Cultish - Jinger Duggar Vuolo: Disentangling From The Cult-Like Teachings of Bill Gothard

[@ApologiaStudios]

Hey! Do you like all things cults and Christianity? You have come to the right place! To get exclusive Cultish content, subscribe to Apologia All Access for that, and more! Click here for more info. www.apologiastudios.com/subscriptions

[@christinefernandez559]

I had a question. I don't think I deconstructed or picked out plato when I was miraculously born again when I was 29 years old. I simply through it all out and asked God to teach me. He's been renewing my mind ever since. I was raised Calvary Chapel Bible with my dad, and charismaniac Vinyard throughout the 80's and 90's with my mom. Plus I was a self righteous bibke college girl. I would have gone crazy trying to pick out plato. I had to throw it all out and led the Lord lead me. I'm still getting unbrainwashed to this day. Does it half to be plato picking?...I think that can make us want to make us hold onto a movement, making it not so bad and causing years of confusion and compromise, rather than throwing it out and depending and letting God have a fresh start of teaching us? What are your thoughts?

[@Rea7931]

Question How do you justify calling out Bill and his teaching but it’s bad to gossip and slander??? Thanks

[@zanleekain117]

​​@@Rea7931 Ephesians 5:11 Believers are called to expose evil, least we become inablers to abuse and sin. Gossip is talking about someone who is righteous in order to tear them down. Exposing sin is the opposite of gossiping. In fact blaming someone of "gossiping" is the quickest way for abusers and their inablers, to keep their victims quite. (Speaking from experience.) Also slander is just another way of lying about someone. Exposing evil isn't slander if it's true.

[@NewWorldDAO]

Shame on you

[@rteegar78]

My dad made us go to these year after year! One year I was sick with the flu and he forced me to go anyway and got very angry when I would go into a coughing fit. He loved the teachings bc it fit into his patriarchical and narcissistic ways. I'm thankful I've been delivered and made free indeed as well♥️

[@badmanners619]

I feel you girl. In the exact same boat. Finally escaped and never looking back.

[@Parks179-h]

I’m sorry to hear this! I can understand why this memory could be very hurtful. I also couldn’t help but to notice that you use the term “patriarchal” in a seemingly negative way. I’m curious to know a.) if you did intent it to be take that way and b.) if so, why? Blessings to you and yours!

[@rteegar78]

@@Parks179-h I don’t know how patriarchal can be positive in the way they use it.

[@rteegar78]

Why what? I’m not sure what you’re asking.

[@Parks179-h]

@@rteegar78 well, the Bible certainly does. If by the patriarchy you mean, “pater”-father and “archa”- rule (father-rule), then the Bible commands children to be submissive to their parents and wives to their husband. The father is seen as covenantally responsible for the security, care, and love of his family. Ephesians 5 for example, likens the fathers in the home to Christ’s leadership and compassion/loving self-sacrificial attitude and it likens the wife to the church. One who submits to Christs rule for good. This responsibility falls on no one’s head except the fathers. He has authority, yes. But he also has the responsibility for how he uses that authority and he can also go beyond this authority of course. This is certainly the scriptural model. The problem is not that fathers rule over their homes. The problem is that they do not rule in a Christ honoring way. I hope you can see where I come from. I will also add that the book of Genesis speaks of the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob); and it speaks of them in a very positive light. I would gently suggest that if you believe that patriarchy is always synonymous with narcissism and oppression, that moral judgement my push back against the scriptures in a light that is not good. I say this not as a judgement towards you but as an encouragement to think through the term a bit. The culture uses it very differently than the Bible. Again, I’m am so sorry that this story happen and was real. I deeply wish that your father would have been understanding of your sickness. However, I believe it could be just as traumatic for us to speak in such a way as to teach our kids to be skeptical of their fathers authority in the home.

[@Mlmoney02]

I love the way she ponders each question, marinating on it for a second in gratitude for her experience she is about to share. She wants to be as authentic as possible and that is so important.

[@natashamiller4860]

I really appreciate the way she exposes what is wrong with the way she was raised while being careful to not damage the relationships she has with loved ones in the midst of exposing while exposing those things.

[@Francine1117]

I see the blessings of God for allowing Jeremy to come into Jinger’s life at just the right time! He rescued her by showing her the truth of the false teachings of Bill Gothard. It’s a great blessing to see this young couple’s grow in grace and see the healing taking place! 💜

[@texuztweety]

Amen🙌🙌❤️❤️

[@deborahtanner354]

Jeremy’s church is very close the Duggars Baptist church.

[@tauruscommunist9532]

He has even more hateful views

[@gowest5145]

Jeremy is false too

[@gowest5145]

These people are ever learning and never able to come to the truth. That is why all of them are going in circles. They are all claiming family members are toxic, the truth is every single Duggar is toxic including Jinger, Jeremy, Jill, Derrick, Jim Bob, Josh, all of them. The girls like Jinger are doing the interviews and putting out books for money.

[@whatabreeze]

The way she looks at her husband while he talks is the absolute sweetest.

[@regeneratis]

I like your statement & my first thought was Because she can trust him & he loves Jesus.

[@emeraldsmith3782]

Right?! Beautiful!

[@JB-ku7kv]

Just looks like she’s looking at him. Maybe I’m missing it.

[@InfoLunix]

@@JB-ku7kv From 26:48 on...

[@jessicam515]

She’s just looking at him. I look at my husband like that when he talks but I’m thinking how annoying he sounds sometimes 😂

[@oracawa]

This interview was absolutely fantastic. I have known about the problems with Bill Gothard, for a number of years. Hearing Ginger give her story will help many who are deceived by people like this. Also, hearing her husband’s take on this and helping her work through the control she was under. Especially bringing out our relationship in Christ.

[@katiehuntley6382]

Praise God for His faithfulness! As a daughter of parents, saved out of the 70's, I can relate to much of this . I also have such grace to extend to parents who were not raised in Godly homes, trying to discern being discipled in all areas of life, including parenting.

[@saraz9017]

Yes

[@annex7236]

I have watched many of Jinger and Jeremy’s interviews on her book and this is no doubt the BEST one. It seemed honest, spontaneous (as in not rehearsed) and in depth.Thank you!

[@rebeccalowery7335]

This was so encouraging! I also grew up with horrible and hurtful doctrine and God made a way for me to get out. Love that you used Romans 8:28 to emphasize that God uses this for His glory. I wrestled for the longest time of why I had to endure it, but as Jinger as illustrated, people can hear testimony after testimony of how God can still be praised. What a wonderful thing that God uses to pull others out and into His marvelous light.

[@jaredhammonds8255]

That was a great conversation. I love how she speaks so clearly and yet so lovingly.

[@veritaslux644]

Oh right! Iam sure Gingers parents and Jeremy’s mother and father and law and all their sisters and brothers and in law siblings, etc etc etc all feel so loved! Slandering their family or anyone so unjustly, in a sweet clear voice, and while claiming to be a Pastor and a Pastors wife, is very wicked!

[@chelseawatson7747]

@@veritaslux644 Ginger didn't say anything wrong she just speaking the truth.

[@starlingswallow]

As my relationship with Jesus has deepened, sin has lessened in my life~ this is the fruit of the spirit! It took me 36 years to stop trying to STOP sinning within my _own_ power and rely on the Holy Spirit, I abided in Christ, to grow in me His fruit by HIS power.

[@ellkat3]

My family was in ATI until I was 10, and even though we didn’t go too deep I still (at 31) sometimes have to stop and consider whether some of my beliefs are from ATI or from the Bible. For those wondering what some of the teachings were, here are a few examples: If you didn’t follow the OT law (like couples abstaining from sex around the woman’s period), you were likely to experience sickness and financial ruin. Men weren’t supposed to grow out their beards or wear jeans. Women weren’t really supposed to wear denim either. (Khaki was the preferred fabric.) You couldn’t use burn barrels to dispose of trash. If women didn’t dress modestly enough, the men who saw them would experience uncontrollable lust and it was all the woman’s fault. Jacob’s daughter Dinah was used to scare girls into never working outside the home…unless it was at ATI ministry centers where they would have very little contact with their family for extended periods of time. Anything other than “courting” before marriage was sinful. You were supposed to “guard your heart” before marriage, meaning never really admit to desiring/loving your future spouse all the way up to the wedding ceremony. And good luck figuring out your wedding night! If you owned Cabbage Patch dolls, you were inviting damnation upon your household. Objects like gifts from a sinful ex could have a spiritual hold on you. People outside ATI might still be Christians, but they were definitely lesser Christians and you had to be careful around them. Your connection to ATI was more important than your connection to a local church. Really there was a lot of superstitious-like behavior, and a very weak understanding of God’s grace and love.

[@InfoLunix]

Wow 😳 Thanks for the details. I had no idea about this movement really, I'm not from the US.

[@Vern_Levine]

That's really strange about following the law when it says in the mosaic law men should have beards and wear head coverings. Funny how they picked and choose...

[@nursemarie4819]

And the ATI training centres and the home were where so many girls were treated like Dinah

[@Jolene03]

Cabbage patch dolls? 😂 Sorry, 😂 why cabbage patch dolls?

[@ellkat3]

@@Jolene03 I'm not sure what the reasoning was, it seems like it had to do with naming them?? It was pretty ridiculous! 😂

[@Mlmoney02]

Also, they are so respectful of each others thoughts and contribution to the conversation. So sweet.

[@amandasumosky2155]

Thank you SO much, Jinger and Jeremy!!!! This is so real to so many, and your willingness to share, and point it back to Jesus, is being used by God in the hearts of many. Seeing His faithfulness to use you both is absolutely emotional for us as your brothers and sisters in Christ. Praise God! ❤️

[@sarahkokura6349]

I loved listening to Jeremy and Jingers story. Jeremy was used as a Boaz type. To redeem her out of this movement. To help more. And to watch them this is a great way to see complimentarianism should work. To see how she has grown. Because he has challenged her and point her to Christ. To see her blossom in her fullness in her imago Dei. Thank you for this.

[@veritaslux644]

You are so wrong! Jeremy and Jinger are the opposite of Boaz and Ruth. Jinger is being like Ruth's sister and deserted her loving, mother-in-law and sister and godly home, where God wanted her to stay, in order to go to her non-believing father's ungodly home (for her selfish pursuit of marriage, children, $ over pursuing God)!. INSTEAD, Ruth had faith and love for God and chose to follow God only, even though the world would say that is foolish and she should abandon her mother -in-law and go to ungodly fathers home for most common womens idol before God (and that is marriage, children, $)! Ruth had faith and didn't follow the world but honored God in all things, and she was blessed with a wonderful marriage and children and a wonderful relationship with her mother-in-law, AND became the grandmother of God!!!. And Ruth's mother-in-law must have lived with Boaz and Ruth (as all elderly should live with and be taken care of and help take care of their own families) , because Naomi nursed her grandson, Ruths child! That is how we are all supposed to grow our families into God glorifying families (by honoring, following God first, above all people and things/$)! Jinger is far more like selfish Dina in the scriptures, and obviously Jeremy is just a hirling, a wolf, who is using Jinger for filthy lucre sake! This snake will dumb poor Jinger as soon as he is done using her! God willing her family will still be around to love and support and comfort her and her children. But I pray these two immature prideful "Christians" will repent of all the slander and evil division and destruction they are creating since Jinger joined Jeromys John MacArther cult. They threw their wonderful parents and parent-in-laws, under the bus, for $ and popularity! They are in severe bondage and "know not what they do", and don't realize what serious destruction is coming their way, if they refuse to repent of dishonoring God! These scriptures come to mind when I think of their relationship: 2 Timothy 3 KJV "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was."

[@sarahkokura6349]

Woah. Well that was a thought and a half. Sorry I disagree. And MacArthur is not a cult. Is is in orthodox historical Christianity. But I wish you well. 🤗

[@wr1380]

Thank you for having Jinger and Jeremy! Great interview!

[@NikkiSchumacherOfficial]

I read her book right away. So glad gothard os finally getting the attention he deserves so he can be marked and avoided. Great work vuolos!!

[@ThHolyTrinity]

She was spot on about listening to sermons which she believed to be true in the past but now wonders how one could believe such, it resonated with me cos I went through that same ordeal. Only God opens the eyes.

[@thatonechick6744]

YEEESSSSS! Bill Gothard had a grip on the homeschooling community in the 90s. I'm happy to see people are finding truth after his predatory false teachings.

[@Xaforn]

Yes that’s why a lot of people tended to make fun of homeschoolers back in the day.

[@kedb621]

Thank you for this. Also grew up in the ATI cult but thank God my dad never bought into everything and really kept the family balanced and encouraged us all to be in the word. My family was often accused in our church or being too loose and for a time I, like Jinger, got really serious and extreme in trying to follow all their rules but thankfully the Bible and G-d got ahold of me

[@annamo6927]

Curious why you spell "G-d"?

[@kedb621]

@@annamo6927 ah haha I moved to israel about ten years ago and that’s the traditional way of writing it to show respect and to show that you’re talking about the G-d of the Bible, but you can see even in my comment above I go back and forth. Sometimes auto correct puts the o in for me too.

[@annamo6927]

Are you a Christian? Or did you convert? Just curious, not accusing.

[@tammyl7301]

I would say the same thing, Karen. We grew up being in ATIA when I was a young person, but my dad and mom didn't entirely buy into everything, for which I'm very thankful. There were positive things about the movement, but it's never good to lift someone to the status of a prophet or lift up to the point of unquestioning obedience. I'm grateful that we're attending a church that's very centered upon the authority of God's Word!

[@blchamblisscscp8476]

I had a friend in college who's dad insisted no guy could date his daughter, not even first date, until he had been through the Bill Gothard courses. I had totally forgotten about it until I saw this video drop. We were both involved in a college Christian ministry of discipleship and outreach (girls with girls, guys with guys, of course).

[@rachaelmcclelland8682]

Disentangling such a perfect word for this👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻❤️

[@MattCoversTech]

So appreciate you bringing the Gothard garbage to light. I did my own research years ago into this man and his teachings and left feeling disgusted. To this day it makes my skin crawl. My parents at one time had taken an interest, but thankfully they did not really apply his false teachings to our family.

[@staceyladychristwarrior]

I am SUPER excited about this! Finally people are understanding what Bill Gothard's ATI program was doing to so many christian families right under their noses. People thought i was exaggerating. When you grow up, with ONLY Gothards teaching, and all friends or any contact with others were others in ATI, Bills words were revered as important as the Bible. I believe we joined in 89 or 90 and i was out in 2000. I went to the other side of the pendulum, but God called me back 4 years ago.

[@eugene3484]

I’m gonna go back and watch it again but I did listen to most of it and I didn’t hear a clear example of what was bill doing or teaching. Can you sum it up in a few sentences

[@veritaslux644]

@@eugene3484 The reason you don’t hear anything substantial to justify this slander, is because these two don’t really have anything or any justifiable reason to be so evil! They are young and ignorant and just trying to sell a book and gain fame for their selfish profit (and the host too), at the expense of Gingers awesome parents and family, the Duggars! Jeremy has definitely betrayed his own loving in-laws and has lead Ginger astray from loving and following the Lord! And Jeremy claims to be a Pastor and claims to know the scriptures🙄! What a hypocrite! If he did know even the basics, then why is Jeremy openly slandering such a godly family (his own wife’s family! His own mother and father in Law🥺, the grandparents of his children!). Jeremy and Ginger are supposed to follow Mathew 18:15-17 to win the parents (and Bill Gothard, etc..) or anyone they believe has committed a sin against God, over to the Lord, long before going public! Only after the supposed transgressors are confronted biblically, meaning only after each step is followed and then only after the entire church has tried to lovingly persuade any unrepentant sinners to the Lord, are they supposed to tell and warn the public about any unrepentant sinner(s)! Once they do that, then it won’t be slander (which is a serious sin against God)! Ginger and Jeremy need to repent of slander and dishonoring parents and elderly, ASAP, in order to be right with God, but it appears they are too prideful. This host needs to invite the Duggars on his show with Jeremy and Ginger all at same time, for a real God honoring interview! That would expose the real truth to everyone, in a godly way! There is no way Jeremy or his parents come as close to as good of parents as the Duggar parents, unless they repent! And Bill Gothard was just a Charasmatic homeschool teacher with a huge following, because so many parents believed that his teachings were closest to scriptures more than any other person in media! Bill was not a Pastor of a Church! And Ginger only saw Bill Gothard speak at homeschool conferences, it wasn’t like Bill Gothard preached at Ginger’s weekly Church or even lived near Bill Gothard’s home (which was several states away)! This was a very misleading and slanderous ungodly interview! Iam praying that host and Jeremy and Ginger repent🙏!

[@veritaslux644]

Bill Gothard’s teachings were of course, not 100% accurate (I have only found a few pastors who are more biblically accurate)! But can you list the scriptures that you believe Bill Gothard violated? Ginger and Jeremy and host were not clear on which exact scriptures were violated!

[@staceyladychristwarrior]

I have been trying to reply and it's not showing.

[@staceyladychristwarrior]

@@veritaslux644 Ellen F in the comments below did a good job of describing things.

[@kvisa82]

I wonder how her family is taking the book. I pray they can all break free from Gothard's teachings.

[@stevergee]

I was a fanatic of Bill Gothard for years off an on. That did result in legalistic tendencies for me and my faith kind of ended up ship wrecked. But after some correction from the Lord, I found a new love for the Lord and a new understanding of the word. So now am excited to see what is coming with the Lord's return.

[@anitaramsby4327]

After 50 years of Bible study,, can we also mention that those who believe in the absolute truth of biblically presented truth, would also be called cultish?

[@apostledavidetaylorcultwatch]

I am happy for Jinger to find freedom, a real faith with Jesus Christ without the fear.

[@ritastevenson5639]

I was a JW until 2 years ago (was in for over 30 years and am now mid-40s) and this really resonates with ME! Similar in many ways so far as the legalism and "having all the answers" but definitely not in theology. JWs deny Christ's deity and imply that his atonement is not sufficient to cover all sins. Thank you for your testimony! Very encouraging. ❤

[@Hannahnanners123]

I watched all of the documentaries and the reality show so this was a really interesting episode!

[@HeavnscapeRadio]

a very similar formula to the cult God helped me escape, the shincheonji. would love for this channel to discuss them as well, targeted to a lot of young christians on instagram, other social media, & even dating apps claiming to be a "free virutal bible study"

[@TruckDriver2005]

Thank you "Ellie" Melanie King and "Lily" Patricia Campbell for posting a link to this interview on your Duggar family fan blog page.

[@joshuaporter2875]

I knew I heard the name Bill Gothard before but I didn't remember any of the teaching but as I listened I realized how much he must have influenced my parents. I thank God he gave my brother and I a mother who really kept the idea that Christ was the only way and the scriptures the truth to base everything on but this stuff was so mixed in as I think about it I'm flabbergasted. By the grace of God at least part of my family in the last few years has been lead to much sounder theology. Thank you for this video it helps clarify so many things in my life.

[@abbym1976]

I’m so happy that she let herself out of the personal prison of religion. Religion is man’s way to please God, a relationship is what HE wants from us. He gave us a manual filled with wisdom and love and hope. I’m so glad he put Jeremy in her life and they are glowing with love for Jesus.

[@HeartlandFamilyDesigns]

You've almost completely described the Amish religion.

[@deinacayten6610]

This sounds a lot like the teachings in Apostolic UPC churches, that I’ve experienced

[@MicahCTheory]

I’m ex ATI too. I’ve always been disturbed by the hateful spirit some people have coming out of that, but she does not appear to have that. I think it’s helpful to remember when evaluating those who were in ATI that not all of Gothards teachings were unbiblical. In fact allot of it was basic Baptist doctrine. Gothard got out of line when he started adding man’s(his) stipulations and specifications to general biblical principles. Ie, dress modestly morphed into girls in pants are sinning.

[@potter8488]

If I didn't know better. I'd say these folks are former Seventh Day Adventists. As a former Adventist, this is familiar.

[@Dulcimertunes]

Another cult

[@mrs.garcia6978]

Or JWs

[@klarag7059]

I may have missed it, what do her parents think about her leaving and subsequent interviews and book?

[@shawnasings]

I wonder why people in the IBLP don’t see the correlation with the Mormon church? It’s so similar in that they are following a “prophet” that is making rules outside of scripture.

[@veritaslux644]

Bill Gothard or IBLP, didn't call Bill a "Pastor" or "prophet". And can you tell me what rules he was making outside of scripture? There was a few, but I (and others), aren't hearing anything to warrant all this attacking and slander. What Bill Gothard taught and homeschool materials that iBLP promoted and sold were the closest to the scriptures out of any homeschool material or teachings that I have ever seen anywhere! But no one should let any mans homeschool curriculum or teachings be followed over following the KJV scriptures. And I don't see what exact scriptures that Jinger or Jeremy are claiming that the Dugger parents of Bill Gothard violated. But I do know there are scriptures that young immature Jinger and Jeremy aren't following! I pray they repent of their evil slander and false accusations, ASAP, especially for thier own sake!

[@Dulcimertunes]

Or Muslim! Cover up! Rape is the woman’s fault !

[@mrs.garcia6978]

Or JWs or SDAs

[@rlolo777]

​@@veritaslux644 how about a man is not supposed to wear jeans? Extrabiblical means outside the Bible. This is what he did. He put rules in place that are just not found in Scripture. They are man's rules. Basically, in practice, the Holy Spirit isn't enough to keep people from sin. They don't teach that loving the Lord your God with ALL your heart, soul, mind, and strength is sufficient. (Read Matt. 22:36-40, especially v. 40) No, Jesus's words are incorrect. It's not enough. You must have all these other rules, "principles" to succeed spiritually. And they never tell you their success rate. They never tell you all the families it DIDN'T work on.

[@rlolo777]

What does IBLP stand for?

[@leahdefreece4363]

Did anyone else think of the House Plant Song by audio adrenaline when they heard the first part of the interview?

[@meigenbouman5211]

You have to do a episode now on Michael and Debi Pearl! His KZbin presence is easy to find and full of heresy. Their books are prevalent. Bill Gothard and Pearls are both teaching the parenting prosperity gospel; horrible theology.

[@jodyeggleston6045]

Lol - now I’m understanding Audio Adrenaline’s “The Houseplant Song” a little better - “Doesn’t really matter if it’s ‘Christian’ or not, if it’s syncopated rhythm, then your soul is gonna rot”… 😂

[@livefromtexas9371]

I remember those seminars. I became legalistic and unhappy. It took years for me to be set free.

[@c19rebelmax52]

Who fooled you to believe that keeping the Sabbath is being Legalistic .

[@elliesilva1907]

Uh oh we have found the Torah keeper lol

[@livefromtexas9371]

@@c19rebelmax52 you have no idea what you’re talking about. I never said anything about the Sabbath. We’re not even talking about the Jewish laws.

[@3hillsfarrell945]

I like the title of this episode. "Cult Like". Truth can be twisted by our own flawed thinking.

[@connihudson1578]

This has been SUCH AN INSSIGHTFUL, BIBLICAL conversation with all of you! Thank you all and bless you for sharing!😇🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@Christinamomof8]

When you said Simpsonville I almost fainted. The abusive reformed group we were apart of was found in Simpsonville.... But a different state. I spent years disentangling my fate from all I suffered in that group. I'm consistently praying for you all and thanking God for people like Jinger who have exposed legalism and brought the focus back to the gospel.

[@sherrygarner]

How were they abusive? Really curious and wanting to know the truth.

[@sherrygarner]

In the past we attended a reformed family integrated church. Calvinism really bothers me. Then, we went to a non reformed family integrated church where they are currently doing the Basic Seminar by Bill Gothard.

[@Christinamomof8]

It was/is a reformed family integrated group. Very controlling & they have the mindset (or they did at the time we visited) that they are the TRUE church and really only fellowship with 1 other church in Alabama. The lead guy truly thinks he is the spiritual leader for everyone in the group and all the memvers should look to him for all decisions & answers. No one can ask him questions and If you voice that there are concerning thungs happening, you are accused of slander and shunned, whether you are a member or not. No one will speak to you if you question their leader. It really wrecked me for years & I've been rebuilding my faith ever since. Almost 7 years later, I finally have some peace.

[@Christinamomof8]

I almost didn't reply, because your name is very similar to some people in that group. I refuse to call it a church 🤷‍♀️

[@sherrygarner]

@@Christinamomof8 Sounds exactly like the church we went to. You were frowned upon if you asked questions, too! We eventually left along with others!

[@allisonjohnson6399]

Once I read a book And this is what it said "If your music has a beat Then you're gonna wind up dead." It doesn't really matter If it's CHRISTIAN or not If it's syncopated rhythm Then your soul is gonna rot! And this book was called "HA, You're Gonna BURN!" And in the second chapter I went on to learn... Take two houseplants And put 'em to the test Set 'em both in front of speakers To let the music do the rest First one you play Mozart Or something lovely like that Second one you play that Petra or that Megadeth! Doesn't matter what kind of rock it is! (Anyone else remember this Audio Adrenaline song? I never realized this what is it was referring to!)

[@heshercats4737]

I’m not alone, this is exactly what was running through my head 😭😭😭

[@bonniestorer3305]

I thought Jinger’s husband’s full name was familiar. I believe he helps produce the MacArthur Center Podcast which is excellent!

[@christilewis1510]

This has been such a great conversation. When she talks about thinking she had all the answers at 14, as a mom who has been through 2 rounds of teen years, that's normal. LoL Just saying, allow yourself some grace there as you continue to heal.

[@projectionv.accountability1010]

The way she looks at her husband is the way we should all look at our spouses. ❤

[@Weissguys6]

I think this should have been prefaced with an overview of who Bill Gothard was and what his teachings were. Very confusing otherwise.

[@veritas2145]

Google it

[@ebkemi8619]

Would be nice if this conference had deliverance people coming out of the occult need deliverance more than game night.

[@fsommers94]

Great interview. I am quite familiar with his teaching. Early on in my youth I attended a weekend seminar. I remember thinking that something was a bit off but the biggest reason I did not swallow it hook line and sinker, is that he had all the answers for marriage and children and yet had not walked it out in his own life. Now we are finding out about the sexual inappropriate actions of Gotherd himself, which makes me wonder if he is even saved???? One of our children and their family has gotten tangled up with this thinking and belief and it has wrought a lot of hurt and destruction in our extended family. One of the grand daughters has left (her Gotherd inspired family) and has experienced almost everything they describe. But I will vouch for the idea that many families that get involved with this philosophy, you will find a controlling, almost abusive, narcissist at the head of the household. And perhaps the wife is also, quite fearful in her own Christian walk.

[@MeganHurst]

This was my favorite interview so far.

[@emilysstoddard]

Wow. We literally just left a church that is caught up in this kind of fundamental and cultural legalism, and didn't even realize it until AFTER moving out of the area and started attending a church whose elders emphasize the freedom we have in Christ (without falling under the category of antinomianism.) What's interesting is that BOTH churches hold to the 1689. And at our previous church, there are some members who refuse to watch anything that comes out of Apologia Studios because some of your guys' content contains profanities that aren't filtered out, during street evangelism and abortion protesting, lest they sin from hearing a curse word.

[@mktay2067]

From those I talked to it isn't from hearing a curse word it is opposition to believers using those words when scripture tell us us not to clearly.

[@emilysstoddard]

@@mktay2067 sure. I would agree that the Christian should not use such language. I am referring to individuals who believe that hearing curse words is a sin.

[@InfoLunix]

I can see the system of rules was harsher for women.

[@allisonjohnson6399]

Thankfully I didn't have legalistic upbringing, but I know several people that have, or still are. And it is sad. A couple have decided to embrace the "deconstruction"...I wish they could hear this point of view and come back to God's TRUE love and acceptance.

[@j4d7s8]

She’s so in love with him, you can see it in her eyes. And visa Versa❤

[@TheEyeSeesAll]

I was in this bs. It has crippled me and my siblings in adulthood. We’ve all had the weirdest transition into adulthood, and still going to therapy. Jesus…

[@ruthrose2555]

Same a Ellen G. White teachings. Man-made rules. But, never lose the desire to do what the Word tells you by staying in it with prayer. We should always desire to please Him.

[@gracielarocha736]

Thank you, thank you, thank you very much. I also was part of a church where the pastor thought he was in anointed of the Lord, and his word and teachings were from God, and whoever questioned was in rebellion against God and his servant, and was subject to God‘s wrath. I spent 20 years in the church and it hurts me because I took people to that church that are still there. It’s been three years since my husband made the decision to flee to spiritual safety and we now serve in church where the pastor teaches through the word of God and shepherds his flock with gentleness and love.

[@scubaoctopus]

That was an awesome interview!!!!

[@SaraSmilesandCreates]

I wonder if her parents see that their family has been a success. I really do wonder if they have opened their eyes considering some pretty big things happening with their oldest.

[@SaraSmilesandCreates]

Of course she commented on this immediately after I asked

[@aliciarbusch]

I was hoping you would interview this couple.

[@chelseawatson7747]

I see Ginger has this beautiful glow on her face. I didn't see Ginger with that glow while she was on Kids and counting show.

[@lakeisharhyant2045]

She has changed I had to look at pics to remember which one she was. I noticed the one I also said she had a more Gothic look because her features were darker. She looks more vibrant. God put people in your life for a reason and Jeremy was the one God put in Jingers life.

[@jakerinehold9697]

I recall when I first heard of Gothard it was 1969 when I was in my mid twenties. Evangelical pastors heavily promoted this PBPGINFWMY stuff. I blame it on them. It took a dozen years before there was sufficient pushback.

[@lindasoderberg9477]

I had the pin!

[@katiestewart4020]

Great interview!

[@Brehmster1977]

I grew up in People of Destiny International (PDI) later Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM) and this all sounds very familiar, looking back I think the leaders of SGM were heavily influenced by Gothard’s teachings.

[@Elizabeth-gh2ih]

Will the conference be recorded? I’d love to listen to it as someone who comes from a spiritual abusive background.

[@dearally4787]

Only thing is I feel Jinger and Jeremy are just obsessed with John MacArthur now. Her TV interviews seem to always have a part of them promoting him or grace community church. Not heard either one of them condemn his and the churches’ handling of women who were told if they didn’t go back to their abusive husbands they were being disobedient to God. Just feel like they have switched to a different object, but still have blind allegiance to a man and institution. kzbin.infoIxJcQI0rHY0?feature=share

[@Vern_Levine]

Yep...being a MacArthur groupie isn't a big positive either...

[@rlolo777]

​@@Vern_Levine yeah, not a fan of MacArthur.

[@martha6542]

Thank you 🙏🏻

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Haha @16:42 ...I secretly listened to Van Halen on my Walkman ("Dreams" from the album 5150) because my parents disapproved of "secular" music. I went to a couple of Bill Gothard seminars, but largely ignored the teachings. I was more interested in the cute girl sitting near me every day of the seminar. I didn't rebel against God. I just rebelled against Bill Gothard.

[@RanHam]

The Duggars problem was their foundation wasn't Christ. It was based on trusting in their ability to repent of their sins.

[@jvon0311]

Yes we are having a conference to help you! Just bring your wallet. You see the price on these conference tickets? Talking about making merchandise of you but yes please continue to help us!

[@jvon0311]

“We come to Jesus by just praying a prayer” umm ok I think Jesus and the Bible said it better: The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

[@jvon0311]

36:17 he admits it lol

[@jvon0311]

40:24 Cultish Host - discussing the negatives of Humanism replies, “which is not a bad thing” You guys are creating your own cult following, lol

[@jvon0311]

I’ll say it again, anyone who says they have new revelation from God is coo-coo for coco-puffs.

[@jvon0311]

44:45 minutes and we haven’t cracked open the Bible once. From what I know about cults, old and new, they never go to the Word of God. So we deconstructing a cult or making a new one based off the “Jerry Springer/ Dr Phil” model

[@TaraEveland]

Oh is this literally on live right now?

[@mrrs8118]

Very helpful conversation. Thank you!

[@brittneykrystal5722]

I have to say something here. I grew up going to the Gothard seminars, and to this day credit the biblical truths I learned there to furthering my walk with God. The adults were never harsh with us kids, so loving and kind. We were always encouraged to look to scripture alone. Now that I am grown, I can see things, and where they could go wrong. For instance, Gothard was a very unique, very ministry focused single man. That was his calling. Some families tried to imitate Gothard to the point that they became legalistic. My family was not like that, and would disagree in small things. (we were never forced to wear dresses all the time, and I heard that Bill Gothard's sister who worked for the ministry did not either) I made a promise to God at 15 to read my Bible daily (with many outs depending on circumstances) I am now 36 and have kept that commitment (except for the time I was hospitalized) I cannot fathom anyone trying to compare him to a false prophet! Blows my mind. Was there some legalism? Yes, but I think many MANY Christian denominations have certain elements of legalism if we were to look under a microscope. As far as people accusing him of inappropriate things.... They are accusations with no proof. I think this may have more to do with the individual families more than anything. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I am very grateful for Gothard teaching the word, and the care and love I received growing up in the children's Institute. I want to be clear, I am not discounting her experience, I just cannot relate to it. We were raised in different families, so that could be the reason why. I just don't think this is a fair depiction. She is very vague, and keeps talking about "fear" and "scripture being sufficient" both things Gothard taught. He never called himself a "prophet" and never said "If you ignore MY teachings it will go horrible" he taught if you ignore BIBLICAL teaching it will go horrible. I am trying to not be frustrated by this interview, because I cannot speak for her feelings. But I hate seeing Gothard being misquoted to put him in a "false prophet" box. It just does not seem right, and I wish there was someone else there to give a little more perspective. For example, he is being criticized for going out into nature once a year to fast and pray and delve into scripture as if it were bad or creepy. He was a very busy man, and set aside this time to slow down and focus. So yes, I'm sure he did get inspiration from this, as we all would. (I spoke with him personally about this, and went to seek his counsel on a matter.) He never claimed anyone should worship him, or that he was above the word. It makes me sad to think his name is being dragged thru the mud in his old age, and he has no way to speak and defend himself

[@brittneykrystal5722]

@@chronischgeheilt Thank you! I would be interested in watching that. Like I said, I do believe there was some legalism. I am not denying that. But he is a man who is probably pushing 90? So yes, he was old school as many are. I just would not call him a false prophet. Thank you for the link

[@brittneykrystal5722]

Hey, I am checking out the video showing clips of Gothard, and I am not seeing anything other than basic Christianity. He taught the umbrella of authority. I agree with that. Rebellion DOES open you up to evil. (I am surprised anyone would take issue with this, as it is clearly taught in scripture) The "principles" Gothard says are so important in the video (The video shows him talking about principles in general, without showing what the principles actually are) are BIBLICAL principles, not his personal ideas. He had a street ministry to the gangs as a young man. He preached the gospel, and showed the breakdown of people leading to suicide, anger, bitterness.... It was a common sense approach to overcome a sinful life by following the bible. It really helped me growing up, and helped me get my head screwed on straight! I grew up in church, but nobody broke it down step by step for me like he did.

[@brittneykrystal5722]

In a nutshell, the take away I had growing up in the Gothard seminars was this: 1. This is what lead you to making bad decisions in life. 2. Here is what the bible teaches about it. 3. Here is what the bible says you need to do. 4. And here's why you should be excited about Reading, memorizing, and pursuing God's word. That's it. Where I disagree was this: because Gothard was called to be single, he tended to push that too hard. I don't believe in making vows to dedicate a certain amount of years to singleness. (But to be fair, many pastors are pushing marriage as being superior to singleness which is biblical wrong. Both are ok, and it is ok to be single, and "better" if we want to quote Paul) They were very against music with any kind of a beat. (Obviously this is not a biblical issue) The idea of modesty being skirts (Modesty is something many argue about in the church today. The bible gives no specifics, but I've noticed extremes on both sides, as many people dress pretty revealing and hide behind the fact modesty is not specifically laid out on the bible) My other issue is that Gothard associated with some teachers I disagreed with and did not care for due to legalism. (But he also associated with teachers I love like Ray Comfort)

[@davidwesterhoff4406]

34 women accused him of sexual harassment and molestation some minors, you think he’s innocent and they are all lying?

[@greggpurviance7252]

@@brittneykrystal5722 except for the reality that much of what Bill taught was not scripture, but his own out of context & I must say false interpretation. I was really into Bills teaching in the early 70s went to many basic conferences and the Advanced on Chicago. After the advanced, I, along with my church, saw the teaching did not line up with scripture. As the years went along he seemed to get further away from scripture to the point of false teaching, a view that is widely held in the church today.

[@jukes243]

ALL 14 yr. old's think they have the answers! lol Thanks, Jinger & Jeremy. Thanks A.S.

[@DanielGrovePhoto]

What a great interview! I had no idea the Duggars were involved in that teaching, wow! Also small world - I'm in San Antonio! wow

[@Weissguys6]

I’m still waiting for the “cult-like” part of the teachings.

[@Weissguys6]

I am not a follower of Bill Gothard by the way. Just curious

[@hereskrista1161]

Well he was spot on with the music. Just saying....

[@rachaelmcclelland8682]

I believe the Cult-like part is along the lines of authority… meaning the scripture as the authority… Ginger used the phrase, “scripture is enough”… versus a man (Gothard) being the authority & basically setting up rules/guidelines that this man believes God requires in order to be pleased. And the rules go beyond what the Bible mentions, thus making the whole movement moralistic vs Gospel centered. Note that this is being called “Cult-like” vs a full-blown cult. And cult-like can really cause harm & damage when perspective is being more or less dictated rather than the Holy Spirit & God’s Word doing the growing & shaping & guiding. But this certainly doesn’t mean that the followers of Bill Gothard don’t sincerely love & know Jesus… case in point, Ginger & from my perspective of watching the show through the years with my young daughter, most on the show looked like they surely knew & loved Christ. It’s just that there were done bondages being imparted on them that were man-made rather than necessarily being God-made. I believe Ginger & this interview will help others be able to parse out what the Lord desires vs what man requires.

[@jvon0311]

Karen Weiss - anyone that talks about receiving new revelations is coo-coo for coco puffs. But what is interesting is 1st-world Christians debate around how much or less of the world is ok, good, best, or bad. It’s quite sad. We have third/second-world believers just excited to have or know Jesus and a little bit of the Bible. Many have faced brutal persecution just for being a born-again Christian and living out the truth in there areas. Talk about passion for the lost, it’s amazing to see. But yes, fellow 1st world Christians please continue to debate your topics that concern your ability to waste time and accomplish nothing for eternity!

[@hereskrista1161]

@C P no not at all.

[@gracemukemba6330]

GOD saved jinger throu Jeremy GOD IS SO WONDERFUL GOD Loves evrybady Just come GOD as you are cose your Just perfect in the eyes of are Father JESUS CHRIST.

[@AdamsTaiwan]

Favorite line in this video: he's not a Bible teacher.

[@NoNameNumberTwo]

People just want an easy fix, that’s why movements like Bill Gothard’s become popular.

[@shelleyboggs2527]

Very déjà vu…. For the cult I was in. Except my family got kicked out because my dad knew the Bible better. But it came down to us getting kicked out because we said we would still talk to our neighbor who got kicked out, who was our family. Lol

[@adaynasmile]

He mentioned Allie! Yay @Relatable!

[@Itsmeroxiie]

Where can I get a cap like that????!! 😍

[@israelizzyyarrashamiaak766]

Some of the things said sure brought up memories I thought were long gone. I was so afraid of God I couldn’t possibly read more on my own. I was terrified of being burned alive in fire or struck dead from lightening. When I was 11 I had a dream the Russians were marching through our little town and it was a very apocalyptic in what was being done to Christians and so vivid. IBLP scared me out of church and as far away from God as I could get. I didn’t want to know any other ways I was a failure. Not good enough etc. These legalistic cults damage young minds more than some secular world can. They put kids in positions to be prey. It’s honestly a DCS issue and the kids should always be taken and treated for cult trauma… FYI I’m now 48 years old. And Russia is at war. It was the Soviet Union wayyyyy back in the early 80s. We had drills at school all the time and were basically terrified of a communist takeover. So we lived in fear at school and any planes over heard were scary and then they made God worse than any communist lunatic because God could see you in the shower. I bathed in a swimming suit. Seriously this stuff is so horrible to the children. Fear is compulsion and compelled religion isn’t faith. It’s fear and faith and fear are not the same thing . Best wishes to Ginger as she disentangles her mind and spiritual life. For those who say she shouldn’t speak out- bupkis. She has a responsibility to bring people to God, not Gothard.

[@danerachaelgustafson5941]

Jerry and Andrew, Please just ask a question, then let it be answered. Vice asking a question and then attempting to answer it prior to the interviewed person answering.

[@ryanehlis426]

Eddie Van Halen was an amazing guitar 🎸 artist. 😊

[@AdrienneJung.M]

The Justin Timberlake of homeschooling!! Hahaha that’s perfect!

[@Weissguys6]

Did Bill Gothard claim to be a prophet of God? We need more background on this man. Very confusing. What is ATI??

[@apples_and_orchards3205]

No he never claimed that. What is happening is the great falling away and rebellion towards God’s true word. I don’t agree 100% with everything BG taught, however much of it was and is Bible based and also common sense. The road is narrow.

[@veritas2145]

Google is your friend

[@scotthix2926]

The best analogy is he became a Pharisee. What is a Pharisee? a person who holds the truths of God but falls in love with a procedure or process above the truths of God. The process or procedures can be good things and work for someone (even him) but he applies or leads people to that procedure instead of God.

[@shannonwestbrook8841]

Growing up with Gothard teachings, all I can say is that it was a works based prosperity gospel. It pointed people to what they needed to do to have life work out, which left people disillusioned when hard things happened anyway, and worst of all in pointing people to themselves and what they needed to do, it did not point first and foremost to the finished work of Christ, diminishing the glory of the cross.

[@shannonwestbrook8841]

He absolutely claimed to receive extra-biblical revelations that he called "rhemas" which he held people to as if it were biblical.

[@ryant1506]

Ironically, her life was televised from age 10 but she was not allowed to have television by Gothard - i know cause my family had to ditch our television too

[@lindaolsen7089]

Cell phones & internet ok, though. Got it.

[@greggpurviance7252]

Went to basic & advamced in the 70`s. After the advanced, our church saw the cult like attitude, legalism & false teaching. He got worse over the years & his sexual abuse finally put a lens of transparency on the whole sorry mess

[@craigchambers4183]

I would need more information that I could check on myself to put Bill Gothard into the cult column, or even the cultish column. I do hear the attempt to not put all who responded to his seminar teaching as de facto cultic themselves. I went to four seminars because after the first it was free, if memory serves, in the early seventies. I was the only believer in my family, having come to Christ about 2 years earlier in 1970. I did not hear any legalism, and quite possibly because I was not suspecting it, although some years later I thought there was some fringe legalistic tendencies. That he claimed to be receiving revelation apart from the Scripture is news to me, and if true that would make the fruit corrupted. Anyway, these seminars 'felt' very helpful to me at the time because I loved the Lord and believe all that He says in the God-breathed Word. I would like to see some exegesis of texts that folks think he got wrong, but frankly am not inclined to spend more time in the matter. Thank you, through, for at least making me aware of what the issues might be.

[@rebeccavega6851]

Recovering Grace has tons of testimonies of people harmed by Bill Gothard . Check it out.

[@craigchambers4183]

@@rebeccavega6851 Thank you. I'm sure there are testimonies, but I would be looking for facts via exegesis of Scripture against what he taught, otherwise people feeling hurt do say much, but not always is that dependable.

[@rebeccavega6851]

Midwest Christian Outreach has been doing research on Bill Gothard for at least 25 years.

[@Dulcimertunes]

Does Gothard know that drums have been around for thousands of years? For example, drummer boys leading troops in the Revolutionary War?🫢

[@mrs.garcia6978]

Or the Israelites and King David

[@rlolo777]

That's pretty insane if the teachings go as far as affecting one's worldview.

[@JRAMSEY000]

I’ve always wondered how a husband in this affords to house and clothe a family this large of the females can’t,work at all? Anyone know?

[@lakeisharhyant2045]

Thrift shopping passing clothes down from cold to cj9ld. I remeber oneof thr girls liked to sew. I'm just thinking from what I saw from the show. Plus, they had their shows and I think the fathethad properties. They didn't belive in tv but they accepted being on TV. Maybe because they could take a wholesome approach.

[@JRAMSEY000]

@@lakeisharhyant2045 Thank you.

[@Dulcimertunes]

Income from TV which they didn’t even own!

[@JRAMSEY000]

@@Dulcimertunes yes in their case. I was asking more broadly about the typical Gothard cult family. I guess I should have been clearer. Ty

[@mrs.garcia6978]

@@JRAMSEY000my husband supports 6 females on a blue collar salary and a farm. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@CJ-oc2ff]

How do we know that Jesus wasn’t the “Bill Gothard” of his day? Going around teaching people new stuff that wasn’t contained in the old “scripture” and gathering a following? Maybe his teachings were more ethical but how could you not see the parallel between all modern day cult leaders and Jesus? The only difference is the story of Jesus is obscured by 2000 of history whereas these modern day cults we have a lot more information on.