All About Cyberpunk - Ep. 102 of Intentionally Blank

[@Halfwithero314]

"I am to philosophy what a philosophy degree is to your resume" is an amazing line

[@inkthinker]

Sometimes I remember that he's pretty good at this writing thing sometimes. XD

[@livingthepct1224]

As someone with a philosophy degree, I'm not sure now to feel about this line.

[@inlesinlet]

It really cracked me up since I do, in fact, have a philosophy degree on my resumé -- and nothing else.

[@Thebigbad1013]

Cyberpunk 2077 is indeed set in Mike Pondsmith's Cyberpunk universe. He was even heavily involved in making the game. Really enjoyed listening to this!

[@brianlinden3042]

Yup, Brandon was right to begin with. I'm not sure what made him doubt himself! (Speaking of which, as much as everybody complained about Cyberpunk 2077 releasing too early, it never really bothered me, because I always thought it was cool that the follow-up to Cyberpunk 2020 released in 2020.)

[@johnblackham3552]

@@brianlinden3042 And honestly I never experienced any serious issues with the game at launch, and I played it on PS4 ... baseline PS4 at that. I must've been one of the lucky ones, but yeah, I didn't even experience framerate stutter. I switched to PC for unrelated reasons, but yeah, I was untouched by the whole fiasco.

[@MCArt25]

@@brianlinden3042 pretty sure that was part of the reason why they released it early

[@LEGnewTube]

"I'm deeply upset it's called cyberpunk because it makes searching for other cyberpunk stuff..." 100% agree! So annoying

[@andaristal]

I will always be thankful to mr. Sanderson for finishing wheel of time. It was my first fantasy series and i will forever cherish it. Thank you, so much for taking on such a risk doing justice to the series.

[@jonw9131]

Word

[@alecandro1958]

On the topic of bionic hands/arms: My fiancee was born missing a bit below the elbow onward on her right arm, so she's got a few inches of the forearm. About 5 years ago she went through the process and was able to get a bionic hand. This works by attaching the hand to a polycarbonate arm-socket prosthetic, which contains a battery and two electrodes, one each on the front and back of the forearm. The muscle actions that open and close, rotate, and change grip pattern of the hand are the same that would flex or extend the hand at the wrist joint in varying combinations. We've done a little looking into what's currently available. They've had a little success with the "brain wave" type function in a few ways. The most interesting to me is an implantation of biopsied muscle from elsewhere on the individual into the arm with further implantation of electrodes and leads connected to those pieces of muscle individually. This does require extensive training to create that mind-muscle connection, but it's pretty cool. There is also lots of work being done with osseointegration and using nerve signaling, which is also extremely interesting and probably ultimately the best route forward for limb different individuals. Funny enough, the big hurdle seems to be measuring... Intent and Command :)

[@thegreyinitiate3680]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate William Gibson’s title selections? Neuromancer, Count Zero, and Mona Lisa Overdrive are all incredible titles.

[@LostLargeCats]

In regard to the conversation around 32:00. The other suffix I have heard instead of -punk is -core. Like pastel-core or gnome-core.

[@sidewalkends]

Short and sweet Cyberpunk definition: high tech, low life.

[@Paul_McSeol]

Nailed it

[@BakumanLakuman]

How much of a margin is there for variation here? I've always seen the 80s as so pivotal and influential to the genre, but I can only think of a view different kinds of stories that still apply as 'cyberpunk' (Alita, Matrix, Tron, etc.)

[@tunisiito]

Fantasy: High magic, low life

[@ThanatoselNyx]

Today we have homeless people with laptops and smartphones, so...

[@IrishWriter]

Clearly we need Gatepunk: sci-fantasy centered around political scandals. GRRM can be the grandfather of the genre.

[@TheLizardKing752]

I'm not sure the "punk" part applies to GRRMs work.

[@IrishWriter]

@@TheLizardKing752 that's the point, punk and gate get thrown around even though they make no sense. They've taken on new meaning.

[@TheLizardKing752]

@@IrishWriter definitely true

[@DAGDRUM53]

10:30 Instead of the term cyberpunk I think Dan means cyberspace, coined in William Gibson's Neuromancer novel [1983] . Gibson's short story Fragments of a Hologram Rose [1977] isn't cyberpunk per se, but his Johnny Mnemonic [1981] is.

[@hopefulinfj]

I just want to say that I love this podcast, and I look forward to it weekly. The world needs more nerdy friendships like Dan+Brandon! Thanks for saying nerdy things and letting us listen in :)

[@ATAKeithStewart]

Dan choosing Derry Girls as his favorite IP is classic Dan!

[@paulbrooks4395]

Hooker with a heart of gold--classic trope of Cyberpunk. Both Blade Runners have the hard-boiled cop analog and some elements of the hooker thing going. The game has that too. I'd recommend playing it, as it does have a number of real-future-looking-feels-bad-that-this-is-true-man moments. Especially the main and Delamain stories (important to read all the emails on the computers to get more understanding). The Cyberpsychosis is also poignant and Johnny's arguments, but they are a little abstruse. Also, Deus Ex is entirely a form of super cop, and excellent games that, especially with Mankind Divided, hit what the future may look like.

[@tiaretik_mtg3142]

The thing about P.K. Dick being the first cyberpunk author is that his cyberpunk book is not Do Androids... , but rather Ubik. It more or less satisfice all genre criteria, and handles deeply cyberpunk-ian themes.

[@thecriticalalchemist7620]

Akira is THE key Cyberpunk work from Japan in the 80s and it also was one of the first anime to breach the gap and become really popular in America, leading it to influence a lot of other Cyberpunk works and define the West's perception of Japanese animation for it's generation. So I'd say that's probably the biggest reason why Cyberpunk and Japan are often linked. Tokyo makes a convenient influence for a huge futuristic city with emphasis on technological advancement as well

[@LLoKKa]

I don't think it's fair to attribute Akira as the reason for the Cyberpunk and Japan link. In the 80s Japan was seen as THE future of mankind. As in, people thought Japan lived in this strange futuristic land that was just about to take us all over with their technology and cultute... then came the 90s and 2000s and Japan just kinda stagnated and its economy stopped growing ever since. Looking back, people were either wrong about Japan being the future, or they were right and the future kinda sucks (which also kinda aligns with cyberpunk's pov as well).

[@barrett8637]

Plus there's a whole bunch of other cyberpunky stuff from Japan, like Bubblegum Crisis.

[@thecriticalalchemist7620]

@@barrett8637 True, but none of that hit mainstream in the West the way Akira did. I'm talking purely from an American/Hollywood perspective here

[@MrRenen89]

And… look at some of the corporations in Japan as well. We think American/european companies are too big? Mitsubishi makes cars, AC units etc and is the biggest bank in Japan and the 9th biggest in the world.

[@MastiffDane1]

I thought the same thing when they were naming anime that contributed to the Japanese link haha. Akira is definitely the biggest influence to that I think, not the only influence, but damn that was so iconic when I was a kid and it's still what I think of with cyberpunk.

[@jeebay5188]

Other then Akira as it’s been mentioned I would include the following. Bubblegum Crisis, Ghost in the Shell, A.D. Police (same world as bubblegum crisis), Mardok Scramble, and Cyber City Oedo 808. Edit: Alita: Battle Angel (blanked out on this one) but all could be considered cyberpunk.

[@AngelaCSpears]

Executive producer with someone else taking the helm who can handle the property well is the best answer.

[@sunshinevs4140]

I don't know if they mention it (haven't finished the video yet), but my absolute favorite Cyberpunk universe is Shadowrun. Just all around cool stuff going on with it, love the stories that the games tell with companion characters too. Edit: they didn't bring it up :(

[@etay4236]

I really enjoyed the punkgate discussion!

[@RavensDagger501]

Ohh! As a self-published cyberpunk author, it's fantastic to see people talking about my favourite genre! There's so many good stories coming out nowadays, and the genre's really booming!

[@craigleagordon]

Likewise. Great to see the genre getting some coverage here.

[@ryanehredt1446]

pretty certain that Cyberpunk 2077 is a continuation of or based in the RPG Cyberpunk by Mike Pondsmith

[@Thebigbad1013]

You are absolutely right.

[@takanara7]

@@Thebigbad1013 yeah it's interesting - I looked it up to see if the game or the literary genre label "cyberpunk" came out first, turns out it was within a few months of eachother.

[@BrandSanderson]

That's what I thought! Thanks for the confirmation.

[@ryanehredt1446]

@@BrandSanderson wow you really do read and respond to comments, thank you for being a man of the people!

[@aaronrichards6163]

The PDF of the original rulebook is in the game files.

[@Epidox]

So glad Brandon mentioned Frostpunk. That game is incredible, and everyone should play it.

[@jamcdonald120]

39:10 I think it happened because Kanji is an amazing language for large square or vertical signs. especialy when compared to latin languages

[@athiendickens]

I also ADORE Cyberpunk! I'm writing a book series set in a cyberpunk universe and I love original works from back in the 70s and 80s

[@jchinckley]

You know what _I'd_ like to read? Some magical combination of Cyber, Steam, and Etherpunk. It would be amazing if someone could properly pull it off. Btw, if you read this and have time... what works from the 70s are to any degree cyberpunk? I always thought of William Gibson as the "father of cyberpunk" with his Neuromancer and Johnny Mnemonic books. Then Walter Jon Williams wrote a few. I've read none of it yet, other than the comics I mentioned. But I find the concepts fascinating and would have purchased Cyberpunk 2077 on release if I'd had funds available for it.

[@athiendickens]

@Chuck9852 I think the fact that it is aged isn't a bad thing, shows that times have changed and the world evolved differently :)

[@mackdmara]

The best part of this. These two gentlemen and scholars, do this to sign stuff. Then they forget to sign stuff. Not to mention the digression of their digression has fallen into disrepair somewhere down the line, so they segway to what they really had planed to talk about, without addressing the original point. That's about right. Chef's kiss. Would you rather? Take a job, when you have no cash but are a bad fit, or starve, but know odds are someone better than you will do the work? If you choose starve, that better be an important thing you didn't do. If you choose the work, it is because the possible paycheck is worth it. The answer is you would take the gig & hope. I kinda describes Brandon's start.

[@saraholivares4747]

You guys are the ONLY people I have ever heard talk about Uglies

[@Schlocky13]

I clicked on this thinking, "Oh! They're gonna talk about the game!" Fell right into the trap Dan talks about at 9:06.

[@hillary6563]

Bruce Bethke... Man, Dan, that is the first time someone has had me look something up in awhile! Kudos! 😆

[@Paul_McSeol]

As a huge fan of the cyber punk genre this was a deeply enjoyable episode. Thank you both so much.

[@joelrunnalls]

Was this the philosophical quandary of Brandon being asked to finish the Wheel of Time?

[@BrandSanderson]

Wheel of Time was a slightly different situation, but it was why I thought of this. Realizing that if I said yes to the WOT, I risked ruining it was daunting. Then again, saying no and risking someone else ruining it was also a consideration...

[@brebre8163]

I've considered your opportunity cost discussion so many times.

[@kaimcdragonfist4803]

The topic of "punkifying" fantasy/sci-fi came up in a discord call I had with a friend. We were talking about the Kiseki/Trails RPG series because I've been playing them lately and I was trying to describe the sort of anachronism stew that the setting has, mixing tech levels from the industrial revolution, the 40's, the mid-to-late 90's, and even beyond, and I was floundering for a way of describing it, and he suggested that it was "some kinda punk" I kinda wish there were a term for it beyond "some kinda punk" tbh, because it's not REALLY a punk-ish series, referring to the musical style. It's just a fantasy series.

[@WubdoR]

I think Altered Carbon (book 1), Mirror's Edge and Black Mirror (some episodes) are worth talking about when talking about Cyberpunk. Personally I also really enjoyed Snow Crash. And I really hope Brandon ends up writing that Mistborn Cyberpunk era someday.

[@emmafritz4657]

I was waiting for them to mention Altered Carbon! I haven't read the books yet, but I really enjoyed the TV series, I'm on yet another rewatch of it.

[@LexiOrchard]

No mention of Pat Cadigan 😮 !!! Such a powerful influence for me! 17:35

[@3choblast3r4]

The first time cyberpunk was used was as the title of Bruce Bethke's short story "cyberpunk" .. Not to be confused with Bruce Sterling, a cyberpunk author that is the close friend of the most famous cyberpunk author/the man that is considered by most the father of cyberpunk, William Gibson who invented the word "cyberspace" and used words like "the matrix" in his books, words that he had learned overhearing IT nerds talk. Cyberpunk is largely collection of sci fi concepts wrapped around a punk aesthetic and attitude. It's why most of the time people talk about early cyberpunk it's not all cyberpunk it just has some cyberpunk themes or technologies. Cyberpunk without the aesthetic and attitude isn't cyberpunk

[@munnamusashippuden7920]

I am surprised Dan didn't mention (or probably doesn't know) about Akira or Battle Angel Alita. Especially Akira whose influences can be seen in cyberpunk media all over the world after it

[@benpuffer7891]

This video came at an interesting time. I just started watching Edgerunners.

[@jrrthompson1996]

34:05 I can agree that Gibson's books get better as they go along, but Count Zero will forever be my favorite because of the opening chapter. Turner's backstory is probably the highlight of the series for me.

[@dylanevartt3219]

Is count zero the second book? I loved neuromancer but couldn't get past the change of main character afterward

[@alexanderfenn4457]

It’s really worth it - coming from someone who’s just read both back to back. Much as I love Case from the first book the ensemble cast in Count Zero is probably better as a whole imo. Plus (maybe it’s just me) the prose flows a little better. Ultimately I just wanted more Gibson and just kept going through the series. I’d really recommend you push on too because the payoff is exceptional!

[@Kingbroly11]

There's a great mitchell and webb sketch explaining watergate-gate because it is a scandal about watergate and not a scandal about water.

[@watcherofthewest8597]

Brandon proposes great question, Dan proceeds to avoid question while discussing Dairy Girls.

[@highcommander2007]

happens every week lol

[@Rennies-World]

I actually think it would have been a better question if Dan would have gotten trick even if he ruined the thing. 😈

[@CHIIIEEEEEEEEFFFFSSS]

LOL at the idea of Dairy Girls instead of Derry Girls

[@Lezzyboy87]

Dairy girls, wtf lol? You mean Derry?

[@duaneswab3420]

I can only speculate Dairy Girls is a food heist involving milk, cream, butter, etc. in an Irish town during the Troubles?

[@tagg1080]

1984 was the best cyberpunk story ever told. Rebellion agianst insturmountable technological oppression. Delicious.

[@aboubenadhem9066]

I think the popularity of metaverse/VR-related stories is because of the narrative possibilities they offer, not because they were ever seen as a convincing vision of the future. They’re the SF version of portal fantasies.

[@e_n_hand]

I love Frostpunk! Though that game does not love me. It has such an amazing sound track. I can't wait for the second one to come out.

[@Colaman112]

Frostpunk is amazing! But it can be extremely brutal sometimes

[@yeahiguessman]

10:30 The genre got its name from a short story literally called "Cyberpunk" in the very early 80's. "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" was just considered to be sci-fi at the time, but fell under the genre after more books following "Cyberpunk" had a sort of common thread in terms of world style and themes explored. Neuromancer, Mirrorshades, Hardwired, When Gravity Falls, etc. It's a bit weird considering the name of the genre was pulled from the title of a book. 2077 is set in Pondsmith's ttrpg world. I believe the original tabletop game is set in like 2013? There's also a new version of the ttrpg subtitled Red, but I haven't played it so I'm not entirely sure what the deal is with it. Pondsmith's world is called Cyberpunk because the characters you play as are referred to as Cyberpunks which gets funny because it's a noun that's the name of a genre in which that genre got its name from a book.

[@MattTheLyon]

I live and breathe RED. It takes place in 2045 and deals with the aftermath of the Night City Holocaust/4th corporate war and Night City is kind of mid-rebuild. Absolute gem of a timeline to be honest that is only going to continue to be expanded upon. R Talsorian is fucking killing it right now. Edit: Underrated component of RED is netrunning. It's stripped back due to the DataKrash caused by Rache Bartmoss. Old NET is full of R.A.B.I.D.S and Rogue A.I. so getting access to it is 1.) very hard to do 2.) pretty certain death. Most networks are all local VPNs at this time. NetWatch is currently working on the Black Wall to section off the Old NET and build the New/Shallow NET that we see in 2077.

[@masonwheeler6536]

7:33: "To say 'take [A Song Of Ice And Fire] away from the creator who's still alive and still working on it,' yeah, that is very insulting." Still alive, sure. But much like _The Doors of Stone,_ people wouldn't be saying things like this if the available evidence gave them a good reason to believe the "still working on it" part. Remember, the most recent one came out the same year as Brandon published _Alloy of Law._

[@Caidezes]

I mean, sure...but the guy is still alive and (supposedly) working on it. Discussing which authors should continue the series in his stead is disrespectful even if he's as slow as molasses. At least wait for him to die. You can be as disappointed with him as you want in the meantime, though.

[@Duiker36]

It's basically like taking someone's burger off their plate because it wasn't in their mouth yet.

[@Fabulist]

For decades my go-to answer to the opening question was “Lost in Space”. I had ideas! But the Netflix series was superb, so that’s gone. (Which is a relief, especially since it was so well done.) My new one is Space: 1999. I have a really good pitch to update it while keeping the best aspects of the original. Space: 2099. Time for some manifesting!

[@eleanorjones26407]

Now I need an episode where Dan gets Brandon to watch Gravity Falls

[@daem0nfaust]

I enjoyed Snow Crash as well. Neal Stephenson and Bruce Sterling are the cyberpunk authors I can wrap my head around.

[@3choblast3r4]

Snow Crash is on my list, kinda weird I mostly know of Bruce as the guy that's friends with and a huge fan off William Gibson. He always reminded me of that chubby intern on the office. Have some of his work on my TBR list too but I don't even remember their name, just that there is an anthology. Neuromancer is one of my favorite books ever

[@daem0nfaust]

@@3choblast3r4 that's fair, to be honest the Bruce Sterling stories I have read are short stories. I do have that one Sterling+Gibson tandem book The Difference Engine but I haven't really read it. Quite different than either of their works since it's technically a period novel.

[@zigorously]

I was JUST talking about how to define cyberpunk with my coworkers a few days ago, this is perfect! I'm gonna come in with a slight counterpoint: VR actually IS seeing quite a boom and becoming an incredibly versatile tech, Facebook's Metaverse just suuuucks 😂 People in platforms like VR Chat have worked out full body tracking, dynamic movable character rigs, facial recognition, and competely custom avatars to be whatever you want (instead of Zuck's floating torso with legs), and there's worlds that put some AAA games to shame with the detail and creativity. There's even been VR conventions rising from the pandemic, with one last year getting almosk 10k attendees!

[@Duiker36]

The channel "People Make Games" did a really good exploration into VR Chat. I'd recommend checking that out if people are intrigued by this comment.

[@guvkon]

Even VR chat still is a niche. There are audience for that but it's not something like smartphones and technologies like video calls.

[@zigorously]

@@guvkon For sure, it's definitely niche and has somewhat of an entry barrier (cost of hardware, mobility, etc). I mostly meant that as examples of "modern successful VR technology", the corporate-made dumpster fire that is the Metaverse wouldn't be a prime example. There's TONS of amazing things being done in the VR space, but mostly by smaller devs and individuals.

[@Lesandira]

7:37: Still alive and still working on it. Well, I'd say the second part of that statement is debatable. I think we should normalize the fact that some of these sweeping, epic sagas just get finished and that is okay. We live in a time when there are more great fantasy books published than one could realistically read in a lifetime.

[@play_history]

The Japanese connection to cyberpunk predates the birth of their own cyberpunk tradition, which is interesting. I don't know if it was a response to the place of their culture as somewhat villainized in Western fiction or not. I do know that the basic idea of the Asian aesthetic was birthed out of the East's rapid modernization where old and new mixed so much that the new seemed unfamiliar, being a perfect backdrop for a society which was increasingly electricized and computerized. It definitely was of an era, but I think there's plenty of room for modern day cyberpunk as well.

[@takanara7]

A lot of it had to do with Blade Runner which was super-popular in Japan, probably in part because it had a lot of Japanese characters in the backgrounds and stuff, lol. Blade Runner was '82 and Akira came out in '88.

[@play_history]

@@takanara7 The Akira manga started in 82, a few months after Blade Runner premiered in Japan. Otomo's not cited it as an influence as far as I'm aware.

[@almogdov]

Since it was mentioned multiple times, did they ever do an episode about Gravity Falls? that show deserves an episode.

[@DadBodSwagGod]

"Cyberpunk This!" is my favorite line from Cyberpunk

[@ggnorekthx]

Regarding the metaverse stuff - anyone who has ever done a call on Skype or Zoom should know that idea was never going to sell. Joining a call on a modern meeting app is usually one click - and even that is too complex. Every meeting takes 5-10 to get started due to mic issues, wrong clicks on the email, etc. And somehow, we are going to evolve this into a giant wearable helmet that introduces way more complications? "hey, I think I flew to the wrong building. Which floor is the room in again? I tried to teleport but my game crashed" etc, lol. The metaverse might work one day as a purely AR, hands-free/gadget-free/helmet-free experience but there's no way in heck anyone is going to spend 8 hours with a VR helmet on, lol.

[@hillary6563]

I was teaching high school (taught Hunger Games with an amazing lesson where I had them create their own Muttations) when the Dystopia craze got out of hand. I've read a fair number in order to fill my shelves, but there were quite a few poorly written ones also. What a great podcast topic this week!

[@Rennies-World]

From Encyclopedia Britannica: The word cyberpunk was coined by writer Bruce Bethke, who wrote a story with that title in 1982. He derived the term from the words cybernetics, the science of replacing human functions with computerized ones, and punk, the cacophonous music and nihilistic sensibility that developed in the youth culture during the 1970s and ’80s. Science-fiction editor Gardner Dozois is generally credited with having popularized the term.

[@takanara7]

Cybernetics doesn't mean replacing human functions with computerized ones, it's the study of control systems, systems of managing large groups of people to do various tasks. And obviously you can use computers to increase your 'cybernetic' ability, so the term started to mean like the use of automatic systems as well. It goes back to ancient grace, means "piloting" Plato uses it in the book Republic.

[@TheAmputeeGamer]

As an amputee, I would love for cybernetics to provide even better mobility.

[@gabinooodle5308]

Akira is a big reason why Cyberpunk and Japan are closely linked, along with other hugely influential anime that informed much of the aesthetics of the genre going forward from the 80s.

[@GypsumGeneration]

And the entire genre of films that started in the 70s? What is this revisionist history

[@zephrymbush8484]

And Neuromancer, published 1984 - 4 years before Akira - and noted as one of the seminal works in cementing the genre as its own thing. Neuromancer strongly sets the tone and tropes for modern cyberpunk. The best theory I've heard as to why Japan got so thoroughly cemented was that the country was absolutely booming in the tech industry at the time and rapidly outpacing everywhere else. From the perspective of the point in time at which the tropes and buzzwords were cemented, if that kind of world was going to come to pass it would most likely be at the hands of Japanese consumer technology corporations. You see a lot of that mindset/logic in cyberpunk fiction to this day.

[@jonevansauthor]

@@zephrymbush8484 right but the the Akira manga star launched at the end of 1982. So, not so much.

[@careymcmanus]

@@zephrymbush8484 I agree with this theory, many of the well known technology companies at the time were Japanese (Sony, Panasonic, etc). I have also heard this theory extended with the idea that because of the amazing growth post war combined with the fact that Japan was the enemy in many peoples memories, there was a underlying sense of awe and fear in society towards the japanese which is ripe for exploring in sci-fi. I kind of think that the movement towards more Chinese themes in scifi reflects a similar awe and fear in the rise of China

[@Isoquant]

One of, yes. But they are correct that 1980s Japanese economic expansion had much of the world believing Japan would be the next great economic and cultural power, sort of how the 2010s had people thinking China would be the future.

[@origosis]

Terms better than "Punk" My daughter and Wife use the term "Core" when things in a very similar way that "punk" is used. So my daughter designs a room in a game to look like a cottage. She calls it "Cottage Core" My wife designs our porch to be like a jungle she called it "Jungle core" And they can google these terms and find others who are using the same exact terms. And as well I already see games and small youtube shows being refered to with the "Core" term. A scary game was "Zombie core" and a kitty based youtube show was "Kitty core" I think this fits well into what "Punk" is being used for better. So Cyber core could have the same look as "Cyberpunk" the game. But if it has a different lore and story then "Punk would not be used. So the game Cyberpunk to me is Cyber-Core with some punk aspects in the world.

[@22Onid]

We are SO CLOSE to DEUS EX cyberpunk games, with all the synthetic implants, corporations, division between people pro-implants vs human purity, etc.

[@brancellbooks]

I love Cyberpunk! I’m reading Neuromancer very soon!

[@littlegiantrobo6523]

Just a thought; It has been some time since I actually read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, but Blade Runner, apparently, was quite in line, visually, with Philip K. Dick vision of that future. While he didn't live to see the film released, he was able to view some complete footage, and he is said to have been very impressed, and is quoted as having stated that it felt, to him, like Ridley Scott has reached right into his head and extracted his vision of it. Assuming the book doesn't really have any of that in it, and assuming that it's true that Dick said these things about his early screenings of the film, it could be interesting to discuss the disparity such as why are they so different if the world is meant to look like that? Is that any sort of problem? And, what are the advantages and disadvantages to leaving out certain world details, in this case, those that Dick did not include in his novel, but he clearly envisioned them when he wrote it?

[@janoyvinderlandsen]

Just a reminder that Brandon uses the word “gearpunk” in the acknowledgment section of the Rithmatist to describe the books genre.

[@stone7858]

All I hear is that we will get a surprise MB cyberpunk era at the same time or right after era 3. BS needs Dan to write it because of time and familiarity with the genre🎉😂

[@robbybevard8034]

Brandon has joked about exactly that in the past but has largely dismissed it given he already has 24 years of books planned and doesn't want to add a whole extra trilogy to the pile. But then he didn't plan on the secret projects either....

[@Persequimur_Umbras]

12:32 ~ From a writing perspective these are the main elements of *Cyberpunk,* think do I. The first is the government is either weak an ineffectual, or they are merely another one of an oligarchy of corporations, the government would have different hiring & interests than a default corporation, believe do I. That oligarchy is typically shown as extremely impeding the protagonist form satisfying his outer conflict. A newly created cyberpunk does *not* have to have *Artificial Intelligence* but it is kind of like what H. E. A. is to Romance, think do I. The line between biology & machine has been so blurred as being invisible. The genre typically has the protagonist fight the corporations, feel do I. Another element that can vary, is the typical species/races in Fantasy are sometimes included. An example of fantasy races in Cyberpunk is Netflix's movie Bright has at least *Orcs* & *Elves.* These are just the impressions left on the distortion of mine. 😅 🌒🌕🌘

[@Kerslayer]

'Vurt' by Jeff Noon, and his other works within the same world, are some of my favourite books, and have a lot of cyberpunk elements. They could also be considered not 'true' cyberpunk, but I'm not sure exactly what genre they would be considered as they're so unique. I discovered them five years ago and am sad that I hardly hear them talked about in any book communities! There's also a TTRPG based on the world of Vurt. They are pretty stylised and maybe not for everyone, but Noon is one of my favourite authors and inspirations as a writer, second only to Terry Pratchett.

[@Kapuzki]

Hi guys. I don't know if you read the comments but, in case you happen to do so, here's a bit: Cyberpunk, by people that dog through its history and the maby examples of it in several types of media, is defined as "high tech / low life" All the things you are noting are common tropes acompanying or surounding that core identity. And it would seem that, when the trend started, all the "punks" were that same thing, but varied in the nature of the "tech" that went with the low life part. Steam punk was almost dickensian england + hidraulic automatons. Uglies is "biopunk" or "solarpunk"... And so on. Just my two cents. Thanks for your hard work.

[@JenWOneNnifer]

Open Bionics hero arms are controlled by signals from your brain, but they interface with the skin on your residual limb. Per their website: The Hero Arm is a myoelectric prostheses. When a user intentionally flexes specific muscles in their residual limb, EMG electrodes within the Hero Arm detect tiny electrical signals, allowing them to activate different grips with precise, proportional control.

[@MisterEnsayne]

20:03 Shadow Children by Haddix for me 👌🏼

[@willardlarkinsnow5622]

Ok now I need Brandon and Dave to talk about the Cyberpunk anime, Cowboy Beebop, and Blade Runner

[@matthewjones1913]

What about Richard Morgan and his Altered carbon series? It felt like 1 of the more modern cyber punk properties for me.

[@Duiker36]

I think Altered Carbon is unquestionably cyberpunk, though it wanders off into other genres of science fiction from time to time with the aliens.

[@snozzmcberry2366]

DAN! Man I hope you somehow see this. In Google, you can exclude terms using -. So if you want non-2077 cyberpunk, you can search for "cyberpunk -2077" (sans quotes, a search term wrapped in quotation marks forces google only to include results where that term was a hit). I just tried that search query and there's an abundance of cyberpunk with not a singular titular digit in sight.

[@the_uggh]

Please Mr.Sanderson, write a cyberpunk book. PLEASE

[@IanGilmore]

It's not possible for Neuromancer to have inspired Blade Runner - Blade Runner came out 2 years before Neuromancer was published. It is possible earlier stories, like Johnny Mnemonic might have been inspiration though.

[@plusmanikantanr]

Dan and brandon teasing us now. Tell us about the Desk! 😂😂😂

[@kaysterae]

“Excuse me while I pee myself!” 😂😂😂

[@zeratul4192]

Really good episode

[@highcommander2007]

How about this controversial take: Isaac Asimov's Foundation or Frank Herbert's Dune are "core" cyberpunk.

[@T1mefortim]

The first three minutes of this is just Brandon and Dan saying, "hmmm, yes" 😂

[@hunterbartley7071]

TRON has always been ahead of its time

[@abnunga]

One of Disney's more interesting productions!

[@lonewolfvule4682]

Just for mentioning DEEP PURPLE, thumbs up!

[@bibliophilecb]

Regarding the conversation about VR, one of the most interesting recent fictional takes I’ve seen about VR was A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor by Hank Green.

[@SRWeaverPoetry]

Ah I forgot I subbed to Brandon. I'm definitely not dissapointed. I love cyberpunk.

[@Mr.Stone_]

YT algo delivers again

[@fredrikfjeld1575]

Yeah there are so many book series that people think Sanderson should/could finish where the style change and type of story would just make it impossible. I find it weird that people even bring up Song of Ice and Fire and think it fits with what Sanderson writes.

[@jaspermooren5883]

Cyberpunk 2077 is based on Cyberpunk, the TTRPG (later called cyberpunk 2020, exactly to differentiate it from the genre). But the term is indeed coined by Bruce Bethke in his work 'Cyberpunk' in 1983. So Cyberpunk the TTRPG was created well before anyone could have really predicted that it would later become super popular and ruin google search results. It makes a lot of sense that Cyberpunk 2077 is retro modern, because the setting was created in 1988. It has been adapted to the modern era in bits though. Newer editions for example have a lot more wireless technology (which is practically non existant in the original) that in the Cyberpunk universe have happened a lot later to match modern technologies. Cyberpunk 2077 has 57 more years of setting history than cyberpunk 2020 after all.

[@leandromafe]

Love this episode!

[@OfficerB--]

If you want good, contemporary, relevant cyberpunk, then look to T. R. Napper. His works: Neon Leviathan (2020), 36 Streets (2022), Ghost of the Neon God (2024), and The Escher Man (2024). He's won a bunch of awards in his home country of Australia, and is highly regarded.

[@ZwHwY]

This episode was a couple weeks too early, before Apple’s AR headset announcement. I’m curious what their initial thoughts are on it

[@samthestache8]

"Where's my flying car?" We already have those, its called a helicopter

[@hiltrud2001]

You are referring to Blade Runner, especially the flight through the city. You know the inspiration for this scene comes from Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" (1929/2010)? It's worth a watch, and also the documentary about the discovery of the long lost reels and the making of exactly that scene!

[@MrRenen89]

Quite late commenter. One big reason that Japan is so cemented in cyberpunk is how connected the corporations are. We look at Meta or Amazon and wonder if they’re too intrusive (which sure, they are), but look at Mitsubishi. Cars, Ac units sure. But also the biggest bank in Japan and 9th biggest in the world.

[@parkernoyce4295]

Dude, I forgot about Uglies. Excellent books

[@kevinhuefner3724]

would've loved for the original to be brought up!

[@John-sx3mp]

Rollerball, a movie from 1975, based on a story published in 1973, produced/directed by the great Normal Jewison, was unbelievably cyberpunk before there was a genre.

[@MarkEichin]

The CS geek version of this is that there are several volumes remaining of The Art of Computer Science (and the author, at 85, is still making good progress on it) but "don't worry, if Knuth doesn't finish it, they'll get Sanderson to"

[@jd2539]

Cyberpunk 2077 was also heavily based on 'Hardwired', by Walter Williams

[@francislally6066]

Hank Green (sci Fi author, KZbinr, professional social media understander) has had a similar conversation about why people don't seem to want VR in a way sci Fi would have expected. He thinks that it's simply that smart phones are too good. They are the virtual reality- when you scroll on Tik Tok or Twitter or Reddit, etc. Are you not being transported to the world wide internet to connect with billions of other people? He argues that smartphones are the dissociation portal that sci Fi expected

[@robbybevard8034]

Yeah in the 80's when pacman and mario were the extent of video games, and home computers weren't a thing yet, of course it made sense to think the future would be tech that could take you away or give you access to stuff... but our video games and phones do that without needing to being hardwired into your brain. The tech became so good, portable, and affordable theres no need to make fancy outlets just for it or to do stuff to your body for it. Ender's Game is one that I read growing up and always visualized with super pixelated graphics... and then the movie had ultra realistic graphics and of course it did. (While cutting out... everything about the internet subplot because that had become nonsense by modern standards)

[@masonwheeler6536]

26:20: "I think the whole 'metaverse' thing with Facebook trying _so hard_ and everyone trying so hard for VR, is because Cyberpunk has taught us that this will be the big next revolution ... and everyone's like 'oh, this science fiction, we can make it real now!' And they're trying so hard, and the public just doesn't want it." Maybe because the public remembers that this is _dystopian_ science fiction, from stories whose whole point is that this hypothetical future sucks and we don't want to live in it. The question is, why don't the people pushing the 'metaverse' remember that part?

[@takanara7]

I think Mark Zuckerberg just thinks VR is cool or something. A big part of their problem is that Apple and google removed the ability to do the kind of invasive tracking they were doing in their mobile apps so Zuck wanted to move everyone over to a platform they ran. The Metaverse might have been more popular if it wasn't from a company everyone hated, lol.

[@Duiker36]

Who's "we"? Dystopias are perfectly fine for the shiny rich people at the top. Why wouldn't Zuck want it?

[@TheLordofMetroids]

Question, does the Takeshi Kovacs series count as Cyberpunk? It's got class struggle, questions about Transhumanism, and Nior detectives, but the trch is quite a bit more advanced than the usual Cyberpunk flare.

[@WubdoR]

Absolutely in my opinion, especially book 1. The later ones are a bit more hard scifi but there's still elements. Offworld colonies exist in other cyberpunk works too. The tech is super advanced, but the themes are all there.

[@mauree1618]

38:50 Ghost in the shell?

[@qliphalpuzzle5453]

I’d say the craze for YA lately been leaning more towards LitRPG, like as soon as I search books in scifi or fantasy is YA centric LitRPG