Battletome Seraphon 2023 - Full Review

[@dafruk1]

Can i just say a huge thank you to your editor (even if it is you!). Getting this published so quickly after the twitch stream was a fantastic effort.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

It is me. Rob. So thanks!!

[@MaMonkeyN]

100% agree Insane Pace given the crazy funtimes the twtich reviews are live ❤

[@unleashedagain555]

Yeah dude, epic work. Felt for you in the final moments of the stream haha. So excited about this book

[@Flummoxed_Buffoon87]

Square Bass'd

[@coledelahooke809]

Rob, I appreciate you, I know a lot of people say you only care about your twitch chat because they pay you in Nagash NOS kits to flip on eBay, but I still think you are the best.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Hahahahahaha 🤣 Thanks babe

[@gailonebell2154]

These reviews are the best. I love the mix of comments on top level combinations for competitive play with acknowledgment that sometimes you can do something in this game just because it's fun. This is a great review of this book with excellent commentary on the abilities in the book and how they could be used together. Looks like the new Kroaknado is the Kroaktrog combo.

[@Praaguematic]

Chef Ron serving you his Leek & Potatoes special is my favourite youtube content.

[@taikenSHOW]

loved your review, i just saw the entire 2 hours, thanks a lot. I just bought the Seraphon army set and im gonna build those 10 raptadons as chargers

[@eztac433]

Thanks for the great rundown Rob, really excited for this book. Been collecting lizardmen since I was 10 and the new Slann warscroll has me hyped

[@gimiak]

Rob. I must admit that your battletome reviews are one of the best reviews out there. Really enjoyed what you did. Seraphon is my army for AoS, but till now I didn't have the opportunity to play and assemble. With the new army box and new models, I think the time has come. Thank you and till next time. You're doing a very good job for AoS community. :) Ps: The last two shows about Old World were also great, especially with the comments to the square bases. Epic.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Oh thanks very very much

[@jeancouscous]

I also enjoy square based :)

[@tw8364]

Best AOS content out there, great review Rob thank you!

[@GhostGuitars]

Fantastic review, Rob. I played Lizardmen in 5e and am considering playing AoS, been collecting for WHFB return. Loved this

[@avocadoarmadillo7031]

Thanks for the rundown! I'm kind of excited that Kroak + Slaan is a viable, the preorder box is looking appealing...

[@Anjouvis]

Rob this was great, I am so excited to play the new Seraphon!!!

[@hapijoel7569]

Super enjoyed this, many thanks. I've heard (and couldn't see a base size listed on your screenshots to confirm) that the new Raptadons are the same base size as the Saurus Knights I've been hoarding, so looks like i'll be proxying some cavalry!

[@decokane1019]

Also, if you do take 4 bastilladons you can do one with a blue stripe over its head, one with a red stripe, one purple... You see where this is going.

[@drakeclaw8872]

Teenage Magical Ninga Dinosaurs

[@tiduswrath]

this is easily the coolest idea I have ever heard as far as a themed army goes for Seraphon. you could make your lord Kroak a little rat

[@valeraoneshot918]

Some mistakes. 5:48 Monstous Rampages happen in the end of the charge phase, not at the start of combat phase 23:34 GW forgot that Dispelling ES occures at the start of Hero phase, how can this spell (Drain Magic) increase your dispelling roll? It can't because it only works until the end of that phase. (FAQ required) 1:17:16 Ninety attacks from 30 skinks not equal 15 MW, you must be confused them with mortals on six to hit, 90 attacks hit on 4+ = 45 hits, 45/6= 7.5 additional MW from sixes to wound on average. Your battletome reviews are probably the best on youtube. Thank you.

[@warrenlunney1833]

This book single-handedly makes Null Myriad even more appealing especially in a team event.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Yes!!!

[@Flummoxed_Buffoon87]

Unless it is all Saurus all day, can't stop won't stop

[@JinxThe27]

Whats null myriad?

[@al_s93]

​@@JinxThe27 Ossiarch Bonereaper subtraction ignores all spells on a 2+.

[@recluse4788]

​@@al_s93as long as your within 9" of a mortisan or arkhan

[@shawnm3012]

Loving the review

[@luke_smith262]

Rob your awesome, keep doing what your doing.

[@davidfortin6437]

Dope review, Rob.

[@tacoiscrazy1158]

Saw this and knew my homework wasn’t going to get done tonight

[@Charlieistaken]

Yup discrete math is gonna have to wait i have more important matters to attend

[@connorsimons4002]

Let’s freaking go

[@loganfendt4197]

The Empower Celestine is also awesome on Aggradon spears as it will bring em to -3

[@Tyranidus7]

I will always remember the power and fear one could instill when putting a Blot Toad by a unit in First Edition. Rippers could delete anything back then and putting that toad down was a death sentence. How the mighty have fallen but it was deserved they were too powerful. I think they can be a fun unit this edition.

[@collywwob]

The Chode Tech sounds good. Might run one of them.

[@Dre0oq]

Amazing content as usual. Love the energy you bring. I'm excited that Saurus got the Bestigor treatment. That second wound is gonna be huge. Splitting the profile between clubs and spears feels bad, especially with the rise of fight in two ranks betallions. Just makes spears worthless. I love that new Salamander is basically just old Cygor. I'd recognize that 1 Attack 4+ 2+ -2 D6 anywhere. It's even the same points at 125! The fact it's up to 24" and provides the save debuff is great icing. Kroxigor are puzzling to me. I think they're held back by trying to adhere to this fluffy buddy cop power pair thing with Skinks. Were there points differences between the Warspawned and reg Krogixor? Warspawned just seemed straight worse having to jump through hoops of getting Skinks killed to get the attack that reg kroxigor have built in. Def a bit of a shakeup to how the old book was. I like that things were streamlined and moved away from all the command abilities.

[@liveanotheranime3526]

Warspawned are 10 more points. Look cool but think I’d rather just take regular Kroxigor.

[@nicolasjacquin3507]

I think the telepathic summons allowing you to getting in melee is intended. Slanns are powerful, but they will get torn open when something gets in melee with them. They might survive a turn, but that's it. This spells is kinda like a "Oh fuck" spell to get stuff (especially temple guards) to come protect your big magic frog. If they FAQ it to teleport outside of 9" it'll completely useless as a "Oh fuck" spell, since if stuff is in melee with your slann it's pretty easy for your opponent to ensure there's no space within 9" of the slann but more than of 9" of said stuff. Altough I could see an FAQ to prevent the range of this spell from being increased, as the extra range from the astrolith could be a bit cheesy.

[@gailonebell2154]

I could see them changing it to outside 3" - teleporting directly into combat is just really wonky.

[@p3rils3nsitive]

@@gailonebell2154 Khorne Bloodbind lets you pull things into combat - I think this is intended

[@tombackhouse7271]

“Working class dinosaurs” is brilliant

[@zaidi450]

Leaks and potatoes in space!🦎

[@dragunmunday]

Does anyone know if the Agraddon Lancers are battleline?

[@TheLemonFox]

Space Thought Demons or Working Class Ground Lizards 😂. Love ur work man.

[@GeekySkippy]

Great review. I’m excited for spell slinging Starborne and tanky Saurus blocks. Why dna to run both. Lol.

[@Yoyoman996]

this man is a content MACHINE

[@bryanjordan1165]

Even with a "stay 9 inches away" rule.. If you can move afterwards...if you have a huge deathstar unit.. you can deploy your slann near the front of your line..... put your death star 15 inches up.. move them their 5 inches.. or with a run 11 inches.. then charge..

[@zramirez5471]

Left my phone running while I went looking for the dog, came back to "...your fairly normal monster-pegging situation " ...😂

[@RichSanders]

Great guy, great book

[@thehonestaspy102]

Can someone tell me why being 10 wounds affects how you interact with a wildwood?

[@raigomander2817]

Best warhammer channel

[@Nachtmahr_Senior]

Question about the Mystical Unforging Spell: When a unit has a special ability that gives them on a certain dice roll a rend of "-2", but normally begins with a "-" Rend Characteristic does the spell affect these "-2" even if they only got triggered under certain conditions?

[@JogPLC]

Death Stench - name of my favourite metal band

[@Thaumatolgist]

Would Spacefolder's Stave also affect summoned units?

[@SquiglyBitz]

Sorry but I didn’t see any warscrolls for the Raptadon chargers and hunters. I just want to know how much they are thanks

[@ewaluatoradaptacyjny]

What with FW Dread Saurian?

[@wiseman8728]

Newbie here,I want to start a thunder lizard army, should I get two vanguards or a chistmas box?

[@leo3600]

Need to correct you on one thing, they have faq it, changing the wound characteristics won’t disqualify them from bing GC or GV in this season, so slann can take the artefact +4 Movment and still be a GC

[@GhostGuitars]

"So there is Dinosaurs, ruled by magic frogs...."

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

That's the truth!

[@tomdoysch]

Seems like they got some of the best bits of OBR, SBGL, BoC and the seraphon got even better... if you have saurus guard at least 😮

[@Raskin1590]

Just leaving a comment for the twitch chat cause they love it

[@jjnumber10]

Excellence

[@yugerk]

Are saurus knights or chameleon skinks in the tome anymore?

[@bradleyaustin5978]

Nope. The new chameleon skinks are in a box with other models and saurus knights are gone completely with no suitable replacement.

[@marc-andredeslauriers7687]

Been looking at this, and all the recent books (SBGL, OBR, Khorne and Slaanesh) and as a StD player, I feel like I am gonna have a hard time xD

[@mrbunning8051]

Love it Rob, time to dust of the Dino's! 👍

[@gabemamede5793]

Is the dread saurian gone?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Yes

[@stephenvoyer9788]

I’m reading the Coalesced ability as adding 1 to how many bite rolls you make not plus one to 6+. Is that correct?

[@aardsaus]

No

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

1:49:34 old vs new saurus jumpscare.

[@TheMagicalPinata]

Drain magic is half useless as it says add 1 to dispelling for the phase... but dispelling happens at the start of the Hero Phase EDIT; Incandescent Recatries might be amazing on a trog. That is a lot of healing.

[@gailonebell2154]

I feel like I'd virtually always prefer +1 save over d3 healing in my hero phase though

[@TheMagicalPinata]

@@gailonebell2154 true, unless you fight mortal wound spam I guess

[@AlexiBastos]

Can kroak do 4d3 mortals to one unis using his spell?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

To 3 units per hero phase

[@ItsXodious]

Karl Franz is gonna have a real bad day when he reads this book.

[@aqure9]

That was a quick leak

[@DaHobbles]

Ace. +1 Engagement

[@l337haxz0rn00b]

Trog oracle teleporting saurus to him sounds spicy.

[@arinkyo]

The soupest review in AoS

[@FlipityGibett]

I’m glad that they are making sure Seraphon wrecks again. Just because it was unfair they were more balanced recently.

[@KisifrothSippik]

I feel about the Aggradons Lancers that playing them by 6 is not a bad idea. Even if the coherency is bad at the beginning, you can charge something, and hope to lose one model and stay engaged, then they enraged and the 5 could fight. I'm really looking forward to try this unit out!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Let us know how it goes

[@avocadoarmadillo7031]

I don't think the terradons are too bad. Let's say you have 6 and a chief, 330 points, youd average 5.83 successful rolls x 2 (average of d3) for just under 12 mortal wounds on average. So choose a well armored priority target and either remove a bunch of models or seriously damage or slay outright a big guy, then charge in to something you can actually damage with the low rend attacks. Add in synergy with the Spawn of Chotek or serpent staff, and you've got a lot of value off of 330 pts Add in another unit of silly bomb pterodactyls and you'd be statistically likely to wipe Teclis during a flyby. Kinda fun, kinda dumb, gonna try em 😁

[@alias-yv2ro]

Is the start collecting lizardmen still a good idea? Will the models be invalidated or something haha

[@aaronreeve7374]

The start collecting saurus box would still be good value for the carnosaur and saurus warriors, but they will be the old models. The saurus knights in that box aren’t in the new battletome so I wouldn’t pick up that box. I’d do the start collecting skinks instead bc everything in that will still be included in the new book

[@hapijoel7569]

Unfortunately I believe its currently the only place to pick up the Carnisaur/Troglodon kit but hopefully that changes soon

[@liveanotheranime3526]

Can get the Carnosaur/Troglodon in its own box, but it’s like $75-80 after discount by itself when the start collecting is $90ish. Knights might be able to be used again in Old World and if not well basically $10-15 for 10 warriors (old sculpt) when new ones will be $50-60 for 10.

[@markpandelidis2079]

I don't understand the skink load out options. There's the option to take ranged, melee and shield, and then the option to take JUST melee and shield...with no benefit. So why? Doesn't make any sense.

[@liveanotheranime3526]

Moonstone club has 2 attacks with hits/ wounds on 4+ instead of dagger which has 1 attack with hits/wounds on 5+.

[@Tyranidus7]

I think you're unfair to the Terrawings, they're amazing cheap chaff, basically like the stormcast birds but can turn off command abilities which is pretty great, I think one or 2 units thrown in as an army screen isn't a bad idea.

[@Animasitas]

rob my guy, as a fellow GERD sufferer, you need to get some antacids in ya ASAP

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

What's that?

[@Animasitas]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams Maybe I am wrong, but a heap of times throughout this video and others it looks like you are getting reflux. It is especially noticeable at 46:40. Not a dig, just trying to help a brother out. Antacids are magic

[@elithesandwich7015]

Do raptadon chargers get the redeploy benefit from fangs of sotek?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Yes they have the skink keyword

[@elithesandwich7015]

Thank you!!

[@Elvings92]

Why are you so mind blown by the realm shaper engine ability? It's almost the same as in the old battletome.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Because it's insanely good

[@pardoe17789]

All I'm going to be able to see is Slanns doing Cosmic Power Point Presentations with ancient laser pointers and projectors. We expect and increase in Skink production in Q3 of this Battle

[@sneakybeak4032]

You can tell OBR Null Nyriad 2+ ignore spells was written alongside this tome. Seraphon for AoE spell dom 😂😂

[@SynthaxGaming]

1:34:01 someone plz clip this

[@davidsturrock2733]

While I really appreciate you doing this, Rob, will you not get hauled over the coals for doing it so early?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

No. I've never signed an NDA with games workshop. We have a zero sponsorship policy on the show

[@valeclaw1697]

I like a lot of it, but i do feel like some restrictions on Saurus and Skink generals is a shame. Losing prayers is a shame, thry really shouldve gotten an Old Ones prayer scripture.

[@warka19]

No generic battle traits?

[@JohannesS..]

Nope

[@blastbeatpie3239]

Thanks for your review - it's help me decide to pick up the army set. I'm looking for a Starborn list, mainly because I have a particular cosmic paint scheme in mind, and they also seem like the most powerful and fun choice. I'm a bit gutted that the monsters seem a little weak, but at least the Troglodon sounds good and it's a lovely model - probably the best of the older range. Definitely disappointed that they didn't update the ageing Saurus Guard kit (or include them as a dual kit in the new Saurus box.....), as they sound pretty necessary in Slaan focused lists. Most of the fun units sound a little mediocre though? I really like the Agradons and the Kroxigor models, but they don't sound that great, especially in Starborn, which is sad. I'm honestly not sure how to expand the launch box (apart from the Astrolith bearer) as I have a strict 0 named character policy, so no Kroak for me ! This book sounds a bit like Battle Tome Lord Kroak, plus the rest, but maybe I've inferred that?

[@jeckles]

Why do you always skip the Warbands? 3 hrs is no problem but hey

[@cmleibenguth]

I think there are public decency laws regarding someone dominating their dinosaur during a game...

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Only for cowards

[@bartswargaming]

"Kind of your working class dinosaur" lolol

[@kyloroux]

Holy Crap, did Matt Ward write this bloody Battletomb? Eggregious book writing here...once again Seraphon will take the top of the meta without the Generals needing to leverage the game's core rules to get a well-earned 5-0. I understand we should take this opinion with a grain of salt until it's seen a couple months of gameplay, but I've rarely felt this confident after a battletomb review.

[@kyloroux]

P.S. Thanks Rob for the great, concise review!:)

[@Waywardpaladin]

Best part is you are here saying that where above you someone is crying about how nerfed they are.

[@woanjinnchong273]

Thunder lizards nerf?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Yes but that's good

[@parsath_2584]

Makes me a bit sad. I wanna play the dinosaur faction for dinosaurs, not magic frogs :(

[@Waywardpaladin]

​@@parsath_2584 Coalesced plays well with dinos.

[@Tulkash01]

I’ll tell you this: those new models will look great in the Old World!

[@brib9716]

No more chameleon skinks?? NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[@sigurdkamisama1455]

Hunters of huanchi are literally chameleon skinks of plastic, so dont worry you can play your chameleons skink as huanchi hunters 🦎

[@Praaguematic]

The summoning turned this into a NPE powerhouse. They have to cap the summing points collection per phase or a turn.

[@unleashedagain555]

How so? You can maybe go all out and get 30 by turn 3. No different to other summoning really.

[@Praaguematic]

Other summoning usually has more hard-reach conditions. This is just accruing when you cast spells w Kroak.

[@benthomas5108]

Very surpirised Slann dont know the whole lore...strange choice. I do love how the artifacts you can pick are bits you can build onto the models though!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

That's madness

[@custodesdan1089]

KZbin thug life

[@kdhlkjhdlk]

Hilarious they release this just before old world comes out. It's the World Eaters codex all over again.

[@martinnilsson2110]

Age of seraphon 2.0 ?

[@Waywardpaladin]

One unit can't be wholly within each map quarter at the same time.

[@tecgoblin]

Referring to the grand strategy. I wanted to say the same thing

[@Kantorblue]

This is everything I hoped for and more, however I did hear the twitch chat are low class peasant dinosaurs and the KZbin commenters are the upper class space wizards

[@40KWill]

Dinosaur have feathers. These at dragons not dinosaur.

[@sururu6]

where do you get 20+ summon points lol????? even with 1500 points in mages and the relic to get more points, you would have 11 cast, maybe 7 would go off or not canceled at best, so even with relic it would be 13-14 points. and that is with everything on mages, doing 0 damage besides comet and kroak, and kroak would go back to do 0 dmg in turn2 after suicide troglodon. so you would get an average of 17 skinks going full mages and with everyone alive.... totally the same as slanesh getting a 400p keeper every 1-2 turns only playing normally with a normal list lol. everything do so low damage for his points lol per example raptors do an average 11 dmg with 2 rend, when vampire cavalry do around 18, with same rend or mortals only for 20points. or saurus hero costing as vampires, but not healing not being mages and swaping an amazing +1 to atacks for a useless +1 wound on saurus( dont even stack with koat pasive). or skinks losing half his dmg and even going up in points!!! even zombies do same dmg for almost half his points now. or trexs doing less dmg than 180points celestant in dracoths.... and new joke engine, first miniature that do negative damage haha since mathecally will always dmg himself unless you dont do anything for some turns and forgot to tell kroak lost +1 to cast since of course asterisms went away.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Hey. You want to see bad stuff here. It's an emotional response and you are wrong. Re listen to the info. Take your time. Everything is ok

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

To help you with the math. You get +1 for banner and terrain and each wizard. Kroak, slann, banner alone gets 4 points. Slaan with artefact casts at least 2 that's 4 more kroak will do all as you'll be +3 to cast and have cogs. That's 12 and you havent tried hard

[@sururu6]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams lol counted up everything, kroak, slan, troglo,astro,skink and star. slann with relic, but counting 100% casts is flat lie or delusional, like i said those are 6 points, plus 11 cast that will get 7 off at best, maybe 2/3 with relic, so 9 points, and sceno so 16 points at best. with everything goes mages doing 0 dmg to the rival besides kroak suicide troglo and comet. even getting everything off would get 21 points, and wont happen. hey i know you want to get hype on people and so, but dont be emotional and say you can get 20+ easy , it is like saying slanesh get 36 depravity per turn only on the 6 d6:D

[@tobyfarrow7081]

Lord Kroak looks so much better than Nagash for less than half the points. Makes me so sad!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

So much better

[@sururu6]

well 4 cast at +2 for 400 vs 8 cast at +4 for almost 1k.... nagash is waaaay better as mage lol and kroak do 0 dmg while nagash do the damage of 300points monsters. and nagash gives 5++ and revive tons of free points, where kroak do... guves some comands on an army without any fommand ability haha. only issue with nagash is it should have 30+ wounds for those points minimun

[@Phacelessgod]

As a sylvaneth player....I quit

[@envaya9838]

sylvaneth player here, how so?

[@Phacelessgod]

@@envaya9838 I'm definitely being dramatic, but the magic heavy build is going to be a pretty hard counter to us. The mortal wounds alone have potential to lift a durthu or alarielle with a 6 up ward on t1.

[@tommyback7642]

Pass on the army. Still a list of nerfs I’ve been Dunking on for months.

[@deathtomuz]

I dont get it. You seem to say that the Engine of the god can be fun. It obviously can't, he will not be playable. You have to waste time to, at the end, have a CHANCE of doing something. You have to pass 3 turns to have a chance to summon 10 saurus warriors (200pts). AND IT STILL CAN FAIL ! That garbage piece cost 300pts !! This has to be one of the weakest mini in the entire game

[@davidraine8686]

Going to single handily ruin AoS AGAIN

[@jamesstamper9342]

rip tzeentch -_- hate gw

[@kistefriends6376]

? why , Dinos with Laser canons ?

[@Sasa0mg]

Jeeze I really do not want to fight Kroak lol, barely wanna fight a regular slann. These are going to be a nightmare. It makes me sad soulblight doesn't have access to arkhan, there is no way kroak doesn't just shut down the whole army, and those mortal wounds would just delete Nagash.