Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh vs VW ID3 1st battery degradation test

[@easy08154711]

I bought my first EV because of your reports, it's a classic ionic, and I am still happy with it, thank you Teslabjörn. Until today I can't understand why Hyundai never made a successor to this car. This was clearly a people's car, that kind of car we need. The only things on my wishlist was a legal towing hook and a Battery around 50 kwh. Instead they made huge SUVs for an unaffordable price, what a disappointment. Good cars, but consumption almost doubled as well as the price. To this day I cannot see a replacement for this car in the market. So I will drive it on and hope that nothing expensive breaks. Hyundai Parts are ridiculously expensive.

[@KleszczuPK]

Not doubled, I bought the Kia Niro 2021. It's similar to Hyundai Kona and it uses 12kWh/100km at 90km/h. Very happy with consumption

[@VEs842]

The replacement is Tesla Model 3. I have both

[@wobie6291]

@@VEs842 Unfortunately not for tall people. Much more headroom in the Ioniq.

[@MrPaukann]

Stellantis cars. I think Bjorn even called them "the new ioniq" once, because they are cheap and charge fast.

[@Patrobasket]

I completely agree. But I have a Kona 64 (13 kWh/100 in 55 K km) and it's a decent and comparable car though being SUV-like. We should be careful with the motor/reduction gear bearings problem for both cars

[@automatix5]

I made this test a few months ago with my ID.3 from 3/2021 with ~175.000km. Got 47,5kWh out of it from 100-0%. I also made this test when the car was new, there i got 54kWh out of it. So 13% Degradation on my car. There is also a degradation test from the VW-workshop, there it also was 13% degradation and 47% DC charging. Now the car has 190.000km and still works fine.

[@marcohillenga5068]

I see this trend also in my car, same battery, around 50kwh usable @ 125.000 km. When I had the car at 50.000 km it had 52.5 kWh usable so degradation really slows down which is a good thing.

[@GlennonD]

175,000 on mine also. Don’t have the kit to test but range has not noticeably changed over 3 years.

[@pallibj]

I have a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh with over 155 000 km on the counter. And I have a 2022 Model 3 RWD with 58 700 km on the counter. The Ioniq is ALWAYS the consumption winner.

[@IanMcc1000]

It should be with half the battery size. It's a shame Hyundai haven't followed it up. The ionic 5 and 6 are different classes of vehicle.

[@derGerhart]

@@IanMcc1000 we can only imgagine what a anew ioniq with modern battery could be like. Its either way lighter or has a way bigger battery

[@marcuslejona]

Would be really interesting to see a degradation test on the some of the stellantis cars, there are very little data on these cars like citroen e-c4, peugeot e-208, e-2008, opel corsa-e, mokka-e, ds.

[@nakfan]

Yes, that would be nice 👍

[@muramarco01]

The pre restyling models have a very large buffer - 43kwh usable out of 50kwh net. I have a 2022 e208 that I intentionally charge to 80% and at 55000km I still have 98,5% soh reported by OBD and a 100 to 0 range of about 300km in summer (250-280 in winter)

[@marcuslejona]

There is one test on youtube on a e-208 using aviloo, but he was driving at 140-150km/h and i guess that would cause a lot of heat loss in battery and drivetrain.

[@bernhardyoutube]

Another pointless side by side comparison- I love it

[@pine111]

It would be nice if you would try to test a super high odometer MEB car to see how it performs

[@Thor6398-jt4mb]

I love these videos with older cars. For many of us, this is what's interesting, we'll maybe buy an older car or we plan to use it for a long time. Not all of us leases cars and change every second year. I prefer buying and keeping, which makes the economics a lot better.

[@ricokaden6562]

This is a nice test, classic Ionic vs. classic ID.3 ;) Regarding the possible degradation, my ID.3 with the 77kWp was never even close to 77 usable capacity when it was new ;)

[@ID.SuperFan-tq8xi]

Loving my 2021 ID.3 every day.

[@KevinT3141]

You had me at Classic Ioniq.

[@dennis3644]

Still loving my classic ioniq best regards from Germany

[@jacobsmedegaard5426]

I have a cupra born 58kwh 2 years old and i have driven 75000km in it, and i have testet it 2 times, one time in January this year where it had about 50kwh useable (about 10% degradation) and one time for about an week ago and it had 51,185kwh useable (about 7% degradation ), and it was after a trip to italy from Denmark and back again, so i did charge it to 100% before the drive down there and before the trip home, so i think when people don't charge their car to 100% at all, because people where told to keep it at maximum 80%, so they never calibrate the battery, and then it will degrade that way, it's just a thought, because we charge it to 100% maybe every month or so, because we have family a bit far away, but like i said, it's just a thought🙂

[@jacobsmedegaard5426]

Or maybe VW just don't hide the degradation, as some others maybe does, but I don't know😅

[@marcohillenga5068]

Some manufacturers actually do it indeed, the 64 kWh Kona also has quite large invisible buffers, classic Ioniq too. The Ioniq 5 shows real degradation again. The ID3 with smaller 52kwh also has a humongous buffer. 7 kWh of buffer.

[@lucienliebecke348]

I have a ID3 1st with almost the same degradation and 49,5 kwh left but with 86k on the odometer

[@alt572]

Ioniq seems to charge the cells to 4.12V while the ID3 is more like 4.15, so more buffer % wise in the Ioniq

[@themystguy]

Most probably ioniq had a top & bottom buffer leading to less visible degradation

[@evaddicted3224]

I drove 206 miles from 100% to 8% yesterday with my Enyaq 60, consumption was 4.3miles/KWh - 144wh per kilometer. I worked it out to 51.5 kWh capacity which is really low. The car is less than 2 years old and it has done 33000 miles. As much as I like the car, my next one won't be anything from MEB family.

[@capadosio]

Ioniq for the win. Probably the best used car for buying. The issue in MEB cars, maybe they chose the wrong battery provider, maybe the BMS is not managing the battery correctly, who knows...

[@nakfan]

Ny thought too… We know VW have had problems with series of batteries, also shown by Bjørn

[@phuxus]

Yeah yet another Kiabjørn episode! Classic Ioniq for the win! ABC - always be comparing.

[@MrBucko1990]

Would love to see the degradation on an Ioniq 5 now it’s out a few years. Great comparison to the classic Ioniq. Interesting to see if the got lucky or brought the learning into the eGMP platform.

[@MichaelPanzer]

Mine is the 73kwh version with 45k km and 2 years and I still get 69 to 70kwh out of it.

[@malakudi]

1.5% degradation is impossible, it is obvious that Ioniq has a hidden buffer that is used over time to overcome degradation. On the other hand, most ID3s have higher than expected degradation. Mine after 3 years and 60000 km is at around 50.5 KWh. I think original software on first ID3s was allowing more capacity to discharge, I think you should consider 55 KWh as 100%, like in your ID3 facelift test - it seems 3.x software has reduced the available capacity.

[@MimMusMet]

We want to see Kona 39kwh and 64kwh. Cheers.

[@dmitryvasilonok2030]

I am starting to think that at MEB cars - it's not a degradation, but intentionally made thing , maybe through the updates. My ID.4 77 kwh which I bought used with 47000 km have the same 11 % degradation, 69 kwh usable energy (according to a CarScanner) . I drove a 15000 km with it in 9 months, and do not see any sign that battery capacity becomes even smaller. I hope this will stay like that.

[@sworksm552]

Boah, that is a lot. My Model 3 with LG has only 2% after 48.000km. I hope for you, that the degradation is slower now.

[@edvardasremeika3331]

Try to discharge to 3-5% and charge to 100%. I had the same 69kwh usable. After deep discharge-charge CarScanner shows again ~73kwh. After 70km I'm pretty sure that vw uses big buffers and we shouldnt count from claimed 77kwh as we never get 77kwh usable as it is claimed by vw

[@RafaBezowski]

@@edvardasremeika3331 The same story for me I had 69kwh after winter, I charged it to 100% from low state and now its back to 72,5kwh in CarScanner and in real life testing after 35k. I 'm not 100% sure but I don't thing I have ever seen more then 75kwh on it when it was new.

[@LiiMuRi]

My ID.3 also shows the same 53 kWh in CarScanner as in the video. I really think it's a buffer of some kind, it wouldn't make sense that all the cars have exactly the same degradation.

[@Zedus-rl9hp]

@@edvardasremeika3331 its balancing the cell voltage. VW's official values ​​are 82 gross, 77 net. If they have increased the buffer even further, they would have to declare this and also correct the WLTP range, otherwise they would be committing a criminal offense. Or it was not intended and they messed up the software (again).

[@mausmaus5212]

A lot of guesswork here. The data of my Id.3: 3.5 years old, ownership since new, supposingly the 58 kw/h Modell?, nearly 120k km, ca. 55 kw/h battery capacity now, no wallbox at home, ca. 80 to 90% DC fast charging. Cheers

[@1705KAOS]

I think I have the same capacity available left with 90K km on my ID3. And I it`s stable from last year.

[@mickaelgrosso8467]

I have also the same degradation with 120k on my 3 years old ID3

[@ME-cb1vw]

24,23 kWh available at 148000km classic Ioniq

[@williwerbung5203]

There are some flaws. All my testing suggests that VW software is actually underreporting consumption by 6 % (I did tests using the energy that gets used, the energy that is recuperated and distance driven compared to onboard results). So if the car says 14.5 kWh, it's actually 15.4 kWh. And then you even saw that the car is underreporting distance (222 instead of real 225 km) but you simply take the final distance at face value. You haven't driven 337 km, it was actually 341 km. 341 * 15.4 equals 52.5 kWh. Plus the 550 Wh of 2 % SOC remaining is a total of 53 kWh instead of 55 kWh when it launched. Or just under 4 % degredation.

[@bjornnyland]

How do you think the car calculate Wh/km? It takes the energy (kWh) used and divides it by the distance it *thinks* it is. So my method is actually correct.

[@kemering]

3:49 In the oktober software and navigation update you now get gps-speed and live charger status right on the infotainment screen

[@mister_jon_jon]

Really like these videos, and they can teach us a lot. But the values you get on the cars you test are probably not completely representative of the cars. It probably depends a lot on how the cars have been driven. But thanks for your work 👍

[@mister_jon_jon]

Just checked the SoH on our old Zoe 22kW, since 2015, 85010km, so not much really. SoH shows according to obd 91%.

[@user-xs1vu4tg8h]

I love this content!

[@wuchengranschiiet9992]

I feel like MEB has much less usable capacity than stated in the first place. You won’t get 77kwh out of the new Car.

[@wuchengranschiiet9992]

If I remember correctly there is a scientific test ongoing for the id3 with constant charge and discharge from a university and degredation was quite good.

[@bjornnyland]

It was never 77 kWh.

[@matteo0026.]

In my cupra born 58 kWh, I've never seen more than 53.3 kWh in car scanner, and it seems likely a common status with other owners. But sometimes 100% lasts even for 8-10 km, other times 500 m. Quite strange, the bms does strange calculations or whatsoever.

[@arekfpv3631]

Please do next a Kona 64 kWh. My car is 2021 face lift model, reporting soh of 90.7% on a Obd Car Scanner. 58.1 kWh left in a battery after 32000 miles. The car was just 3 times rapid charged. The rest of the charging was done on a 7.4 kw home charger up to 70- 80% state of charge and once every month or two charged to 100%.

[@sergeisheremet]

заряди до 100.

[@StartledPancake]

Our 64kwh e-soul has 0% degradation (its still not used all of the large buffer) after 2 .5 years and 60k kms. Always try to avoid charging in direct sunlight though and little rapid charging.

[@MichaelPanzer]

We have an id3 with 50k km and about 10% degradation after 3 years

[@mikecounsell]

😢

[@menestrello6159]

And how many km if I can ask?

[@MichaelPanzer]

@@menestrello6159 I've already written 50.000 km

[@williwerbung5203]

The bigger question is: Do you have a garage? How much DC charging?

[@MichaelPanzer]

@@williwerbung5203 No and maybe 5% DC charging

[@Roll_the_Bones]

As people have said, previously, and also below, first gen MEB batteries take a big hit early on, but then seem to settle down for the duration. I'm expecting better things from the next gen MEBs, just starting to emerge. In fact, if they turn out well, I'll renew my lease car with one, to replace my current TM3LR, which has been faultless so far, at 40k/km. I had considered taking it on directly, at the end of the lease, but the Chief Exec has put me off the whole idea now.

[@Lufthansa787]

We had the same issue with Zoe. After a BMS update we got from 85procent to 96 procent. 46000km ZE50. The oldest Zoe always get 98 procent SOH after BMS update.

[@simondehaas8784]

For ID3 perfect charging you want the min temp to be over 25C when you plug in.

[@ts250]

Thanks for the test. Do you know the AC/DC loading ratio of these cars? I mean we know that regular DC charging is not beneficial for the battery and back in the old days of the Ionic there were not so many DC chargers and presumably it was not used for far travelling because of the limited DC capabilities and range.

[@edvardasremeika3331]

This time I disagree. There is no such high degradation. I have id3 ProS and from brand new CarScanner shows max. battery capacity 73kwh. After 70k km I still have the same. I always get ~70kwh. One problem that Vw doesn't give us promised 77kwh. There are big buffers.

[@Zedus-rl9hp]

Then you seem to be in luck. The numbers shown in the video seem to be valid. And VW deliberately uses such a large buffer, because it partially can hides the degredation.

[@philipk89]

Something similar is probably going on with the Ioniq. Nameplate capacity is 30.5 kWh, while only ~26 kWh is usable. Though it seems Ioniq's buffer is at the top end, with (almost?) nothing at the bottom.

[@Eiswueste]

Isn't 77 kWh the net capacity with the buffers already subtracted?

[@Zedus-rl9hp]

@@Eiswueste yes

[@patrickcrombez150]

Had same problem with 77kwh id3, After 2years and 25000km i tested 67kwh usable only. Even if you add 3kwh of low buffet, it was more than 10% dégradation!

[@vitaliolieruk2244]

I charged my ionic only on fast charging. Mileage 170,000 km. Degradation 13%

[@richardpetek712]

@bjornnyland , Didn't the Ioniq have initially a 30,5 kWh gross / 28 kWh net capacity, when it was new? This would make it a 25.6 kWh / 28 kWh = 91,4% capacity or 8,6% degradation, which is still very good, but sounds far more plausible.

[@A.l.e.x.93]

No he doesn't. The capacity of the new Ioniq 28 kWh was 26 kWh. Björn proves this and even Aviloo says it's 26 kWh when it was new.

[@mateuszbalon3762]

Strange, it should be 28kwh initially ​@@A.l.e.x.93

[@A.l.e.x.93]

@@mateuszbalon3762 Sorry but it never was. I think Hyundai measured what goes in the battery and claimed 28 kWh. But for driving it's not important what goes in, it's important what goes out. And so you measure Degradation. You want to know what goes out.

[@bretimir2]

If you charge battery always at value of 80 % there could be the cell imbalancing issue. As far as I know BMS restarts when you drain the battery close to 0 % abd then charge up to 100 %. Try tgw test again after BMS restarts please.

[@Francesco93488]

If you come in the Swiss french part sometimes by any chance, I have a classic 2016 ioniq with 160'000km that you can try ;-)

[@pete9b]

Very interesting video, thanks for sharing!…

[@jhiodfnkl]

2:18 no fans better than only fans hahaha

[@dennis3644]

driver only 😂

[@pitu72ger]

Good test. Thx

[@Emilien-n4m]

Is it really 1.5% if you have a top buffer ? I think it's a legit strategy from Hyundai to have a top buffer to artificially reduce degradation but you cannot compare that number with other Evs because it feels like it's only a Hyundai/Kia party trick.

[@GranVlog]

Bjørn! raskt spørsmål, vurderer en Ioniq, og en eldre modell som første bil, men lurer på hvordan det er med kjørelengde og slitasje på disse bilene. Er 100.000km mye på denne bilen? og hva er det som isåfall slites ned og må byttes, og vil det være dyrt? Kjempevideo forresten!

[@erlendhansen6794]

I have an id 3 with 75,000 km, wondering what the battery degradation is on it

[@davidmotorsport1454]

But might the Ioniq has a secret buffer when it was new, like BMW i3 94Ah has? That they use such buffer in BMS to keep usable battery capacity up? At least my ID.3 with 50.000km has in Carscanner 50.5 to 50.9 kWh. Lack of Cobalt I heard?! Sadly NMC721 in VW "Einheitszelle" instead of NMC622 on Ioniq!

[@victormanin2074]

I am thinking of buying an id3 with 77kw pack so from this video it seems that is a bad idea. But from the comments it seems it is normal and not that bad. Damn i am quite confused now as to what should i do buy it or not.

[@dimitarapostolov4777]

Why 26kWh when new for ioniq? In ev database is 28kWh usable.

[@andreac7389]

This is the battery pack LG Chem - LQ 1729-A2 - 43Ah Polymer Pouch Type Cell 192 cells * 43Ah * 3.75V = 30.96kWh

[@dimitarapostolov4777]

​​@@andreac7389yes, this is nominal capacity, but 28kWh is usable( capacity after the buffer). So the buffer is 3kWh.

[@andreac7389]

@@dimitarapostolov4777 i think so

[@A.l.e.x.93]

​​​​@@dimitarapostolov4777 But it was never the usable capacity. From the beginning you could not use more than 26kWh. 28kWh is only what Hyundai claims. Probably Hyundai measured the capacity that goes in, if you charge from 0% to 100%. But what's going in is never what's going out on a battery. Björn and even Aviloo said it's 26 kWh. Björn tested it when it was New.

[@dimitarapostolov4777]

@@A.l.e.x.93 I see, thanks. maybe that is the reason for the small degradation - big buffer (almost 6kWh buffer?)

[@petyapyatochkin9630]

Had a brand new Ioniq pack also been discharged to 3.1-3.18v per cell?

[@anderslind8735]

What happens to Marcus bil ???? Its down😮

[@p1u]

works for me

[@MrJE728]

They went bankrupt

[@RuneVenes]

ded

[@KevinT3141]

​@@MrJE728I didn't want to believe it, so I googled it. I'm sad now.

[@JanSevera]

IONIQ glide about 250 meters further than ID3. It has 93km/h at 5:28 just before 700m sign. ID3 has the same speed at 14:19 and reaches the IONIG's sign 10 seconds later.

[@bjornnyland]

Speed reported on the screen is not always the correct GPS speed.

[@JanSevera]

@@bjornnyland that would mean that ID3 was on 90 km/h even sooner.

[@Szata76]

In the sheet, how the degradation per cycles data came out?

[@boerbiet237]

First ID could charge to 100%. After update VW introduced batterycare mode to 80%. Hopefully younger cars are better protected now

[@marccanas6502]

I own an ID3 pro s, and I can assure you the consumption the car reports i quite lower than the real one.

[@Mikkel-Hansen1987]

What will happen to Marcus now. have read they have gone bankrupt

[@mosfetkiller3851]

shieeeeet, is that true?

[@rdmax8841]

The classic 28kWh Ioniq has a net battery capacity of 26.6kWh according to general consensus by its online community. That would mean a degradation of 3.75 percent, which sounds a bit more plausible than 1.5% to be honest. Great video, thanks!

[@A.l.e.x.93]

The capacity of the new Ioniq 28 kWh was 26 kWh. Björn proves this and even Aviloo says it's 26 kWh when it was new.

[@michaelboucher5953]

I am confused, I always thought the 28kw Ioniq had 28kw useable. Was it only 26kw useable when new?

[@bjornnyland]

*kWh

[@ME-cb1vw]

90000km poor Ioniq. Almost unused.

[@Blasterxp]

Still fresh

[@Kortusmaximus]

What ist the Point? If you buy an ev secondhand you need to Check capacity left and pay what you get and that IS still almost Double of the Ionic.

[@bq5577x]

And it could still be the BMS takes more buffer, so you cant use it. And it could still be it will be above 80% for a very long time. And yes double the capacity means much more capable of long trips :)

[@fernandinand]

Are Ioniq 28 and 38 cells similar?

[@A.l.e.x.93]

No. Probably the 38kWh model has the LG E63 cells and the 28kWh model LG E41 1729 A2 cell. But I am not 100% sure but according to the data it seems like that.

[@fernandinand]

@@A.l.e.x.93 Thank you. I was talking about the degradation figures. I could not find any online yet.

[@dennis3644]

28 has more dirty Cobalt 😅 that's why it is so good

[@benellis7427]

Don't worry 38s seem to be doing extremely well as well. Most still have 100%

[@mosfetkiller3851]

@@dennis3644 i like the dirty cobalt produced by children

[@yingmustang67]

The good memories: you need the Ioniq always to top to the max, in other words always charge it to 100%! No problemoooooo! Such a nice EV!

[@klikar1982]

What is the source of information for kWh new in your excel sheet?

[@bjornnyland]

Actual test.

[@klikar1982]

@@bjornnyland actual test is for column kWh test, but what about column kWh new?

[@A.l.e.x.93]

​@@klikar1982 actual test when it was new and the actual test when it is old. Is that really so hard to understand? 😉

[@klikar1982]

@@A.l.e.x.93 yes. Did he really had the opportunity to test all cars when they were new?

[@A.l.e.x.93]

@@klikar1982 as far as I know, yes. If he got new press cars and tested it he always worked out the kWh. For example look at his videos if he got new cars.

[@dennis3644]

3:00 😅 👍🏻

[@swixie123456]

Happy to be rid of the ID3. it spent more time in the workshop than on the road.

[@albertillo85]

I think that Ioniq 1st edition had 28 kWh usable capacity and the degradation is higher.

[@bjornnyland]

No, it was never 28 kWh.

[@andid.3023]

Ioniq ftw!

[@nakfan]

Please don’t use the f word, Bjørn 😔Hecks is more you ☺️

[@CanisoGaming]

The ID3 is 4 years old yet i only see one or 2 roaming around, while going through multiple fookin cities, the sales are abysmal

[@MichaelPanzer]

In Germany there are a lot of ID3 driving around

[@CanisoGaming]

@@MichaelPanzer because Germany, so it makes more sense. I barely see them in Italy, France, Spain, Morocco etc..

[@MrPaukann]

@@CanisoGaming, idk, I see them relatively often in Milan. There aren't that many EVs in Italy in general, the people are quite conservative

[@CanisoGaming]

@@MrPaukann I'm in Florence & see teslas all over the place, the new model 3 refresh has been swarming the area since release, there's like literally 2 ID3s and one of them is practically dead never moves from in front of a house I always find it there think it has some issue that they didn't get to fix I guess. Also one ioniq 5 but see it pretty rarely going around

[@MrPaukann]

@@CanisoGaming, Tesla is the most popular, sure. There are certainly more than single digits of IDs in Milan. I wouldn't say they are much less popular than other EVs, excluding Teslas, ZOEs and 500es. I don't drive regularly, so that's only based on parked cars. The company I usually rent from (SbC) very recently got a fleet of Borns too.

[@Lestat1759]

9:14" - Ioniq has 28kWh net battery capacity when new, not 26 !

[@A.l.e.x.93]

No, you're wrong. The 28 kWh model could only give 26 kWh Out of His Battery. It's a fact. Björn tested this when Ioniq 28 kWh was new and even Aviloo tested the battery and got not more than 26 kWh out of it.

[@leo2finn]

@@A.l.e.x.93it was only calculated capacity based on reported consumption, which is possible incorrect

[@leo2finn]

You’re right. I charged 27kwth from 4.5% to 100% by carscanner obd report

[@Lestat1759]

@@A.l.e.x.93 30,8kWh gross/ 28kWh net capacity.

[@A.l.e.x.93]

@@leo2finn the calculated capacity it's in fact that, what you want to know. It's the real usable energy ^^ Not some net capacity and gross.

[@palusisko]

Whole word is waiting for solid-state battery :-)

[@tridruankham2657]

❤❤❤

[@Aikaramba12]

VW just constantly releasing 💩 cars

[@gerbre1]

It was their first EV and they got better with every new one.

[@96Lauriz]

@@gerbre1 No, vw had several ev's before, significant models were e-golf and e-up. Built on ICE platform like Hyundai Ioniq, but Hyundai still better built car as EV.

[@gerbre1]

@@96Lauriz First on MEB platform and if you have seen the id7 video it‘s clear what i mean.

[@snake_eater4526]

Huh i thought ioniq 28 was net 28 and 30 brut

[@jasonallatt5410]

He tested when new and could only get 26kw, so that’s what he bases it on

[@bjornnyland]

*26 kWh

[@snake_eater4526]

@@bjornnyland huuuuh that change my numbers a lot than... My 165 000km ioniq have 10% deg so with your numbers that would leave only 23.4. craaaazy

[@andreac7389]

Mmmhhh, i think that this is how is compose the battery pack LG Chem - LQ 1729-A2 - 43Ah Polymer Pouch Type Cell 192 cells * 43Ah * 3.75V = 30.96kWh not 26kwh net

[@ulrichtimm2508]

A good reason not to buy an EV..

[@A.l.e.x.93]

Good reason to buy an old IONIQ 28 kWh!

[@mosfetkiller3851]

yes buy a clean and cheap diesel car

[@tridrean]

❤❤❤