C-PTSD AND THE COLLAPSE/SUBMIT RESPONSE: WHAT IS MY TRAUMA TYPE? (SERIES)

[@cannibalcatgirl]

That segment at the end of this about resistant depression is so true. I’ve found I’ll get inspired to build better habits but over time I unconsciously slide back into my bad habits. It’s very discouraging as I don’t even notice it happening it’s so gradual. Doing better for a week is easy, holding on to good habits and re-wiring yourself for life feels like being dropped in gladiator ring for me

[@wmd40]

Collapse makes me feel like I'm legit dying. I feel like i have nothing left. I am almost 32 and i get pulled out of it but it's getting worse bc I didn't take care of it. I have been pushing it down and pretending my PTSD isn't that bad in order to make my (ex)fiance feel better. But I was wrong. I'm not okay and my c-PTSD is legit ruined my physical health. I can't communicate with anyone anymore bc of him. I have shut down and collapsed for the past year and been begging him for help and he's just blamed and ignored me. It's triggered me so much bc it's happening at my doctor's and also what happened in childhood. My mom ignored how i felt and blamed me. He knows this stuff and he's still doing it. So it's over and i am feeling a lot of relief already. I don't feel as much pressure in my chest because even though I'm not doing much different, the fact i don't have to worry about his feelings has made me feel much more capable of dealing with my own issues. (i still feel like i am responsible for his feelings tho sometimes, it's a process i must unlearn)

[@djer05010401]

I've had panic attacks that result in loss of consciousness since I was five years old. No physicians or mental health professional ever mentioned anything about it being a trauma response. I am so relieved to have this type of information now so that I can better understand and heal these dorsal vagal responses. Thank you so much for spending time discussing this information. I wish more people understood how our nervous systems impact our responses and relationships.

[@hollyfabiani]

Me too! And I use vasoconstrictors as well. The damn vagus nerve! Will probably kill me one day, as vascular dementia runs in the family. Ketamine therapy helps with this. I feel ya.

[@willow6726]

The collapse response is my dominate feature with my trauma. I have literally been collapsing with these overwhelming, flooded physical/mental sensations for 15 years now. I am thankful answers are finally available. Im also a fawner and freezer. I will go into freeze mode, at the same time the fight or flight is kicked in which is horrifying. I feel trapped in a body that I can't operate or move to safety. A therapist told me it was like pressing the gas pedal and the brake pedal at the same time in a car. I really appreciate your videos. They're very helpful! I hope to someday not suffer with the symptoms.

[@willow6726]

While in the collapsed phase, I will lay nearly lifeless, while panic attacks hammer me back to back. I have concluded that this has to be some form of Hell.

[@singlaankush777]

hey, how are you doing ? have you found any way to get better when in a collapsed state?

[@willow6726]

@@singlaankush777 not yet, but still learning a lot that I feel well be helpful. I am with a trauma therapist who is doing "parts" work with me. She believes I have DID. Three years ago, I moved next to a relative of mine who gifted me a piece of land. It was only after about 5 months of living beside this person that repressed memories started to flood me about them. They were also one of my sexual perpetrators when I was very young. So i have a complex Iiving situaltion that feels maddening and keeps my symptoms highly activated. I will say that I am gaining tons of insight on to why my body responds this way. I make a conscious effort to feel connected to other "safe" individuals to help with co-regulation. I intentionally move my body thru exercise or just slow movements when I can feel the freeze setting in. But for this chapter of my life, I have mostly accepted that functional dissociated freeze may be necessary until I have clarity on how to protect myself and see the path moving forward of how to escape my current living situation.

[@cristinawilliams8026]

Thankyou! I diagnosed myself with learned helplessness in this kind of collapse because I couldn’t rationalize it. I felt like I might have to get out of my body to kick myself off of the chair I was meditating on. It happened due to my complete lack of understanding of the seriousness of my state. It’s true…we want so badly to get better. It feels like your body is in a massive energy drain, exhausted within minutes of even walking. I was not able to solve this on my own, regardless of the research I did because I had blind spots. I went to a trauma therapist at a place called AUM in Dallas, TX and they were able to help.

[@rottedbug]

i'd never heard of Collapse Response until today. thank you for sharing information like this with us. i am most definitely a Collapser, and that developed helplessness is what i'm trying to distinguish from actual support needs (late diagnosed Autistic here)

[@mailill]

I had a friend when I was studying who actually had falling asleep on the spot as her trauma response. I remember seeing it with my own eyes on one occation when somebody sitting behind us (a person who had had some head injuries after an accident and had lost her "filter" and could say very mean things, and who probably also didn't understand how loud she was talking as her hearing was somewhat impaired) started to say very hurtful things about my friend's body and weight. And my friend immediately fell asleep. Afterward she told me very matter-of-factly that it was a reaction to the bullying from the other girl.

[@KarmasAbutch]

Thank you for telling your friends story - after a lifetime of being stuck in freeze / hyper-vigilance I began with this “fall asleep” issue after chronic bullying from a psychopath CEO at work / collided with other unexpected life events beyond my control, so all areas lost stability at the same time, with no solutions. I can tell you it’s the best quality sleep of my life but so inconvenient because it’s instantaneous and overwhelming. You feel suddenly drugged with anesthesia. A therapist pointed it out. ("i see you keep falling and staying asleep in our sessions until I call your name - which concerns me as that is a Trauma Response) 😂 ironic - as I only fell asleep when she talked - while listening to her offer stupid, irresponsible “solutions” to catastrophic life events that everyone else could see were complex and out of my own hands. She caused the COLLAPSE RESPONSE for the first time ever in my life - then accurately pinpointed what it was, and where it fell in the four F’s she had taught me (fight flight freeze faint/feign death) I still have very mixed feelings about this as it was as damaging as it is hilarious! 😂 Once that door was opened … it stayed open. Thanks for explaining what kind of damage you did though bad therapist 🥴👍 Ya can’t make this stuff up lol

[@mailill]

​@@KarmasAbutch Thank you for sharing your very interesting experiences! I am sad about your trauma and that the therapist actually caused that reaction, but the collapse response is such an interesting way our body/mind protects us from too much stress. I hope you got a better therapist afterwards. 🤗 And it reminded me that two of my own therapists (in my early twenties) triggered a trauma reaction that I usually don't experience anywhere else: Selective mutism. (Even in freeze mode, I am usually able to speak if I have to). With those therapists I was in some instances not able to speak even though I really wanted to. The first therapist told me that according to his method my silence was not a problem and he should just sit silent and wait until I was ready, but that he started to feel (and rightly so) it was not good for me with the whole session being silent, so he started to tell me about his own childhood and difficult relationship with his father. He also wanted to take me and my mother (I suspect he had a crush on her, and the two of them actually low key "dated" when I was his patient) to a Catholic miracle site (Medjugorje) in another country, and also once said my problem might be caused by too little religious faith (and I was such a deeply - downright fanatically - religious young woman at the time, which didn't help me at all). The other therapist became angry with me when I on a few occasions (not as a rule) was suddenly unable to answer a question and became involuntarily mute, and she immediately threatened to stop treating me because "I can't work with someone who doesn't talk". She seemed to interpret it as aggression, but it was fear. Ah well. therapists! 😂😂 I did at last find a therapist who could actually help, she was a nurse, down to earth and with common sense and years of experience.

[@DrKimSage]

Hi loveys! Sorry this is late today! xo. Hope you find it helpful!!!

[@DrKimSage]

here are some links to the graphics! www.nicabm.com/the-difference-between-freeze-and-shutdown-trauma-responses/ and www.nicabm.com/four-key-ways-collapse-submit-can-present-in-clients/

[@PurpleGlobe]

I've had severe depersonalization for 6 months now. I feel like I'm finally starting to understand it better. THanks.

[@lindahuser866]

Thank you for always being so kind and understanding when it comes to how it actually feels to do those things that some people find simple / basic like going on a walk... I consciously know that I need to connect with others or get out of the house but it feels impossible inside. Thank you for understanding that :) and for your advice, I love your videos

[@iceriahikari4707]

My relationship with my ex made me experience triggers that are Fawn and Freeze. Freeze eventually turned to Collapse. I couldn't swallow food, kept vomitting and had multiple panic attacks that results to fainting. Furthermore, the Fawn response made me sacrifice myself even more to the point where I had to leave lest I might be taken to the hospital. I'm so grateful for my family and friends who help me out. When I am not sure of decisions, I consult them and they encourage me in saying No to things and they also point out whenever I'm relapsing to becoming a people pleaser. Sometimes my sister will say no on behalf of me so I won't sacrifice my health. My family and friends also helped in getting out of the Collapse response. I eat lunch together with my friends, go out and have dinner dates with them. My family is helping me out in finding doctors to help with my eating issues. Luckily, I can eat now, but still vomit twice a week. I am having a skin care routine to remind myself of taking care. Saying no to things is still a struggle. I have gone back to old hobbies I have left due to my fawn response.

[@silverlagomorpha3177]

In passing: “Stand up straight” smack in shoulder, keep walking.

[@Mysticstoolbox]

Thank you so much for doing this video. I have had "attacks" of what I've always felt was being shutdown since I was in 3rd grade. (My first memory of having an attack.) It can happen at any time, not necessarily during a stressful event, but anxiety is a big trigger. During an attack, I feel extremely drunk without the giddiness. Meaning, I stagger at first and then cannot walk. I can't control my motor movements at all, and my limbs feel light. I slur my words. I've never fainted, but my consciousness is altered in that I feel kind of detached from my body. I know everything that's happening around me when I have an attack, but I cannot respond to it. And it seems hazy like a dream in some respects. The attack can last well over an hour. So, yes, I'm "hypoaroused", as everything in my body slows down. I can't feel my heartbeat and I barely breathe. I'm 61 now, and since I never got help for this condition, my attacks have become more frequent and morphed into a panic disorder, as I'm constantly afraid to do things for fear I'll have an attack. You have explained this condition SO well.

[@_cr8ive_]

How ate you doing these days? Sorry to hear about your condition. 🙏🏻❤️

[@chrisalex1440]

Also sounds like soul loss contact a shaman you can drive to

[@Mysticstoolbox]

@@chrisalex1440 Really? I'd like to know more about this.

[@chrisalex1440]

Sandra ingerman soul loss

[@Mysticstoolbox]

@@chrisalex1440 Thank you. I'll check it out!

[@littlecupcakespuppies]

I can already tell this one is going to be another tough one. Do you ever take a day of Dr. Sage? We love you so much.

[@DrKimSage]

I am so sorry, I hope it's not too painful tonight lovey. Thank you so much for your kinds words...I am in flight more than I care to admit :). but I also love sharing this and hope it's helpful. Sending love and healing your way today!!

[@EllieGoddard-rh7jc]

I have traits of these too.

[@KarmasAbutch]

Does anyone else get involuntary sleeping instead? I’ve never fainted but all of a sudden feel calm, like I’m drugged (and I’m not) then can barely hold my head up and go straight to sleep - first time it ever happened was in a therapist office - double edged sword - thanks for causing that but explaining what it was after lady! 😂 3rd time she did it I cancelled the sessions - but once that door had opened it never closed. I will say it’s the best sleep of my life though, but very inconvenient

[@madelinem6862]

I definitely dip into this one frequently. Especially in the last few years. Thanks for the information

[@Speaking4lines]

Found your videos and appreciate them sooooooo much been working through alot of trauma and this explanation helped me understand why my memory can be so disjointed THANK YOU!!!

[@barbarabertone7821]

First I thought I had long COVID but now I feel that I am in freeze and collapsed. Thanks for this program

[@incensejunkie7516]

I love this series, thank you! You give a great explanation of the difference between freeze and collapse/submit.

[@shahilagh]

I used to think freeze and shut down are the same. but it seems they r so different. I learnt by looking at an infographic today. I recall I had a boss who was a bully. my ex manager in the workplace said (plus few other colleagues) you have to fight with her, go to dean etc. I had bad experiences of abuse by previous managers. so I was kind of shut down and didnt say much .... and then pandemic happened, and everything changed because people began working from home. I think my response was the most effective and wise response. I saw this over time. our relationship also changed. I try to avoid her

[@leighparratt3015]

Wow…..this is exactly what happened to my last year (after a short traumatic destructive relationship). I couldn’t go outside, cook, hardly speak and cried all day. Therapist couldn’t ‘reach’ me. Was only a 50mg dose of sertraline that gave me a 36 hour headache and I totally changed over night. My chemicals were so out of balance from the trauma…..14 months on and the recovery been slow. Other triggers common but not this one again thank God.

[@sofiafantin5280]

What’s helping you going back to balance ?

[@leighparratt3015]

Time. Self care (cosy baths, learning to dance). Spending time with people who care and love me. Therapy to find out who I am cos I never really knew. So grateful to the online content makers that have helped 🥰 (Terri Cole, Richard grannon, dr Romani, dr cloud etc.) About to start the b Ok ‘meet yourself’. How about you?? Are you in trauma response?

[@sofiafantin5280]

@@leighparratt3015 I would love these things could work for me. After 5 years , loooooot of therapy, lovely people around me etc … I’ m worse than ever

[@leighparratt3015]

I’m sorry to hear that! It can be so tough. I also have been on medication for 2 years now. I resisted very much and I know it’s controversial. I huge hug and one day at a time for you 🤗

[@sofiafantin5280]

@@leighparratt3015 thank you so much

[@teresaross7991]

My whole life and I’m just so so tired

[@JenniferDelaneyLPC]

Love your videos and sharing with clients! That having been said I learned that freeze IS hypoarousal and includes collapse and shut down. I don’t really see the benefit of differentiating them.

[@KarriSimone]

Oh man this openes my eyes!

[@metacarpitan]

wow, i've been on all sorts of medication for depression (anti depressants, mood stabilizers, anti psychotics) for the past 12 years, seems like it is not depression after all

[@alexandrugheorghe5610]

How are you doing? I'm on a mood stabilizer and an anti psychotic as well. Take good care of yourself.

[@proper.role.model.819]

I get tired because I use to run and now I freeze and then it went to the freeze/faint feeling and its so scary. I know Im so safe but I was stuck for so long that its hard to get out of. I don't want to feel that way.

[@elizabethpettigrew4382]

Wow this is so helpful ty!

[@kiskakuznetsova503]

Thank you!

[@pppp67567]

Great video thank you

[@katalinfenyvesi1156]

I love that music with the strings at the end. What piece is it? 😊 And I also find your videos really helpful for c-ptsd! It's a bit messy that Pete Walker only has 4 response categoruies, and you seem to mention more, but I'll sort it out. This kind of became my SI for the time being ;)

[@cassiestevens8382]

Thanks❣️

[@alexandrugheorghe5610]

NICABM is a great resource

[@bartlevenson7851]

I go into this about once every two months or so when my partner blasts me with some angry response. I literaly freeze, then shut down and go numb. Even though they are demanding a response from me, I cannot even move or speak. I am hoping they will learn eventually that they will not get anything out of me from the raging questioning. And it is usually about stupid stuff like not cleaning the stove top well enough for them, with all kinds of charachter assasination. I already had my charachter assasinated in and industrial way 25 years ago when i was accused of commiting 30 felonies in a week, and was fired from a job and told I would never work. this despite 45 years of living with no more than parking tickets for a record. This occured shortly after I visited the Auschwitz Camp near Crackow Poland in '96. My aunt, who helped raise me, as well as most of the family were sent there in '44, and I always felt guilty for just being alive since most of the family was't when I was growing up. to this day, at over 70, I still can't handle raging criticism and go into isolation responces. I want to be left alone if I am not good enough.

[@singlaankush777]

what kind of treatment work for this? i am really fed up trying .

[@kristinmeyer489]

2:24 Under ordinary circumstances, this is true. However, with the induced traumas resulting from organized stalking and harassment crimes, the options are limited to gray rock. There is no escape, and even normal assertiveness, as a female is reframed as "agression" which to those evil liars is "inappropriate," so really, the only "option" is to suck it up, and bury your feelings about such inhuman, pervasive, invasive social disease. Gang stalking IS a disease.

[@dianamatei7823]

❤❤❤

[@johnroberts7959]

I still hate my father's guts for things he did to me. I wish I could not feel that way but I just hate him. How do we deal with strong hate for past actions?

[@KarmasAbutch]

Allow yourself to hate him - but don’t dwell there or ruminate in those feelings. You’re under no obligation to feel something other than that. Don’t feel pressured by toxic victim “forgiveness” culture.

[@askew9976]

Can one possibly have all but 1 of these?

[@interstellar3.14]

Im a part of a dissociative identity disorder system and this video sends the body straight into dissociation *every single time* so i may have literally blacked out that maybe this was your entire point and im just an idiot and cant seem to ground during this......which is why ive watched it like 3-4 times over the past several months. So pardon me if im reiterating the whole point.....but in case im not, i have been wondering for some time if there might be like a dorsal vagal shutdown/hypoarousal version of the commonly known fight/flight/(& sometimes freeze) trauma responses. Like are people who are constantly or largely stuck in hypoarousal/dorsal vagal shutdown is there a dichotomy where your 2 defaults become "freeze/collapse"? And i havent watched the "fawn" or "attach"/"cry out" videos yet but where to those 2 come into this whole polyvagal theory..... idk....

[@davidnevolo4402]

Me