BEST WAY to Use VST Samples Inside a Roland TD-50 TD-27 TD-17 Module - One Shot Sample Tutorial

[@phildavidson8431]

Great video! You have quickly become the “go to man” when it comes to showing how to do this sort of stuff on an electronic drum kit ! Great Job!! I could easily see this video being part of a series of videos on your channel, as there is conflicting info out there on how the whole matter of using an electronic drum kit with a VST can be achieved & all the Pro’s and Con’s etc!? Therefore, can I suggest something "along the lines" of the following? Video 1 - Why use a VST? Video 2 - the specs required for a computer? Ram, Processor, SSD's? Video 3 - is a DAW required for VST's when using an electronic drum kit? Video 4 - VST sound quality over Module sound Quality? Video 5 - how to set up a Drum VST & Best VST? Video 6 - connecting the drum module via either USB or Midi DIN and any settings (vendor) / drivers required ? Pro's & Con's? Video 7 - is it better to use an audio interface instead of direct USB connection from your module to your computer? Pro's & Con's? Video 8 - Latency issues and how to overcome them? Video 9 - advantages of Midi recording an electronic kit, instead of just using L&R audio or direct out recording? Video 10 - this video! This is only a suggestion which I hope you would consider, as having been down this road, I found it hard to get all the correct info, as it is not available on any one KZbin channel - it is scattered everywhere and sometimes conflicts! A beginners guide maybe? I would suggest that this is not an easy subject for most people to get their head around but with your skills, abilities and talent as a communicator, it would seem like a “no brainer to me” if you could consider undertaking this as a project, as I’m sure it would be greatly appreciated and also make your channel the the "number one place to go to" if any drummer wants to "get in to" using VST's with their electronic drum kit ! Always looking forward to your next Video - keep up the great work!!

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Hey Phil - thanks for the great suggestion! It's something I'd have to think long and hard about doing as I'm not actually an avid VST user myself, I very rarely venture into the world other than for exporting some one-shots and the odd test of bits of software. I only really use VSTs to punch in a drum track for a demo without using my kit. There's also a tonne of variables for each of those points that make it difficult to pin down "accurate" information for - I believe this is the reason that you find so much confliction between different channels' points of view. Everyone's own experience often differs based on the spec of their audio interface, their computer, their module, maybe their DAW and their own technological literacy. That said, I do understand the need and want of this kind of information amongst the eDrum scene, especially with the influx of newcomers no doubt brought on by lockdown/Covid restrictions across the world so I'm not completely dismissing the idea by any means. I'd just have to figure out where I could meaningfully contribute to this topic which could take a lot more work myself on using different VSTs personally. I try my best to cover topics I mostly have heavy experience of so I can be as accurate as possible, though I do research areas where my knowledge is lacking to help strengthen the points. Wow, that became an essay, apologies. Hope it helps you understand my current direction and why, even if I do manage to tackle this topic, it might be a while off. Thanks again for taking the time to offer up great suggestions and for watching my videos!

[@phildavidson8431]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Hi Ya. Thanks for the reply! Totally understand your point of view!! Keep up the great work!

[@holzi2k]

Good content, as always. I play only VST now, but had nice results with one shot samples on the TD17 (Snare and Kick).

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thanks! Nice, which VST do you use?

[@holzi2k]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Superiour Drummer 3. Since the Death&Darkness SDX is around I mainly use this extension. Amazing Samples.

[@fVNzO]

Here's an idea. Imagine recording a ride cymbals for instance with a couple piezos attached to also generate position and velocity data. You take this sound and the positional data along with information about hit speed perhaps and spit that into a neural network which is now told what parameters are responsible for a particular sound output. You could in theory therefore by playing that ride for an extended period of time teach a network how to generate a very realistic ride sound that's entirely artificial. This would in theory give you perfect articulation across the entire ride assuming enough data and enough processing power. I could totally see this become a reality at some point... Taping a piezo may also contribute to a duller sound so that's a bit of a problem.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

When you're selling them, I'm buying XD

[@Alb-bi4qx]

Thanks for your tutorial i appreciate , but i have a question. Can you explain how to use 3 samples in one layer, or how to insert another sample in each layer ?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean here - do you mean you want to be able to merge 3 samples together into one single sample to use as a layer? If so - you could do that in the DAW (each sample on its own track then level the volumes so that they aren't clipping, then export a new one-shot .wav) If you mean that you want more samples in the velocities or more "round robin" samples for a layer in the module, that's not possible on a Roland.

[@Alb-bi4qx]

@@TheeDrumWorkshopYes , the second part “Round Robin” was the answer that i asked for, but how it’s impossible that they didn’t include this technique...I have Korg Pa4x Keyboard and i have in one note for example 8 layers and in Layer ONE i put one sample with 30 dynamic volume , In Layer TWO i put another (not similar) sample with 50 dynamic volume, In Layer THREE 70 dyn.vol Another sample ...continues till EIGHT . By the way Thank You so much, you helped me a lot ...But i think that this is a big problem that need to solve immediately.🙏

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yeah, it's a shame they didn't do a better job of the sample imports. They basically just slapped the SPD engine on to the module with no additional functions. Hopefully they'll do a better version on the next generation...

[@Alb-bi4qx]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Yes you’re right, Thank You

[@birchdrums]

Very well explained Luke, your dissection of the topic had a logical progression. I really found value in your comments on using a limiter to roll off some transient in the samples before importing. Thanks!

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thanks Tim! 🙏

[@kevinbilliot507]

Hey are you planning on releasing some kits for the td27 module?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

I hope to at some point if I'm able to afford one but I'm not sure yet when that would be. I'll do an update if I do!

[@Zcustom16]

I still don’t understand why blending or layering is necessary. Why not just replace the module sound with the VST?

[@andybdrumming2191]

Thanks so much for making this video, answered a lot of questions for me. I bought my TD-50 through Drum-Tec that came with some really nice snare samples. I have been adding them to kits I got from the Vexpressions Generations pack and boy does it make a difference. It would be nice if us drummers that prefer to use the modules instead of VST could buy the Samples from SSD 3 and other places. Could I use the ones from ATV's site or Drummit? I picked up a few of your TD-50 sets really like them. It really takes me back every time I play that i am getting these awesome sounds from the snare. Also just wanted to add when i first got into eDrums i was really aiming for as close to acoustic sound as possible but know starting to view it different. It may not sound truly acoustic but to me it sounds even better. And with the amount of processing acoustic drums go through in the studio and live events these days who is to say what is the right sound. (And let's not even get into the amount of triggers being used on them) There are many Electronic drum haters that will never be convinced but chances are their favorite sounding drums on any album have a good amount of electronic drum tech involved in one way or another. Keep up the great content and if you can ever make a drum kit that sounds like the Dr. Feelgood album I will be first in line.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thanks for watching, glad you've got something out of it! Your best bet for samples outside of VSTs is looking for places that sell their samples in .wav format. I think Drumdrops sell some in multi-velocity and one-shot packs and DrumWerks is another I've seen that sell multi-velocity wavs. You could then pick which you liked out of them. It's a shame none of the VST manufacturers sell any one-shot sample versions, that'd be handy. You couldn't use the ATV ones as the samples come in a format that is only readable by the ATV modules for what I remember, not sure about the 2box ones. And yeah, I try to look at eDrums this way too. I like making more conventional "acoustic-style" sounds overall, but I try to approach it from a "what sounds good to me" angle where I can. And if that isn't "natural" at all, that's fine by me, as long as it gives me a feeling I enjoy playing and a sound I like to listen to. I think people can get too focused on replication (I have in the past). I'll add that kit suggestion to my list and see what I can do!

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Oh wow, just gone to a site I've downloaded samples from before and found out they've closed but are offering their full catalogue of samples for free! If you want to have a look, go to rw5samples.com and download them. They're multi-velocity one-shots, there's 10 kicks, 15 snares and 5 tom packs with 2 toms in each!

[@andybdrumming2191]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop thanks for the heads up. downloading now. Will I need a DAW to use them?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

No, you shouldn't need a DAW for them. They're just pure .wav files. Just tested one on my module, seems they're in a file format that the TD-50 can read, so you could be able to put them in your SD card's IMPORT folder and load them with the Import Sample function. You can either throw them all on there and preview them on the module, or just listen to each sample and cherry pick what you want beforehand (I would normally do this at my PC for speed so I don't have to dive through a bunch of folders on the module, but whichever method you prefer).

[@lucyferina]

Steven Slate Drums has that kit, I believe it’s called the Feelgood kit, it does sound pretty close to the album. They also have other bands kits including the Metallica black album, Deftones white pony, RHCP, Dream Theater, Pantera, and more. Great VST.

[@jayeprice]

I'm loving your videos and approach to electronic kits. Will your kit samples work when downloaded to a Roland TD30 module? If so, I'm very interested and I will be purchasing some sample kits.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thank you! Unfortunately none of my kits will work on the TD-30, sorry. Each module has different onboard sounds and settings so the files are only compatible with the module they were created on. I don't have a TD-30 to develop for, so can't make kits for it. The 30 also doesn't have a sample import feature so the sample packs won't work either.

[@evilynux]

Great video, amazing tutorial to get started. Thanks a bunch Luke!

[@kylekyle2330]

When importing your own samples is there ever an issue of phase cancellation between the imported sample and the stock Roland sounds? Is there a way to flip phase in the module?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yes, it is possible to run into phase issues when importing samples. Unfortunately there is no "phase flip" option within the module so any time I've encountered this I've had to flip the phase on the sample before importing again.

[@DivisionStreetDrums]

I use a 2 Box Drumit 3, you can load a vst in a module if you so choose.

[@EqDior]

Great tutorial. quick ? are the samples stereo or mono when imported?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thanks! They import as they are. If you load a stereo sample, it will be stereo. If you load a mono sample, it will be mono.

[@MissingSIRENS]

Would pls let me know the brand and model of the studio monitors / speakers

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

They are KRK Rokit 6 monitors - I think they're Gen 2. I think they're up to generation 4 now and it doesn't look like the have the 6" any more, it's been replaced with a 7". Hope that helps!

[@Masterworks2010]

Have you ever used Sdse software from Lustark? I’m thinking of trying it with my TD 27. Greetz Etienne

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

No, I haven't yet. Not had any real use for it as it's best for exporting large amounts of samples for use with the 2box modules, as I understand it (for multilayered samples, basically). Roland modules only allow single samples or two layers, so there's not really any need, in my opinion. Bouncing down a single hit and trimming it doesn't take too long.

[@seansearle9340]

is it possible to take the audio and midi from a module into a daw use the midi for superior drummer and the audio as it is so you have both at the same time

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

If you have a TD-50, 27 or 17 it should be possible, yes. If you want to do it over one USB cable, it needs to be in "VENDOR" driver mode and install itself to your computer (should be automatic, but some people might need to download the driver). Then you use the module as the audio interface and set up the module's audio inputs as well as setting up the MIDI input for the module. They will send at the same time if you set it up correctly (how to do that will depend on your DAW). If you want to use SD and the module's sounds together, there is a chance that you might encounter latency and I haven't tried doing it myself so don't know exactly how well it works. Hope that helps!

[@seansearle9340]

The eDrum Workshop ye I get ye. also if it does work with no latency. What you could possibly do is if you have a bigger kit. You could assign those extra pads to the different samples in SD so you could have idk a gong drum or something on one pad. So it’s like an extension to the module It is a shame the modules not like £50 cuz I have a td-9 and I can’t afford really anything since I’m saving up for my car insurance 😂😂😂

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yeah, it'd be great for people who like to hit lots of things with high quality samples haha! I reckon with the right settings (and computer) it could be done! Ahh, cars are so expensive, I feel your pain! Something to work towards in the future though, eh 😉

[@seansearle9340]

The eDrum Workshop yee. But u can get carried away and then you can’t really apply those sounds into the songs unless that’s just me 😂😂😂. Yee it doesn’t help when I’m not in a job yet 😂😂😂

[@alexfr811]

Very nice... However, if I wanted to load my own samples which way is best to go, td17 or 2box??...id much appreciate your reply since I'm in the market for either option. Thx heaps!

[@Swampy14x]

Would you sample layer a cymbal? Or just use the one shot sample alone?

[@marco_prolo]

Hi Swampy. I'm on a TD50x and for me both works. I usually like to layer the ride/crash edge with an on board sound. As for splashes and chinas I often go with one shots only, but they blend also quite well.

[@itsgmani]

My friend I have question. I split my tom1 with a floor Tom via cable splitter. HnR is off I have Tom sounds. Issue is I cannot hit the two toms together as it’s the rim/head is there a poly type function so I can do that?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Hey. This is just a limitation of splitting pads on a Roland module, unfortunately. Because you're effectively tricking the module into thinking it's a single pad, you can't trigger the head and rim sounds at the same time. So I would always recommend splitting pads into two that you aren't as likely to hit together, such as a tom and a cymbal.

[@itsgmani]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop okay perfect. Thank you for always helping so quickly.

[@spe2800]

Can the kits you made for the roland td-27 module be imported to ezdrummer?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Hi. No, my TD-27 kits will only work on the TD-27 module. They're made of a combination of my own samples layered with edited internal sounds, so they need the module to work.

[@hiddenlevelaudio2977]

Do you know if with the TD17 if you can assign each drum out its own midi channel? Kick out midi channel one, snare midi channel two etc (if not the TD17 what the cheapest option rather than the TD50)??? Reason Im asking I have a bunch of Kontakt instruments that have all kicks, all snares and so on. So I want to load those all in multiple instances of Kontakt. Good video thanks so much.

[@TacoCrisma]

Yes you can. It uses midi numbers. You’ll need to connect the td17 using a midi cable into an interface with a midi in - such as the focusrite 2i4. Depending on the VST you will probably need to assign the drums and rims manually to your midi channel. You can do this fairly easy using midi-chase.

[@alexalexandre4108]

Great video! Thanks

[@mikestein1024]

Can you do the high hats ?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Unfortunately, the hi-hat usage for samples is really limited and it's not possible to get proper hi-hat response. You can't assign enough articulations to get playable hi-hats as you only get 2 layers of one-shot samples with no way to assign open/close (unless you use a velocity switch between a single open sample and closed sample). Layering with the stock sounds won't work well either because you could only put one closed or one open hi-hat sample on it. So, for example, you'd get an open sample on top of your closed/half open Roland articulations. It would work "ok" for an auxiliary hi-hat but not for a main hi-hat, imo.

[@Dan-22]

this helped a lot thanks man

[@bagoroma5879]

Hello, thanks for your videos, they are very useful. I loaded .wav samples at 44.100Hz, 16bit, I learned quite well how to load a sound on head, one on Sub and one on rim, I put polyphonic one shot and I optimize the start of the sample and the results are very very good. Unfortunately, however, after having loaded only two kits, the TD17 tells me memory full. Considering that each sample is 3 / 4mega possibly that the memory is already full? Maybe I know that .TDO files are used, can it be a solution to save space by saving a kit with this extension? Thank you in advance for your time. Bye bye Ale

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Hey! Thank you, glad you're enjoying the videos! Yeah, the TD-17 only has 32mb of user sample memory so a few samples at 3/4mb will eat that up pretty quickly. The samples are the same size as when they are imported even if you save them as .TD0 files (that's just the format for the kit settings and the samples get saved inside of those). I've had to chop down samples to only the exact required length to make the most of the available space and sometimes I even convert them to mono samples to make the file size smaller if the sample still sounds right in mono (it will depend on the sound - some samples don't benefit from stereo, some do). Hope that helps shed some light on it.

[@bagoroma5879]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Thank you for your quick answer. If the internal memory is only 32 megs, obviously the space for the samples is limited, so at the most you can create two or three drum kits. Isn't there the possibility of being able to read the samples from the sd without having to download them to the memory of the module? Or are there any other ways? Or will I have to change the sound module? (please tell me no 🤣)

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yeah, it's just a limitation of the module. There's no way to make the module read the samples from the SD card, no - they have to be imported. If you don't want to upgrade, you'll just need to get more creative with cutting down the sample sizes - trim off any silence if there is any as that is wasted space, cut down the decay of certain sounds if necessary. Most of my snare head and rim samples are smaller than 1mb, it's only usually toms with long sustain or cymbals that take up 2/3/4mb. I don't often bother with cymbal samples for that reason. Usually I use just snare as I find that's the most "important" one to do but some tom samples can sound great too. Worth persevering with it first before decided to upgrade!

[@bagoroma5879]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop You were very clear, unfortunately you did not know about this limit when I got the TD17 just a few days ago. What do you mean by upgrade? What type of module should I take to no longer have this problem?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

With the "upgrade" thing, I was replying to what you said about changing module. The TD-27 and 50 both have 128mb. It's still pretty limited but it would give you more. However, they're much more expensive. It depends exactly how you are using the samples - it might not be a worthwhile upgrade depending on your usage or it might be a great decision. It's hard to say. I would try to get as much out of the internal sounds as possible rather than relying on only samples before deciding what you might do as the TD-17 has a lot to offer.

[@alyssonerlandsson]

Did you recomend that use toms as samples also?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

I sometimes use samples on the toms, yeah (I have on my most recent eDW Originals Premium kits). However, it can be a bit more complicated to get the tunings right. If the tuning is wrong, it can sound very strange!

[@bufordmoyers7634]

Watched the whole video and at the end I think I just stick to your store like you said. lolz

[@barrycomer3688]

Why does this video keep zooming in and out

[@popedef1]

Why does the video have td 27.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Because this works on the TD-27.

[@Carriesaglock]

I have the TD27KV and have no idea how to do any of this 😂

[@chezchezchezchez]

Are you planning on learning any of this?

[@seansearle9340]

If I want to use export the sounds from my td-9 module into superior drummer 3 what would be the best way in doing it since SD3 don’t support round robin Because there’s not enough space in my bedroom for my drum kit but I still want to use the sounds since it also has some electronic sounds

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

It's not something I've ever done, so take this with a pinch of salt. If you're talking "electronic sounds" like the drum-machine style stuff (808/909, that kind of thing), you won't need to worry about round-robin as they're all just one-shots on the module anyway. But either way, if SD can only accept one-shot samples, the "best" way is probably to use an audio interface to record the master outputs of your module and to just hit a pad or use MIDI to trigger each sound that you want, leaving enough time at the end of each sample to not overlap so you trim it down cleanly. Then use whatever sample playing functionality SD has to access the samples. Hope that helps, cheers!

[@seansearle9340]

The eDrum Workshop yee that helps thanks. What velocity would you say and how many of each sound

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

As I say, if it's just the purely "electronic" sounds, may as well just do top velocity to get a good volume and one of each will do as there's no variation in the module on those. If it's the more acoustic-style sounds, I'd take about 5 velocities (even spread from low to high) and see how that comes out. I don't think there's a lot more than that many sample layers in Roland's acoustic sounds, tbh.

[@seansearle9340]

The eDrum Workshop Ah ok thanks bro 🤘🏻

[@kissthissonline]

I like your channel as I find your content useful, I can’t stand how you zoom in and zoom out on your camera every time you finish a point or a sentence. It’s distracting from your message, and it gives me a headache. I’ve mentioned this to you before. It’s your channel, so do what you like, but if it’s annoying me, then it’s probably annoying others also.

[@roynichol3751]

Hmmm never even noticed! Lol

[@camilo.venegas]

why do you use a yamaha hi hat?

[@holzi2k]

only the pad...probably a FD-9 Pedal?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Because why not? 😅 I used to use a CY-13R as a hi-hat but eventually broke it (not sure if I was heavy-handed with it or if I transported it badly) so thought I'd try a Yamaha PCY-135 instead as they're much cheaper and I wanted to see how well they worked. Turned out to be a good fit. I use 13" hats on my acoustic so I like the size. And yes, I use it with an FD-7, or sometimes with a Goedrum controller.

[@adventurellama7444]

Just bought my TD17 and paid for an expansion pack from vexpressions. I have a lot to learn and it’s somewhat confusing.

[@3rdGen-Media]

Fade 3. Another unnecessarily withheld Roland software feature.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

I found out that the Fade 3 function is basically the same as the Fade 2 function except it allows it to go up to 127+32 for the digital pads only (makes no difference on analogue pads). If the module or device doesn't support digital pads, there's no reason for the function to be on there. The TD-50X no longer has it too because you can set a fade end point manually now, as you can on the SPD-SX Pro.

[@3rdGen-Media]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Ah I see. Thx for filling me in. I was going to look it up in the manual but I haven't had a chance yet. Some additional fade support for the two-layer sampling devices would be welcome though. Like an adjustable inverted exponential fade in similar to the attack portion of an envelope.

[@lahattec]

FYI, the word is "damping", not "dampening". You aren't putting water on it. :)

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

dampen; in British English 1. to make or become damp 2. (transitive) to stifle; deaden That one's from the Collins dictionary, though there are similar definitions found in the Cambridge dictionary and others. Indeed, historically there has been a defined difference between the words but language evolves based on the usage of those speaking it :)

[@lahattec]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Indeed the word has been accepted in common popular usage to a degree and been included as such on some dictionaries. The more correct physics based term is "damped", "damping", "damper", etc....

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

If the word has been accepted then it has become "correct".

[@lahattec]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop When I say "accepted" I mean by laymen, not professionals.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

My first point of order when I become a recognised, official professional is to change the word to "dampenen."

[@villimagg]

This is all well and good. But lots of the samples still sound machine gunny. But to be honest, I'd much rather spend my time playing drums than finnicking with this type of activity. There must be some sample pack available somewhere to buy from someone who's spent lots of time making great samples. I guess theres no reason to disign the wheel one more time and rather just find a sample pack from that someone whos done this. Roland tom sounds are shit.

[@MsZappas]

Please calm down with your edits and fast / endless talking. Just becasue every channel us using this meta, doenst mean you have to. I literally have to play your vids at slower speed so my head isnt spinning with your edits

[@MsZappas]

please stop moving your hands like that too :x

[@chezchezchezchez]

You guys should just appreciate the incredible value his videos are giving us for totally free.

[@MsZappas]

@@chezchezchezchez I do appreciate the vids for sure, but I guess I took out my frustrations of alot of creators on this one. sorry to edrum workshop for coming off as a douche troll, but there's still value in the criticisms and im sure im not the only one who finds these things annoying.