Inside the Surveillance Room: Card Counter CAUGHT

Ever wondered when you look up at those black domes what the surveillance room is thinking? In this video we show you never before seen footage of a real card counting evaluation done by a casino manager & surveillance agent. Colin goes over what the surveillance room gets right & what mistakes they made while evaluating the card counter.
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[@uwillnevahno6837]

Casinos: You can play at our tables as long as you don't use your brain.

[@CorporalCack]

That was one of the more respectful backoffs I've seen

[@chriskurtz8744]

They were being filmed, wonder how much influence that had on it.

[@That..Guy..]

I work in surveillance. It’s not as big of an ordeal as you would expect.

[@tommarsden661]

@@chriskurtz8744probably very little. Casino staff are always being filmed.

[@chriskurtz8744]

@@tommarsden661 Have you seen some of the documentaries and times Colin has discussed what's happened to him? They can get very intimidating with people and detain them illegally. Inside edge great footage of this. Being filmed all the time, but by their own security.

[@tommarsden661]

@@chriskurtz8744 don’t care who is filming the police and gaming have access to everything already. Someone else filming shouldn’t change how you act. If it does they should reevaluate how they deal with situations. But yes I’ve seen a lot of videos of them acting inappropriately.

[@rreznor660]

It’s strategy, not cheating.

[@ride1123]

This manager deserves a handshake for being such a respectful reasonable guy.

[@petergianakopoulos4926]

He's on tape!

[@DavidRomero-vj4ld]

He had to be because honestly I don't think he's as smart as he makes himself out to be-in other words "he's not as smart as professional card counters." He knows about card counting and what it is, but he doesn't have that skill set.

[@andrew2393]

BJA is right about card counting. I use to think you'd get backed off immediatetly but the truth is most casinos are clueless or have a misconception of it. Also, get this, if you do deviations ESPECIALLY negative deviations such as hitting a 12 v 4, they won't suspect you of card counting because they'll think you're an idiot.

[@kevwwong]

I know enough about card counting to know that personally, I can't do it unless I dedicate myself full time to perfecting it. Mad respect to those that can and do count.

[@mattm7798]

Right! The margins are so slim you have to be very well practiced and disciplined

[@johnotoole5786]

It's not hard it's a plus minus system ur not actually counting kings queens 2 3s

[@lostconciousness4255]

@@johnotoole5786 the concept is easy. The memorizing correct moves, strategies and mingling with other players are necessary and only come with tons of practice.

[@tobyfitzpatrick3914]

Sign at a Blackjack table: _"NO THINKING ALLOWED"_

[@mattm7798]

Haha right! It's not enough that 90+% of the floorspace is slot machines, where there is barely any strategy, they have to monitor the blackjack table for card counting, where a talented person can actually improve their odds.

[@chuckecheese4124]

One of the best surveillance breakdowns of improper training and procedures some casinos make to back off a card counter. Great stuff here! Thank you, Colin and staff.

[@jkpiipickard]

Amazing access!! Can't believe they let you film all this...

[@jackjack8390]

I hope casinos see this video and learn something about being nice to all "players". Even the ones that have an advantage. No need to call the cops. Seriously.

[@BuceGar]

I think this asset manager did a great job.

[@scottk1298]

he was probably professional because he knew he was recorded for that doc.

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Haha. Could be!

[@stephenkearny1504]

Brilliant video. Though here across the pond I hear that certain surveillance crews watch these BJ Apprenticeship videos and learn how to pick off counters. Makes it more challenging to say the least.

[@chuckecheese4124]

That's why counters have to be even sharper

[@Hossyboy420]

This footage is pretty amazing honestly

[@mattmorris4016]

Awesome show!

[@oldmanstyl3]

This is great footage.

[@awkward0wl10]

How old is this footage? I used to work casino surveillance and our nearly obsolete gear looked to be about 30 years ahead of what's shown in the footage. Additionally, the errors on behalf of the casino that you highlighted are still rampant across the industry. To my surprise when joining the department, they used a very data driven and (to my knowledge, based on your content) accurate approach to handling card counters. Half the department still didn't really understand card counting, but our approach enabled the right people to always be the ones making determinations on card counters. Appreciate the content, this video made me grateful for the equipment that I used to complain about 😂

[@alanmccormick6911]

At 4:02 in the video the timestamp on the TV appears to be 2008.

[@aaronortwein9932]

We got our limits raised in 2008 to $300 so either beginning of 08 or post 2006. This was PJ Pockets casino. I worked there lols

[@awkward0wl10]

Thanks 😊

[@chuckecheese4124]

That's cool you guys know a little about surveillance, and worked in the industry. This footage was made way back, it is a clip in the Holly Rollers documentary about the card counting Church Team they put together. They extracted over 3.8 million from casinos. They did very well. Love this stuff!

[@tomshepherd7093]

17 years old. Technology has much improved now!

[@rainydayweather3014]

this was awesome

[@fljetgator1833]

Great video Colin! There should never be backoffs unless someone is drunk, obnoxious, abusive or combative. 😎🐊

[@RazorsCraft]

Great content! Suggestion for a video: stop gain and stop loss by session in card counting, showing the effects it has on each session and overall results.

[@chuckzamzow]

This is one of the most interesting videos Collin has posted to KZbin.

[@GRice999]

The security guy did have a good method for gauging whether the player might be counting, and he doesn't need an accurate count to do so. By keeping track of the change in count, and comparing that to any changes in bet size, he can get an idea. For example, it the count gets better for the player and the player lowers his bet, that's contrary with the strategy of a card counter. Conversely, if the count gets worse for the player and the players increased his bet size, that's also contrary to the strategy of a card counter. Either of those things happening and it's a good bet the player isn't counting cards. It won't tell security that a player is definitely counting, but it could eliminate the possibility.

[@BuceGar]

Agree 100%. BJA seems to be implying that if you don't know the EXACT count you can't accurately tell if someone is counting cards, this is clearly not true, and the asset manager even allowed the player to continue to play into a new shoe to determine the exact count just to verify his initial assessment. While I don't think casinos should be allowed to bar or stop players from playing these games at their discretion, I think this manager did a great job.

[@martinlaursen7972]

Interesting video. Thanks for sharing the4 insight.

[@kilex952]

babe wake up, BJA just uploaded

[@bradlyballock3052]

Colin love the videos. Still working my way through training. They keep me modivated.

[@michaelbraun6504]

"I commend his professionalism in how he conducted the backoff knowing that cameras were on him."

[@peanut8269]

Love the back off footage! I’m just curious if you’ve ever been so focused on the count that you say it out loud? Lol

[@BuceGar]

Very professional asset manager, he did a great job on both spotting and handling the situation. That casino is lucky to have him.

[@tomshepherd7093]

Yes indeed. Imagine a whole team in one table. They all be backed off, one at a time!!

[@sleong]

AMAZING

[@reubenahn8020]

The soft 19 double vs the five that they were scoffing at was probably the correct deviation lmao. Im assuming it was a positive true count for the guy to go three spots like that and u double soft 19 versus a 5 at a true 1.

[@barney69474]

Card counters are easy to spot out. We get an alert that a table's deviation is abnormal and we must go to the table and review play. If we suspect them, they will be backed off and added into facial recognition (you would be shocked at how good this technology is). FR is picking up 20 year old photos of people coming in

[@AveryBlueRemix]

What do you recommend?

[@truepain]

Loved the video Collin

[@RichardsWorld]

Suggested to the other Blackjack youtuber to acquire chips before getting serious about starting your session. Get some chips at a craps or roulette table . Get friends to get some chips from anywhere in the casino. Get some chips at blackjack, play a few hands and go have lunch, or go to other casinos and collect chips. If you have a team they can be in town acquiring chips before you arrive. Stepping up to a table and buying in for a lot of chips is a big red flag.

[@GrandFunker]

I really dig that the casino security is into the counting and knows the game 😂

[@kevwwong]

I think his understanding of counting - even though it wasn't perfect - led to the professional and respectful backoff.

[@Chance-ry1hq]

Card counters aren’t a threat to the game, they are a threat to the casino.

[@Chance-ry1hq]

@Hit-Me_BlackjackApprenticeship Gee thanks. YIPPEE!!!!

[@BIntheknow]

Another gem Colin. I just had a lengthy conversation on the topic.

[@chuckzamzow]

I would love to see other cutting floor footage from Holy Rollers.

[@Billionaireben]

Really cool to see a surveillance room, very rare; I heard it's state law that nobody see it and even employees don't know who works there as they're plain clothes and go in without being observed. The mgr keeps mentioning count, if it's a single deck game then the count is the true count; otherwise divide count by remaining decks (though a single deck could be more than the count as it's a fraction of a deck that's left but that might lead to over betting.)

[@johnotoole5786]

Single deck is not easier cuz the shuffle more frequent read the book

[@yourlocal_duni8204]

amazing video !! love the content !

[@JackpotHits]

What’s your Thoughts on a new counter that knows how to count good and can keep the running count but hasent quite mastered basic strategy since most casinos allow you to have the chart at the table with you is that a red flag? Or What’s your thoughts on that?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

We recommend perfect basic strategy 100% of the time before you start counting live games. There is too much to keep up with to be checking sheets at the table and the edge is too small to chance mistakes.

[@JackpotHits]

@@Blackjackapprenticeship sounds good! Appreciate the reply and keep up the great content!

[@3Brothers1904]

Great Great video. Thanks for putting this on KZbin!

[@bruce4139]

Hey colin, learning to AP and noticed with my counting that I seem to struggle with getting the correct count when there are more hands on the table. I think its because there are more changes in the count is this something you experienced before or do you think it would be something else?

[@GenXisT]

Of course there are more changes because there are more cards being played. this is BASIC counting. If you are struggling because there are changes in the count, which happens every single card being dealt, then you have no business playing at a casino and you desperately need more practice unless you want to lose all of your money.

[@bruce4139]

@@GenXisT yeah I havent walked onto a casino yet, however the thing is when I play 1 hand I can play it as fast as I do BS without counting but when I play 7 hands I actually have to pause the game to count them up

[@GenXisT]

@@bruce4139 - I see. Well fortunately, most casinos only have 6 spots. But even still, you could be playing heads up and using 1-3 spots or be playing with only one other person. But if you get a really fast dealer, you're going to run into the same issue, even if playing 1-on-1. I would highly suggest you keep practicing or maybe even go into the casino and do some live "back counting" (where you stand behind or next to the table and just count the cards while not playing.) The WORST thing you can do is lose the count. You can go off by 1, at most 2 cards. But any more then you're going to be making the wrong play, especially if you're also using the deviations.

[@RaidenMC12]

Learn to start cancelling out cards by glancing at them... Know +1/0/-1 and judge if you even need to count the hand when you glance at it... If the hand equals 0, no need to tax your brain by looking at it more

[@bruce4139]

@@RaidenMC12 yeah I've been doing that, my biggest problem seems to be negative counts and counts that flop around 0 I've also been working on finding hands that cancel eachother so if I have K,Q on one hand and 3,5 on the other I ignore all 4 of those

[@kylejohnston2120]

Sixteen years in this business and every backoff I have witnessed or been a part of has been like this. It’s not that big of a deal. The counters know why they are being backed off and it always has gone smoothly.

[@brianl2607]

pretty sure i can single handedly point out that my mistake that got me banned at FL casinos: hitting a 12 against a 14 on a super low count and winning the hand... 15 minutes later got a tap on my shoulder

[@chuckecheese4124]

Their surveillance was sharp! TC -0 hit 14v's4 proper play

[@MCKKEA21.]

Iv had a few backoffs and even held at security at a few places casinos just lose their minds with advantage players .This is definitely a mild manner back off..

[@jcdiaz4062]

Not trying to say I’m the greatest BJ player but last week I went to Golden coast casino. Bought in for 300 and I got up to 1,200 in 8 hours. (I cannot card count but I have decent basic strategy) they floorman changed the deck 5 times in that 8 our span and kept changing the dealers constantly.

[@briankleinschmidt3664]

If they don't like card counting, they shouldn't offer the game. Counting the cards is a skill that can be learned. It is used for more than just Blackjack.

[@ar3g0n810]

Nice video! It is nice to see what is happening in the backroom. I am however not sure if I agree with your bankroll management argument. You seem to suggest that they don't need to backoff counters that use invalid bankroll management. The fact that the counter doesnt have enough bankroll to sustain his betting strategy doesnt mean that he is placing +EV bets, resulting in costing the casino money. Furthermore, how would you know how deep the pockets of the counter are?

[@tommarsden661]

Only way is usually if they don’t bet enough relative to the count or don’t double or split when they should.

[@omarvargas6534]

That’s crazy I’m real close to Barona 😄

[@guibox3]

LOL! These guys had no idea that you were all card counters getting some valuable information. Even though they still got you, you still screwed them in another way. Ha ha!

[@GenXisT]

I have only been backed off once, and apparently that was because I did the egregious mistake of splitting 10s vs 6. Since it was a high count, I kept getting 10s so I split the full 4 total. I won all 4 hands only to have this happen again in the very next shoe. Again, I won all 4 hands. I tried to buy in again and was told I couldn't play. I'm convinced had I lost, they'd have said nothing. The second reason is that I don't spread very far. Table minimum to $75x2 maximum. Never any more than that. They don't usually care about red chippers with the occasional green. Lastly, I could be really bad at it and just don't know. lol.

[@casproductions6015]

What makes barona more smart or resourceful when deciding who’s an advantage player? I used to play there before learning to count and wanna make a trip back there now

[@Unh0lySpectre]

They consult with Max Rubin, a very experienced former AP, who takes training the Barona pit and surveillance crew very seriously. From what I understand, all Barona pit bosses and surveillance crew are adept card counters, i.e. understand the difference between true count and running count, understand deviations, and and know how to identify skilled APs.

[@grifter84]

@@Unh0lySpectre And because the Barona personnel have put in the work to learn the craft and been trained by someone from the other side of the table, their back-offs are respectful and non-confrontational.

[@billzbounce]

😮...Wow. Respect to the footage, Collin.

[@vaddix9980]

Wazzup Colin?

[@Sticky6Ft]

You've heard of Greg the Dealer? But no counter is ready to face Greg the Manager

[@fireforgegamming1095]

Underrated comment

[@noex100]

You know they're the same person, right? Greg used to be a friendly casino manager but eventually he got so tired of card counters that he decided to take everyone's money by becoming a dealer. And now... it's time FOOOOOOOOORRRRR.... the Greeeeeeeeeg SPECIAL!

[@chriskurtz8744]

Colin, do you know how much he won or lost during this time? How long did he play?

[@mattmorris4016]

Great back off! So low key & deescalating

[@vambo13257]

Threat to the game??? What they mean is, "not a loser"

[@kjm2989]

Yeah hes an advantage player

[@mikaokamoto125]

What casino was this? I saw you flashed barona's website

[@aaronortwein9932]

PJ Pockets in Federal Way Washington

[@alecorr1583]

Isnt another sign of a counter always jumping in at the beginning of a shoe?

[@reichen8511]

Wonging players behave the exact opposite

[@skyed3506]

As we gain knowledge, they will too with this video and now know what true count is 😔

[@majorleagueblackjack27]

What would be the deviation of not taking insurance when the count is eight on a double deck?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Insurance deviation for DD is True 2.5 (and above) so if you have a running +8 at any time on the DD you would take insurance.

[@shauL__]

damn $25-$600 is a crazy spread 😂 i hope the game was worth it for the clip at least !

[@TheIbney00]

Sounds like a double deck game. Depending on pen he was probably making 200-400 an hour lol

[@jessewright8556]

Any counters in the central missouri area?

[@DrSchor]

yes

[@michaelblankenau6598]

No . Too many hillbillies.

[@Thewinner312]

wow, this is a lot more low tech than I would have imagined. I would have thought they have computer systems automatically tracking count and player strategy.

[@loupasternak]

this is ancient footage. they probably do now, AI and all

[@PlayBetterSlots]

Good info but the footage is very old. CRT monitors and VHS recorders? I highly doubt any modern casino still uses that old equipment. Still interesting!

[@jamesdean3014]

Let's talk about what Colin got wrong here: He misspelled "management." 😁 7:52

[@therealdarkknight480]

Bro that video boss gots me mad cause the way that guy was betting could of deadass been random

[@Jim_maco]

Very professional back off. If you think its ok to back off a player for understanding the game.

[@21AceJack]

This surveillance room footage is so crappy and old. Like old school vhs taped footage lol. Newer rooms and cameras are so much better and advanced

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Get me some new footage! That'd be sweet.

[@That..Guy..]

It is old and crappy, but I’m thinking that’s the review room and not the surveillance room. Because of its size and the casino manager being in it.

[@21AceJack]

@@That..Guy.. the fact there is one guy sitting in there watching cameras makes me think it is the surveillance room. It's just a small casino and doesn't need a lot of staffing but I could be wrong

[@That..Guy..]

@@21AceJack have you ever worked at a casino where the casino manager was allowed in the surveillance room? If this is real this has to be the review room. Idk how they got a camera crew cleared by the gaming commission.

[@21AceJack]

@@That..Guy.. I personally have not but I know in certain states they might be able to. It's not common I guess

[@dnalgedi6709]

does card counting works with casinos with 'snail' machine?

[@nowyouredoingthesponge4644]

Thinking of a way to have an unfair advantage of winning more money is no different from the house thinking of an unfair advantage of winning at that same game as well and taking your money...But you wouldn't want them to do that right? I couldn't imagine if the shoe was on the other foot that the player would like that very much.

[@william-uc2oy]

I’m not a card player but I agree the manager was really polite and professional. Anyone offended by his actions would be a pretty lousy person.

[@mattm7798]

I think I would go crazy from having to stare at a surveillance monitor for 8+ hours per day. Feels like the definition of tedium.

[@Ghofy]

Insane, how about winning online?

[@DrewIsARealBoy]

Bro literally said “I don’t need to know the count to know if he’s counting” WHAT? lol

[@Jeremy_the_bot]

That isn't what he said

[@undetected2088]

Casinos spent their entire existence as a concept, raising their odds and coming up with every possible way in the world to insure that their “customers” not only lost virtually 100% of the time but that each single one of them was “allowed” to loose as much as they determined that person capable of loosing… Now, you go in there trying to count cards and they call the FBI on your ass

[@SimX9000]

I'm sure it's only a matter of time with way better Camera's and AI it's gonna get harder and harder to count.

[@chuckecheese4124]

Naw

[@RobertLipson-yu6kl]

Can Baccarat be beaten by a skilled card counter with ideal conditions? Has it ever been done/attempted?

[@DrSchor]

it is attempted every day, what were you thinking?

[@michaelblankenau6598]

@@DrSchorno . There is no way to beat Baccarat counting cards .

[@brucea9871]

I have an idea of what blackjack is about. The idea is to get a total card count closest to 21 without going over 21. But I have no idea how the betting works. Nor do I understand what you mean by card counting. What does it mean, and why is it considered cheating?

[@johnotoole5786]

It's a plus minus system the more 2 to 6 cards dealt leads to plus ten thru ace leads to minus 789 negated if more lower cards dealt leading to plus deck like when it gets into the teens then much higher probability dealer is to bust. U have to learn basic strategy first

[@brucea9871]

@johnotoole5786 When I read your response I felt the same way as I did in the past when I read a column on bridge (the card game) in a local newspaper. I didn't understand a word of what you wrote. But don't bother trying to explain again. It would take too long to explain it to someone like me who knows little about card games.

[@jimhanty8149]

I always vary my bets 2-3-4-5 X based on gut feeling…i most always win the night.…have my whole life… don’t know how I do it.. I also know when the feeling says quit and call it a nite, SO, I quit and call it a night. Also , I also know always about 3 seconds before a cop is coming or sitting on the highway waiting to radar me …I can be the driver OR passenger…I still know… something in my head clicks I and slam the brakes down or shout out slow down to the driver…. and then there is a cop …80 -90% of the time…been doing it since college in the 70’s ..I have never had a speeding ticket…nor anyone I road with. Most of my friends who have witnessed this happen many times are sorta scared of me… hell , I’m sorta scared of me… True story….J.

[@DCAANDPRAY]

the casino managers are not math nerds so them doing the true count vs running count is gonna be harder for them. They are there to manage the floor not count a true count vs running count.

[@nyc1ts932]

Maybe the manager got a whiff of what was going on and didn’t want to give it all up.

[@basedad]

This is cracked footage

[@alexmacdonald9182]

imagine growing up and entering adulthood and becoming a casino surveillance operator

[@vtvincent4893]

I don't see a problem with it, some people probably enjoy it.

[@alexmacdonald9182]

@@vtvincent4893 those people are the same people who become cops, aka losers

[@theworldofwoo8320]

Their surveillance equipment and monitors look like they are from the early 2000s

[@jakel.2150]

I mean all in all, he was right to back him off. (right in the sense that Dusty was at the advantage.)

[@gparyani]

Something tells me that the backoff ended up being more professional only because he knew he was being filmed (for a documentary on casinos) and it would have been less so had he not been filmed.

[@royjonzejr]

You should probably make money counting cards while you can. Casinos will probably bring in AI software soon that can automatically analyze games and flag who is counting

[@sanfranciscobay]

Card Counters cannot hide. Large Bets towards the end of the deck and I assume winning is the evidence the Casino need.

[@vtvincent4893]

The problem is they don't need any evidence whatsoever, they can boot you out just because they "feel something is off"

[@wompastompa3692]

Using strategy to eek back the edge? Punishable by death.

[@SkellyHell]

Is it common for casinos with all their money to use old crt displays for their surveillance rooms? Seem like you will lose definition that could help you spot things

[@nowyouredoingthesponge4644]

I think that the perception is that you're just trying to win but the casino thinks of it as the unfair advantage in a small form of cheating. Cheating might not be the right word but basically it is a unfair strategy and like you said the dealer has just as much chance of winning as the player so shouldn't count cards to begin with... They should just play fair and square like everybody else.. So I agree it is using your brain and you shouldn't be penalized for that but it is still a business and if everybody did that then they can lose a lot of money. Plus think of it the other way around what if the game host did the same thing if it was allowed? They would not be allowed to do that either

[@edwincheyne6435]

If casinos are so worried about card counting why still use the shoe and hand shuffles ? The automated card shuffler nullifies the statistics. The same card can literally come out on the very next hand. It will be impossible get a positive or negative count.

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

CSMs are very expensive machines to lease and maintain. We have a video coming out shortly addressing a lot of questions around them as well so hang out for it.

[@llama9359]

Awesome video, great insights. I loved your analogy between chess and card counting. Makes the casinos look like even bigger cry babies haha

[@johnobrien8398]

Basically if you know how to play cards and win you will be under surveillance and accused of cheating

[@noex100]

No one is being accused of cheating dude

[@dkoch2]

I wouldn't have the mental capacity to card count, I'd be too obvious. I would be so eagle-eyed on the deck, not talk to anyone etc.

[@jkonrad]

You’d be a good poker player. Ever play?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Yeah, but never took it as far as card counting.

[@quasarsphere]

@@Blackjackapprenticeship Is card counting a thing in poker?

[@dullatron]

@@quasarsphere Not really. In seven-card stud you want to be able to remember whether you're drawing live and that there are still lots of diamonds if you're drawing to a diamond flush, but that's really the only game I can think of where there are a lot of exposed cards.

[@lostconciousness4255]

This guys rationale that making basic strategy "mistakes" is a surefire sign he's a card-counter is fucking hilarious. States should make it a LAW that if you are going to be backed off a game the table must clearly state that rule beforehand. I went to a casino that was double deck and got yelled at for showing other players my cards where as my usual casino they let me play face up or show others as I wish. It should be clearly visible, "card counting will get you backed off". If you are going to make arbitrary rules then they must be posted at the table, IMO.

[@fatzotv]

lol so they are counting in the security room.... but the players get backed off if they count haha

[@drakekarr5349]

They were on film....