Bill Gothard's Surprising Connections to the New Age and Prosperity Teachings.

[@natashamiller4860]

The one thing I love, respect and appreciate about Jinger SO much is how she calls out the false, unbiblical teachings she was raised to believe while simultaneously showing respect and honor to her parents. In these situations we frequently see that, as they step away from those teachings, they frequently throw parents, siblings, teachers, etc under the bus and walk right over then rather than demonstrating the love and honor we are commanded to show our parents, those in authority, etc. I applaud her for her mature, Christ-like approach!

[@joanschutter5863]

Gothard taught that you shouldn't adopt children or you would bring evil into your home. When I told a fellow homeschooler mom (who was involved in the Gothard movement) that I wanted to adopt, she told me that would be a big mistake. I wish now I would have said, "That's too bad you think that way because I was adopted!" (- into Jesus' family) 🙂

[@kathierouse6046]

Hi, Joan! Is it a coincidence that the Scriptures clearly teach that His followers are expected to meet the needs of widows and orphans? No! He never forbid adoption. Also, let's not forget that in the Book of Acts, the early followers of the Way found babies and children as strays because they were abandoned by the pagans. So the followers took the babies and children home and raised them and loved them. What a shame that Gothard did not seem to know this! Besides, God has a special spot in His heart for the neglected and abandoned. 😢

[@thesparrow3902]

Where did you get your information? I've gone to several of Bill Gothard's seminars and never did he teach against adoption. Are you sharing hearsay? or, do you have an actual reference that can be verified? If you have nothing that others can verify, then you should not be saying that.

[@Mike65809]

@@thesparrow3902 He strongly discouraged it. I did read it and it may have been in his Making wise Medical Decisions series.

[@teejaymz742]

Yikes! Wasn’t Moses adopted by Pharaoh’s daughter? Wasn’t Samuel adopted by Eli the high priest? Aren’t all Christians adopted into God’s family? Of course, adoption comes with risks, but there’s risks in having children of one’s own, for that matter. This teaching is ridiculous.

[@brookeschultz5037]

@@thesparrow3902 Why are you following this evil 👿 man?!

[@letitbee7248]

I was raised in the WOF movement from a very young child starting in the early 1970's. My mother was into Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts, Robert Tilton, etc. On top of that, our church took us all to the Bill Gothard week-long seminar every summer. All this legalistic, prosperity gospel really messed up my idea of who God really was. As a result, I turned to New Age teachings for many years. Recently, I discovered Dr. Michael Heiser and he helped me see what the Bible is REALLY teaching. I've completely turned away from New Age and God is changing me from the inside out. All glory to the Most High!

[@SpaceCadet4Jesus]

I think you made a mistake. Kathryn Khulman wasn't anywhere near being a WOF preacher, nor the typical tele-evangelist. A biography of her was written "Daughter of Destiny. As for the real WOF and other televangelist, I wouldn't go near them.

[@tarabowling1624]

Love Dr. Heiser!❤

[@haileymontgomery3659]

I am surprised you were raised in the WOF movement and went to Gothard's seminars. I always viewed them as totally different. But now I am definitely seeing similarities!!

[@letitbee7248]

@@lovesdailygrace Thank you so much for the church tips! I visited the Calvary Chapel church this past Sunday and was really impressed with how the Pastor brought the message much like Dr. Heiser did with Greek and Hebrew roots, as well as cultural explanations. I'll definitely go back. You're right about sticking around after the service. I didn't do that because I felt awkward but I'll make a point to speak with someone the next time I go. It's a small church so it shouldn't be too difficult to speak to the Pastor. Thank you for the encouragement and thank you for taking the time to share your story. I'm so glad that you found a good church near you, too! God bless you!!!

[@loriannkruithof2043]

​@@letitbee7248 Can I please ask what WOF/NAR stands for? I love Katherine Kuhlman... Kenneth Hagin...

[@GratiaPrima_]

“Disentangling faith from fear.” Love that! The Bible is clear to “be not afraid” all through it.

[@cat-bg3rv]

The only fear a Christian should have is the fear of The Lord. ☺

[@Laura-dc3vi]

The BIBLE states 365X "Fear Not"... Which equals once EVERY Day of the year for us😏🕊️🙏❣️

[@GratiaPrima_]

@@Laura-dc3vi yup, yup! 😉

[@JhutaNabi]

@@Laura-dc3vi Truth! f*ar should be an eff word in Christian circles. Faith is trust that God WILL come through. F*ar is actually trust that God WON’T come through.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

​​@@JhutaNabi and yet God mentions it so many times because he knows fear is part of being human. When our bodies feel fear our limbic system readies to fight or flee. Pretty useful if someone is about to try to attack you violently. It's a warning sign in your body to get back from fear to a place of peace and trust in him. Denying fear is not helpful when you face an abuser or a violent person. You ought to feel fear and then react appropriately and get back to peace and trust in God. God made fear real so that we can act appropriately. Staying stuck in it is a problem. Feeling it is not.

[@tammyoeding8161]

The falling away from "church hurt" is real... I had this too, not falling away from faith but church. We are the church, Jesus lives and the Holy Spirit is in us ❤

[@ifyouloveChristyouwillobeyhim]

Ask your heavenly Father to provide you a good church. He will not withhold any good from his children, if you pray with faith and within God's will you will receive. I'm not saying you should be a name-it-and-claim-it-faith person and pray to God like you're asking a genie in a bottle. But I am encouraging you to not give up, like the persistent widow. I can tell you from personal experience that there are churches out there that are so godly and full of love, you will not be able to thank God enough for the blessings. Only keep looking and don't give up. The healing that can come from a good church is so much more powerful than the hurt that can come from a bad one. I just pray you will have faith because I've been so blessed beyond description by the mercy and kindness I've received from my local church.

[@kimcolvin8805]

I appreciate this! It's wrong to label any Christian deconstructing as someone who leaves the Church. The people I know who have deconstructed have not left their faith and do a better job showing the love of Christ than anyone I know, including myself.

[@tammyoeding8161]

@@ifyouloveChristyouwillobeyhim Thank you I'm looking at a Bible believing church 35 minutes from my home. I've been watching them on line. Not a mega church. My spirit tells me to try it🤗🙌

[@ifyouloveChristyouwillobeyhim]

@@tammyoeding8161 Thank God, I pray he directs you to a good church and I'm thankful you are moving toward looking for one.

[@jonibrown4427]

🙏 Ame

[@DearGodPodcast]

No matter what you are going through right now, God will get you through it. We are praying for everyone reading this! ✝️

[@hisnewlife3543]

That’s easy to put in a comment section, isn’t it.

[@megalyon]

This was very interesting, I was expecting her to be bitter or snarky but she was so open, gracious and honest that it was a real pleasure to listen to 🙏🏾

[@darlenegreen5171]

Unlike her older sister

[@Brego100]

I felt the same way about her book. It exceeded my expectations!

[@10529Erin]

Yes, she's a picture of Christ's forgiveness and heart for the lost. A great example for all of us as we all have to disentangle from something at some point.

[@NikkiSchumacherOfficial]

Jinger Vuolo is making me so happy with all these interviews. I’ve been arguing with people like the transformed wife for years about the gothard problems and jinger’s story is going to help so many people. She’s already helping so many to get out of legalism through her sharing her testimony. I read the book right away and could NOT be more fired up for how much this is going to help.

[@Megz207]

Fully agree. ❤

[@michelleanderson7828]

Ugh...the transformed wife is a train wreck!

[@MultiSignlanguage]

I agree. I’ve learned about the Transformed wife and she is so legalistic also. It’s heartbreaking

[@RosilindJukic]

Yes, this is so refreshing. We are also ex-ATI (though we did not cling to Gothard's every word and left for many of the reasons she states here). The Transformed Wife is so damaging in many ways. So critical and judgemental. It's sad when I see believers forget Paul's words, "Let your GENTLENESS be evident to all." They do so damage for God's kingdom.

[@bradpeters5508]

So you argue with the transformed wife and your the correct one? If she wasn’t speaking truth you would not be moved to argue. You’d just ignore her page and find better things to do with your life… like read the Bible.

[@luv2travel2000]

Our church went to the Basic Youth Conflicts seminars in the 1970s. As believers, we believed the word and really cared about one another. Several people went to the mission field. It was 3 years in a row we went to BYC seminars. For myself and our youth group it had a very postive outcome. The youth really took it seriously to follow the word more deeply. BYC was the springboard for that. In my life it had a positive impact also of following the word when it comes to forgiveness. Even 10 years later I referred back to the BYC textbook, and read the word, and it helped me to forgive people. After those 3 seminars I never followed what happened to Bill Gothard. It completely shocked me when it came out that the teachings had strayed from the Word, had become legalistic and Bill Gothard had become immoral. It certainly is sobering that someone can start out well and go astray in the wrong direction and far away from what the Word teaches. Ultimately we need to follow the Word, develop a close relationship with the Father and not put our trust in man.

[@luv2travel2000]

Proverbs 3:5-7 5. Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.”

[@deborahrech7429]

I had the same experience in the 70s and am surprised to hear that Bill Gothard had since gone off the rails.

[@luv2travel2000]

@@deborahrech7429 Yes. It is a good reminder how we need to stay in the word and remain humble before the Father.

[@michellepeterson6320]

I had a positive experience, but it was a conference as well. Any person or teaching can become an idol to people. The Word of God doesn't return void. I understand these things are complicated and uncomfortable, and there is hurt, error and man's sin at play, but we can't dehumanize people.

[@imaamericangirl1406]

@@luv2travel2000”it will be healing to thy flesh and refreshment to thy bones.”

[@mariafusco7899]

I was a young Christian in the late 1970's when our young adult group attended Gothard's Institute for Basic Youth Conflicts on recommendation of our church elders. One lovely memory is that as we were leaving the conference, we all prayed together, dedicating our lives for service, right there on the sidewalk. When we finished praying, there was a rainbow in the sky. We were so excited, we prayed again, and when we looked up there were two rainbows. The reason why I even mention this, is that before we went to this conference, we were a praying, Bible-studying, caring group of believers. After this conference, things changed dramatically. People became more judgmental, backbiting, gossiping. The group became splintered, instead of the unified in Jesus fellowship we once were. I left the church, moved on to Bible school and service, but it is not until I have heard your discussion that I have been led to wonder how much of Bill Gothard seeped into the minds of our group that it destroyed what we had.

[@catrice7126]

I was too but I was happy with what I was learning in my church so I never felt led to go to these meetings

[@SpaceCadet4Jesus]

As a newly born Christian wanting to find my place and group, I heard about a popular Christian man named Jim Jones. Soon, he was moving with his church to Guyana. I didn't think it was a good idea at the time. Headlines were made and I feared every Christian group thereafter, especially the ones who wanted to disciple new and committed Christians. Along comes Heaven's Gate and here we go again. Since I moved every 3 or 4 years, I was afraid I'd meet up with some wacked group along the way. I'm not into the judgemental backbiting gossiping that seems to invariably happen and I've seen in regular churches. I stand wary.

[@cathicross7819]

I was forced to go to this seminar every year. I used to argue with my dad about Gothard's legalistic teachings. My dad was so biblically knowledgeable and wise, it just shocked me that he did not see through this garbage. Even still, it affected my thinking about God, And it took some years to "disentangle" it, to use Ginger's word. This is the first I am hearing someone else say what I had been trying to say. Ginger's graciousness is a beautiful testament to God's grace.

[@mcgheebentle1958]

If you’re open to sharing and if you know, what does your dad say about Gothard these days? Is he still holding on to the teachings?

[@missmel9605]

I read Jinger’s book and had never realized just how much I was impacted by the exact same teachings growing up! I still struggle with fear because of it. To hear her put it all into words was amazing & revealed so much! I think a lot of people had similar teachings in their churches growing up. So glad she’s speaking out & sharing truth! I think a lot of people will find freedom through her book.

[@kimreed2489]

I really can relate. I was hugely impacted by Gothard's teachings growing up. I'm 49 now and still healing. Praise God, I'm now in a wonderful church and am coming to grasp the truths of the depths of Christ's love for me! I love Jinger's emphasis too on looking to Jesus and the Word of God and not man. Blessings to you, Miss Mel!

[@jclilstar1973]

Thanks for sharing this. I got saved at a church that was very legalistic and controlling. My kids walked away from the Lord as they became adults due to this. I thank God that God showed me the truth about him as I am in a heathy relationship with Christ and placed me in a bible believing church. Im praying for my daughter to come back to the Lord.

[@GraceOnly3]

Same here, Felicia. And praying for my adult daughters too -

[@suestephan3255]

Maybe ask your daughter to read Jinger’s book. Gift her a copy. May God draw her back to Himself.

[@suestephan3255]

Jinger a ray of hope!!!

[@wickedwonka9155]

Why would she want to if you taught her that the Lord was a bully?

[@jonibrown4427]

The same thing happened to me. My kids fell away. They say they are saved but do not have Jesus in their everyday life. I feel like it was all my fault. No pants, no coed swimming, etc. I would hear that if my husband wasn't saved yet it was my fault. I didn't get saved until we were married for 5 yrs. Legalism is so harmful. So glad for Ginger. I am going to get her book!!

[@mwoolf35]

So many parallels to my 39 years in Mormonism. Thanks for such a great interview!

[@nancybr2536]

What a beautiful spirit Jinger has, so genuine and sweet. Great conversation.

[@RoseSeaCottageLife]

I just ordered her book. I watched the Duggar's a lot and followed their story quite a bit. I was saddened by everything that transpired with Josh and then I started researching what it was they actually believed and lived by without them directly stating this is what we believe and it blew my mind. My adopted mom would criticize my parenting of my two sons and comment that I should be more like Michelle. When I started researching what it was they believed it broke my heart that my mom would insist that I be like someone else when I am not them. I am looking forward to reading her book as I too have been a product of legalism and abuse by the church and those claiming to follow similar principles as Bill Gothard. I love the word disentangle! That is the perfect word to describe the messy and yes, very painful, extraction of non-biblical teaching and renewing your mind on the basis of the scripture alone. I have been born again since I was 6 and have grown so much but the more I learn and grow the more I realize just how much I don't understand or have been taught wrongly. Having come out of the evangelical movement, I have a burning desire for those in it that they would use their Bibles to test everything that is told to them and to listen to the Holy Spirit when he starts pointing out the red flags and to run to the arms of the True Shepherd! Jesus has never let me go and he is the only one to (as Jinger stated) "give your soul rest!"

[@heidim5693]

Excellent thoughts!

[@breenarnianwarhorse5051]

The sincere, gentle, honest, truth-speaking hearts of all three of these women are beautiful to hear. Thank you for sharing, all of you.

[@louannhawkins4569]

Thank you for this interview. My husband and I went to a Bill Gothard seminar on our honeymoon because his dad had wanted us to attend before marriage! So glad you “disentangled” yourself. We raised our children with the hope that because we were teaching them right, they would all turn out “perfect”. I’m so glad the LORD has rescued us from this thinking.

[@Jaymze13]

Yikes. 🤯 I knew of a couple who went to a pentecostal youth camp for their honeymoon (the husband insisted), but I think you just took the prize......whether you wanted it or not. 😱

[@dvferyance]

You do know that Bill Gothard has never been married himself? I wouldn't go to him for any marital advise.

[@annewythington8359]

I went to Bill Gothard seminars and shared with my Mom, a psychologist and she was shocked at the brainwashing aspect of it. I love and so appreciate your video, thank you!!!🎉🎉🎉

[@godmightyfortress1232]

This was super helpful. Not only do I live miles away from Gothard's former HQ, but a week before my wedding, my husband and I attended a Basic Life Institute conference. Even though I wasn't yet a biblical Christian, I somehow had the discernment to see that this was not on par with what I had learned about Jesus. I'm so glad you're bringing truth to light. Way to go!

[@nopandakit8051]

This is what I prayed for the Duggars to find. I loved the show because it portrayed a conservative Christian family. Then I saw how connected they were to Gothard. You can see the true heart of God in their attitudes, but they were adding things that God did not require. Every Christian should be taught to judge every word from a preacher or teacher against the word of God. I was taught that from a young age, and it has kept me from following people instead of following God. Its a difficult thing to search Gods Word for every belief. Its so much easier to follow a charismatic person. But truth only comes from God.

[@gregzimmerman2431]

Excellent video! As a young Christian growing up the the 1980s, I too got confused by both New Age and prosperity gospel teaching. The late Christian author Dave Hunt helped me find my way out of these. Two outstanding books he wrote helped me navigate out of these heresies: (1) Peace, Prosperity and the Coming Holocaust (1983) and (2) The Seduction of Christianity (1985).

[@AnnaWestfalia]

When I became an adult I distance myself from ATI, but I still had no idea how deep some of the teaching sunk into my belief system. One example was when I gave birth to twins prematurely. One of the twins at 2months in the NICU passed away. Instead of thinking I was blessed that I had anytime with her and further still her sister survived I thought maybe God was punishing me for some sin I didn't know I had done somewhere in my life. As soon as I started picking that belief apart I was confronted by a volunteer in the NICU who went to Joel Osteen's church. He said essentially if I had enough faith I wouldn't have lost my daughter and if I have enough faith I wouldn't lose my other daughter. It's there I made the connection that the prosperity gospel and what I had been taught in ATI were one and the same.

[@kimalonzo3363]

Wow, that's awful about what you were told.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

If Jesus and the disciples had 'enough faith', would they all not have suffered crucifixions beheadings and deaths?

[@kimalonzo3363]

@@KJ-lb4tj Jesus came to earth to be crucified for our sins. That was prophesied in the old testament. He wasn't trying to escape it.

[@lizajane2971]

​@@kimalonzo3363 I think the point KJ was making was that if suffering only happens to those who don't "have enough faith" then surely Jesus and His disciples wouldn't have had to suffer, but they did... So it follows that faith doesn't equal a life free from suffering.

[@lizajane2971]

Sorry for your loss! 💔

[@jcarley99]

As someone who grew up in an “independent, fundamental, KJV ONLY, Baptist church” aka… LEGALISM!!! I resonated with much of this conversation. I had to disentangle from much of what I had been exposed to also. (I LOVE that analogy by the way) Thank you so much for this interview, my heart was greatly blessed by this!

[@sheRoyals]

I love how she verbalized EXACTLY how I felt growing up about fear! This is something I STILL struggle with from growing up WOF. Gotta get her book!

[@loriannkruithof2043]

May I ask what WOF stand for?

[@elliesilva1907]

Word of faith

[@tracisspace]

I love that you two did this interview! I watched the Duggar’s growing up and was fascinated by their lives! I had my own experience with “detangling” in 2020. I found a great church and actually started reading the Bible in context and was baffled by the amount of versus I learned out of context. I related to Jinger’s book so much, I felt like she wrote all of my thoughts down.

[@LaurenSheehan]

I relate to this as well. I am doing a detangling right now. And everything Jinger wrote has been so affirming

[@user-co8id5px1r]

I realize it’s a light that is reflecting off of Jinger’s cross but look at the rays coming off of it. Looks as tho it’s alive. So cool! Very appropriate for this conversation.

[@AceGoodheart]

I went to a Bill Gothard seminar back in the mid 90's but to be honest I don't remember much of the teachings. At the time they seemed to be good lessons on how to become a better Christian, but it's been so long since I've read any of his stuff to make any comments. I will say that we as Christians should focus on our RELATIONSHIP with Christ. There are many things I do in my life that someone could easily say I'm being legalistic. For instance, the only music I listen to is worship music. I don't care much for contemporary Christian music (some I may listen to). I don't care for secular/worldly music. And the reason being is because my desire is for more of Christ in my life. My desire is to be with Him. I enjoy being in His presence. There's no greater friend than Jesus. There's no great love, joy, peace, etc than what we receive from Christ. He's the one I long for. He's the one I seek. And worship music helps draw me closer to Him. Same with television. There's a lot of TV I don't watch these days, not because I'm being legalistic, but because I don't want to feed my flesh with worldly filth. I want to guard my eyes against the lust of the flesh. I don't want my mind focused on carnal things. I want my mind thinking about my Savior. It's all about a relationship with Christ, not religion.

[@nanigail395]

Jinger, you are so anointed by God & filled with the Holy Spirit to express correctly the way to come out of a strongly incorrect interpretation of the truth of scripture! You are definitely a wonderful young lady chosen “for such a time as this”! I pray you continue to have the strength & courage to speak out, even though I know it must be discouraging at times. May Jesus be lifted up & glorified ❣️✝️

[@starrcrossreardon]

I have had several friends who were so badly wounded by this 'movement' that they are still walking thru a deconstruction process. Anything that resembles their church experiences triggers them. Even if they have started trauma work- it's hard to navigate when you have lived thru the misuse of scripture and faith. I think having a partner that wants to walk with you and pray with you is huge.

[@rrjohn5]

I devoured the book. Very well done. Religious people are the hardest to win for Christ. I hope revival breaks out in her family. ❤

[@MarciaDurkee-pk7sx]

AMEN!

[@pianogal853]

I appreciate both Melissa's and Alissa's podcasts/yt so much, and LOVE this interview with both of you. And Jinger's discernment is awesome!

[@hannahmcdowell7440]

I haven’t read Jinger’s book yet, but I’m excited to. I’ve listened to a few interviews about the book and it’s really brought to light some wrong beliefs I had. I grew up with iblp teachings, and I didn’t learn what it was to have a relationship with Jesus until I was in my teens. After getting married I really had to deal with some beliefs I had learned from ati and realize they were wrong. One thing that I’ve struggled most with is that even if I do everything “right” bad things can still happen. After losing my dad to cancer I really struggled trusting God because my dad was a good man and so many people prayed for him. I thought surely God would heal him, but he didn’t.

[@cynthiafisher9907]

I’m sorry you lost your dad when you thought he would be healed. That is a hard thing to go through. I have been saved a long time and have learned that God does heal, but He doesn’t always heal. It’s a really hard thing to hold those two realities in tension within our hearts and minds. I had kidney cancer over a year ago and I didn’t know which one of those roads I would be walking. So far, I had my kidney removed and the tumor and I am cancer free. However, it may return at any time. I have had to live in a place of surrender to either eventuality. Yes, I hope I can live for my grandchildren’s sakes. But, I mostly want to fiercely love the Lord whatever He has for me. I guess this is the hardest thing to come to, trust in the character of God and to surrender to Him no matter what. It is a process of walking one step at a time and intending to move forward in faith.

[@oosn0b0ardroo]

Thank you to all three of you for your ministry... What a blessing it is that the body of believers is full of wonderful women of God who so gracefully and compassionately bear the image of our Lord! Fantastic interview!

[@tamarahenggeler4491]

Thank you for this interview with Jinger! I tried to watch several interviews right after the book came out and all the interviewers did was pound her with questions about Josh’s transgressions, trial and incarceration. I wanted to hear about Jinger and now I finally got to hear her voice. Thank you!

[@lispottable]

Wow. I was blown away by this interview. In the 70s we were in a church that loved Bill Gothard. We went to several conferences of his. That church was super legalistic. I’m now realizing how that shaped my early Christian way of thinking about God. Thank you so much for sharing this!

[@stephenkammerling9479]

I remember, starting in the early 70's, Bill Gothard was untouchable in Evangelicalism. No one dared question him(group think?). As a young person I followed him, but I did question how he as a never married person or parent could set himself up as an authority on family relationships. .

[@raelenekelly8306]

I didn’t grow up in a religious home but I grew up in a superstitious one. I was taken to a few church things as a kid though and developed a really superstitious religious view. Like praying for everyone who was going to be murdered at night before bed or else they really will be murdered. I’d pray for hours and hours at night so afraid. I can relate to some of the fears shared. Even as an adult I have days where I’m afraid to leave the house out of fear of possibly dying. It’s hard to remove all those bad habitual thoughts. Such a good interview!

[@cynthiafisher9907]

Replace them instead of trying to get rid of them. Replace them by memorizing and bathing your mind and spirit with the Word of God.

[@veritatemdicam4585]

I attended a Basic Youth Conference back in the 70's. Hadn't really thought much about it since. I've never watched the Duggar shows so hadn't even realize Bill Gothard was still in ministry. This was very interesting and I love Jinger's heart in all this.

[@smiller6925]

I'm so glad your relationship with Jesus was not irreparably harmed. And I hope your extended family is healing as well.. Your mom and dad must be very proud of you and if they aren't they should be.. you are in no way dishonoring them.

[@Katia25]

I was legalistic until a few months ago. I am thankful I met other brothers and sisters and some people who told me about the truth and that God saved me from it. I am very young in the faith (3 years) and many fall info this. Like not wearing pants, make-up and jewerly for women, not watching any non-christians things or books,etc. I also remember the fear she was talking about and the feeling you need to do stuff for God but out of force instead of out of love. I still have some trouble remembering God loves me and He isn't mad at me if I do something wrong or struggle with some sins. To just trust in Him.

[@carynmason3421]

I appreciate all three of these beautiful women of the Word! I love the Jesus I see in each of them. Thank you ladies for using your gifts to bless the Body. To God be the glory!

[@jmckasyru]

Bill Gothard definitely teaches merit, performance, and a formulaic walk with Christ; he doesn't teach grace. I experienced two years of bitterness which began for me on the mission field, mostly due to legalistic presuppositions not unlike Gothard's teachings. When Father's grace and love broke through my hardened and embittered heart, my heart overflowed with praise, love, and gratitude for Christ. All of the legalism, performance, and merit became so anathema and nauseating to me that I threw away every book and teaching resource that smacked of them, including the Gothard red notebook and other materials. Anything that promotes a solution or method for the Christian life apart from dependence on Christ Jesus is anti-scriptural, regardless of who teaches or promotes it. God bless you, Jinger, for presenting the truth of grace! Amen, Sister! Running to Jesus is the only way!

[@thomascee]

Ohhhhhhh interesting!! I was in ATI kid back in the day 😂 We drifted away when his _blessings and prosperity_ type teachings progressed. Even then we knew that stuff was ridiculous. I still remember the conferences and as Jinger sad, I still have friends from those days. It was a perfect example of *_List-ianity_* . 10 ways to have a happy marriage. 7 steps to have good kids. 8 steps to have a pure mind, and on and on. This seemed to really resonate with a certain group-type/parent-type and he did indeed seem to become a god to way too many. ATI kids from my observation had a HUGE percentage of those who flew the coop as fast as they could when they hit 18. I think due to my parents, we only ever did ATI on the side. It was never central, and our church was always the highlight, not ATI. So it was just presented as _some potentially helpful principles_ and that was that. Thank goodness! I think the internet age also revealed many issues brewing beneath the surface, and wither you call him disgraced now, or we see the fruits of this type of teaching now playing out, it's pretty obvious that what may have started with good intentions, did indeed way over the top and unbalanced over time :( Glad you're still loving the Lord Jinger!

[@tashainjena]

List-iany... awesome way of describing it...

[@daniellecharland-gruhzit1177]

I wanted to ask, I'm not familiar with the abbreviations. What is ATI?? Thank you

[@thomascee]

@@tashainjena He he I've thought about it alot! It's so much easier to check boxes to _"be a good Christian!"_ But the true way, the _following God from the heart_ way, is so much better.

[@thomascee]

@@daniellecharland-gruhzit1177 The parent ministry was Institute in Basic Life Principles. IBLP. I really think he started with a good heart, I remember being helped by the principles, but he got caught up in all the lists and it just got over the top after awhile. ATI was the schooling division, the Advanced Training Institute. They would have huge yearly conferences, and as a kid, they were a blast! But the proof is in the pudding, and MANY MANY of those families were the "textbook" Christian family when their kids were little. But fast forward 18 years and a sadly large number of those kids were RUNNING away from it. Again, I think the parents substituted check-box List-ianity, with relationship Christianity. That's been my suspicion anyway.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

​@@thomascee yes better, but much more work to actually work thru every grey area with Jesus and respond in a Jesus way. So much easier to respond in a legalistic way. For those that don't want to do the hard work of walking thru life with Jesus in every hard area of life a list seems like a good way to be in the right!

[@Dulcimertunes]

Gothard always reminded me of Catholic priests-which would horrify him. A man with no wife or kids trying to teach on marriage and parenting 😮

[@janeschaech5222]

excellent point!

[@Megz207]

The three of you are so delightfully beautiful, not just because you are on the outside, but you can truly see the light of Christ from each of you coming from the inside. 💕

[@amberreid6242]

I just love her!! You can tell she really listens and takes it all in and responds from the heart.

[@mikeoxley4458]

I was saved by Faith in Jesus in 1977. I attended a Baptist Church that promoted Bill Gothard. So, I attended two of his IIBYC at a local arena. Then I attended Bible College for four years, and got a Ministries degree. I had to move suddenly three years ago. I found all the Gothard books, and threw them all away. I now couldn’t stand his severe legalism.

[@batescave]

Thank you! to all three of you for pointing us to TRUTH found in Scripture and God alone. An interview touching on deconstruction, honor, prosperity gospel, cult, compassion, idolatry, and seeking truth all in one!

[@MrCoords]

I'm so curios how the rest of the Duggar family has reacted to Jinger's book and if they still adhere to Bill Gothard's teachings?

[@bberry8699]

EXCELLENT INTERVIEW AND DISCUSSION!!! Thank you Jinger for being obedient to your calling to write your book. I am sure it was not easy in the least!!!! Many blessings family!

[@michellemcmillin590]

Pleasantly surprised by this interview. I am on such a similar journey when it comes to no longer following different teachers and searching the scriptures for myself.

[@ruthannfreeman8433]

Wow! she’s describing my life almost to a T lol! Thank God we don’t all deconstruct! I love the word “disentangle”. I’m still learning to let go of fear, as well as that feeling of, looking for “what am I supposed to do” or some kind of formula subconsciously. I definitely want to read her book. Thanks for sharing

[@JAlosinit]

Next, it would nice to see you tackle the damaging teachings of Dobson.

[@kerri7145]

Wow, I came out of a cultish church, but I actually loved that Melissa said “ spiritual gaslighting”that was aha moment for me! and then detangle the twisted theology to the truth of reading in context of the Bible.

[@sealskin5221]

On my early Christian years I used to go to the Bill Gothard Lfe institute's conferences all the time I even purchased the books. After a while my husband and I stopped going and I'm glad we did cuz there were some people that were like treating it like a religion.

[@jessicathespy]

I love this I was brought up in a church that was not a great place to know God and when they excommunicated for answering a question wrong in an interview to be a summer camp counselor I went through years of trying to understand and if I had had dis entanglement would have saved me 15 years of coming back to the church while always loving Jesus. I went back to the church a few weeks ago as my mother still go there and it was on abundance and prosperity which was all the illumination I needed.

[@sherriholcombe5428]

Our works are an outward expression of our faith in God and Jesus's finished work on the cross. We aren't trying to earn or keep our salvation. Salvation is a gift from our heavenly Father because of His goodness,not our own. Bill Gothard has led and is still leading so many astray. I pray that God will expose his heresy and shine His light of truth into the IBLP lies and new age beliefs.. Love this interview and so glad for Jinger coming out of the darkness she was raised in...😊💖

[@joannetompkins7833]

Just watched Alisa's podcast but wanted to come by and give you some love too. Great interview. I've watched Ginger on 3 different podcasts now and I love her heart for Jesus.

[@farmerjones9612]

I had never heard of this Gothard fellow..I used to watch their show and figured it was personal convictions that they dressed and lived like they did ,, so I never thought much about it.. Any parent no matter how perfectly they raise their children can have kids who choose sinful ways. Glad Jinger found the true way, .I am sure her parents were doing their best, hope they see better now.

[@fwdolphin]

I could write a book on Bill Gothard and his "Gothardites". I was right in the middle of being judged by the homeschooled "Gothardites" at a church in New Braunfels,TX many years ago. I hope that many of the children that are adults now have been disentangled from this. I found the parents to be legalistic and cruel to the point of my family being ostracized. There is more, however, no need to go into that. Years later after moving I called the pastor of this church to tell him through tears what we went through and he was not surprised and had heard this from others.

[@CT-316]

Me and my family were close friends with another family and we were both in that crowd (even met one of the Duggars, nice kid). And I was closed off from my best friend (at the time) because the mom thought we were too worldly. I was only 10, btw. Being cut off from you bff because I was "worldly" hurt me deeply.

[@susanbarnhart7310]

I can't wait to get her book. I think it was great that Jeremy asked her questions about what she believed and he even used the Bible.

[@elizabethnorman2597]

Thank you for this! This is so similar to my own story, though my parents walked away when I was just 13. I did have my own similar struggles to get to the point where I am with God. It is refreshing to hear someone who didn't lose their love for Jesus. When I share my story most people are shocked I still even attend church.

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

Disentangling and reshuffling versus deconstruction. Yes! 👍

[@britt_bh2021]

This was such a beautiful and rich discussion I wanted it to keep going love all three of them God bless you sisters in Christ our King and Lord 👑✝️

[@deserienelson1842]

Thank you ladies!!! And thanks for the new book, just got it on audible... I love that Jinger narrated her book! ❤

[@LilacDaisy2]

Up to 29:00 - WOW, no wonder Jinger feels free now! I used to have OCD, where I had to count a number of times before something would happen (like a tree branch swaying down to a certain level), and if I couldn't count in time, something bad was going to happen to me. Finally, I realised the game had no one of authority behind it and taught myself to ignore these thoughts. It IS freeing not to have these worries. It's so much like what Jinger talked about!

[@audreyanderson9952]

We so easily forget that when we become a Christian, over time we grow in our relationship with Jesus. How many people that enter our lives, that were an encouragement to us or taught us at that time spiritual truths, but then over time those people got messed up in there relationship with Jesus/ and changed their teachings. Our focus needs to always be on Gods Word, rightly dividing the word of truth. People change, are deceived, begin to compromise, etc. We all know examples of people in our lives that positively influenced us and then they changed. Again keep your eyes on Jesus!!!

[@juliarussellkautt4748]

Thank you, Jinger, for giving me a better word for what I’ve been doing the last few years!

[@JamesWilliams-he4lb]

God bless her. And God bless all three of the sisters on this video.

[@bethtaylor9773]

Am remembering back to the 80's when a friend I shared babysitting with told me that she was jealous of me. Here I was married to an alcoholic while she had done everything just right having gone to a lot of the Bill Gothard's conferences. I didn't obviously but accepted Christ when I was 25. I was floored that she would be jealous of me when I was jealous of her making all her kids' clothes, doing everything perfectly, etc. I asked her why?? She said that it was because it was so clear what Christ had done and was doing in my life.

[@angietorok8389]

That's a great way to put it Melissa..."Looking for answers and not exits". That's a very important distinction.

[@pkmcnett5649]

We, my husband and I, went to Bill Gothard seminars in Detroit as teenagers. We are now in our early-mid 60s. I think one of us still has a notebook. I cannot say any of the teachings stuck.

[@tashainjena]

I grew up watching the Duggars. The one thing that I always thought about their dress code was... I understood wanting to be modest. That is a good thing... but I always thought pants were way more modest for me because I was not good at keeping my dress down... lol. I was that kid that always wound up upside down... somehow.

[@Jolene03]

Haha 😂 yes, I can relate to that!

[@bunny_0288]

I actually asked my husband if he thought pants or skirts were more modest. He told me that he thought pants were because skirts have an "easy access" quality about them. So he always thought it was weird that there has been such a push with modesty and skirts. Plus when it's windy a skirt can fly up and you can unintentionally flash people. I enjoy wearing skirts because I think they're pretty, but I still always wear shorts under them just in case lol

[@tashainjena]

@@bunny_0288 I wore a wrap skirt to school one day... no shorts... super windy. Not a good idea.

[@bunny_0288]

@@tashainjena 😲😂 Whoops! Oh no!!!i had a wrap skirt in high school. I couldn't imagine wearing that without shorts! I was always paranoid it would accidentally come untied lol. My mom always made me wear shorts under skirts/dresses when I was little. I'm 35 now, and the habit has just stuck 😂. Plus if you choose spanx as the shorts you look better in the skirt/dress so it's a win/win lol

[@mechelledesigns]

I attended a Bill Gothard seminar when I was in college. The southern Baptist church I attended had a few van loads of people attending. My other church I attended had a small group go to his seminar in my early twenties in the nineties. I just had some questions and disagreement of some of his views. I didn’t realize that the Duggars followed Gothard when I followed their show as well.

[@lightworkproductions]

Praiseful that truth was revealed to her. One thing we have to keep in mind is balance, moving away from extremes. All too often many Christians focus on the legalism aspect, but neglect antinomianism. There's an emphasis on freedom in Christ, so much so that true change, growing and living in holiness, is neglected. Again, balance. We should be seeing 1 Peter 1:15-16 (a repeat of Leviticus 19:2) played out by the way we live, the choices we make, the things we participate in and celebrate and support, etc.. This is choosing to walk by the Spirit and not the flesh (Galatians 5). The only thing that maybe needs to be clarified here is the part of parenting and discipling our children. Children are not automatically adults at age 18. That's the world's view, not Scripture's. Staying at home with the parents under continued guidance is OK. Physically speaking, the decision-making part of the brain doesn't fully develop until around the mid-20s. And there isn't anything wrongful with courtship and teaching proper modesty and purity either. These things can become extreme, but, again, balance is key. 🤍

[@IrisSPerez]

15 minutes into the video and I ran to the store to buy it. Can’t wait to start reading it.

[@sac58999]

This is what I needed to hear. I will have to check out her book as her story sounds much like mine...but in my case it drove me away from the church for years & toward the "liberty" off New Thought/New Age. The best thing about Gothard's IBLP in the late 80's/early 90's when I went once was the chalk-talk at the end...if only as a relief from the mind-numbing hours of videos! Edit: I've just learned I can read her book on my phone with software from the local library. I know what I'll be reading on public transit next week! :)

[@LForbesDeWild]

Wow. Didn't know about Gothard but seemed like I grew up in an extremely legalistic house. It was all about the rules & religion. I lived the first 10 years of my life afraid that God would zap me if I did anything wrong (my dad said it would happen). Then I spent the next 10 years wondering why God wasn't zapping all the bad people out there. I figure I still have a long way to go with my own disentangling. How I long to know a personal relationship with Jesus, to experience that transformation in my heart. Seems like that has yet to happen because I still wish God would zap all the evil people already. All 3 of you are so beautiful, inside & out. I plan to buy her book. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@mamainchristjesusofthechri9886]

Remember, these women are also profiteering off Christianity just like Gothard.

[@masteringfibromyalgia]

he was prominent in the 80s, I remember going to a conference with my parents when I was in High School. good question re pants. I still feel shame if I show too much of my body. I also feel a lot of shame for not marrying a more Christian man, and not teaching our kids about Jesus as much as I should have, and I carry the burden of their lost state, as they all reject the gospel. And I also feel shame for the divorce I didn't want, and also for being remarried. And although I am remarried to a man who loves God and believes God, I still feel a sense of doom of living outside of God's will, that "umbrella of protection". I had forgotten about all that teaching that came from gothard, huhm. Thank you for this interview!!! I'm still trying to figure out the generational curse thing, I am torn between Jesus breaks the curse vs God is the same yesterday today and forever. I need to resolve this! And both my brother and I have a strong desire to help our dad come back to faith in Christ alone, he grew up Pentecostal and he feels guilt and shame for telling us about Jesus! If anyone reads this, please pray for him, his name is Paul, and he is in his 80s and declining in health. Please pray his heart is receptive to the truth of the gospel, and that he receives Christ as his Savior soon. Thank you!!!! And thank you Melissa for your ministry. You make the Word of God so clear, and I really appreciate that!

[@rebeccapiatt4482]

Thank you Jinger. My children have had to disentangle themselves too. My husband and I thought we found the solution to protect our family years ago...I am going to ask my 26 year old daughter to listen. I still have to disentangle myself occasionally. Bless you sweet lady

[@emiliakuilan8585]

Thank you for sharing this powerful testimony I was in the same situation but the narcissist was my husband My daughter and son are still there 😢for them I’m the enemy so please help me with your prayers so they can see the truth. God bless ❤

[@sharonnorthern1525]

I listened to some of the audiobook. I’m so proud of her for sharing her story.

[@kimmicoo8870]

This interview was amazing and I can not wait to get Jinger’s book!

[@fabianapimentel6114]

I don't understand how people can reconcile those teachings with the Bible. The only possible way I think is not reading and studying the word of God. Let's study the Bible people!

[@HomoEucharistica]

"O Heavenly King, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, Who art everywhere and fillest all things; Treasury of Blessings, and Giver of Life - come and abide in us, and cleanse us from every impurity, and save our souls, O Good One."

[@dyannedelancey9738]

So odd that Alisa didn't have this growing up. I didn't experience these teachings UNTIL I joined the Evangelical Church in the early 2000s. Her book completely resonated with me.

[@ms7953]

It strikes me that many (most?) of the context of faith presented by Gothard, or legalism, is very very similar to those individuals carrying the weight of OCD. Yes, there's a strong genetic component in OCD, but this journey reflects to me the "taught" or "caught" component of it. And that, has it's base in managing or amelioration of fear, which becomes a matter of " chasing the tail." These beliefs are absorbed as a protection from fears in life, but perpetuates it's own fears in the consequences of not being able to fulfill the requirements.

[@shesunfoolishone4052]

I know this is gonna be a good one❤

[@veritaslux644]

You don't "get harmed in Christianity", you get harmed by people who say they are Christian but are not. They are wolves who are trying to deceive you to harm you, or they are trying to deceive others about you, to lead them to harm you.

[@katevoris8811]

So glad to hear her heart and depth of commitment to Christ and the word.

[@AbbaJoy1]

"Modern-day prophet sent from God"-- He didn't actually come out and say it, but he did refer to the promise in the last two verses in Malachi: "... he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to the fathers ...." The usual understanding of this is that the passage refers to John the Baptist and/or the two tribulation prophets. But many of us thought Bill Gothard was "sort of" a fulfillment. Also, he taught that we should meditate on scripture as we fall asleep (Psalm 1) which is good, but we inferred that he got his wisdom, insights, extraBiblical details of application while meditating on scripture. This sounds ridiculous when actually articulated, but it was inferred and unspoken. Great interview!

[@majorphenom1]

Thanks for sharing 🙏🏾 His grace and mercy be upon you all and your loved ones 🕊️🥛🍯

[@openlybookish]

I'm reading it soon. I can't wait.

[@lindahubbs8146]

Does she go in more detail about specifics in her book?

[@barbaradouglas2283]

Way to go Jinger Voulo! Maybe I’ll be looking into your personal book myself. 🙏👍

[@aliciaglauser2184]

I wonder if Bill Gothard would blame Jinger’s parents for Josh Dugger’s criminal behavior towards his sisters??

[@NikkiSchumacherOfficial]

From some of the literature of his that I’ve seen he’s more likely to blame the victims than anyone else. 😮

[@susanbarnhart7310]

Bill Gothard blames the victims yet makes the perp go to "reformers counseling" ran by him. Shaved his head and had to show his true repentance to get back into the good graces of the church.

[@Bethany-wm8wc]

3 amazing ladies! What a blessing you all are.

[@noivee3732]

So happy to hear from Jinger. Please, invite her siblings too.

[@jdgill686]

Repentance is a changing of your mind from going in one direction to another...to fallow Jesus. Cleaning up our act to become saved, is a works salvation. We don't get cleaned up 'til after salvation and the HS guides us into Sanctification. We can't do it on our own.

[@woodb51]

Generational curses. Oh boy, I have had to fight against that for many years. No one can show you scripture to support it but that doesn't seem to stop them from supporting the concept.

[@anjabevis8130]

Thank you for this interview! Going to get the book!