Butted, Riveted, Welded Mail - Guide For Reenactors, Larpers and Collectors

Whether you are a collector or a larper or you have decided to start diving into the world of historical reenactment mail armour is a kind of armour that you have probably been looking at.
Mail was used by the Celts, by the Romans, by the Vikings, and all the way from the classical era as primary armour to the late middle ages as secondary armour, under plate.
Here is a guide to help you find the right mail armour just for you.
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[@intellegence63smart]

I've been watching your videos non-stop since yesterday now and have really enjoyed the depth that you put into your videos. Hey, everyone, this guy is something special. I'm so glad I found your channel and I'll be sharing it among my groups of friends.

[@metatronyt]

I really appreciate that, thank you

[@SketchingCrow]

I found rather funny that there's modern map under "historical accuracy" title, Russia hadn't chain-mails, Königsberg hadn't chain-mails. Video is interesting and informative, thanks for that, it's just, well, funny.

[@Sunyatasattva]

"Pink helmet with a flower on top and an axe ditched into it" confirmed as the next Metatron's review piece.

[@metatronyt]

+Sunyatasattva xD

[@SirGalath]

so the moral of this story is, get anything you want unless you are a reenactor

[@308dad8]

Yes. That is the moral of the story

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

Or if your a reenactor roleplay as a fucking present who can only by the cheapest shit available.

[@ianstobie]

Knitted armour. Use grey wool.

[@not-a-theist8251]

Now I want this helm. This video is over 4 years old and still the best guide on mail on KZbin. That's impressive thanks for that.

[@sargi769]

I enjoy these videos because every time I watch one I learn something new. Also as I'm sure many of you will agree, real mail armour is a thing of beauty.

[@The_Gallowglass]

All mail is butted when you sit. ;D heheh

[@metatronyt]

+Ó Slatraigh xD

[@Apopateus]

Or when you shit :D

[@theinternetdebateman3437]

You win. That is all.

[@shadowfoxcorp]

I see what you did there.

[@Runoratsu]

…with letters in your back pocket.

[@Intrepid_Explorer]

I'm glad you mentioned the type of weaves in mail armor; 4-in-1, 6-in-1, or even 8-in-1, as the higher weave concentration is VERY hard to pierce, especially if its riveted as well.

[@juanzulu1318]

Was 6in1 and 8in1 historical? Do have some links to this topic?

[@juanzulu1318]

@@celem91 interesting, thx. Do u maybe have the link at hand to that video? I would be interested to understand on what archaeological evidence we come to the cinclusion that it was historical (in Europe).

Galvanized mail looks like mithril from LotR.

[@GrasshopperKelly]

The actual prop vest was an aluminium alloy. Hence the beautiful pearly hew in the silvery shine.

[@PanthereaLeonis]

So for fantasy larp, you can show up in flashy pink armor if you want to... Oh no, now my mind wants me to make green "rune" chain-mail from RuneScape.

[@s12y6o24]

@@PanthereaLeonis wouldn't green be addy, and light blue for rune?

[@Ottuln]

My personal experience is as follows: Butted Mail is great for looks, and if you want to feel what wearing mail is like. It will not behave like historical armor, and shouldn't be thought to do so. Riveted Mail is more accurate, and will hold up more, but is hugely expensive. It is accurate looking, but is a collection piece. The strength only matters if you plan to beat the hell out of it, and it would be the ideal for testing. Welded: I have no experience, but I imagine it sits between the other two. Not historically accurate, but stronger than butted. You forgot to mention that the steel used in modern mail will be far higher quality than what you would have found in historical mail.

[@NonApplicable1983]

Butted mail did exist historically though.

[@Ottuln]

Rodrigo Ugarte I did say more accurate, not exclusively accurate. There are very few instances of butted mail in Europe, with at least one supposed example later being shown to actually be riveted. Roman mail was half/half, Japanese mail in 14-15th centuries was almost exclusively butted, and there are a few instances of mid-east butted mail for very small links. You are correct to say it existed, but riveted was so ridiculously more common in Europe that butted mail is an oddity.

[@1988RanDom]

+Wreqt - Butted chain mail was also used to conduct quick repairs of riveted mail in field, but if you had the ability to make riveted, you had no reason not to.

[@NoESanity]

+Wreqt butted if good for Larping or looking the part. so a normal person who goes to a fair or wants a costume piece. riveted is for serious collectors and people who are in it for historical accuracy welded while not as accurate, in my experience is stronger than riveted, so for people who do real combat, like professional jousters or stage combat using solid stage weapons i've also heard that the welded mail feels better under plate,

[@NoESanity]

+1988RanDom there were plenty of reasons not to. for example, the husband of the dame you fancy. his armor fails, he dies, you get laid. perfect reason to go with butted. also, butted was used in asia more than riveted. twisted was also used in japan and china instead of riveting, which was considered to be to costly

[@mattbrown5511]

Awesome explanation of types, material, and useage of mail armies. You bring light to the world. Fly high Metatron.

[@breaux2806]

I've had riveted aluminum mail, it was great for costumes and I would say it was stronger than butted steel armor but the rings would rip if stabbed, so I definitely don't recommend using it for fighting. My biggest complaint about it is that the aluminum rubbing against its self covered all of my clothes in a dark silver aluminum powder.

[@rockmcdwayne1710]

There are aluminium alloys that are very strong and light though. Like the aluminium used for aircraft parts. Its also very expensive material though and i dont know if its even possible to make mail out of it?

[@hanzolos1852]

4:26 but of course; *IT DOES HAVE ITS COSTS*

[@ryanbarker5217]

jeez, maybe i should start making chain mail armour, eh? get a couple of friend's kids involved, they'd love that stuff.... yes, i'm not above using friend's kids for child labour.

[@brumalogresteer4124]

ryan barker Kids will love that!😃

[@borttormcpe4275]

Just make sure the rings sit proper

[@michaelrichter8040]

your not the first to have the idea my first job was making 4 in 1s and getting paid by the pound. by a shop that sold butted mail. Made way less than min. wage tho

[@fan9775]

Doesn't stop the Indians, why should it stop you?

[@Man19681968]

Y very much eenjoy your videos and I have been following them since I discovered you months ago. I am mexican and today our foreign minister is in Rome and a couple of hours ago, annouunced that the govenment of Italy kindly returned some ancient reliccs stolen many years ago. I will follow you for as long as you continue posting.

[@steellegion7054]

This came out on my birthday. Great video, I have always wanted to see on how mail could be made and how well it could be in quality.

[@grassfuse]

I have only recently subscribed to your site and find it very interesting,especially the Roman/Italian Aspects.I would just like to say I much prefer the Videos that you actually appear in rather than just a 'Voice' your personality is a selling point and it doesn't come across as well when your not on screen!

[@theblackbaron4119]

Mail armor is so riveting.

[@Thrand11]

Great video!

[@liamobrien4985]

Thank you very much for this video ! The whole round,flat and other options always made me wonder what was more protective as prices were much different between them. Would love to see a follow up or a few on buying plate,brigandine and lamellar armour :)

[@metatronyt]

+Liam O'Brien (ThatHurtsGuy) I have already recorded the plate armour version but it will take quite a bit to edit xD in the meantime I'll upload other videos but it will come :D

[@liamobrien4985]

+Metatron Can't wait to see it, thank you :)

[@mercifulone7065]

Wow! Thanks for explaining all of that! I always found the differences in Mail armor confusing. Thx for clarifying everything!

[@jessehellakoo]

This was a very well done, informative, and simple vid. Thanks 😊

[@Grouuumpf]

here is my two cents on it: galvanised iron will get a patine after a bit of use, making it less shiny. basically, after a year it will start to ressemble a brand new non-galva mail. Still look a bit off, but I'd say it's worth mentioning. (hammering the rings before assembly helps a lot too).

[@freedomordeath89]

I want a scale mail made of Euros

[@metatronyt]

+Johnny xD xD

[@da_gonozal6754]

+Johnny dunno about that, but here's one made from spoons i.imgur.com/LFjlLPV.jpg

[@freedomordeath89]

cool ahahha!

[@propyro85]

@@da_gonozal6754 That actually looks pretty decent, do you have any better pictures of it?

[@rumpelpumpel7687]

@@da_gonozal6754 lol that spoon scale mail is a super budget idea for costume production :D love it

[@PanthereaLeonis]

Are you telling me that tailored, hand riveted mail made by professional craftsmen is expensive? *mind blown*

[@MrFinalfabio]

We were talking about this a few days ago ^^. Good job

[@metatronyt]

+Fabio Cosenza Yes indeed :D and thank you pal

[@eliaskanaan1447]

wow thanks for the video it answered every single question I had days before I am going to purchase mail

[@seb2750]

What will you be getting?

[@eliaskanaan1447]

+xDog .SoldieRx maille or chainmail(whatever you prefer it as) for my suit of armor that im getting for the upcoming reenactments

[@dragonofdojima8292]

Just a side note. A well done weld has a much higher tensile strength than its parent material. The shear strength, however, can in fact be less than the original components. The way that mail is designed redistributes force into overall tensile stress throughout the armor. This design capitalizes on the resistances of the weld.

[@legral]

Fantastic breakdown for newbies. Thumbs up!

[@Fedorchik1536]

A little nitpick - aluminium is anything, but not brittle. It is soft and can be easily cut through, but it is very flexible. Perhaps you mistaken it for duraluminium (which is aluminium-based alloy) - it is much stronger than aluminium and some types can be as tough as steel, but is lighter and can be brittle.

[@metatronyt]

+Nick Fedorov I was only referring to the strength of the rings, I own among others an aluminium shirt, the rings break open very easily, so probably brittle is not the best word for it, but the strength of the link in butted alluminium is equal to nothing in my experience, you coul almost open it by hand.

[@Nozomu564]

+Metatron that's why you should always check the alloy if you're buying something even remotely expensive and there is possibility you would care about it's durability. Especially in case of aluminium where regular customers can only distinguish duraluminium and "aluminium". It's like sorting iron-based things into "eee.. steel" and "anything other containing iron" categories.

[@Catubrannos]

For time and budget reasons, you can use butted rings purchased from a spring manufacturer. These spring steel rings tend to be stronger than the rings that appear in commercially available butted mail products. You can then knit the armour to conform to your body. I mention time because butting is a lot quicker than riveting though obviously the finished armour will be smoother than the historic riveted version. The kind of force that would be required to pierce a spring steel butted armour would do you serious injury if you wearing riveted armour so the only drawback is authenticity.

[@carlos89784]

I guess I am a larper. I bought several products to recreate a Templar knight armour. I bought a great helm with a golden cross in the front. An iron steel butted chainmal V neck coif An iron steel flat rivetted chainmail A padded coat armour (late 12th century) A padded coif Gonna buy a cloak and the shirt with the red cross in the center left chest.

[@CarlosJoachim]

Dear Metatron, Great video, I fully agree with the stuff you say. I only find that you are maybe a bit hard on the reenactors. I am a beginning reenactor myself (12th century Templar, very original choice ;-) ). and i chose to buy butted mail rather than riveted. The reasons for this are firstly: price, as a beginning reenactor you don't want to immediately spent all your savings on you costume. And secondly work-ability/repair-ability, I was not happy with the fit and form of my mail (I got mail that completely covers me and thus I want it to fit snugly. For this reason I got myself a bag of spare links and made large parts of extra mail myself. Obviously this is possible with riveted mail but it would take ages to do it properly and small mistakes cannot easily be corrected. Also from a distance you can barely see the difference between butted and riveted mail. For these reasons I would say that butted mail is also acceptable (though not historically accurate) for reenactors. I do plan to get myself a full riveted mail suit at some point in my life, but as you stated in your video, that would be an enormous investment, especially if I have it fitted to my body. Lastly, Thrand has a video in which he tests the really cheap Indian mail in combination with a padded cap and it actually holds out really well!

[@Glimmlampe1982]

+CarlosJoachim the better solution would be to concentrate on the more important stuff (non-armor stuff like clothing) and save the money until you can afford a rivited mail. saves a lot of money and you dont end up with obviously wrong stuff ;) especially if you want to go into reenactment and not what we in german call GroMi (Grobmittelalter.. would translate to something like "somewhat medieval") but as someone who bought armor and sword first, i am not the best to throw the first stone ;)

[@KanaiIle]

+Glimmlampe1982 I have to agree with Meister Lampe hier. It´s not reenacting if it´s not historically accurate, and historical accuracy takes a lot of work. Even for clothing, there are things to consider like the fabric (no cotton), the shape, the sewing technique (especially nothing machine made), the fabric of the yarn, the nature of the coloring (plant-based colors and not chemical ones)... and so on. A similar list could be done for arms and armor - which is why I, even though I own lots of medieval-themed clothing and equipment, would never call myself a reenactor. If you want to do just a bit of costume play, then that´s fine, have fun with that :) But if you want to reenact, there are no half-measures.

[@blasty137]

I have a question for reenactors: how do you feel about forge-welded mail? I tried to make riveted mail and all goes well except for the actual riveting, I could never make it look good. Yes, it's effective, and yes, it's actually riveted, but on the other hand when you take a close look it just doesn't look anything like the actual historical or modern commercial riveted mail, plus it takes a lot of time and I end up wasting a lot of rings. I didn't want to give up and I couldn't afford to buy a finished one (more on that later), so after some thinking and experimenting I started making forge-welded rings. Basically the process of production is the same as for riveted rings, except that instead of riveting the overlapping ends I just forge weld them. The rings look the same apart from the lack of the rivet, so if you're looking from more than 2 meters away you can't tell the difference. I know it's not historical (there were forge-welded rings in Anglo-Saxon England in Sutton Hoo and Coppergate burials, but they were combined with riveted and looked different from mine so I'm not going to use them to 'justify' my decision, although they actually inspired me to start thinking in that direction), but on the plus side - the shape of the rings is the same (the only visual difference is the absence of the rivet), the weight is the same, the 'feel' and sound it makes is same, and it's actually stronger than riveted. The thing is, when you live in a poor country, even if you have a good salary for local standards your extra money is pretty worthless when you try to buy something from abroad. Buying stuff that doesn't require too much time to produce (such as helmets or blunt weapons) from local blacksmiths is affordable, but when it comes to acquiring labor-intensive items (such as mail) people have two options - make your own or give up. That's why most people end up using butted - nobody likes it, but everyone is aware of the economic situation so it's kinda tolerated. Personally I think that in such a situation forge-welded is definitely better than butted...

[@Thomas_the_Noble]

Metatron, about the butted mail in Europe there is an example about one from the second half of the 17th century specifally a Tatar mail shirt. The translated description: The rings are simply bent, not soldered or riveted. I personally have not seen the mail shirt from up close only from a picture and I can hardly tell if it is actually like the butted type.

[@codysavoie7465]

I learned quite a bit from this. Thank you.

[@SanjiKunTheLoveCook]

Recently tried out an aluminum chain mail, i swear that thing would tear doing light sparring with foam swords. Now i did try butted steel chain mail and the difference in durability is really great, sure you will eventually lose a ring (which is no big deal if you know how to repair a chainmail) but the weight is really consistent, ALWAYS bring a belt for the waist when wearing chainmail or by the end of the day you will be absolutely exhausted and your shoulders and neck will hurt like hell

[@UrielOmega]

Request: Would it be possible to do some videos on proper maintenance of armor and weapons, both modern and historical methods. I'm very interested in how warriors of the past would kept all of their gear in proper condition.

[@Glimmlampe1982]

Very good video, i would only add two points: * there is no prove for a gambeson in the early middle ages, neither in finds nor in texts or pictures. most likely normal clothing was enough under the mail, especilly if you take into account that the clothing was thicker than normal clothing today. * galvanizing isn't historically correct, but there is evidence that at least some (some sugest most) mail was tin-coated. but i haven't seen any tin-coated armor for sale yet.

[@GrasshopperKelly]

There is also cast mail. Where every 5th ring in Euro 4/1 and Kings 8/2 is cast whole, which makes every second row of the armour the strongest. This made armour faster to produce, but brought the requirements of an additional skilled labourer into the workshop. As typically they went from just purchasing the wire, to having a dedicated smithy producing wire, casting rings, and moving tool care and production from external to internal. Something not everyone seems to know. Euro mail typically took 5+ craftsmen in any respectful armourer's shop. Due to the 5-7 dedicated skills. Nowadays, it takes any lone traditional craftsman, approximately 10-12 months to produce a fully riveted mail. jacket. Up to 14 if it's also for a cavalrymen with skirts, or depending on the style and/or target era, any legs/leggings etc. Hence the price-tag...

[@generalstrike7187]

I would recommend riveted mail for LARP too. Butted mail tends to snag on hair and costumes (having a butted mail hauberk hanging off your long hair at 3am with nobody around to help is no joke), and even if very carefully made eventually the rings start to move at the join, snag more, and occasionally rings can be lost - butted mail is simply not that robust. Also in order to mitigate some of these problems, the rings tend to be heavier gauge so the armour will be heavier overall than many comparable riveted armours. Riveted mails can get away with lighter rings and still be stronger than butted. On the welded mail front, I have seen some examples of historic middle eastern mails that were claimed to be welded, but I am not sure how - I wonder if very high quality mails could have been forge-welded with special tools? Perhaps a very specific stake and punch could have been used to forge the rings closed. There would be numerous challenges to overcome to achieve it though, and I am not sure that the claims are true.

[@keatoncampbell820]

There do exist welded mail in history, though exceedingly rare. I can't remember the source (KZbin commenters, right?) but I believe it was a rather small aventail on some very specific helmet, where the links were assembled in 4 to 1 and were forge welded when added to the pattern. I think the method supposedly used was to pull a piping-hot (glowing yellow! Bright yellow!) ring out of the forge, add it immediately to the pattern and smack with hammer. Seems tedious to me.

[@Native_love]

Thank you Metatron!

[@giovannabuskulic3595]

What is better for self defense against blade attacks, riveted or welded chainmail? I have been watching your videos for a very long time. You make excellent videos. Keep up the good work. Greetings from Catania, Italy!

[@J.Leistikow]

You can find the right picture in 6:05 on the internet website battle merchant. That's where I bought my riveted mail from. I worked a long time to finally purchase it. But it's fully worth it.I mean if someone stabbs you with a pike or a sword you really really want your chainmail works at that moment.

[@The1Helleri]

Butted Maille has it's place as functional and practical Armour. It's quicker to make and easier to repair. And for some purposes rivets don't really work out well. Like a tight mesh, small diameter, thick gauge Glove. When Maille gets small enough and thick enough. Rivets are not only nearly impossible, but no longer add any thing to the structural integrity. In modern use one good example of this is maille Gloves for Kitchen cutting. Now when talking about riveted Maille. The best pieces are going to be differential. On a coif for instance, you might have a 10 on 1 weave 14 gauge 8mm diameter for the dome of the skull, with one 12 gauge 15mm diameter ring at the very center where the weave radiates out from. But around the brow may be 4 on 1 weave, 16 gauge and 6mm diameter And by the time you get to the tail it can be 2 on one points, 18 gauge, with wire winding to finish the weave. But at the same time under the chin and along the jaw line might be the same as the brow. Leather lace bobbing through the links in certain places and patterns will give more rigidity to some areas as well. Like a running stitch over the brow line or a wreath stitch around the ears. All this serves to distribute weight correctly and force the Maille to actually sit in an always desirable way. (conforming to the shape of the head and not shifting about). That is what the best Maille looks like. Any and all sizing needed to have the precise desired effect. That's what your going to pay 10k for. Something that feels like a second skin. Like you were born wearing it and it grew with you.

[@jake_oliver]

Amazing video

[@michaelt.5672]

Galvanized chainmail, if worn regularly, will get rid of it's coating by itself, as the friction between the rings erodes the layer of zinc. The same effect takes care of rust, which is why you basically don't need to oil mail shirts if you use them regularly and store them properly.

[@boydgrandy5769]

Modern welding techniques should make welded ring mail the strongest type, and definitely cheaper than hand riveted mail. The only thing that comes to mind as an extra step in its manufacture would be the need to post weld heat treat that mail after the welding is complete. Assemble with butted rings, then use mig or tig welding (the inert gas would be necessary to prevent oxidation) to bond the rings at the butt joint. The heat input from the welding is what will require annealing after the welding of the mail is complete. No filler rod would be required, as the butted ring faces would provide the material for the bond when it melts from the heat of the welder current. Pretty much how they weld car bodies.

[@breechare]

I love the way you say aluminum dude. Sorry for the non serious comment.

[@borttormcpe4275]

It's technically the proper way to say it but how we say aluminum is correct here in America

[@the1exnay]

borttor MCPE By correct you mean everyone does it because they don't know better

[@dustinpowell5981]

It's neither correct nor incorrect....there is a spelling difference. Originally it was alumium, then aluminum, then aluminium. It was changed to aluminium to be more consistent with other elements.

[@Soils9000]

When my father was my age he made a butted maille tunic and coif. Now that I’m around the age he was when he made it, I decided to finish the set. I made butted maille chausses and leather fittings. I know it’s not historically accurate but there’s no way Im making riveted maille, simply because just butted maille took me 100+ hours to make two leggings. I love the idea of armour and I know it’s not actually armour but it looks sick all the same. So I am clearly not a reenactor, It’s just a costume. And im proud of it weather it’s accurate or not.

[@TemenosL]

Great video, Metatron! I would add one more category that I think you may have forgotten, which is SCA or very similar usage. In SCA, your armor *needs* to be functional and protective, but generally speaking, not historically accurate. It's like LARP, with actual protection necessary. (: Thanks for this video by the way, I needed help in defining the difference between mail types.

[@TemenosL]

***** I assumed a collector, by definition, would not necessarily intend to use them, or need them to be functional.

[@KanaiIle]

Oh, and a possible addition for your video: Punched rings. Riveted mail gets even sturdier when some of the rings are solid - usually punched from a plate. Sometimes this is even cheaper because using half solid rings makes mail easier to manufacture, as you don´t have to rivet every single link. But I´m not sure if that would be 100% historically accurate. You even mention punched rings in the beginning of your video but don´t deliver on it later. :>

[@DanTrue]

A slight correction: There is evidence for welded mail, e.g. Smith 1960 and Lang et al. 1992, though it is true that the conclusions are still open for some debate in the academic community. It is often hard to distinguish corroded rivets from welds in rings from punched solid rings. Vegard Vike in his 'Mail Weave' article does a nice summarisation of the above. Henriette Lyngstrøm (a Danish archaeologist) made experiments a few years ago, which showed that you could cold-weld rings made from bog-iron. Due to the low carbon content, you could essentially strike them or press them hard together (similar to closing a rivet) and get a weld. If you would like to, I can send you the articles though they are in Swedish and Danish respectively. I believe there exists a shortened version of the Vike article in english, which I may have somewhere. What IS true, is that none of the commercially available welded mail shows any resemblance to the historical examples of welds. So it's still rings true that reenactors should not buy it, but stick to riveted :)

[@stormstrider8455]

good info mate but you did not talk about mild steel or spring steel types. the ability to remove rings needs to be taking in to account with types of steel. then also you can also darken your steel down by heating it to get a darker effect..

[@PadraicSmith]

4:27 Suddenly gets much closer to the microphone. I'm not picking on it at all I just found it quite funny.

[@urbanmyths95]

great video although one minor nickpick my reenactment group and possibly other(although i don't know for sure) allow butted although rivetted is highly encouraged. Also i'd also mention ease of repair for example butted often needs more repair but is easier to repair(compared to rivetted). although the main reason we allow butted is because many of our members are students and want maille but can't spend alot of money

[@reinettestreasures6198]

I love your videos! I learn so much!!

[@metatronyt]

Thank you very much I'm glad to hear

[@spencert94]

Very informative, great video.

[@onurarikan3393]

Great video

[@pastorjustin419]

You said it a few times but never talked about punched armor. My understanding (and what I was looking for) is riveted armor with punched links mid-star

[@richardlayton7184]

I priced a suit of chain mail for myself. The suit is inspired by plate and may or may not be completely histrionically accurate. The suit includes a gambeson, padded coif, padded leggings, chain Hauberk (full sleeve), chain coif, leather gloves reinforced with chain and plate, chain mantle, chain chausses and heavy leather boots reinforced with chain and or plate. Total price for this suit of butted mail is around $1200. Still trying to convince the wife I need riveted but that is out of price range for now.

[@christophersilverberg3641]

Great video. Thank you!

[@kevinstachovak8842]

O Metatron, I bought 16 gauge Indian steel butted mail as a collector designing a display piece, and yeah riveted has that strength, but at a caveat: I've seen 20 gauge riveted mail, which is waaay too thin for actual protection. I've also seen aluminum riveted mail (obviously for larpers). If you want real armor, go with no less than 14 gauge steel riveted mail. It's heavy and expensive yeah but if you want historical accuracy...Edit: I guess I should've watched the whole video before commenting. You covered this well. .

[@OasisTypeZaku]

I bought some butted maille for a ren fair costume, and it's *not bad* but I wont buy any more. The rings like to come apart pretty easily and you have to reweave them back in because most manufacturers wont take it back unless you want to spend your cash to mail it. Get riveted or welded maille, the extra money spent is worth it.

[@-Zevin-]

Some of these Indian merchants are actually selling decent gauge riveted mail now for the $150 price range. I have bought items from India and been pleasantly surprised. Disproving the old "you always get what you pay for" They make the armors themselves and i am quite certain if you contacted some of these shops, for instance on Ebay, they would be willing to make custom sizes for a extra charge. Sill far cheaper than more expensive western alternatives. Do be warned however not all Indian made swords or armor are good quality, and the quality can vary drastically depending on who you buy from. So inconsistency is a problem and it's a gamble. One however in my case that has paid off well.

[@thomasmills3934]

There is another type of mail. The only kind im interested in. And thats authentic antique late middle age mail. It is possible to find authentic stuff out there. But get ready to pay...

[@hamptonhansen6498]

So if someone just wanted to buy a mail shirt as day to day armor what would be the optimal choice

[@iwantlee9510]

It would be interesting to see how modern top-tier chainmail used by police would have performed in medieval times against their mail.

[@cazek445]

Usually reenactment groups dont care if you have butted mail since its way easier to repair.

[@58singleman]

Has anyone tried making mail with Stainless Steel "split rings" that are available from fishing supply stores. The rings are available in a wide variety of sizes. Mail made of that type of material should have some very good protective qualities.

[@demetric4476]

Gratitude Megatron! Can you please recommend some great companies/armorers for good riveted mail ?

[@evita9284]

Mail is good armor as it allows the armpits to breathe or sweat through it.

[@daddyleon]

Thanks this helped me understand the difference between "buttered mail" (or "butted mail", as it's apparently actually called) and riveted mail :) 5:55 tsk tsk tsk. Not a banana for size...

[@Beardshire]

I have an aluminum maille shirt, and although I agree you shouldn't use it for combat, it took accidental sword blows without breaking.

[@Beardshire]

I usually wear steel linked maille over a gambeson, then over that I wear a tabbard, so you don't see the maille at all. My friend likes to take swings at me because the chain doesn't budge at all. I bought an aluminum one for walking around the park and visiting with people and things like that so it wouldn't weight as much(1/3 of the weight) He thought I was wearing steel and took swings at it. I had to repair 3 of the rings, but it didn't break. I'd like to add, I'd never wear this in combat, i felt the blows as with chain I feel nothing.

Very informative video! (Wish I'd seen it BEFORE I bought my mail....) :) Also, "glavanized mail" must be very warm 7:04 :P (Glava is a brand of RockWool insulation :P

[@PieterBreda]

Very well done

[@metatronyt]

+Pieter Batenburg Thanks Pieter ^^

[@Kargoneth]

What about maille that is composed of multiple overlapping and interlinked layers of rings? Three layers shoild be quite strong.

[@p3l1k44n1]

I'm a pink helmet with flowers attached to them collector. The axe one would be a fine addition to my collection.

[@brnkis1984]

thank you bro

[@kyleflanagan963]

I feel that I should make a note that I have also seen titanium mail for sale. It is usually quite expensive, and is billed as being as strong as steel (or stronger) but nearly as light as aluminium. I don't know if this is the case, but if their statements are accurate, then ti would of course only be good for collectors (unless you are a very wealthy LARPer and can throw away a lot of money on what is essentially overkill). Theoretically I suppose it would be very good armor if you were planning to use it as such. I HAVE seen people who buy mail and wear it around town and stuff, and they state that they do so because it looks cool but also because it'll protect them if someone pulls a knife on them...so I suppose it could have use in a very dangerous neighborhood.

[@Zamolxes77]

+Kyle Flanagan Well, titanium is as strong as steel, but lighter, so if they use same dimensions for the rings, a titanium mail would weigh about half what a steel one would. I think the correct numbers are about 60 %, but don't take my word on it, needs checking.

[@jdzencelowcz]

Depending on some factors, U could make the mail yourself, I saw a vid on making pretty good looking riveted mail that actually could protect.

[@cyrinaefox6828]

I've heard of mail that uses a combination of solid rings that were never open, and riveted rings to link them together. Is that historical at all, or just a modern concept?

[@papaburger]

Thanks for the info.

[@danielcombs7371]

About your comments towards Larpers: You have admitted/proudly stated your resistance to Larping, which is fine. -Larp combat, because of the lighter weapons and touch-based combat systems, is speed focused, so range of motion is essential. This range of motion causes areas of high stress (especially the armpits) of butted mail to pull loose; these areas need to be riveted or welded. -Round rings are far more comfortable to wear and move in than flat rings. A roll or somersault in round rings is no issue at all, while a roll in flat rings is incredibly awkward and even painful (this point is moot if you wear a thick enough gambeson). -Galvanized rings are a contact poison that leach out when you sweat, and should NEVER be worn over anything except a thick gambeson (not skin, not a T-shirt, , not even a thin gambeson).

[@lngvarck1970]

LARPers* Great video.

[@gamesexplorer2402]

i understand you point on butted mail. but (no punn intended) you also need to speak about metal type. different types of metal (steel) can change the strength of the chain. for me my first shirt was butted spring steel and it takes a great deal of energy plus tools to adjust it. other than that awesome vid. so go a bit in to metal types as spring steel is very strong and is an industry standard type.

[@SINCHIROCA07]

Have you made a similar video for helmets? Specifically Templar knight specific stuff. If you haven't please do. That would be great. Thank you

[@aaronalfer2615]

What are the differences between flat and round rings in terms of functionality??

[@ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique]

If you want something that lasts. Riveted is the way to go 👏

[@mergenocide]

Its a crime you don't have more subs.

[@peterlee9691]

A good weld in general can be as strong or stronger than the host metal. Not historically accurate but if done right perhaps the best choice.

[@wonniethepoop7856]

4:50 - Welded mail didn't exist But what would you tell about combination of welded and riveted rings? I don't think it's harder to weld a ring than to forge a nail. Also, I suppose welded rings are stronger than riveted, though not sure about it.

[@davidrice2622]

I like your video and I know how KZbin does it's algorithms so I'm leaving a comment also

[@karstenschuhmann8334]

Dear Metatron, all mail, I see in the Internet and on your presentation, make use of round and planar rings. These are easy to produce, but as an Engineer, I know it is far from optimized to take force. Here a nonplanar ring having a small bending radius at the position where it meets other rings and strait wire in between could take considerable more force before it is deformed. In addition, this design would increase density. Where armors of this type used?

[@NotMeButAnother]

I noticed you didn't mention weave patterns at all, neither the ring connection patterns nor the direction of the pattern nor in fact that historical mail armour would often have differing density at different parts of the body. I believe Lindybeige mentions this last one in the video where he shows off his byrnie? Did you leave this out, because most retailers don't offer these options? I know I've at least seen one that offers mail armour in both directions, although I think it was only an option for butted mail.

[@25Letifer]

As someone who was nearly stabbed to death have you any suggestions on web sites that sell a mail vest that can take an attack and keep you safe.

[@gabrieltomas8976]

1:25 where does the image come from!? Gorgeous.

[@juangonzalez9848]

Another option for type of material is stainless. We made one out of spring stainless steel and boy did we bleed. With galvanized we could work for an effectively unlimited amount of time, i.e. More the 6 hours at a sitting. With the spring stainless anything over 2 hours would leave you with blisters at the beginning. Eventually calluses formed and we could get up to 4 hours of weaving, but fingers usually started to bleed by that point. Yes it's not as good as riveted, but it is not nearly as weak as mild butted steel.

[@jerome96114]

Even as a larper riveted mail is worth to be looked into, since otherwise you will often lose rings over time, which sucks. And hand welded mail DID EXIST historically, even though it was not very prevalent. And I never heard of aluminium mail breaking from other larpers, especially the riveted mail. Only sometimes bended when people were stupid enough to hit it with anything else than latex swords.

[@metatronyt]

+jerome96114 Among other things I and a friend of mine own aluminium butted and it opens all the time ;)

[@jerome96114]

+Metatron Oh that could be the reason. All people I know personally that use aluminium shirts have riveted ones.

[@Tk3997]

Properly made welded is straight up superior to riveted possibly by a factor as large as twice. If for no other reason then that welding allows the use of higher tensile steels in the shirt. I'm not sure where you're even getting this 'soder' stuff from, the steel rings are simply directly spot welded together. Ideally with a form of lap weld where in the ends of the link are stacked atop each other and welded both top and bottom effectively doubling thickness at the point of connection. A welded mail shirt made of higher hardness steel particularly one that use lap welds is just flat out superior to riveted mail mechanically. This is no great shock, their is a reason welding more or less completely displaced rivets in structural steel systems once it was perfected.