Characteristics of Narcissistic Suicide | IGOR WEINBERG

[@farmcat3198]

This one hit home. I chose to go back to school to regain my self-esteem.

[@alizaofbrooklyn]

Narcissism (or pathological narcissism) can seem like an internet phenomenon or category or craze, but it's not. And it's not a synonym for "abuser." My comment is in response to viewers who may equate NPD with "abuser" or those who come from a kind of pop culture understanding versus... what is actually the case i.e. there exists decades of literature, research, theory and practice, attempting to understand and treat narcissism (since Freud), psychoanalytically and beyond. Not a clinician here, just a student. The internet can be amazing (like this channel) but can also misguide.

[@rw7975]

I'm diagnosed NPD and this was very refreshing to read; gives hope that there are people - young people - out there who see past the flippancy and have an earnest interest to approach pathological narcissism appropriately. I'm pursuing academics next myself and I hope there are more like you - regards.

[@harleyquinn5774]

Riiiiiiight…my Narcissist mother’s side of my family tree were the S!ave Owners of the Old South. Narcissists who are not abusers? Pull the other one, it has a bell on it. 😂

[@alizaofbrooklyn]

@@rw7975 I’m not young :) but thank you 🙏🏼

[@rw7975]

@@alizaofbrooklyn Just took that from 'student' but the sentiments remain - thank you.

[@ST-yc7uj]

Abusers can be from any cluster or even healthy ppl

[@estelle5686]

Enormous shame activated through collapse of the narcissistic structure. I saw it in a person very close to me on one occasion and my strong feeling was thinking at the time of the completely overwhelming helplessness after a complete collapse could easily be a lethal suicide trigger.

[@viper_fan]

How can I make a Narc collapse? Many have flying monkeys that stabilize their false reality.

[@EvanBroslovsky]

​@viper_fan If you expend your energy trying to harm someone else, it probably will not bode well. I'm not suggesting you let anyone abuse you. Do you really want to invest your time and precious life-force trying to hurt a mentally ill person? NPD is a mental illness. The reason we can be mean and abusive is intimately entwined with our deep self-loathing and incessant dysphoria. Go no-contact with this NPD afflicted individual if you really want peace. Interestingly, this is also probably the most painful experience you can create for the NPD afflicted person you mentioned. So, you'll kill two birds with one stone...with stonewalling. Heh.

[@user-og8gf8xw5h]

@@viper_fan don’t play into their games. Be the bigger person…unless they keep looking for a fight but in that case play their game humbly and smart. Use evidence against them to show their friends, family etc. not black mail per se just their behavior around you or how they text you. That’s something I wish I did when I was being smear campaigned against and I thought by being the person everything would go away but NOPE if they wanna keep looking for a fight make sure you got EVIDENCE to clear your name

[@bigaddo]

This really hits home. I don't want to think that it does, but it does.

[@Cornrowwallace33]

I appreciate all these expert interviews!!

[@_qw3rtyXxYz_]

i have bpd and i still relate to a lot of this, especially feelings of shame and low self-esteem. i don't really understand how a narcissist would experience shame, but for me it's so hard to cope with it and with my depressive symptoms that it does lead me to consider extreme solutions. i also relate to what he said about suicide giving meaning and control to one's life. for me that comes from a place of feeling misunderstood and helpless and sometimes i do think that other people would only understand my pain if i truly were to take my own life because of it. part of why i believe that is because i can't truly express my feelings in front of people other than my therapist. yet at the end of the day i mostly think about suicide as a form of ending my suffering. whenever i feel really strong negative emotions i find some sort of relief in just thinking about dying, it's as if it helps me distract myself from all the shit i'm going through. i guess a key difference between the bpd and narcissistic experience of shame may be that for us with bpd, it comes from within, not from some sort of external criticism. i feel so shameful about some of the things i did during bpd episodes but it's really only because i keep criticizing myself and thinking i should be isolating myself from other to protect them from myself. i imagine the narcissist's experience of shame comes from being publicly called out rather than being a result of looking inward at one's self.

[@kaki58100]

Suicide (rooted in shame) is associated with “Vulnerable” narcissism, not the “Grandiose” version people tend to be most familiar with.

[@edwardscruggs6555]

Highly informative and eloquently expressed. Thank you.

[@aguyinavan6087]

If you don't admit weakness, you're a grandiose narcissist, if you do, you're a covert narcissist. Being raised by a mother who had no father, she made me responsible for all her emotional turmoil. I in turn, did not exist. My emotions did not exist. There was no room for my emotions to exist. As such, I never really have been able to pass from a child to an adult. That damnation has locked me into a perpetual internal tantrum that I have been trying forever to suppress. My father, a man on the autism spectrum who also exhibits very strong symptoms of OCPD, would not even entertain ideas about psychology. Suicide is a fantasy. It is an escape from the perpetual tantrum of a child with no mother or father that lives inside my mind, body and soul. They say there is no sound more anxiety provoking than the wail of an infant. I have listened to that wail for 30+ years now.

[@bigaddo]

I am the covert type. Trying to change and be better but failing.

[@SirenaSpades]

A better way to look at it, is gradiose are extroverts, and coverts are introverts. "Admitting" weakness isn't a skill or power. It's the bragging rights of the covert narcissist to brag about their victimization, cowardice, illnesses, and how everyone is against them. Just as grandiose brags about their cars, money, trophy wife, or job. No difference.

[@herbieshine1312]

Continued thanks for this channel

[@whazzat8015]

Good, articulate, well presented.

[@whatdoyoulivefor735]

I love Dr. Weinberg. He is a big inspiration. As I conduct IPA research on the stigma of NPD I'm inspired by his writing and I think I want to work with people who have NPD someday🙏 My late dad had a PD and he suffered terribly and died earlier than he should have. Psychiatrist said it was BPD but as I study I wonder if he had NPD as well. I have narcissistic traits that I deal with, and it can be really hard. So much compassion for people who have NPD, whether they're aware or not. ❤

[@TheHouseElf]

That idea of the fantasy of suicide "tying everything together" is very real. I have multiple narcissists in my family who expressed desires to commit suicide, but their focus was more of trying to get sympathy and regret from the people that hurt them than just trying to relieve the immediate turmoil--there was a sort of belief that they could get something out of it beyond the grave. Whether their religion/spirituality actually accommodated that fantasy isn't something I will ever know, but the idea that "once I'm gone you'll all wish you could take what you said back" was maybe simultaneously a threat as well as a verbalization of that fantasy. And then, at the same time, I still felt compelled to respond as though there was an immediately risk of suicide. I will also never know if they were seriously contemplating or more in their own fantasy land. Not really my place to find out, either.

[@mariahconklin4150]

I think that all these mental diagnosis don't exist it's pathetic. I am always wanting to die not because I want attention but because the world is so depressing for so many reasons I don't want to get into because the list is so long so if that makes me a narcissist then I guess I am...a pathological narcissist at least i could put a name to it I guess *cue eye roll* but when you have been treated like poop for so long and were groomed by your own cousin that's three years older then you why want to live? I don't see my family for a reason if I did I'd off my cousin. I can't wait until the day I die I really can't wait. I don't want anyone to rescue me I just want to die. Plus if their is a Heaven their are many people I would like to see I should probably right the list right now. But I am so sick and tired of these mental diagnosis. Oh you have BPD, anxiety, major depression, now Bipolar 1...just shut it Psychiatrists you're all getting paid a commission off of me and now that I know that I will help myself out. Guess I'm the smartest person ever because I now know what is going on. Always thought I was stupid nah I was just ignorant. Makes me happy knowing the truth of this crap world.

[@amorfati1990]

That sounds more like the typical borderline dynamic. Of course borderline is also a type of pathological narcissism, as all types from the cluster b, but the difference between the borderline (bpd) "suicidal" template and the classical narcissist (npd) suicide templade is that the narcissist is not really making all these empty threats, he just snappes during an episode of narcisstistic modifcation (a state of vulnerability brought by a life crisis) and then executes his suicide. The suicide rate of people with npd is way higher than the suicide rate of bpd. They (borderliner) talk about it or just want to make it appear as they tried to kill themselves in order to get attention, guilt trip, making other people dependend etc. Simetumes they kill themselves during it, by accident if you will, bc it is all about narcissistic supply for the borderline. Yes, they are depressed, way more depressed than the classical narcissist, but they don't have the guts to kill themselves for the most part, bc the borderline also wants to stay in the victim role, so they are kind of addicted to pain and suffering, beeing seen as weak...the narcissist wants to avoid pain and being seen as weak by others, thats why he kills himself.

[@TheHouseElf]

@amorfati1990 You're right in there being overlap. Especially with one in mind, she clearly has symptoms of both, without talking your ear off. She used her suicidality as a weapon in a "battle of the sickest" when the situation called for it--she could be the smartest, prettiest, wealthiest, one with the best job, whatever. What mattered most to her is that all eyes were on her in a room for whatever reason, even if it meant grossly misrepresenting who she was. If she didn't get what she wanted, she could switch from a more grandiose to a more vulnerable state of mind. She had gone on tirades before about how "she suffered more than anyone else" (I'm the best at being sick). She saw herself as a broken person *whom everyone else owed something* for depriving her of the wealthy, glitzy life and youth she wanted. If she was humbled in any way, she could collapse.

[@Typhoon792]

​@@TheHouseElfIf somebody gets to that point, they're right.

[@slw908]

Its possible a narc who plays victim for sympathy and attention could idealize suicide as a means to regulate their emotions during a painful experience. They are usually immature because they dont self reflect or go within. They live in their ego,

[@user-og8gf8xw5h]

Or maybe you are being too hard on them because most narcs are men and you despise living in a male dominated patriarchal world. You know in a way your attitude contributes to this? Women are given excessive sympathy when it comes to mental health but men are suppose to suck it up and be strong. And you wonder why they turn out the way they do? Oh well, that’s their fault for being men

[@gra_potemkin]

Thank you)

[@benjamininthedarkness]

Unfortunately for narcissists, there is no help out there for them and people will actively (and quite ironically) push them, on purpose and with glee to exit early. It's a funny little twist of fate and I've never seen any other illness or issue for which everyone universally wishes these people death. EVERYONE. I assume that this would lead to suicidal ideations as the world turns their back on these individuals for something they seemingly cannot fully control. I had a doctor tell me they've told their narcissistic patients that suicide is the only cure for their condition and they should NEVER seek relationships. Woman can be incredibly vicious with this label; if the person is not, in fact, a narcissist but something akin to it, or something that shares similar behavioral issues, they will apply this label and down the person goes as everyone has a breaking point when someone (usually an angry 'victim') is spreading rumors about this condition and making all avenues of success and progress impossible for these people. The state of things is this: Narcissistic personality issues is a death sentence. The victims become monsters in the process.

[@siriuslili]

@@benjamininthedarkness that is exactly why I need to get away from my narcissist. I have never wished death on anyone before him, and it took 20 years of his covert and not-so-covert emotional and psychological abuse to get to this point. I HATE what this relationship has brought out in me. It makes me hate myself.

[@GlasPthalocyanine]

I don't think people wish death on the narcissist. They just want the manipulation to be over. When my father died, I couldn't contain the sensation of liberation. I just started laughing hysterically and couldn't stop for 6 months. Of course, with the loss of a parent, the child has no idea how deep they've buried their own personality in order to survive the narcissist. So, that's a lot of feelings coming to the surface at once and giving you a view of the person that you might have been without the narcissistic abuse. Narcissism isn't like other mental heath issues, because it requires the *other* to be part of the stress and chaos. Agreed it's not right to label everyone as a narcissist. But what the narcissist can never understand is that most people without narcisstic traits have a clear and enduring sense of who they are. So when someone comes into your life, and you feel your own personality being distorted by their behaviour, then the psyche launches a defense to preserve its own integrity. That's the tragedy of the narcissist. They don't comprehend that everyone else is a "real" person with rights to their own authentic emotions. I won't say the victim becomes a monster, exactly. I did experience a lot of feelings of delinquency after his passing (in my early 40s).

[@DevoidVoid]

​@@siriuslili you may have something wrong with you and might need to get help. It's simply not normal to wish death on people, I know this now. Please get help before you self destruct 🤷

[@muma6559]

Do not do harm to anybody, period.

[@GlasPthalocyanine]

@@benjamininthedarkness with my BIL, his family didn't wish him death, exactly. They just wanted him out of their lives. And the biggest pressure was from his own child, as soon as she was old enough to realise that she was never going to thrive in a house where Dad was sucking up all the oxygen. My sister wanted the same but was trying to find kinder ways to persuade him to leave. Kids can be brutally honest.

[@InvisibleBorderline]

What about suicidal ideation in the life partners of the narcissist? Narcissistic abuse dismantles you as a person. My ex already has one girlfriend who ended herself, another who almost died due to ODing from drugs he provided and then myself who skirted the edge of not wanting to live after being subjected to his mental manipulation and abuse.

[@huhwah5387]

You can probably find a lot of videos on that my friend. There is probably a lot of support for what you need.

[@InvisibleBorderline]

@@huhwah5387 no. There is not. People who haven’t experienced it cannot imagine how badly it affects another person. I understand more about his disorder now but it doesn’t excuse his behavior. He knows. A grown man doesn’t sit you down at the beginning of a relationship and tell you that he has “abandonment issues” caused by his mothers abuse when he was small. He’s went to see a therapist once. Long enough to get a diagnosis and then leave. It’s a shame. There’s very little help for people like him or the people like me, who became collateral damage.

[@hix9306]

@@InvisibleBorderlineKZbin is full of these videos this is not what the video is about

[@marcosiviero494]

@@InvisibleBorderline i understand you…it’s so damaging that people (even therapists) that never experienced it CANNOT understand. Period. (without blame them for this)

[@covegirl06]

@@marcosiviero494you’re on the wrong video. This video isn’t about how to “heal” from an abusive relationship with a narcissist or about having sympathy for a narcissist who is suicidal. The video is simply intended to provide INSIGHT into the thought process of why some narcissists commit suicide. When we talk about suicide we always assume it’s cause the person was battling depression or mental illness. Revenge suicide is a very taboo topic that most people skirt around. I’m glad this video is bringing it to light. There are a plethora of KZbin channels on “healing” from narcissistic abuse. But The only way to heal from any traumatic experience is to learn to ACCEPT that you cannot control the past or what happened to you in the past, nor can you control what other people say and do. Forgive yourself and Let go of those thoughts and emotions that are keeping you miserable. Let em go. That’s the only way to heal and finally feel at peace. The unfortunate part is, no therapist or any other human being can do that for you.

[@lindatallon9217]

A scenario of the boy who cried wolf......nobody will respond..............

[@julio4349]

But what is the correlation with a victim of a narcissistic abuser

[@Star-dj1kw]

✅ very interesting

[@Gino-i7f]

I know a female overt narcissist i just recently got away from and i tell you it was hell...she always wanted to compete with me she just lost her job and went completely silent...i just wandering if she is thinking about offing her self???

[@SirenaSpades]

overt=grandiose

[@laurajane4806]

I was born into a family with generations of narcs. None of them would ever commit suicide. People who commit suicide in my family are the ones dealing with the insanity of being stuck in a narc family.

[@gypsylee73]

I can't watch this. My daughter is 700km away, alienated from me and isolated with a baby, and controlled by her narcissistic father. There really is nothing I can do.

[@plantman4444]

@@gypsylee73then go away lol. You’re not being forced to watch. Watch that which confirms everything you already believe and justify your hatred like most people do regarding NPD.

[@Alsatiagent]

@@plantman4444 gypsylee73 expressed no hatred. You, however, reveal more than you intend.

[@plantman4444]

@@Alsatiagent it’s evident. It’s not the video to watch if you’re wanting to hate on people with NPD. I don’t really care what I seem to reveal. I’m stating clearly now, I’m sick of whiny people moaning about those they’ve diagnosed as NPD because of some bad experience. And they use it as nothing more than a tool to hate. It’s a personality disorder. It comes from trauma. Take the whining bullshit somewhere else.

[@zeddeka]

If it's intergenerational then it's possible that other things are in play too. My sister's kids just got diagnosed as having ADHD. Their behaviour exactly like hers when she was younger. Thinking about it made me realise it probably went through a lot of my dad's family. Explains a lot of the behaviour of people in the family, including cousins and those in earlier generations.

[@user-og8gf8xw5h]

I think no person deserves to die. I am a suicidal male myself and have some narcissistic traits growing up in a narcissistic household. Women are given so much empathy and compassion for their mental health but it is so stigmatized against males. These comments have me very concerned about my well being because maybe I deserve it. “Boy who cried wolf!” “Poor Narc! Ur only way to handle things is to take the easy way out” these comments are so discouraging I understand you victims are hurt but to look down on men for their mental health problems is concerning. What if they aren’t even a “narcissist” psychology and the over usage of the word narcissist has gotten out of control I believe some people are going over board misinterpreting the whole concept because all of us humans are narcissists to a degree we just have to handle how much of that we manifest into our behavior and personalities

[@kaki58100]

Suicide is associated with “Vulnerable” narcissism, not the “Grandiose” version people tend to be most familiar with and it is rooted in interpersonal shame….shame linked to the trauma experienced as children through a fog of criticism and punishment that was so severe that it left the child feeling totally worthless and powerless.

[@Ceibo-Ceiba]

Somehow even therapists show their fun of us, and it is justified for narcissists are what is wrong with society now

[@LOVEisTHEultimateLAW]

🎯

[@Asti.sayAhstee]

Narcs love empathetic guys like this.

[@kellyyork3898]

My thoughts exactly.

[@jaimebanks8377]

Most people like empathetic individuals. I perceive your implication to be people who exhibit pathologically narcissistic traits are undeserving of empathy, that we will take advantage of such an empathetic individual. Not all people with NPD are monstrous. Many of us are capable of compassion and kindness. We are created by abuse. And many of us are capable of positive change.

[@Asti.sayAhstee]

@@jaimebanks8377 I realize there’s a spectrum. I’ve witnessed narcissists displaying what I thought to be genuine empathy. However, their empathy was limited to circumstances similar to what they themselves had experienced. If they couldn’t relate, they felt no empathy. I’ve also read the comments of self aware narcissists who said they were earnestly working on modifying their behavior because they didn’t want to hurt others. One would need the capacity to be compassionate over all to have that goal. I could have empathy and give compassion to and engage with a narcissist working on self improvement IF s/he were being transparent and taking responsibility for misconduct. It’s not about whether or not it’s deserved. It’s about earning it. That said, I’d be extremely cautious with such a person. I highly doubt their ability for compassion and kindness eliminates the negative behaviors but, I hope, should temper them. My disdain was directed at the therapist, not the narcissist. I’m very aware that narcissists high on the spectrum are very skilled at presenting themselves to be someone they are not. Had his discussion been balanced with the dynamics of narcissistic abuse and how he and his clients address that aspect then I would have had some confidence in him. But he didn’t. For me, he came across as a bleeding heart who doesn’t fully appreciate the disorder. Or perhaps worse, has had the wool pulled over his eyes too many times.

[@asumanklncer2440]

@@jaimebanks8377 hello. I really wonder about that. are you narcisist and you feel compassion and kindness? how does it feel? do you also love some people? and what does it feel like? thank you!

[@robinantonio8870]

​@@jaimebanks8377then you are not NPD.

[@jenmorricone4014]

Rebbys comment at 9:40 will result in someone's suicide who is being bullied. She needs to get some awareness.

[@Camposdarko]

I had re watch that part a few times I couldn’t believe what I was hearing, she literally said it’s not wrong for them killing themselves , I kept re-watching because I couldn’t believe that’s what she meant, but seems to be straightforward . that’s what she meant. That them committing suicide isn’t wrong

[@funkymunky]

Eeeegorrrr!

[@kellyyork3898]

The mind and emotions of a child…”You’ll be sorry you washed my mouth out with soap when I go blind from soap poisoning.” --Ralphie. (paraphrased from “A Christmas Story.” ; )

[@Leah-i1e]

It's their Grand Exit and Final Departure. I'm surprised they don't alert the media.

[@JodieKitchen-v9o]

My narcissist ended his life in April he stopped taking his insulin and passed from Ketosis . He kept video logs of the days leading up to his death and he publicly blamed me on Facebook.

[@lancewalker2595]

ALL suicide is intrinsically narcissistic.

[@JohnnyMason-p7u]

False..no hope you have no one at all

[@malina3310]

poor narcissists 😥

[@user-og8gf8xw5h]

I don’t get it. What’s the difference between narcissist being suicidal vs a non narcissist being suicidal? Does a narcissist being suicidal mean that they deserve it for all the shitty things they’ve done?

[@terenzo50]

Too much to hope for. Trump won't commit suicide.

[@hawthornecindy94]

What a tacky comment, says a lot about you

[@justavideodiary]

WHO CARES ABOUT THE NARCISSISTS stop focusing on the abusers and start working on victims of abuse.

[@gp3613]

How are victims of abuse going to be helped unless NPD is better understood and possible treatments developed?

[@thistrazioni5330]

You clearly have a distorted view on both the disorder itself and its ethiopathogenesis ,furthermore there is plenty of literature and clinical theory available for the threating of abused patients. While on the other hand effective treatment for narcissist personality disorder is just beginning to develop,spreading knowledge will lead to a better understanding for everyone of the disease. Plus i would like to remind you that the spectrum of the NPD is pretty wide,not every narcissist is an abuser just like not every Antisocial personality disorder is a murderer or a criminal, generalizing such a disease creates stigma and ignorance around it,which is detrimental for everyone

[@whazzat8015]

AW , Come , on. javd is just trolling. Besides, narcissists and BPD all feel ,and may be, victims of abuse from those with the same disorder, often in their families or from whatever genetics or space rays responsible from their disorder. Suicidal ideation and risk are frequent, and as Weinberg says, just need a sufficient trigger. Look at the wave of suicides in Germany as they lost the war, or the Japanese "harikiri"

[@opensourceanglers8291]

If you've been on the receiving end of mistreatment at the hands of a narcissist I'm sincerely sorry for what you've had to endure. With that in mind I have 2 points I'd like to make here: 1st, narcissists are very often victims of abuse themselves. It's a common cause of NPD. I'm not excusing their behavior but they are also deserving of concern & understanding. 2nd, this is a video about suicide and your comment is very harsh and not helpful to either a suicidal narcissist or those he's abused...

[@mariahconklin4150]

How about try helping everyone instead of just putting all people in a box? But then again I understand my brother is narcissistic and he tried to drown me when I was younger. Idk it's tough...I'm like right in the middle. Also my brother put a gun to his head and tried to murder himself that's when my parents took him to the hospital. My parents aren't that bad but emotionally they are like 10 year old's and I'm just not that way.

[@JessCyph]

One of the self-aware pwNPD that I follow on youtube has shared publicly that he once attempted suicide as a means to hurt and “show” those who hurt him how badly they hurt him. He wanted to get even in that way… which I can actually understand. My pwNPD and I have had a few breakups, and it always occurs to me that maybe he doesn’t know how badly his behavior hurts the people he claims (or once claimed) to love. Suicide would “show him” (or one would like to think so…), but I wouldn’t never go through with it.

[@rw7975]

If you're talking about 'mental healness' I'm pretty sure that guy is a fraud. Just endorses and parrots 'muh narc' talking points... I don't think he's even diagnosed and he doesn't have any understanding of the actual disorder.

[@JessCyph]

@@rw7975 Actually, I wasn’t referring to mental healness, but I have had similar feelings about his channel. He isn’t catering to anyone but “abuse victims.” He certainly doesn’t discuss what drives npd or its behaviors. The same is true with “Raw Motivations.”

[@amatrix6]

what are some good sources of people with the actual diagnosis?

[@JessCyph]

@@amatrix6 Jacob at “The Nameless Narcissist” and Sara at “Cluster B Milkshake” are two good ones.

[@Typhoon792]

What does it mean "they feel like it's the only way"? If that's the way they truly feel, then that is actually true for the individual, and whatever brought them there is what needs to be looked at, not them. The social conditions, despite whatever possible surface level appearances, would have to have been terrible enough (beyond imagination) to get someone to that point. There's no such thing as "self-"esteem. There's personal esteem that's maintained through whatever recognition by another of the value in, primarily, one's throughout and the balance/dynamic that's inherent to it. Suicidality is a result of this sort is a result of the core imploding and a completely collapse of self-identity and any authentic psychological needs as a result. I would argue that whoever carelessly brought them to that condition should be held responsible because it could only have been out of serious betrayal (of trust in every given form) that someone could be brought to this. Under the present societal conditions, the least pathological person (and the strength it would take for that) is the same person who, ironically, can most easily be severely traumatized, going from the least to the most pathological pre/post whatever trauma. It's way too easy to happen if you stand against the grain of the psychopathic landscape we inhabit (modern day society).

[@chaoticmind-z]

very well said, I applaud your empathy for seeing things clearly.