Can I consistently shoot 1/2 MOA groups? Part 2

[@dominicteresi3835]

Definitely go down the rabbit hole I'm 100% confident you'll find the right load

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks

[@brianclair1323]

Overall, a great day!!! Anytime that a person can get some range time is always a great day!

[@PLL1652]

I never play with jump, I pick the bullet and load 5 different powders all about 2.5-5% below max. Always find atleast one that shoot sub moa. Powder determines group size more than anything else.

[@ronniehallmark1278]

I watch all your videos as I’m a reloader/shooter myself. Consistent 1/2 inch groups out of a hunting type rig is tough. I hear people state my gun shoots 1/4 inch groups all day. Ha yeah right. Any way As frustrating as it can be sometimes I just love when I get a particular load Combo that works. Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error and sometimes it’s easy. If a gun likes a powder or bullet it will shoot it really well as your working up. You definitely need to try another powder or bullet. I would probably change powders. Right now I have 3 308’s. 2 tikka t3 and one browning hells canyon. I got multiple loads with each rifle that shoot good from 130-165 grain bullets. My best performing load tho with velocity and accuracy comes from 48.5 gr of TAC AND 130 TTSX. ALL 3 shoot this load. 1/2 inch groups sometimes. 1 inch groups sometimes. Either way 3150ish velocity with consistent Moa or better in a hunting rig. I’m happy. Good luck

[@hopefulballistics]

@@ronniehallmark1278 I appreciate the comment! Yeah I’ve had good luck with TAC and 130 TTSX as well.

[@matrix5175]

I’d suggest a ladder test of your choice how many you want to load .5 grain increments at .005, .010, .015, .020, .025, and .030 seating depths. I usually do 3 or 5 at each seating depth with .5 grain increment increase in powder charge. If I can’t find a node after doing that, I switch powders or bullets.

[@northerntier87]

I love this paper target looks classy.

[@hopefulballistics]

@@northerntier87 I like it too

[@bisonriverartifacts188]

I enjoy your videos! I think the main thing I get from them is that you enjoy your time which is generally what we all need to do. I’ve chased zeroes in guns and bows and pulled my hair out. What I should have been doing is exactly what you do…enjoying the process.

[@Mmikejs72]

Really you should do standard load development with smaller powder charge changes until you get a decent group, and then do small bullet seating changes. If you aren't getting small enough groups, then you will need to change either powder or bullet. But, your gun may not be capable of it either. Good Luck, my friend. I'll keep watching!

[@donaldhebert2067]

I said last time that the bullets are too heavy for that barrel and stand by that.

[@craigsmith6710]

My vote is a different bullet same powder. If no luck, then try different powder.

[@TeamJesusOutdoors]

I have shot a couple of MOA groups with my Savage Axis, with factory ammo, but 1/2 moa is a whole different story.

[@ryanglass3570]

Great video, and I appreciate your honesty. Getting 1" groups out of a hunting gun is challenging to say the least, in my experience trying for .5 groups stay away from hornady, their manufacturing quality control is as bad as their sales propaganda machine. If I were trying to do what you are in that rifle it would be N540 with a 160 gr. class of berger or sierra bullets. Hopefully there is a part 3 I enjoy these kind of videos.

[@hopefulballistics]

@@ryanglass3570 thanks

[@dantep5570]

I've always had really good luck with eldm bullets. They seem way less finicky than the bergers I've handloaded

[@Simon-talks]

i've always gotten great groups with just about all of Hornady bullets in various rifles.

[@justinappling614]

I really enjoyed this video series. Maybe try a different powder with this bullet or change bullets. I would really enjoy seeing you try different combinations and continuing with this series

[@hopefulballistics]

Thank you!

[@1980poormanshooter]

I’ve been working on a load for my friend’s 308 tried max to min with varget best group was 2 inch watched your video and bought some tac velocity jump way up like your video did got a 1 1/4 group went and bought some StaBall match the blue label I lost about a 100 fps but I got a .771 moa at 100 yards

[@randysmith8604]

Your rifle may be picky on the grn of pill or the brand. What rifle are you loading for. I have 3 308 and all I have no issues with sub moa at 100 if I do my part.

[@1980poormanshooter]

It’s a hell’s canyon speed 22 in barrel 1-12 twist I got a browning a-bolt and rem.700 in 308 they love varget powder

[@randysmith8604]

@@1980poormanshooter in my experience the 1/12 needs a light bullet try not going over 150 grn. Im guess on this but maybe try loading for a speed around 2800 not a super fast load also just a guess. All of mine like that speed and only up to a 168 grn max for my guns. two are a 1/10 and 1 is a 1/11 . The 1/11 likes lighter bullets better . All are a 22 inch barrel. I use primarily varget but I have made some Good loads with BLC-2

[@1980poormanshooter]

I’ll try a 130 grain thanks

[@MisterBrewer]

I have enjoyed the series. I didn't think you would accomplish it either, 😅. No offense! The one inch five shot groups were good! Im glad you enjoyed it as well. That said, I would love to see you keep trying and prove us wrong!

[@xforce708]

If you’re having fun keep trying.

[@robertbroxson4582]

Keep going. I’ve been struggling with a couple loads also

[@hopefulballistics]

@@robertbroxson4582 I appreciate it

[@kylecasetta4091]

Having a savage axis in 2506 I am enjoying this. Best I've gotten was 3/4 inch at around, 100 yds with factory ammo, mostly I get around 1.5. I'd say you're doing dang good for such a cheap rifle

[@JCJustice-kv2gy]

Add powder, go and stay with 20 thou off the lands. No pressure move up young man

[@nekminet1315]

I’d try some Berger VLD’s Very sensitive to seating depth but when you find the right spot they stack

[@Off-target-xy6bx]

Love the content. Here’s my opinion. It’s completely worthless but maybe it helps the algorithm. I believe the bullet selection is a big factor. I have seen light for caliber put some small groups together. I think the recoil on the light barrels is part of the reason. I could be totally wrong but maybe a 125 matchking or something similar might help. Sometimes those varmint loads group really well. Anyway it’s a thought. Happy shooting and I appreciate your channel it keeps things interesting.

[@hopefulballistics]

Interesting, thanks

[@travispeltier6486]

I have found the Savage Axis stocks are flimsy and flex quite a bit even on a bench rest. This can lead to inconsistent holds that throw off your groups. Not sure if you can find a stiffer stock that keeps you below $1000 to see if a change in the stock-only tightens your groups (e.g. swap to a relatively inexpensive Boyds stock).

[@chaddfry5345]

Interesting video. A rifle that truly shoots an aggregate group size of 1/2 MOA is hard to achieve with a factory rifle, but I think you should continue the series. The easiest thing to do would be to clean the barrel and try the best load again. From my experience, that particular bullet/powder combo won't get you there. The individual components are all good, but the rifle doesn't seem to like the combo (relatively speaking). You might want to try a few different bullets and powders to see if you can get a load that shoots sub-MOA from the start.

[@hopefulballistics]

I appreciate it

[@308guy8]

Your velocity is way down. i think you would do better with speeds somewhere around 2800, but i didn't catch what grain bullets you are shooting. 165 to 178 varget and reloader 15 do well in my 308s and 150gr bullets with IMR 4064 shoots really good My load for my tikka lite 308 for 150gr sierra bt sp hunting load is 45gr imr 4064 at 2930fps and i use varget and reloader 15 for 168 and 178 pills at 2800fps hope this helps some

[@hopefulballistics]

I usually would 100% agree, but I intentionally slowed it down for accuracy purposes. So…. you might be right.

[@ronlowney4700]

YES, CHANGE POWDER COMPLETELY!

[@hopefulballistics]

@@ronlowney4700 to what?

[@ronlowney4700]

@@hopefulballistics Another Temperature Stable Powder! You Pick!

[@hopefulballistics]

@@ronlowney4700 what’s with all the capital letters and exclamation points? You yelling at me? Lol

[@ronlowney4700]

@@hopefulballistics NOPE! 🤭

[@hopefulballistics]

@@ronlowney4700 OKAY!!

[@warrenpolidori5541]

I have not been very successful with secant ogive bullets without spending a lot of time playing with seating depth. They do work one you dial it in. Starts to get expensive and frustrating. Been shooting a 700 VSSF in 308 that shoots almost anything well. That heavy barrel makes a difference IMO. Hope you don't drive yourself crazy in the meantime. Good luck!

[@hopefulballistics]

@@warrenpolidori5541 I appreciate it!

[@shanerhodes925]

Hey ya never know. Maybe that bullet and barrel just do not gwt along. Cant hurt to tey a different bullet and or powder. Thats the fun of reloading is trying different things with each rifle until you nail down that perfect load.

[@hopefulballistics]

@@shanerhodes925 true

[@nikos6220]

Awesome SDs. And I have to eat crow, I was absolutely convinced that the chamber formed brass and the better scope would make a difference. I’ll check GRT if you likely have full burn, that seems to be sometimes messing with precision

[@hopefulballistics]

I appreciate it

[@courtlandgraham8392]

It’s your research , go with it . I’m wondering why I see a RED “J” series cab buried in the weeds of a fence line ? That thing should be sitting next to the blue one , those are fine trucks in my opinion. Have fun with your research , I do with mine .

[@lylewalters909]

Definitely get rid of varget!! get barnes bullets.

[@hopefulballistics]

@@lylewalters909 which Barnes bullet?

[@SpudOutdoors]

To me 5 shot groups mean nothing. Competition rifles sure. Hunting rifles 3 shot. My Kimber mountain ascent 30-06. Super thin barrel. Will do 4 shots and always throw the 5.. also for load development. Do 3-5 groups. 30k apart in jump. 1 grain off max charge. Find what seating rifle likes. Then do a ladder test. Then fine tune the jump by going every .003 or .006, then eventually down to .001. This will get the best accuracy. Also if your using Lee dies. Pull the decapping pin out. Only size body and bump shoulder. Will size neck down also. Then use a mandrel and set final tension. .0035 interference fit works great. This will also help in accuracy. Makes your base to Datum on the brass more consistent. Cut your primer pocket depth to be true saami length. Then properly measure your primers and pockets and provide adequate crush. Measure your firing pin protrusion. Make sure your between .050 and .065 for good ignition. Make sure to not lube your firing pin up. Temp swings will affect its ignition. All these things can make you shoot very tiny groups. Most of my rifles will do 2” or less at 300 yards. 100 yards never proves best loads. 100 is where I start but 300 is where I eliminate loads.

[@BZE_Fishin]

I wouldn’t run any ball powders…stick with extruded. I would do a bullet change if it were me and…a different powder. Regardless…the Axis likely will never get there but…enjoy yourself…it’s your time so enjoy it on your terms!

[@ragnarrloobrok70]

I'm going to sound as if I'm telling you how to reload but Trying to get such a small group size with 5 shots with that rifle is first off going to be very hard as I mentioned in the last video!! Second you are playing with to many variables at once!! Varget is an outstanding powder and if you want to get the most out of it you are going to have to make small incremental changes like 3 tenths at a time looking for the velocity nodes. Once you have found a few nodes which you should, load more within the nodes and refine from there. Once you have the best grouping from all that, move into seating depth testing starting from 20 thousands off. Move in 5 to 10 thousand increments. You should see some improvement with seating depth. Having said that, I believe your goal is achievable but you will require patience and testing! You may need a different powder or bullet but don't switch from the current combination until you have made sure it is not going to work. If you don't have the patience to test in small increments one thing at a time, you will never succeed! By the way, just today I installed a new barrel on my savage 308 ( CarbonSix ) Shot three rounds of federal 168 match to zero, then shot six of my hunting reloads ( Barnes 168 ttsx/ Varget) with a few powder tweaks to increase velocity 2750 and put three in the same hole on the third .3 increase without a bipod or rest!!

[@hopefulballistics]

I appreciate it

[@superbeast-lq3ft]

bullets from 150grs to 165grs are best in a 308 .

[@ronlowney4700]

OR, CHANGE BULLETS!

[@hopefulballistics]

@@ronlowney4700 to what?

[@ronlowney4700]

@@hopefulballistics Something Heavy and Bonded!

[@hopefulballistics]

@@ronlowney4700 you think bonded bullets are more accurate than match bullets.

[@ronlowney4700]

@hopefulballistics Not Usually, But If You Intend To Hunt With What You Have Developed, Then Why Not Kill To Birds With One Stone? I Believe in the Cartridge and Your Tikka Barrel!

[@nextzipcode]

Is it impossible, ...no...but...eh...personally I don't think you'll be able to get there with the equipment you have. I really like the 308. Sadly, the rifles I have chambered in it won't compare with yours for me to analyze since they don't meet the budget build cost. Varget is my go-to powder for 308 and 43.5 is my go-to charge for a 175 gr Match King. If you don't get under 1 moa with that combo, then you won't get it with anything. I used to be like you, measuring the distance to everything. Forget it...load to mag length...mess only with the powder charge. Also, use a bipod and shoot prone... I've done a lot of load development and shooting off a rest like that has only frustrated me. There is so much inconsistencies in the pressure on your shoulder and how the gun recoil from shot to shot on those lighter guns. You could have a 1/2 gun but the recoil is control is not allowing you to see the benefits. Are you near Virginia? If so send me a message. I'd love to show you what I mean on my own range. Thanks for the video.

[@hopefulballistics]

@@nextzipcode thanks. I’m not near Virginia

[@ronlowney4700]

🤭 After Spending Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars and 3 Years Testing Hundreds of Hunting Rifles, Jim Harmer (Backfire TV) Has Finally "Figured Out" That The Best Value Budget Hunting Rifle is The Tikka T3X and The Best Overall Factory Hunting Rifle is Sako! 🤑 If Only He Would Have Listened To Me 3 Years Ago! 🤪 Their is a Valuable Lesson Here! 🤭

[@js7127]

There are purists then some not so pure. As long as they are being safe and enjoying the ride, who cares. Some poeples just need to bash on others, sad. Think you have found its minute of "axis", still not bad. I have a 6Rem dime shooter and a 35 whelen quarter shooter, douglas n shilen barrels. Neither particular about loads, I go in 1gr increments n see very little difference. I will have to get ogive attachment for my calipers. Thanks, I learned from your test and that makes it a good day.

[@hopefulballistics]

@@js7127 I appreciate it

[@RickeySpurgeon]

I don’t have a utube channel yet but I got 3 guns that shoot 1/2 minute

[@hopefulballistics]

Good deal

[@lmbear]

Did you not work up your load, as in OCW? I'd also do a .002" shoulder bump, not .003". Have you checked to see what kind of concentricity your loads are producing? In order to shoot and maintain 1/2 moa groups, you need to be loading straight ammo. Meaning sub .003" TIR on a concentricity gauge. Also, clean your damn brass. Accuracy is all about consistency in your brass prep, good barrel, and a properly glass bedded rifle in good scope mounts with a good proven scope. You are one that always tries to shoot way too hot. Meaning over book loads. You need to learn to work up using OCW, and watching for good accuracy nodes. This isn't hard to do.

[@hopefulballistics]

@@lmbear you need to to learn how to have respectful discourse with others. I do not load my ammunition way over pressure. If it is over I will tell you. I would appreciate if you would stop claiming I do.