Bushcraft Axe vs Pulpwood Axe Efficiency. Council tool, Hultafors and Rinaldi Axes

[@azaba2007]

On that note, in competitions in the Basque country, the first cuts are done with a heavier axe and then quickly move to a lighter one because there is no much difference in efficiency but lifting a lighter axe is easier and faster.

[@SkillCult]

Good one. My take on the hultafors/hults/gransfors forest axes are that they are best at nothing, but the closest thing they are to being best at is a combination of portability and ability to do real work, even if they aren't the best at any of it. If someone were packing and portaging and wanted to use an axe every day, they will do everything up to building a cabin, which much shorter axes just won't. They might not do it the most efficiently, but they will do it and it's an acceptable compromise for the most part. One hand use, same thing. Unless you're using them for hours at a time, you can carve and hew stuff. the weight is limiting, the blade length is limiting, the handle length is limiting. But none of them grossly so. I also like them for something to grab and run around in the woods for a few hours when I might need an axe, or might not, or plan to do a lot of walking and only a little chopping and a pulpwood/boy's axe is a bit much to drag around. I think people that want to use one a lot for those reasons and get good with it should do the cordwood challenge and use one almost exclusively for a while to get used to it. Unless well adapted by a lot of use, they feel a bit awkward, a bit more dangerous and it's hard to get the snap needed consistently for good penetration AND accuracy at the same time. It pays to put in time with them more than most axes I think. Otherwise, pulpwood axes FTW again.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Yeah they are a bit of a jack of all trades deal. I prefer the italian style of axes in this size to the swedish ones but in general its a good all round axe and i think a good option for people who haven't figured out exactly what kind of axe they really need yet. way more useful than a 4lb felling axe in any case

[@akashasausuke5249]

You may not know it but just watching your videos, we can learn ALOT.

[@13bravoredleg18]

I like using a Cold Steel Viking Hand Axe for de limbing trees. Lightweight, long cutting edge and a 30" handle.

[@Gladius-]

Good and informative video. The methodology is actually telling me something more than just the usual subjective opinions. Please keep up the good work. You eternize yourself in axe scholar history. ;)

[@javanbybee4822]

oh boy I need to get a Rinaldi

[@akashasausuke5249]

You are awesome brother 💪 thanks again for your knowledge and another great video!

[@gumboot65]

I need to try my CT Boy's Axe for my firewood chopping. I'm very impressed with my axes tha weigh between 3 1/2 to 4 lbs for my Axe Cordwood Challenge chopping. But , I may as well try the Boys axe. I very much like that Rinaldi. Looking forward to getting one of them

[@turtlewolfpack6061]

Very good video! Although my axe armoury isn't as extensive as yours I do have a lot of years under my belt of axe use and I might just get buried with one when the time comes. The longer bit does make a considerable difference in the use of the axe, one reason the Hachas Jauregui axes are so good I think. I also have a 2.25lb West German made Ruhr boys axe with a very long bit for the weight and it is pretty good as well, in my limited experience with them you really can't go wrong with a good German axe!

[@lukemorarend2682]

Very good stuff. It’s a shame that there aren’t more American manufacturers that make an axe with a 28” handle and a 2.5 to 3 pound head. Obviously, there’s the Council Tool Boys Axe, but I feel that the head might be a little too light. I don’t have that specific axe, but I do have an axe that is very similar to it, and it lacks the power that a slightly heavier axe has. I guess there isn’t a market for a pulpwood axe here anymore, which I find strange because, the pulpwood axe is great for general work and does the work you might not need a chainsaw for, but at hardware stores you only find polar opposites, the 4 pound felling axes and the small hatchets. If most felling and large bucking is done with chainsaws now, why are felling axes ubiquitous in almost every hardware store? I would’ve thought that American manufactures would be eager to fill the gap with something more closely resembling a pulpwood axe. Anyways, that’s all of my rambling for today.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I think it is a matter of customers being misinformed and driving a market that produces inferior tools. The ochsenkopf catalogue has it right in my opinion, lightwieght iltis chopping axes and big heavy splitters, makes far more sense than producing 36" 4lb felling axes

[@noone3734]

@@benscottwoodchopper I think axe makers also have misconceptions about the market. They don't seem to think the axe enthusiast market is worth catering to. Seems wrong to me, but my perspective is admittedly very limited. I would think axe hobbiests would be the biggest market in axes, but I'm apparently wrong. I'd love to see how they determine market demand.

[@lukemorarend2682]

That makes a lot of sense. I was going to mention Ochsenkopf, they definitely fill the void, but I wanted to stick as close as I could to the American market, as that’s where I am. I’m lucky that it is still relatively easy to find some decent vintage axes here and that Council Tool is still remaining prevalent. I also wanted to thank you Ben, for revitalizing the KZbin axe community. I’m sure you know but, not that long ago it was a mix between some Wranglerstar videos and a smattering of axe reviews and pathetic exhibitions of axemanship.

[@lukemorarend2682]

soja maile I agree, but who else do they have to cater to? I mean there are foresters or similar professionals who might use axes occasionally to drive wedges or the odd chopping task, but outside of that or someone splitting some firewood now and again, who else other than axe enthusiasts buy axes and use them for legitimate chopping? It seems to me that catering (if even in a minor degree) to the axe enthusiast market would be wise a thing to do for a company. Just take a look at Council Tool. They’ve introduced their sport utility line, started using the traditional wedge system, expanded their line of axes, and started putting shorter handles on full sized heads. This opens many new doors for Council Tool and allows them to gain ground over the more expensive Swedish axe companies. Why other companies don’t follow Council Tool’s example and invest in potentially lucrative market seems foolish. However, I think that most hardware store axe makers aren’t interested in making a tool that is quality and could maybe become an heirloom, as then you won’t need to buy another heirloom quality axe for years (same goes for power tools and most other tools), the cheaper you make ‘em the quicker you throw it away and the quicker you buy a new one, and that’s where the money‘s at now. This is speaking strictly from my stand point in the U.S, however it seems in Europe that there are quite a few quality options when it comes to production axes which don’t break the bank. There’s bound to be something I’m missing. Then again, I’m no market researcher.

[@vinniesdayoff3968]

@@lukemorarend2682 You hit the nail on the head Luke. I would say the KZbin axe community was full of metrosexuals who were worried about the "fit and finish" on axes that were never used.

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

Yeah think ive come to the same conclusion with the Rinaldi vs the Hultafors that while on the surface the Hultafors can penetrate better in actuality the Rinaldis greater edge length makes it a lot more effective for limbing. Had a go with the Helko made Bahco the other day and that straight handle does very well and makes up for having maybe a narrower edge by being very accurate even for beginners as my friend and his brother were having a go bucking with it as well so I definitely think the straight handle was a factor. I have a soft spot for the council boys axe having used one a fair bit too just a real nice little axe.

[@dermotmcgreevy5220]

can you send me a link to the bahco

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

@@dermotmcgreevy5220 Ah Sadly they arent made in the EU anymore mines an old one But heres the link anyway www.twtoolsuperstore.co.uk/bahco-professional-log-wood-axe-hatchet.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA-f78BRBbEiwATKRRBIqEgJmNpynQahd7NV7VQnv1s6QMHks1P5ZCHJfG3_xlJv7ZStbODxoCn6QQAvD_BwE though for my money id go for the council tool If I were to get another boys axe. But the Bahcos definitely a good Beater for keeping around for sure think their handle pattern is slightly different than the old one I got but they come quite thick which means you can shave em into basically a straight handle without too much worry.

[@TheGuitarRoom]

Hello Ben. Your videos are wonderful. Thank you. I would live your advice on a matter. I love the Rinaldi patterned axes as well as the Basque axe. I have a 2000g Basque axe as well as a Rinaldi Cadore and large Rinaldi Trento with an offset handle. The Trento is a devastating felling tool you seem very fond of the Rinaldi American boys axe. I was trying to decide between the Rinaldi American Boys axe and the Rinaldi Calabria axe. Your thoughts? Thank you Ben

[@benscottwoodchopper]

If its the 700 gram versions we are talking about get the american boys axe

[@imover9999]

@@benscottwoodchopper I had the same question, and I seem to recall you mentioned the Calabria was better considering the American Boys Axe is 2 lbs 6 oz whereas the Calabria is 1.5lbs (700g). Unless you get the 18 inch American Hand Axe. Then they weigh the same. The Calabria seems to have a better head for splitting as well as being 1 pound lighter. Could you clarify this confusion if possible? Thank you for all your knowledge, I'm a total noobie and it helps tremendously.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@imover9999 you can get both the calabria and american in 700 grams, calabria is a wedge pattern and american is super thin. I have 700 gram american and 1300 gram calabrian

[@Steve_G88]

i didnt even recognize you at first bud! lol

[@KevinsDisobedience]

I’m envious of that English pattern on that handle. Looks like the perfect work axe, at least for me and my purposes. Where’d you find that gem?

[@Sager-fs9bv]

I am envious too it looks like the perfect all rounder and I have started the hunt for one similar.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

found it gutting a hoarder house at work. funny thing that years of searching for the perfect axe from various makers and find perhaps best in piles of garbage and rat shit.

[@brothersfromotherslb]

Hi Ben, I’ve been watching a lot of your videos lately. I have been chopping a lot lately with my hultafors 66cm 850 gram axe (modified ofc following your and steven (skillcults) advice). But now that my technique is getting better I feel like I want a little more power. I have moderate axe experience so I can chop a pretty long time (for me) with my light axe. (2-3hrs) I also workout a lot. I’m 1m85cm (6.069feet). QUESTION: Is it better for me to get a 70cm 1.2kg axe or a 80cm 1.5kg axe? (Coming from the 66cm 850gram one.) thanks! Love your vids!

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I would get the 1.5kg axe from hultafors, its a big jump but will give you more options

[@brothersfromotherslb]

Ben Scott thanks!

[@crissignori7482]

Hey Ben .... I have made myself a project in my local conservation area to try and make some benches from old logs cut at left at the trailside. I have the Hultafors Qvarfot and the Husqvarna carpenters axes. The current log I am working on is about 3 feet in diameter and it is well aged oak. Getting through it is like chopping at cement. Any suggestions ? Yes, I know I could give up or I could use power tools but neither of those are choices that I want to make. Thanks

[@benscottwoodchopper]

For that size of wood i would use power tools. even when green that is a hell of a lot of work. when seasoned like that you will have no chance even with much better axes

[@crissignori7482]

@@benscottwoodchopper Thanks Ben ..... I have plenty of time so I do a few minutes almost every day and I am gradually getting through it. I have already completed one seat.

[@BRENDANTHERED]

Have you tried an adze? I'm not sure, as I haven't used mine much, let alone on wood that hard, but it's a tool designed to flatten, often used along with Broad-axes. One of those may give you better results... the adze I mean, not a broad-axe. An adze usually has a single beveled cutting edge, and thus would have an easier time getting a bite into wood at such a low angle. Wood plane-blades also have single bevelled cutting edges.

[@crissignori7482]

@@BRENDANTHERED Thanks very much I will look into those options

[@noone3734]

My friend just got a 1.25 Basque axe with a 60cm handle, and I am very impressed with it. It's a tiny axe, but it's thicker in the cheeks than my 3.5lb council jersey. I'm going to help him carve a 28in hickory handle for it. I was also not expecting it to be so very thin at the toe and heel. Ben, you know of anything still being made that can hold a candle to the Basque axes?

[@benscottwoodchopper]

nope, nothing still bieng made that is even close to the basques

[@noone3734]

@@benscottwoodchopper Do you think the main differences are the high centerline, convex cheeks and super thin edge? I think I can see why the Basque works so well. The Basque has a thicker profile because of the larger eye, and the thickness of the wedge is maintained in the centerline and tapered very nicely to the toe and heel. I think the smoothness of the convexity also makes it better at breaking chips and not sticking. Having a stock edge angle of 15° to 19° is a big deal. I know I always bring this up, but axes used to be made like this. I would like to understand why this technology was lost and why no one will bring it back. Seemingly every big name axe maker in the old days made axes with high centerline convex cheeks, but nowadays nobody makes one except the last Basque axe maker.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

yup you've got it. I think this geometry is harder and more expensive to mass produce compared to flat cheek axes

[@noone3734]

@@benscottwoodchopper In my opinion, the axe industry is largely unconcerned about axe technology and they probably don't realise or care that they are disregarding one of the most important aspects of axe geometry. I hardly know anything about axe manufacturing, but I would think making axes with convex cheeks wouldn't be much more complicated than making new dies for drop forging. I'm sure you've seen the short documentary where Jose Ramon Jauregi pretty much shows the whole process of how he makes axes. I know he is a very skilled artisan, but surely modern day manufacturers could easily forge thicker axes with convex cheeks without much more cost.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I think really the axe industry at the moment either designs thier heads and handles for either low production cost, aesthetics and robustness to the point that the tool is hard to even hold. since so few actually use thier axes the idea nobody really knows or cares about the difference in geometry

[@jeffreydustin5303]

All else equal which axe design is the easiest to achieve high accuracy in the shortest time?

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Anything 28", 1 to 1.5kg and with at least 4" edge length

[@uberdan08]

I see you ended up getting the covid crew cut too.