BMW F2x F3x Powerflex Subframe Bushing Inserts, Not Recommended

[@sonertial9998]

I'll add another anecdotal data-point, since this is by far the best DIY video around (good job) for installing these bushing inserts, but results clearly differ between different cars and drivers. On my 2017 F22 M240i, with > 450HP (BM3 stage 2 catless), these powerflex bushing inserts (I went with the Black type) have completely transformed the car. This is one of three game-changers for the F22: LSD, Front LCAs, and these subframe inserts. These three modification have made the biggest impact on how the car feels. Tyres and the LSD sort out the traction, M3/4 LCAs and tension struts (sort of) sort the steering. I had been resigned towards making the big purchase of coilovers in order to try and fix how the car handles and connects to the road, especially under maximum tractive force, where these soft semi-M cars get horribly squirrily. But having put these inserts in this morning, I am reconsidering whether coilovers are even needed. The car feels planted. Certainly I can postpone that installation for a while longer. As far as NVH goes, in my case, I can't hear or feel any difference. The subjective impression is that everything is smoother since things aren't wriggling so much. If anything it's quieter, my subframe used to sing at a high pitch, that seems less now.

[@NJFPV]

Great video - i appreciate it. I know it's old... The entire purpose of these inserts is to do exactly what you experienced - stiffen - which can have no other affect than making the ride feel harsher. They are so gummy to begin with for that purpose - comfort and pliability. The purpose in inserts is to remove the movement, therefore hardening the rear, and subsequently increasing many things - among road feedback. In the same commute over harsh roadways, you mention it not having "connectedness" benefits, but I'd argue terrible highway conditions to not be the ideal test ground for weather or not you've gained performance capability - you're only going to see that pushing the limits around twisty roads - not on a shitty highway full of potholes and patches... These are designed to lock down the rear, decreasing flex and providing a more solid and stable plant to the car (especially RWD cars) to increase performance, help in applying power, and reduce unwanted response and input from the car. They are not a comfort increase - there can only be a decrease. There's a reason M cars have solid mounts, and non-M grocery mobiles don't. There's really only 1 reason - and it's not comfort, it's not adaptability over unkempt roads, and it's not noise reduction - it's just performance, at the sacrifice of all of those other things. These inserts aim to get you about 75% of the way there. For the metal inserts, about 90%, and poly bushings and solid mounts - 95 & 100%, respectively. I appreciate your video - though i think your expectations might have not been aligned with the true intent of the product. I know they all advertise "no increase in NVH! Just all good things!!!", but logically looking at how it actually functions, there can only be an increase in NVH, and that's intentional and a natural bi-product of solidifying things in the rear.

[@simonhaycocks]

I have got these inserts in my E92 330d. I fitted them after using a go pro to see what the subframe was doing before and after fitting them when i was driving in a spirited manner. The movement of the subframe definitely reduced with the inserts, confirmed by how the car felt. My car is a lot older so the original bushings are more worn so the difference will be more noticable i guess. The downside is they've created a drone at a certain RPM under load, something i've not found anybody else complaining about so i don't know why i'm suffering it. Anyway, because of that i'm shying away from replacing the bushings with polybushes and going to use stock M3 items which are a direct fit i believe.

[@EvilJ069]

FINALLY a before and after and not just another install vid... Thanks

[@I_got_10_felonies]

For anyone doing this mod, I highly recommend just doing the entire bushing instead of inserts. I just did this mod with ECS Tuning brand 95a poly diff & subframe bushings and the results are amazing. No added harshness (surprisingly less harsh than my previous OEM bushings) no vibration either but I do have more diff noise than usual. & I drive on shitty Texas roads

[@m.d.6649]

I installed the Powerflex black Bushing inserts in my F22 yesterday. Video was very Helpful. Ive noticed now that yes the ride is bumpier, comparable with stiffer springs but the front to back movement of the rear axle improved a lot. When the Transmission now shifts up the rear is no longer bouncing the car like a rubber spring, the shift jerk directly transfers in the chassis. It is very noticable in a positive way. Also when cornering it sits firm, not this kind of spring feeling like the rear axle is connected to the chassis with springs in a strange way. Regarding ride comfort: I expected a lot worse, it is ok for me even with bad pavement, this might be because of the shorter wheelbase of the F22 chassis i own... so For guys that are Planning to do this mod, be aware of the drawbacks but if you still wand to install them go straight for the black ones. I can Imagine the yellow ones might decrease comfort without gaining a lot of stability so they are not the best choice

[@BasRikken]

the whole F-series world: "these inserts are a must!!"

[@FiveBoroNative]

Greatly appreciate this video...! I have read for many many years that going to firmer bushings often doesn't yield useful benefits for a street car and can even make a vehicle less comfortable and less enjoyable. I was looking at these for my X5, which already has a fairly firm ride and I could appreciate a more connected feel and better handling, but not at the risk of an even harsher ride; especially considering that it is pretty awesome stock. For once, a video where someone does a mod and the results aren't that great and you weren't afraid to admit it. Thank you for this.

[@liquidsk8s]

Going solid rear bushings results in no difference to NVH and with superior control. The new M’s have all gone solid subframe bushings for this reason.

[@vollcare4076]

I have installed these on my F20 M140 and they actually improved the turn-in significantly. No noise increase, just a bit more harshness over potholes etc

[@wighag8508]

Same with my M140i: Big improvment of handling during acceleration, no more floating backend during acceleration an no noticable disadvantage for NVH. Perhaps it is more negative in combination with harder anti roll bars. I have still stock anti roll bars installed...

[@Yhyujss]

IAM thinking of doing this insert to my m140i. Under acceleration the car feels so disconnected from the front floaty and the rear loose BMW gave it peach of a engine b58 coupled with that 8 speed zf gear box then the the suspension from 118i don't get it

[@vollcare4076]

Thanks for your honest review ! ...usually everybody is just mentioning the positive things of their mods

[@FaRKle0079]

Thanks! That's part of the reason I started doing this. To give honest reviews of mods/products. I buy all the stuff I cover just like anyone else can to be objective.

[@vollcare4076]

FaRKle0079 did you take the bush inserts out again, and could you also feel again the improved NVH ?! ;)

[@PrevinPather]

Well done for giving an honest review of these inserts and not being a sheep. I'm not quite sure what makes people believe that pieces of polyurethane or teflon composits are going to suddenly change the car in a phenomenal way.. bmw spends billions on engineering literally.. these things are cheap as chips to produce if they work surely we would see them somewhere in the motorsport line up... people with F3x/32 shouldn't even consider these due the longer wheel base and lower natural frequency sorting out a ton of the inherent waywardnes of the F20/21. In short Fit KWs or Bilsteins and run a good compound tyre

[@Joel-dp8zq]

These inserts are not meant to make the ride nicer. They are to stop the play that oem ones have for more track orientated set ups. The reason they dont feel nice is there is no play in the bushings anymore for that comfort. Its like adding coilovers and complaining the ride is too hard now. It has its benefits but you will sacrifice comfort

[@FaRKle0079]

I know well what these are "supposed" to do, however they didn't improve rear end communication with the wheels during cornering or stability during that or accelerating/braking at all. There was no net benefit, and a huge loss in ride quality. Also, going to coilovers doesn't mean you have to sacrifice ride quality. That's a common misconception and the reason why most coilover damping tuning isn't very good (because people think they have to be "stiff" to be sporty/better).

[@Joel-dp8zq]

@@FaRKle0079 i mean each to their own I guess. I couldn't tell what the difference they made until the car was tracked. Only on the track did I realise how sloppy the rear end was around corners. What you really want is solid bushings however that will take out all of the comfort. I only noticed the difference under heavy steering on track. Nice informative vid tho good work

[@liquidsk8s]

@@Joel-dp8zq honestly I think this has more to do with the lack of his driving skill than anything else. There’s a reason BMW switched the M cars to solid subframe bushings. There’s no added NVH or harshness, and huge gains to performance for those that know how to use it.

​@@liquidsk8sThere must be some increase in NVH (noise, vibration, harshness by the way). Otherwise, why would there be rubber bushings there to start with?

[@liquidsk8s]

Because that was the prevailing assumption at the time. Testing showed otherwise and BMW switched all the M models to solid bushings.

[@PHFilms3]

I did these inserts in my e92 and noticed a improvement of roughly 25%. I also did M control arms all around which helped even more. I now want to ditch the inserts for Solid subframe bushings. They do not add any NVH this is a myth. It is the the trans and diff bushings that cause more nvh. The e92 M3 crt or whatever its called came with solid SB. Also the f80 m3/m4 now use solid SB

[@dare2scheme904]

Problem is, the OE bushing deflection is connected to rear subframe cracks on these cars. The lower subframe slams into the upper as the bushings wear out. People say these PE inserts (or the complete PE bushing kits) protect against the damage of metal to metal collision and further better distribute the stresses of the subframe as the OE bushings each only have the 2 feeble rubber ears as you see in your video. The inserts have depressions molded into them where the 2 OE rubber bushing ears fit into them.

[@cammgt3rs370]

When ever I installed a urethane bushings they always throw off the suspension frequency and makes the car bouncy is heck. I put the 034 Motorsports ones in my B8 A4 and loved them. The rear became more planted and sure footed. I just bought the 034 ones for my F30.

[@FaRKle0079]

Let me know how the 034 solid inserts work out for your F30!

[@101TheKMan]

What did you think of the 034 inserts? Considering some myself

[@cammgt3rs370]

Well I installed them and man, what a difference. Same result as when I installed them on my Audi A4. Definitely do them on your F30. The rear is tight is heck now.

[@101TheKMan]

@@cammgt3rs370 How's the NVH post install?

[@cammgt3rs370]

@@101TheKMan None at all. Just track car feel and improved response.

[@thetoughcookie3665]

Nice honest review :)

[@redfield8758]

Hi mate ! I also had these inserts on my F36 440ix. Same conclusion as you, they are useless ! I bought Superpro complete rear subframe bushings, will install them with my set of other modifications once I return to the shop. Take care !

[@FaRKle0079]

Thanks for sharing your experience! Let me know how you like the new subframe bushings!

[@AW.SO.M3]

I have done inserts on a e92 335i and had great results. I would say the amount of NHV added is comparable to the M3 tension arms I did previously. Now planning on doing it on our wagon. I'm curious what tires were you running during the test.

[@devaplan]

You must use special rubber grease not normal multipupose grease which will attack the rubber.

Lucky for him, he used silicone based lubricant as could be seen on the video.

[@littleroller]

That freeway looks insanely bad. Must be in CA - lol. Thanks for the honest review!

[@FaRKle0079]

For better or worse, the poor road quality makes it an excellent test route, haha.

[@gustavocobra77]

polyurethane is not for ride quality is for performance under stress. i noticed it wasnt for you at first sight

[@jhill92]

Interesting. I used your diy tutorial when I did my sway bar (btw in that video you installed the hr swaybar but in this one it seems you have the kc design installed?) and ince I had the subframe already lowered, I also switched the bushings to aluminum ones from millway. I think it's the best thing you could do to the rear end of an f30. You get a much bitter feel for the car and I actually like the stiffness it adds.

[@FaRKle0079]

Good eye! The H&R bar install was done on a friend's car. Maybe there's something to just going solid and not a half-way insert method, but I really didn't feel any benefit from these Powerflex inserts.

[@jamesyoung2359]

I have a 135i and went with the 034 Motorsport aluminum set. Amazing. I'd say as good as the M3 bushing set. Did you try them out around corners and when applying power?

[@FaRKle0079]

I tried these in plenty of spirited driving as well as DDing. They weren't really better at anything. I hear solid bushings are better, but I'm not interested in those.

[@Son_of_a_Gun762]

Did you get an alignment after installing the inserts? I'm pretty sure your alignment would be off if you didn't.

[@trapgodnah9022]

I want to get more stability in the rear when moving at high speeds, what all would i need besides rear subframe bushings?

[@FaRKle0079]

You probably want dampers with higher damping than subframe bushings.

[@trapgodnah9022]

@@FaRKle0079 dampers like on coilovers?

[@FaRKle0079]

@@trapgodnah9022 You can just get standalone dampers too, like Koni Yellow/Red, or Bilstein B4/B6/B8.

[@radianm6]

Do you recommend?

[@stephenpato5524]

Review of this mod is to be done at the performance limit.....

[@zoebalbaert2136]

They say it mess up the riders feeling completely

[@FaRKle0079]

I agree!

[@vollcare4076]

@@FaRKle0079 cannot agree on F20

[@paullasky6865]

Bright yellow so yhe insurance company can definitely see it 🙉

[@FaRKle0079]

Not yellow anymore after a bunch of dirt/gravel road driving 😁

[@trapgodnah9022]

So you dont need to drop subframe to do bushings?

[@FaRKle0079]

You do need to drop the subframe.

[@RR-nz2ve]

Do you have any problems whit DEF systems? Some people saying lot of problems whit diesel motor

[@FaRKle0079]

No issues with any of the emissions systems here. I have 62k mi currently.

[@RR-nz2ve]

@@FaRKle0079 thank you

[@yourdadsgarage253]

Why would you assume, that taking something with soft rubber bushings and making them solid wouldn’t make the car ride like dog shit.

[@EstebanGarcia-nf1sp]

Why skip this mod? Not enough of a difference? Have you seen the diff mounts they offer as well?

[@FaRKle0079]

Skip to 6:13 in the video to see my driving impressions and why I didn't like them. I've seen the diff mounts, but I hear those add a lot of NVH, not interested in that!

[@TheytellToomanylies]

Because sunday. 7500rpm looking out the passenger window at your intended destination and you'd think they were awesome

[@Al3xisAE]

Wow what a shitty road

[@wgreen340]

It won’t make a “difference” you want on a F or “new” car. It wasn’t meant for a replacement and Sunday drive… sorry buddy u rolling on da road. Make a”street” vid.