The Narcissism Stereotype vs Reality | IGOR WEINBERG

[@Wetryourbesteachday]

I am a 35 year old woman that is self-aware and accepting of my NPD diagnosis. I have plenty of wreckage in my past but each failure brought me closer to my truth until one day the most important person in my life gave me a dose of my own medicine and everything inside shattered. I'm 18 months into rebuilding myself. It was devastating. And now I live fully self aware and in a lot of emotional pain like never before. But this depressive state has transformed me. I'm glad to see the word getting out that there is some hope for us.

[@cesar56318]

Thank you

[@lorenzrosenthal119]

"But this depressive state has transformed me." It seems to me that you are on the right track. Keep rollin' baby!

[@paulmryglod4802]

You are getting there!

[@AgathorARPG]

I’ve just entered into this depressive state, I’ve ruined so many things I had in my life. I just now became self-aware that I’m a narcissist and I disgust myself. Can’t even find dedicated therapy in Europe, everything is to treat the people I’ve hurt. Most books are about the victims or shaming the narcissist but I want to get help so I don’t destroy any more lives. Anyone can help?

[@Arete-1010]

@@AgathorARPGthe Reddit sub of r/NPD would be a good place to start. Goodluck for your recovery.

[@twillsJKZ]

Became self aware almost 1 year ago and have to say it’s been the toughest year of my life. Felt like my whole world collapsed. Everything I thought to be true was partly based in delusion, which to me, was completely real. I feel like I am slowly coming out other end and pray for more healing and acceptance in myself. Made me cry listening to someone talk about narcissism in a non judgmental way and I thank god there are people like him out there pushing to understand and treat the disorder. I think making the disorder less stigmatising will help both parties, the people who have been hurt by narcissists, and the narcissists themselves. Thanks for the upload 🙏

[@swhite802]

What can make someone become self aware?

[@twillsJKZ]

@@swhite802 For me it was just self reflection, I did a lot of it anyway, and then being honest with yourself and seeing certain patterns in my life

[@CB19087]

You will also like 'Heal NPD' channel. He's great, explains it really well and compassionately. Can I ask, have you been having therapy? If so, what type?

[@incanthatus8182]

We feel like if one can or cannot accept the news about struggling with narcissism also depends a lot on how it's framed. The first time we were told that we had some strong narcissistic traits was years ago in mental hospital and it very much sounded like an accusation. So we felt like we couldn't really engage with that idea and had to deny it. When our current therapist started talking to us about our struggles with narcissism, she mentioned that she had worked with quite a few narcissistic clients already and that a lot of them were highly motivated and capable. She spoke of them with respect and that really sweetened the deal for us 😅

[@derekpmoore]

Do you speak about yourself in the plural because you think you’re a system?

[@z32luvr]

Who’s us?

[@TranscendingTrauma]

well, I definitely think no human should be demonized and we absolutely have a long way to go in understanding and excepting where the behaviors are birthed from. The sad thing I see is most people that end up with someone with NPD have high empathy and a strong ability to forgive. And or a family history of NPD, a.k.a. being raised by someone with it, and then choosing a partner with it. The problem with deeply empathizing well in relationship is the self sacrifice. I grew up in a narcissistic family and was married to a narcissist for 14 years. my biggest regret is the suffering my children still carry. A lot of people will use videos like this as an excuse to stay in their abusive connections. And well, I still have empathy for my ex-husband and do not demonize him. I sure am not happy with the destruction he caused. It can be very dangerous for people that are using denial and magical thinking, and now have a doctor justifying their strong desire to stay in a connection where they are suffering themselves. Use this video and these words to have deeper empathy and understanding of the disorder, not as an excuse to stay where you are being mistreated.

[@hajarhematian6970]

Just this. I totally agree with you. I personally think that only people who have experienced a toxic relationship with someone with NPD will fully understand the dynamic in such relationships. And it is not that we don’t acknowledge the suffering of someone with NPD, we only say that suffering is not an excuse for abusing other people. And you simply can’t talk about narcissism without talking about the huge impact of the unhealty behaviors on the person self AND his environment.

[@TranscendingTrauma]

@@hajarhematian6970 exactly! And are you Armenian? Lol I am the last name sounds Armenian.

[@hajarhematian6970]

@@TranscendingTrauma hehe I’m Iranian :) We’re neighbours ;)

[@TranscendingTrauma]

@@hajarhematian6970 lol howdy neighbor

[@loverainthunder]

Your point is what I wanted to say. My empathy for the suffering of my family, most having NPD, ASPD, and Borderline behaviors, is never-ending. I had to use logic and discipline to remove myself, and it hurt. It still hurts. Whenever I come across something that I believe would make their lives easier, or that they would like, I feel sad that I don't have those relationships and cannot give to them. If what I say about NPD seems like I'm demonizing, its because I'm taking a hard look at the behaviors, and the terrible results from those behaviors. The concept that NPD needs more compassion from others is wrong. They need limits, and maybe a doctor who can help them develop in ways they have not. But its the same as if there is a fire, you aren't going to feel sorry for it, you are going to do what you need to do in order to keep it from burning down your house. Maybe the narcissist needs to learn self compassion, and therefore compassion for others. But they don't need compassion from those who are damaged by their behavior. They need limits imposed so they cannot do anymore damage, and because as for as I've experienced, they don't have natural limits. They just act and react to protect their false image, by any means necessary. I would actually like to hear more about people with NPD healing. But even with that, I'm not allowing any more harm into my life.

[@Beth_Agnes]

My MIL is a high functioning narcissist. She has tantrums, anger outbursts, speaks very nasty to people whom does do what she wants us to do and brags constantly how beautiful and young people tell her all the time at age 80. She is no longer aloud to be among our family because of it. It’s hard on my husband who just accepts her behavior as “it’s my mother” attitude. So now I am the villain who cannot allow such behavior within my family unit. It’s that bad

[@Istilllove]

❤

[@estelle5686]

I'm inclined to agree generally with the idea of educating about this condition as in any other mental health condition. The problem is that many people who suffer from these types of disorders do not feel distress and do not see a reason to change or seek treatment. When someone has a depressive or mood disorder, a psychotic or thinking disorder, distress is frequently felt. Substance abuse disorders, the distress is frequently felt. It's a person who feels there is something wrong with their way of functioning, thinking or acting or have been told and confronted about these things and seek help. Personality pathology is very different in that one of the more troubling aspects is the lack of awareness of any distress and then saying with all sincerity, there's nothing wrong with me at all, it must be, fill in the blank. The more vulnerable presentation is much more convincing to others with the low self-esteem, hard luck stories of blaming others and always having an answer/excuse for their really poor, damaging behavior towards others, for example. We know that child molesters often have been molested. We know violent people often have been victims of violence. We know substance abuse can cause accidents that kill people and frequently has a generational or heritable component. This is understood, however, there is accountability for consequences. People go to jail. People lose things. They may be seeking help, but there still remains the factor of accountability. I have experienced first hand and seen in cases outside my personal relationship experience much understanding of personality pathology behavior, NPD, BPD but no accountability. That is not reality for anyone who truly wants help, sees the reason and becomes aware of their own distress and the damaging consequences to others. The accountability piece has to be present in a realistic way for both the person with the disorder as well as those who have been affected. We can't in the name of being positive and kind and understanding be dishonest, inauthentic or revisionist of actual events. There must be a balance of information, understanding and accountability expected in order to make real progress in identifying, treating and being realistic of actually how many years of consistent therapeutic intervention is necessary to change these deeply entrenched issues.

[@Story_player]

Well said

[@deboraquinaud6026]

Very well pointed

[@catherined6399]

Thank you for a fresh take on narcissism. So much demonizing here on youtube. I get people are deeply hurt, but it get intertwined with metnal health and mental disagnosis.

[@magnustorque5528]

The "demonizing" is inherent in the dynamic that naturally exists when one person creates so much devastation in another persons life. We don't demonize a terminally ill cancer patient because that person is not damaging other peoples lives. yes, the narcissist is disordered and needs help to be liberated from his or her condition. A psychopath is also disordered, but often times destroying lives. Until these people are successfully treated it simply becomes all about their behavior. The "poor little narcissist" approach doesn't mitigate or excuse the behavior and the subsequent aftermath of the behavior in the lives of others. As a clinician or professional doctor (the guest), the perspective centers on attempting to liberate the narcissist from their affliction in much the same way that a defense lawyer will go to bat for a client that is charged with egregious crimes such as murder or rape, etc. They both become advocates for the person no matter what kinds of crimes or destruction the person has inflicted on others.

[@michelle1813]

Being hurt is also not an excuse to stereotype and label off an entire medical population because these victims assume they are with someone with NPD. They could just be an asshole.

[@patriciaalves566]

I agree with your opinion about the violent and negative"treatment" society towards the narcissist disorder. I follow some " healing from narcissist " groups because of my ex and i am afraid about some comments i read. It is really scary. And sometimes i think maybe they read their ex as narcissist but I wonder if are they the real mental not healthily? Thanks for this video so much ❤

[@astonesthrow]

Just remember - however a narcissist has made you feel is exactly how they feel toward themselves. Master projectors.

[@2adamast]

Or not! For example, their feeling towards themselves often qualifies as emptiness

[@ange7422]

Finally, someone saying exactly this. I wish this was the kind of video that would come up first when anyone googles narcissist. The world is saturated with such false information.

[@andreearatoi2409]

As someone who has been following this channel for some time now ( and has been grateful for the responsible and honest take on the difficulties of BPD) I find this one video especially touching. Maybe there is still less knowledge about treating NPD, but demonizing patients and calling them untreatable is repeating the same mistake made with BPD sufferers just a while ago. I am taking about clinicians and therapists mainly as I realise that is hard for people who have been hurt by some behaviors of patients with NPD to have compassion for them. Thanks for (all) the content and work!

[@cht2162]

My spouse of 34 years is now totally incapacitated by her pathological narcissism. Her disease has progressed over all these years and she has totally lost a sense of "reality" other than her own. I am her only friend at this point and I do not want her to die alone.

[@hajarhematian6970]

I personally think that most people who have been deeply hurt by someone with NPD still have compassion. On the internet, most of the time you read about what people have experienced during a relationship with someone with NPD ( the gaslighting, lying, disloyalty and so much more unhealthy and painful behaviors) those things are just facts (it’s not meant to demonise them). There are plenty of people who have been in such unhealty relationschips for decades, pure because they loved the person with NPD ( if we are talking about romantic relationships )and wanted the best for them. People leave a relationship with someone with NPD out of selfprotection not out of hate.

[@hajarhematian6970]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye Ofcourse it’s about understanding the whole picture; maybe you haven’t encountered the channels who actually very clearly talk about why people with NPD display such (self-)destructive behaviors. It’s out of self-protection, to feel safe, to cope and survive. But unfortunately, like you know, these behaviors have a negative outcome in the long term. They are just band-aids on a deep wound.

[@hajarhematian6970]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye We use labels for a better understanding and communication not for stigmatising or demonising but I understand it can feel that way! Narcissism is a personality style, like so many other personality styles, unfortunately one that causes internal and external suffering.

[@hajarhematian6970]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye lol no.

[@rainymondays7541]

Finally somebody said it - all most all books, KZbin videos (yep, Dr Ramani & co), articles are extremely negative and causing harm to both people suffering from higher levels/dimensions of Narcissism (don't forget we all have some narcissistic traits) and people undergone some form of abuse.

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

Yes, not only negative but spreading miscontent. A lot of it. And don't help victims either.

[@kanani717]

Nice gaslight.

[@BlackCoffeeee]

​@@kanani717Ironically, people like Dr Ramani are gaslighting people. She's essentially making big coin from all the gullible people who believe her misinformation. It's funny, her behaviour pings so many narcissist flags yet she's the sane voice of reason. She and others like her, have questionable motivations.

[@BrendaGarcia-ty2ml]

So excited for this one! So many self aware narcissists on the internet nowadays which disproves the misconception that they aren’t self aware.

[@danettem614]

The self-aware narcissists are very interesting, and I feel, give me a sense of hope that humanity can see itself. I love this channel. This channel saved my life! Can't wait for this one either, and I am glad she's back and making new content.

[@theotormon]

The idea that narcissists are beyond help has always been lazy imo. It isn't enough to condemn people, you also have to give them a clear understanding of what healthy relationships look like.

[@d.nakamura9579]

@@theotormon it’s not that they’re beyond help. It’s that they don’t want help, or even see the need for it. Until that happens, they’re still toxic narcissists.

[@rosemontoya3656]

@@d.nakamura9579 Exactly

[@bobbarker1798]

Maybe "self aware" but still mean!

[@MissChristine-wo6vp]

God bless this doctor for being willing to explore the internal conditions experienced by the narcissist - true compassion here. Narcs can be easy to hate but they are still a suffering soul - even if they don't appear that way.

[@danettem614]

Awesome interview!! I had fallen into the "emotional trap" in terms of going along with the stigma due to my hurt feelings & broken 💔 heart I had from my personal experiences with narcissistic partners. It's so easy when we are hurt, to condemn. So now, when I see content from clinicians who have had personal experiences with people with NPD, I account for their blindness to their own bias & throw a filter on it. I just take the facts. The problem is, most people won't see or understand that the people putting out the "How to Kill a Narcissist" content are in a state of grieving or blind to their own driving emotions. It really isn't until we see our own blindness that we can be a selective investigator of the truth. We have to understand ourselves more. Every human is on their own timeline, and some are casualties. Casualties of their own blindness. We're moving along here. The word will get out. We all can awaken to the full picture of humanity and how narcissism has always been a part of human existence. We can grow to understand one another. ♥️

[@alexbalistreya]

Thank you! So important to provide new resources for this personality disorder. Thanks Rebbie and Dr. Weinberg

[@BorderlinerNotes]

Fyi.... and Pascal - the editor and many other hats-supreme... -R

[@freeperson5444]

I think we are seeing emerging insight into the true deeper causes of pathological narcissism . Yes it is traumatising and damaging to victims but the sufferers of NPD themselves unaware of their disorder are damaging themselves and those around them also society at large . Any further research and patient compassionate therapists willing to help treat them have my full support and respect. We need to heal the traumatised people with narcissism to break the cycle of trauma being passed down and prevent any future victims . 👏👏👏

[@nathanventry4693]

The sad thing is that there are so many victims that are still suffering, but I do understand your point.

[@KarmasAbutch]

Wah wah wah those Poor “traumatized people with Narcissism” -WE NEED TO HEAL THEM 🙄

[@ingver5035]

@@KarmasAbutchwell yes, healing them can come from a place of empathy but also just as distinguishing a fire. imagine we would stop paying attention to the fire by focusing on the victims? while the fire continues creating victims.. how shortsighted would that be

[@NaNa-re3wc]

Unless someone is a trained professional with EXTREMELY firm and healthy boundaries, I would not suggest empathizing with someone with NPD or even just strong narcissistic traits from anywhere but very afar. Yes they need help, but don’t naively assume love and compassion are the treatment/cure or that those can even change them at all.

[@michelle1813]

The fact most of the commenters here are negatively talking about narcissists as though narcissist = abuser is insane. Y’all are drinking the look aid and buying into the stigma and spreading it too. The REAL truth is that NPD is a condition that affects someone’s emotions, and emotional regulation, and it does not automatically equate to abuse. We don’t say people with ADHD are automatically dumb or bad students. Are people that simple minded?

[@k.s783]

This often happens when there’s no or very little acknowledgment of the fact that a narcissists behavior causes a lot of suffering for other people, especially to family and partners etc. The anger often comes from already feeling neglected and invalidated by the narcissist and having a therapist or other people empathize with someone who regularly hurts others naturally creates a feeling of resentment, frustration and anger. The answer might be to acknowledge the suffering narcissists cause at the same time as you can also have compassion for the narcissist’s struggles. And no, people with ADHD aren’t slow or dumb. Intelligence tests show they often score well above average. The narrative you propose started with autism and ADHD being blurred in the public debate. Autism has a much greater chance of cognitive impairment than ADHD. People with autism can have a diagnosis of ADHD but most people with ADHD don’t have autism.

[@ctlo4403]

Precisely the problem is they end up sucking up all the sympathy even after abusing everyone as in here in the comments section. Poor them not being put in jail inducing suicide.

[@healcptsd6467]

I'm diagnosed with ADHD and Bipolar Disorder. Self diagnosed with early developmental/attachment trauma (I was a cry baby in the early sixties, anxiety problems all my life) Narcissism has definitely been one of my coping strategies, both to "comfort" myself when I have felt rejected/outside as well as when I have been hypomanic king/grandiose. It's almost 2 years since my last hypomania. I really don't want to go there anymore. I still "touch" grandiosity but I seek connection and "physical safety" with people. Still I struggle with self hate and isolation. Problems with self worth/confidence? Yeah but I'd say the core issue is problems with self- and co regulation.

[@DevoidVoid]

Thanks so much with this comment. This sounds exactly like me... 1:1, you've given me a lot of hope for atleast not being in so much strife and animosity all the time. I appreciate this comment so much ❤

[@edinbrodlic4564]

You said you were a crybaby, wonder what your mom was like in your infancy?

[@healcptsd6467]

@@edinbrodlic4564 she was what Sam Vaknin calls a Dead Mother, completely unable to coregulate. This is according to her own words.

[@healcptsd6467]

I moved to Africa about 1½ year ago. By far the bravest, most radical and wisest thing I've ever done. Here I have no problems with coregulation. 🤗 I moved here because I realized I needed more friendly human Interaction and what I found was beyond anything I could ever imagine. My level of anxiety and unrest is so low now that I almost think something is seriously wrong 😂 I now longer "qualify" for any of my diagnoses

[@edinbrodlic4564]

@@healcptsd6467 was she cold and unavailable? Or couldnt handle your feelings?

[@spindrifter7519]

May I suggest that Dr Igor writes a book that includes how to have a mutually beneficial relationship with someone with NPD. Most of the existing books are indeed negative, destructively so, but there is a real need for a book that helps couples struggling with something that affects them both.

[@Wetryourbesteachday]

I've been with my wife, who has BPD, for over 16 years. Since I was 19. I have NPD. Thru the ups and downs of it all, we have never even broken up. And now all these years later, we are able to see ourselves and heal our wounds and be there for one another, in a true bond, just like I'd always dreamed for. There are ways to make things work out better, even if the narcissistic person in your life is unwilling. And if the universe has its say and you're meant to be together, y'all will make it.

[@bobbarker1798]

There is no way to have a non-destructive relationship with a narcissist! This man is full of BS!!!

[@Wetryourbesteachday]

@@bobbarker1798 there can be strife in any relationship. People get hurt, people grow and they change, in regular relationships. I'm a narcissist and I don't raise hell around me. I COULD. but I don't. And other narcissists can do the same.

[@hajarhematian6970]

@@Wetryourbesteachday A relationship only works if BOTH people want to do the hard work, so it’s BS to say that things can work out even if the person with NPD is unwilling to work on himself. That’s taking zero accountability.

[@kanani717]

Those of us that have survived and thrived after your abuse are ten steps ahead of your gaslighting. We know your trash.

[@lukecarey613]

So humbling.

[@CB19087]

Very interesting. I think I have a narcissistic injury. I definitely find it difficult to regulate my self-esteem. Generally, I'm fine and you wouldn't know. I'm empathetic and care very much about people, I never want anyone to feel as invisible as I do. I can be very thoughtful and conscientious most of the time. However, if I encounter people who throw my self-esteem into turmoil, someone who doesn't like me or someone who ignores me, doesn't consider me, the narcissism comes out. I've had 15yrs of therapy for trauma etc. I was obsessed with narcissism for a while. I spot narcissists everywhere. The old saying goes " it takes one to know one". I could never understand why other people had no idea what I was talking about when I pointed out someone's behaviour as manipulative. I feel like my true self mostly, until I have to engage with others 😢

[@James_Sins89]

Thank you for your contructive aproach

[@k.s783]

The issue is that therapists who humanize and show compassion for narcissists often seem to forget to acknowledge the suffering it causes in others. The tone in social media etc would probably be different if the conversation was more nuanced and validated both the suffering in the narcissist and the people they victimize.

[@MichaelLee-em4le]

9:01 “With other individuals it may be more difficult to use the label…” I have read comments on other videos where individuals only learn about a diagnosis/label when it is revealed by some other third party via a medical record.

[@rainymondays7541]

"The Handbook of Narcissism and Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Theoretical Approaches, Empirical Findings, and Treatments" This is probably one of the few books available to the wide public which covers the topic in more academic and non-negative way.

[@BarnabyBarry]

Yes and narcissism is a spectrum just like autism and ADHD! We tend to exaggerate since this is such a hot topic (i.e my dad,mom brother sister,ex wife and boss has it etc.)-it is also part of current culture (we all get a trophy-everybody is beautiful-you look so young-we exaggerate our accomplishments and self worth-humble brag all the time)

[@wolfgang2090]

Is everything a spectrum?

[@Cosmogirl014]

Thankful for this doctor and the content, I love this channel! Thank you 🌷

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

This video is about helping people with NPD which shouldn't be a matter of debate but great news for everybody.

[@michelle1813]

Imagine if you had NPD and have felt entirely alone your whole life, already struggling with empathy, low debilitated self esteem and a trauma survivor and you keep getting told by everyone in society that you’re this/that/bad/easy to hate…of course that’s going to make someone (especially someone with less empathy) to hate others and devalue them. As a society we don’t necessarily make it easy for ppl with PD’s to love society either. And that’s one way I think it forms, because society creates these disorders among normal people.

[@KonjikiKonjiki]

Becoming aware of the issues with poor emotional regulation and self esteem resulting from living with a Cluster B PD has helped me develop and maintain the insight to recover and heal.. I'm sure it's out there, but I've listened to thousands of hours of psychological content and have yet to hear a clinical take on something like ASPD schemas or what's going on inside while a person is acting out.. This is slightly more discussed for PW NPD.

[@Istilllove]

❤ i love my wife to heal with other men and my friends

[@torriejohnson6347]

I'm starting to think that, when they say, shame.. it's more, humiliation. Because, it's a way to self regulate, it's a way to bring about a response , a desired response without needing anyone. They do this because they are so so low on empathy and everything, that humiliation, being the same chemical response as love or adoration, it's being substituted. They fall in this by accident. They discover gold and become hooked on it like a drug. The arguments, the fights,, the cheating, it's all planned to get a feeling, a dopamine rush, that's why those behaviors are so terribly wrong. They feel it, then realize why humans usually don't do these things. It's mental debauchery, but it's a turn on for them, this develops over time, now those behaviors are so bad, it's so terribly humiliating to not just the public siblings and peers, but it's working against the very image , fragile image they are clinging too.... they loathe themselves they are hooked on cheating, lying, fighting, and when those don't feel the drug induced feeling they require, the behaviors get worse, and the defense of these behaviors gets more volatile. They do this. I find this out during sex, I found out lot of things during sex and midst of anger, it's like the more I humiliated, just by role play, the more primal they became,, I was face to facewith the very monster they are. In this state, no lies, all truth, all desire, all loving, the mask is off. It's insatiable , but it's not a drug they can just go buy. So shame, should be humiliation, guilt caused by it, off the chart. That defense causes all those secondary behaviors, all of them... it's not the core, it's the get the hell out of the way so I can go seek. It's what believe... it's a cycle, grade a supply gets them to void secondary supplies, they have sex with grade a because it's a desire. They use minimal supplies to acquire needs, you might get sex from them, that's just a payment method to keep you supplying. If any of this goes off the map, this is where we see the narcissistic behaviors.

[@givingtree9619]

For anyone who enjoys this video on NPD i would recommend the channel Heal NPD.

[@jontnoneya3404]

I really dislike how you break your interviews up into so many different videos. It's annoying because it makes following the interview flow really difficult. YT's algorithm only suggests one vid, the other maybe not AND playlists are awful. Just put it all in 1 vid and add chapters like so many other people do.

[@dotta4763]

People gets intimidated by hugely long videos. I believe it’s little hassle to follow up the following pieces. Also each video discusses a specific aspect of the condition and makes it easy to find what you’re looking for

[@jontnoneya3404]

@@dotta4763- haha exactly NOBODY gets intimidated by long videos. People are lazy and may not watch them but no one is intimidated by them. That's beyond ridiculous. Joe Rogan is the absolute master of KZbin and his vids run 3 hours and easily get millions of views in a short period of time. You have no idea what you're even talking about.

[@dotta4763]

@@jontnoneya3404 I find funny how you think you can speak for everyone with that “NOBODY” as much as your choice of using the word “ridiculous” I don’t open long videos for instance. You got such a high level of certainty in your tone. May be you could be a good subjects for one of her interviews

[@boomshankaneil]

So this is why "changing" the label to more appropriately "try" to communicate with jello. It's what survivors do in relationship to them. Also never changes anyone. Run. No contact. Can't spend life convincing them and not helping the victims of the trainwreck. Education for public please

[@3dasoo]

Loved this. Thanks for delving into it.

[@EmbraceTerror]

I'm only a layperson. Of the little research I've read, I find empirical evidence is missing regarding ANY alleged disorder (whatever it is labeled: mental, personality, psychological, ...). I've also been unable to find steps for "healing", a definition of "healing" (or of the alleged disorder), measurements of success, reasons why some people take longer to "heal" than others or don't "heal", and numbers to quantify the effectiveness of any alleged treatment. And how can there truly be over 2,000 alleged treatments??? How many were validated by replicated research? I would think that with all of the alleged credentialed professionals, useful effective information would be much more readily available to the industry and at least pieces would have seeped into the general public.

[@EmbraceTerror]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye I think I've found what I searched for, but it wasn't in the seemingly "obvious" places. If you've got an answer, any chance you could share yours? I'll be sharing mine.

[@EmbraceTerror]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye I won't be sharing here, but not because you've stated you're a vulnerable (or any other kind of) NPD. What were you suggesting that I keep searching for?

[@EmbraceTerror]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye I wholly believe alleged NODs can "heal" despite alleged common knowledge to the contrary.

[@EmbraceTerror]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye Racoons' hats.

[@renatagrishko]

All is from childhood. Have a look at Dr Gabor Mate videos. Dr Sam Vaknin is also one to consider watching

[@2adamast]

So, after extending pathological narcissism, I.Weinberg has issues that the literature is mainly talking about (non extended) narcissism only. Feels to me like (non extended) narcissistic abuse.

[@marshall3344]

Please get Dr Salman Akhtar for an interview. It will be the perfect addition to this line-up of pioneers.

[@SP-qi8ur]

Great. You should also look into Dr. Sam Vaknin

[@TheTroutyness]

I know he is suffering. He is just making sure I suffer, too.

[@TheTroutyness]

I wish I could do anything for him, but I am damned no matter what I do.

[@hajarhematian6970]

@@TheTroutyness The only thing you can do, is make sure you stop your own suffering by walking away and having no contact. His suffering is not your responsibility! wish you the best !

[@Alsatiagent]

You rarely learn from the vast collection of so-called experts on YT that the perpetrators of narcissistic behaviours are also the victims of that behaviour. These traits are passed unknowingly from parent or primary caregiver to child. This is one way it spans generations throughout families. Even the self-diagnosed "scapegoat child" will begin sentences with "As an empath...", being completely oblivious to their own challenges of narcissistic disfunction often expressed through manipulative behaviours. I'm not suggesting they are as blatantly difficult as grandiose narcissists but they may have a touch of covert narcissism and not know it.

[@Alsatiagent]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye Still, it's quite a bit more than a posture and becomes a part of ones neurological response to all kinds a different stresses. Things that should not be stressful. Becoming aware of, and educated about NPD is almost a euphoric epiphany, initially, then we find those ruts in our neuro-systems remain unchanged. Whatever the case, for me, it is a hell of a difficult fix but I would not trade places with any of my older siblings for the world. They are each oblivious to their own human condition. Those labels are so abused and mis-used that I can hardly bring myself to use appropriate terms in describing my own struggle...which may well be a symptom of my very own narcissism. Maybe admitting it is half the battle.

[@michelle1813]

A lot of those self described “empaths” are just as bad if not more narcissistic than your “typical” grandiose narcissist. They use their “empathy” as a means to justify that they are superior to others.

[@angelicacroitoru4946]

If narcissism is lack of inner self, core shame, insecurity then this name is not at all accurate. Maybe I'm confused, I had a lot of trauma in my childhood(sexual abuse, neglect, rejected by my mother ) that made me severly dissociated and I thaught I was crazy, stupid ,weak. I also have a no sense of self, and I'm affraid that is narcissism but I cannot understand the manipulative part . It seems to me that this name is not appropiate for this disorder

[@TimoDcTheLikelyLad]

Id love to see several psychologists discussing the topic of Narc, psycho, socio in a plenum to watch. We need more exchange of ideas.

[@BorderlinerNotes]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye Good idea....

[@psyclotronxx3083]

Actually I think this is good news. It validates what I've suspected for a long time

[@joedaley6031]

thank you for this, this is very interesting and helpful.

[@aliacampbell7227]

What I find very dangerous here is that he humanizes the disorder so much so that it ignores the fact that of them become killers because of their disorder and are very violent.

[@pinkbrando]

what's scary is you so called empaths are obsessed OBSESSED with dehumanizing. 'Humanizing' HUMANS!!!!! creep!

[@bluest1524]

It's pretty common that professionals object to laypeople studying the literature and making their own determinations. That doesn't necessarily mean those determinations are wrong.

[@therabbithat]

"Studying the literature" is what people say when they read one DSM diagnosis from some torrented copy of it and think they know the first thing about the disorder. The vast majority of what we know about any given disorder isn't even in that book because the purpose of it is differentiation. People quote it, often misunderstanding what it says, like they did 2 hours of research and now they know more than specialists. There are 100s of unlisted traits of every disorder because every trait that doesn't help you differentiate is left out, no matter how robust the evidence for it

[@bluest1524]

​@@therabbithat That is incorrect. It's not what I meant by studying the literature, nor should you attempt to paraphrase me. There are such people, who throw around language.. .and that's irresponsible. You're using that however to help yourself avoid the fact that same people are not professionals, and yet have a good grasp on various topics. As far as hundreds of traits, very interesting point, but I've known plenty of psychologists; not one of them could elucidate "hundreds of traits" for a given personality disorder. So the layperson would be in the same boat on that score.

[@bluest1524]

@@therabbithat Additionally, you might have mentioned there are plenty of utterly incompetent morons in medical and helping profession, whose opinion would not be of great value in any context. So, it really depends on the individual, and their own integrity and responsibility in doing the work.

[@bluest1524]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye Nope, don't necessarily disagree, and you seem to have misconstrued; I didn't cite nor do I present myself as a self-educated expert on the disorder. But I think you know that. I think you're grasping for another angle here. What I stated, quite simply was, experts on a topic tend to get uncomfortable when lay people educate themselves and speak on that topic.

[@bluest1524]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye Well, I was giving you credit there, apologies if I was mistaken. What I meant was, I assume you are capable of reading my original comment, which you took exception to, and discovering I claimed nothing about being knowledgeable on the topic.

[@michaelobrien8661]

I thought, by definition, narcissists are not capable of being self- aware?

[@aboetarikske]

Nice!

[@mlocante]

This channel is a blessing. Thank you very much.

[@dimitrisgonatas2264]

I guess npd is like little awareness of what you need in life couse of the little inside of youre self.thats why npds get bored with people, work,and the anxiety of their emptyness that they have makes them to create this perfect self and denial self.it cant be me im always right.this is the hard part to change narsissistic solutions and face youre emptyness. I have this sense of emptyness, but i dont have the narsissistic solutions, and it's a hard thing to face it,im more pathetic in my life, and i dont have the courage to take responsibility or decisions.i need inspiration to believe in a way of being and thats my i end up in narsissistic relationships couse they give you that false path of been and i act as a chameleon 😅.know i need to focus on my well-being and self care and responsibility for me and need a more authentic life.i need to be a bit more narsissistic im the opposite o a narcissist and thats very hard to manage as well

[@keeperofdoves]

I am looking forward dancing on her headstone.

[@keeperofdoves]

@user-yu2lo3sm7w sorry, but I am almost 60....a loving person who had witnessed her elderly mother emoitionally abuseed while she struggles with lewy body denentia, and has been tryi g to show herself as the good daughter in law...and me the abuser. This 64 year old woman had been living for free in my Mother's house, destroyed all its beauty, and has deprived all my Mom's friends and her family from even knowing which long term care home she is in. Not only lies to the police but also Takes, deceives, and destroys everything she cones into contact with She hurts animals too . So ya I going to dance.

[@keeperofdoves]

@user-yu2lo3sm7w Thank you for replying and again, I am sorry for my venting on your spot. Not my best moment...and yes, this awful person has been named a sociopath by a RN mental health counselor, but nothing was done....that was 5 years ago. The amount of sabotage and treating everyone like objects is unbelievable. I tried very hard to get this woman into therapy...her only reply was "there is no point" She does not want to help herself...other than to my jewelry, that is. Thank you for the herbal support, and I am aware of the laser light therapy. I hope the rcmp will help me find my Mom. Then I must go to court to pursue guardianship of my Mother and rescue her estate. My brother has become brainwashed and for better or worse is down to me to ensure this entity cannot have contact with vulnerable people...of any age. Again I do apologize for my innapriate comment.

[@rvrnt196]

Still doesn’t help do Wine that won’t go there with you?

[@brandonmcalpin9228]

Start with correcting the NPD criteria in the DSM-5. It’s inaccurate and shows no internal suffering. Get rid of the subtypes, that’s outdated. Vulnerable and Grandiose are mental states by which the Narcissist oscillates depending on external circumstances. Overt and Covert are manifestations of grandiosity. If you’re overtly grandiose, that’s being driven by a covert vulnerability. If you’re overtly vulnerable, that’s being driven by covert grandiosity which has failed. Respected psychoanalysts who described this phenomenon are: Kernberg, Kohut, Levy, Pincus, Lukowitsky, Reich, etc etc. “Many contemporary clinical experts on narcissism now recognize that grandiose self-states oscillate with vulnerable self-states and affective dysregulation within the same person” -Pincus & Lukowitsky, (2010) “Heinz Kohut observed this in his narcissistic clients who suffered from profound alienation, feelings of emptiness, powerlessness, and lack of meaning. Beneath a narcissistic façade, they lacked sufficient internal structures to maintain cohesiveness, stability, and a positive self-image to provide a stable identity.” -Russell, 1985 I’m speaking from personal experiences and the literature backs it up. It’s so weird to me how NPD could be described the way it is in the DSM-5. When the DSM-3 had it correct! With the exception of the subtypes. If they just corrected subtypes for mental states, it would be perfect.

[@michellepetrie876]

Lovely sensitive therapist. Thank you

[@nathanventry4693]

Sam Vactin explains Narcissism in one of his videos; if I can paraphrase here ,he said “ it is basically a failure of the child to be aloud(for some reason)to become an individual,(being over possessed/spoiled) between the ages of 0-36 months, when the child has begun to explore his boundaries, which is a natural progression,and the end result is ,a child who is unable to become an (emotional)adult for fear of losing Mother, so begins the Fear of abandonment/Fear of Engulfment.”Unstable behavior patterns. That is one of his Theories, tell me what you think?FYI ,it sounds pretty reasonable to me.❤

[@bobbarker1798]

I can't forgive the narcissist that have been in my life. I'm offended that you would want us to be sympathetic to the poor, suffering narcissist. I have suffered for many years due to the tortures of these people. I'm currently being spied upon, harassed and threatened with death. They are truly "Snakes in suites." Stop with your sympathy!!!

[@freeperson5444]

That could be psychopathy or a sociopath if this behaviour is hidden from other people. I've been a victim of severe narcissistic abuse for over 20 years from various close relationships and I can see the deeper cause and need for this psychiatric research to help break the cycle . Some pathologies may be genetic and or so severe they're untreatable but for those that are at all treatable hats off to the professor's doing this delicate and arduous work !

[@BlackCoffeeee]

You have just exemplified why information about NPD is needed. The behaviour you describe is not typical of someone with NPD. There is something else going on, probably psychopathy, sociopathy or perhaps they're just nasty individuals. Dr. Ramani and other social media hustlers should be struck off for their insane misinformation. Their videos lead to everyone getting the symptoms of narcissism wrong and painting every shady person as a narcissist. Sympathy comes easy when you understand the actual symptoms of this mental health disorder.

[@NaNa-re3wc]

⁠@@BlackCoffeeee Actually those are not uncommon behaviors of those with NPD. Retaliation even to the point of stalking or physical/emotional abuse. Those with NPD are frequently vindictive in some form. Those of you thinking sympathy or empathy towards those with NPD somehow magically changes the traits or criteria for the diagnosis are delusional. You can empathize with abusers, but that doesn’t take back the abuse they did and it still isn’t justified if they were abused as children. If others truly empathized with those that have NPD, they would acknowledge all of them, even the heinous or malevolent parts.

[@sacrilegepresentations9573]

This is like saying "instead of helping survivors of rape I want to humanize the rapists"

[@kanani717]

False analogy. What you advocate is helping the rapist rape, just like the rest of the narc enablers.

[@BlackCoffeeee]

See, this is what happens when you watch too many Dr Ramani videos. You get to believe that NPD sufferers are evil and should be conflated with rapists. The dehumanisation is sadly too real. Should we liken people with major depressive disorder or schizophrenia to rapists too? Afterall, their behaviour is 'deliberate' too, right? There's nothing as evil as a depressed person ruining lives with their mood manipulations, right? Of course you'd never say that about them but it makes sense to say it about an NPD sufferer? They're not evil, they're ill.

[@marekmedien]

nobody is saying "instead" in this video, he is saying "also".

[@tmrsfitz1967]

Sad Drs have been running from this for years can’t figure this out 🙏🏽🙌💯🙏🏽🙌5 generations of borderline 😮

[@kellyyork3898]

Narcissists, who cause massive amounts of pain to others, actually told you they are suffering on the inside…and you believed them. I’ll be praying for you.

[@BlackCoffeeee]

Do you actually believe that they're not suffering from this mental health disorder? I'm an NPD sufferer and I think you'd be very surprised to learn that it's torture. I'm glad you're a praying person. Perhaps you might pray for God's wisdom on this situation.

[@rosemontoya3656]

THEY ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR DEMONIC ACTIONS! ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH HEALING FOLLOWING THEIR DIAGNOSIS….TOO MANY LIVES DESTROYED AS A RESULT 🙏🏼 THEY DO HAVE RESPONSIBILITY!

[@echo4862]

Did you process anything you saw in the video at all? Do you know what "demon" means in Greek mythology? Have you read anything by Hillman? Yes actual scientific literature, not the bible or How to Kill a Narcissist from Amazon. Talking about black/white thinking.

[@herbieshine1312]

Did you actually watch the video and listen to what was said? It baffles me how people are so quick to condemn.

[@BlackCoffeeee]

Facepalm. 🙄 The whole point of the disorder is that they have a type of thought pattern that seems real to them. This is a mental health disorder and you call them demons? Do you call people with PTSD devils? Or people with major depressive disorder, do you call them evil goblins?

[@anniethompson1041]

I'm glad to see a scientific view of pathological narcissism but even if they get diagnosed or therapeutic "help" a narcissist can not be cured and can never be trusted. Hopefully science can find a way to keep them from doing harm.

[@marcelusdarcy]

This isn't true there are lots of self aware narcissists who try their best not to ever hurt anyone and instead isolate themselves and suffer silently 👍

[@anniethompson1041]

@@marcelusdarcy I truly want to believe that, and I have narcissists in my life who I love who I think do try to be aware but I also think those who are potential targets and victims of narcissists need to be aware and cautious 100% of the time. Children especially can be very very damaged by narcissists. Also narcissists love to play the victim card so feel sorry for them at a distance and always be aware of the mask - the narcissistic false front. You don't do a narcissist any favors by falling for their manipulations so it's okay to be wary.

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

Yes same for self-righteousness. And you don't even suffer.

[@sallyann985]

​@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye ha! Love this

[@bobchemist]

Just imagine if one of these NPD "sufferers" got into a position of power, say President of the United States? It really isn't a good idea to allow these people to be free. We will all suffer at their hands.

[@johndavies7626]

But we are geared to dislike people who in their nature are hurtful to others. To place ourselves out of ourselves to feel sorry for and understand people who would qualify for an NPD diagnosis usually means putting our painful experiences with them, our memory that serves us to keep us away from further pain to one side. Furthermore narcissists have a nature within them to exploit and use others, our resolve to understand them is a paradox, we may think it's helpful but if you understand narcissists then you'll understand that they hope to find others who will placate them, it's their green light to re-use others rather than seeing it as a second chance. Yes they want a second chance, but only to exploit you unfortunately. I really cannot fathom how, in reality, understanding narcissists will bridge a gap to them not being narcissists anymore. They say they always need a mirror to keep their superior self alive, doesn't this just simply put them on a pedestal? How can we expect them to change from there? I think we are having too much empathy here, and to me it sounds like an act of the guilty and empathy gone overboard. Are we just entangled with narcissists and really are just unable to let go of them?

[@alexbalistreya]

I would argue it isn’t entirely in human nature to have traits of NPD; these things develop with context, life experience, predisposition, and complex histories. With these videos that Rebbie presents, I think we are talking about NPD as a diagnostic tool toward recovery. I do believe many with these traits find it easier not to seek recovery. Still, so many do seek healing, and that is what I think a video like this lends itself to, as well as for those who care about the person with a disordered personality that causes pain. With what you shared in your comment, misunderstanding may prevent you from looking at people with these dimensions of personality functioning. They are still people who can change when effort is applied, and tools are discovered. This change isn’t easy, but videos like these can offer something for those who choose to recognize their behavior. It is possible, and there are many stages of relationship repair involved, and maybe you'd rather (understandably) not be involved with repair and instead close yourself off from possibilities. It is a process. I understand many may not see the dimensionality in personality…never really black or white, as Dr. Weinberg (and Dr. Choi-Kain in previous videos) has suggested, but I sure do. It has taken many peoples care, love and openness to my own possibility of change surrounding me to find my own resources of healing from NPD and other personality disorders. I know this is asking a lot to those hurt by people with NPD, but again, it is possible.

[@johndavies7626]

@@alexbalistreya NPD as a diagnostic tool towards recovery? Can you explain what this means?

[@alexbalistreya]

NPD wasn’t ever codified and presented as a disorder without intent toward some kind of healing by doctors and specialists who have developed its criteria and treatments…. Personality disorders are all under umbrellas of healing even if their criteria and treatments are still in continual development and change.

[@johndavies7626]

@@alexbalistreya But how can you use NPD as tool for recovery?

[@danettem614]

Johndavies7626- As someone who has experienced relationships with people who (I felt) could meet enough of the criteria for an NPD diagnosis, I would have to say this is very tricky. How do we trust people whose very nature is to deceive? Well, we don't. Lots of people deceive NPD or not. We can't trust those who deceive, but we can put the focus on self-protection with patience & numerous chances. Although rare, some people with NPD can become truly aware and work through their issues. No one is saying anything about anyone having to have an interpersonal relationship with someone who is deceptive. We have to walk away from that, but we don't have to walk away from developing new strategies in treatment that help people bridge the gap between their being human and their unconscious belief that they're God-like. It's a delusional disorder. They are literally insane. I was just visiting Dr. Ramini's channel, where she did a video on how narcissistic people who have social power tend to control the information that gets spread to wide audiences. They pull articles that give away too much about the issue of narcissism in our culture. Information gets sugar-coated or watered down or removed when it pertains to narcissism in a way that is too revealing or too true. They can't see their own truth, so they ensure it gets blocked, mainly from their view, due to the pain it causes them. The goal would be to get them to. Personal relationships with them are physically, mentally, and emotionally draining because they are not grounded in reality. A lot of society isn't grounded in reality: reality is we are human beings who are flawed and make mistakes that cost us so much. Any type of relationship would be hard with them. No amount of understanding can make it alright to associate with them without strict boundaries. Even then.. The mirror we hold up to them has to be of how they are really being. Standing up to them by mirroring who they are being in reality is a good start. NPD person with social status & power: "Don't you know who I am??" Mirroring person: "Don't you know who I am??? I am human, and so are you. We're more alike than we are different." NPD people then will comb their surroundings for external validation (trying to find someone who will confirm their delusion of status and discredit the truth teller), and there seem to be plenty of compliant people around who will provide validation due to the perceived power these narcissistic people feel they have. Or literal power, i.e., boss, politician, etc. It's about getting the word out and taking our power back, leaving them in a reality that is co-created and not solely created by individuals who believe they are more powerful. We have to stand up and not tolerate their behavior, hence having strong boundaries. Most people are clueless about the fact that narcissism is weaved into the fabric of our culture. It started centuries ago, and we all need to wake up. Now! That's why KZbin channels like this one are VERY important. We need to be informed in a real, wake-up-and-smell-the-narcissim kind of way. My thoughts ♥️

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

I'm trying to find NPDs like me out here. Please let me know. We can't fight the hatred and the lies but we can grow and help one another. Let me know. Those who really wish us well and willing to understand, please do the same.

[@Wetryourbesteachday]

What's up? You've got my attention. What's the plan? Cause I'm sick of the shit, sick of the generalizations about pwNPD and how futile it all seems.

[@TranscendingTrauma]

Fight the stigma by fighting the symptoms! Being self-aware is awesome! It’s a very important first step. After that comes the work. Like an alcoholic could say I’m aware I’m an alcoholic but that doesn’t help anything. It’s a key first step. But then they have to do the work at modifying the behavior. So what kind of things do you think you could do to help yourself make better choices, and then show others that NPD will not hurt them. I am not diagnosed NPD but I have come from the family system and married someone with the disorder. I’ll join you in the fight. But you also have to fight against the disorder. Both :-)

[@TranscendingTrauma]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye I believe in the plasticity of the brain. I believe that well disorders will most likely always present within the brain that we can fight against the symptoms and learn better ways to behave. That is the big problem with NPD is a lack of accountability and I understand it’s part brain structure. But again the brain is malleable I have faith.

[@TranscendingTrauma]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye well, I think the first step is looking at that shame. Behavior modification is far from simple. So this is how I work with my own brain. All of those behaviors that you’re talking about are compulsions and really at the core is self protection, even if it’s destructive to others. So my brain feeds me stories, which create behaviors you might not see them because it’s unconscious. So when my brain starts feeding me these negative loops, I start giving it compassion and I start flipping the story. What births out of this is change. Why did him being sick feel so hurtful to you? One of my favorite mantras is…this is hard, but I can do hard things. I am not minimizing the complexity of personality disorders. But they will never change until we start reflecting. The compulsion to behave the way you do. It’s some thing that you never asked for and I empathize with that. It is now in place. You are not your NPD. Your brain and nervous system maybe prone to processing in a different way, but there is also a nature part of the disorder, and that is life experiences which include the way we behave. So if you can catch yourself in paws before you start getting angry at him for being sick, can you have an internal dialogue? Why does this feel threatening to me? Where could this feeling have come from? Yes, I have faith in you. I have faith in all humans overcoming compulsive disorders. No one asked to be born with this, but darn it it’s on you to fight against it.

[@TranscendingTrauma]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye so like looking at your comments, I see this shame that makes it where you ask the first question but you don’t follow through. It’s just helpless bad person script. Ask yourself why you do those things, but then reflect on what the answer is. Him being sick, threatens his ability to validate you. In childhood, were you over coddled or were you expected to take care of yourself when you were sick? Either experience can create distortion. The shame keeps us from digging in.

[@age93]

iSociety has the narrative it is all choice; therefore, the person is to blame. They don't realize how much they are apart of the very issue. Mental health almost always stem. Shaming a person who doesn't understand or is even aware themselves are just contributes to the problems- which increases the shame preventing treatment. People are abusive pieces of shit who don't have NPD.

[@Soundapple]

Sounds like this guy has cut out an academic niche for himself arguing that people should give empathy to narcissists. Sounds unpractical, dangerous and idiotic in equal measures.

[@frainer]

85% of people in prison are narcissistic, they should be forced to watch The Price is Right for 1 hour everyday forced to watch people jump for joy as they clap their hands from winning big prizes seeing the tears of joy roll down people's faces

[@rw7975]

"muh naRc!" *sociopathic ...and it's more like 60% Stop trying to say things Steve.

[@frainer]

@@rw7975 just a deeper form of narcissism, not all narcissists are sociopath but also sociopaths are narcissistic.

[@rw7975]

@@frainer "Just a deeper form of narcissism" lol what? You have no idea what you're talking about. NPD cites grandiosity - a rare disorder with the strongest genetic correlation of all cluster B. ASPD and BPD will be narcissistic but this is not NPD... again a specific structure. NPD leaves the individual not fully participating in reality and struggling with delusional thinking.

[@BlackCoffeeee]

That's an unusual comment. Quick question, you're confident that you know the difference between NPD and someone with a different disorder who might score high on narcissistic traits?

[@livenotbylies]

This channel pays too little attention to the victims. If they want to heal they are going to have to make amends. Otherwise, the treatment is just an extension of the disorder