Black Myth: Wukong Devs Have Issues With Xbox Series S 10GB Memory

[@TheViralKontent]

With zero experience in PC optimisation and complete dependency on UE 5 this is not unexpected. There are Devs who made Days Gone possible in PS4 and there are these who are struggling with a console that is 6 times faster.

[@noahflare6825]

💯

[@cosmocalisse]

Horizon Forbidden West runs on on BASE PS4

[@Mcnooblet]

Series S is 6 times faster? Days Gone is comparable to Wukong? Ok... yeah 100%...

[@adlibconstitution1609]

Series S is not 6 times faster than ps4

[@TheViralKontent]

@@Mcnooblet PS4 ran on jaguar cores and they are comparable to a cheap mobile processor of late 2000s. It's NOT always about only GPU when you are looking at a SOC. Developers need to work on optimising the game according to the hardware. Go and get a basic idea of 1000s of zombies were rendered on screen using a mobile processor. You will get the idea.

[@mosdefinitelynot]

A Switch 2 Wukong port would be the funniest thing ever

[@muddrox887]

That would be funny as hell

[@brandonn161]

There's one. It's call Wukong Sun: Black Legend 🤣

[@Seacle14]

@@brandonn161How is it possible for there to be a port to a console that is not out let alone announced.

[@brandonn161]

@@Seacle14 It's for the Switch

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

Switch 2 can’t handle a port of Black Myth Wukong as it’s too underpowered.

[@MrSTVR]

Everything is an Xbox, except Series S

[@ericmontreuil2618]

Love it!!😂

[@mikeuk666]

You mean everyone is a good developer except .......

[@Zeroxx1]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 That's 2 funny. Everything is an Xbox, but series S

[@chrisbrown113096]

@@mikeuk666everyone ? That’s a stretch lmao

[@headninjadog8120]

😂 winner 👍

[@mynameismud-qd9vu]

They obviously don't have pc optimization experience either lol.

[@Javier64691]

If the Xbox Series S had 4GB of total RAM, people would still say that they don’t know how to optimize for it. If it was 12GB, then sure, it’s enough, but 10GB total is not. Xbox Series S was from the beginning a headache for developers, held back the entire generation and people will defend it because it’s cheap while ignoring the reality of that hardware. Guess that decision bit Microsoft in the ass by losing millions of sales in Black Myth Wukong.

[@steel5897]

Doesn't the game run at playable speeds on the Steam Deck? You can't get more "optimized" than that. I'm really tired of gamers these days whining about "optimization" all day while actively and aggressively rejecting new technologies that actually help them.

[@GamingNightsNeoMasaki]

Their market is pushing for ai, just let ai do it😊 Right?...😂🔫

[@gaganbhullar2985]

​@steel5897 not really, drops below 30fps consistently. Not impressive compared to something like cyberpunk. It's their first game and it shows that in optimization department

[@BadEnd98]

@@gaganbhullar2985 it's impressive given it's an unreal engine 5 that doesn't run like sht on lower end hardwares

[@АртемВласенко-щ5п]

last os us 2, spider man, god of war, Horizon look much better on base ps4 with 1.8tflps, then Wukong in quaility mode on ps5. Insane

[@THUGPUTIN]

I just don't understand why wukong is so demanding 😂... It's poorly optimized game, let's be honest... These guys needed Sony and Xbox help to port the game... I don't know of any studio asking xbox and PS help to port the game openly these have....

[@АртемВласенко-щ5п]

@@THUGPUTIN Yesterday, I loaded save at the end of the game. Textures of rocks literally like ps3 (not ps4). I did some screenshots. (I played base ps5). Artifacts, and entire picture really almost ps3, it's so bad. I just wondering, so many months past, why they don't fix this shit. It's so popular game, got GoTY and nothing

[@imo098765]

welcome to UE5 and TEMPORAL upscaling

[@АртемВласенко-щ5п]

@@imo098765 but games I've provided have upscaling as well.

[@adlibconstitution1609]

​@@АртемВласенко-щ5п Battlefield 5 have way better textures than Wukong and I played both consistently.

[@icybillythekids6670]

No surprise for me,considering the game had memory leak issue at launch.And still a bit poor on vram management now for my taste.

[@shoego]

Funny I never experienced this suposed memory leak. And I have been playing since day one. The problem, I belive, is that engine and graphical assets uses 12gb of combined system memory, and series S has 10. This means going through EVERY GAME ASSET and chopping off detail to fit the 10gb memory buffer, which is not easy AT ALL.

[@icybillythekids6670]

@@shoego The issue was easily triggered running on a 16GB RAM and 8GB VRAM system using high texture setting and ultra path tracing.The game would crash at pause menu when afk for a while.The time for this increases as the memory increased to 32GB.Certain areas that previously run fine would experience out of VRAM performance loss after some time playing.Developer mentioned fixed the issue on the latest patch note but I haven’t test that consider I already finished the game and deleted it.

[@icybillythekids6670]

@@shoegoUsually I won’t expect that 10GB RAM becomes a issue when the game runs fine on a 8 GB VRAM GPU

[@charlestrudel8308]

@@icybillythekids6670 the series S will never run with path tracing thought... so if the memory leak happens there, its a complete non argument for series S

[@icybillythekids6670]

@@charlestrudel8308​​⁠path tracing is just a fast way to get a heavy VRAM usage since you won’t have a issue with 8GB GPUs otherwise.PS5 version is a better example for you since the day 1 version was using just medium texture quality and would also drop frames and crash after playing for too long.Any potential memory leak would easily become a disaster for series s when it already has a limited ram pool

[@LauBuk]

shocked so many people think the dev blames xbox when the CEO only said "sorry we can't do it".

[@wearyolive76]

but the drama your missing out on creating fake controversy though

[@yujilee112]

as i always say Series S make Series X become Series S Pro, literally holding everyone back.

[@itsmatt517]

The OneX was the OnePro, so that seems logical

[@RickyEnEspanol]

It isn’t a problem. Series S optimizations made the PS5 versions and PC versions better, Larian said so themselves. So we’re really only talking about a single Chinese developer. Who gives a shit.

[@TooToo246]

Horizon: Forbidden West, GOW: Ragnarok, Spiderman: Miles Morales, Last Of Us 2, Ghost Of Tsushima.....Are all games that exist on both PS4 and PS5, with the PS5 versions not being held back by the PS4 versions....Sony could've also released slightly lesser versions of Spiderman 2 and Astrobot on PS4 if they wanted to, but they didn't because they wanted to boost more PS5 sales! Case in point: If the PS4 could do it, there's no reason why the Series S (which is more powerful than PS4) couldn't!.....The problem is not the console, it's UE5 and the new, unseasoned developers!......UE5 is a curse on the industry, UE4 is still an extremely capable engine, the small upgrade in fidelity that UE5 offers over UE4 does not justify the massive hardware and performance tax we have to pay for it!.....Also, on top of UE5 being already heavy on the hardware, devs using it were found being extremely lazy and careless with it. Silent Hill 2 for example; Threat Interactove on YT, went in full depth as to way Silent Hell 2 remake is a prime example of how devs just don't give a sh*t about optimization. Very simple solutions, if implemented, Silent Hill 2 remake could've turned out twice as efficient and twice smoother with twice the fps, but the devs just didn't care! Death Stranding on PC, which is a stunning open world game, can run smoothly on my very old GTX 970, due to the Decima Engine being amazingly optimized. I bet my GTX 970 can still run Horizon Forbidden West on low settings, since it's developed using the same Decima Engine!

[@danielcordero901]

I remember the old days when developers were creative and solve problems and don’t complain about not having 300 gb on RAM to run games.

[@abemickeygaming7742]

Im pretty sure developers also remember when xbox gamers purchased more games and wasnt always talking about gamepass ..wasting resources on xbox isnt the meta

[@noobbotgaming2173]

I remember the days when developers got excited when they weren't hampered by system limiations. Bethesda devs were overjoyed when the Xbox 360 had better specs than the Xbox.

[@2feetsandamushroom]

Remember when companies released new products that had better specs than last gen? Good times.

[@ArcticPrimal]

Black Myth performance has been sh*t since release. Devs don't know how to optimize for any system both PC and console

[@BastianRosenmüller]

Yep this is this focus on demanding technology and graphics. They could have made a game that run well on a wide variety of hardware but nope they decided to go for all the graphical bling bling that nobody cares about and only people with high end PCs cant run accetable.

[@x0Fang0x]

​@@BastianRosenmüllerit doesn't even look s tier but the performance suffer

[@BastianRosenmüller]

@@x0Fang0x i think it looks good but it doesnt justify the horrible performance.

[@divertiti]

​​@@x0Fang0xWukong is one of the most gorgeous game in recent memory, what are you on about. It runs flawlessly on a decent PC. I've seen ppl run it over 60fps on an old 3080

[@teamdoa]

@@divertiti Aye, it looks amazing, and it runs at 60 on my 3080 10Gig @ 1440p

[@smidlee7747]

Black Myth Wukong is an unknown title with no history. It's more risky than to invest in a known franchise. I would think the developers had to figure out at the beginning of development what they aim for and had less options than a well known franchise

[@zerosam5541]

The game had a history its called journey to the West

[@wg8561]

Let's face it .. the S stands for Shite! I got one for my daughter because she has a 1080p TV so it made sense but really it holds Xbox back. It would have been better to just have the X then later a pro version.

[@FoxUnitNell]

The series s was easier to produce so material shortages weren't affecting them so much that they always had a next gen console on the dock then that series S with its cheaper price attracted the 20 million 360 users that didn't jump ship to the Xbox one but still likely had dozens of games for gold games to play on a series S. It was an ok strategy that just didn't pan out for them.

[@hitbm4755]

I noticed at 9:48 you guys compared the 40FPS on 120Hz vs 45FPS on 60Hz and noted it as strange. I mentioned this on one of your previous Wu Kong videos, 45FPS actually has a stable cadence on 60Hz, because it alters between 30, 60, 30, 60, 30, 60 continuously if frame paced correctly. It is not as smooth and without jitters as a 30FPS or 60FPS lock, but it is one alternative. Obviously, three quarters of 120Hz would not be possible and 40FPS divides three times into 120Hz so it will give the smoother motion. The equivalent Balance mode on 120Hz would have been a 90FPS lock if it was possible, then it would alter between 60 & 120.

[@heideknight7782]

In case of Lords of the Fallen (2023, UE5 game) the game did not perform very well on both the Series S and X (and PS5 as well). You also made a video about this where this could be seen. Then the developers made dozens of patches to also reduce the memory usage of the game. An example from patch v.1.1.216 for this game: "Revised some global textures to reduce memory usage without any apparent loss in visual quality.". And maybe GameScience have to go through their game with a similar approach now to provide a smooth behaviour in the performance of the game on the Xbox Series S.

[@TheFirstRealChewy]

I'm going wager that they didn't delay the Xbox version because they wanted to game to run buttery smooth on Xbox consoles.😅

[@Manganization]

Yeah, if it's one thing I appreciated about Lords of the Fallen (2023) was that their patches provided you with some UE5 insight, if barely. Optimisation patches to mesh counts, lighting and shadows. Fixed issues with object boundaries and the such. You could tell that they were learning more about the engine as they go.

[@heideknight7782]

@@Manganization Definitely. While I did not like it very much that they made weekly (!) patches for the game that also affected gameplay (sometimes in a non optimal way for my character) it was very good that they made the patch notes in such a detailed way. I have a lot of respect for these developers now, given that they also added a lot of playmodes for the game all for free.

[@DeesBees85]

Wukong is a very badly optimized game. That is the real story here.

[@TheFirstRealChewy]

So when they optimize the game for the Series S they can release a patch to optimize the game for all platforms.

[@blikpils]

The only thing they had to optimize was the two year old expectation that they were going to win game of the year.

[@adaml.5355]

That's why Nvidia uses it in their advertising.

[@hippocreation]

Wukong runs like butter on my PS5. I’m already on NG++

[@kennethparris4680]

I just dislike the people think the devs are lying because they got money from Sony vs them not having console or optimization experience.

[@zorroknowsbetter]

Funny how the comments are blaming Series S when the developer doesn’t even have a good port on like, any platform.

[@AlejandroOni]

Brother, you can literally run BlackMW on rogue alli. You want to know why? Because It has a minimal of 12GB of ram. Every card that has less than 16GB of ram stutter horribly with when running Black Myth. It's just a fact.🤷‍♂️

[@zebrapleco7895]

Because series S is hot garbage

[@danielcano4243]

​@AlejandroOni Avatar Frontiers of Pandora PC requirements are minimum 16gb of RAM to run at 1080p, guess what? That game runs absolutely fine in the series S

[@Manganization]

@@AlejandroOni that's his point, mate. You can "run" Black Myth on PC hardware, but anyone with eyes can see it's not running as it should.

[@matt281273]

​@danielcano4243 Don't go using common sense on these people. It just goes over their heads😅

[@meisterwu8922]

Modern day developers when they actually have to optimize: *CONFUSED SCREAMING*

[@noobbotgaming2173]

Cyberpunk 2077 and Horizon Forbidden West can be played with 2021-present hardware on 1440p 60+ FPS no upscaling needed. UE5 is the problem.

[@joeXjoeX]

Modern day developers when they have to optimize (and spend extra $) for a console that has an install base 1/4 of it's main competitor: LOL NOPE

[@Rex-ww4cw]

Why are you expecting new studio to optimise game like some of the biggest AAA studio who's been developing games for decades ? These people are new to the sector and a lots of times they don't have the budget or talents to optimise the game

[@samash4917]

Let’s not act like Hellblade 2 was doing anything strenuous lol. The captain obvious about them doing their first console game is staggering 🤣🤣🤣

[@HellhoundXIV]

I call BS. Either they don't have EXPERIENCE IN OPTIMIZATION or they just don't want to do it. As long as the Witcher 3 port on the Switch exists, I will forever see these "ohhh there is no memory, ohhhh there is not cpu cores, ohhhh the ray tracing is not there" as laziness.

[@citizen3000]

The Witcher 3 on Switch looks like shit.

[@HellhoundXIV]

@@citizen3000 I know, it runs like shit and looks like shit, but that is not the POINT here.

[@citizen3000]

@@HellhoundXIV oh yes I forgot to add that it runs like absolute dogshit, too

[@Dbxmdkdjdjdi]

They lead dev said they don’t have the experience in optimization

[@IxChipmunk101xI]

@@Dbxmdkdjdjdi We can tell

[@steven7297]

Now imagine the 5070 w. Dlss, reflects 2, frame gen, frame gen x4 + rt. The vram limit will be hit quickly Yet “it has 4090 performance”

[@pyu771]

As a longtime PS gamer, when devs preferred making games for Xbox 360 over PS3, we had to point the finger at Sony for making PS3 so difficult. But it bounced back towards the end of that gen. Most XBox fans won't accept Microsoft made a bad call.

[@agent_mc]

That's because good games were being pumped out for the PS3 👍👍👍

[@Mmachine88]

"You could see a game like this on the PS2, in terms of the game world design" - now that's a damning statement if I've ever heard one before haha

[@zedetach]

This is actually true for 90% of games today.

[@mauriciohiure2192]

games like BMW on the PS2 would have waaaaaaaay smaller explorable land tho, like cmon, Yellow Wind Ridge alone is bigger than most PS2 games on explorable land

[@Mmachine88]

@@mauriciohiure2192 Of course of course, It's still a wild thing to hear lmao

[@layzie45]

In the year of our lord is the funniest running gag in DF. Love it.

[@urazoktay7940]

Amazing video, thank you Digital Foundry.

[@wile123456]

Of course they have issues. Their game uses the worst engine in the industry, and they are technically incompetent, running lumen and dynamic lighting for a game with only completely static environments and nothing being dynamic. The fame runs at 720p on the big consoles. They have no clue what they are doing. Also nanite sucks ass and is itself a waste of memory and the sand used to make the chips needing to run garbage in programmable form

[@FirstNameLastName-xe4mx]

Agreed , I miss the times when devs would fake the effects instead of simulating everything.

[@nihilityjoey]

Best comment

[@led-0185]

Games like Gears of War 3, Halo 4, Battlefield 4, Forza Horizon 2, Watch Dogs, Bioshock Infinite ran natively on the Xbox 360 using 512MB of shared system memory. These devs are pathetic, having access to high-speed RAM yet their unoptimized mess of a game can't run on 10GB of it? Insane.

[@ThaexakaMavro]

unreal doodoo engine is the real issue

[@gwellz]

Some of those games did not run very well

[@gothpunkboy89]

They also often ran sub 720p and less then 30 fps.

[@Nobbie248]

​@@gothpunkboy89 thats almost nothing to do with amount of ram lol

[@DefiantStyle]

Brings up nightmares of trying to run Mort Kombat X with 2 GB of VRAM instead of 4. 60 fps locked at times to a jittery slideshow. Completely unplayable

[@MohammedAlSalihi]

Can the developer release native Xbox series X port and make series s stream that port ( like cloud version)if it can not run it ?

[@FoxUnitNell]

Xbox refuses to have less features between the too SKUs. I believe some split screen function of balders gate 3 on the series x was it's one exception to that rule which is why that game also had a delay on the series consoles.

[@Kirii86]

The best Alex psudo religious statement will remain “Pray for the Xbox”

[@Reveal_City]

Weird question, but is it possible to update the engine version the game uses post-launch?

[@BadEnd98]

Nope, you might aswell remake the game

[@comicipedia]

Yes they can, it's fairly straightforward to do, the original trailer of BMWK was on UE4 and they upgraded to UE5 for the second trailer. The issue is that some things might not work the same way they did on the older version and it could create lots of bugs. The other issue is it could cause a huge patch size that people wouldn't be happy downloading. As a rule of thumb major commercial projects dont upgrade the engine version unless absolutely necessary

[@Alcatraz760]

If you're epic then yes, since they updated fortnite from UE4 to UE5 and then to 5.1.

[@MadBrit26]

Another MS screw up! Why did they two tier this generation as it was always going to cause issues.

[@BastianRosenmüller]

Everyone seems saying the series S is holding the generation back. But i think this is not true. I think it is the focus on graphics which ruins the experiences on certain hardware. Devs could also decide to develope games that are easy on every hardware but no they want all the shiny graphics and Raytracing and UE5, which to be honest nobody cares about. Just give us great games that run well. This focus on graphics and demanding technology is holding gaming back. The devs of Immortals of Aveum , for instannce, where so stupid that they developed a game that could only be played by gamers having high end hardware , so they limited their game to just that tiny audience ( On consoles this game was nearly unplayable ) If they made this game accessable to everyone on a wide spectrum of hardware , they could have been much more sucessful.

[@kamilciura7953]

The only instance I can think of when Series S was the limitation is Baldur's Gate 3. Devs needed to cut out the local co-op because they could not make it run on S well enough and thus, Series X doesn't have this mode either.

[@RickyEnEspanol]

@@kamilciura7953series S still isn’t a problem even with minor hiccups such as these. The Larian devs just had to get a bit creative. Doing so, they found optimizations that made the PC and PS5 versions better. This is how it works, you should want every game to be optimized for Series S because it then means every game that comes out will run like greased lightning on anything higher spec.

[@JTracks305]

🤡

[@BastianRosenmüller]

@@JTracks305 you are a clown?

[@eastbeast1379]

If this developer wanted to place it on the Xbox, would it make sense to compress Wu Kong for the Xbox Series S? That's what Ftomsoftware did with the Nintendo Switch version of Dark Souls Remastered. And Baldur's Gate 3 on the Xbox Series S did cut out the local multiplayer to make it function well. Even early PSP games had games from the PS2 but compressed. I doubt it would devalue the gameplay or the visuals that much.

[@KingzWayzGamez]

480p 30fps and effects on low, it will run most of time stabil, maybe.

[@randomgamer19170]

I knew the series s would hold back Xbox since the console was announced

[@notesscrotes4360]

Actually getting a game running on so many different SKUs is very hard and very expensive; it’s why I never complain when a game takes a while to be ported or doesn’t make it to a tertiary platform (like Xbox in this specific case.) People like to treat multiplat games as a matter of fact obvious thing, but it never is.

[@ps61762]

Does Cyberpunk 2077 work on Xbox Series S?

[@johansvensson833]

yes and indy and gta 6 will work this company is crap at consoles

[@FisherTheGamer]

Everyone is blaming Series S when this time GTX 1060 6GB still playing most games on 30 fps 1080p Low to medium... people made Jedi Survivor On PS4 with solid 30 fps and there's that demn Series S fighting for it's life everytime new game is about to release😂❤

[@Longlius]

1060 6GB is only the VRAM. The requirements also call for 16 GB of system RAM.

[@FoxUnitNell]

@@Longlius yet that's pc ram while consoles have less ram dedicated to the operating system?

[@Longlius]

@@FoxUnitNell If VRAM is exceeded, the GPU can also map main system RAM to use (although with a performance penalty). So even if it's slower, the extra RAM does make a difference when it comes to getting a game running in the first place.

[@samwaller4092]

10GB is shared memory. RAM plus VRAM. That's usually 16gb system plus 6gb vram

[@gauwoof]

I am slow but I’m still playing my first walkthrough on ps5. Before the patch I tried balanced and then switched to quality in chapter 2. Then I stopped in chapter 4 and returned after the patch. Now with balance and vrr I can barely complain about performance. The only thing that irritates me at times is that ghosting thing where your staff leaves traces, or some small flying objects etc. and it is sometimes there, sometimes it is not. Maybe this is that framing this, not sure. But besides it everything looks and plays just great. (Except for some strangely low resolution textures on some stones or wood at times)

[@BadEnd98]

Ghosting is TAA/FSR/DLSS thing, DLSS is the best at it, FSR and TAA have more problems, and I believe PS5 used FSR

[@NewMateo]

The issue is it's not just them. Even starfield a ms first party game had to release all platforms capped at 30 fps because they wanted launch parity. The x got a path later for 60. It seems like the s is holding back alot of devs and games.

[@विचित्रलड़का]

No. There is no framerate parity. After performance updates when starfield became better in pc , they released a 60 fps more for series x.

[@NewMateo]

@विचित्रलड़का the hardware on the x was able to do 60 from the get go but the issue could be the launch parity built into Microsoft's clause. Same features at launch for all - see redfall. It's a mistake they even went to market with the S

[@विचित्रलड़का]

@@NewMateo DF did a video where they used pc parts equivalent to series x and it was not able to. Only after the performance patches , that pc could hit 60 fps. And soon after the 60 fps update for series x came.

[@NewMateo]

@@विचित्रलड़का counterpoint. Bethesda de-prioritized the 60 fps patch due to the console parity launch request via ms. We both don't know without working at ms but based on the sheer amount of circumstantial evidence I think something is up with MS's reqs.

[@Slacker28]

If optimization was the issue, why is it not on the Xbox PC app, Which games like Forspoken were on day and date?

[@Starless85]

The Series S is the Achilles heel of the generation.

[@mitomito9494]

If black myth played well on series s that will make playstation 5 look bad .

[@andrecassella6522]

So why isn't on Xbox pc app?

[@TruthHurts1519]

And someone how some dude made the game run on 8gb ram and 4gb gpu ...all bs

[@yantelessantana8660]

8+4 is 12 so they made the game run in 12gb of memory total

[@professionalspecialist5780]

@@yantelessantana8660 RAM is not VRAM.

[@zerosam5541]

@@yantelessantana8660 its called dedcatied vram

[@yantelessantana8660]

@@professionalspecialist5780 sure but I consoles it's unified.

[@forrandomsites3336]

​@@yantelessantana8660 consoles don't have an os that take up half your system memory, so that does fit reasonably in 10gb. Remember, there are pc games that require at least 8/10/12gb ram and a 2/4/6gb vram gpu that run pretty well on a ps4 which only has 8gb ram (technically 5.5gb for games), like recently The Finals (absolutely shocking it opens at all), recent ac games, Elden ring, and more.

[@Tangvu]

The Xbox Series S and the its compulsory port if you want to be on the Xbox platform has always been an idiotic idea.

[@danquaza9275]

If we as gamers can get it to run on the Steam Deck, in a completely playable state (maybe not the greatest experience, but is completely working and full package) then they could if they had some more experience in the gaming world. They are essentially an indie team that created a massively popular game and that puts them in a weird spot where there word is being taken seriously, when in reality they probably just don’t have experience and a big team could probably get it working just fine

[@Longlius]

Well the difference is that they need to get it playable on the Xbox Series S and then have it be approved by Microsoft QA as running 'sufficiently well' to be sold. It's not trivial to do especially when you're talking about dedicating paid developer time towards something that might generate maybe a few thousand extra sales.

[@papichuckle]

Devs can't even optimise the ps5 version

[@pyu771]

Have you played the PS5 version?

[@cun7us]

The game has been proven to run on PCs with either the same, or lower specs than the Series S, albeit with frequent frame dips which there already are on the PS5. So I don't get what the issue is here, unless they're refusing a 30fps cap which seems kind of ridiculous.

[@anicesweater8281]

Series S should never have been made.

[@keithnmoore2]

It’s probably worth the time vs money made to make the extra effort. The Xboxes probably don’t sell well enough to allocate more resources to make it work for Series S, and Series X owners suffer for it. Only the big AAA publishers can afford to do that.

[@m.heyatzadeh]

Even on my 4070 laptop with 8GB of VRAM and 32GB of DDR5 ram, I couldn't reach 60fps on very high and QHD Res without FG. Unless I put the DLSS on performance of course; That's how I could reach 60 without FG.

[@drndrfnz8786]

If we see BMW come out on XB in 6 months or a year that’s just a single data point. Making the leap to say that’s “highly indicative of exclusivity” is far from solid evidence or critical thinking.

[@AosZ]

When they make comments like other developers can do such and such on a Series S, I remember this awesome line: “Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave! With a box of scraps!”

[@chadarendse3222]

Idk if this would be considered a hot take, but I think the gaming industry would have been a lot worse off without the Series S existing. I'm not exactly educated on the matter in terms of how game development/optimisations work, but without the baseline of the Series S, hardware requirements for PC games would probably be a lot higher (8gb GPUs would basically be obselete by now). Overall game presentation on the PS5/XSX would probably be a lot worse with the lack of optimsation coming from targeting playable framerates on the lower end hardware. Take what I say with a huge grain of salt, but that's just my opinion. Also, the cheaper hardware was was always a win imo since it was a more accesible gateway into the next gen for those on a tight budget. It's just a shame it was never sold with a disc drive

[@santiagomoralesgarcia1802]

capcom was able to port RE4 from GC to PS2, even there is a port of GTA3 in dreamcast. They only need to low some parameters to run in xbox serie s, the thing is, it is worthy?

[@joebloggs1691]

I’m a developer, all they need to do is compress textures. The devs are stupid and suck

[@mindrover777]

May be it's all about the experience for them​@@joebloggs1691

[@sirve6028]

also i cant wait for you guys to make a dedicated video on what rockstar can push out of the series s with gta6 cause they will show others what is capable and not capable from the series s

[@F12H12d]

I would like to thank everyone on the video for their inputs but my god, did you guys utilise AI for your sound editing, everyone is speaking in calming tone and clear

[@cholo1990]

Microsoft are a disgrace, should refund everyone who bought the series x

[@bmuDLuck]

Can we fix the fucking lighting issues on already released platforms first?

[@Crovon1]

It’s only a reason when devs aren’t as talented with optimisation

[@EXTENDO_64]

tbh the series s is a hybrid next gen console, xbox one x has games that performed equal to the s... i wont be surprised if they start releasing ports on the s ... if the games have to be downscaled then its not a next gen console period

[@eatanotherzio6811]

I find it bullshit since GamePass can stream to devices and Consoles Series X native and Series S stream only WOWWHEE SO DIFFICULT

[@comicipedia]

Microsoft wont allow that, all games have to work on both machines

[@shakshaka8355]

Xbots in still in denial !!

[@aweskr]

series s was made so that they port all the games and be able to run on the xbox handheld. forward thinking.

[@lastmanustanding]

Series S holding back GTA6 is the worst.

[@hassosigbjoernson5738]

Looking how good God of War or Horizon Zero Dawn can look on a machine like PS4 Pro ... such graphics and performance (30fps) should be more than doable on a similar powerful machine with even much faster memory and storage! But Black Myth seems so be optimized poorly, especially when looking on lower spec PCs. So it's kinda the developers loss when they cannot get some of those 30 million+ XBox owners to buy their game.

[@60weHoodsta]

Yeah. I don't think they missing out tho. They sold plenty well already

[@GollumsJealous]

There will be no 30 million sales from XBox. Xbox players don't even buy Japanese games, so I can't imagine BM making any sales for XBox. Best for them and every developer in the future to skip the XBox and "maybe" wait for the next gen console Microsoft decides to churn out.

[@Longlius]

The discussion around this has been really weird - people act like Wukong is the first game where developers have skipped the Series S due to the constraints. This has been a long-time issue this gen and Xbox's already tepid marketshare doesn't really help make the case for spending resources cutting down a game to work on Series S when you could just sell it on PC and PS5 and still capture 80% of the sales.

[@sheppo]

Considering the matrix ue5 demo ran on S it seems childish to say a game on the same tech is technically impossible to get running. You tailor a game to the hardware, as has ALWAYS been the case. If it’s not happening it’s because the dev doesn’t want it to. Time. Money. Contractual. All reasons.

[@abeidiot]

no one cares what is theoretically possible. time, money, matter

[@pedrofraga4366]

PS5 version (and thus the future Series X version as well) also struggles. The game is GREAT but we can't deny that it's unoptimized. I actually stopped playing it in chapter 3 and I am waiting until they fix this. It might take a long time or it might not even be fixed at all.

[@tails300]

Series X may not grow port of this title, because of Microsoft’s policy that they have run on Series S as well.

[@hippocreation]

I’m currently on ng++, Wukong runs like butter on my PS5. What’s the issue you talk about?

[@pedrofraga4366]

@@hippocreation I see the game was recently updated. I will have to try it again. Just read Digital Foundry's "re-review" - things do look better but they still aren't perfect. But back on launch things were rough... I played on quality mode (not sure why since I hate 30 fps - but I actually got used to it) and chapter 2 and 3 were roughhhh

[@BozQ]

The only way to really prove that there is no exclusivity deal, is to allow GS to release the game on Xbox Series X first, and Series S later. The XSX is equally, if not more powerful than PS5, there's no reason to hold back other than their parity policy. Microsoft should be flexible. Release it on Series X, and then maybe lend them a hand in optimising for Series S.

[@kamilciura7953]

This would heavily damage brand reputation and it is not in great shape to begin with. Plus, majority of Xbox Series owners use S model, not X.

[@zerosam5541]

Micrsoft wont allow that games must be made on series s and x

[@dukmahsik]

10GB is unfortunate but chalk this up more to devs being newer to the series S

[@wearyolive76]

Got series s as my first next gen console. couldnt even keep up with halo infinite (a launch title) so not really surprsing its holding everything back

[@TickleFight94]

I guess we are just going to forget Paul Tassi and MS gaslighting the entire community that there was some sort of exclusivity deal?

[@Raven-lg7td]

For how long do you intend to ignore Threat Interactive channel, so called "tech-jurnalists"??

[@Alcatraz760]

I'm not going to take the word of a dev who can't hit 60fps on the PS5 Pro without frame gen as an insult to the Series S.

[@jegjrtp87]

They want to make money. They won't make money on xbox.

[@OnlineTuba]

So if they released it on Xbox are you really saying that no one will buy it? When Death Stranding released on Xbox it was the number 3 best selling game, so the narrative that Xbox fans don't buy games is incorrect.

[@uh_ant]

Just complete bs and devs that can’t optimize

[@DarionNexus]

10 GB is huge. Considering Switch and Nvidias 30 series and 40 series have chips running on 4gb and 6gb of internal memory. So yeah sounds like a developer issue. But that's why you don't listen to the peanut gallery. You listen to digital foundry

[@jeanvcetoutesr.2039]

This is not an indictment on the series ES get your facts straight the game was launched broken and unoptimized on every single platform are those systems ought to be indicted or maybe it's the developers are incompetent and stupid

[@xryanlee]

Why bother to make a Xbox version consider the game has sold $22m within 6 months without a Xbox version. It economically doesn’t make sense. I’d rather the devs spend their time and energy on the DLCs or new games. This is such stupid topic.

[@zerosam5541]

All that sales was thanks to pc

[@kuroinova2056]

Who's knows really, but there would be some advantages for it coming to xbox such as cloud gaming.

[@zebrapleco7895]

Series S shouldn’t exist. It’s been bogging down Xbox this entire generation.

[@joebloggs1691]

As a game developer myself, I don’t see the point in feeding the poor

[@zebrapleco7895]

@@joebloggs1691 previous gen hardware exists for people on a budget.

[@iamrkxi]

This game was meant to be released for the chinese audience ( PC gamers ), I can see they did not care about the performance on consoles during the eraly stages of development, plus its a UE5 plus they dont have experience with consoles .. its no surprise for me the ps5 version of the game is not great but honestly its a great debut for them ! FromSoft have been developing games forever on consoles and when u compare elden ring with black myth wukong on ps5 , both perform "just fine"

[@agent_mc]

The PS5 and pro consoles run it fine now

[@FEWGEE1]

Series Sh*t was a grave mistake.

[@johansvensson833]

but gta6 will run indy runs with no problem this company jist can not code for consoles

[@roksitzenfrei]

So how Will gta6 run os series s i think is zero procent gta6 Will be next gen game so only on next gen console

[@dylansandoval9841]

Doesn't it run poorly on PS consoles too? Don't understand how Xbox always gets the the bad press.

[@agent_mc]

It probably had issues when I launched but it runs smooth now and better on the PS5 pro.

[@NickFlack]

This is the catch. Most of reader choose trust the dev first by default. If what he said is correct, why he choose done this all by themselves and silent half of a year then said that? Even lack of experiences. Why he doesn't ask help to MS or tell to the media at first? So I still believe it's EXCLUSIVE DEAL.

[@andrewcoehoorn6505]

The S would have been a great idea if they didn't require feature parity. The S could be cheap "Next-Gen" Slash the Game Pass Machine. Then they could market, "Hey you like these next gen games? Want them to look and run better? Upgrade to Series X today!" Big swing and miss from leadership on that one in my opinion.

[@Camilo316]

I hope the Dev stick to not make a Series S version of the game so Microsoft doesn’t make the same mistake and make a weaker version of an Xbox. We all know main reason ports for games are taking to long to come out is because of the Series S and it is not fair the these devs have to put more work into a game if they don’t need to. Unless Microsoft themself’s are paying more money so they come out with a port for a weaker console. Devs already expressed that it’s easier to make a port for PS5 rather than Xbox series X . Now they also have the deal with the S with no help from Microsoft themselves.

[@AlvinWillistonDavis]

Pc development first, but cannot develop on xbox (direct x) but can work with Sonys proprietary apis...ok.sure. An exclusivity deal makes more sense due to the amount of marketing that Sony has poured into the game, why is this even a debate? Especially as the devs have not come out and denied it.

[@davidvillamarin-lj2pf]

Stop saying it's 10gb. Everyone knows the reality. It's only 8 for gaming. Again, only 8 are available for gaming. 2 GB are for everything else like the Operaring system. Yes, the s is a huge problem problem since day one. With cross Gen games that run better on the one x and ps4 pro. Facts, not opinions. 4 year later is a huge mess. The low amount of ram, the low Bandwith and the ridiculous weak gpu are just beyond bad. It doesn't marte how low the rez and setting of the game, is still hard to make run on the, potato machine

[@johnnyprodofficial]

Cyberpunk have even 60 fps on S but this one cant run 🤡 Only game that cant run on S. Trash devs for a generic "souls like" way of losing time in games that supposed to be fun

[@GollumsJealous]

Still better than the trashbox and its entire catalogue of fail games.

[@southsidetherealest2860]

Skip it put iton One X it has the memory and the Gpu

[@BespokeExclamationPoint]

How can anyone look at how Black Myth runs on PS5 and think oh this could easily run on a Series S? lol. GS is only 100 people and this is their first console game and 2nd game ever being developed on one of the most demanding engines ever. And don’t people find it suspicious that Jez Corden was the one who originally started the PS exclusivity rumour? And even more suspicious that he never posted the questions he asked like every other interview ever? Who’s to say he didn’t ask “have you heard of a possible PS deal?” I mean why did the person from MS say “we are working with Game Science to get the game on Xbox”. And why wouldn’t he comment on a shady deal with Sony?? Did Sony make him sign an NDA? Why would they need to be working with GS if the only reason for the delay was a deal with PS? Why hasn’t Sony put any effort into marketing it as an exclusive? Sony would be screaming it from the rooftops if they made a deal!!! Also why hasn’t MS taken Sony to court over it? During the FTC trial a judge ruled that Sony had to disclose all exclusivity deals it makes, which it already does with text on every game trailer. Yes 3 or 4 publications have heard that there was a Sony deal.. all of them likely using the same source. Jeff Grubb, Tom Henderson, Christopher Dring, and Jason Schrier have all heard that there is no deal. I tend to trust the 4 biggest and most accurate sources in the industry. Yes, Sony hasn’t commented, but they never comment on insane fan boy theories that has no truth to them whatsoever. Game Science made their initial statement, didn’t throw Series S under the bus cause they are a respectful company. But months later after taking abuse from Xbox fan boys, damn right they had heard enough and outed SeriesS. What is more pathetic is MS not owning up to the woes of SeriesS… I mean even their own teams are having issues, you can’t tell me that Starfields 14 month delay (which should have been 24 months) Halo infinites 13 month delay and cancellation of SS co-op, and every other delay they’ve had this gen hasn’t been due to SeriesS? Remember SeriesS has only 8GB available for games.. 8GB of 52GB/s memory. It only is able to clock at 224GB/s when it uses 6GB or less… I hope in a few years devs will openly talk about the problems of SeriesS. Cause apparently the 100’s of devs who speak anonymously to C. Dring at Gamescom about it aren’t enough. People need to remember that devs are neutral, no matter how much bigger PS is than XB, developers do not want to badmouth Xbox. I don’t know why people expect developers to openly bash Xbox when they are still a platform that they sell their games on. Microsoft needs to own up, admit they made a mistake not giving SeriesS 16GB. Remember the GPU is not the issue and no one has ever claimed it is. It’s the RAM.. always has been. And we are going to start seeing a lot more games skipping Xbox or being delayed in the 2nd half of the gen

[@Calm_Chaos]

I find it hilarious when I hear people spouting out the the XSS is holding back the XSX or its potato. When no game so far has missed this console.

[@smidlee7747]

Balder Gate 3 was delayed due to the limits of Series S. They were allow to remove split screen in order to make it happen.

[@Calm_Chaos]

@smidlee7747 and it's still on Series S, right? And really, how many people would have used this mode. Someone should put up a poll to see if this mode was needed.

[@argoniantuncboyacyan1780]

Series S owner detected.

[@MsUltraBob]

@@Calm_Chaossplit screen mode is actually awesome in BG3 especially if you have friends who also like this kind of games. Series S had problems with that mode that’s why Larian needed more development time for Xbox. Series S is weaker and it shows with newer games.

[@Calm_Chaos]

@MsUltraBob how does this show in newer game Indiana Jones, Hellblade 2, CoD 6, and others look great. If you are looking to perfection, then choose XSX or PS5 or, better yet, PC. Also, doesn't BG3 run terrible in split-screen. When looking at what you are getting for the price of this console AND the ability to play Gen 9 games with no problem. I don't see why there is so much hate for the Series S.

[@BigBev121]

Attack of the Potato S all over again. Potato boys also attempted a narrative of exclusivity deal. 🤦🏼‍♂️.

[@GollumsJealous]

Potato boys fail. I'd even prefer real potatoes over that trashbox

[@ericcarlton87]

Just release the damn game on Series X. Sorry Series S! The devs don’t have the experience or expertise to optimize the game correctly for Xbox.

[@comicipedia]

Microsoft wont let people do that, thats the whole point of this debate. The series S is a last gen spec, last gens Xbox One X has better specs, as such it means all games have to be cross gen if they want to run on XBox

[@TheFirstRealChewy]

They could easily say they are working on the Series S version and we can expect it a few months later. However the Xbox version will arrive approximately 1 year after the PS5 version... because there is an exclusivity deal with Playstation. Do you seriously think the devs are that incompetent that they can't optimize the game for the Series S when every other dev has somehow managed to pull this off for the last 4 years? Why are we going to pretend that Playstation has ever let the public know what's in their exclusivity contract? Heck, even Square Enix can't give details on their exclusivity deals with Playstation. Playstation has never revealed that they have an exclusivity deal with any company. We only come to know there is a deal because we start seeing exclusive content and timed exclusivity and we know that's how Playstation operate. Trust me on this. It takes extra work and time to optimize for the Series S, but the main reason you won't see it on Xbox until a year later is because of the exclusivity deal, not optimization.

[@lukesablade]

If there was an exclusivity deal the dev wouldn't say anything, and playstation would be promoting it. Baldurs gate 3 didn't release day and date and they had to drop features to release it on Xbox consoles due to parity that Microsoft require.

[@G360LIVE]

Yes, the game can be optimized to run on the Series S, eventually, but you're assuming the devs wanted to delay the PS5 and PC versions (and not make money on those versions) for a whole year just so they could get the game optimized for the Series S and release all versions at the same time. Look, I know you want to believe that there's an exclusivity deal, but that's just not true. If there was such a deal, Sony would be, at the very least, handling the marketing of the game, and they're not doing that.

[@TheFirstRealChewy]

​@@G360LIVE I stated nothing regarding delaying the PS5 and PC version. Also, delaying the Xbox version to further optimize for the Series S is not a problem. My assumption is that the amount of time that the Xbox version will be delayed won't be due only to optimization.

[@TheFirstRealChewy]

​@@lukesablade The devs could also say there is no exclusivity deal with Playstation. This doesn't mean that they haven't faced challenges with optimizing the game for the Series S. Both can be true. It doesn't make sense that Microsoft wouldn't care that one of the most popular games can't be released for their platform because the devs are struggling to optimize the game for the Series S. This is the same Microsoft that dropped the parity requirement for Baldur's Gate 3, allowed Cyberpunk to stay in the Xbox storefront until it was patched, and released Redfall in the sadest state ever.😅

[@lukesablade]

@@TheFirstRealChewyHas anyone actually asked the devs?...because if playstation have exclusivity i would have expected them to promote as so, just like stellar blade, FF7 and silent hill 2.

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

Try optimizing your shitty engine. I like how cyberpunk uses less Vram than Wukong when nothing is going on. One fuzzy dude and trees around. OPtimize your stuff.