C-Kites Vs Everything - Versus Ep 03 - MACkiteboarding.com

We’ve been getting a surprising number of requests for C-Kite comparisons. The North Vegas vs the North Rebel, The Cabrinha Chaos vs the Cabrinha FX. With that said, I’ve decided to first do a video focused specifically on all C - Kites in general and who they are for.
There are three types of people riding C-kites right now.
Riders who have been using them since the early days of the sport when they were the only option.
Riders who are competing in the PKRA and making a living off of
kiteboarding.
And lastly, riders who are holding themselves back.
I’m probably going to put people up in arms on this topic. So, let’s clear something up.
If you’re using C - kites, you're progressing and having a lot of fun, this video isn’t necessarily for you. So who is this video for?
It’s for that rider who just started doing tricks or unhooking. Maybe you’re getting pretty good, and you’re looking land your first handle pass. You might even have a lot of the basic advanced freestyle tricks dialed. Point being, There are a lot of trade offs for the raw performance of a C-kite and at the end of the day, it’s up to you to decide if they are worth it.
Now, of course, all C - kites have their differences. Some are more aggressive, some are more forgiving. They range from 4 line to 5 line or even 6 lines. Some iterations have optional micro bridles like different generations of the Slingshot Fuel. Some are pretty hardcore like the Hadlow Vegas. Point being, C - kites have a few certain traits in common. Namely, they are built for a single purpose. Getting the maximum pop and slack out of your kite.
Common traits are
Very direct heavy bar pressure.
Instantaneous feedback.
Fast & powerful kite loops.
And lastly, explosive pop and slack.
Now, that all sounds pretty great right?
Let’s talk about what you give for this performance.
Reduced wind range
Less forgiving.
Learning to relaunch takes time and skill.
Riding upwind takes time and skill.
If the wind gets gusty they don’t have that much depower.
Basically, every little thing you do with your body, your board your hands, it’s going to influence the kite. So for advanced riders, this is great. For the rest of us, it’s a lot easier to progress on more forgiving kites. And there are a lot of options to chose from. Most of which aren't going to hold you back.
Now, I’m not knocking C-kites. They are really fun in the right conditions. But if you think big picture, and you look where you’re at in your riding. 90% of us are going to progress a lot faster if we have a kite that rocks you upwind, a kite that relaunches effortlessly. A kite that’s more forgiving in rough conditions. And that’s the point I’d like to drive home.
So what kites should you be looking at?
Let’s break down some of the different style kites out there. You have all around kites like the Cabrinha Switchblade, the North Evo. All around kites that push the freestyle side the Slingshot RPM, the Liquid Force Envy. There are performance freestyle kites that cross over into the freeride all around such as the Cabrinha FX, The North Dice, The Naish Dash.
For most riders, going for an all around kite is the ticket. Let’s take the Envy for example, Brandon Scheid rides this kite and he rips. Check out some of his videos online. The same goes for the RPM. 2 time world champion Yuri Zoon ride this kite. Point being here, these guys are some of the best in the world and their not held back by riding an all around kite.
I just want to reiterate. I’m not knocking C-kites. I have friends who prefer them. There is something addicting about that raw performance. At the end of the day, kiteboarding about having fun. So my advice here is to pick the gear that you’re going to have the most fun on. If Raw performance is what you’re after yeah, ride a C-kite they're awesome! If you’re a weekend warrior or trying to progress into advanced tricks you might want to check out some other options. If you’re debating this, feel free to give us a call and we’ll be happy to chat about it. 800 - 622 - 4655
I hope this helped clear somethings up. Like I always say, this is an open forum so let me know your thoughts. If you're someone who loves C-kite tell us what you’re using and why you love it in the comments! This whole series is about getting a conversation going.
Special thanks to Craig Cunningham and Colleen Carroll for the additional footage.
Learn about Craig here:
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Learn about Colleen Here:
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Check out the 2017 Envy Here:
• 2017 LFK NV
Check out the 2017 RPM Here:
• SLINGSHOT 2017 RPM - T...
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[@jsnowbrien]

When I got into kiteboarding I convinced myself that I should buy a High aspect kite meant for intermediate to Advanced Riders because I've been doing board sports my whole life so naturally I would progress past the beginner stage quickly. That was a bad decision. It's been 16 years since I started and I still prefer kites meant for beginner to intermediate kiters. A kite that's easy to fly, stable , slightly slower turning and shorter lines gives me way more confidence.

[@MACkiteboarding]

I hear you! It's common for people who are more advanced at other sports to fail to realize just how important flying the kite is in kiteboarding.

[@CrystalVeness]

So true Rygo! I loved my C kites when I had one, but finding that 'goldilocks' day when the wind was just right was a challenge, so I missed out on a lot of sessions. Stoked to be on the hybrid North Dice now!

[@MACkiteboarding]

Yew! Love the Dice. I'm a little jealous of your quiver right now. - Rygo

[@cri66124]

Been riding the North Vegas C-kite for over 2 years now and haven't looked back since. Living in a place with super flat water for unhooked freestyle as well as waves for huge boosts and loops - no other kite compares in my opinion.

[@MACkiteboarding]

When you have perfect conditions and the right skills, nothing compares! -Rygo

[@alter7181]

This new series is simply excellent. Glad to see mackite adding more great content.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Thanks my friend! -Rygo

[@alter7181]

MACkiteboarding literally the only downside is seeing how much kiting I'm not getting to do where I live. :)

[@MACkiteboarding]

I hear you! Now that it's getting cold here time our sessions are getting shorter and shorter. Where do you ride? - Rygo

[@alter7181]

NYC. There are plenty of people who make good use of the gusty winter winds and are confident in the frigid waters. I'm at the just-going-upwind level and I'm not able to take advantage of many of the spots just yet. In time though... and there's a very nice community in NY.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Right on, I've ridden there before with the NY Kite center crew. You have an awesome community and some really sick spots there. There are so many little slicks to be found between there and New Jersey. -Rygo

[@markhazard3176]

I’ve been riding a RPM as an intermediate for a while now, but I struggle to progress. I love the direct feedback, easy relaunch out of the water and ease of turning. However simply going upwind remains a struggle for me, getting fatigued and frustrated at the end of my sessions with having to do yet another ‘walk of shame’ upwind. My RPM is now starting to show small ruptures at the trailing edge. I’m getting her fixed but is it perhaps time to switch to something more like a Switchblade?

[@MACkiteboarding]

Hey, there-great question, my friend. 🤙🏽 This one would best be handled with a phone call. Got a moment to chat? [phone]

[@jamesanna7061]

I have been riding a 2012 Switchblade since 2012. I recently demoed a 2019 Evo. I loved the Evo. I felt like the Evo turned faster but I was comparing a 12M Switchblade to a 9M Evo. For my next kite I want something with the same wind range and flexibility as the Switchblade but turns much faster. Will the Evo be a good next kite?

[@galzohar]

What that said, would love to see a comparison (with focus on freestyle/wakestyle) between the different hybrid C kites, such as the Dice, FX and GTS4. It's hard to find someone experienced enough in wakestyle with enough experience on all of those kites.

[@sherlockkush8154]

I did try alot of different kites over the years but my favourite pic became a 2007 JN Prima Donna without the 5th line I just love the raw feeling it brings and I ride it from 20-30+ kn just amazing jumping potential (if u seek the rush and have some years of experience I can only recommend you to get a old c shaped kite as they feel really nice) also it takes alot of impact without braking trust me. if you are new don't reed this comment

[@sarpyazgan3502]

I just bought a naish torch 2020,what are your toughts about the kite?

[@MACkiteboarding]

Recently I’ve fallen in love with c’s haha. If you’re riding upwind, can do basic freestyle, want to focus 💯 on unhooked and don’t mind dealing with slightly tougher relaunch then nothing can compete. Torch is a classic and hasn’t changed or needed to change in a decade. The low end is lacking from what everyone says but it pops underpowered so. Enjoy! - Rygo

[@sergemann5951]

Hey guys. Im an intermediate rider, always been on RPM original version not the new one. I currently purchased a foil. Its moses 633, my question is how is RPM for foiling. I can't afford a new kite right now so only going with my trusty 7m RPM. What should I expect from this kite on foil? I know its not the best for foiling but I have no choice right now. Can I progress with them on a foil or do they set me back? Thanks

[@MACkiteboarding]

Hi Serge, I’m foiling on the rpm right now. It’s no surf kite but it gets the job done! Blake learned on the Fx haha. You’ll be fine learning with one. - Rygo

[@sergemann5951]

@@MACkiteboarding and thats why you're my favorite kiter/vloger Rygo. You given me a lot of confidence. Keep up the good work!

[@DDICyber]

i was a biginner and my first kite was a north rebel but when i starts riding i m swapped to the north vegas c kite and that was amazing now this days i m only use the north vegas

[@MACkiteboarding]

Yew! Love that kite. Always amazing when you are ready for the switch. - Rygo

[@samuelsmithmed214]

Kinda like learning tricks on straps vs boots though, if you learn to ride a C-kite well starting off then you can easily ride anything else. Just like if you learn tricks on straps then putting the boots on will make it 1000x easier, which is why I prefer C-kites. Yeah there are days where your wind range gets screwy and you have to pump two kites, but unhooking on one is unparalleled.

[@Peachez54]

Very well done video, this one. I love C-types (bridled C) The Blade HighScore has impressive traits that I like. I prefer C-types that free-ride well, are forgiving, and have an impressive wind range and efficiency. That’s a nice mix with a C-feel

[@MACkiteboarding]

Thanks my friend! Agreed, I enjoy kites that incorporate elements of C-kites but don't have all the trade offs.

[@niklasweinmann393]

I ride the Northkiteboarding Vegas (13; 11; 9) I love the kite cause this kite does everything what i want, its like wakeboarding. And with the TS Hadlow + 2017 noth boot you shred like god. Makes so much fun. I love boots in light and in strong wind, cause you have so much board controll and you never lose your board during handlepasses,... (You will never hurt you ankle too😄) My smallest kite is the Northkiteboarding Dice (7) you can boost big and i think its a better choice in stronger winds as the vegas. Thumbs up!👍🏽

[@MACkiteboarding]

Niklas Weinmann Nice quiver! Thanks for sharing. I like your logic on the smaller kite. I usually go for a more delayed kite in hectic winds too. Happy holidays my friend. - Rygo

[@niklasweinmann393]

MACkiteboarding thank you! You also happy holidays😊

[@3rd_coast223]

I started on Naish x2s and north rhino 2s and those were some hard kites to fly and relaunch but man were they awesome and had pop and launch for days. With that said i have not been on a C kite since. Bridled kites are the way to go in my opinion...but would love a chance to fly a C kite of today...it may change my mind, like some other comments below the C kites of today are probably nothing like an x2 or rhino 2. Good video guys.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Thanks for the comment! Yeah, C kites that are currently in production are quite different than those you mentioned. They're quite refined, yet still have the aggressive feel that C kite lovers enjoy. That said, they're becoming less and less popular with the advent of the "open C" category, like the RPM, Dice, FX, etc.

[@3rd_coast223]

i would agree that the open C design is more popular and for good reason as i think that the design allows for better wind range with the wider canopy. the only open C design i have flown was the RPM and i was not that impressed honestly. i rode RPMs for over a year and switched to the "standard" (i guess) bridled design...more of big air (Switch Nitro and Best TS) style and that seems to soot me best these days. but again i would love to try another C-kite. thanks for the reply.

[@MACkiteboarding]

RPM's are great - you'll have to get your hands on a Dice or FX now! I think you'll be pleasantly surprised...

[@kitesurferjoey]

Been riding 20,years now at start cabrinha black tip then naish raven then slingshot fuel then north vegas then we went to first type bow kites the cabrinha switchblade but never liked them they alway keep backstalling in unhooked more then c kites now on ozone c4 feels difrent then the full c kite but with bridles you can hold them really long really like them

[@timvandennoort5441]

It needs to be said though that c-kites in these times are alot more forgiving and useable than 10 years ago. I get the feeling that alot of people think that c-kites are still these 'bulldog killingmachines lou wainman style no depower'. That's far from true in my opinion. My girlfriend, an beginner/intermediate loves my c-kites because of the direct feeling and quick respons. I wonder how much different a kite like the cabrinha FX of the Best TS really is compared to the vegas, GP, fuel, etcetc.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Tim van den noort That's a great point. I should have addressed that in the video. Modern C-kites are much safer than the early days. As an instructor for 6 years, I've found that new riders learn much faster on all around kites. Even small differences like more delay and a larger wind range helps significantly. That said, with all modern kites it's possible to learn on most models. That's awesome your girlfriend likes C-Kites. It should be noted that everyone has different preferences and there is no one size fits all logic. It's all about what works for the individual. Regarding the differences between true C-kites and kites like the FX, it's like having a slight delay in the kite, not as direct, less bar pressure and easier to relaunch, especially for riders who don't know how to flip the kite on it's back. I personally prefer kites like the FX as do many of my friends at the shop. However, I do have some friends who are far more skilled than myself at unhooked tricks and they prefer C-kites Hands down. Cheers! -Rygo

[@galapunk]

HI! i want to change from LF ENvy to a maniaC 11.55mts, its a good choice? maniaC have a good relaunch? im afraid for taht... sory foy my english.. :)

[@MACkiteboarding]

Hi Jorge, I'm not super familiar with the Manaic C. I know Wainman makes good kites and I'v heard good things. From checking the kite out on the site it looks like a very traditional C kite. Everything I addressed in the video applies here. It just comes down to what trade offs you are willing to make. The Envy is a good kite, depending on the year. 2015 and up, rides upwind well, relaunches well, the 2018 NV is good for freestyle as it will shoot to the edge of the wind window and produce some slack. A classic C kite like the Manaic C, will perform awesome for freestyle but I can only suspect the trades offs are great. It just comes down to what you want out of your ride my friend. Cheers! -Rygo

[@galapunk]

thanks friend! It is difficult to take the step to the new / different, greetings from Argentina!

[@marcosm893]

Great video!! I love the vegas, it provides great slack and pop and it is a very good combination with the wakestyle bar

[@MACkiteboarding]

Thanks Og!. Yes the Vegas is legendary at this point.

[@WakeboardinBlueNight]

Rygo, I would love to talk to you about 2 C kites that I got in a package deal from someone leaving the sport. I'm not sure whether to use them, sell them or just get rid of them? Thanks man.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Hey Sean, looks like I missed this one. Sorry about that. How long have you been riding and what year / model are the kites? - Rygo

[@kshred3043]

Who is the rider doing the toe side pop beginning at 4:32 ?

[@MACkiteboarding]

K Shred That is Craig Cumningham from North. He rips. Check out some of his edits. - Rygo

[@Leoskiteexp]

I have the ozone c4 and I love it

[@TiagoRuivo]

Never understood the difference between wakestyle and freestyle. Aren't they the same????

[@MACkiteboarding]

More or less they're the same. It's pretty subjective. Some people like call some hooked in tricks freestyle, while others like to consider wakestyle anything unhooked that mimics wake boarding. I like to think of freestyle as free, so anything trick wise can be considered freestyle while doing wakeboarding tricks is wakestyle to me. But that's just my opinion on the matter.

[@galapunk]

Good video! I'm migrating from envy to another kite, I do not want slack, but if good hang time and fast loops, maybe to do oldschool tricks, I was watching the maniac but I can not decide, any suggestions?

[@Pete_R63]

Okay, I have to say it, what is the difference between a 'C' kite and any other? To me, someone who wants to kiteboard badly, they all look like the letter 'C', so what are you talking about? What does it all mean. Take it back to square zero because I guess I am not the target audience for this material.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Peter Rozboril I thought about breaking down the difference but this video was a response to some video requests. A C-kite is a kite where the control bar lines connect directly to the wing tips. They have deeper canopies as well. Where as hybrid or bow kites have lines connected to the kite called a bridle. Sometimes with a pulley system. The control bar lines connect to this and it gives the kite more range and a bit of delay in the steering impulse. Shoot me an email at [e-mail] and I'd be happy to answer any other question you have about kiteboarding. Cheers! -Rygo

[@Pete_R63]

Thank you, very interesting. I have been dying to get into kiteboarding for about 3 years now ever since I was inspired by a Damien Leroy video. Went as far as to talk to him a couple times on the phone (greatest guy). I am in the Atlanta, GA area and want to find out where I can go with good consistent conditions and where to go for training. Every summer I go to the north shore of Jamaica around Runaway Bay and scuba and the wind is always honking steady side on shore and I have never seen anyone kiting in those perfect conditions. I snowboard and wakeboard a little and used to windsurf and think I may pick this up fairly quickly. Just need to find a place.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Opps, I missed this reply when it came in. Yes, Damien is a legend. I used to watch his videos when I first started myself. He's inspiring, authentic, and friendly! Aside from the fact that he rips. If you already practice those board sports you are ahead of the curve. For you, it would just come down to getting a lesson focused on safety and putting time in on the kite. If you need help finding a spot to practice give me a call and I'll show you what aps to use and how to sus out a good location. I can also help you find a school to link up with in your area. 800 622 4655 -Rygo

[@KillGuest]

I ride the ozone edge and flysurfer speed 5, which are kind of in the category of 'big-air high performance kites'. I like the way they are powerhouses that drag you upwind and into the sky for boosting. I've been riding for just over 1,5 years now and I love these kites, they suit me well and I like the oldschool style that they are often used for. I have never tried a c-kite, and I am very curious about this raw power that you're talking about. I enjoy this power a lot, but it must be a very different sort of power because these kites are very different compared to what I have, and are used for very different styles of kiteboarding. Can anyone comment on the difference between these kinds of power? Both kites perform greatly in their segment but I'd love to know more about the difference in power and performance.

[@Jakkillah]

Well I ride the Vegas now, but tried many of other Cs and have had some foil or performance kites in my hands, but not much, not for long. Not my thing. It moves lazy and seems boring to me. I think it is almost an opposite of a C-kite. C-kite is not a powerhouse, it has smaller area that is generating the lift than Edge, but has more area(pull) while angling to the wind-turning. So your kind of kite is more hanging in the air and pulling all the time. When you jump you just hang under it forever. C-kite will shoot you up quickly if you know how to, but also drop you quickly. Very often you will need to fly it up and down to generate enough pull to go upwind or get power to make some trick. Upwind is much more difficult than on performance kites. Low end is a nightmare on a C-kite for me. High end is the fun. So the raw power in a C-kite is not really a good way to describe it. It is much more aggressive in a very short period of time (good for pop) rather than steady pull and strength of a performance kite.But the feeling of having playful kite that I can force to generate huge amounts of pull and it reacts immediately to my input is what I like about it. I have three kites now, could use four. :) Hope it helps?

[@KillGuest]

Helps greatly! That is a great explanation, thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I think what you say is spot-on, the lazy movement (but with more general power) is what suits my style and that is what I like about these kites. It is great to hear how different kiters enjoy different styles and that the c-shape kite suits your style so well. Both kites have their disadvantages, and still we seem both equally happy with them. I will try a c-shape kite as soon as i get the chance, and who knows, I might enjoy direct response and playfulness and pop power on demand of that too!

[@Jakkillah]

KillGuest Exactly, just give it a try if you have a chance. Also C kites are the best kites when they are just in their sweet spot in the wind range, low end sucks. I am usually on a size larger than most people. But since there is slightly less depower, you must be experienced a bit before you try it when you are close to the high end. Need to know how to release the power properly via board edging. I assume you know that though.

[@KillGuest]

I do know that indeed, thanks for the tips. The foilkites that I ride from flysurfer are quite the opposite, they have a windrange that works really well in the low-end all the way up to the high end, for example, I ride the 15m2 from 8 to 22 knots.. There also it is important to work the power into the edge of the board, otherwise you'll be a bouncing ball on the water. I imagine the c-shape kites to have a narrower range, but a sweeter sweetspot so to say. I will definitely keep an eye on upcoming testdays in the area

[@danhaag70s]

Jakkillah, thanks, this is a really good explanation of the difference between a C and Performance kite. Thanks man!

[@terezasimonova90]

Awesome video. I have been riding vegas for past three years and from the first moment I touched them it just felt like that is how kite should fly and feel super direct and love the power. Do not think they are for very advanced riders especially these days. The only downside I found is the fifth line as amazing as it is for relaunch and stability my heart always stops when it wraps around the kite and I am just praying not to kill it which I must admit holds me back in trying more things especially in wavy spots where there is little time to relaunch before kite gets eaten by the wave like Cape Town.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Tereza Simonova Thanks for the great feedback. You're totally right, about modern C-kites. A few people have brought this up now and I wish I had mentioned it.They are much more friendly than 10 years ago. I feel the same way about 5th lines. They always make me nervous when I drop the kite. The Vegas is basically legendary at this point and I've often thought of using one. That said, I've come to really appreciate all the options available based on the conditions that day. Keep on shredding my friend. - Rygo

[@danhaag70s]

Really helpful, thanks!

[@MACkiteboarding]

Daniel Peters you got it! Are you considering going for a C-kite my friend? - Rygo

[@danhaag70s]

@MACkiteboarding on "everything else" kites now and coming 2018 season. But definitely interested to get some C experience this year too. Really appreciate your vlogs.

[@MrLK97]

I'm not too much into wake and freestyle but I use C-Kites because I love that direct feel. In the EU they are so much cheaper tho. My 2015 Chaos cost me 400$ new.

[@dalecarter3253]

Anyone tried an Ozone amp.And how do you rate it.

[@MACkiteboarding]

None of us have used any Ozone kites. I checked it out online, it looks like it has a lot of potential to be a great freestyle kite. I often hear good things about the brand but I've no first hand experience on that particular kite. Cheers - Rygo

[@surfa05]

Hi !...I've used my Amp 9m and it's great to go big and do kiteloops(that's the reason I buyed...)...I'm 95kg....so for me it's a 30+ knots kite...otherwise I go for edge10m to go just big or I go Enduro 14m to unhook....or play around with surfboard or to learn hydrofoil....!😊

[@rotatopoti]

Aaron Johnson looks like Vanilla Ice.

[@MACkiteboarding]

rotatopoti Bahaha! I am texting him a screenshot of this. Made my morning. 😂😂😂 - Rygo

[@playgirls1075]

"c kites just hold you back in performance" true and simple description

[@theplaceforfun1524]

I live in Ohio I've been riding slingshot fuels for 16 years. I've tried SLE and bow kite and I always go back to Fuels I think I like them because they are very aggressive kite and they take awhile to get used to and they have their downfalls but I still love riding them

[@MACkiteboarding]

The Fuel is a sick kite. I've got one in my car on deck just waiting for the right day to pull it out. -Rygo

[@adrianhart367]

Coming from a guy wearing a Cabrinha shirt......... do they even have a c kite? C kites are great in surf as well. Love my Vegas and razor in waves because of the direct feeling and ability to gain or shut off power immediately, just have to have the ability to fly them. They are superior kites in every manor except relaunch.......and if you are in strong wind the #oceanrodeorazor reverse relaunches like a dream.

[@kosolapovlev6029]

6 years ago I was progressing fast and decided to buy Cabrinha Chaos as my main kite. That was the worst decision I ever made - this kite sucks in every possible way, it behaves badly in russian gusty lightwinds, and as a result my progress completely stopped. After 1.5 yrs of this shit I quit kiteboarding, because it was no more fun for me. Don't do this.

[@MACkiteboarding]

Bummer! Yep, there is always a right time and place to make the switch! When I made this video I was 100 percent using crossover kites. Now I much prefer a c if I can get my hands on one. - Rygo

[@sherlockkush8154]

... if someone wants to sell a old prima Donna 7m with bar (preferred a newisch model ) comment back ;-)

[@WakeboardinBlueNight]

I've got 2 mint condition old school C kites up for sale with bars! Give me a shout if your interested.