbourhood today. Lots of Muslims around. I can tell not just because of the ethnicity, but also because of all the headscarves. They are common. Not every young girl, but 90% of older women do. If something is true, it is not 'an offensive stereotype.' You are making a starwman where 'people' think '*every* muslima' wears a headscarf, but these 'people' do not exist. They are all in your head, andthey are there so you have an excuse to feel like a victim and get angry. Actual people know that not every muslima does this, but a large group of them do. We can all go outside and see the headscarves ourselves. So it is not a harmfull or offensive, it is accurate. It is also just a factor of narratives being less complex than real life by definition, so slight stereotyping is normal and can't be avoided. If you really have never seen a Muslima in fiction without a headscarf you might want to broaden your horizon. and consume higher tier fiction.

[@thelakeman2538]

@@EpicgamerwinXD6669 that is true, but places like Bosnia, Albania, and Azerbaijan have a different history, I was thinking more about various South and South-East Asian muslim communities when I was making that comment, ultimately it's the history and political circumstances that seem to decide these things rather than anything innate to a religion imo. Veiling women was a thing in plenty of non-islamic societies too (Joseon Korea, many Christian sects, North-Indian Hindus, etc) but many of those peoples don't anymore, it's ultimately just the political and historical circumstances. Another interesting thing speaking of TV shows and movies is that a lot of shows from even very conservative islamic societies don't seem to depict all muslim women veiled, my mother is obsessed with Pakistani urdu soap operas and I've observed that many characters in them do not wear any sort of veil or islamic clothing, she also watches turkish soap operas and there of course given Turkey's history of "westernization" they don't show many veiled woman either.

[@jklappenbach]

I just feel sorry for her. If she feels that "woke" ideology is something to be vilified and met with hostility, she's simply lost.

[@Nemo12417]

She built her career on railing against how horribly evil Islam was. Then for Prager University, she declared that "wokeness" was as bad as Islam. Yeah......

[@mikejankowski6321]

I agree with your point, but I don’t bother feeling sorry.

[@jacksonelmore6227]

Based

[@cp37373]

Lmfao wokeness is pathetic. She may be lost, but you obviously are as well.

[@creativerealms]

The way she talks about the woke reminds me of the very rhetoric she fight against when it comes to Islam.

[@chrismorin7161]

The money on the religious/conservative side is huge. Money makes the world go around. Maybe she wants a nice apartment in New York.

[@gordonv.cormack3216]

I really appreciated your comments. I guess a YT comment is not the best place to pour out my soul, but where I was raised, Christians were "good" in that they cared about social inequality. I happened to be in Saskatchewan, where a Baptist minister became premier and introduced the first-ever social medical insurance scheme, dubbed "medicare." My mother, who was a parigon of tolerance, threw an anti-medicare campaigner out on his ear. I had never experienced her anger before. Yet she professes to be a Christian. I got over the Christianity thing, but she was a good person, and so was Tommy Douglas, the person to introduced Medicare to North America.

[@bas919]

I remember Penn Jillette doing a skit about being converted to a believer, but then ends up saying something like how much money and fame he could've had if that were true. 😂 I think it was either in an episode of "B*ullshit!" or "Big Think".

[@necromanticer169]

Treating atheism as a political position is going to give you the wrong impression of a lot of people. That's a way too make yourself more comfortable with your chosen group, assuming they're like yourself, but the reality is more varied than you give credit to and stereotypes like that will only make advancing a common cause more difficult.

[@pearcat08]

I may be wrong, but I think what he is referring to when he describes atheism as a political position isn't the politics of atheists as a whole or any particular atheist. It is the assumptions that religious people make about an individuals politics when they identify themselves as an atheist. Religious people associate being an atheist with being politically liberal/left, whether that is accurate or not. The issue (in America at least) is that being an atheist is read as being liberal by the majority of people, and is therefore treated as synonymous with being so. TLDR: Atheism is a political position because of the assumptions non-atheists make about the politics of atheists, not because the atheists themselves think it is a political stance.

[@necromanticer169]

​@pearcat08 watch again starting at 7:11. He's directly starting that he views it as a political position to the extent that he intentionally chooses the label as a political act. At the end of the day we all agree that labels are not definitions, but that's my point. Taking the label atheist and using that as a political indicator is just as silly as assigning political positions to theists. That's stereotyping and gets in the way of understanding each other. Atheism isn't political unless you make it so and doing that by default defaults you to wrong conclusions much of the time.

[@adbrouwer]

Interesting analysis, Drew. If you wouldn't have mentioned this was unscripted, I think I wouldn't have noticed. Keep up the good work 👍🏻👍🏻

[@ravensroost9776]

I remember Ayaan well from her time living in the Netherlands and being a Dutch politician, this woman is sickening.

[@greatexpectations6577]

Real?

[@Keyboardje]

@@greatexpectations6577 Very real. She fled our country in shame after it became clear she had LIED about almost everything when entering the Netherlands, and kept on lying in order to play the victim she claimed to be.

[@CMVMic]

Ali's transition from Islam to atheism, and ultimately to Christianity, was influenced by a few factors. She initially rejected Islam in response to the extremism exemplified by the 9/11 attacks, finding solace in atheism after being influenced by Bertrand Russell's critiques of religion. Her experience with the Muslim Brotherhood, which espoused a strict form of Islam, contributed to her disillusionment. However, she later found atheism inadequate in providing spiritual solace and a sense of life's purpose, leading her to embrace Christianity. She sees Christianity as offering a unifying narrative essential for upholding the values and traditions of Western civilization, contrasting it with the limitations of secular approaches in addressing global and existential challenges. She says and I quote "we can’t fight off these formidable forces unless we can answer the question: what is it that unites us? The response that “God is dead!” seems insufficient." She proves the Bertrand was right. her conversion was due to fear. She then said "I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable - indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?" That means she believed atheism entailed nihilism which is false. She assumes meaning and purpose must be top down, instead of bottom up. So, it's really the moral case for God that motivated her transition. She says "We can’t withstand China, Russia and Iran if we can’t explain to our populations why it matters that we do. We can’t fight woke ideology if we can’t defend the civilization that it is determined to destroy. And we can’t counter Islamism with purely secular tools." She has even proclaimed that Holland's Argument in "Dominion" is somehow convincing or a reason to hold on to Christianity. She is just plainly wrong on this one and she seems to believe that Atheism is more than just a proposition on the existence of God. It's sad to see another person lost to delusion and she is going to church on Sundays to further fall into the trap of sophistry.

[@dariuszgaat5771]

From a consistently materialist point of view, secular humanism is no more "correct" than any religion. There is no such thing as "good" and "evil" or "human rights" in nature. Believing in these things is no more logical than believing in angels. It's funny that many people who call themselves freethinkers and rationalists think otherwise. Also, the question about the meaning of life is important. The advantages and benefits that religion provides by providing a strong, collective, external purpose for existence are visible even from a purely Darwinian perspective: highly secularized societies are becoming increasingly atomized, sinking into empty hedonism and, as a consequence, crumbling demographically, religious societies are not.

[@CMVMic]

@@dariuszgaat5771 These are non-sequiturs. Humanism doesn't claim it is correct, it is simply a way to live with each other. I am a moral anti-realist so it's not simply that good and evil or human rights don't exist in nature, they simply are not objective existing things. They are all events within society. We define what is good and evil and we decide what rights we impose on others. The question of the meaning of life is not inherently important simply because it is important to some or most. I see no advantage to religion, we need to understand that although we are atomized because we are individuals, we can still act in ways that benefit both society and ourselves. So your appeal to consequences is based on a false slippery slope.

[@dariuszgaat5771]

@@CMVMic "Humanism doesn't claim it is correct, it is simply a way to live with each other." Of course claim. Secular humanists/left liberals, and in the past Marxists, behaved and still behave as if their worldview and moral system was the only appropriate, universal and "default" one for man. This is an obvious lie. These worldviews were not somehow rooted in human nature. They were created at a specific historical moment on the basis of Christian philosophy; it is basically a "Christianity without God". Human rights play the role of God. However, if one takes the trouble to carefully study the history of human ideas over the centuries, one will quickly realize that the basic moral values of almost all human societies have differed significantly from what humanists propagate. And that there is no "universal" ethical system. The fact that the idea of human rights has spread so widely around the world is solely due to the economic and military power of Europe and its expansion to other continents, ironically so vehemently condemned today by secular humanists as "colonialism". However, in my opinion, from a materialist point of view, there is no good reason for humanists to usurp the role of moral oracles, because their ideas are not, as they admit, written somewhere in nature, but are simply ideas - products of minds long dead philosophers from Europe. "The question of the meaning of life is not inherently important simply because it is important to some or most. I see no advantage to religion" Well, that's just your own subjective opinion. Yuval Hoah Harari believes that one of the reasons for the evolutionary success of Homo sapiens was the ability to create "imagined realities" in their minds, and religions are among the strongest and most convincing. They enable cooperation between millions of unrelated and unknown people and give them a common purpose for existence. From a purely materialistic point of view, it is very difficult to find any objective measure of what is "good" for society, but it may be Darwinian natural selection. From this point of view, good is what makes a given population prosper and grow, or at least remain at the same level. And from the point of view of this selection, atheistic worldviews are a dead end. As all statistical research shows, highly secularized ones are simply dying out. Probably because they cannot give their users the strong, collective sense of existence that religions provide.

[@UK_Canuck]

I have to say that when I read what she had to say, my overriding impression was that a spiritual transformation wasn't what was at issue. It seemed a calculated decision that was predicated almost entirely on a need to be more easily accepted as 'one of us' by those who travel on the culture war gravy train.

[@im-not-alone5587]

Let's blame believers for being too emotional and fairy tales lovers... And let's blame them again when some have actual logical reasons for their beliefs

[@respectfulgamer7232]

I shouldn't care but I can't help but feelin a bit disappointed.

[@js8098]

What I found the funniest is the bit where she says that "she still learns a lot about christianity every sunday at her church" XD what better way is there to admit that she has no clue what the religion is actually about

[@bearpoker6470]

A lot of groups (religious or political) seem to make a big deal out of who joins their side and who leaves their opposition as if it's a case for why they're right, but they don't really consider the reasons for why people switch and are dismissive of when people leave their side

[@jeronimo196]

Yes. Like for example - "Why can't an atheist fight against islam and be part of the left?" That would be a good question.

[@wakkablockablaw6025]

Atheists make a big deal out of people who leave their faith all the time. It's a tribal instinct that we all share.

[@ericcraig3875]

She has a belief in million dollar payouts.

[@im-not-alone5587]

You're pissed huh

[@ericcraig3875]

​@@im-not-alone5587pissed about what?

[@im-not-alone5587]

@@ericcraig3875 about the fact that she says she is christian

[@ericcraig3875]

@im-not-alone5587 why does that matter. I haven't heard about her for like 15 years. I listened to her speak maybe a dozen times and wasn't impressed. She was good for helping people leaving islam I guess. I didn't even know she was an atheist until this video. I wouldn't even place her in the top 100 for the movement. The horseman are defunct now anyway. Dawkins is an idiot on everything besides science and has no debate ability. Hitchens is dead but leaves amazing work, but he sucked at debate too. Den is boring. Sam is fantastic, but not out there in public much. He is loaded and happy. There are way better Atheists leading human cognitive evolution.

[@moshecallen]

Not an atheist, just to be honest and upfront. For the record, I'm a Jew albeit of a fairly rationalist sort. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has always struck me as going a bit too far in opposing Islam. I think everyone should be free to practice whatever religion if any (or none) they choose. Since I want Jews to have that freedom, so must all Muslims, all Christians, and so forth. So long as one's religion does not harm or coerce other people, one should be able to do what they want. Ms. Ali (if that's the respectful way of referring to her) strikes me as wanting to restrict the right of Muslims. It's entirely possible she does not hold those views and that I am mistaken but that is my impression at least.

[@paulcooper3611]

I have always made a distinction between Christian and Churchist. A Christian studies the teachings of Christ and tries to emulate them. A Chruchist joins and organization and follows their teachings, no matter how awful or immoral. I can count the Christians I have known without taking my shoes off. The Churhists are legion. It looks like Ayaan Hirsi Ali was a Chruchist when she identified as an Atheist. Now she has found a more fashionable wardrobe and has embraced classical Churchism.

[@raghavnamasivayam8706]

Well they are the same stop pretending christuans have some great soul

[@buzzhawk]

If Churchism is so widespread, why isn't actual Christianity any better? Mental gymnastics aside, you're just riffing off the same old atheists are immoral trope.

[@brandonkennedy4160]

It’s interesting though how many Christians who claim to not be into church get really nasty when I say I’m not Christian. I think there’s definitely still some pretty harmful stuff in the Bible. Stuff that gives some of these people these controlling and manipulative ideas. Even Jesus said to love God and himself before your spouse and your family, which definitely gives off some cult like mentality.

[@brandonkennedy4160]

@@raghavnamasivayam8706 completely agree! I’ve gotten some nasty pushback from people who pretend to be chill and don’t go to church and all that. It’ll still always be hilarious to me when Christians call other Christians not Christian.

[@hypergraphic]

I so agree with you about the labels thing. When I lost my faith, I tried so hard to find a label that would fit me, but in the end it was like trying on clothes to see if I like the fit, but it never works. There is still a lot I like about Jesus, but even if I believe 80% the same things as Christians do, I'm not a real Christian unless I believe 100% of what they believe. Never mind that there are 30 thousand denominations each with their own criteria. Ugh 😒. These days I feel like I'm equal parts mystic and skeptic. So I feel doomed to be socially homeless if I'm trying to fit in with a label.

[@katherineg9396]

You can come to my house and we'll be socially homeless together. I don't like labels. I want people to look a little deeper.

[@valerianmandrake]

No label fits because everyone is a unique individual. Putting yourself in a box designed by someone else isn't going to lead you to happiness or wisdom.

[@IsyAweigh]

I do like this unscripted video! Your poise and clarity are so admirable. What a pro!

[@Frooss2611]

I don't know who she is in her heart of hearts, but from my perspective it seems like she could have been a valuable ally if the more liberal media were so afraid of any muslim criticism. She was pushed into the arms of the right conservative moment and leaned into it more and more to find acceptance. She might have been a loss for the atheist movement, but that loss happened years ago now, and this article makes no difference

[@aaroncarl2493]

She's know different from sam Harris in my opinion but at least sam harris.caught on to the charade of the right Wing...the right Wing only entertained him cause of his anti Islam beliefs but once he expressed beliefs opposed to Christianity they turned on him

[@matthewgagnon9426]

She's been a conservative basically since she entered the scene.

[@Downhuman74]

Believe it or not, a LOT of people of belief out there don't really have a spiritual connection with their chosen faith -- it's mostly social. At a former place of work, a co-worker flat-out told me that he considered himself an atheist but still goes to church because that was where a large chunk of his familial social circle chose to congregate. He said all of his kids have gone as well and gone through all of the rites of passage - baptism, etc. - but he couldn't care less if they actually believe or not. It was all social with him. His reasoning was that people tend to not trust people who aren't active in some kind of church and it's social sphere. Hard to argue with that, TBH.

[@jacksonelmore6227]

Atheism and Christianity are both social movements Each egoistically denies Oneness and Selfhood in their own unconscious degrees And therefore denies the atheist’s axiom of reason And the Christian’s axiom of Christ By seeing the social collective as Self Rather than seeing Love as Self

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

Eh, if it's "faith" it's belief. Otherwise it's just a label for convenience.

[@timauth]

His reasoning is only hard to argue with if you are only referring to religious people or already agree with him. Not that I'm saying you do. I would further say that his reasoning is purely subjective as many church goers have differing reasons for going. Why trust someone just because they sit in the same building once a week as you. When I was a teenager, my friends and me when to church just to meet girls. Not girls with christian values. Girls. Were we trustworthy? If you find it hard to argue with someone that tends to not trust people just because they don't go to church, I find that strange.

[@Downhuman74]

@@jacksonelmore6227 I like that. I actually don't identify as atheist myself even though most Christians label me as such. I think it's ridiculous to be identified by something that you're not. And I also don't seek out the company of other "atheists". Why should I feel kinship with anyone over my lack of faith in something. That's ridiculous. I'd much rather seek out people who have similar interests as me -- music, movies, etc. True atheism denotes a lack of interest in something. Once you turn that lack of interest or belief into an ideology unto itself, that defeats the purpose.

[@Downhuman74]

@@timauth One thing I've found especially frustrating as a person of non-faith, is that people tend to think of us as untrustworthy. Incredibly, I even get this from other so called "atheists". So, no it's not-at-all hard to agree with his reasoning. Doesn't mean I'm walking into church anytime soon, though.

[@sophocles2083]

It's a win for "atheism" she left if anything. Having non religious people parrot the same arguments that are historically based on metaphysical concerns betrays a lack of commitment to material and humanist analysis. She's far more suited for the likes of Christian conservatives, within the prospect of the culture war atleast. Wouldn't be surprised if she backtracked on her criticism of Islam like many who veer to the right do in light of the perceived "woke" issue

[@celestialowl8865]

I think what shes saying isnt particularly unreasonable so long as you share a few, admittedly difficult to share presuppositions. Treating religion in this sense as a technology to push her views because religion permiates minds more feverishly than secular belief is fairly logical. Obviously points about wokeism being a plague and global warming being fake (though im not sure this is her exact stance) are.. less reasonable from my perspective, but if we accept those implicitly to get into her mindset it makes decent sense.

[@taylorlibby7642]

I agree with what you're saying about her using religion as a technology. I'm not capable of reading her mind, but this seems most like a strategic position for her to take imo. Anyway, the major reason that I deconverted was because of my opposition to fundamentalism of all types so I try very hard not engage in that kind of thought process as an atheist.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Insightful comment, OP. Christianity is an insanely successful meme and is meant to be easy to spread. I do wonder whether she’s going to speak more on the supernatural elements of the faith like the afterlife and divine intervention, which I think are some of the biggest assets to Christianity’s ability to spread.

[@taylorlibby7642]

​@@GeneticallyModifiedSkepticAlways interesting to me when religious folk concentrate more on the social efficacy of religion as opposed to it's objective truth.

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

While I agree, does that mean that she's Christian? I know I'm perilously close to commiting the No True Scotsman fallacy, but can someone be a Christian without asserting that Jesus is, at the very least, a person capable of wielding divine powers? I feel like, were I still a Christian, I wouldn't accept her calling herself as such due to her lack of faith, which is a core virtue of abrahamic religions.

[@jeronimo196]

Well, imagine I wanted to oppose islam and all the harm it brings. Paradoxically, the (liberal ?) left is currently not the place for me, is it. An islamophobe like me would pretty much have to join the right. Though converting to christianity would be a bit much for me...

[@eggs8021]

Maybe it's because I was too young in those days, but I've literally never seen her before. So even if this was something to care about, it wouldn't have a huge impact because she's frankly not as impactful as some people seem to imply

[@michaeljaques77]

You and Seth have had the best take of this that I've seen. Cheers

[@Scarnehu]

Damn, always sucks to see people turn to a right-wing grift to raise their status.

[@littleking1994two]

Or she was pushed out of the left since they are pro muslim and Islam abused her in her youth

[@laffecaffelott]

Its unfortunately the natural end point for anyone that wants to combat the religiofacist influences of Islam as the political left has no appetite for it

[@cooscoe]

As long as other atheists have a shred of intellectual integrity when it comes to their employers I think this is a pretty rare case.

[@andrwblood9162]

Talking about "civilizational war" is fascism. That is the main take away from this.