Can a Magic Deck Ever Fairly Beat a Yu-Gi-Oh Deck?

We were challenged by ‪@CardmarketYGO‬ to come up with a Magic deck that could beat a Yu-Gi-Oh! Deck fair and square. It took a little bit of help, but we are confident in our decklist!
Find both the Yugioh and MTG Decklists here:
Deckbuilding 0:28
Duel 05:30
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[@The-Nomad1]

Alternate title, yugioh player learns what the color blue does in real time

[@MansMan42069]

The sequel: "Magic player gets told *No* by funny pink cards" Edit: Kain7759 is a butthurt mtg player who got told No by said funny pink cards.

[@joshuahadams]

I mean, Ritual monsters are blue and almost *always* successful because they’re in annoying control decks. If you get a chance take a look at “The Herald of Perfection”. Basically as long as you have Fairies in your hand to discard, you counter most things your opponent can do. It’s upgraded form, “The Herald of Ultimateness” blanket extends that to literally anything your opponent can do. And they can respond to things that are responding to them. You _really_ want some form of counter card that you can use against them before the Heralds hit the field.

[@TimothyGod]

​@@joshuahadams rituals inherently are bad, just realllllly good ones exist

[@joshuahadams]

@@TimothyGod they’re either the best thing in the meta or they’re mediocre at best and like no in between, pretty much.

[@TimothyGod]

@@joshuahadams yea, to much to invest into a lot of times

[@dom_rocks7923]

I love how the solution to beating a Yu-Gi-Oh deck isn't a crazy combo deck like Storm or Thoracle, it's just a pile of Islands, Theft Effects and Countermagic.

[@YukiFubuki.]

as a yugioh player i find this hilarious but at the same time the match up really does boil down to how much of a handicap is mtg allowed to get away with

[@frosthammer917]

In most cases yeah. Like there are 30 years of mtg cards. So if we go everything allowed, there are a few turn 0 or turn 1 kill combos. But those would be boring to use, be a video of the MTG player drawing a new hand and forfeitting 20 times until they get a specific hand and just feel cheap. Plus I am sure yugioh has the same potential in its cardpool. So in an average match of course the game with 1000x bigger numbers and no resource restrictions wins.

[@christopherreed8996]

@@YukiFubuki. You have to play more than just zero drops.

[@darthparallax5207]

Manaless Dredge answers Yugioh. But Slifer the Sky Dragon Revival Jam answers Manaless Dredge I think.

[@ChunkyTheClown]

@@frosthammer917 You are very much correct, at least if we assume Yugioh cards that interact with "monsters" are allowed to target Magic's "creatures." Approximately none of those Turn 0 kills will work consistently if the Yugioh player is allowed to play with actual Yugioh cards. One of the recent boogiemen archetypes of the game, Tearlament (especially the Ishizu Tear variant), can consistently play what is functionally their entire strategy on Turn 0, which includes effects like omni-negates and bouncing to hand, which will be occurring alongside staple hand traps also capable of negating effects and destroying cards. Even taking the very...unique...case that Tear presents out of the picture, Yugioh's plethora of reactionary hand traps like Ghost Ogre or Infinite Impermanence would likely be far more than enough to deal with any combo deck with way more consistency than Magic is capable of comboing off.

[@kyle7362]

Ironically Adam would have been better off running low attack monsters since they would still one shot his opponent and be less of a threat if the opponent took it

[@JonathanMandrake]

Not only that, a burn deck would have been perfect

[@doomoftheend]

Sparks :)

[@heroicdairy]

imagine summoning a trickstar and passing lmao

[@rodericwon4591]

@@heroicdairy OTK xD

[@silvertongue-242_99]

That's what I thought too don't need big number in this duel

[@Integer_Overload]

Fun idea, but now I want to see a Yu-Gi-Oh deck that's purpose-built to counter a Magic deck.

[@NightWing1800]

Pretty sure thats just playing every shitty burn spell in the game. Unless the Magic players deck is so dense with free counter spells that it can eat a Yugioh players hand and every draw until the Magic player finds lethal, then the yugioh player wins.

[@ironmuro]

You know what would absolutely make this unfair for the Magic side of things? Play Secret Village of the Spellcasters or Anti-Spell Fragrance, since everything is a spell in Magic those cards could stop the Magic side from, literally doing anything since they can't set cards.

[@BBHGamerGenius]

@@ironmuro Yup that shit works both ways. An eye for an eye. A Floodgate for a Floodgate.

[@jackryderproductions1030]

Runick with a good hand: they don't have a banished I think so it is back to remove from play litteraly.

[@crestenor]

Trickstars would probably do it

[@ckenshin3841]

Imagine using the best counter spell to deal with the worst burn spell

[@skillganon606]

If you live that's all that matters. Control is about not dying first.

[@Gresh17]

@@skillganon606 all decks win by not dying first…

[@hewhoisnamed9050]

​@@Gresh17😢

[@dnr-vs1lk]

That just means all decks are control;

[@Gresh17]

@@dnr-vs1lk so true

[@lordsceptile6181]

I'm a Yugioh player and this is great. But I'd love to see a part two with Adam allowed to use a deck that isn't god awful. I'd be funny to see a Magic deck fend off something like Tearlaments, hell even a good Blue-Eyes deck would be fun.

[@Alino-]

Yeah. As someone who plays both games... like bruh, even some janky Skull Servant archetype deck would've been better than that.

[@Brandonious15987]

I'd be more down if if they didn't treat monsters as spell cards.

[@DMG551]

⁠@@Brandonious15987it’s just a quirk of wording. It’s just covers the “Omni” part of omninegates. But yea the fact that it says “spell” can be annoying.

[@Brandonious15987]

@DMG551 I don't mind the wording. I just meant that for this duel, mtg cards that target spells shouldn't affect yugioh monsters.

[@crackerman5519]

@@Brandonious15987they should

[@cjayhay]

"All your cards are 0 CMC because Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't have mana" seems reasonable, but I'm surprised Adam didn't challenge Carl counterspelling his monsters, when "spell" is a different card type in Yu-Gi-Oh!

[@Zetact_]

Or that how by the rules of Yugioh, if a card doesn't have a specific attribute then it is not treated as 0 but simply as "undefined." The whole "your Xyz monster is treated as level 0! Oh wait, no it isn't, my card doesn't work" was even used in the anime. They have no levels so they are simply not able to be interacted with such cards.

[@ajharris2690]

@@Zetact_ but id just put it as so the cost is how many monsters are used to summon it especially with Iink monsters

[@MenloMarseilles]

​@@Zetact_ I think they handled that part right, because the "converted" in "converted mana cost" is an MtG rule that (among other things) makes specific provisions for costless cards. Some MtG cards (e.g. lands and Suspend cards) don't have mana costs either, and that's different from having a mana cost of 0 because it changes the rules of how you can play them. Lands don't use the stack, for instance, and Suspend cards have to be cast using Suspend instead of playing them normally. But _every_ card has a "converted mana cost", because the definition of CMC includes the fact that cards without a mana cost have a CMC of 0. So the Yu-Gi-Oh concept of spells that have no mana cost but can be played in another way fits easily into that paradigm. Challenging "spell" as being able to counter creatures would have been a more fruitful line of inquiry, I think; there *are* MtG cards that counter "summons" specifically, although they're generally very old cards from back when Creature cards said "Summon Creaturetype" instead of "Creature - Creaturetype"

[@Zetact_]

@@MenloMarseilles The gimmick isn't "Yugioh cards in MtG's ruleset," both games were retaining their own native ruleset and in that case the MtG rules shouldn't apply to Yugioh when they have a completely unambiguous ruling of that sort of scenario.

[@axelostlund2348]

It is difficult to say since magic defines so much more than yugioh does. Traps shouldn't be able to be countered as spells, you could see them as foretell, but I would more see traps as activating an ability, thus needing something like stifle to counter them. Since magic specifically defines some counterspells as countering "non-creature" spells, something that can counter any spells should counter creatures. I'm more interested in seeing what would happen with more creatures on the board. Yugioh needs all creatures gone before they can attack lifepoints, so what if you have 20 1/1 tokens in play? What if you summoned 5 creatures for your opponent so they can't play any more? Ensnaring bridge would be hilarious. But yugioh cards technically do not have power so that doesn't work. White and blue seems the most reasonable to be able to handle yugioh decks.

[@berkerus_]

Carl not picking up the "draw ur last pathetic card" is kinda funny

[@JerryTheToast]

The realization on Adams face when Carl asked "how many cards are in your library?" :DDD

[@Thegameshadow1]

Flashbacks from Mystic mine.

[@TastySnackies]

Adam: “I should’ve just played an OTK deck”

[@moersertrupp]

@@TastySnackies and then fold to the force of will :D

[@ShinkuDragon]

​@@moersertrupp a combo deck can play through a FoW or 2 though

[@chrismiller3548]

He should have big brained it and just played a 60 card Yu-Gi-Oh deck and went first lol

[@DarkYuan]

I was expecting some kind of conversion rate like magic creatures get 500x their stats or something. Didn't expect this!

[@TheBoss4711]

Same.. 400 makes sense going by the starting life totals of 8000 and 20. It makes more sense than saying that everything in Magic is just really weak.

[@Ibetooawesome]

​@@TheBoss4711 apparently not that weak

[@TheBoss4711]

@@Ibetooawesome If you are saying that, then you don't understand the context of my comment and the comment I'm replying to. We are referring to the stats. Without normalizing them, every MTG card involving stats is weaker than it should be.

[@enmadaniaisabel1552]

​@@TheBoss4711 WITH SOME FRIENDS WE DO A ×20 BUFF FOR MAGIC VS POKEMON AND ANOTHER ×20 BUFF FROM BUFFED MAGIC AND POKEMON VS YUGIOH 20 MAGIC LIFE ×20 = 400 PKMN HP ×20 = 8,000 YGO LP (20 LIFE ×400 = 8,000 LP) FOR POKEMON WAS A BIT HARDER XD BECAUSE THEY HAVE 6 PRIZE CARDS WITH A RANGE FROM 30HP EACH NORMAL POKEMON UP TO 340 TAG TEAM OR VMAX POKEMON (WORTH 3 PRIZES) SO JUST ROUND TO 400HP TOTAL FOR A EASY WAY TO GET WITH JUST ×20

[@TheBoss4711]

@@enmadaniaisabel1552 Yeah games without life totals make it much harder to decide what the conversion should be. That's really cool though.

[@RisingMooon]

even if a magic deck would have no chance against an actually good deck, this was still seriously impressive. great job coming up with these strategies and actually pulling it off

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

Eh a black Mill deck might win with itd kill spells, since he culd probaly drag out most games, aslong as its not a turn 1 win deck

[@godzilia2]

@@theonesithtorulethemall i don't think you know how ygo works, playing 20+ creatures is pretty easy to do, and the eck he plays is just so bad, ygo even when the numbers are converted ygo wins instantly

[@ilsignoredellaluce2234]

​@@godzilia2there are actually magic decks that can win on turn 1 or 2. If he keeps a lethal combo + free counterspell to survive a turn, i think a magic deck could win. Not on a regualr basis tho, that would need some luck with the first hand

[@godzilia2]

@@ilsignoredellaluce2234 a yugioh deck to be considered good has to be able to eat one or two counter spells because every deck plays around 6-12, in a 40 card deck, so counterspell isn't going to survive a turn

[@Gemini476]

I could see some kind of turbofog deck working, maybe. (tl;dr: fill your deck with cards that prevent all damage that would be dealt this turn, win by stalling out the opponent.) Alternatively, you pull out the actual banned turn 0 win decks and try to mulligan into some generate Flash Hulk combo. Beginning of the game: Reveal Gemstone Caverns from your starting hand and put it into play. Beginning of your opponent's first turn, before they get to do anything: Exile a Simian Spirit Guide or Elvish Spirit Guide to make a mana. Tap the Caverns for a blue mana. Cast Flash, putting Protean Hulk into play. Neglect to pay the extra cost for Flash, killing the Protean Hulk. Search your library for Thassa's Oracle, Cephalid Illusionist, and Nomads en-Kor; put them into play. With the Oracle's trigger on the stack, use the Nomads' ability twenty times targeting the Illusionist. The Cephalid then flips your entire deck into your graveyard, Thassa's Oracle sees that you have zero cards in your deck, and you instantly win the game. (Note that this combo is kind of unreliable even if it _does_ just hand you a T0 win occasionally.) ...Or, well, you just fill your deck with free counterspells and removal and try to go infinite. I assume that the deck in this video probably still had the splinter twin combo somewhere in it. It's an uphill battle, but probably still doable. You just need to try to combo out while preventing your opponent from being able to combo out, which is kind of a classic match-up.

[@kamaljohnson2200]

Love that he wins by asking questions, "how much mana did that cost to play again?" "How many cards do you have in your library?" On his villain arc hard lol

[@ianslee4765]

How did he play a spell from his hand to counter sparks? They literally just played with magic rules

[@Hamieee]

​@@ianslee4765 they were both playing with the rules of their games.

[@ianslee4765]

@@Hamieee then the "oops you can't play that cause it has no mana cost" doesn't make sense as that's not how ygo works This is literally just a jank way for mtg to win.

[@Hamieee]

@@ianslee4765 how much mana do Yu-Gi-Oh spells cost again?

[@ianslee4765]

@@Hamieee you do realize the term "n/a" makes more sense than a specific value. Yes? No. People suck at logic

[@travistasharski8137]

Yu-Gi-Oh player - play OG imperial Order and "Negate the effects of all Magic Cards"

[@MosesBaker-sk1wv]

That’s a good one

[@jmurray1110]

Imperial order + tremendous fire

[@TheLastPhoen1x]

Lol 😁

[@EskChan19]

Doesn't even have to be OG, can be modern Imperial Order too. Everything in Magic is considered a spell so "Negate all Spell effects" would still work

[@TheLastPhoen1x]

Secret Village of Spellcasters XD

[@blackrosed8068]

I love how Carl won with yugioh cards without playing a single yugioh card in their deck

[@purpleavatar5350]

I love how the Yu-Gi-Oh! player quoted the charecter his deck is based on and the magic player just thought he was being mean 😂

[@shieldgenerator7]

what was the quote?

[@lusac3419]

@@shieldgenerator7 "Draw your last pathetic card" a line by Kaiba and Adam was playing a Kaiba deck. Yugi answers: "My grandpa's deck has no pathetic cards, Kaiba"

[@WIZA327]

"Fairly beat" is a stretch of a title XD That was hella entertaining though, I loved it. Can't wait for the rematch :)

[@fish_in_distress]

Can't believe you explained Deflecting Palm and she didn't immediately go "Oh it's Magic Cylinder" 😂

[@GothamKnight-hsw4vx526430]

Yeah I was waiting for that, how tf didn't she?? LMFAO

[@jjohansen86]

This is far more hilarious than I was expecting. As addressed below, there are ways to make this closer to balanced, but I did laugh a lot at "Magic's way of overcoming the differences in rules is to abuse them with the help of islands."

[@MansMan42069]

I would like to see a sequel where Adam plays Counter Trap cards like Solemn Judgment and Solemn Warning. Since they're Counter Traps, you can't respond to them except with other Counter Traps, of which mtg has none. Instants would be too slow (equivalent to Yugioh Quick-Play Spells or Quick Effects on monsters).

[@Ffancrzy]

@@MansMan42069 eh, I'd argue against this. There used to be a time in Magic where there were "Instants" and "Interrupts". Interrupts were basically the equivalent of counter traps where you could only respond to them with OTHER Interrupts. These were cards like the Counterspells that were being used in this game. Instants were the equivalent of Quick play spells at that point in time, you could use them on your opponents turn, and you could respond to sorcery speed effects with them (which would be things like normals spells, or normal summoning etc in yugioh). However by 6th edition they realized they didnt really need them to be seperate card types, and they rolled them all into 1 type, "Instant". So now all "Instants" function exactly like counter traps in yugioh, they can respond to anything, even other instants.

[@MansMan42069]

@@Ffancrzy Except Interrupts have been subsumed under the Split Second keyword, so even if we were being charitable, Instants with Split Second would pretty much be Quick-Play spells that have "neither player can activate spell/trap cards or effects or monster effects in response to this card's activation." effect text. So basically the Split Second errata nerfed Counterspell for the purposes of cross-game rulings.

[@xxxxSylphxxxx]

@@MansMan42069 The issue is that in magic, instants resolve BEFORE the spell they are reacting to resolves. If you want to call counter-trap cards split-second, that's one thing, but I'm not sure how it translates - in Yu-gi-oh they CAN be responded to using similar type cards. Just like instants in magic. NOT like split second.

[@MansMan42069]

@@xxxxSylphxxxx I'm not saying we could equate Counter Traps to Split Second. I'm actually saying the opposite. Because the obsolete "Interrupt" card type is now a keyword that some Instants now have, in Yugioh terms, they're now the equivalent of Quick-Play Spells. Yugioh simply has a spell speed tier faster than Instants, which used to be Interrupts, which no longer exist.

[@irishmexicanlandlord]

I play both magic and Yu-Gi-Oh and this was great!! I seriously thought Adam was going to pay nothing but burn spells and low attack monsters to win.

[@yannicdewilde3609]

Giving a magic deck 8000 life opens the door to alot of turn 1 kills, there are cards that lets you pay x life and draw x cards.

[@migBdk]

@@yannicdewilde3609 and combine that with pay life to gain mana cards, you can just draw and play your infinite combo at turn 1

[@lunk642]

The real play would have just been to set a monster in game 2. Because it’s face down, you can’t confirm it’s mana cost, which means it can’t be countered. Then flip it face up the next turn, which isn’t a cast because it’s already on the field.

[@egoalter1276]

Magic defines face down cards as 2/2 humans with CMC 3. Which means yes, he could have set it.

[@INTstincts]

@@egoalter1276 Not quite... It defines Morph cards that are cast using the Morph cost and specifically have the Morph keyword to be 2/2 Creature with no creature type and no CMC. Other cards can be put face down for other reasons and not be Morph creatures. There is no default rule in Magic that any face-down card is a 2/2, that is inherited from the Morph and Manifest abilities that explicitly say so.

[@egoalter1276]

@@INTstincts I believe the way the rules currently handle rules, all face down cards are morphs doe?

[@chargingbadger867]

​@INTstincts actually, there is a rule that says that all facedown creatures are 2/2s. Just look at the reminder text of Ixidron. (If it was card specific it would be rules text, not reminder text)

[@chargingbadger867]

Specifically rule 708.2a

[@bbasics]

This is a great concept, though I'd love to see a no ban list version of the two games go up against each other, with the life totals swapped so the minor attacks by normal summons don't mess things up.

[@Lightning_Lance]

multiply everything by 400 so the creatures can trade too

[@DwWarWolf]

channel would make the magic player broken with 7999 mana. maybe yugioh has something as equally as broken having to start at 20

[@bbasics]

Mostly I'm thinking it as "fair decks" rather than nonsense based around game interactions. Chalice on 0 was pretty dumb and isn't particularly interesting, nor is channel. If cards like that were included, then the mtg player shouldn't get mulligans because they otherwise just immediately win by going down to 2 or even 1 cards.

[@MaiaNetliss]

​@B B I mean this is ignoring the fact that the Ygo player can play their spells for free right? YGO already has this inherent advantage over MTG. Broken interactions are part of the game. There's nothing stopping the YGO player from setting up multiple negates and a floodgate turn one through Force of Will or similar free countermagic.

[@notcreative8325]

​@@DwWarWolf channel would destroy here

[@hxcnoel]

Since you pretty much meta-gamed a way to cheese out a yugi oh deck, it would be cool if there was a second video where he gets to create a yugi oh deck that preys on the rules of Magic

[@CardmarketMagic]

We will indeed be doing a rematch :)

[@Rodinj10]

​@@CardmarketMagic love it!

[@Dmaulinator]

Aren’t there just enough normal spells that do damage to just guarantee winning through any number of free counterspells? Or is the plan to use imperial order/spell canceller/anti-spell fragrance to just return the chalice of the void favor?

[@tame1773]

​@@CardmarketMagic Anti spell fragernce and I.O. are instant wins, they cant set and everything is a spell sooooo... Plus i think you should change some rule like health and lvls being mana costs or something I think it would be more interesting if it was a real duel.

[@casinoroyal93]

Imma summon elementar hero Prisma and declare vicious astroud.... To be continued

[@djkates1916]

Something I would be interested to see, as sort of a spinoff to this idea, would be a "hybrid" video. Basically, instead of Magic *versus* YGO, create a ruleset that essentially *blends* YGO and Magic in such a way that cards from both games can be included in the same deck, and then see just how much you can break things. There would be a lot of implementation details that would have to be determined (such as how to make the numbers line up better and how to account for the fact that Magic has a mana system and YGO doesn't), but I think there's potential here.

[@MenloMarseilles]

I think, once you get past obvious stuff like converting life totals & figuring out how mixed combat works, the lynchpin would be something like a "one basic play per turn" rule. That is, you can normal summon or you can do your land-drop but not both. This allows "free" Yu-Gi-Oh monsters, which are crazy strong in MtG terms (Clavkiys is essentially a 4/4 Haste Trample on Turn 1), with the significant drawback that you're getting behind curve on your MtG style card advantage and disruption, which are crazy strong in YGO terms (Thoughtseize is essentially a less painful and more permanent Appointer of the Red Lotus, if it wasn't for the mana requirement). It's possible that we don't consider normal summons to be "spells" for the purpose of countering, to avoid degen strategies like the ones in this video (after all, land plays aren't spells either)... but they still open a chain, instead of being "split second" plays like lands are. I think non-monster YGO cards should still have a mana value of 0, though; the whole point of MtG cards that trigger off mana value is to be better against cards that the enemy can cast more freely, and YGO spells (especially if backed by MtG card draw engines) are as free as it gets. Maybe monsters get a mana value of Level/2, or something. We wouldn't want someone to be able to Special Summon their finisher monster with just a Green Sun Zenith for 0.

[@MaidenOfAir]

@@MenloMarseilles I saw an idea for YGO mana costs to be "Number of monsters you have to sacrifice to summon it". I don't play YGO, so I don't know if that exactly works, but it's an idea at least

[@djkates1916]

@@MaidenOfAir For context, I'm a YGO player who has played a few games of Magic (though I was never all that good at Magic, and it's been years since I last played it). Personally, I don't think that the idea of having the number of Tributes convert to mana cost is the best idea, but what could be used instead is the monster's Level (that's the row of stars under the monster's name and is what determines the number of Tributes needed). Depending on the specifics of the conversion method, I imagine the rule being that a YGO monster's converted mana cost is equal to half of its Level, rounded up. Since the range of printed Levels for YGO monsters is from 1 to 12, this yields a mana cost range of 1 to 6. It's not a perfect conversion, but it would probably be good enough. What I don't have any ideas for (and this would be a major sticking point for the implementation of this whole idea) is how to handle mana costs for YGO's Spells and Traps. There isn't anything on non-monster YGO cards that can be readily converted to a mana cost. There's also no simple way to assign Magic colors to most YGO Spells or Traps other than a manual "match the effect to Magic's color pie". (By contrast, YGO monsters have an Attribute, which could be used to assign any given monster a Magic color; again, it's imperfect, but it's good enough.)

[@fourthwallbreak7727]

Also need a good way to counteract the fact that Yu-Gi-Oh cards are not as wide as Magic cards, I'm sure some sleveing method would work for that

[@kaylaa2204]

A set card in Yugioh is a card that is on the field but it is not yet activated. Most of these are traps which means they are required to be set. This one doesn’t have a trigger for its activation but a lot of them do. Like there’s a card where if there are 4 or more monsters on the field, it gets triggered and you can then choose to activate it to destroy all monsters currently on the field

[@egoalter1276]

Magic also has flip cards, but they are always already some form of other existig game object, like a creature or an artifact, before they flip.

[@kaylaa2204]

@@egoalter1276well flip effect refers to something else in Yugioh, there are monsters that have effects called flip effects, which means if you set a monster and flip it face up, its effect activates. But these are slow and there’s not a lot of great ones so you rarely see them on the competitive level Guess that’s more similar to what you’re talking about since you say it can be a creature or artifact Trap cards I don’t think MTG has anything like because their whole point is to be responses to changes in the game state, that the opponent has to try to anticipate because they can’t see them. But idk much about MTG

[@egoalter1276]

@@kaylaa2204 MTG has cards that trigger effects whan they are flipped, and some of them can be flipped at any time, usually for a cost. Some of these can function like trap cards. Another mechanic that can function like traps is foretell, which banishesthe played card from the game, and lets you cast it from banishment, usually for an alternative cost. Both of these are mechanics to extend your effective hand size, gain card effects of greater magnitude at the extra cost of time, and allows you to set up counterplay that is immune to hand disruption. MTG games usually taking 5-10 turns to play out istead of 2-3 in YGO also makes these more viable than traps are.

[@kaylaa2204]

@@egoalter1276 3 turns sounds abit fast, I’d bump that up to maybe 3-4 or 3-5 turns. Not something I ever paid attention to though so maybe it is faster than I think it is. Guess it would always vary. It definitely seems faster than what I’ve seen of MTG that’s for sure. Main reason I would guess is MTG actually has a resource system. Used to not be as fast because the summon limit was meant to be a sort of pseudo resource system, and special summons weren’t as common, there weren’t entire archetypes built on special summoning your monsters. It was a resource system built on an assumption that could easily change. That’s why I think it’s so fast now.

[@egoalter1276]

@@kaylaa2204 Oh, right. YGO calls each players turns a turn separately. High power level games usually end when the opening player has their second turn from what I've seen?

[@Somane27]

I used to do this with my YGO friend, but I had 8000 life and he had 20.

[@nagsorinaste5658]

ngl that seems like a way more fair way to play it and actually compare the powerlevel.

[@NinjaLobsterStudios]

What I think is needed are two health meters. Both players get 8000 LP and 20 life. YGO cards can only interact with LP and Magic cards can only interact with Life. You lose if either drops to 0 Damage between attacks of the same game follow that game's rules, cross-game interactions do not deal life/LP damage

[@TimothyGod]

​@@NinjaLobsterStudios this seems like the best compromise

[@tinvahtaric8680]

Deflecting palm for insta win in this situation

[@Romashka_Sov]

​@@tinvahtaric8680any type of mind control or copy cast as well

[@yummytea19]

Considering that the MTG deck was specifically built to counter a YGO deck and the YGO deck was more or less a basic structure deck, that result was kind of expected.

[@IrrelevantOaf]

Yeah if it was like full power Tear Ishizu it be a completely different story.

[@yummytea19]

@@IrrelevantOaf doesn't even have to be full power. Structure deck vs precon would work

[@krissam7791]

I mean, any deck with chalice in its 75 could do this.

[@yummytea19]

@@krissam7791 yes, but that only means that you need chalice specifically to beat a ygo deck. Meanwhile, ygo doesn't need any specific one

[@Lunacorva]

Trust me when I say that that was about the only way magic stood a chance. And I don't just mean life point totals.

[@kaylaa2204]

“What if you have a bad hand?” He’s kinda right in saying you live with it. It’s kinda reductive though. As a Yugioh player myself we simply have different ways of dealing with it. We have searches and any good deck has a way of searching your combo pieces, Getting them out of the deck and into your hand or field. Chances are in that case if you don’t draw your combo pieces you will have drawn a way to grab your combo pieces. And that’s how we deal with bad hands Now keep in mind because this is our way of dealing with it we have the expression “you don’t avoid bricking, you can only minimize it” every deck will have a small small chance of bricking, and at that point you hope for the best.

[@CrimsonLightning098]

An actual meta yugioh deck would literally just not even let the magic player play at all

[@OminousEcho]

The ending is a perfect representation of blue players. *plays card* "Oof I feel bad about this one" *game ends with everybody getting up to leave while blue player laughs maniacally*

[@Skaypegote]

This is why I play Blue/White control. Because only I get to have fun

[@menaatefadly]

Hm, I think blue players gonna reaaaaally like Yugioh Maybe Eldlich or Runik to feel right at home

[@Skaypegote]

@@menaatefadly I do play play Eldlich in master duel. But I'm not a super fan of YGO. Fun to play on occasion

[@youtubewontletmehavemyusername]

So just your average not shit yugioh deck

[@whenisdinner2137]

​@@menaatefadly also Labyrinth.

[@neonhilism5814]

You could play something like Sphere of Resistance. If they don’t have any mana to begin with, they can’t pay the tax!

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

Any form of stax would completely dumpster Yu-Gi-Oh players because they don't have any mana to play cards

[@pierrevolatier9949]

chalice of the void to 0 destroy yugioh

[@neonhilism5814]

@@pierrevolatier9949 they already showed that in the video, so I was just considering if there was anything similar, only taking a different route and stuff like this and Thalia came to mind

[@welshmanthebestbanana3635]

Chalice of the void, void mirror, and lavina kills the yu gi oh player

[@TheCubicalGuy]

Don't forget trinisphere!

[@g1yugioh640]

Fun vid love the premise. Honestly the way both games went it really looked reminiscent of an optimal built yugioh deck vs a non optimal one (carl's vs adam's starter deck) Using instants in hand to counter opp cards is basically the idea behind hand traps. Setting up negates for summons and especially card and effect activations is essentially what high level yugioh offers Also deflecting palm is essentially magic cylinder 😂

[@mediocregameplay]

That was fun to watch lol (hoping for a part2). But let's be fair, the mtg deck only worked cause they agreed to consider summoning a monster or casting a trap card in yugioh as being the same as casting a spell in magic, which makes no sense in yugioh, since spells are a type of card different from monsters and traps.

[@princess_intell]

Playing any card that's not a land is called "casting a spell" in magic.

[@luistoraya3760]

Yet in ygo a spell is a different type of card so we have cards that counter spells or better yet, magic cards but they cant counter monsters or effects that can change omninegate both magic/traps and monsters

[@apharys8921]

Playing a magic deck vs a yugioh deck makes no sense in the first place. The magic cards followed magic's rules (all non-land cards played are spells, cmc) and the yugioh cards followed yugioh's rules (monsters having haste and trample, playing cards for free). Imo the trap should have been countered when set rather than flipped (think morph cards) but that's what they agreed to and it would have had the same result regardless.

[@hmvollbanane1259]

But the again spell in MTG simply means "card other than land" and since they applied Yu-Gi-Oh rules for Yu-Gi-Oh cards (aka the magic player not tapping them for attack) I think magic cards should function according to MTG rules in which case "counter spell" reads "counter any card that goes on the stack" (can be chain linked in Yu-Gi-Oh)

[@AbsurdAsparagus]

@@princess_intell and a monster is explicitly not a spell in yugioh.

[@kevinb.2595]

There do exist Turn 0 kill decks in MTG. With the huge life totals in Yugioh you'd need to win through alternate win cons like decking people out with Thassa's Oracle

[@TheStalk]

Or do what they did and Chalice them on 0 turn 1

[@gibbeldon]

Yeah, but they are rather unlikely to draw.

[@MaiaNetliss]

@@gibbeldon when every counterspell is an omninegate and there's hard locks like chalice on 0 or ensnaring bridge + Karn Magic actually has a lot of game against yugioh

[@ankhi3585]

You definitely need to start with something like 4 Gemstone Caverns, 4 Serum Powder, 4 Leyline of anticipation, 4 Elvish and Simian Spirit Guide.

[@xakannax]

you could also just poison them to death turn 1 if you have the engine for it, poison does not care in the slightest what their life total is :P

[@derdomino828]

This concept is really neat. It's like a crossover event where groups from two universes with different power levels and magic system fight each other :D

[@BaronSengir1008]

IT'S TIME FOR A DEATH BATTLE!

[@PizzaMineKing]

Suggestions: both players can use cards from both games, but all magic numbers are multiplied by 400 (making magic LP equal to Yugioh LP) - I wonder what kinds of deck you'll come up with!

[@nightmare3642]

Ah, yes, I can't wait to cast my spells using 800 mana.

[@PizzaMineKing]

@@nightmare3642 ... correction: all *damage* and hp numbers

[@Sorain1]

@@nightmare3642 Well, the value you get in mana is going to be a number, so one basic land would be 400 mana.

[@bluestarcmdr350]

That 2nd game would have been so different if he had just added 1 copy of each piece of exodia to the starter deck. It would force the magik player to allow the yugioh player to play to steal his cards or remove cards from hand or else suffer instant loss to exodias effect since it cant be countered once it is all in hand due to the speed of the effect

[@TheIhplodur]

In Magic there are a lot of Cards to force your opponent to discard Cards from your Hand or from your Deck.

[@bluestarcmdr350]

@TheIhplodur yeah but in this instance it did not, just thought it would have been a cool back and forth classic yugioh style

[@wingdinggaster6737]

@@bluestarcmdr350 he did have a card that could force him to discard. the XU spell that lets him look at his opponents hand and force them to discard a card with MV X or less

[@bluestarcmdr350]

@wingdinggaster6737 yes he did, I meant if they added one set of exodia to the yugioh deck it would force more back and forth play and even more thinking for the magic player.

[@Armyn13]

Poor Adam, he got Mystic Mine'd...

[@96Assassine]

Mystic mine seems fair in comparison, as it still lets you use spells/traps xD

[@tciddados]

I was honestly amazed the first match worked out, but once I saw that the second match's idea was to play Chalice I just cracked up.

[@Akari-br7ci]

This honestly seems impossible, but you deserve all the respect in the world for legitimately attempting it Edit: My god he really did it

[@EskChan19]

To be fair the Yugioh deck was terrible and the Yugioh player wasn't really trying. Imperial Order would have just stopped the Magic player completely, as would Anti-Magic Jar and other such cards. Plus for this one you'd actually not want big beat sticks but you'd want decks that summon a lot of small, weak monsters since any non-0 Yugioh monster would oneshot a Magic player anyway.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

This is a really fun event! The cross-functioning cards are nice.

[@evenaxin3628]

There are counter spells in Yu-Gi-Oh, I'm really curious what would have happened if he knew what to expect.

[@matthewmurdock7329]

Any time the Yu-Gi-Oh player could get to attack directly without any hurdle, they’d win the game

[@whenisdinner2137]

If the Yu-Gi-Oh player knew what to expect he would have brought a trap deck like traptrix, eldlitch or Labyrinth

[@NicolasClark7732]

Probably around ten years ago, I played a counter deck on dueling network. There were games I won because the people just surrendered after I countered a couple summons. It was pretty funny to me, as somebody that had recently started playing Magic at the time and quickly ran into a slew of control decks.

[@DoomSpellSkadi]

Yu-Gi-Oh Counter Spell written like "Counter the effect of Magic/Trap/Monster card" of "Counter and Destory the Activeion of Magic/Trap/Monster card" If there are the ruler lawer, deal to the Card Game MTG can be sound as Magic Counter XXX of Magic can be any card of MTG deck Counter XXX of Trap have no legal target Counter XXX of Monster can only effect on creature

[@GrimAngel01100]

If both go off of their respec stack/chain rules then mtg has the upper hand due to priority

[@RayearthIX]

I laughed so hard at that Chalice play. 😂 Also, of course the MTG deck would be a blue control deck! What else could it be!

[@tomspoli]

Black discard

[@Zoltria]

@@tomspoli possibly but remember all his creatures have haste and only 1 needs to get thru to win

[@delta3244]

An adjusted ZTK or FTK which takes advantage of Yugioh's lack of generic interaction, perhaps. Or perhaps a similarly adjusted controlling combo deck which is merely capable of getting that Z/FTK.

[@BaronBytes]

He could have tossed a few Propaganda and Ghostly Prisons in the sideboard to make sure no monster got through bu 3 mana is hard to get through I figure

[@matthunter9380]

A degenerate combo deck

[@syrelian]

Congrats, you just activated the pain of every Yugioh player ever with that Chalice FUCKING FLOODGATES Good video

[@axelostlund2348]

We need to see more of this content, by swapping the lifetotals. That way each deck is battling against the life system they were built to defeat.

[@jamesfirecat6652]

But then MTG player just uses a redirection spell of any kind and wins…

[@huscarlkt2335]

Infect also would've been an interesting way to circumvent the life total issue, although you still would've had to both defend from and get through their creatures.

[@stamythezombie]

Nothing a few Fog spells and a creature with Flying can't handle.

[@YukiFubuki.]

i think a good balance would be to isolate each games' mechanic to themselves and only hand off to the other at the actual point of interaction like combat between the 2 - yugioh does not allow direct atks without an empty field and thus must get rid of all mtg's creature first - mtg's blocker can even stop direct atk abilities of yugioh monsters - combat between monster and creature will not allow the dmg to go through to player's life without piercing from the monster but will allow on yugioh player without - mtg creature can atk directly unless there exist a monster with an ability to force atks only to themselves on the field this would allow some combative interaction between the 2 without it being over within 1 atk declaration from the yugioh player since someone correct me if im wrong but mtg can spam the field with tokens right since mtg doesnt have any monster zones while yugioh is limited to 5 main monster zones and 1 extra monster zones, a mtg player can potentially just put up enough bodies then a yugioh player can atk within a single turn it ends up as an unlimited wall if they dont have piercing, unless... yugioh player summons bujintei susanowo who has the ability to atk all opponent's monster once

[@aaronwildberger7927]

Don't have to attack to give poison counters some spells just give them. Then you could proliferate the poison counters til they have lost!

[@Tzizenorec]

@@YukiFubuki. Yeah, a lot of conversions are needed. WRT piercing: I would say treat MTG creates as in "attack position" when they're attacking, and in "defense position" when they're blocking. That prevents most piercing damage in a way that makes sense to the Yugioh rules.

[@CrazyAlbatross46]

​@@YukiFubuki. you need time to build a board, that makes 8k damage, the problem is that an attacking creature cant block in mtg so its unfair, normally if a Yu-Gi-Oh monster attack an mtg player neet to use some trick to prevent the damage or he will die

[@andreaspersson3532]

Love to see someone experience a blue deck for the first time 😂

[@isaacsmith6482]

Adam is probably very familiar with the feeling. In modern yugioh, every card has a blue/black theme. The current #1 deck can stop you from playing any cards to your side of the board by declaring those zones unusable through their boss monster effect.

[@DuncanHarbison]

In yugioh the game isn't based around traditional traps any more where you set it and wait a turn, there are now lots of monsters that do similar things where you can play it from hand on the draw during your opponent's first turn. Think of it as most meta decks running between 6 and 15 copies of force of will/metal mistep/snap etc in their 40 cards.

[@kobisjeruk]

@@isaacsmith6482 Banning color (you know the equivalent in yugioh) is a white thing.

[@nonyabidness8676]

This feels like the arc where a longtime villain (permission decks) becomes the beacon of hope against a lopsidedly powerful foe.

[@whenisdinner2137]

Bro was just having PTSD flashbacks of Mystic mine. Don't worry about it

[@LoganBeck11]

This is the fun version of this idea, and I love it. I was expecting some turn 1 combo mill deck to take advantage of the 40 card deck size in yugioh. But only because I did not expect interaction to work

[@Asageun]

We should make a magic deck fight a pokemon deck

[@phoenixgemini42]

I have a few concerns with this format. The most prevalent is that summoning in yugioh doesnt use its equivalent of the stack. It passes priority so responses like kill spells can be used, but it shouldnt fundamentally be able to be countered. Spell/Trap/monster affects should be counterable though (assuming your spell counters activated abilities for the monster). The second is that when a monster lacks some parameter, such as a level, it is unaffected by cards that care about levels. Like an XYZ monster wouldnt be affected by level limit. In that regard, using cmc doesnt make much sense.

[@JackgarPrime]

It seems like the rule of thumb here is that when a card is using some kind of effect, it uses its native game's rules, NOT the other game's. Such as having the word "spell" on a Magic card meaning "any card that's not a land", while in YGO, "Spell" is a more specific definition. Also, in Magic, 0 CMC spells (notice I'm again specifically saying "spells", not "cards", because lands are cards but not spells, and usually themselves don't have a CMC but aren't subject to a counterspell of any sort, although you may be able to find exceptions) exist and are not terribly uncommon, either. Or ways to turn spells into 0 CMC spells (DAMN YOU AFFINITY). So it would account for YGO cards with no mana cost.

[@hmvollbanane1259]

If you play a monster with an effect that activates when it enters the battlefield like frost monarch and your opponent uses a bottomless pit trap to counter it, does the effect of the monster still go off or not? If it goes off I would agree that Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't use a concept where MTG stack rules could be applied, however if the effect doesn't go off I would argue that that is pretty much the same concept as the MTG stack (as you can start a chain of counters from there in Yu-Gi-Oh iirc anyways, so the question is wether the creature counts as having entered the battlefield or not which I would judge by the effect going off or not)

[@phoenixgemini42]

@hmvollbanane1259 the effect of the monarch will trigger if the summon is not negated. The trap hole cards do not negate the summon, so the effect of the monarch card will still trigger. If a card like solemn warning is played instead, then the summon is negated and the monster never etbs, thus preventing the effect from ever activating.

[@srg_aliens]

tbh the yugioh deck is very budget my bystial deck would win free summons and omni-negates plus masquerade requires opponents to pay 600 to play cards

[@christophergutzeit8827]

Now i want to see a follow up where the yugioh player brings a deck to beat magic and see what happens after their 10th link summon

[@phiefer3]

Why would you even bother with modern mechs against a magic deck? You don't need a combo to achieve lethal, all you need is literally 1 burn effect to get through uncountered. Fill your deck with all burn cards, sparks, hinotama, ookazi, final flame, poison of the old man, cauldron of the old man, restructure revolution, hidden barrel, chain detonation, etc. Chain energy literally locks the magic player out of the game. If you go first, the only way they stop 5 burn cards is if their hand is 4 nix, force of will, a blue card to exile, and chalice.

[@jaredschroeder7555]

Uses mindbreak trap on the chain. *pain* Lol

[@soup3583]

Literally just a deck of 40 burn cards or something

[@metalhev3989]

@@phiefer3 only thing the magic player needs is Leyline of Anticipation and Chalice. Game would be over on turn zero.

[@Nerfified]

@@metalhev3989 ghost ogre and snow rabbit outs the chalice at any point and psy frame gear delta outs chalice or leyline on casting/activation (both of which are just creature effects and not "casting", to my knowledge very few cards in magic can counter creature effects vs them being cast, esp in the hand) so not really, even if you ban every yugioh card that burns I don't see how a magic deck wins against a compentently made yugioh deck more than flukes (aka against not the 20 year old starter deck like in this video) going first or second

[@JennyXJD]

This video went from good to great the second Carl put on that yugioh hair. Also props to Adam for being a good sport on agreeing to allow magic cards to function against his stuff.

[@codyhanson1344]

So to answer the question in the title, no. Yu-gi-oh does have spells, but monsters and traps do not count as spells, and that's the majority of what was "countered" by cards that counter spells. It was initially slid so there could be some more interaction, but game 2 exploited that so hard it couldn't even remotely be called fair.

[@bgotty2684]

I subscribed ! Best Magic vid I've ever seen. Thank you !

[@vladspellbinder]

2:24 There are tons of turn one wins in Magic as long as you don't play with banned cards and even then there are lots of turn one wins if you are not limited by format, there is a reason at one point in Magic's history where "early game" was shuffling the decks, "mid game" was the coin toss to see who went first, and "end game" was opening hand. My favorite combos will always be the ones that need seven cards but there are plenty that only need a few. The rules interactions were pretty fun, as was Adam's expression once he realized what was going on second game. Thanks for the video.

[@oygemprime3864]

Honestly, we'd be up for seeing this again with Adam on an actual deck. Maybe something from Edison format. To show just how far Yugioh has come.

[@NoticemeSinPi]

​@Chaos1990 Magic decks could play Leyline of Sanctity, if you have it in your opening hand (after mulligans) you may begin the game with it on the field, it gives the player hexproof (can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control) So unless they deal damage without targeting/choosing a player they wouldn't work.

[@BlindOracle00]

@@NoticemeSinPi yugioh doesnt have multiplayer formats so cards that effect an opponent just say "your opponent"

[@NoticemeSinPi]

@@BlindOracle00 and to Magic that would mean targeting which leyline wouldn't allow

[@lamvutran9345]

@@NoticemeSinPi funnily enough, yugioh cards mostly never specific if they target a player or not, since there is only one card in the entire game that mention such an interaction, namely: mystical refpanel, so unlike what you're thinking hexproof to a player might not translate that well to YGO. Take Masquerade from the Branded deck for instance. It just create a clause that said "the opponent must pay 600 LP to active any card or effect" without ever target anyone, So if that card was played first, the game is practically over since with 20 life the magic player wouldn't be able to even put card on the playing mat. All in all, this is mostly just a funny vid. The two games are so vastly different that I don't think we can ever fuse them together and said who had the better chance at winning. Like, how do you translate flipping things face down or spell speed to magic?

[@NoticemeSinPi]

@@lamvutran9345 ah, y'all have a somewhat different definition of burn. Burn to Magic would be mostly spell speed 2 spells that deal directly to the opponent and some small creatures that usually get stronger for the turn as you cast spells. We would consider Masquerade as more of a tax effect, though usually it would cost additional mana to cast/activate or do damage in response to cast activate.

[@cerealforserious]

I love this video! I would love to see this revisited with some other ideas from both sides. Maybe a red deck with card effects that leave you at 1 hp? build up as many goblins as you can and see if you can actually kill him 😂 but tbh I think blue is the only viable strat with the instant pressure

[@stone5against1]

Adam's face at 12:00 .. you can see the braincells leaving his body hahaha

[@MyName_IsGeoff]

Id love to see this again with Adam not being cocky and bringing a structure deck lol

[@MercenaryPen]

if Adam had seriously prepared I imagine the deck would have been heavy on hand-traps and other negates, with just a little access to burn cards to constantly threaten lethal... what is absolutely unnecessary in this matchup is the massive beatstick vanilla monsters he chose to bring this time

[@NiiRubra]

We need a rematch from the Yu-gi-oh channel where Adam puts on his serious pants.

[@jacobcampbell797]

The best deck would just be one composed entirely of burn cards

[@SicDrykEst]

@@MercenaryPen 40 copies of Sparks would do it, because you can't counter them all

[@YukiFubuki.]

play horus of black flames, its immunity to spells would just win the game on its own

[@sentaukrai]

I'm actually quite surprised. The brainwash/counter method seems like the only feasible option to win with the rules that are seemingly at play here. I was thinking something along the lines of poison counters. Although i nearly did a spit take at seeing SPARKS of all things nearly FTK/OTK as the singular first move.

[@Aurora_Veill]

My solution was a variation of Legacy naus-tendrils with brain freeze instead of tendrils as a finisher to mill the opponent out. Alternatively an infinite mana combo like devoted Druid + swift reconfiguration into some sort of infinite mana outlet like Kenrith or walking ballista would work as well

[@DanaOtken]

I was actually initially thinking of instant win condition cards, and secondly of shutting the board down plus milling. Not that blue isn't my primary colour (in blue/black/white), but I mildly dislike stealing cards (copying is another matter, but that doesn't work so well with physical card games) or excessive countering.

[@DnDJordanL]

I loved the Kaiba Roleplay “Draw your last pathetic card” lol and I was surprised magic came out on top lol

[@Mattball82]

His reaction at the end when you asked how many cards in his deck 😂

[@ThereIsAnExtension2UndoHandles]

I was actually thinking about this myself, and I came to the conclusion that it would have to be really old school Yugioh, and/or magic would need a HUGE handicap, though I'd be REALLY excited to be proven wrong

[@ThereIsAnExtension2UndoHandles]

burn damage is an instant loss for example, even the weakest burn spell of all time does 200 damage, hope you're playing mono white life gain lol

[@ThereIsAnExtension2UndoHandles]

oh, they got to the "no mana spent" section, void mirror may not have been the game destroyer some people thought in mtg, but in yugioh? and chalice of the void as well. tho that assume we count monsters as spells I suppose

[@aidan_savage]

@@ThereIsAnExtension2UndoHandles if we’re allowing fast mana and all cards unrestricted then T1 combos aren’t even that terribly difficult. Could I name them? No. But I’m very sure they exist

[@ThereIsAnExtension2UndoHandles]

14:30 Carl not knowing that without cards on the field, there's absolutely nothing a structure deck can do on his turn, is very funny to me

[@bwhitta]

Tasha's Hideous Laughter makes it a tad bit more "fair" - it costs 1uu and wins the game.

[@SymbolCymbals2356]

It’d only take ten poison counters regardless of the huge life total

[@cephery8482]

ok but every yugioh card has trample, it'd be ftk or broke

[@SymbolCymbals2356]

​@@cephery8482 Low mana card counter-spell instants to prevent the yugioh player from playing anything. While locking down the opponent, play low mana cards with infect and boost their attack up with instants, sorcerys, and enchantments

[@peterhacke6317]

@@cephery8482 i don't know how you would interpret attack and defence position in magic, but yugioh generally only 'tramples' if the defender is in attack position.

[@cephery8482]

@@peterhacke6317 i mean going as basic as it gets, since they said yugioh player declares attack targets, something tapped out can still block cause the defender doesnt need to assign it, anything tapped out is in def position, anything not is in atk mode. so yeah, dare not have a single card not sideways for a single turn.

[@cephery8482]

@@SymbolCymbals2356 this video is showing the weakest of the weak yugioh decks, like only basic lands and on curve vanilla beaters, at best a magic player can have 3 negates turn 1, 4 turn 2. yugioh player would have 5 and 6 cards respectively. and against an mtg deck they only ever need 1 to resolve to win and could absolutely fit 40 individual cards that can each force out a response or win instantly. your only hope is to build in a very specific way around chalice. a yugioh decks out's to chalice are: 1. setting any monster, setting does not count as summoning so wouldnt be a cast for the purposes of chalice. this way if the opponent ever declares a not unblockable attack, yugioh player just assigns the set monster as a blocker and cause of how yugioh works, the magic player takes damage equal to how much it's strength was lower than thr monsters def, so lethal damage. 2. outstanding dog marron, this card has an ability (so again not a cast) in which if it's every in the graveyard (like if it was countered) it just put's itself back in the deck. this makes it impossible to lose by mill. 3. galaxy cyclone, a card with another ability in grave so not a cast to destroy a face up non creature card, can out a chalice from under it. basically a magic player needs to exactly open chalice, and then find a way to win with exclusively unblockable infect creatures before the yugioh player finds a single copy of galaxy cyclone. it is possible, it's not very likely.

[@mosgon]

This is hilarious! I feel like for a more fair comparison the little pips on a monster could be CMC, but this was way funnier

[@Pathoslogical]

Loved this one, obviously a silly premise but the creativity was great!

[@lukespeers2466]

If we are messing with cmc Chalice for 0 seems like the way to play. Void mirror could be the tech too

[@bwhitta]

Tasha's Hideous Laughter is a good payoff - 1uu to win the game.

[@wigglytough5745]

That's literally what he does

[@potato_cm]

A modification of vintage shops seems really good for this. Ensnaring bridge, sphere of resistance, lodestone golem, as you said chalice

[@MaiaNetliss]

@@potato_cm for real. It's essentially bringing floodgate turbo backed up by hand trap solemn judgements

[@highroller5335]

funny enough a friend showed me some creatures in ygo like fire cracker that effectively have an activated ability that reads "discard this card: deal 1k damage" and soo unless the magic player also has stifles those are basically uncounterable lethal burn spells

[@outsider8209]

To be fair, for the last duel you can argue since a monster is not a spell in ygo that he could normal and tribute, he just can't play spells or traps

[@DanaOtken]

Definitely, it's a question of whose paradigm dominates. I'd argue that if we're allowing all the stuff ingrained in YGO to encourage "play fast, play hard, play dramatic" we're also allowing all the heritage of M:tG (even if a lot of it has been eroded) to encourage potential interference with every part and subpart of another player's plays.

[@ZeoThatZomi]

Exactly, I was rereading the card so many times thinking "so how does this stop me from just playing my turn? "

[@hmvollbanane1259]

Though in Magic spell just means card other than land cards who don't go on the stack. There are also more specific counter spells that negate solely creature spells and non creature spells. Does Yu-Gi-Oh have a stack? So when I'd play an effect monster that triggers upon entering the battlefield and my opponent counters it with a bottomless pit trap (iirc that name correctly from back when), does the monsters effect still go off? If yes then I agree that counterspells should not work against Yu-Gi-Oh monsters, if the effect wouldn't go off then I would argue that Yu-Gi-Oh uses a stack (I think you call it chain) and hence counters can work as intended by the MTG rules within the Yu-Gi-Oh rules

[@outsider8209]

@@hmvollbanane1259 to answer this is really a loaded question in yugioh, but we call a "stack" a "chain link"/"chain" and whether a card resolves is determined by the text (Though most cards have to be on field to resolve minus a few conditions which pop up somewhat frequent). Though I was mostly arguing the "monsters aren't spells" is cause there is a bit of a paradox cause while magic everything besides a land is a spell you could argue that when it targets spell so "any card", then again it could be said in yugioh only very specific cards or spells and the magic spell would have to say "target and destroy one card on the field".

[@AbsurdAsparagus]

@@hmvollbanane1259 normal summoning does not start a chain/stack, it should be treated similarly to placing a land for turn. it is a game rule, not an effect of the card, there is no activation, there is no "cast".

[@ichguckegerneyoutube8837]

Hi, if there ever is a rematch, I have some tips and some decks for it, since me and a friend of mine did something like this as well. We played three times with three different decks yugioh vs magic in a best of 5 format. The Yugioh player played real decks and so did I. we had no ban lists and we were allowed to use proxies. I, as the magic player, brought three different, but similar decks to the table. (i do not have decklists, but i can describe what the plan was and the crads that were in there) 1) Dimir control: manabase: -original duallands -watery grave -fetchlands -mostly islands -some swamps (so every land enters untapped for a good manabase in this very fast format) winconditions: -chalice of the void -tashas hideous laghter (these two cards basicsally win you the game if either of them resolves) other cards: -standart blue free counterspells( force of negation; force of will) -nix -subtlety -inquisition of kozilek -fatal push -thoughtseize - -also Leyline of Anticipation (so you can win if they start with chalice(sideboard)) -ancestral recall -black lotus 2) azorious control: manabase: -original duallands -hallowed fountain -fetchlands -mostly islands -some plains (so every land enters untapped for a good manabase in this very fast format) winconditions: -chalice of the void -tashas hideous laghter (these two cards basicsally win you the game if either of them resolves) other cards: -standart blue free counterspells( force of negation; force of will) -nix -subtlety -silence -path to exile -swords to plowshares -solitude -ancestral recall -black lotus -also Leyline of Anticipation (so you can win if they start with chalice(sideboard)) -and a leyline of Sanctity (if they have a lot of burn(sideboard as well)) 3) memey thassas oracle deck: manabase: -original duallands -watery grave -fetchlands -some islands -some swamps (so every land enters untapped for a good manabase in this very fast format) winconditions: -thassas oracle -demonic consultation -black lotus other cards: -free counterspells -grief and subtlety -leyline of anticipation -ancestral recall -other cheap interaction how do you win? Decks 1 and 2 win either by locking the opponent out of the game with chalice or mill the entire deck of the yugioh player, until this is done everything they play is going to get countered Deck 3 wins turn one by having a thassas oracle, a demonic consultation and a black lotus and a swamp and some free/cheap interaction in hand, if not, good luck winning... Rating the decks worst to best: the worst deck is obviously 3... with that one i only won a single game out of 4 which isnt good at all the second best deck is deck 1, i won two games out of 5 the best deck is the second, the exiling of the creatures makes it a lot better than the removal since graveyard interaction is a thing in yugioh. all in all i hope this helps the right side win the rematch or at least give some ideas for deckbuildung

[@ibrobaifett7493]

That evil laugh at the end is every blue player countering someone’s serotonin

[@Barracius]

That game 2 was absolutely incredible. Every turn they played in it was simply phenomenal.

[@clam3405]

True, mulliganing twice for game! What a masterful move

[@amosbirb2616]

That and I'd call activating a trap an activated ability or a special ability like turning a morph face-up

[@Imawesomedude20]

My brain immediately went "20 black lotuses 20 ancesteral recalls and the splinter twin combo then call it a day"

[@alanhe4476]

activate droll

[@Cumrel]

I need more this type content with different card games

[@navo6283]

This is something I've wanted to witness for YEARS! 😂 You've earned another subscriber.

[@CardmarketMagic]

Thank you! :) is there anything else TCG related you've wanted to witness?

[@navo6283]

@CardmarketMagic Off the top of my head? Uh... Mixing Magic formats together to see what happens? Like a commander/oathbreaker deck (With a normal commander, a planeswalker for the oathbreaker side, and the instant/sorcery you get for the oathbreaker side) and 97 cards for the main deck, 96 if you got partners. Then add planechase and archenemy to the mix with 4 players. Let chaos ensue!

[@laserwolf65]

I'm really glad that the Yu-Gi-Oh deck used was a super old structure deck with nothing but vanillas. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the MTG deck could've done.

[@emilianoflcn]

Aside from die? Depends on the decks. It just comes down to the power level of the decks. Both games have insane turn 1 combos but also interrupts from hand. Both have decks that demolish the other and both have decks like the one adam used that's rather slow

[@Yillnik]

2:37 Three of those haha, I remember the time I switched from Yugioh to magic and always just build 3 in my deck..

[@cartoonjunky9913]

Yea as soon as I saw the title I got excited. Probably can't do it through damage, however through multiple other ways i am sure it's possible. The first idea I had though was some sort of infinite mill combo. Nice!

[@_Not_Player_]

Fun fact: In the first match the risky counter was against a trap not a spell so theoretically it shouldn't have worked. Bit its kinda tricky playing magic against yugioh so I guess you may have changed traps to be spells too. Great and really fun video.

[@ZeroStrife1396]

I'm ok with traps being spells because they function similarly enough and not being able to interact with them would be busted, but that spell burst on the monster or the chalice at the end was the equivalent of trying to deny your opponent their land drops with them. You can trigger abilities when someone plays a land, but there's no "spell" to negate/deny.

[@petteriviitalahde7464]

the converted mana cost being 0 could be argued in yugioh terms as not being a thing, same as an xyz monster not having a level means it can't be the target for cards that require a level

[@isaz2425]

In magic, things that don't have a mana cost (like tokens and lands) are considered to have a mana cost of zero for the purpose of spell and effects that look at something's mana cost.

[@loganhurley5590]

The not having a mana cost-situation is actually covered by Magic's rules. Lots of cards don't technically have a mana cost. When someone looks at those cards to check their cost, they see 0.

[@MerolLord]

In magic there are cards with no mana cost (suspend cards are an example) and when checked for mana cost, their CMC, it's zero, there is also creatures that level up.... so why not count that as a level? lol

[@aidenfanucci9523]

So I guess the conclusion of this comment chain is, each player looks at the opponents board with Thier own ruleset, and their card effects work from their own perspective.

[@outputcoupler7819]

The crossover content is just the best. There's so much more in common between our communities than there is different, I'm glad we're finally starting to mingle.

[@aaronr.k.9707]

Kinda surprised that the first thought wasn't Ghostly Prison or other tax-to-attack type of effects. Pair that with fast mana like sol ring and the Yugio player can't attack you 'cause they will never be able to pay the mana cost. Edit: Chalice of the Void was pretty a genius play.

[@Nightreavarr]

"oooh sparks okay i play-" "solom judgement....."

[@sadrobot5501]

Remember guys. 1 Magic LP = 400 Yugioh LP (for a more realistic translation later). Also, Chalice of the Void on 0... brutal

[@whgeek]

I think a fairer interpretation would be that tribute stars=cmc. That way the mtg deck would have to get a little more creative.

[@allenwalsh1180]

I don't know much about Yugioh, but that's about what you expect from magic if you allow any cards. Mulligan 20 times until you get the one card you need to win the in matchup. Does the deck win against anything else? Absolutely not, but we got 'em this time, boys. Edit: To be clear, I loved the video. I found it very funny.

[@xekon14]

You can only mulligan up to 7 times 🤫

[@seangoldman6833]

@@xekon14 Time to throw in the Serum Powders.

[@delta3244]

There exists a reasonably strong MtG deck in this format which just plays 4x serum powder, free countermagic/similar, maybe a copy of a card which shuffles itself back into the deck on discard, and the silver bullet for every mono-axis Yugioh strategy (i.e. deck with only one gameplan), and aims to win games 2/3 by drawing the right one on turn zero. It probably loses to most Yugioh decks not created out of overconfidence, but as we saw, overconfidence is a difficult trap for Yugioh to play around in this format.

[@JonahUniverse]

I love both channels so this is so fun

[@andregon4366]

Now this is a crossover I wasn't expecting.

[@Narakiomal]

Oh man, I've been waiting for you guys to do these since forever! Please do more !!!

[@yohanesparuntu4980]

Seeing the hopelessness after chalice coming out is peak control. Exactly how I feel playing against chalice ever.

[@legendofeon]

That magic deck is overpowered. Using the best counterspells in the game. That yugioh deck was a starter deck and super underpowered. Would like them to see how they play against a 2023 standard yugioh deck

[@hitsurei]

even despia would obliterate him, lol

[@jordancaldwell2208]

I can't even tell you how much i enjoyed this 😂

[@Matsu2012]

Now even the Yu-Gi-Oh community understands why everybody hates blue.

[@aaronwildberger7927]

I don't hate blue

[@KonoNana]

@@aaronwildberger7927 I'm assuming you play blue then.

[@rovidelarosa]

@@KonoNana I play blue and I hate it (when my opponent does too).

[@melanieOh]

I'm 5 minutes in with no battle, but there's so much love put into this. This is so fun!

[@melanieOh]

It's genuinely silly and just good-spirited fun

[@laserbeastman7447]

Old vintage Stacks would be the hell deck for this matchup. Turn one Mishra’s Workshop into Trinisphere is a game ender.

[@frenzii8332]

That draw into dominate sent me lol

[@RickNeverGiveYouUp]

Imagine a game with mystic mine, Vanity's Emptiness, chalice of the void, Ensnaring Bridge, and all other best hate crad in both game, it would be an awesome match to play with.😂

[@RickNeverGiveYouUp]

"I cast ancestral recall" "Ash and Blossom" "DAMN!"

[@nathanwilkins6107]

Legend has it they’re still playing to this day

[@Fear910]

@@RickNeverGiveYouUp "I pay one blue to cast ancestral recall!" "ash blossom!" "ok..." "I cast ancestrall recall again I guess..." "Wut?! It's not once per turn?"

[@theblan1k0ne]

@@Fear910 I activate droll & lock bird

[@heccinparagon6633]

I was thinking a poison counter deck would be the most reasonable option, but yeah, this works

[@xakannax]

i had the same thought actually that poison would be busted if you could reliably do it in 1 turn, i def hadn't considered the number of spells that hurt 0 cmc cards I half expected the yugioh player to make the joke that only the green cards are considered spells when he kept countering stuff

[@arianl.100]

Poison counter does nothing if i get the format correctly. In magic you dont win by dealing 10 pc to an enemy, you loose by getting 10. In yu gi oh there is no rule that you loose with 10 poisom counters, so if adam has 8k life, and plays/dies by yugioh standards, then poison does nothing.

[@xakannax]

@@arianl.100 they merge the rules, in the match they did he was able to use cards that rely on CMC on yugioh cards and couter spells on all cards not just the literal spell cards that do in fact exist in yugioh, theres no reason alternative win cons would not apply still.

[@saitougin7210]

I guess this video was more refreshing to see than a relatively consistent YGO-deck dismantle a typical Magic-deck.

[@samcoursey28]

Alternative title someone plays a basic structure deck against the full power magic deck

[@CardmarketMagic]

The issue is that if you play a full power magic deck (like flash hulk or memory jar) it would just win on turn 1 and there wouldn't be a game to watch 😅 that's why we dumbed down the magic deck

[@cosmicprison9819]

“Did you just play three lands in one turn?” “Yeah, so what?” “That’s against the rules, isn’t it?” “Screw the rules, I have mana!”

[@joshuahadams]

That’s how I play Green.

[@cosmicprison9819]

@@joshuahadams “Screw the rules, I have green hair!”

[@Kajiyaification]

yeah but he played an explore

[@pizzamandhx]

I was skeptical of this channel at first. I wasn't sure the quality would be there. The quality of this video is 11/10. The moment the music cues up at 17:44 when Adam realizes what has happened, was magical. Adam's reactions to the goings-on were comedy gold. This singular video is one of the actual best MTG videos ever made. Very high production value plus very high quality content. I'm sold, Cardmarket. Keep up the good work!

[@CardmarketMagic]

Thank you :) that's such a kind review

[@oneovertwo1186]

That second round win deserves a punch in the neck.

[@maxparker7008]

"can a magic deck ever fairly beat a yu-gi-oh deck?" no. "can a magic deck beat a yu-gi-oh deck with technicalities?" oh yeah, baby.