BBSHD vs. BBS02: Which Motor should you choose?

[@mick2d2]

I swapped from a BBS02 to a BBSHD on the same bike. I ran the BBS02 on a 48V battery and the BBSHD is running a 52V battery. I've never had the BBSHD cut out in hot weather when climbing steep hills as the BBS02 sometimes did. Big difference in torque (with the 52V battery) and cooling (much bigger fins on the BBSHD). On one particular occasion (small emergency) I had to ride the BBSHD flat out (full throttle) for about an hour and had no problems (other than the battery finally running out!). Very happy with the change.

[@ivanpetrov2280]

You have to try the 02 with 52v instead of 48, i think you will notice again the difference between the battery's. Probably the HD have 19a on 52v , if you tune the 02 on 21a with 48v will be the same power.

[@mick2d2]

@@ivanpetrov2280 Not really. The BBSHD is built for more power than the BBS02. It has better cooling, and more robust electronics. It gets pretty hot where I live in the summer and the BBS02 would overheat sometimes on 48V at 20A (max power). At 52V the BBS02 would be pulling about 25Amps. The BBSHD is pulling nearly 31A at max power on the 52V battery and has never had this problem. I know this because I have run/ran both with the Cycle analyst (and still do with the BBSHD). There's no way my BBS02 would have handled 31Amps. The BBSHD controller is reliable and runs coolish at 60V unlike the BBS02, and the 52V battery is at 58.8V fully charged. I'm not knocking the BBS02! I think it is a great piece of kit. My brother-in-law is still running my old motor, seven years later, but it does have it's limitations.

[@ivanpetrov2280]

@@mick2d2 i can't disagree with that what you say. The HD is upgrade from 02B. Have to be better 😉. But i am little confused with that what you say about the A, i mean from 48v can take 20a from 52v can have 25A. I think the Voltage don't play of what A you can take from the motor. I set up my controller to 25A 2 days ago with 48V pack (54.6V fully charged but faster drop in the first few miles) anyway 48V and 52V pack can play role of the end result which is Watts i think. Multiplying A*V=W. More V more W on the end. So 25A*48*(standard pack)= 1200w And 25A*52v(standard pack)=1300w Af course when they are fully charge is even a bit more. I still not experiencing any overheat but i live in UK. I make my build in April , here is average temp from 20 to 25C* in the summer. Not like my country 45C this year 😱

[@mick2d2]

@@ivanpetrov2280 I was checking back on the info for my BBS02. Mine was the 500W 20A version, and like I said did have some problems with heat in the summer if you ran it maxed out, especially up hill. It is often 35 degrees here then. There is also a 750W BBS02 which as you say is at 25A. I imagine this one has a stronger controller and perhaps a higher volt limit.

[@ivanpetrov2280]

@@mick2d2 i think that's why my model end with 02B, BBS02B. 750w 25A is the max i think. But i still don't know what voltage can handle. Someones says that the voltage can't hurt the motor at all. Maybe hundreds of voltage can do, but from 48 to 72v i think is possible 🤔

[@ivalterbaptista2305]

Went with a BBS02 with a 52v battery. So far not missing the extra 10% power from the HD. BBS02 has plenty of power for me (200lbs) and my 35 lbs 2.5 year old son riding in the back.

[@goodboy1269]

I totally endorse the Bafang BBS02 Motor. Johnny Ebike makes some badass bicycles. I wouldn't ride anything else personally. When it came to installing the motor it was a breeze. However my main recommendation make sure all of the equipment other than the motor is functioning properly. Just get a good bike where everything works good and upgrade it with a mid drive. Thanks Johnny! 🤙🏽🤙🏽

[@budwhite9781]

The one huge plus with the BBSHD is that you can easily slap on a Ludicrous controller or ASI BAC 855 kit and get a 2500 to 3500 watt peak with as little as a half an hour of install. Great video. Cheers.

[@kalani245]

Thank God someone other than me gets it......

[@aurelienyonrac]

Noob in awe 🙀

[@tavi7]

But why do that, does it make it any more efficient or are there any other benefits other than just higher speed?

[@karl_toffel]

@@tavi7 the speeeed all bout speeeeeed! And probably die quicker 🤪

[@FC2ESWS]

Wouldn't you kill that motor though? That's alot of power lol. Like no way you can sustain that for more than a few seconds right?

[@rdkuless]

I like the BBSHD better because it is serviceable.. You can replace the reduction gear and or the freewheel without using expensive specialized tools.. The BBSHD also runs cooler.. (of course, i use a 30T chainring to keep it spinning faster and that keeps the motor from overheating.)

[@greveeen]

Would you say a 30T is better then like a 42t? 30T sounds so small wouldn’t that make ridiculous to peddle if you wanted it as a commuter ?

[@rdkuless]

@@greveeen it depends on your objective.. I use the 30T narrow/wide chainring because i want my motor to spin fast.. A fast spin is a cool spinning motor, (over heating will happen if gets lugged down).. I have a recumbent etrike.. equipped with a Bafang HD, Rohloff to make it possible to get the right ratio of torque to gear ratio and keep the motor spinning fast. I also tow a Surly TED trailer that holds up to 250lbs.. I need the motor to spin fast so i don't burn it up.. Now if the goal is speed & low torque (not climbing steep hills) with higher range, a larger chain ring could be used. Key is to listen to the motor. if it sounds like it is really struggling and not spinning fast, you can go to a smaller chain ring (or use a lower cog in the cassette).. So match your motor torque, to gear ratio and power level.. (generally, you can get faster turn with high power and low gear) Listen to the motor and don't lug it down.. That is where the expensive problems begin.. I also pack the reduction gear with Black MolyGrease NLGI 2. amazon.com/MOLY-GREASE-Black-Lithium-Multipurpose-Grease/dp/B07CTJ7F6B This helps the motor spin quieter with less friction and increases the longevity of the Bafang mid-drive.. Bafang motors last longer with Black MolyGrease NGLI 2.. (PS. Don't use any other except black, they can damage the plastic reduction gears) there are youtube vids on how to pack the gear with moly...

[@Ari-pw6nu]

You've been a wealth of info! Converting my '16 Marlin 6 and your videos have convinced me on mid-drive. Thanks, bruh!!!

[@wapiti128]

I was looking at buying a 2023 used Marlin. I noticed that the triangle area on those bikes is smaller (at least on the newer ones) and I was wondering if you had trouble finding a battery to fit in that small space. I would like to have a battery with the ability to go long-range.

[@jaygoodwin5502]

I am pretty sure you can get the BBS02 with 100mm or 120mm bottom bracket now. Good video almost convinced that I do not need the HD...

[@dougfurr5217]

Always go with the BBSHD over the BBS02. Every BBS02 owner I have ever met wish for more power after a few months. With the BBSHD, it comes from most places as 750W. SOME companies sell them with the controller modded to output up to 1500W for no additional charge. ONE company sells a controller that is a plug and play, replacement controller( Ludicrous Controller) that allows the BBSHD to output up to 3000W. So for not much more up front cost, you will end up with a bike, or at least the motor/ electronics that will last years. Mine is going on 4 years, and I enjoy it nearly every day. I rather ride it to work than drive.(weather permitting). The first upgrade should be the chainring though. The one it comes with is horrid. Eidit: forgot to mention the 750W stamp is on the MOTOR frame, so no matter which controller you are using the police will still see a 750w stamp. I find if you ride responsibly, there is no need to worry about it. The only way to tell would be to hook it to a laptop with the proper software

[@Yodaandhislightsabre]

Or multiply amps x volts....

[@v1ncen715]

Got two BBS02s, going for 6 and 4 years respectively, and I do not regret them one bit. I do not need more power for PAS only, and I happily save weight and money. I might replace my 48v battery to get a 52v at some point, but this is not even really needed.

[@persiathiest1963]

I'm in the process of choosing between bbs02b and bbshd, but likely will pick the lighter and smaller motor which is bbs02b. Sadly both are illegal here in EU.

[@wapiti128]

the BBSHD has 750 stamped on it? If I buy a 1000w will it have 750 stamped? The cops around here probably don't care but....

[@ashleymalamute]

A 10% power difference is barely noticeable on the flat, especially when you are speed limited. But you really notice that 10% on steep hills.

[@fjanson2468]

I put 847 miles on my HD last summer, rock solid performer. HD is heavy duty, it can take abuse and higher temps and not fry itself. I built it with and Eggrider display so I could custom program its performance, ie, tame the wheelies, chain slams, and be able to switch between street legal and hair on fire with a button press. For me the decision ultimately came down to, go big or go home..

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Exactly! Sounds exactly like my setup, nice!

[@eXTreemator]

It cannot take higher temps and abuse (exactly same temperature). It will fry under high current as well.

[@kimhyunwoo8983]

@@eXTreematornah my friend has been running his at 72v 2600w for about 2 years now. Hell there are some people who run it at like 4000w and the only change is a gear replacement to handle the heat.

[@starslinger8798]

I've converted a Trek 7.5fx w bbs02b lunar hot rod settings but at 18 amps. It's flawless. Still gets me up hills. Done 2.5k since April. I've got a second bike ready, Giant Escape. Think I will do another bbs02b. Lots say bbshd is overkill on the drive train.

[@mateii99]

what battery you got?

[@1Tane55]

Depends on how much you ride and how hard you push the motor Yes the HD would be recommended for more experienced riders and for those who push the motor harder

[@starslinger8798]

Update... I went ahead and put a bbshd on a kona hardtail and i much prefer the extra robustness and amps of the motor. Defo recommend to heavier riders. My bbs02 didn't feel stable at 25A so had to run 18A. The bbshd takes 30A no problem all day.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

Good video & sound advice. Only thing to add is the BBSHD is probably more reliable if you're throttle happy &/or don't use the gears properly. I love & used both motors between my city-bike & mtb.

[@shimes424]

"sound advice" - was that a joke?

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

@@shimes424 No, but I wish I could say yes;)

[@timiditta70]

and who do you prefer between bbs02 o bbshd?

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

@@timiditta70 Depends on how you want to ride. I'd say the 02 is more than enough motor if you pedal & use gears properly. If you prefer a moped like ride or deal with mountains go for the HD.

[@timiditta70]

@@michaelsprinzeles4022 but is the bbs02 sturdy? I would combine it with 20ah battery and 750c bluetooth display what do you think? but the bbshd intrigues me because if I want to go to the mountains it has more power and I have heard that it is also more reliable than the bbs02. but the bbshd you can change the parameters to be softe

[@goinawol9447]

Thanks! Helped me make my decision in a no BS way. Very great video as always

[@skullparty7638]

I have bought two of the bbs02b and two super high quality 48v batteries, and I have done my research the bbs02b comes at a stock 24 amps well at least the two I bought. I ended up getting a programming cable, and setting my motor to 20 amps. They recommend 18 amps for longer battery life but the research I have done says they aren't designed to be ran at 25 amps due to the cooling of the controller. The bbshd can't be set to anything under 30 amps, but is a solid 30 amps stock.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

🧐 the HD can definitely be set to less than 30 amps. Some even come programmed at 28. All good ideas on programming the BBS02 though. If can stand to lose some power it’ll last FOREVER

[@joelfiat147]

I set mine 750w to work on 21Amp, it's 1000w on the road

[@skullparty7638]

@@JohnnyNerdOut I have over 600 miles on both my bbs02's and 20-22 amps has been safe just keep them greased.

[@skullparty7638]

Finally got a bbshd and put it on a fat bike man it's wicked fast 36t front chainring with the stock 14-28 7 speed and I can use all 7 gears.

[@yj8471]

@@JohnnyNerdOut you can fit the HD controller to the 02 on 52v and 30amps it runs fine,also I fitted the BAC855 controller to my 02 2600w 3000w peak 1500 miles it runs smooth as silk almost silent, a lot bullshit about what you can and can't do with the 02 ..

[@MHH3180]

With an 850c or 860c you can lower the amperage allowed on the HD to make it street legal (dealers have to consider this). I would like the extra heavy duty of the HD.

[@ivanpetrov2280]

I have 02b with p850c , i don't have that option, but i did it with programing cable 😀

[@dennisyoung4631]

Have the 860c. Will be fitting it in the next few days, as part of the current build.

[@johnbehm9223]

Johnny, I've only discovered your videos today - I've enjoyed the ones I've watched, and I'm grateful to you for your straight to-the-point talking. Now, I'm here with questions. I am in the middle of converting a 20-year old Worksman Industrial Mover Trike to a mid-drive motor. I'm in Britain, so have met some difficulties, but I've successfully adapted the BB from the original Ashtabula to the appropriate BSA sizing. I've engineered a solution to the fact that the Worksman front-hub brake cable is of a specification unknown here. I've swapped the drive axle so that drive is delivered to the left rear, not the right - prior to this swap, turning cross-traffic on quick turns when the right/drive wheel lost contact with the road surface got ... entertaining. I'm poised to replace the solid tires with thorn-proof Schwalbe pneumatic tires. There are still a couple questions to which I am trying to find answers, which seem not to have been addressed by anyone in any discussion of e-bike conversions; basically, no one seems to be talking about converting straight-up, stock, delta-pattern cargo trikes, and nobody is talking informatively about cyclist's size and weight in relation to motors. I need clarification on the question of which of the Bafang motors - the BBS02, 500W or 750W, or the BBSHD - will best serve my combination of the Trike's weight, the payload, and my own body weight: I'm 6'2", 66 y.o., huge skeleton and heavily muscled, I weigh about 130 kilos (286 lbs), and I have been cycling continuously for the last 58 years - Coventry Eagle racer or 1990s Ridgeback - although arthritis in my hips and knees is starting to kill my enjoyment beyond a few miles' cycling (the 25 miles I pedaled one day last week left me nearly unable to walk). Also, I am a painter and sculptor - I want to rely less on my 4X4 pickup to get me, my painting equipment, and my canvases out and around, or haul sculpture materials and finished work to and from. My Worksman Trike, with a mid-drive motor, strikes me as an ideal alternative. One further consideration: I have replaced the original one-speed hub with the 'new' but now-discontinued Sturmey-Archer QS-RC5 hub, for trikes and quads, 5 speeds in forward and reverse. I do not want to mount a motor that will strip the gears out of the hub in a few miles, days, or maybe even minutes. Given all these factors, I'm hoping that you might be able to turn my apprehensions and suppositions into some rational assessment. You'll have my gratitude, for what it's worth, and likely that of a few other of us Clydesdales. p.s.: I live between the mountains and the sea, so actual hills are involved in my cycling.

[@tjlovin247]

Go with the HD Considering your weight and cargo My humble opinion.

[@DickForbes]

Really like your videos. As I am in the considering stage of converting my Kona Jake what I "need" vs what I want comes up. I am a 72 yr old with an on again off again knee thigh pain. I want to get the assist to allow me to be miles away from home and not have to gut it out to get back. I also want to continue using my Yak trailer for up to 25 mile round trips to the store at my cottage, good trails. Lots of info on Bafang, not so much on how to choose an option that works and may not be the most pricey. Great Videos and presentation.

[@chaleowin7732]

I don't have a fat bike, but I'm a fat man (6'3 225) so the HD will be my choice. =)

[@larryhunt1853]

Ahhhhhhh, I get it now. HD has a 102mm but the 02 doesn't. Since I'm building a fat bike that has a 120mm bracket, my decision is made for me. Thanks for the clarity on this. HD it is!

[@seetheanimal5867]

I’m building a fat bike with one of these… got the motor the frame and the forks so far and battery. What bout you. Did ya build yours yet bro??

[@larryhunt1853]

@@seetheanimal5867 my frame was a Mongoose Dolomite ALX (from Walmart). I added the BBSHD 120mm and it fit perfectly, no spacers used. I used a 42 tooth Bling Ring (with offset) and it was perfect. I got a rear rack and attached a UPP rack mounted battery to it (24 AH, 52V, LG cells, $600). It plugged right up. The DPC18 display works perfectly as well. I’m very happy with it. I plan to add a higher riser handlebar (6” or so). I did put a Cloud 9 seat on it. I’m going to add Rad Rover fenders when they ever get back in stock. This thing has got lots of power. With 9 levels of PAS, it’s a breeze to ride. I don’t know what the top-end is but suspect around 35 mph. If you need model numbers of parts then I can get them for you next week. My wife really liked it too, so I may tailor it further to her liking.

[@seetheanimal5867]

@@larryhunt1853 wow bro that was pleasantly more than I expected. Yeah part numbers would be AMAZING, thanks a bunch bro!! Haha I’m just trying to get my wife comfortable on our 500w mid drive … awesome she digs your ride bro!! Does she have something to ride with you ?

[@larryhunt1853]

@@seetheanimal5867 My wife has a nice regular Marin MTB that she would pedal/ride while I used my Zero10X or VSETT10+ e-scooters. I never cared much for pedaling a bike. I'd do it, and loved being out on the trail, but that all changed when I got an e-scooter. We mainly ride the KATY trail which is an old 240-mile railroad bed, running from Clinton MO to Machens MO. It is hard-packed lime sand and runs along the Missouri River with bluffs and river bottom crops. There are no hills with old railroad beds, so it's perfect! It's known worldwide too, and we love being there away from the crowds. So last year I decided to get us both e-bikes. I figured my wife would fight it, but I did it anyway. I researched and because we just like to cruise at 12 to 14mph, I selected the Juiced RIP CURRENT S fat tire model, which is a Bafang 750watt rear hub motor with a 20ah battery. We both fell in love with the bikes, and they remain our go-to bikes for cruising long range. She no longer pedals the Marin (lmao!). I added a 20AH UPP battery with a dual-battery hookup to each of the e-bikes and I have no doubts we could go 120 miles if we wanted to. Unfortunately, our butts can only handle about 50 miles (and that's after I added Cloud9 cruiser seats to each bike). With all the stops and gawking at the bluffs and river, the 50 miles is usually a 6-hour adventure. Again, I can't say enough about the Juiced Rip Current S e-bikes. They perform flawlessly and are perfect for what we do (i.e. CRUISE). However, watching Johnny on this channel caught my interest in building a mid-drive. I wondered just how different it would be. So I'm one of those guys that can make ole MacGuyver (TV show) look like a Boy Scout. Give me a few paper clips and some duct tape and I'll build you a Cadillac. So I decided to just build a mid-drive and see how I liked it. It is different, and you need the mindset of a mountain bike gear changer compared to the rear hub motors. But I like it, and my wife really liked it. I plan to make some other modifications but here's what I used: Mongoose Dolomite ALX (Walmart), Bafang BBSHD 1000W with a 42T Bling chainring and a DPC-18 display, and a Bafang gear sensor too. I added a West Biking Carrier Rack to the rear (I had to mount it to the chain and seat stays, as well as the seat tube) and put on a UPP 20AH rack-mounted battery (LG cells, $600, but I didn't use the rack it came with). I put on a Rock Bros bike rack bag that has fold-out bags on the side (Pannier style). I also changed to a mustache-shaped handlebar (Upanbike, retro, 31.8mm x 640mm) but I want something with greater rise. So here's what I noticed: The MDALX (Mongoose Dolomite ALX) does not have front suspension like the JRCS (Juiced Rip Current S). But on the KATY Trail, there's not a great need for suspension. The MDALX is SO MUCH LIGHTER than the JRCS (probably half the weight). So the battery drain will be less. But I can take one of the add-on JRCS UPP batteries and hook it up to the MDALX with a jumper I made. So I have plenty of battery either way. Again, my wife really liked it and the way she sits on it. So we'll see as time goes by which one she'll make her go-to bike. Other things to change are pedals, handlebar riser, and grips. But it did perform flawlessly! I need to check and see if the MDALX has cruise control like the JRCS bikes do. THAT is really a cool feature with the Juiced bikes!!! Cruise Control. I love it!!! Let me know if you have any questions. the MDALX is a still a work in progress!

[@davidanderson6222]

Battery came in first, then motor, and now they have me waiting on frkn brakes and chainring. I WANNA RIDE NOW DARN IT! Lol. Hope it's worth the wait

[@Geoff9001]

bafang bbs02 on a hardtrail was the most fun ive had riding bikes ever. i cant imagine putting a bbshd on a bike unless you are literally climbing mountains because I could go up very steep hills with the bbs02 in low gear (i was 230 lbs then)

[@sigmaoctantis_nz]

If you're running these things on the stock controller you're honestly doing it wrong and yes, you want the BBSHD for the additional power handling. I'm running mine on a Phaserunner and can hit 89 kmh/55 mph on about 4.5 kW with a mountain bike. I imagine you'd get even better results with a road bike and slicker tyres. If you want something that's better to use in pedal assist mode then I would say neither, get the Bafang Ultra. Torque sensing pedal assist is far better than cadence sensing.

[@bkanegson]

Built a few Bafang bikes and can confirm, you are doing a good service, steering people in the right direction with good information. Subscribed! In this case, given the same capacity 52v battery, the BBS-02 might suck a little less power and therefore give a little more range per charge, all other things being equal....?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Absolutely it would. With typical riding a bbs02 will get 10-15% more range I would bet per charge vs the bbshd. Thanks!

[@mclifer]

So it is ok to use a 52v battery on BBS-02 750?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@mclifer yes. I use 52v on all my conversions

[@1Tane55]

you can adjust the power to get more miles or more speed, so the HD could get the same mileage as the 202.

[@musicteacheremmar]

Hello Johnny been eyeing the BBS02. I saw a youtube video about his BBSHD that pedalling it manually is a lot harder than a natural bike . is the BBS02 the same? was planning to convert to mid-drive coz I heard pedalling on a mid-drive feels more natural than hub motors

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

I’d say it adds 5-10% resistance. A mid drive is definitely more natural feeling than a hub

[@1Tane55]

Yes go with the HD you will be glad you did.

[@krehlcook406]

Thanks for great video!, just finished bbs02 build, love it!

[@artofdisguy3401]

Cheers, watched a couple of your vids👍 Brilliant info and how it was put forth Bafang 02 for my Devinci MTB

[@greggerman7908]

I'm 62 at the most 300lbs. I'm surrounded by gravel roads with hills. Will an e bike work for me. I also have copd. I know I need more exercise.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes! Get on one ASAP. Check out Day6 bikes

[@fjanson2468]

I'm 66 and 185. Built a BBSHD on a mountain bike frame. I had not ridden a bike since being station in Tailand in the 70s. My first ride was 6 miles to feel out the ebike, legs trembled for 15 min after. By the end of summer I was going 25 miles couple times a week and ready to mow the lawn after. Do it, your body will thank you. The throttle with be a crutch until you dont need it.

[@joshuaworth243]

Very helpful video do you think there are any advantages with bikepacking in mind or are they about the same?

[@pnaude240744]

I am about to embark on a hobby/project to convert mtbs for some friends to eBikes using Bafang mid motor kits. At 77 years I still enjoy my first generation (old) Specialized LEVO as it extended my riding age for by 10 years. At the current prices for branded eBikes it is becoming more practical to look at conversion kits using conventional mountain bikes. Having watched so many KZbin videos, including yours, I have decided to go with Bafang mid motor kit and need some advice as to the makeup of the components of the kit, based on the following selection criteria. Uncomplicated & basic, reasonable cost, reliable and low risk installation. I live in South Africa, far from everything and expensive to import any products and I therefore need a low risk solution with a high degree of reliability. Please suggest/ recommended all the components of such a basic conversion kit! Motor/battery/controller/display. I want it to be a success and convert many more bikes for friends and family (both 26” and 29”) wheels. BBS02/750W/48V\24Amps/P850???. Thanks are there any reputable distributors of Bafang in the UK?

[@seetheanimal5867]

Did it work out. Did you build an Ebike bro???

[@pnaude240744]

@@seetheanimal5867 Thanks for asking. I did build an eBike for my wife using SwytchBike front hub kit on a Schwinn 26 inch Beach Cruiser. It was fun and very successful due to the simplicity of the build. I bought 2 kits and will use the second one to convert a standard 26 inch full suspension mtb for myself.

[@theejoeylee]

Im in Wisconsin, alot of steep-shortish hills. BBSHD just for longevity

[@hippynurd]

I just assumed that I needed the HD, since I had the 02, but honestly, the 02 gets me up this stupid hill at like 10mph, and I really cant complain

[@kevwalton272]

hi running 3 bikes with bbso2 750 have you had any controller failures? even with the upgraded mosfets ive had 3 in last few years. great channel btw

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

I may have seen 1 controller fail in the last4-5 years. Thanks!

[@kevwalton272]

thanks

[@capt.lennymiller6524]

My legs tell me it's harder to pedal a trike than a conventional bike. would a BBS02 work fine? Thanks for all your responses.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Ya a lot of people use the bbs02 on trikes

[@davidparker2173]

I see one can get a 36 tooth sprocket with a 1000 watt at your place. Thumbs up man. I wonder what the battery difference is between the two wattages if one drive the same? Till then, I will be picking up on what you sell. I would like smart componentry that assists saving energy. Hopefully, simplistic, basic black, and easy to use.

[@arieswaters]

June 6 2021 heck now I'm wishing maybe I would have saved the $210 Johnny is presently finishing my Diamondback bike right now and when he asked me which motor I had not done this research Migos do want the O2 or the big motor you want the biggest one and I said heck yeah

[@bassw1758]

I think the O2 is the way be because it's a little less destructive on the drivetrain. And it makes no sense to put a shd on a fat tire bike because they can't compete with the new thousand watt bafang fat tire hub motors. The only reason to go with the shd is if top speed is your main concern.

[@thankmelater1254]

excellent summation. thank you!

[@jameswilson2815]

Definitely helps. Thanks for all the help. Aloha

[@Hubjeep]

Thank you! I plan to go with the 02 on my Fuji Jari. My friend said to go 46 tooth gear. Has supply chain issues (OCT 2021) reduced availability or increased the price?

[@1Tane55]

I have a 202 and went with the 52T for top end speed with the 7 speed cassette I still can manage very steep hills

[@Hubjeep]

@@1Tane55 Thanks. My bike has an 11 speed cassette, biggest is very big so a bigger tooth at the motor shouldn't be a problem.

[@markkus1134]

The HD is The heavy duty model it’s overbuilt and more aftermarket parts available for the HD it’s just built better from what I see

[@arieswaters]

So the HD is a better version of the O2 like new and improved??. But I'm here in Johnny's say is that it's not really worth the money I guess? To pay the extra for the HD over the O2?

[@symostyle]

BBS02 comes also with 100,120mm bottom bracket

[@shipoffools2183]

How much noise do mid drive make? Watching some video they are really loud and would bring attention to you, my hub drive is whisper quiet but I really like the idea of running the motor through the gears.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Bafang is also whisper quiet. Can’t comment on other mid drives.

[@rudolphvanthoff1391]

We all know a lot of factors affect performance. If you rode your wife’s bike would you be able to keep up with her on your bike? That’s more pertinent. Since I dare say you weigh more than she does. Maybe the extra performance outweighs the weight difference? Or does it just give a bit more grunt uphill?

[@SergeyPRKL]

Hey. I got an old nice regular bike with no gears, just pedal brakes. What motor to choose then? I don't really want a hubmotor....

[@brianbassett4379]

The difference is obvious when you need to rebuild or repair the motor. The HD is leaps and bounds above the 02. BaFang took all the faults of every 02 model and built a much better motor in the HD.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

True. Hopefully many people never need to repair either🤞

[@brianbassett4379]

@@JohnnyNerdOut If you really think that then you haven't put 20 or 30 thousand miles on one. Stay safe.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@brianbassett4379 I’ve repaired both versions on my personal bikes unfortunately. But the average weekend rider probably won’t ever have to🤞

[@brianbassett4379]

@@JohnnyNerdOut The average weekend rider will buy some $1000 ebike off Amazon or Alibaba not try to build their own... unfortunately. Why? Because they get so much bullshit from people on KZbin trying to score some spare change. Stay safe.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@brianbassett4379 exactly! Literally what got me off my ass to start making videos. Anger is a great motivator. When I see someone selling crap, it drives me nuts. I know I don’t hit all the checkboxes with my vids but I’m trying to get better with each one. Ebikes are amazing when done right. Unfortunately there are sales people out there selling Ebikes that suck. And people that don’t know any better hyping them up.

[@ufoclips1]

Just subbed!,thanks for the heads up sir!,i`m in the market for a motor for my Specialized Rockhopper 29 sport,i was convinced i wanted a mid drive,now i`m not as sure,what would Johnny do?

[@aurelienlux]

I'm in Europe so in residential and city areas I will be following the regulations and sticking to 250w continuous/500w peak/25kmh (15.5mph), however when out of built up areas and riding through forest paths and bike paths in rural areas I would like to go up to 40-45kmh (~25-28mph) and be able to climb hills that are both quite steep and also fairly long. I am also quite heavy at around 95kg (~210lbs). With either a 48v or 52v battery pack, should I go for the bbs02, possibly with a heatsink, or a bbshd in your opinion?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

You’d be fine with a bbs02 IMO. sounds like it would fit your bill nicely

[@c0llision771]

not a lawyer, but my understanding is when it comes to EU law, what matters is the maximum continuous rated power, not the output. That means if you have a 750w watt motor, even if you limit it to 250w using software, it is not legal, so neither BBS02 or BBSHD are legal under the EU law. There is also technically no legal limit on peak power under the EU definition. But in my city, police don't pay nearly any attention to cyclists, nor are they very aware of the ebike laws, so chances of getting caught are slim, and getting charged are even slimmer. Plus EU law != national law, so there may be technical issues you could fight if you were caught especially if there is not yet ebike specific laws in your country. But if you do decide to break the law, my advice is expect the worst to happen, which in my case would be being charged with no road tax, insurance or inspection.

[@aurelienlux]

@@c0llision771 Yeah I'm aware that motors sold with the option to do more than 250w/25kmh are technically still illegal even if limited down (which is ridiculous as all motors are like this as clearly demonstrated by the speed unlock hacks, the only difference is that a registered company has certified them as limited to 250w). But if I use it limited to 250w/25kmh (for example using the dual road mode button on the eggrider v2 display) then the risk of getting checked is close to null since I wouldn't visibly be breaking the law. Also a few sellers sell "250w" certificate stickers which can help in case of a visual inspection. I'm also planning to use a stealthy throttle, and not the stock one, and not use it inside the city/built up areas either as they are also technically banned. So outwardly it will look fully legal when I'm in areas where police may be around and where driving slower is the responsible thing to do anyway.

[@iamrocketray]

@@aurelienlux I'm in the same boat, i want to upgrade my 250 watt BBSo1b, I have never been stopped in 3 years of riding it and I'm an old fart so they expect me to be legal(how little they know lol) and if I'm going up to 750 watt, i might as well go the whole hog and get a BBSHD and tune it to act like the 250 watt in 1/2/ and 3.

[@wastedWizard509]

Eu rules sucks so i break them i ride 3 years on a 1500w rear hub in the netherlands without problems police don't care here if you ride normal and not like a idiot than you wil be fine because 250w and 25 km per hour sucks

[@lukakoritnik365]

Does the bbshd have torque sensing pedal assist or cadence sensing? Excelent content man! Keep on!

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Cadence. Thanks!

[@Sigmaruler0199]

Hello guys I need some help, I want to get a Bufang for my 2019 Trek roscoe 7 size M and I dont know whether I should get the HD or 02 Will they both work on my bike? and how do I measure the bottom bracket?

[@CM-1723]

Disclaimer : Don't listen to the LAW

[@markweatherall7437]

Hey mate, I purchased a bbshd kit during our covid lockdown here in UK. Its still in the box untouched due to work commitments. I've also got a nice new Cube Aim hardtail 29er waiting to be built very soon. I'm now looking for a downtube battery and seen a Samsung cells 48v. My question - is a 48v battery compatible to use with the bbshd or a 52v? What differences would I notice between a 48v & 52v please, thank you.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Both will work with the BBSHD. 52v will net you about 120 extra watts at a fully charged battery.

[@niceboy761]

Mark I'm uk just thought I'll ask were did you get your motor from pal

[@cognac8297]

I love these legal kits. And bafang let us regulate our kits sometimes. Like my car and my Ebike has power and i see the speed limit signs ☢️.

[@gamerdad8531]

I really want a mid drive again buy I've 72v 3300w battery . If I went easy on the motor with either one do think they would last long for a short time . Or just stick with a hub motor

[@jaycolife2314]

Good videos ! Thanks for the info .. I’m hooked . I’m saving up for a motor

[@lokz9632]

One question about BBS02. I like to pedal (sport). I read it is better to go with 36v than 48v because it accelerates slower so you preserve thar cycling feeling although it does not have torque sensor. I am thinking 500W, 36V battery 17.5A. What do you think about that combo?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Not sure about that. I’d go 48v and just program it down. Then you can always reprogram it to have more power later if wanted

[@chartphred1]

I'm hoping to be able to afford a basic kit later this year. Need spend as little as possible. Can you please recommend what, in your opinion, is the more reputable Ali Express sellers of the BBSHD? I've been looking, but hard to find any that sell the BBSHD with a 52 v battery. That also offer a range of choices with tools and accessories.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

My best seller is the BBS02 by far. I cant recommend sellers on Aliexpress. Too risky.

[@Haasinger]

I recently bought 2 HDs and restriced them to 25kph and 27Amps right after. Why? I wanted more reliability. Its much safer to run a HD at 75% then a 02 on 100%.

[@Nodeagent]

Is there a cheaper motor you’d recommend that would still be great for pedal assist?

[@stevenitzschke5714]

Will the power Drain in the winter time?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes. By about 15%

[@thatbikerdude1378]

Thanks! That was very helpful.

[@chrishansen530]

Thanks again, you just saved me a couple of hundies!!!

[@thomasjurd172]

But guys are putting phaserunners and puting 2 times the power on the hd . Shame there wasnt a plug an play for the 25amp controller .

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

The BBS02 would melt with double the power. The HD can handle it better.

[@thomasjurd172]

@@JohnnyNerdOut i would like to be able to do the wirein on the 25 anp grin phase ! But gettin the plugs like the one they do for the bbshd would be nice as the bbso2 still has a iffy controller

[@sigmaoctantis_nz]

I have the Phaserunner on a BBSHD at 4.5kW. I think that's 4.5 times the stock rating?

[@KingdomUploader]

Do you HAVE to peddle with a mid frame motor? Basically I'm so disabled that I shouldn't be on a bike at all, so I'd need to be peddling very little if any. Also, does the mid frame motor require a rear cassette and gear speeds? Could I go with a single speed bike? Thank you

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

No you don’t need to pedal. The kits come with a throttle. It doesn’t have to be a multi speed bike, although you will really tap into the benefits of a mid drive if you use multiple speeds

[@johnbolt665]

When I ride up town on my BBSHD because of the steepness of the hill I'm maxed out pas 9 and the bottom gear anything less and I would be pushing!

[@tobyroberts2293]

Have you done any videos using the tongsheng tsdz2? Tempted to get one for a commuter as I like the idea of a torque sensor

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

I haven’t but I should

[@MHH3180]

I did 48 last year. Please feel free to contact me on FB messenger.

[@farooqishify]

How do I figure the dimensions of my bottom bracket on a road bike that I want to install BBSO2. Do I need a whip out my vernier caliper or what. Please advise?

[@davidgoodwin9594]

Hi Johnny, I am interested in buiding a mid drive ebike. I have an old Giant Cypress in fairly good condition and would like to know if it can handle a conversion to a mid drive - I'm thinking a Bosch 4. Any advice?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Bosch 4? Link? Yes the bike if fine for a conversion

[@snap-off5383]

Any ideas/stories/experience with running a 1000Watt motor when the limit is 750? What do the cite you for? Its civil not criminal right? Have you heard anyone getting speeding tickets in states that limit them to ~20mph?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Haven’t heard of anyone getting in trouble yet. Although I bet it would be similar to riding around on an unlicensed 100cc dirt bike around town. Small fine

[@That-Ninja]

DO IT !

[@TK-OK]

Just FYI California Ebike makes BBS02 for fat bikes in 100 &. 120mm. Not cost effective in my opinion to the HD but available

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes, but it’s an aftermarket add on. I dont have experience with that product but I doubt Doug would sell a bad product.

[@aimokan]

@JohnnyNerdOut I'm looking at doing a conversion (2012 26" hardtail with 9 gears). Would a BBS02 be enough to take into forest fireroads? The hills here are about 1000-1500ft tall, and the longest distance I would ever do is 40-50miles. Most likely the distances will be half that. Thinking of a 48V 17.5Amph battery. Thanks!!!

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes it should

[@aimokan]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Thanks! I'm pretty set on that now.

[@vee6411]

Hey man, I believe my BB is 83mm. Its an 08 rocky mountain DH bike. Would I have to go with the HD?

[@jolive3743]

hey Johnny. I'm choosing the parts for a long-distance Enduro build for Bikepacking the World (150 mile range). I also wanna use Belt-drive and a Rholoff style changer for low maintenance. With weight being paramount, what set-up would you go with. Thanks mate, cool channel.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Belt would be best on paper. Personally I’d probably go IGH or traditional in case of repair or maintenance. It can be next to impossible getting service for a belt drive if you’re in some remote areas. Maybe just something to keep in mind. It might not be an issue for you though.

[@jolive3743]

@@JohnnyNerdOut no mate, i spent years doing maybe a quarter of the planet on a 90's Raleigh Amazon. I figured i would build one of these Stealth style bikes, so it'll still end up around 40 kilo's, just wondered as they now make joinable Belts. Thanks for getting back to me mate.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Ya, I guess if you kept an extra belt or two on you, you’d be 👍

[@ajaychettiar9302]

Thanks for the info 😀 I have a bike trailer to pull my kids behind me. Do you recommend the 02 or HD? Also can I regulate it down to 500w, cause in canada that’s the limit.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes you can program it down to pull 500w max. Although the motor will be stamped with how it comes capable from the factory if you go that way.

[@alphabuilders]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Its a sticker not stamped in...

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@alphabuilders bafang stamps their motors

[@adamt3332]

@@alphabuilders look at the bottom of the motor there is model , W and serial

[@al-du6lb]

Do they get the same amount of range? I would think the smaller motor would be slightly more economical. true?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes, I would agree.

[@savasorin8206]

I've been looking for this this info to convert my mountain bike into a Ebike, thanks for your info 🙏👏👏👏one more question ,I decided to go with a BBS02 , what kind of battery I can buy to utilize the entire power of the bbs02 motor? Thank you

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

52v is the maximum voltage battery it can take

[@thomasjurd4144]

O just upgraded wih HD as the bbso2 if over 500w will just over heat . On picking up the BbsHD it just felt better made an solid and can take 2800w . Do not buy the bbso2 if you want one to last many years the exrtra 100 is worth it

[@unstoppablezone4980]

I want to get the Bafang motor from Amazon...but Amazon won't ship the battery to Taiwan where I live...probably airline regulations. Any suggestions?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Try Em3ev

[@oddsandbods]

Are both motors programable using the USB lead and laptop..?

[@FC2ESWS]

What's the difference between the BBSHD G320.750 and G320.1000? Is it just the programming or is the controller different?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

The 750 is the bbs02

[@briansmythe3219]

Im gonna get the 02 in a fornight , I had too save up I would rather the HD but a Bit Expencive here In Australia , I will prolly kick Myself In a Few Months That I didn"t save up more , But For What Im Gonna Use it for The 02 Should be fine

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

02 is a great motor as well 👍

[@andrewstephens3005]

Hi John, i have a 48v battery from a previous bike. Can i put a BBSHD to it or it need a 52v. cheers

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

48v or 52v will work with a BBSHD

[@Monstah7]

Good onya bloke, this was just what i was looking for.. had my BBS02 for 5yrs now i think, heard about the HD releasing about 1-2 months after i purchased it and was a bit miffed about it, but been happy enough.. after seein' this, as much as i'd like to upgrade, i'll save my money, so thanks..

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Ya, the 02 is a great motor!

[@melanatedmantra6607]

@@JohnnyNerdOut I have a 500 watt rear hub motor on my bike which it struggles to climb hills. Would i be able to fit a 500 watt mid drive motor to it running off the same battery as a dual motor?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@melanatedmantra6607 possibly as long as your battery can handle the strain. But it probably should

[@josephcornwell3578]

Good. Now, how about a piece on the different Bafang displays? You seem to prefer the 500c. How about the DPC-18, or the C961, or something else? Pros & cons? I enjoy your just the facts, straight to the point videos, thanks.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Great idea! Thanks!

[@thomasjurd172]

965 display is utter crap . The battery bars are not acurate at all and not watt display . I got the p850 which is really much better an you know if your needing to go down a gear and you can have amps or watts showing

[@kosztaz87]

What I can tell you from experience is that the DPC-14 (I think it's called 850C as well) colour display is an absolute piece of crap. It's NOT rainproof, which is an absolute joke, as it's a piece of equipment, that is meant to be used outdoor. It will survive smaller rains, but if you keep using it in wet conditions (I used it in the UK all year round, delivering stuff on bicycle) it will eventually fail. One completely died on me after a couple of heavy rains, and a second one started to collect condensed water behind the screen as well, so knowing what was about to come, I quickly took that one down, and put it on my mother's ebike (she only uses it occasionally, and never in rain). So luckily I managed to keep that second one running, but I reckon an other 1 hour in the rain would have meant an other dead unit. It's also not nearly as easy to see in bright sunlight as the cheaper black and white displays, as the backlight has to overpower the sunlight. Also the input registration when pushing the up or down buttons is a lot more sluggish compared to the cheaper C965 (black and white) display, where the change is instant. It can get annoying depending on user. Honestly the only two advantages it has over the mentioned cheaper display are, that it has a more correct battery level indicator (still far from perfect though, the displayed percentage can be quite a bit off from the real value, depending on how hard you have been draining the battery), and the physical button assembly is connected through a connector, so it can be replaced if it happens to die (on the C965 it's hard wired with no way of replacing it separately). So I can honestly say the cheaper C965 display is better (and cheaper!!!) in every respect.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@kosztaz87 well said. I’ve never liked the dpc 14 either

[@thomasjurd172]

@@kosztaz87 i have used my p850c all winter . Just chinnese gear is hit an miss an bad qc . My bbso2b 48v750w controller blew the 1st 100 miles so i was going 16 miles each way an up to 32mph for long periods . Put a temp probe in now but cant beleive guys were paying over £900 a motor 5 yrs ago. I will buy a bbshd an a grin controller this summer so i have 2 bikes .

[@pazuso]

How about 500W 36V BBS02? Is it a big difference from the 750W 48V? For a road/touring bike and a 145lbs rider

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

You would probably notice it in the low end torque. I would not consider getting it unless you need a 36v system for some reason. Get the 48v and program it to your liking. 👌

[@paska68]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Can I program bbs02 to have less torque minimize the chain and cassette wear? I don't have crazy steep hills here so no need for all that torque. You make great videos thanks!

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@paska68 yes you can. Just need the programming cable

[@bretburt7317]

Would it be OK to use DeWalt 60V batteries to power the HD. Been wanting to do this for awhile now but wanted to use the batteries I already have. I'm definitely not an engineer but I can follow directions! There are adapters out there now (amazon, ebay, etc.) so the wiring is simplified.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

As long as the fully charged voltage doesn’t go above 60v. Otherwise you’ll trip the over voltage system. Or you can upgrade the controller to handle more voltage

[@victoria653]

Thanks!

[@adamk6768]

Building one for my wife to pull a children’s chariot up the mountain we live on. 6-7% paved grade for about 1 km (0.6 miles), other than that mostly flat. Gets quite hot where we live too. Rider weight is 125lbs and chariot with kids will be 50-130lbs (as they grow). BBS02 or BBSHD? (She’s a bit afraid of having too much power...) Thanks!! Ps- no one ever talks about pulling a chariot or trailer. Would be a great video.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Either motor will work with the right gearing.

[@superwag634]

To maintain speed up a 7% grade with a trailer, adult rider, kids and bike weight, assume total weight 350 pounds. 750w continuous power will give you an uphill speed of approx 19 km/h or 11-12 miles per hour. 1000w continuous power would give you a speed of 24kmh or 15 mph up the same hill. But your battery will need to be able to supply the 20 amps at 48-52V for the 3 minutes it takes to climb the hill and not overheat the motor or battery itself

[@yj8471]

BBS 02 with BAC 855 controller awesome .

[@raymv9409]

could you explain how to wire the controller to the motor? im thinking of performing this mod but would like to get a confirmed wiring diagram that works before i pull the trigger on one

[@yj8471]

@@raymv9409 The kit comes with the wiring loom, you only have to change the phase wire connectors on the motor from round bullet type to the female 2.5mm spade type, I suggest you solder them, it's easy to do pull the trigger ..

[@DanielASchaeffer]

Johnny, got any opinion about Bafang vs Tongsheng TSDZ2?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Unless you are absolutely obsessed with getting torque sensing, Bafang is the way to go.

[@DanielASchaeffer]

@@JohnnyNerdOut I do want torque sensing but in other videos you've alluded to a Bafang Ultra having torque sensing and also that you can adjust Bafang's cadence parameters to give something close to torque sensing. Is Bafang that much more reliable? Or is it the higher power you like?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@DanielASchaeffer correct. Only the ultra isn’t available for conversions ☹️

[@lokz9632]

Torque sensing - none on both. What a shame

[@kaikart123]

build your own

[@skaybaltimore]

Nice video and informative comments. Could you please state which bikes you and your wife ride? That would be a big help in terms of helping me chart the course of a very good E-bike conversion project. Thanks in advance.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

We both ride converted Benno Carryon cargo bikes 😀

[@skaybaltimore]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Cool. Thanks. (I went to the Benno site and didn't see the Carry On listed.) Do you have any feelings about the Trek Marlin 6? For $800 new it seems to have a good layout and decent components for a BBSHD conversion.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@skaybaltimore those are great candidate bikes IMO

[@skaybaltimore]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Thanks. It's somewhat ironic -- I was seriously considering the Roscoe, which is clearly a "better" bike than the Marlin. (The 27.5 vs 29 wheels are better for the way I ride, as you talked about in your Roscoe conversion video.) But the choices of tires are a little more limited with the 27.5 (they really only offer knobby tires). So it was back to the Marlin because they come with 29ers in my size (M) which offer a few slick road tires. And with the motor/conversion I really don't need all of the fancy stuff that comes on the Roscoe -- just a good solid bike. And I found a site that is selling the 2019 Marlin 6 for $275. That's a steal. I just wish you lived over here on the East Coast for the conversion. (UPDATE: When it seems to good to be true, it's false. That "site" selling the Marlin 6 for $275 is a scam. Back to the drawing board.)

[@theokingshango]

Yes

[@JamesSchenck]

So is the BBSHD the only real option for a mid-drive Fat bike conversion?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

In the bafang lineup yes. Cyc or cyclone are other brands

[@JamesSchenck]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Thanks! I will check them out. Keep up the great content!

[@1Tane55]

noticed that the HD has bigger bearings might mean longer durability

[@thefrub]

Buy the 1000w motor and slap a 750w sticker on the side to make it legal

[@truthministries77]

Yes

[@melvinbelcher7606]

Thanks

[@LarryRichelli]

Hey Johnny, I love your videos but you are not scandalous in the least. In fact, you might be one of the least scandalous guys on youtube. Please do a build with and ASI BAC855 on a BBSHD. That would be so cool.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Thanks! Ya I need to 😀

[@truthministries77]

Anyone know what size rhe bottom bracket is on the viribus 7 speed trike?

[@whiskeykilmer1866]

Like many laws in Kalifornia, their e-bike laws are asinine. Must be less than 750w?

[@carlosvazquez4842]

Is BBSO2 and BBS02B the same?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

The “b” is the newer version that I believe started around 2018. Every bbs02 sold currently is the bbs02b