Battle of Mantinea 418 BC - Peloponnesian War 4K Animated DOCUMENTARY

[@KingsandGenerals]

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[@TheStrategos392]

As an avid fanatic of military history, kings and generals is just spoiling me rotten.

[@colynfischer2365]

Serious, these guys are great! Btw, Yinz got a nice profile pic n’at

[@TheStrategos392]

@@colynfischer2365 💯

[@jonny-b4954]

Yeah, they've got a nice thing going. Shame that KZbin demonetizes them. Absurd.

[@markusskram4181]

Same

[@eclipse9867-f5t]

Yea….. they have never been biased once nope …..sarcasm just so u redit users know

[@bilbo3436]

11:11 the 20 mounted archers being remembered to this day is quite impressive

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

Everyone talks about the rivalry between Athens and Sparta, but Argos was really Sparta's ancestral enemy. Also, it's interesting how Athens and Sparta fought each other during this period of peace without declaring war, sort of like a Cold War situation.

[@crossetler_2184]

You ain't alone in this basket. Several magazines in the world featuring articles from various people (reporters, teachers, researchers, etc) share your opinion. If you don't believe me, buy a couple from different publishers and check it out.

[@twonumber22]

​@@marcpeterson1092A tiny bit at Mig Alley.

[@Hinata0928]

Argives really are the poison on the Peloponnese.

[@Light-at-Dawn]

Thank you for covering a historical topic that not many history channels have not covered or haven't went to such depth 🙏

[@iexist3919]

Nicias, as we shall see, was a horrible strategist. The enemies of Alcibiades, the ones who falsely accused him of defacing the herme statues, would eventually doom Athens in the years to come by destroying Alcibiades's reputation. Again, I'm glad everyone else now has access to this wonderful series.

[@dlugi4198]

I am not saying my homie Alcibiades did nothing wrong, but if it was his way, I am pretty sure Athens would become the first Greek Hegemon. Where Alcibiades went, victory followed.

[@iexist3919]

@@dlugi4198Alcibiades also tended to be too overconfident, which partly led to his downfall. At the battle of Notium, he put a lot of trust into his subordinate commander, and he left him to look out for the Spartan fleet. It turns out Alcibiades put too much trust into him, as his subordinate disobeyed orders and attacked the Spartan fleet, getting annihilated. The battle was a humiliation for both Athens and Alcibiades and he was exiled as a result. While Alcibiades was a good commander, he tended to be too overconfident and arrogant.

[@dlugi4198]

@@iexist3919 Yea, well shit happens. Antichonus happened to face Lysander, arguably the only capable fleet commander in the history of Sparta.

[@giningmos2338]

Alcibiades was too arrogant, he created the Sicily expedition, which was the single most disastrous event in the Peloponnesian war for athens

[@RTWPimpmachine]

Nicias was incompetent but so was Alcibiades. Most of the accounts of Alcibiades (e.g., by Thucydides and Xenophon) come from the pro-Oligarchic factions of Athens, who prized aristocratic "virtue" above all and Alcibiades had plenty of that considering he came from a very old family. Alcibiades had little to do, for example, with the great Athenian victory at Cyzicus. The Sicilian expedition, Alcibiades' brainchild, was idiotic. I doubt anyone could have "succeeded" in it. Syracuse was a city as large as Athens, launching an expedition that far away was moronic, attacking a third-party not fighting in a stalemated war is about as stupid as you can get. It would be as if Russia suddenly decided to invade China while fighting in Ukraine.

[@thomasrinschler6783]

2:38 Argos was never part of the Peloponnesian League - they hated the Spartans for taking away local hegemony from them in preceding centuries and conspired against Sparta incessantly. About once per generation, this lead to a fight, which the Spartans inevitably won, resulting in truces scheduled to run for decades. One such truce was just expiring at this time, leading to Argos to gather allies to try to challenge Sparta once again.

[@Anglomachian]

I wasn’t aware that Argos had ever been in Sparta’s camp. They have a storied history of rivalry with the Spartans that makes the Athenian rivalry look quite trivial. Also, though it’s not very important, the Herms (the statues dedicated to Hermes along roads) were, in appearance, a solid square or rectangular block with a head on top, and a representation of male genitalia sticking out of the front.

[@EnclaveEmily]

Athens and Sparta trying not to stab eachother challenge: *Impossible*

[@balabanasireti]

Old and overused

[@EnclaveEmily]

@balabanasireti yes, it is old. 2000 years old plus in fact!

[@andrewflare1361]

Thucydides trap

[@Numba003]

Thank you guys for another fantastic episode. This series is excellent. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)

[@bornassassin2111]

Here since before you guys hit 1Mil Subs,still remember you replying to my comment back in the day,meant the world to me ^ ^ Keep up your amazing work!

[@KingsandGenerals]

Thank you for being with us so long!

[@bornassassin2111]

@@KingsandGenerals Just made my day again! :DD So thank you too!

[@shehansenanayaka3046]

Ancient Greece is one of my fav counties. Lot of things to learn. Brilliant series. I love your videos. Love from Sri Lanka ❤️🔥.

[@giannisgiannis870]

Sri Lanka?You are so far away than Greece...thank you brother.

[@brokenbridge6316]

Now I get why this was patreon exclusive for awhile. Great video.

[@markhiles4024]

Love when you do the BC Era ❤️ Thank you for everything y'all do.

[@johnbotcher8752]

I listen while I'm at work and I watch when I get home. Awesome channel

[@KingsandGenerals]

Thanks!

[@Ian-yf7uf]

One of my favorite periods of Greek history aside from the archaic age and their colonization of the Mediterranean.

[@Vicente_RO7]

Thanks!

[@queldron]

What an amazing video! Please continue with these gems Kings and Generals!

[@masonsheffield226]

These videos are so in depth it's awesome

[@michelm5072]

This war deserves a series

[@smartman8606]

How has a history channel so popular not made a video about 80 years war?

[@ProvidenceNL]

Thanks as always K&G!

[@metaconwar4601]

Love this series! Keep going!

[@ralambosontiavina7372]

Excellent work as always !

[@kumebannerlord]

Just joined the membeship, I wish you guys the very best. Been supporting the channel since I firstly saw Skanderbeg's rebellion

[@user-sc5iv2rp2t]

Alkibiades picture looks like an ordinary man while he was described as extremely handsome and charming. An Alexander before Alexander.

[@tasospodcast8832]

This video is SO good in SO many levels!

[@robbabcock_]

What a fantastic video! ⚔🔥🙌

[@somestormcloakwithanarrowo4671]

Nice, ancient battles, my favorite content

[@AironSmieciowy-di3qy]

Great video!

[@starksidegaming5663]

Always great videos

[@GenYGaming]

I just wanted to let you know 5:57 some of your Spartans do not have spear tips, they might need to be given new spears. Great videos btw been subbed for a few years now.

[@GA_Thrawn445]

they are in bottom of the spear cause they are javelins

[@GenYGaming]

​@@GA_Thrawn445 I think the troops in the front are hoplites so those would be dory which are not javelins, they do look like javelins and they can be thrown like javelins but are not javelins.

[@GA_Thrawn445]

@@GenYGaming they are using the rome 2 models and they are javelin throwers

[@GenYGaming]

@@GA_Thrawn445 ok fair enough.

[@Uzair_Of_Babylon465]

Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍

[@Z020852]

As a political science grad, and one that still has Rome II: Total War installed three computers later, I was waiting for this one.

[@carstrucks9641]

Haha bro.

[@denniscleary7580]

These videos literally make my entire day, no lie guys you are saving my life 🙏👍

[@mbathroom1]

Last time I was this early, the peloponnesian war was still ongoing

[@peterrodgers2709]

Fantastic 👏

[@dons3d854]

Great information

[@victorkumps6846]

One interesting detail of the sicilian expedition is how Nicias actually claimed huge expenses would be necessary (money, boats, men etc) in order for the agora to realize how crazy the idea of the expedition was. But it backfired spectacularly because they actually bought it and instead of a small venture, in became a huge fleet and huge expense which eventually caused a loss from which they never recovered. I like to imagine him, sailing at the head of a fleet far bigger than the one he originally was reluctant to lead

[@Mrkabrat]

Alcibiades switched sides so much that it does show how chaotic those times were

[@LoneWanderer727]

Athens: "accept democracy or face your doom!!!" Think they might have forgotten some of the principles during this war 😅

[@jimmyandersson9938]

Was it any special principles tied to democracy back then tho?

[@desmondd1984]

@@jimmyandersson9938 Mostly opposition to oligarchy and a belief that (male) citizens were able to effectively govern better than "tyrants". There was, as yet, no real concept of human rights. Many of the things we associate with democracy today were not yet present.

[@jimmyandersson9938]

@@desmondd1984 Yeah and it seems they were right concidering how well Athens was doing, playing biggest role in defending from Persia and then becoming a small empire. Guess its hard to say if its a correlation or causation of their democracy.

[@Zyzyx442]

Comment The Athenian aesthetic and culture is just, kino. Love it.

[@saltedllama2759]

It is incredible to read the writings of great people throughout history, from their manner of conduct to their grammar and penmanship; while also looking at how less intelligible we have become as a species today.

[@-RONNIE]

Good video thanks 👍🏻

[@sidp5381]

Hey guys, well done as usual I have to ask how are you still plan to redo the battle of Ankara for the Ottoman series or is that pretty much done at this point since he already did it again for the Tamerlane series

[@KingsandGenerals]

Not sure right now

[@moderatedoomer2945]

You gotta love that neo cons read Thucydides' lament of the excesses of imperialism and the neo cons picked out the line about great powers and lesser powers and were like "this fuckin' rules, lets make the weak suffer what they must."

[@KingsandGenerals]

Selective reading required

[@johnquach8821]

Very interesting video! Maybe a "How weak was post-Alexander Greece really?" I've heard that the Macedonian Greece was actually weaker than Classical Greece, but I want to know if this was true.

[@petrosb52]

It is probably true just after Alexander's death lamian war happened, then Epirus vs Sparta, epirus vs argos, epirus against Macedon, diadochi wars, Macedon vs pergamon, Athens vs Macedon, Macedon and achaian league vs Aetolian league, Sparta vs achaian league and so on. If you have in mind that Greece was at war constantly from 490 Bce (against Persia) you have 300 years of wars

[@johnquach8821]

@@petrosb52 And then that post-Alexander/Macedonian Greece got conquered by Rome.

[@Pyrrhic537]

The problem with Greece was constant war and division amongst Greeks.

[@CG-yq2xy]

Well, before Phillip II it was definitely more backwards and underdeveloped. It's primary exports were (if I remember correctly of course) mostly timber and a few other commodities and it really lacked the trade and industry that was characteristic of Athens and the other states. It was really after Phillip studied in Thebes and built off of what he learned when Macedonia came into it's own. The post - diadochi era (i.e. the Hellenistic age) was quite an interesting one regarding this question. Compared to the other city states, Macedonia was still strong. Thebes had been raised to the ground, Athens was at best a middle power and Sparta was in a downward spiral after the battle of Leuctra, never to project any power beyond the Peloponnese. Ironically, it could be argued that from the "classical" city states Corinth was the preeminent power hence why the Romans burned it. However Macedonia had to compete with Ptolemaic Egypt, Seleucid Asia, Asia Minor, and even Pontus who funny enough were cut from the same Alexandrian cloth as Macedonia and possessed even more resources. So after the diadochi wars, Macedonia went from being a big fish in a pond of tired small ones to a small fish in an ocean of bigger ones. Then of course (as is typical of Greek history), there was a general malaise during the closing times of the Hellenistic era. Alexander, when he showed up, was "fresh" (to use some US slang), had a vision, and used new strategies and techniques. Everyone else following his death was at best a cheap knockoff of Alexander, with the last Greek general to really add any innovations and vision being king Pyrrhus. The great Hellenistic empires either turned inwards into spectacle (Egypt especially in Alexandria) and let the natives run the daily affairs, lost vast regions of their land to both natives and invaders (Seleucids) or just let internal squabbles eat away at them (Pergamon). At that point the Classical Era Greek city states were not even on the radar, the were used as the stomping ground and proxies of the bigger players. The last person who attempted to remedy the situation was Philopoemen with his Achaean League, though it was too little too late. In the end, the Romans played these differences to their advantage and took over the region.

[@kingtryfon5702]

greece as we know it today wasnt as powerfull but the greeks at that time controlled the world that was the peak the greeks ever reached the century from 300bc to 200bc

[@OPVSNOVVM]

It is obvious that the ancients did not study history just to know what exactly happened, but also to morally educate themselves with the events that took place. They seemed to have appreciated the thread that runs through events more than the exact events and their exact details. That is probably why ancient historians featured these dialogues or speeches, which could not have been recorded in any exact way. Yet they point us toward the lessons we need to take.

[@METALFREAK03]

Athenian history likes to create drama as their main etnertainment was the amphitheatres. It might be read as a moral quandary today but back then it be like us watching a soap opera like Dallas or Eastenders.

[@OPVSNOVVM]

@@METALFREAK03 I wouldn't dismiss that interpretation, but to solely focus on that possibility would be an underestimation of the ancients, I think. We also need to consider the practical facts: writing was costly and had to be concise, unless there was something more valuable to transmit in it than its production cost. The fact that those writings were copied for millennia is proof enough for me that both their contemporaries and subsequent generations found value in them.

[@QuestenReese]

you should do the american revolution followed by the american civil war,, i think it’d be very eye opening as well as some of your most popular series’

[@talebmalainine]

Thank you can you please cover early Roman expansion to the Punic wars please❤😊

[@darthveatay]

You guys are better than the history Channel

[@jkbtw293]

please make a video on what weapons the goguryeo used

[@ompatel1378]

Will you guys cover the Persian invasions of Greece and Cyrus conquests

[@Kelek0400]

Love your videos, but you've misspelled "Emperor" in member ranks

[@julianmarsh8384]

This could have been a lot better. I don't remember reading that Argos was a member of the Spartan Alliance...Agis originally had the Argive army trapped when he accepted to negotiate rather than fight the Argives...this is why the Spartans were so upset with the guy; he had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to eliminate Argive power forever, and had passed. Though he was to lead another effort against Argos, the Spartans did not trust his judgement and before he could engage in any action, he had to get the approval of a special council of 10 Spartan advisors who accompanied the army. The accounts I have read, indicate the Athenians at the battle did not actually fight; seeing the invincible Spartan hoplites bearing down on them, they lost their nerve and fled the battlefield.

[@markusskram4181]

Love The vid

[@nomooon]

11:09 20 mounted archers hahaha such precise and small number for a specialized unit of elites for ancient greece I guess...

[@Electric_Crystals]

what mods are you using for total rome2 ?? I need those in my life!! thanks in advance!

[@alfrancisbuada2591]

Wonder when you will do Leuctra?

[@KingsandGenerals]

Down the line, not planned or scheduled right now

[@alfrancisbuada2591]

@@KingsandGenerals hey I've been waiting for you. When are you guys gonna do my idea of the Spanish-American War and the Filipino-American War?

[@bishop6218]

Everybody : "But who were the good guys and who were the bad guys in the Péloponnesian Wars ?" Historians : "Ummm..."

[@Hinata0928]

Both sides have bad ones. But it was the Athenians have more bad ones than the Peloponnese.

[@zerofoxgreco]

What is the modern name of Ornae city ( 09:50 ) ???

[@danielbalderrama4137]

Wait, how much of your content is member exclusive.

[@kokturk6207]

Would it be possible to do a video about Cumania which was led by the kiptschacks? My ancestors were kiptschacks too and had to flee to Erzurum because of the wars and occupation from the Russian Empire.

[@KingsandGenerals]

Yep, it is coming

[@alientoni]

Good series, but what happen with post Caesar civil war, it's been half a year since the last video

[@davidhughes8357]

Victor Davis Hanson said it all i belive.

[@John333Scout]

It doesnt make sense why Sparta would sit idlily by while Athens come down to Argos and sieged Ornae, i mean that shit is right by Sparta. Then to also do nothing when Athens were sieging Melos. It makes a bit more sense cuz of the logistics of crossing the sea and Athens being a naval superior nation but still. To do nothing and consider this to be "peace" is ridiculous.

[@PcCAvioN]

Spartans don't actually like fighting. Every time they have to fight is a time their mystique is challenged. They "go to war" by marching to Athens, burning some fields then leaving. If they don't have a clear advantage they do not like fighting

[@Aginor88]

Interesting as per ususal.

[@KingsandGenerals]

Thanks!

[@davidhughes8357]

A lesson in human nature unlearned until this very day. We love to discuss the details but not the big picture. That's ok. That is why things have never changed and likely never will.

[@rick80234]

What mods you using for rome two?

[@BOSIE321]

I can never shake the feeling that Athens really should have won this war and that Alcibiades, demagogue he may have been, would have had far more success in Sicily simply because he believed in the venture and was decisive in his decision making.

[@DSS-jj2cw]

Until I starting watching this series I always had rooted for Athens. They were just as bad as the Spartans. The senseless Wars of these petty kingdoms prevented a united Greece.

[@saidtoshimaru1832]

"Syracusians, Sparta has heard of your woes!" "Yes, here comes the Spartans!". "Actually, here come the Spartan"

[@perikleshistory]

Greece spent 150 years exhausting herself in internal struggles, Phillip's conquest in this respect seems inevitable.

[@sanmames8203]

Correction Greece spent 300 years of internal wars and romes conquest was inevitable

[@StavrosDS]

Honestly these over-simplifications are almost cringe by now... Macedon was a fully engaged party in this essentially Pan-Hellenic conflict dubbed the Peloponnesian War (switching sides a couple of times) and was also one of the theatres of the war. It suffered also a major invasion by the Thracian Odryssai during that time that left it mostly ravaged. After the Peloponnesian War, the victorious Spartans were eventually defeated by their former allies, the Thebans, who established their hegemony for a while in the Hellenic world, including Macedon, this is why much of Philip's early life was spent in Thebes. It was Philip's stay in Thebes that taught him a lot about politics and warfare, so when he returned to Macedon and eventually became king, he proceeded in reforming the state and the army. Using his martial and diplomatic skills he then became ruler of Thessaly, which Jason of Pherai had previously positioned as a major power in the Greek world. By combining the potential of these two regions, Philip was able to defeat the Athenian - Theban alliance and established himself as hegemon (strategos - autokrator) of the Hellenes. So Macedon was the eventual (while indeed unlikely) victor of the multi-faceted power struggle that ensued in the Hellenic world after the defeat and retreat of the Persians from the Balkans, in which Macedon was constantly a participant, for the most part as a secondary power, while under Philip as the major hegemonic one.

[@perikleshistory]

@@StavrosDS the point is clear. Fight internally for long enough and an outside force will come through.

[@StavrosDS]

@@perikleshistory No it is not clear at all! Maybe you did not really read my argument... There was no unified political entity named Greece at the time. There were Hellenic city states and kingdoms that fought each other for supremacy. Macedon was included in this struggle from the beginning and at times suffered greatly. Macedon was not really an outside force then, since it was always included in the power plays of the Greek world. I am not going to go into further discussions on how Greek the ancient Macedonians where, based on quotes of their Athenian enemies etc. The ancient Macedonians it is PROVEN by archaeology and linguistics that they were a Hellenic people who spoke an ancient Greek dialect (albeit unrefined and rough as perceived by the south). Even the Athenians after Chaeronia implored Phillip to show mercy, now that he became the "new Agamemnon". And Phillip did. Can you imagine the Athenians saying something similar to a Persian or Illyrian or whatever? Of course not...

[@perikleshistory]

@@StavrosDS actually there was a clear, separate Hellenic identity. Of which Macedon was on the fringe.

[@philtkaswahl2124]

Athens and Sparta: "We really don't wanna fight, but we kinda have to."

[@Hinata0928]

Athens: Let's p off the Peloponnese. Argos: Just give us something and we just stab Spartan surroundings for you. Athenians: Sure.

[@icostaticrebound6007]

How many users are in your discord server?

[@mikemodugno5879]

Can't wait for the Siege of Syracuse!

[@Hinata0928]

Yeah, and see some Boy Lovers fall to their doom. Melians shouldn't have suffered for that scumbags.

[@TitanLRV]

The guy castrating himself with a stone.... oh god I could almost feel that by thinking of it

[@bsoul3177]

nice

[@napoleonibonaparte7198]

So Sicily being the overstated "soft underbelly" had ancient roots...

[@bigsarge2085]

💥💥💥

[@starksidegaming5663]

🔥

[@pilomalik9696]

I would love to send you my script on Alcibiades. It is written more historically accurate than anything made about the classical world before. Let’s team up!

[@jessejojojohnson]

Upload your own videos to your channel. I'll watch that too

[@pilomalik9696]

@@jessejojojohnson it’s a script. Written as an hbo series or whoever picks it up. I wrote all the battle scenes on location. I just need to get it out there and I don’t know anyone in the business.

[@ElBandito]

Ah Sicily, the grave of the Athenian Empire, Pyrrhus, and Carthagenian Empire.

[@Kimmerios-l5u]

Actually Pyrrhus never lost a battle in Sicily.He was obliged to abandon his campaign there because the Romans(Carthage's allies by that time) were gaining the upper hand in Italy again.Pyrrhus had to return to Italy to face them.

[@ElBandito]

@@Kimmerios-l5u I'm referring to the fact that Pyrrhus had the opportunity to be the King of Macedon, but instead he chose to chase out the Carthagenians in Sicily, where he lost almost his entire navy, many of his army and valuable time. And this Sicilian venture directly sent him to Italy afterwards as a result, and what a shitshow he got himself into over there.

[@Kimmerios-l5u]

@@ElBandito actually he was for a time the king of Epirus and Macedon. He was trying to do what his cousin, Alexander,did for the Greeks of the East. He tried to liberate the Greeks of the West from the constant threat of the Romans and the Carthaginians. You have to rembember also that his uncle,Alexander 1st of Epirus,died in the attempt to do exactly that. So the problem was n't that Pyhrrus failed in his task to solve these problems.The problem was that the other greek states failed or refused to do the same. Actually the Carthaginians were left with just one city to hold on to Sicily because of Pyhrrus and because of that they made a pact with the Romans.

[@nicholasgochenour7793]

Yay!

[@pilomalik9696]

I wrote a tv series on Alcibiades.

[@BryinWillis-e8g]

Evening

[@samuelmargueret9626]

Hum the piece as been broken, that's showing that an alliance not united is nothing in any points...the Blood should be spilled !!! The greeks are damm crazy as fuck warrios..... Nice vidéo as always !!

[@LinksBetweenDrinks]

Thank you, for making more and more history content. And I'm a heterosexual man who's quite confident in his own sexuality, but damn. Your voice actor is a sexy man.

[@jozzieokes3422]

[@theawesomeman9821]

This Agis guy was basically Spartan Stalin. Evil and ruthless.

[@Sami-xt8jf]

You know a disaster is coming when even the narrator tells you it will happen. btw finally some decent sized armies. Battle between only a 1000 men doesnt cut it😅

[@shrutipatel9464]

Polopinisian war will have how many videos😅 10:29

[@giannisgiannis870]

I am greek and i am so sad for this..

[@ykardasis]

The Melian Diaolgue's. The cornerstone of political science

[@Hinata0928]

And shows that Athenians weren't that merciful.

[@64standardtrickyness]

Question why would anyone unconditionally surrender in the ancient world? Are they just counting on their enemies to be merciful?

[@kylelee9474]

[@cichlid9626]

Ancient greek history its a prova generale for what is going on in modern world

[@davidkinsey8657]

I don't mind that you have patreon only series. I am very upset that you took a series that I had been following for almost 3 years and switched it from free to patreon only. That wasn't cool.

[@presidentlee2261]

FIRST but why there are comments already?

[@KingsandGenerals]

Patrons and KZbin members get early access

[@jenszitzmann1280]

❤