KTM 790/890 Adventure vs. Yamaha Tenere 700 | Honest Comparison (after owning both)

I've owned both the KTM 790 Adventure R and now the Yamaha Tenere 700. I've been asked to compare them and talk about my experiences riding and owning these similar, but different machines.
00:00 Intro
03:56 Spec Comparo
10:50 Design Differences
14:44 Highway Riding
16:22 Off Road Riding
18:42 Maintenance
19:40 Reliability
22:23 Final Thoughts
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[@BigRockMoto]

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[@mikedeclerck1421]

Absolutely outstanding review. Your objectivity and candor are commendable. I enjoy each episode, stay safe and keep up your excellent site. GOD BLESS

[@hmbseesaw]

Love your honesty

[@VVeinbergs]

@Big Rock Moto Have you thought on upgrading the suspension on the T7 with something like K-tech piston kit or Rally Raid products?

[@stevetavares462]

@@mikedeclerck1421 8

[@GURUKHAN_OG]

Hey, good video once again bro! I have been expecting your video in CB500X. It would be nice if you can do a comparison of that vehicle against Triumph's Tiger 660 sport.

[@kawabungah20]

Like many riders, I appreciate reliability and dependability over performance, especially when the performance of a machine like the T700 is solid. The price difference doesn't rule my decision because I'm willing to pay for what I want. Thank you for another superb discussion.

[@doanrademeyer3180]

Especially with an adventure motorcycle, I wouldn't take anything unreliable into the wilderness, on 2 or 4 wheels, i dont want to be stranded in/on anything miles away from civilization.

[@captainwin6333]

But dependability depends on how well the suspension works offroad. If you fall on your arse because the suspension isn't up to the job you have then incurred more cost repairing the bike and perhaps repairing yourself so I guess the moral is, beware false economies.

[@christopherbeddoe406]

@@captainwin6333 I would argue you are conflating dependability with capability. If you are taking the bike into a situation where it's outclassed. That is a capability problem. If you have a part randomly fail that should have been fine given the conditions.. like the engine detonating, oil leaks, clutch issues, abs issues, traction control issues, etc. those are reliability issues. The KTM give you a whole slew of tech that the T7 doesn't. That's great if you really want it but if you don't care it's a liability. I'm looking to buy a new bike this next year and it's between the: • Aprilia Tuareg 660(80hp, 51.6 ft-lb, 449 lb) $11999 (like this bike, lots of suspension travel, few weird design quirks, not sure about parts availability or reliability) • Tenere 700(72.4 hp, 50 ft-lb 452 lbs) $10299 (About as simple as it gets, great reliability, lacking the bells and whistles of the competition, little cheaper, little less power, little less capable stock) • KTM 790 adv R (88.4hp, 59.4 ft-lb, 464 lbs ) $12000 (2020 used, out of warranty) This bike is pretty hardcore but there are reliability issues, Sometimes hot and crazy is fun but do you want to live with it?)

[@davidb9323]

@@christopherbeddoe406 Well, I live with my wife so…

[@eoincostello4634]

watch the clutch on them

[@svd31garage]

I now own a T7, and best advice I'll give anyone looking to get an ADV bike, join the owner groups for each model and brand. Thats what I did 6 months before putting a deposit down on an adv bike. The KTM groups scared me to the point of not even taking a look at them again for a bloody long time. Literally not a single problem on the T7 pages, only issue being the exhaust bracket that everyone cuts off anyway and goes to a high mount, and that is only a problem if you crash it hard. Big Rock did a really good job on this review/comparison, well done mate. PS: From what I have seen here in Aus, it seems only the Suzuki DR's and Yammy T7's that survive reliably in our harsh environment, and Kawasaki KLR650 gets an honourable mention.

[@SuperiorTim989]

Although I wasn't buying a adventure bike that's exactly what I did to buy my crf450l. Followed the pages for a year. Great advice

[@MatthewC137]

I've owned all the Japanese brands, dirt and street, but no ADV bikes and nothing tops Yamaha for reliability and build quality in my experience. The same goes for ATVs.

[@locomike102]

@@MatthewC137 I agree, although Honda is close. The rest are way behind.

[@trippyrides5674]

@@locomike102 Suzuki and Kawi are not way behind. Ojectively, the big 4 Japanese are within a few percent of each other in reliability reports. Subjectively, I've ran at least 1 bike from each of the big 4 into the ground and never had a defect-related failure in any of them.

[@kwakithailand]

@@trippyrides5674 *EXACTLY* , 👍

[@brucekendall52]

You are to be commended for your in depth analysis.Your effort is greatly appreciated.Thanks JHB-SA.

[@BigRockMoto]

I appreciate that!

[@robkennedy8103]

What do you thing Bruce Should I get one?

[@brucekendall52]

@@robkennedy8103 I would move up to the 890 being the refined 790 so to spk.Nice to see you here.

[@Boudi-xy9by]

Thanks I was afraid that I did all the work for nothing And after-more 50 years riding motorbikes …. and repairing (not the KTM hahaha) but my other motorbikes I thought it’s time to share some of that knowledge. But I’m not that acquainted, whit this way of fomenting in KZbin’s… I can’t even find my post back …. I maybe have to dig deeper.

[@agusbal9367]

About to buy the 790 adventure 2023, just because of this I’m going to look the new Tenere, great work.

[@sew-tec]

I’ve had my T7 for a year now and no crash bars. I have dropped my bike plenty and no damage. Thanks for the video.

[@rkroz4005]

I really appreciate your no BS approach to reviews. Your first hand experience and objective observations can't be beat (not to mention the seamless editing). Thanks and keep Rocking!

[@actstuntcam]

I've heard the argument regarding tubeless versus tubed tyres for ages - This is the first time I've heard anyone calmly explain why people prefer the different options - AWESOME WORK!!! Actually this whole video was interesting and well structured, with good info and enough riding footage to keep me engaged :)

[@BigRockMoto]

thanks

[@jordesign]

@@BigRockMoto I've wondered this about tubeless set up: Can you carry a spare set of tubes and pop tubes into the tire in order to get home?

[@damytzeus]

@@jordesign yes. the tubeless quibble is total bs. whether one rides tubes or tubeless, he will carry a spare tube. if he cannot plug a tubeless tire, he'll install a tube. i only run tubeless and neutech tubliss. i can fix most punctures flats in a few mins without removing tire. in the rare event that tire is so damaged that i cannot plug it, i'll install a tube. so, the tubeless criticism is bs and misinformation. tubeless is much much easier option and no worries about pinch flats. i totally disagree with the tubeless criticism. tubes suck.

[@hibob841]

@@damytzeus Yep! 100%. As I said in a separate comment, the only real disadvantage to tubeless is that you have to pay a premium (or trust a DIY project) to get them.

[@HartyBiker]

​@damytzeus I do see one potential downside to tubeless, and that is that tubes will allow you to go down to lower tyre pressures in low grip environments (like sand) without worrying about the tyre coming off the bead or dirt in the bead, etc. Of course, you do then have the downside of now worrying about pinch flats, and also the extra weight of the tube set up (I've seen guys save about 2 kgs of unsprung weight by switching to tubeless), but it is really going to depend on your type of riding as to which you'd prefer. I'd say most people would do better with tubeless, but tubes do have their advantages.

[@bobweck1317]

You're the bomb, buddy👍. Balanced, INTELLIGENT, objective, and incredibly helpful reviews. So glad you were able to get things worked out with regaining control of your channel after the hackers messed with you.

[@CBWANADA]

Other thoughts.. I recently put 600+ miles mostly dirt on my 790r camped out at Mammoth around the 28th Sept. The revvy nature of the 790r, low engine flywheel effect that bothers beginners wanting low end torque makes that bike with the chosen traction settings super flickable in the trees! Uncanny! Felt at times like my 500! Climbs hills I surprised myself. Get back on road, select road, or rally, sport bike like. You said yourself most versatile. Had the time of my life sloshing around back there. Walk to the garages, see it, have that smile. 5k miles almost. Nice review. Cb

[@alvk3996]

I considered doing that before, trucking my bike somewhere to camp and ride so that I can keep my bike light for day rides. Do you just leave your truck at a campsite unattended? That part always sketches me out that someone would screw with my shit. Mammoth is an awesome area to ride so I'm itching to just go..

[@CBWANADA]

@@alvk3996 I camp with an RV, the 790r on the back. No problems

[@Angry-Lynx]

@@CBWANADA fuckin rich americans 😂

[@mda1856]

Great presentation of the strengths and weaknesses of each bike. In my case, recall issues and very poor dealer service experience led me to sell my R1200GS Adventure even though I loved riding it. I wanted to get a Tenere 700 but my local dealer could not get one in 2021. I bought a base model Africa Twin DCT instead. I did not consider either of the mid size KTMs because of reliability concerns. I did not consider another BMW based on my experience with dealer service. With respect to the Austrian and German brands, I don't believe they intentionally sacrifice reliability for performance. I worked as a reliability engineer for part of my career. The methods of achieving reliability are not rocket science. It is primarily based on 3 things - design margin for strength of mechanical parts, rigorous testing to find the weak links and good quality control processes both internally and with parts vendors. The premium Euro brands have talented staff that know this. IMO, they sacrifice reliability for increased profits because they can still sell every bike they make based on image and perception of higher performance. Their profit per bike sold goes up if they cut out reliability testing and strict quality control processes.

[@BigRockMoto]

interesting. sounds about right.

[@franksmith9692]

I was reliability engineer too. Granted it was years ago. I found design engineers don’t take reliability seriously. Think it’s just extra work. I owned a 790 adv. most of my issues were mfg defects. Lack of quality control. Like it was assembled by engineering techs, which maybe it was. Stripped screws. Now, they know the rear shock is an issue. The Japanese look at it differently. They just consider quality part of the job. I worked for Japanese auto supplier. They use SPC religiously. Quality and no defects were a given.

[@martinseel2837]

well written. As a former BMW-mechanic (15 years) I just can say you are absolutly right. The quality of the bikes went less after every new model which they released. I still love BMW..... before 1200 cc. (proud owner of a T7 rally)

[@technicalitems731]

Makes a lot of sense. I own motorcycles, cars, trucks, tractors, heavy equipment, music gear(I’m a musician and play in studio and bands), and lots of tools. I used to let my patriotism, pride and ego create Bias in my decisions. I let all that go. It is FACT that Japan had its act together on a quality and consistency in value (they can do this even if it’s a budget level machine or whatever). Germans can machine things precisely out of quality materials, but they always have overall flaws. Kaizen. Culture. Idk what it is but, Japan is serious about quality. I love classic American music instruments. The “sound”. The wood. Etc. In regards to drumsets. I LOVE USA made Ludwig drums from North Carolina. The look and sound is amazing. But, every time I bought a USA drumset…I’d have to disassemble it and reassemble it to get everything torqued correctly with proper washers and nuts and such. I can buy budget levels Japanese drums….Yamaha for example, and every screw, nut, bolt is precisely torqued. Even the cheaper Chinese version. There is something wrong in USA. Yes, we build the best war weapons, jets, tanks, large machinery, rockets, and guns. We have access to the best steel and materials. But when it comes to assembly…I guess we have too many Kid Rocks and Joe Dirts in the factory. White trash hung over spiteful factory workers I guess? Yes, there are exceptions. Just as a whole. In regard to dirt bikes. The Japanese seem to limit features and focus on quality. KTM throws the ideas out there and goes for it. They sell what we “want”. But, it seems the features are not quality checked. And the models change so frequently. I love the slick features, light weightness of the KTM stuff. But holy hell. It seems most people won’t admit the reliability issues until “after” they get their bike sold. It is hard to ride an old xr650L beside a super lightweight 501 KTM in the mountain trails. There are no comparisons. But it seems that the old xr650L will just keep running year after year.

[@keesverhagen9227]

@@technicalitems731 I feel your point. As a reseller of electric tools for more then 30 years in durabilty the Japanese are way up in the top of quality. And it is quit simple to adress why. It is simply a honer thing. It is rooted in the Japanese culture over a very very long time. And we Westeners are lacking honer. We want profit as quicly as possible. And we don't feel bad when a customer has to do day in and day out a shitty job and will be ripped off. Because what do we really do ? We sell those hard working people simply an idea. An idea of exploring the world. To get free and escape from the shackles of their not forfilling jobs and mortgages. BMW is almost a bit wicked in that. They have spend so much money for the psycholical side of selling. And the long way round did not make this better. Just worse. An awfull quility control. Well aware of the bigger tolerances in their products and parts. Profit, profit and profit as much as possible and in the big numbers. Our CEO's in the Western world. Most of them have really psychologicall problems. This was an outcome from a big and reliable study. Most of the Western CEO's are narcastic and are a bit of a psychopath. They think that they have to ruthless and because of their mentall problems they do not loose one night sleep over firing honest and hard working people. And also not in holding them into a psychologicall grip. But then what really will start to happen is that the " spirit" of a company will get lost. And a screw will not get fixed as it should have been properly fixed. In countries as Japan they are aware of this. Our Western CEO's are most of the time just really useless people who do more harm then good. But it is what it is. And our Western future will become even more black then as it already is. We are walking the completely wrong path. Amen.🙏😎

[@charlessykes6927]

Thanks for your honest opinion , I owed the T7, and all you said is correct, I put on better suspension front and rear, added crash bars and a better bottom bash plate, install better air filter and pre filter, added a thumb cruise control and heated grips, very happy with the bike, also put on the tusk soft panniers and racks, so you can take the bags on on and off with the quick release pin. And have the desert fox gas bag.

[@IAmYourReflection]

Hows the weight after all that? Pretty top heavy feeling?

[@beachamboy11]

I’ve seen more than one video where someone got stranded on a KTM because a sensor or wiring went bad. Besides that, it’s such a cool bike. If reliability wasn’t a priority for me, I’d definitely get one.

[@doublex632]

The power on a KTM just doesn't stop, that's why people love them, thanks for making these videos.

[@gatti493]

This compression ratio is very interesting and a very good point , it also to a small degree explains the Honda Africa Twin and Honda's reliability , the Africa Twin comp. ratio is 10.1.1 , VERY GOOD point sir

[@pgkr67]

High Compression in itself does not shorten enginelife. If the engine is constructed that way from the factory, all other parts are sized for it. Upping the compression on an engine on the other hand will shorten engine life.. Look at diesels, they 18:1 an higher, and diesels will run forever..

[@jamesr5741]

@@pgkr67 Diesels apparently last a lot longer because of increased lubrication. I'm thinking engine life largely depends on lubrication ability/oil changes/ highway vs city/ how thrashed the engine is?

[@dilligafmofoker]

@@pgkr67 Diesels also redline at around 4000 rpm. Their cooling systems are way more efficient too. To your point: the bottom ends are bulletproof.

[@theninja001]

@@pgkr67 well, look at a low compression bike like a Dr 650 compared to a KTM 500, the DR engine lasts a lot longer with less maintenance, and diesels last forever due to low rpm and being vastly overbuilt and heavy.

[@bradsanders6954]

Compression ratios,high or low,,arent immediate indicators of reliability......the engine maker designs it all as a package,top to bottom. The rods and crank and cases are designed to last a long time with the higher CR ratio....it wouldnt make sense otherwise.

[@vistazo9]

Congratulations ! Your straightforward, clear reviews, no hype, like talking with an old friend ! Keep your great videos coming ! 😊😊

[@avneravi4200]

I have test drive a 790 and 890 and really was impressed by everything it did except of the engine at low RPM so I decided buying a T7 which eventually discovered as mistake as I didn’t love at all its high center of gravity and it was hell to pick up when it falls to ground, it also felt to me quite old school and cheep

[@jaygallamore562]

Good comparison - thanks. I am a very satisfied T7 owner. I’m an older rider and don’t ride as aggressively as I did years ago. I also value reliability over performance so all in all the T7 is a good bike for me. I too carry a fuel Rotopax to increase my range. I wish it had cruise control but I can live without it. I purchased an aftermarket tubeless rear wheel; I keep a more street biased tube tire in the OEM wheel and a more trail biased tire on the tubeless. Thanks again - ride safe.

[@ianboyd8685]

Another great, informative & enlightening review. I was also undecided between these two bikes, but ended up buying the 790R. The Port Elizabeth (South Africa) KTM dealership played big part in my final decision. They gave me a very good price for my old 1190, & the 790R ended up cheaper than the T7. I have had some issues with the KTM franchise not honouring their commitments to warranty claims for parts breaking, but the PE dealership once again proved to be the best I have ever dealt with by taking care of those issues for me. I am also quite new to adventure riding, especially the dirt riding aspect, but I am very happy, so far, with my choice. Thanks again for a great, unbiased & honest review

[@RoyClendaniel]

The KTM maintenance thing is a bit of a myth. It may have been that way years ago, but have never had any issues with my KTMs. I've owned 5, and all have been rock solid for years of hard riding with no maintenance issues. The T700 is a good value, but you will want to upgrade the suspension right away and the wheels are not the strongest either. Upgrades can easily take you to KTM cost levels. The KTM 890 R is such a capable off road machine and comes ready for the trail. The wieght is down low and the suspension is superb. Its very confidence inspiring. Unless you absolutely can't afford the added cost, it's the clear winner and would be my choice every time.

[@F1since79]

As always, a great job on the comparison. Two areas you did not address and which tilt in the 890's favor are actual price paid and availability. When I decided to upgrade from my KLR650 early this year, there were no T7s available at the dealers in my area. And, when they came in, they would have $1,500 to $2,500 added to the price. My local KTM dealer had five 890 Rs on the floor. I got mine at MSRP and they threw in an extended warranty. I was leaning 890 anyway, due to the extra tech, the fuel range and the on-road performance. If I had insisted on the T7, I would have spent September watching KZbin videos of the Continental Divide instead of riding it. Perhaps I have just been lucky, but my 890R has given me 7,500 trouble-free miles.

[@mjdailamy4550]

Very simple. KTM ought to be made by Yamaha or Honda. ☺

[@davidmallia628]

Then, I would buy one, straight away. As is, Japanese bikes lack that quantum leap in optimum, design and performance. KTM lacks quality control, and hence reliability.

[@davidmallia628]

There is no perception on reliability. KTM suffers from reliability due to lack of quality control. Get quality control right, and the reliability of KTM will improve immensely.

[@arnohag1]

😂😂😂

[@maxflight777]

Why ?

[@freebehindbars8654]

@@davidmallia628How many KTM’s have you owned?

[@m118lr]

Another objective, well-experienced, researched vid and you just ‘nailed’ the comparison of the 2 bikes. Reliability is a STRONG trait to beat in ANY product, especially when beyond immediate “help”.

[@souhailshamaissem7564]

Another top video . Normally I don't watch long videos anything longer than 7 to 10 minutes but I seem to enjoy your videos because I like the way you run your comparison, it's very thorough.

[@BigRockMoto]

Awesome, thank you!

[@deanpenn5645]

Thanks for a great review of these two popular bikes. Love the detail and common sense, honest comments. Thanks.

[@BigRockMoto]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@onrehabiliteerbareafrikane9808]

Fantastic video with sensible comparisons, which inform the average rider. Happy to report though that after 17500km (mostly off road) on my 890R I've not experienced any of the issues you've mentioned. Love your videos brother.

[@hardblockminer5701]

The 890 r is a beast. It does just want to run, on and off road. I ride a 300xc-w and just picked up an 890 adventure r and I couldn't believe how well it does off road. It's not something you can just toss around like the 300 but it was surprisingly nimble and it ate up the rocks and bumps at speed like they weren't there. I found myself having to actually pay attention and slow down from time to time because a crash with that big of a bike could be bad but it didn't want to go slow.

[@BeatPatrol420]

I just discovered your channel and I have to say... GREAT JOB IAN!! You are by far the most detailed, non-bias and experienced ADV bike reviewer I have ever come across. Thank you for all the hard work. Keep at it!

[@kimomoto]

Very well made comparison. Love what you’re doing! Keep on the good work! A month ago I’ve made a KZbin video on why I changed from the T7 to the 890 advR. For me the main reason was the low centre of gravity.

[@bradsanders6954]

The 3rd gear wheelies are also fun on the 890R. The effortless 4000 rpm cruising is a pleasant way to ride when not in a big hurry. I laugh when walking away from the 890R,every time,too much fun!

[@keesverhagen9227]

@@bradsanders6954 I am constantly thinking about what to do. I own a 1190R. Should i buy a Honda CRF 300 Rally and spend a lot of extra money on it. Or should i trade in the 1190r and go for a 890R ? On my bucketlist is a trip from the Netherlands to Turkey and Iran. 2 till 3 months in the backcountry. And see as much forgotten history as possible. I love the raw power of my current ktm. But it is way to heavy for technicall offroad. Would i be possible to do it all with a 890R ?

[@bradsanders6954]

@@keesverhagen9227 Im getting used to my 890R more after almost 4000 miles,its no lightweight really but is pretty nice on any dirt road Ive taken it on....if you love the power of 1190 a 300 Rally probably wont keep your interest long...a test ride on an 890 would be a good thing. They're a nice bike on or off road.

[@matticusmac6452]

Perfect thoughts and points. Maybe an episode talking about dealership issues. The best KTM/BMW dealer known to man is Eurosport Asheville, if you ever need parts or anything, call and talk to Travis.

[@dustyroads9972]

I watch your channel purely because of your unbiased and honest reviews, great job!

[@BigRockMoto]

thanks

[@DarkmanRides]

Based on your reviews my plans for next year's purchase of a motorcycle had become clearly obvious. Simple clear concise technique for reviews thank you.

[@BIG-K]

Thank you for that excellent, comprehensive and very fair comparison of 3 interesting bikes. I really appreciate the thoroughness of your preparation and coverage. It was very helpful. I now favour the T7 but would prefer tubeless wheels and better suspension. Safe roads!

[@gamingradeon]

Thank you for the side by side comparison of these two great bikes!

[@user-sz3qy8sm4u]

Excellent review! I own a 1250GSA，it’s reliable. But it's too heavy for offroad riding. I want to get the KTM, more funny.

[@stevecrocker6904]

thanks for this. Nice, in depth, useful and well presented. I had a 2014 Vstrom 1000 for 7 years and cannot fault the reliability, rideability, balance etc - a very honest, lovely bike to tour (the attributes the Tenere 700 will have although it's more off the beaten path focused). I traded to a run-out KTM 790 Adventure (standard, not R) because the price for a new Tenere was virtually the same and the Tenere was in short supply anyway). I totally understand the reliability thing but this time I wanted to take the "gamble" in order to get things like cruise control, tubeless tyres and other goodies that the KTM provided. I didn't go in blind - I was willing to trade other things I value for these things I wanted to try. Most of my riding will be sealed roads and decent dirt roads although I'll still do rough stuff to get to somewhere new. I EXPECT some issues down the track but another thing I added to the buying equation was that my standard Adventure won't get the same (mis)treatment as will many of the Rs, where owners seem to want to test the bike's mechanical integrity to the limit- so I'm probably in a better position to minimise potential problems. 3,000 kms now and nothing yet. It's proven a capable and stupendously fuel efficient steed to this point - I've always wanted to get 500+ kms between refills and this will do it quite readily - a boon for covering big distances between outback Australian towns

[@bseidem5112]

Report back after 50,000 kms; keep a list.

[@all-rounder8401]

I really was in 2 thoughts about Tenere vs KTM790 now I've made my choice. Thank you so much for this valuable info. As a previous owner of Tenere 660 and out of it for 2 years, ready to go back in the saddle it has to be the Tenere 700

[@duartegoncalves4984]

Hey thanks for your unbiased comparison, keep up with the good work! Pretty much spot on, same dilemma with me, decided with the T7 all things considered, still waiting for she to arrive though... I've been searching for aftermarket solutions for the T7, bumped in MCcruise electronic cruise control, 22L acerbis fuel tank, higher spring rate for the rear, touratech seat, etc. Aside from suspension, I'm wondering if these upgrades would make the T7 the obvious choice over the 890r, and eventually still keep some money in the pocket for fuel...!

[@WeckforsDiscovery]

Thanks for a great video. I own a 790 ADV R 2020. Love the bike, but having some issues that KTM Sweden refuse to fix. Even that warranty is still valid. Looking for a replacement!

[@Nightros]

Great comparison. Your videos are just getting better one after another. You explained very well that the ktm engine is a more high performance and high rev engine, but maybe you should also have said that the T7 engine provides a more torque engine in low revs when doing a slower pace and more thecnical offroad. In the T7 you can do almost all the tracks in 2nd or 3rd gear. Keep up the good work. Thanks.

[@manybikes]

Totally agree. On the T7 I can close the throttle In 3rd gear all the way down to idle and then tractor out… ANY KTM would have stalled out. Huge difference!

[@wine_country_moto]

Looking forward to you reviewing the Norden 901.

[@alrightdave6135]

It will be unreliable. It s a KTM.

[@paulvanhout9695]

Excellent comparison and detailed; concur with your perspective on KTM quality challenges. Curious to what Honda does with the TransAlp.

[@Motomaniac99]

The KTM’s really rock but your comments on ownership and reliability are soooo true. I have been stranded in the desert twice. Sold my 990 because of issues. My 690 has spent over a month in the shop the internet will tell you all about the issues. It’s a shame because the the reliable Japanese bikes just don’t have the fun factor.. There are a number of well known issues on the KTM’ s but the company doesn’t warranty them as well.

[@istra70]

KTM has development cost transfered on customers.....

[@FadyBujana]

You have become my go to channel for honest-to-God detailed well researched, well rounded rounded reviews and comparisons. Great work! Thanks!

[@SamiNami]

Thanks for being honest. I will probably never buy KTM, the quality / reliability is just unacceptable. Rather just rent one and let the the owner deal with the problems :D

[@bdraidian6280]

Yeah I bought a 2019 790 adventure and while I do love riding the bike everything else is just bullshit. I gotta figure out what I want n I'm trading mine in. I'm thinking the new tiger 900, Vstrom 1050, or maybe even that new harley pan america. Something. But one thing is for sure I'm am sick and tired of the shop having my kTm more than me. Sucks cause like I said I really do love riding the bike.

[@SamiNami]

@@bdraidian6280 Brett Tecks just did a video on the Tiger 900 and had nothing bad to say. That is the one I would have an eye on of the ones you listed. Vstrom will be dead reliaible tho. Harely is tempting, but I will let others find out the kinks so Harley can fix them for the 2nd year model. People are already reporting problems starting the engine.

[@bdraidian6280]

@@SamiNami cool. Awesome. Yeah the tiger was my top pick. I love the looks of the Vstrom. Thanks for the reply.

[@montaego]

@@SamiNami Did you notice the trailer with his name on it? Of course he has nothing bad to say.

[@SamiNami]

@@montaego it seems like his name is edited in there as a joke

[@stephaniemusick171]

Very nice, fair comparison. I could own either bike but the reliability of the T7 is a big deal. The Yamaha CP2 engine was tested by a German outfit and was deemed the most reliable motorcycle engine. The engine has awesome character too. I have a 2020 MT-07, it is a really fun, light weight bike.

[@BigRockMoto]

Well said!

[@EPeltzer]

Engine sound, feel, character, so important, strange that KTM such a letdown there.

[@withoutmalicexo]

Best video. Thanks for doing my homework.

[@amateuradventures9140]

Only thing I will say going to compression ratios. The KTM 790/890 fuel management system can handle low octane fuel. The knock sensor which will detect pre-detonation and correct with ignition timing. But great review! Very in-depth

[@johnandrobinmccoy8305]

Such a informative and common sense review of these bikes. It's huge you have ownership experience with both. You always answer the questions that I have. Well done again!

[@BigRockMoto]

Much appreciated!

[@ajabkhan6402]

Always unbiased, balanced and professionally honest reviews 👍👍.. keep it that way . Blessings

[@nemerkha]

Where i live, the tenere 700 world raid cost me £9995 brand new, and a KTM 890 R was £8995, brand new. I opted for the Tenere for the reasons mentioned in the video - reliability. I sleep much better at night for this. Am very happy with it, looking forward to many dependable miles. I have come from an R1200GSA, and a Tracer 9gt. Althought the 9gt had all the bells and whistles, i dont miss any of the electronics.

[@sanatandharma4435]

I am a returning rider after nearly a decade of too much car use!! I would love a Tenere 700 and think it is the top of my list. However, as a returner even 10,000 dollars is a lot of money. So I will begin on a smaller Honda CRF 300 and hone my skills set as the tenere will be sooo much more capable than me!! Thank you for taking the time to do this video, it is appreciated.

[@Dundertaker1]

Great breakdown. Accurate. The bonus with a KTM is you have a bike that is "basically" off-road-ready for a rider over 165 lbs. with enough adjustability/suspension to do off-road. The downside is you're dealing with KTM bugs. A T700 would take 3-5K in suspension and farkles to make it competitive and then you're still missing some basics like Cruise Control. It's not an easy decision.

[@gomesracer]

Yep… I’m thinking about to get one of the two and I can’t decide…. Every year I do a “big” travel in adventures bikes (1 month without stop), and I can’t decide what is the best… the scary of the reliability of the Ktm or the crappy fuel range of the T7…

[@Dundertaker1]

@@gomesracer I look at KTM's like VOLVO's...they never run right, but they usually are at least running. I met Bret Tkacs in Nashville and we all know his opinion on KTM. I test road a Tiger 900 Rally Pro...if I were in this market and price range it would be on my short list. He just did a video on one. Again...the downside is aftermarket support, reliability, depreciation, etc...but it was an AMAZING bike.

[@Dundertaker1]

p.s. I had to remind my friend with one who was complaining to our BMW friend about the reliability that KTM is Austrian...not GERMAN! :) (Me on my Honda...just sat back and chuckled)

[@Propelled]

Dan, nowhere near that much money. Send the boingers to Noleen for tuning. They charge about $700 and you get perfection.

[@Dundertaker1]

@@Propelled ..."and farkles"

[@michaelcayer8358]

Really enjoy your comprehensive bike reviews, and believe they are among the best on youtube! Great balance between your data analysis and road tests. Also love the intermittent charting and tables - especially great for making quick comparisons of critical data between models. I have heard an increasing number of KTM owners reporting problems with excessive engine heat. To a point where more than a few riders, particularly those doing a lot of stop and go riding in urban traffic, actually suffered first degree burns on their legs, likely facilitated by the lack of air flow, especially on hot summer days. Experience anything similar while operating a KTM 790 or 890? Thanks.

[@bikesbabes4721]

The longer the connecting rod between crank and piston, the smaller the crank angle. The smaller the crank angle reduce secondary vibrations and dont require large piston skirts, reducing piston mass and wear. If you want a silky smooth Tenere, you get a tall engine. If you want a sleek & slender profile bike, it will lay down flat. If you want to limit weight, fuel capacity is the price, If you want reliability, dont insist on immature electronic tech. If you want to ride the T7, and use your dirt bike for dirt biking, you may not notice whatever is wrong with the suspention - I dont. On my bike, the side stand was the first mod. I made it shorter. Then I dropped the bike to 32" . Its easy to do and it remedies the feeling of top heaviness when one can flat foot your bike. (or I got used to it?) When I lived in Australia, I added a long range fuel tank due to distances (XT660R) In Africa towns are closer together, no need for larger tank. 16x25=400km. By keeping consumption at or below 25km/l will give 400 km range for those days you need it. 25km/l is achievable, depending on route, racks and conditions. Its perfections & flaws relates quite a bit to the application, and lets face it, we often start itching for no good reason. That's OK.

[@mcnuggetapple]

It’s funny even after seeing reliability concerns all over the place I still can’t take KTM off my possible next bike list

[@somequestions8375]

Enjoyed you video - very objective........ compliments. I'm doing Vladivostok to Europe next year and was wondering about doing it on an 890R (vs my 1250) but my biggest concern is reliability (.....actually peace of mind). When I did Southern Africa, the US and the Middle East I was not concerned about reliability. Stay well and ride safe.

[@shanesilver421]

Going to interject that you should definitely post videos/pics if you have a channel. Sounds like an awesome ride.

[@gomesracer]

And what bike you will use? The 890? I’m thinking about getting the 890r or the t7, and, omg! I can’t decide… I travel a lot around Europe every years, a lot of kms off-road and highway, the t7 fuel range is so frustrating, but the reliability of the 890r kills me…

[@chrisgraham887]

Excellent review as always! Considering the T7 over my V-Strom 650 but I do spend more time on the road than off.

[@harrybenson9983]

Own a 2019 KTM 790R. So far no issues with it after 7000 miles. But I have talked with a few other 790 owners who have experienced failures of one sort or the other. The old yarn on buying any sort of motorized vehicle was to find out whether it was assembled in the factory on a Friday if you could. The 790 I own has been recalled twice. Once for the rear brake and once for the front brakes. KTM used their own design instead of Brembo probably to save money which probably seemed like a good idea at the time. After both recalls I'll bet their management regret that decision. Visual appeal definitely goes to the T700. The KTM 790/890 is a quirky looking motorcycle.

[@nyadver256]

I own a KTM 790R. He has totally nailed the bike, the pros/cons, the ownership experience. KTM banks on people to expect less of a good dealership and ownership experience in lieu of best of breed performance. They dont have to, but they do. Dealers suck. Luckily my bike has been hugely reliable after 5000k miles. Zero issues with a good portion off road. Great review. I would buy either bike and for the exact reasons he listed on both sides.

[@paulcamino5034]

Good review, I just got my first adventure bike, coming from small dual sport dirt bikes, it400, cr250,wr250r,drz400e,yz250fx and the 28000mi 2013wr250r is my favorite, here is my review with 2500miles on the T7, first what I like, motor very good, suspension very good by just changing clickers to rebound 10 out and compression 6 out and preload cranked hard, for me handles good on dirt and road, yamaha reliability, like the styling, what I don't like, seams the bars are to far from the seat, its heavy, if you riding it hard and by accident you get on gnarly rocks, roots, dirt and your picking good lines doing very good then it happens, you drop it, your by yourself, now you realize your on a very hard trail over your head, you drop it again and again, get stuck in a mud hole, wow did I say heavy, Talking to myself the whole time, what was I thinking, I think maybe just get one of them new 300 from honda or Kawasaki just put a windscreen and call it my advernture bike, just saying

[@ssmith954]

"I hope they (KTM) will work out these issues...." They probably won't. I own a KTM 690 Enduro R. Great bike, fairly light and powerful and great for extended dirt roads. However I don't think I would buy another KTM. My bike has only given me a couple of issues (fuel pump failure being one), and overall it's easy to work with. What gets me though is they've had fuel pump issues since they released the model in 2009. Mine was a 2017 model and they should have fixed the issue by then. I also found the wiring loom to be badly terminated/poorly protected, and there are other known weak spots for which you are basically expected to buy expensive aftermarket parts to resolve, when they would cost a couple of dollars if they fixed them at the time of manufacturing (such as stronger subframe bolts, fragile fuel filler cap that lets dust in...). All they seem to do each year is change the stickers, whereas it should be evolving into a bulletproof adventure/enduro platform right out of the box. As you correctly said, they prioritize performance and weight over reliability.

[@shuttzi9878]

Well, I mean the more they play on your heart strings with amazing riding capability, great sound, agressive design and all that gets ur emotions rise, better the chances that u'd buy another one few yrs down the line if not earlier. That is, unless u know what u value. Meanwhile if a manufacturer designs a bulletproof machine with the same performance u wouldn't have any reason to put any money into it, much less buying another one. Just pure consumerism 🍊🍋 Same can be said about Yamaha but in a different way. The way Yamaha makes money is out from modifications, licensing and pure brand awareness. They're undoubtly the most marketable Motorcycle brand around so they don't need to do much but just to release a good product that's as moddable as it's commercially viable once every 2-3 yrs and the product basically sells itself. Their machines are tuned to be reliable and fun but certainly not to be the best cuz that's where U, the consumer, comes in. ; ) Yamaha concept of Motorcycling is basically one of the few rn that could survive the apocalypse and that's because its adaptable, customizable and elastic, thus it feels more human and alive, KTM can't do that yet since they're not as recognizable nor big compared to the Japanese giants so they took more of a consumerism route. It works now but few yrs down the line some changes will be made Looking at how the world is now. Meanwhile they will still be making SUPERB machines with doubtable reliability cuz that's what's sells.

[@alexanderzhulin3528]

To be fair they've addressed a lot of stuff too rocker arms, fuel cap, clutch slave cylinder e.t.c. - 2021 is much more reliable and overall better machine then 2009. Plus I suspect 690/701 is a very niche bike that that does not sells in big numbers, changing things it much more expensive then couple of bucks.

[@ssmith954]

@@alexanderzhulin3528 That's a good point - I forgot about the rocker arms. I thin They were fixed by the time got mine but I still have spares in case. What is annoying is that each time they bring out a new model they have a tendency to quietly "fix" these issues without saying so -- I mean you never get a comprehensive list of improvements or changes that shows some level of transparency and would give you more confidence in the brand.

[@nigelwolfe6150]

@@alexanderzhulin3528 How can subframe bolrs and clutch slave cylinder O ring issue etc? How the heck NOT NOT be a couple buck issues??....seriously? I mean supposedly they FINALLY did something with the slave cylinder but not the first time I heard that either It bothers me how care less the company seems to be about important things....like charging money to make the 690 safe in the dirt...you have to PAY for a "dong;e" to insure you have back brake.....THAT is like criminal if you ask me

[@istra70]

KTM transfered the cost of development and quality control to future customers.... Anyone in rush for sponsoring them?

[@markg7834]

One of the best comparison tests I've seen. Excellent work!

[@mrcreative6020]

Another great review Ian. I sold my KTM 790 adventure R, and I’m now shopping around for T7, simply because of the reliability factor. I only wish it had tubeless tires and a more comfortable seat.

[@therealgstroker]

I still carry a tube for my tubeless tires as a last resort. 21 fits fron and rear in a pinch and will seat the bead enough to ride

[@stonedmonkey59]

Anything you own has issues, especially with tech. I love your straight up reviews. You go more in depth than anyone else

[@toneloc747]

Great review! Especially liked that you touched on the compression ratios and fuel…something I never would have thought of or considered. Cheers.

[@pgkr67]

Compression rating is not biggie when the engine is built for it. Think diesel engines. They run 16-22 to 1 compression rate, and they last a long time. In terms of fuel. Both the 790 and the 890 has knock sensors. If you fill up with low octane fuel, it will handle it..

[@JoeJ523]

I’ll stick with my 2021 Yamaha T7. The only thing is I wish it wasent so top heavy. I also had to install lowering links and I moved the front fork tubes up 1 1/2”-2” up so the front would match the rear. I am 5’8” tall so that’s a must for me.

[@naanon9427]

Perhaps one of the most thorough, unbiased, and intelligent motorcycle comparison videos I have ever seen, which is what the average consumer wants. Thumbs up. Quite frankly, I would choose the Tenere 700 for its reliability. but which it had cruise control, color TFT, quick shift, and Tubeless Tires. Even that long travel suspension might not seem to be necessary for urban riding, you should see some of the roads I have to ride on here in the midwest ! Bumps that make you go OUCH ! I would love to see you do one on a bike I am considering(, 2022 Yamaha Tracer 9 after a a few months of ownership, but that is a different, less dirt oriented bike than what you are into, so not likely.

[@BigRockMoto]

thanks

[@burkerow]

I've had plans to buy a new bike for the next riding season. I've had my eye on the T7 but they are impossible to find. Now I've been vacillating back and forth between the T7 and 890. I literally can't make up my mind. I've decided that which ever one makes it self available by spring, I'll buy.

[@istra70]

Check AJP Pr7

[@gabriellaporro6183]

I own a 790 S since Aug 2020 ...I find your analysis very accurate. Fantastic Bike , but I had problems with front brake though. Both discs were replaced under warranty . I had many Hondas before...I was not prepared for this kind of issues. As you said, we all Hope KTM will work more on reliability.

[@gabriellaporro6183]

Exactly the very same experience I had !!!

[@dude6546]

Coming from a Honda I think I'll join team blue. Can't be arsed dealing with such issues. Rather go slower and get there than strand going faster.

[@justinlewis8889]

Great video. This really helped me decide. I’m a reliability guy. Thank you!

[@DanBlake3rd]

I had a 2011 1190 Adventure and loved riding it. But it suffered from a lot of little problems, the worst of which, an oil leak, that took a year for the dealer to solve. I eventually sold it for that reason. Then I owned a 2016 Husky 501 FE, and it had similar issues. It's sad to hear that KTM hasn't solved their QC issues, because their bikes are really fun to ride. You make a good point about weight vs reliability.

[@twowheelpilot]

100% agree. That is why I moved from KTM after 20+ years. Just constant issues, big and small. Fun to ride and I do love KTM but enough is enough. My 350 XCF even snapped it's swing arm!

[@twowheelpilot]

Yep Friends bike snapped it's 1190R frame also. He does ride it hard off road to be fair but I would expect a "hardcore" off road brand like KTM to take a good G out with falling apart. KTM have had a heap of issues with the porous engine cases. Might explain your oil leak? Of was it something else the dealer found?

[@everythingtenere]

Great deep dive! One thing I would like to add, comparing to 790. The T7 is way easier to go slow off road, lugs so much better and hard to stall. But otherwise I agree on all your points. Iwe upgraded suspension to RallyRaid front and rear, it’s like day and night, but also very pricy.

[@rodrigomrp3004]

Very perceptive and keen comparison, thanks, man! Beyond the superb Yamaha reliability, I also appreciate your concern on access to quality gas in remote countries. In short, for "world travelers", who don't priorize speed and high performance over scenery, the T7 beats all the way!! Greetings 🇧🇴

[@dasboot9471]

Nobody who rides either needs even the horsepower that the Tenere has. Let's be real. Most KTM riders I've met have more money than brains, and even less in the riding skills department, same goes for most Doucheati owners lololol

[@nspinicelli]

You can really tell how much thought and care you put in to your presentation. We’ll done, subscribed!

[@BigRockMoto]

Thanks

[@toddbenfield6546]

Own a 2018 KTM 1090 Adventure R, and not one issue besides the fuel gauge recall in 8000 miles👍now for my 690 Enduro R, having clutch issues! Slave went out, and now it’s slipping👎KTM has a recall on the slave, but $1000 later after replacing the slave, and clutch plates , still slipping! Hopefully the recall can get this ironed out! Makes you want reliability, and scared to go out again on the 690

[@wilfmoss5242]

Excellent review! I think the 790/890 is just so revolutionary and ahead of its time, that's maybe why KTM struggled with the reliability. I had a couple of issues with mine but I still absolutely love that bike. It's an acquired taste though. First impression is that it looks and sounds terrible. But it just grows on you. I plan on keeping mine for a very long time. Thanks again for the review.

[@Driftuner]

There is nothing revolutionary or ahead of its time about this bike. Everything they did to it has been done before. That is absolutely no excuse for bad quality.

[@bradsanders6954]

I nearly bought a T7. They're non existent so I didnt. 6 months later they still dont exist...None.........But I bought an 890R and holy moly its the funnest bike Ive ever owned. I ended up really liking the electrical package,and the HP,and the torque,and the great handling,even the stock seat works,I dont want it to be a trailbike so the weight of either doesnt matter that much..Is 450 or 470lbs middleweight? Middle of what? 1000 lbs almost? Too big both of them to be any sort of trail or dirtbike. Any dirt road is fine but I'll take a 2 stroke for trail riding anyday....which saves me the trouble of trying to turn my 890R into something it will never be,a great off roadbike.

[@juergenullrich3928]

BEST Comparison of these 2 bikes I ever saw! Congratulation!

[@mototaco2132]

As a KTM 1090 owner, and riding buddies with KTM 790 & 890s, you're spot on with your review. My biggest complaint on my 1090 is 1) being top heavy 2) heat rising up. Being top heavy, I dare not to ride along in remote dirt roads.

[@michaelhayward7572]

$10k for a new T7 is a steal. Yamaha make a Rally version with a bigger tank for $500 more. Then make an SP version with Ohlins adjustable front and rear suspension, sell it for $12k. A range of 3 T7's. No need to add TC, nor power modes, nor a TFT. One of the reasons this bike is a WORLDWIDE best seller is because "keep it simple, stoopid"... oh and it is actually a true dual sport....

[@JohannesDalenMC]

I agree with most of your points, but no bike at 200kg with the weight up high can be called a true dual sport 😉

[@miclinda256]

Depends on the rider! 💪Some People with 300 pound motorcyles have problems

[@gasolinedreams2691]

I wish when people talked about the pricing they would talk about the “dealer fees” too so we can get a better idea of whether or not we’re getting a good deal. The dealer fees add significantly to the price of a bike.

[@stopper90004]

And the sales tax... 11% in LA

[@bluejfpv7876]

So my first bike is a 2021 Ktm890S, which I've turned mostly into an R model. Since day one I received mine with 9k miles for 10.2k but had now over 3 times where some the problems above you mentioned and this last one which almost cost me my life throttle sticking in 3rd gear... The live-wire throttle bodie failed... and ktm mechanics stumbled even at ktm. Replaced a wire and housing electronics covered all under warranty until Sept 2023. Just went to the dealer to swap for a more reliable tenere700 t7. Less electronics, less risk. Thank you for your reviews!

[@SmokinZen]

I am happy with my T7 today I sat on an 890 and it felt really nice and somehow felt easier to handle the lower center of gravity is very clever.

[@JuddDredge]

Great review man. I appreciate your detailing of the unique things you noticed about each bike. I think some riders will prefer the KTM based on your review, and others will prefer the Yamaha, based on the same review. FYI: I'm probably going the Yamaha route.

[@BigRockMoto]

Thanks for watching!

[@Porsche996driver]

We saw your recent ride over the rocky surfaces on the Yamaha. I was worn out just watching ha. A lot to be said for the better KTM suspension. The KTM saddle tanks are brilliant - they mimic a Boxer motor. Great thorough review, to save $3k or not, that is the question ha.

[@twowheelpilot]

I agree but the KTM suspension still needs work. If you have to modify both then what does it matter. The Yamaha is still less to start with. Never owned a ADV bike that hasn't needed suspension work for proper off road work.

[@svd31garage]

@@twowheelpilot The options for T7 suspension now IMO makes it handle much better than the KTM when you spend the difference on upgrades, all with zero of the reliabilty issues or breakdown of fancy electronics which have done very miserably here in Australia.

[@freidrichnietzsche6643]

The elephant in the closet is still the 30hp difference.

[@coreypaynter4011]

Your videos sold me on the 700cc tenere yamaha. Gonna be funny learning it but a blast! I hope

[@thomdude9168]

Great info and I appreciated the comparison. I now know which I will buy.

[@chrisvantassel8867]

This is why I bought a Husky 701. Lighter, adjustable suspension. I added a piggy back computer for more power, turned it into a Dakar style bike. Does great on the freeway, amazing off-road. There is no all around solution but these 3 choices are the closest. If Yamaha added a better suspension and some tech that would be the way to go IMHO.

[@teamtls]

Another great review! Thank you.

[@powerswearingfluids]

instant subscribe, on par with 44teeth channel, great straight forward expert analysis and 0 nonsensical hype

[@BigRockMoto]

thanks

[@danielhusain7570]

11:16 in, this video is so valuable to me as a new rider buying my first bike. The differences are summarised and explained so I can understand and compare. Compression ratios, IMU, tyres types... Hadn't yet managed to consider these.

[@paulherron4289]

Well said I have a KTM 300 XC great bike....... never left me on the trail but it’s had its problems. For an ADV bike I’ll stick with the Japanese. May not be “Ready to Race” but always ready to ride!

[@istra70]

and always bring you home.

[@pieterbritz977]

Good objective info. Don't own any of the two in discussion, but appreciate the neutral opinion. Well done. South Africa. 👍

[@larrydykes7643]

Really good review! Densely packed info all the way through. In fact this is the most info in the fewest minutes I can remember seeing. Thank you for valuing our time!

[@nathanboeger978]

Nice review! I have only had 1 KTM a 1290 SuperAdventure the first generation. I took it on many trips some months long. I had no issues but I understand many do. I sill loved that bike and the only bike I like more than the 890-R is the Norden 901.

[@BigRockMoto]

Thanks for sharing!

[@ericredpath3908]

Sounds like the T-7 would be best for me , and as my skills improve I could upgrade the suspension if I find myself wanting or needing more difficult terrain.

[@DHolmquistDesigns]

For a newer rider the KTM would actually be heaps safer. Better suspension and handling are safety things not just performance. You can mess up and recover much easier on a bike built to perform better. Every experienced rider will tell you this. Get the KTM if you have the $$$ 100%

[@wandaddy1412]

Great video. I honestly went back and forth about which to buy and it came down to having positive previous experience with owning a KTM and the lack of availability of the T7. I bought a 2020 790 Adventure S and I love it so far with 4K miles on it.

[@KillSwitch80]

How much did you pay OTD if you don’t mind me asking?

[@wandaddy1412]

@@KillSwitch80 I payed $11,600 for the bike and added the quick shifter, cruise, and rally software. I think that added another $900 or so. So with taxes and assembly I think it was under $14,000

[@limoselect]

I was looking for the Tenere but the tube turn me down. Have spend a season with my 890 S, I discover the bike and I love it!

[@jedielder7970]

Very good points regarding compression ratio, and the various consequences. It's no secret that many Japanese motorcycles are very reliable. Another good video... thank you.

[@BigRockMoto]

Well said!