Behringer Poly D vs Minimoog: The definitive comparison, review and demo

[@showlabor]

Great video, as always, thank you! For the level issue: By the specs/manual the Behringer Model D has a max. output level of 0 dBu while the Poly D only has -16 dBu which nicelly matches your observed output level. So this is not an issue with your Poly D. I could imagine that they needed to lower the output level so they could put in the chorus which - in its pedal form - is infamous for being easily overdriven by a line level instrument.

[@StarskyCarr]

Aha.... excellent!! Thanks

[@StarskyCarr]

Pinned btw very useful for everyone to know. The manual wasn’t available when I made the video. I wish I’d waited a bit longer now!!

[@thebasilisk3504]

Smart.

[@fuckindork]

Great video and great comment. I was thinking about this attribute of the synth and was wondering if the lower output would help it play nicer with guitar pedals

[@criqdekuyper9259]

showlabor run a cable from the phones output into the audio input, then dial away. Those 16dB are back.

[@dez1989]

I've got 2 Minimoog Voyager synths and a Behringer Poly D. The sounds of both moogs have minor differences. They're analog! They will never be exactly the same! When I play the Behringer Poly D, once again, such a very slight difference however they are all in that beautiful ballpark! If you didn't see which one I was playing at any given time, you would never know exactly which one I am playing! I had 3 of my friends come over to listen to all 3. Two of them were so darned positive that they would know the Moogs from the Poly-D. The other friend was more realistic. I had all 3 set up in one room and the main speakers were in with my friends. The 2 friends started to get quite annoyed. They swore I was playing just the Moogs and that I didn't touch the Poly-D. I then had my friend who was unsure from the get go come in with me to video with his camera. He couldn't believe what he was seeing! I was playing the Poly-D 2/3'rd of the time and the other 2 had such a hard time believing that the synth I could get used for about 600.00 fooled the 2 other friends thinking that my Electric Blue Minimoog Voyager that is going for a little over 4000.00 around here and the standard, earlier version of the Minimoog Voyager which fetches a little under 4000.00 all sounded so great next to each other with no real discernable difference! So every time I hear a cork sniffer bash Behringer, I have to laugh! I can't wait for the UB-XA, The Pro -8 or 16, the Jupiter 8 and the Yamaha CS80! I can't wait to play the real Oberheim next to the Behringer UB-XA. I Doubt my 2 friends will rethink how they judge those 2 beasts side by side! I might end up selling one or 2 of my expensive synths. I won't want to take the chance of taking them out and get damaged or stolen. I'll have the same sounds and I could use the extra cash to get myself something new and different like the Matrix Brute or the Poly Brute.

[@SaxyCalzone]

How are the keys on the Poly D?

[@dez1989]

@@SaxyCalzone In what way? I've got a few synths, but I can say they are as responsive as my old Korg Poly-61 and my Oberheim Matrix 6. Honestly, it's a darn nice synth. I purchased the Deepmind 12 used first. I liked it so much that I purchased the VC-340. Once again I was impressed so I went with the Poly-D. All 3 work as well as my Rolands, Korgs and my others. No problems, no breakdowns. Yes the quality of my old Oberheims, Moogs and Hammond are great. However how can I complain if my Behringers work well every time I use them? They sound fantastic and haven't failed me yet. That speaks volumes to all the whiners out there who knock them but never even tried one. I am NOT paid by Behringer. I don't work for Behringer. I live in the USA. My only complaint with Behringer is "Where the heck is the UBXA"? I've heard them talk this up for years! Too many excuses! Get it out or shut up about all the other boards we're hearing you prop up! 1 at a time. Get it out like the 3 I own. They are successful and sound fantastic. Move on to the next until that is a success. Then move on down the line.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

I have a Behringer Monopoly and feels good sounds great to Me, quality construction.

[@andrewverran3498]

​@HOLLASOUNDS Poly D , MonoPoly next on the list, Behringer 2600 look like they will be around for a while.. fark you can buy all 3 fir the price of 1 original ..

[@fredrikh9299]

Thanks! Music is art and creativity. These kork sniffers seems so rigid in their perception that it contradicts all likelyhood of creativity. A real musician makes music from tappin on the table.

[@thebasilisk3504]

I was on the fence about the D. Now the poly is out I'm sold. This looks like a solid instrument that can be used in a proper studio. I'm glad they embellished on the original design and didn't cut corners on i/o.

[@ConwayBob]

Thank you, Starsky, for this great comparison/review/demo. The sound is so close that blindfolded one would be hardpressed to detect any difference at all. Surely close enough to suit me. I pre-ordered a Poly D in late December and am still awaiting its arrival. I think it will be worth the wait.

[@bugjobdoofusbrain]

anybody know if it would be possible to mod the poly d’s gain staging?

[@TheArpomni2]

May sound silly and a bit picky, but wish they had done the little strip of wood across top

[@bryanburns9702]

Agreed.

[@TheArpomni2]

@Bernard Sutter come to think of it, your right and I would seriously consider buying one

[@Thinwhiteduke1185]

Definitely silly and nitpicky. Also, I agree.

[@Aroverlord]

@@TheArpomni2 trust me man, there’s a lot of reasons to buy it even without the top wood lol.

[@1Live2Love3Thrive]

Haha

[@t3mo96]

Finally, the comparison we've all been waiting for! Thanks for the review/demo, even more excited to receive mine next month, it'll be my very first analog synth!! Thanks to Behringer as well for making it possible for younger musicians/producers to be able to afford this kind of gear!!

[@reidaringvaldpaasche9258]

My two Mini Moog D (both 1973 mod. both with the latest osc. board) sounds more different than the difference shown here. They are analog beasts that must be tuned/calibrated time and again so the difference also depends on the calibration. I compared one of my MM-D's with the Behringer Mod.D, they sounded more similar than my two old Mini Moogs does. (I was listening in my Genelec 1032/7070 Sub and a pair of HD 650) Thanks Starsky for great comparism! 👍🎹

[@sK3LeTvM1]

Well yeah. Some people try to find anything to justify their mythical believe. Read my above comment. And of course your Mini's do sound different. Probably the electronics are old, worn out and should get a total overhaul in order to sound similar as the Beh D. But of course, for some people hum, detune, crackingor noise is a real vintage feeling. My god. I've had it with people trying to clarify and finding reasons why their original vintage sounds better than any VST, digital or even new analog synth.Which is simply not. (probably the high price drives them to ease the pain of spending to much money) Unless you have a clear, calibrated and measurable way to prove what sounds 'better' I am open to argumentation. So think or go get some high level courses before you start talking nonsense...

[@SpaceDisco1]

I mean even IF there was a perceivable difference, I guarantee you that that all disappears in small mixes. I honestly just like the feel of plugging in a synth and playing it - or rather I hate having to think up a decent control scheme for a controller for a VST. I like turning knobs and I‘ve had more issues with a laptop live than with a synth. But the sound difference is laughable compared to a VST.

[@Ni5ei]

@@sK3LeTvM1 I think you didn't quite get what he was saying...

[@HaroldMaude]

Hello Uli

[@blastofo]

Why does an electronic instrument need to be tuned?

[@richardhighsmith]

Thanks - I’ve enjoyed your videos. Very informative for a guy who wants to dabble in the world of electronic instruments. A good way to spend a few minutes while making and enjoying my Saturday morning coffee.

[@StarskyCarr]

Sounds like a perfect morning ;)

[@terrymacklin5935]

Top presentation as ever. Opening up my apreciation of Moog and Behringer synthesisers

[@brandonaikin5445]

Just stumbled upon this. Thanks for the great quality content, per usual. I listened with my eyes closed and I think I'll go with the one that costs 10 times less. Thanks!!!

[@McSynth]

Excellent review/comparison. I've had mini for almost 40 years - I've just ordered a Poly D . My mini's too fragile to do anything other than look at..so the Poly D might be worth gigging with :-)

[@torbenanschau6641]

When you tried the oscilloscope I simply played the model D to it and discovered it had exactly the same flanging effect on both

[@o.b.v.i.u.s]

Master Po say: _If Grasshopper must use oscilloscope to see difference, then... _*_ain't no ƒµçkin difference!_*

[@ruffiankick]

LMAO!!!

[@TooSlowTube]

I definitely heard differences - especially in the pulse waveforms. They sounded like there was some high pass filtering going on, on the Poly D (maybe at a fixed frequency, not following the note), which is consistent with the shape of the waveforms around 11:00 - the verticals are as vertical, but the flatter parts of the pulse tail off a lot quicker on the Poly D.

[@eliasknaapinen]

@@TooSlowTube Thats true, the pulses sound different. But would that effect anything in a live performance, even in a studio? I would not know if I did not get a side by side comparison.

[@TooSlowTube]

@@eliasknaapinen No, and I'm not claiming one is better than the other - I'm just pointing out that I don't need to use an oscilloscope to tell there's a difference - I can hear one, in Starsky's comparison. The scope does help suggest what the difference is though. There appears to be some capacitive coupling involved, in both cases (blocking DC and very low frequencies), but on the MiniMoog, the roll-off is happening at a lower frequency. The fact that I can hear that difference, shows the roll-off is probably affecting the audible range, i.e. the audio level of low end bass, on the Poly D. Not a criticism, not a value judgement, just the facts, Ma'm :)

[@MrGorpm]

How wrong you are!

[@MrKersey]

Thanks for the comparisson, it was very useful. The Poly D sounds great, looks good, maybe I should sell my Behringer Model D and get the Poly D...

[@fletchtowellband6388]

Absolutely great evaluation of the poly D vs minimoog.

[@fletchtowellband6388]

Thanks for all the time and effort you put this comparison,

[@Sharon-music]

Thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into your videos. This is an amazing comparison.

[@iTautra]

Just ordered the Behringer 2600, the Poly D will my next buy. Great comparission!

[@Daring2Win]

I don't care how different they sound, I'm sold on the price tag! Great demo! I hope they'll create a model with more keys in place of the sequencer and paraphony or possibly a model with a digital patch store feature if possible.

[@cheater00]

such a good vide. thanks for teasing out the differences. they are apparent to me even through youtube's compression. i appreciate the time you took here.

[@elektrovoid904]

Hey mate. Love your demos. None of that annoying US waffle and straight down to what a synth actually sounds like. Top man.

[@stephensodyssey7423]

Yeah but no flowerpot hat this way...

[@nickhaldin8674]

Plenty of Brits wafflin on too, not just yanks.

[@stephensodyssey7423]

Nick Haldin Yep. I love talking about synths. Guilty as charged 🇬🇧🇺🇸✌🏻😁

[@Jeffeffect1]

US Waffle? Woah!

[@mattrogers1052]

I'm American and this is my favorite KZbin comment ever.

[@sauce_aux]

I hear what you’re saying. The Moog has a little bit of a solid buzz, where the D has that little bit of fizz at the top. Definitely wouldn’t notice it much with a finished, playable patch though. I’m genuinely impressed with the D though. Great demo! Thanks for doing this!

[@bungalowfeuhler1541]

My enjoyment of all gadgets increases exponentially when I have no fear of damaging them. Break a Behringer, get another. Break a Moog, it’s all over.

[@convivialtrivial]

Incredibly thorough assessment- as always! Your comparison videos qualify as a public service. Thank you.

[@WhirlwindDrums]

Nothing can beat the sound of the Minimoog. But the Poly D will get you very very close. more affordable too

[@remynettheim4918]

I own a poly d and love it but I reckon the poly d's filter doesnt quite get the low end chunkiness right. A resonant filter sweep on the model d is like oooorrrwww, on the poly d its like ooooowwwww. thats as best as i can describe it.

[@StarskyCarr]

Oddly that’s how I tend to describe them as well!!

[@kierenmoore3236]

Yes - definitely some “rrrrr”s missing … Perhaps if they printed Berrrrringer on the Poly D, instead, that would fix it? 🛠🤔 … and added the missing, top piece of wood, of course …

[@TimeScribe]

Thanks for producing such detailed and entertaining videos.

[@brainbuginfestation8548]

Hey! Well done video as always! Just a slight remark: Maybe the reso is supposedly louder or more prominent on the Poly D because the levels of the OSCs are lower. From my experience with analog VCFs, the input level at which you drive them is always an important factor. Louder signals interact differently with the reso -- I think this has to do with the headroom of the VCF. Cheers

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks, that makes sense. I had wondered what difference the 4th oscillator makes in the overall design particularly in regard to headroom. As I’m not an electronics engineer I tend to steer clear of too many ‘ideas’ I might have which are probably nonsense!!

[@davidhrivnak]

That's a great point, and I bet you're right.

[@dreddiknight]

Respect the passion, and envy the knowledge!

[@Paul-ur5kc]

Thank you for all the time and effort that you put into these videos, Starsky. I bought a Boog when they were first released. Did a jam on my channel called Rocky Jam and in the mix I defy anyone to be able to be able to distinguish it from a Moog D. BTW, I bought a new Mini Moog Model D in 1977/78 and wore it out playing live with it OTR in about three years. I had a Memory Moog, Voyager, Sub37TE (three actually. I'm on my third because the first two were problematic and this one has issues, primarily the keybed with the aftertouch but the keybed's a real weak spot in general with the Sub37TE) so I've a little experience. Just picked up a Matriarch that I've not found an issue with yet other than having to calibrate the VCOs upon arrival. The keybed's great and I'm lovin' it. It's the best thing Moog's produced in awhile IMHO. My overall opinion is that if you've unlimited funds, buy a few Moog System 55s and a Tesla. If you don't, you can do amazing work on a budget. I think it's great to have the option. Again, thanks for what you do!

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks, oddly I've had 3 s37TEs as well, with issues with the first 2. Would love to get my hands on a Matriarch, just haven't got the funds (or the room!) to justify it.

[@Paul-ur5kc]

@@StarskyCarr I know another person that's had three as well so that's at least three of us. I was pretty unhappy with Moog for awhile and I'm still very unsatisfied with the keybed on my third. The aftertouch is virtually unusable musically. I think you'll really appreciate the Matriarch. I can hear remnants of Emerson's and Tomita's modulars in it. Everyone that has one remarks about the lack of physical resistance of the two sliders but it doesn't seem to be problematic. I've room for more. You can put a couple here. ;-) Cheers.

[@modmodell8897]

Thanks for the video and all your effort. There are 2 thing which I would try which never happened in any of this comparison-tests. Tune the 3 oscillators to a chord and pitch matching octaves. I never hear any synthesizer doing it in the same way then the Moog. It‘s a physical experience when the oscillators come into tune. Probably because of the deseret circuits. And that defiantly should sound / feel different on the Behringer. And also it would be interesting to hear the Behringer inside of a mix. Cause often new replica synths seems to sound the same as long as you don‘t try to fit them in a mix.

[@StarskyCarr]

Interesting... I’ll have a play when I get them back together

[@SimonePapi]

I had felt these differences too, even with the ModelD Behringer, but in addition the oscillator and the paraphony the moog will never have them ... PolyD interesting machine ...

[@ximalas]

8:47 is it just the oscilloscope probe or the key click of the poly-d or does the poly-d create sinusoidal waves when you hit a key in quick succession? When you did the same on the Minimoog, all I saw was clean waveforms.

[@somedood6621]

Ah yes, a £3000 difference. Can’t wait to showcase it on my “Music For Oscilloscopes” album! 🤣

[@chupathingy5862]

You laugh about oscilloscope music but it's a real thing. Look up Jerobeam Fenderson.

[@lorybari]

Yes I found the problem, big problem, click and Thump problem on keyon and key off with and Without oscillators switch open, fast attack and short decay condition, I bought behringer Odyssey and don't have this problem, hope behringer solve the problem, this is my test: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pauyo3SVe7aXapY

[@ErykMaler]

@@chupathingy5862 The most important thing for a musician is a clean waveform, from the beginning of the sound, unfortunately virtual analogs and analog replicas have such turbulence, visible in the graphics, sometimes - at the beginning of the sound, sometimes, and this is even a huge disadvantage for experts, micro-tuning also does not it is the best in the 21st century, hence the nuances played in the mix, e.g. for Vangelis recordings - they usually falsify a bit, are less clear and dense - with the number of harmonics, this is what makes the originals 10 times more valuable.

[@ErykMaler]

The oscilloscope will not give the precision and fullness of the image of the wave and phase of the sound, you would have to follow it with your eye and register changes very quickly, - so, you need to record it and enlarge the graphics of the recording, e.g. in cubase - then we will see all the differences and possible turbulence on the graphics phases of the sound clearly, and unfortunately it is also audible then - for the picky listener, of course. It's good that there is someone who considers it important, e.g. here - just like you or me.

[@michaels8597]

Save the money and go Behringer,because 99% of folks hearing your tracks will not know the difference..

[@damnthatsweak]

but then how will I impress people with all my epic vintage stuff?

[@baptisteweymaere9670]

I understand what you mean, but I think when you"re making music, you need to make music for you first

[@damnthatsweak]

Baptiste Weymaere what music?

[@baptisteweymaere9670]

@@damnthatsweak It depends on the genre your producing, I don't understand your question

[@WanganGhostTV]

@@baptisteweymaere9670 and making music for you consists in using overpriced gear for collectibles reasons?

[@padmad3k63]

But even two vintage synths will sound slightly different if you compare them together.

[@StarskyCarr]

Something I mention in there somewhere

[@f.p.8577]

a behringer never gets vintage. ulimoog broken, 3uli3 broken...

[@padmad3k63]

@@f.p.8577 How do you know? Their synths don't feel cheap at all. I have the Boog and its built like a tank.

[@f.p.8577]

@@padmad3k63 give it 3 years.

[@f.p.8577]

my old rolands are 30 years old and easy to service.

[@BritoWorx]

Best comparison video on the internet. Unfortunately I have yet to receive my Poly D due to all that’s been going on overseas. Maybe by next month.

[@EpicStuffMan1000]

I was very lucky to get an early batch from Andertons, you have a lot to look forward to

[@scottbartenhagen6493]

Could you elaborate a little on overseas issues? You mean like tariffs?

[@TooSlowTube]

@@scottbartenhagen6493 See : Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases (map) gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

[@BritoWorx]

Scott Bartenhagen the situation going on in China with the coronavirus etc. Putting major delays in manufacturing and shipping dates.

[@harrasika]

​@@BritoWorx ooh, I've heard about that little situation in China. Mark my words, nothing big will come of it.

[@stuartdoig15]

I love your videos. Although I love noise and dark ambient I am only just getting into the instruments so am finding your videos of great help. Also, I was pleased to see we're on the same wavelength when at about 41mins I have put an "Ooooh" only for it to appear on the screen! 😂 What a delicious sound you squeezed out of them!

[@audreyazwell]

I say they're so close no one would even know in a mix and I think that should be the biggest take away here. Great video as always! You're doing God's work 😂

[@Soundtrack-Audio]

The best, most useful and watchable synth reviews on the net, please keep up the good work ... p.s. - Poly D arrives tomorrow!

[@brianh.000]

Nicely done! Interesting comparison. I'd love to get my hands on that Behringer! Hmmm.....

[@a1000pigeons]

You also reviewed the Behringer model d, is the a sonic difference between it and the poly d? Is one closer to the minimoog, or is the poly d the same with extra features? Thanks.

[@StarskyCarr]

The Model D is closer to the Moog. the poly d is slightly different - 4 osc means the gain staging is different. BUT... both are really close and I wouldn’t make the decision based on that alone.

[@a1000pigeons]

@@StarskyCarr Great thanks, a Poly D might be coming my way soon... :)

[@erickwalterbutler2816]

The difference in sound between some of these new behringer synths and the actual ones they are inspired by is negligible, tbh it makes moog synths into more of a 'collectors item' since they are so MUCH more expensive. So its still worth it to buy a moog if you can. Long live moog. BUT if you're looking to design sounds rather than to collect synths the behringer poly d all the way. + 4 voices rather than mono (!). The only thing I wish is that you could save presets on it - but instead you can just take pictures w/phone and move knobs to their place to 'save presets' - will work... If this was a moog it would prob be 20 times the price. I have never been a fan of behringer until recently - these synths behringer are coming out with are AMAZING. They really knocked it out of the park - if you look at comparison videos for every product they nail the sound of every synth and improve them in various ways for an affordable price - the 808 is close enough and sounds great, the 606 is spot on, the monopoly, 2600, odyssey, model d, sh101, tb303, ms-20, etc. are all pretty much spot on with added improvements and more affordable than the synths which they are based on. The tb303 is literally perfect and its 100 dollars, thats just amazing... here's an example of one comparison video of td-3 ($100) vs, roland tb303 ($5000+ on ebay) - kzbin.info/www/bejne/paSroqevYtaZe80. What more can you ask for? This is the way.

[@shaunbillyboss4337]

Loved it. I'm endowed with a Moog at the mo. This may be added once we sell the dog.

[@bluetv6386]

Shaun Billy Boss is it a mini dog?

[@zariisofficial]

Shouldnt take about the wife like that bro :)

[@johndough247]

Referencing the envelope/filter comparison: Are the knobs the exact same size? With adjusting anything by hand, it's easier to be more precise in micro-movements with larger diameter knobs/wheels vs. smaller ones...wondering if the Moog has bigger knobs and might equate for why the Poly D feels more sensitive/harder to dial in. I'm a bassist who always wanted a Minimoog or similar for both gigging and to improve my understanding of synthesis; your video has convinced me that the Poly D is the way to go.

[@StarskyCarr]

They’re slightly smaller on the Poly D - and you’re right it’s always a little more difficult to dial in specific tones with smaller knobs. I think also here the envelopes are digital so it may not be possible to get some settings exactly the same. I’m talking very minor differences though.

[@beatnikcafe]

I love the sound of the Subsequent 37 (at least in demos) but I really would like to have polyphony. How close is the sound capabilities of the Poly D as compared to the Subsequent 37?

[@MadelnMachines]

Did you ever run into this issue: Routing the filter envelope or the LFO to the oscillator pitch adds a semi tone in pitch. Setting the filter env set to zero attack/decay/sustain and then pushing the mod wheel up the pitch increases, also with the LFO, if I have it in square and and play C if I push the mod wheel all the way up I’m getting a C# jumping to the octave up and back. Is this the same on the real Mini moog, Behringer D and Poly D?

[@StarskyCarr]

Sounds about right. Even though your sustain is on zero, you’re adding a Cv with the mod wheel. On the Minimoog routing to osc pitch with filt env sus at zero - I get a 7 semitone increase in pitch with the wheel pushed up full. Oddly though the Moog app doesn’t do this!

[@StarskyCarr]

But I don’t get any change if the mod wheel is at zero

[@StarskyCarr]

My Pro-one changes the pitch when I route the modulation without adding any ... and needs fixing!

[@soarelefericirii3188]

Congratulations on the demonstration! Considering that you have compared both Behringer synths (Model D and Poly D) to the Minimoog, I would be interested to know which of the Behringer synths (Model D or Poly D) is closer to the sound of the Minimoog? Thank you !

[@StarskyCarr]

The Model D is closer, but the Poly D isn't far off at all - it just has added functionality that affect the gain slightly etc.

[@damienwebb3689]

How are people's poly Ds holding up after you've had them a while? Build quality good? No tuning issues?

[@azstratus1]

@@damienwebb3689 I’ve had my poly D for about a month and started taking it to my gigs every Monday Tuesday and Wednesdays nights at Kid Rock’s in Nashville (perform bass guitar and use Poly D as key-bass with pop group). It has been holding up extremely well under the hauls back and forth on a dolly. The band really love the addition of the poly D and sound guys! So far she holding up well with no issues whatsoever and remaining consistent! Not too heavy to lug around but very solid all around!

[@lundsweden]

The Behringer Model D is even more similar to a Minimoog, it basically IS a Mini. I much prefer the smaller, bedroom studio friendly size too!

[@StarskyCarr]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/porblGuIlLasqZI

[@infestedalien]

What I absolute love about the original MiniMoog sound is when the signal gets distorted, not sure if it takes place in mixer or filter or both but that sound is really what makes the instrument nice.

[@thesimulations8900]

I'm a guitar player and I look at Behringer like I look at Epiphone. Not everyone can afford Gibson custom shop. Not everyone can afford a $4-$5000 Minimoog. That's what lower priced import instruments are for. Can learn and make music on both.👍

[@jackspring7709]

It'll be interesting to see how their remake of the Yamaha CS-80 will pan out. That's one synth I would definitely be interested in looking into.

[@StarskyCarr]

There won’t be many opportunities to compare it against the real thing though 😂

[@armstronglance]

I’ve owned & played my MiniMoogs live since 72. I’d have to say the Behringer mixer level issue would be a big thing, at least for me as I switch osc2 and 3 on & off a lot. I’m curious how well the Behringer oscillator shape matches the Moog over a 6octave range or so. Especially in the low ranges.

[@audreyazwell]

I know this is an old comment but I thought you may be interested to see the pinned comment on this video, someone addresses a fix for it!

[@texacomann]

I love my model D, no need for a moog, no need for the poly D - but I like the poly D! Nice copy Ulli ! Thank you very much, you are the Robinhood of the musicans!

[@MadelnMachines]

Did you ever find out if there was an issue with yours? Yep, the minimoog is a bit brighter with a bit more top and sizzle. I wonder if a tiny bit of saturation or EQ might help get it perfect? Did you try that of find a guitar pedal that could just bring it out a little bit more? It reminds me of how the Poly D is way brighter than the Sub 37. This is similar but a more subtle difference. Is the Model D much closer in terms of the mixer gain staging? Do you think the Model D is the one to get for authenticity?

[@StarskyCarr]

There wasn’t an issues it’s just the way the gain staging works to accommodate the 4th oscillator. The clicking is inherent in the design also according to lots of other users.

[@MadelnMachines]

@@StarskyCarr Any chance of a Poly D vs Model D comparison? Especially for saturation / overdrive and Fm stuff. Do you feel they sound the same or different due to the gain staging or other factors? I think the thing I like most about the minimoog is that warm, soft fuzzy oscillator saturation with the feedback loop. I got the impression on your 2 videos that the model d had much more range of saturation from subtle to very overdriven but the poly seemed to go quite crazy instantly like an on off type switch. Is that accurate?

[@kierenmoore3236]

Starsky comments elsewhere that tge Model D is closer (so, yes - ‘more authentic sound’), but not by a lot

[@nicolasstrawberry4148]

For the price of the Poly D, you can’t be mad at it not sounding exactly like the Model D, I’m definitely about to pull the trigger on one. I was going to get the Korg Prologue this week but I might have to put it off until next next month. Plus I just bought a Moog Sub 25 so it’ll be fun to see how the Poly D sounds next to that

[@rleriche5044]

hey, did you do a side by side? How do the low ends compare? Bass to sub kinda range...

[@nicolasstrawberry4148]

Hey, sorry I’m just seeing this soooo late, yes I did a side by side, I definitely don’t regret buying the Poly D, it sounds great, it has awesome features for its price point but the Sub 25 definitely has it beat as far as Bass and sub range imo, not that the Poly D can’t be fattened up in the mix with some eq, but the Moog just has more volume also, meaning if I set the main volume of the Moog to 5 and the Poly D to 10, the Moog is still louder with the same waveform and even with all 4 oscillators turned up on the Poly D and the filter all the way open on both synths, and the Sub 25 just has more fullness imo. I use the Sub 25 over the Poly D for bass hands down. And when playing chords on the Poly D you really have to make sure the Oscillators are in tune with each other or it’ll sound like a guitar that’s out of tune, but I did by the Korg Prologue 16 for polyphonic stuff, the Poly D is fun and I experiment a lot but the other two can store presets so again, I use the Poly D for experimenting and what not since I can’t save presets

[@CaalamusTube]

$698.00 US on Sweetwater :] ...thanks for the comparison Mr. Carr!

[@javiescobargonzalez]

Hello Starsky Carr, How did you manage to solve the problem of low output signal of Poly D?

[@StarskyCarr]

There’s no solution - it’s low but apparently that’s because of the gain staging required for the chorus

[@javiescobargonzalez]

@@StarskyCarr So the gain must be compensated with the preamp inputs of my sound card? Playing in a concert would be with the gain of the mixer? Thank you very much for your video. It really inspired me to buy this beautiful synth

[@StarskyCarr]

@@javiescobargonzalez that’s correct. It’s not ‘bad’ or very low (maybe a little lower than other stuff though), I just noticed how different it was to my Minimoog. Any mixer or soundcard should easily be able to compensate without issue.

[@decimal1815]

Extra VCO, paraphonic mode, chorus, sequencer/arpeggiator.. Poly D is amazing value. It's also possible with the current parts shortage that prices will go up soon

[@Jimbo386000]

Okay... so this convinced me enough to keep my B Model D when I get my Poly D cause they don’t sound exactly the same. Not much of a problem though as the paraphony makes up for the difference. It’s it’s own beast.

[@pablolarosa5]

Having owned a D Reiusse and now a Boog, I just got the Poly D and can definitely say it's no Model D (or even a Behringer D). Don't buy if you want a Mini. Buy it if you want a 4-VCO Moog-ish synth with paraphonic capability. I also found the clicking annoying. Mine is going back

[@niknayme3754]

I think if you gigged with a Poly D and were booed by the crowd, it wouldn't be because you've left your Minimoog safely at home and used the Poly D instead. They're so close.

[@carlvogt9063]

Got it before me... lol

[@niknayme3754]

@@carlvogt9063 No, got Poly D yet but just listening to all comparisons, it's easy to tell the 2 would be comparable being played, which means I'd be pelted with foodstuffs if I tried to play live with either synth. Saving up to get one anyway, all being well...

[@GravelVoice30]

I'm late to the party as usual, but I just wanted to point out that you had the chorus switch 'ON' on the Poly D. The reason Behringer included the separate switch is because even when the 2 yellow switches are off, the circuit still passes through a bit of noise and/or distortion. And I know I'm going to sound bonkers to many, but I prefer the grittier tone and insane filter resonance of the Poly D over the Mini (not that I would mind having a Minimoog of my own).

[@thejakeyboi]

That last sound is gorgeous man!

[@m9shamalan]

sounds like the filter is more open in the original to me. the poly d also seems also to have a slight movement on the filter, as if an envelope control is just above 0.

[@caresseofficial6741]

Your reviews are making me buy all the behringer stuff ! lol

[@HaroldMaude]

And putting me off

[@OPTIONALWATCH]

7:57 On both I heard a sound that I call the breaking of glass into little pieces. But I relate this to a digital sound and don't know why analog would do that.

[@fjfrancois]

Thank you so much Mr Starsky 👍🏻

[@MarkGardner66Bonnie]

Excellent review... sitting on the fence here with a limited budget, but you are right...it is a no brainer! Thanks again...

[@J3uddha]

Just as a note, the the higher the harmonics you start working with, @24:00, the more the tuning and small adjustments become magnified. So doing the same test on another day where your retune both will let you confirm if this the cause of the differences

[@LFOVCF]

I think if anyone is anal enough to think the Moog is 'better', it's not a musical issue, because your audience will not give a rat's arse, but more the psychological profile of the comparator. Yes, we all ANALyse, over the minutiae, but the second you add effects/treatments, the issues are mute. I get no actual music done if I compare stuff. The Model D (BOOG) has given me inspiration beyond software emulators, and that's good enough for me.

[@imothy]

is the LFO leaking into the oscillator on the poly-d?

[@mdesignffm]

really great comparison. useful and on point. thank you.

[@ourmindzdj]

How do you make the FM sound at 39:30? That is lush. Anybody have the settings they can share 🙂 I have the mono Behringer D. As I’m not sure how that FM tone is being creating I’m unsure if polyphony is a factor and whether I can recreate it affectively in mono?

[@domdraper3221]

Great video and great comments. I cant afford a Moog, so I will save up and get the Behringer.

[@atomaalatonal]

if i read some german testers and now yours i m under the slight impression that one side is living in another reality. well i am lucky to be able to understand english language tbh ;D thx for another solid testing

[@kierenmoore3236]

Allegiances, vs no such allegiance … ? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Also, DON’T MENTION THE ENVELOPES!! Starsky mentioned them once, but I think he got away with it!

[@efmvii]

I think by sticking the switching circuitry in between the oscillator and the mixer section, they altered the character of the mixer as well as introducing that click when it switches the oscillators on.

[@ogasi1798]

the click is the env, i've got one here, nothing to do with the mixer

[@DestroyER82]

This mixing / levels thing is pretty much due to polyphony. You want much more gain when playing chords over that plain oscilator adding on pure monosynth.

[@StarskyCarr]

That did cross my mind, but the Mini not increasing levels with the 3 osc running confounded me.

[@TooSlowTube]

@@StarskyCarr My guess is the osc signals are being buffered before they're mixed, on the Poly D, or the mixer is an active circuit, not just a passive one - presumably something to do with the way the different options for paraphony are being done. I suspect it's not just yours that does it - it seems more likely to be a consequence of changing the design.

[@nicholasdorazio10]

Ive been using the "Instrument mode" on my 18i20 gives it a bit of a boost,will this in any way damage either device??

[@StarskyCarr]

No, it shouldn't (but I'm not an electrical engineer don't don't hold me to that!). You'll get a hotter signal, that may sound better as it could distort and give some additional harmonics. .. which is why people like preamps for adding colour.

[@funkality]

How is the sine wave and bass tones? I use Moog mainly for funk and a single or double oscillator with sine waves is my main go to. Is the Poly D smooth in that capacity?

[@shlamhabor]

because its sounds a little bit different or shows different waves doesn't mean that is far away from the original. other gear, other sounds. i love that poly dude

[@TheArpomni2]

This may sound silly, but wish Behringer had added the Wood furniture on top like the original, that's just me though

[@AndyFerguson]

Chris-Cook no not just you me too.

[@TheArpomni2]

@@AndyFerguson looks unfinished doesn't it, if I had one I'd be itching to add one, but guess when flat it would over hang back edge,

[@cedarbay3994]

Agree

[@austinstyles6393]

@Chris-Cook Yes that would have been nice.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice review/comparison mate!- Cheers

[@brectangle]

Listening on Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros, Poly D is undeniably darker and tighter, the buzz sounds like it has a 1-2db reduction above 5khz. Negligible considering the anomalies of analog and the advantages of the Poly D's price and features, though!

[@Scott.A62]

The mini looks just as great as mine. I had to do a lot of cosmetic restoration as it was well used when I bought it in ‘80 👍🙂 A nice video.

[@Gibson1976uk]

if you played them live with a band, nobody will hear a difference :)

[@DaraM73]

I’ll check the levels soon, and get back to ya

[@haidar6280]

Well?

[@keith303]

lies

[@e-conrecords4665]

I found the levels on the Behringer Deep Mind to be quite low in comparison to most other synths too. Is this a Behringer thing?

[@StarskyCarr]

I’m not sure if it’s a Behringer thing. I’ve lots of stuff all giving out different levels. The Poly D is an obvious one though, apparently because of the 4 osc and gain structure into the chorus.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

Gotta say i couldn't tell them apart sometimes while keeping the video running and reading the comments. Just hearing them both side by side really makes it hard to tell which one is the REAL Moog. Well except during the filter part where the Poly D sounded a little brighter or as if it has more dominant mid-freq than the original Moog Filter. But that's really just like counting peas. I'm still getting one.

[@anniedarkhorse6791]

I really love my Poly D. Sounds great. Great features. Great value. Behrenger brought MiniMoog to the masses and I'm greatful.

[@tavi3938]

for me with these behringer synths it doesnt really matter how faithful they are to the originals all i care about is if these super affordable synths sound good.

[@digitaldiezel5870]

Absolutely incredible! I don't think the input level thing is s bug, sounds more like a feature to me, but I don't gig. I'd probably create a sounds, set level, and record, so it would not impact me like a true player. I like the aggressive sound on the Poly D.

[@StarskyCarr]

That distortion is something else!

[@ashleyunderwood7013]

All of these reissue/clones are great but why don't they put memory on them so you can save your patches. One of the reasons I stopped using me original Minimoog on stage was because of the Prophet 5. Not only was it polyphonic but it had patch memory. I don't care if the originals didn't have memory, it seems like it would be a simple thing to add it and it wouldn't take up a lot of panel space

[@mpmi7588]

I wanna thank you for this video. I asked for it last week and you said you were working on one and here it is. For the price, this is an instant buy. Can you do a video on how to make the initial change you spoke of in the begining that made you think something was wrong at first?

[@TooSlowTube]

If I understand your question correctly, Starsky answered that in another comment; "changed from dynamic to constant velocity of 1" - turning the velocity response off all together, to match the MiniMoog, I was baffled by that part too, so I had to ask :) By default, it has a velocity response, apparently affecting the filter cut off, and an "accent", which affects the filter more when the velocity passes a certain, settable, threshold. The accent thing was a feature of the Roland TB303, affecting the filter resonance (I think) and was the only way it responded to velocity (all or nothing). The MiniMoog doesn't respond to velocity in any way, so turning the velocity response off made for a fairer comparison.

[@mpmi7588]

@@TooSlowTube Thanks man that definitely explained it. Hopefully there's a step by step video on how to do that once I get mine.

[@TooSlowTube]

@@mpmi7588 No problem. Someone linked to a Quick Start guide, which may help a bit : media63.music-group.com/media/PLM/data/docs/P0D9J/POLY%20D_QSG_WW.pdf The English language bits are interspersed througout the whole thing, not just all in one chunk, so it's easy to think there's less to read than there really is.

[@pietrozaffutomusic]

Considerando il prezzo, Behringer vince a mani basse 🙏💪🇮🇹

[@wreckage-vs5jv]

14:37 the ghost is yawning at your Moog performance.

[@VitaTristis]

This is a bit nerdy but I love the upper case Helvetica Rounded Condensed lettering on the Poly D.

[@StarskyCarr]

Yep that’s pretty nerdy 😂

[@pthelo]

And I was thinking how much I like the Futura font on the Moog!

[@waltjones40]

When did Moog put an LFO switch by the wheels? Mine had two 1/4" jacks,, if I recall.

[@ewwitsantonio]

Poly D sounds great, but the oscillators seemed a little out of tune with each other compared to the patches on the Moog. Curious what that was about. Thanks for the vid! Sorry if I missed that detail already, the vid is quite long and I may have missed it

[@voluntarybutlertv]

Interesting thanks!! I'm loving mine. Have wanted a MiniMoog for about 15 years or more and it's just consistently stayed out of my financial reach the whole time. I remember in about 2003 you could get one for around a grand, and I nearly bought one, but ended up buying a Rover Metro instead. I wonder if Uli's got plans to clone those? My only downer is that I really wish the keyboard was better quality...compared to an M Audio midi keyboard I have, it feels so light, and kind of like a big version of those mini Akai keys. BUT...you can totally work with it to get to some of those amazing sounds

[@synthshoot1026]

If you can't hear that rasp on the head phones but hear it while monitoring. Then may be there is something in the way. I can't imagine that the same instrument produces different sounds on difference jacks. Besides, the waveforms on the Poly D look like they have been passed through a strong DC remover (They are too curvy). May be that level difference and the amp on the scarlet has some thing to do with it. I suggest the following: Let the Poly D signal pass through to your software/DAW without an extra amp on the scarlet (i.e make it identical to the Minimoog). Then Amp the Poly D in software. This should at least apply the same level of none linearities (or DC removal) caused by the scarlet on both signals. That raspy jiggle was audible to my ear by the way. Knowing thats it not even in the behringer model D. Suggests more that there is something in the way. Or may be that Poly D you have has a slight problem.

[@StarskyCarr]

I think the difference was down to the headphones being the Bose, not intended for monitoring. I was using these to edit so the resolution and high end probably isn’t there. But thought it was worth noting. Sometimes through decent monitors I’ll hear stuff no-one else will after the KZbin compression etc. So I was noting that it was subtle and not a game changer - but it is there. Good idea listening to them both at the same input level ... if only I could hear it :))

[@pro_Utuber]

Half the time the Moog sounds more pleasant to the ear, more detailed, bigger, and more organic, whereas the Behringer sounds harsh and uni-dimensional. Albeit, it does have the four voices, sequencer, and chorus, making it a different instrument and not necessarily a direct comparison. But even with the extra features in the Poly D, the Moog is just so much more ear candy it's on a different league. Excellent comparison by the way!