Can ITX save Intel?

[@spektrumB]

Very hard to understand why motherboard makers release feature rich ITX boards for CPUs(Intel) no one will buy. While AMD Ryzen ITX boards got stuck in stoneage.

[@GearSeekers]

I couldn't agree more. It's outrageous. I will say one really interesting thing about X870 though. A lot of motherboard vendors are scrambling right now because they put all their eggs in 1 basket with Z890 and are currently pumping out some new X870 boards we haven't seen yet. CES will have LOTS of new boards we haven't seen.

[@Athasin]

It's so frustrating and really makes me think there are under the table deals going on between MSI and Intel.

[@AbbeyRPG]

YES! on my country marketplace theres no single x870 itx motherboard. meanwhile theres bunch of new z890 and no one buying it.

[@GearSeekers]

@@Athasin There is nothing under the table about it. It's obvious that it happens with every vendor not just MSI. Just looking at motherboard lineups tells the whole story. One thing that I've noticed in Asian markets is that Intel is still king. It doesn't matter what the performance is like it still sells better than say in NA, EU and ANZ.

[@shraf2kay]

@@GearSeekers AMD people dont buy new mobos like intel buyers do. the downside of socket longevity is companies arent incentivized to make mobos to sit on shelves till your b450 dies.

[@euphoria842]

I wish the motherboard makers weren't pressured into releasing 8x the amount of intel boards over AMD. Especially when AMD is currently the go-to in the DIY space.

[@GearSeekers]

This is kinda the reason why I wanted to make this video too. I wanted to open up a discussion with everyone about what people really want. I would love some AM5 ITX boards that had anything even remotely close to even the ASRock boards feature set.

[@douglasmurphy3266]

​@@GearSeekersIt may be the way AMD restricts and requires certain features for A B and X boards. "A620" or "X870" aren't just chipsets, but also platforms which AMD defines. Nothing about an A620 would technologically prohibit you from wiring any of the CPU PCIe lanes as Gen 5 or as USB4 but in order to be an A620 board you can't utilize all of what is already there. On the high end I don't really know all of the requirements but I'm guessing something is either physically impossible to implement in ITX or is very cost prohibitive.

[@the12gaugeshotty]

AMD hasn't been the "go to" since they jacked their prices up. Back when they were the clear value winner due to lower prices they were the go to for DIY. But currently Intel is the only manufacturer actually dropping prices on their processors.

[@LordApophis100]

@@douglasmurphy3266 Nope, Intel paying off board makers to limit AMD offerings. Check out HUB podcast where Steve explains what people in the industry told him.

[@LordApophis100]

@@the12gaugeshotty Intel is dropping prices because no one is buying them. AMD has had 80-90% of the DIY market for the last couple of years. Mindfactory, one of the largest German retailers, didn't sell a single Arrow Lake CPU in the first week or so after launch. That's how bad Intel is currently in DIY.

[@AshtonCoolman]

These are nice boards. Hopefully some UEFI and Windows 11 software fixes can improve Arrowlake's performance.

[@chris51911]

My MSI Z690i Unify has 3x m.2 slots, and I love it!

[@StrixWar]

everyone complained about intel's power draw, but when they start to fix it everyone says the opposite, make up your mind people

[@BreakingDimes]

yes we wanted lower power draw and more perf but if this matched raptor lake in everything with its current power draw it would have been an absolute banger of a CPU arch

[@StrixWar]

@ the CPUs beat 14th gen in majority of productivity workloads. Only thing that’s slower really is gaming. But that will probably be improved with the next generation.

[@theordinarydude2104]

I think Intel needs to lean hard into mini-pcs with Battlemage equipped IGPs. I know I'm going that route, both a pc and a Mac Mini.

[@johnbernhardtsen3008]

would be cool as heck, would save loads of money instead of buying big power hungry gpus for content creators!

[@ZaesTakeOnTech]

If only intel didn’t sell off all their nuc stuff to asus because they are so broke! 😂

[@xanira6367]

seeing as new bios updates fixed the 13th/14th gen cpus, i decided to pull the trigger on the Asus strix b760i for just €133. pretty stoked since its supposedly possible to undervolt on that board (to contextualize the value, you can get that board with a 14600k for €333)

[@lokisigmatron6536]

@@xanira6367 I just did the exact same thing with a 13600k because it's 1/3 the price of an am5 board with a 9800x3d with only a 35% reduction in gaming and for other computing tasks Intel is typically surperior. Now is the time to buy in America before Trump imposes tarrifs.

[@xanira6367]

@lokisigmatron6536 yeah my exact thinking. People discourage it because of the "dead" platform, but I'm not going to be upgrading for another 6 years anyway lol

[@gbitencourt]

@@lokisigmatron6536 35% in 1080p

[@lokisigmatron6536]

@@xanira6367 we are on the same page my friend. Clearly CPUs aren't progressing very fast anymore.

[@reallycome1]

I am so glad you showed me the MSI as this is the one I ordered on Amazon UK. I do like an ITX board as I come form the compact Apple world. I don't want a huge tower on my desk. This with the silver NCase, Grilled Front - will look amazing! Thank you!

[@BarisYener]

Gaming Performance of this plattform is a bit over the place, but for work it is great/better then AMD or 14th Gen alternatives in almost every case!

[@lucasucx]

The difference at 4k or 1440p doesn't even exist. The only difference is everything about 1080p.

[@Athasin]

It literally pisses me off that MSI doesn't make a X870I that has the same features as the Z890I ... just *WHY?? Why do they keep snubbing AMD???*

[@GearSeekers]

It's coming soon!

[@zagohcap]

Sooner or later those Intel anti-competitive backroom deals will come to an end.

[@Patrick73787]

Z890 is simply the better chipset vs X870E in terms of platform capabilities. You will never have feature parity between Z890 and X870E. Go blame AMD for making X870E a simple X670E refresh with no new features.

[@Typhex27]

These look really promising, especially at their pricing. Too bad lunar Lake is doa, wish these companies would put this kind of effort into the am5 platform.

[@GearSeekers]

I agree! We need better ITX AM5 boards!

[@Weezedog]

Is there anyone else out there like me that hates daughter boards on MBs and who wouldn't touch that MSI board with a 10-foot pole?

[@GearSeekers]

I'm split because I like that it adds another M.2 slot but I hate that it does it on an add-in card

[@WildRule9]

I loathe the daughterboard approach

[@the12gaugeshotty]

Lack of options with lack of space. Cannot build wider so they have to make it taller. Only other option is behind the motherboard.

[@iam4740]

Gpu's will have daughter boards too... just makes sense for upcoming tech to end users.

[@oil3]

That MSI board has me super excited to see their x870-I offering 🤤

[@JohnSmith-xi9nd]

The first couple of iterations of a new architecture are going to be lack-luster. Got to give them time to figure it out.

[@GearSeekers]

To be fair we did see this when the Pentium 4 launched about 24 years ago. WOW I'm old.

[@LordApophis100]

Problem is, Intel doesn't really have a new microarchitecture. They cancelled their first new since the P4, Royal Core, to only incorporate certain aspects into their current line.

[@thetheoryguy5544]

And to be honest ARL is not even bad unless you game at 1080 and is better at productivity task then AMD. I just hope the Microcode patch can match it with 14th gen in gaming. It actually surpasses it now with CUDIMM so who knows with the patch and CUDIMM it might be a monster.

[@drewnewby]

@GearSeekers I still fire up the Prescott when the room gets a bit chilly.

[@BreakingDimes]

that would be fine if it was cheaper

[@TheJamesKF]

Agree that Intel gets more love not only in itx but most motherboard form factors. Its a problem that AMD needs to sort with the board partners. I have the z790 ATX Nova board for my 12900k system and it has been absolutely bullet proof. Tons of features for the price and just a really nice mobo. Its super stable and fast enough for games and workstation use. I wont put a 13th or 14th series CPU on it due to the issues with those. So it will run its life on the 12900k. Just this week I put together a game box with the 9800x3d and Asrock B650E itx board. Its IMO the best AM5 itx board we have currently for the money. I would love to see a x870 itx Nova board for AM5.

[@Reza1984_]

Those add on boards are notorious to working with in sff cases.

[@v0ldy54]

Idk, still feels like a niche that's too expensive and with too many compromises, especially now that there are many compact MicroATX cases that are a in a sweetspot between ATX and ITX

[@os8704]

Schönes Review ... 👍🏻 Ich finde das total Mist mit dieser sep. Platine auf dem Board ... das hat mich auch vom Kauf des Asus X870 ITX abgehalten ... Jetzt machen andere Hersteller das ebenso ... hoffe es kommen bald die 850er Boards raus ...

[@GearSeekers]

I think we'll see some B series boards in Jan.

[@TheEnigma6]

The MSI is missing the 2 mini-Display Port inputs from the z690i Unify(which supported 3 M.2 drives as well.) Also why is the more expensive board stuck with slower RAM? Is there Cudimm support?

[@stennan]

Agreed! B850 launch later after new year should lead to more AMD motherboards. I don't think that Manufacturers or retailers like stocking motherboards for processors that have not been selling well in the DIY market. But Intel probably has some partner agreements that stipulates some requirements on the manufacturers, don't make nicer things for other chipsets than Z890.

[@detriotswat]

The only 2 reasons I'd consider these are color and the potential of a new platform. But Intel needs to have a good cpu launch first.

[@Games_and_Tech]

I want to build an ITX PC for work, but ai refuse to use Intel and MSI, so let's purchase a mac mini m4 instead

[@michaelw2263]

I really wish AMD could get more ITX love. However, a trend I'm really beginning to hate with these boards are these breakout pieces. They make building in tight spaces super hard and I feel aren't necessary and just add to the inconvenience.

[@xer6334]

msi has to be one of my favourite board makers now

[@Athasin]

Nah their AMD boards are a pisstake.

[@xer6334]

@ look what the x870 tomahawk offers

[@Athasin]

@@xer6334 Okay correction, their AMD ITX boards are a pisstake.

[@xer6334]

@@Athasin i agree on that

[@JeSuisBacon]

That MSI board is insane for I/O and storage holy moly.

[@harryniedecken5321]

High frequency circuit board technology has been around a long time. Bringing the cost down will require giving up features. For example, do we really need more than 1 each wide slot for video cards? Do we really need the chipset?

[@sunefred]

MSI, Asus and Gigabyte really have lost touch with the SFF community. Only AsRock seem to understand that cooler combability is more important than I/O.

[@aldm1995]

I wish Asus would release their btf motherboard for AMD. They have the best btf motherboard because of how GPU power cables can be hidden.

[@MarcoGPUtuber]

Intel still has like 70% of the desktop market. They don't need saving. They need to be competing.

[@GearSeekers]

Thats also like saying that Ford had 100% market share of cars in 1908. Times change. I think you're right though. They do need to compete but with products like Arrow Lake they need to go back to the drawing board.

[@the12gaugeshotty]

@@GearSeekers Ford doesn't seem to have a problem in the market 120+ years later. $176.2 billion in revenue and over 177,000 employees. I don't think they are going bankrupt any time soon. Bad example.

[@drewnewby]

@the12gaugeshotty Revenue isn't what keeps you in business. They are struggling, their net is under 4 billion, and market cap a quarter of Intel, also in rough shape. Maybe go wash your Taurus instead of trying to talk business.

[@GearSeekers]

@@the12gaugeshotty I think you really missed the point here mate. When you're the only show in town there is not going to be competition. In regards to Marcos statement Intel has 70% because for a long time nothing was competing. You have to look at the other 30%. The other 30% is what matters.

[@Zombie101]

for now. nvidia are also working on CPU's, AMD now has a bigger share and more sales to date, only a matter of time if Intel do not inovate and fight back

[@OverpricedCosmetics]

This just breaks my heart as I’m looking at AM5 itx boards 😭

[@robertmorrison4020]

Be cool to have a mini DTX option like the ASUS x570 impact. More room for m.2 slots.

[@skorpysk]

The only thing that Will save intel, is not the Motherboards, it's only if they lower their prices, BELOW Amd instead of Above AMD, That's the only thing that could save them. Budget gamers

[@GearSeekers]

That will never happen unfortunately :(

[@auritro3903]

Considering that Intel is using a more advanced TSMC process, it's costing them a great deal of money to make these chips. They are likely already eating their margins with just producing these Arrow Lake chips, and I don't think they are gonna drop prices as much as they have with Raptor Lake, unfortunately.

[@dafyddthomas7299]

Small boards indeed - one would go for the MSI with most of its M2's above ground (3) but won't be the M2's on bottom of the board be hemmed in / compressed to the under side of the case that there will be insufficient cooling to cool these M'2's and run 2 hot ?. I still love full size ATX boards

[@All_Dead_In_Shimoda]

Heard you out mate but its a bust for this platform. The problem is companies are creating boards so far out of most people's budgets with features most wont use 🤷‍♂️ why they dont just release more boards with half the features at lower cost is beyond me. They are pricing enthusiasts out of the market and wonder why people are losing interest in PC's ... Just my 2c

[@GearSeekers]

I couldn't agree more!

[@Warden_Clyffe]

I think that at the moment the best available mITX AM5 boards are Asus ROG strix B 650E-I gaming wifi and ASRock B650I lightning wifi, in the latter only a weak audio chipset pumped up: Raltek ALC897. I don't think there will be anything better in the X870 ITX and younger B850E(I)

[@the12gaugeshotty]

With ITX most of your expansion is going to be external. There are a ton of higher quality USB audio options. The Schiit Magni Unity is a prime example.

[@boydolson5350]

All i want is a itx motherboard am5, 3-4x m.2s,h650 or b850 chipset. No break out connections or motherboards. Good usb coverage and full audio. Why is it so hard to find the product i want?

[@jeremybryant1976]

If AMD would provide feature rich ITX boards like this, there would be no turning back! AMD would be THE KING!

[@pablovi77]

Intel runs very hot on its builds.

[@miguelelias6109]

20 seconds into the video.... "No"

[@Frnk100]

NGL i hate the io card on my asus z790i. reason being that in sff builds space is at a premium so adding in this extra piece that sticks out makes cable management that much harder. many aios need that usb header so this board is a must use in that scenario. notice how the 24 pin connector is right on top of this board so when i use it im not able to use that space to manage the psu cables, basically you are pushed towards using custom psu cables.

[@AlyOopsieDaisy]

I see a lot of people asking why there are so many intel mobo compared to amd. I agree intel is dead in the water compared to amd but as of 2024 they still have a vastly superior market share. That’s probably cause of laptops but still, people like familiarity.

[@Vivi-tz2rl]

This gen feels like how Ryzen did when it came out; meh on launch but progressively better with each new iteration. Intel more or less said the same. Luckily for them their 12th-14th gen stuff is still really good and selling well as a buffer

[@GearSeekers]

I dunno. Ryzen's launch line up of boards weren't too bad. I think the B350 boards were pretty average but most of the X370 boards were pretty solid. The major issue was memory compatibility which was remedied pretty quickly.

[@Vivi-tz2rl]

@GearSeekers I meant moreso performance wise. It was just "okay" but it meant AMD could compare to Intel again. Now the tables have sort of flipped but they're still fairly competitive, so we'll have to see. Tbh though some Ryzen 1000-3000 series stuff I've built with updated BIOS still have USB issues

[@GearSeekers]

@@Vivi-tz2rl I think Ryzen's peformance per dollar at launch was pretty crazy though. Also remember when the Ryzen 7 1700 came out. That CPU changed everything for me.

[@camaro30th]

Is the PCIe 5 and m.2 Gen5 share the lanes of PCIe?

[@Kneedragon1962]

Can ITX save Intel? I don't know, but I doubt it. Ok, I am the wrong person to ask, because I lust for a R9-9950X for my Linux install, so what Intel does with board sizes ~ that's not going to make me buy one. There's no way on Dog's Green Earth I'm going to buy a current Intel processor, not at high end, not at low end, not in the middle.

[@dragonsystems5973]

MSI had a Z690 with 3 M.2, this isnt that new, also, ASUS did the header thing, so none of this is new or groundbreaking

[@jayprosser7349]

South bridge bus and lane switching kills file transfers amoung that many NVMe’s

[@auroraflash]

Can't beat 9800x3D in SFF

[@RomanVarl]

All Inter processors run hotter, that alone makes AMD more compelling for compact ITX builds.

[@H0ffnungsv0ll]

any updates on am5 btf matx boards?

[@MrDidifar]

Dang.. meanwhile my b650ei from asus, cost around 350usd (back then) only has 2 m.2.. amd needs to step up their board game..

[@Aerobrake]

I want to see intel do well but I don't trust them. My raptor lake cpu is degraded and they have just been super complacent. man...

[@nameresu]

How many slots? MSI: YES

[@Unamatrix01]

Intel's new desktop Arrow Lake platform is uninspiring.As to whether if ITX will save Intel,ITX is a form factor and thus will continue with AMD even if Intel's Arrow Lake processors are not wild adopted. With Intel converging the features of Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake shows the problem that Intel has since they ended their HEDT X-platform.

[@LeandroSFx]

Believe at Intel after hiding that the last generation had issues that Intel neglected till it got a huge espoused? No way. These itx motherboard are not cheaper, the cheaper stuff will always sell more, it is better to buy an AMD that is cheaper and there is no issue with the processors. Shame Intel.

[@Augusto9588]

I don't see the appeal, never felt the need for any of those so called "features".

[@ScooterFett]

make the boards cheaper so, and make the cases cheaper!!!

[@arcayne5814]

Good walk-through, thank you. Can ITX save Intel? No. Why? Because as much as I love SFF and the ITX form-factor, it is still a bit niche, and Intel needs volume sales right now for cash flow they desperately need. That said, I would not buy either of these mobos, even if they were for AMD processors. If a VRM is designed well enough and cooled with a properly designed heatsink, no active cooling should be needed beyond passive case airflow. Furthermore, I refuse to buy any ITX mobo that uses proprietary riser-boards and/or dongles. I do not mind having those mezzanine stacked M.2's as they keep the M.2 NVME SSD's cooled better than back-mounted bare M.2 slots (the ASUS Z490i was the perfect implementation for this), but all the other proprietary stuff I refuse to encourage and will therefore refuse to buy.

[@Mike-jb3xe]

Was waiting for Intel arrow lake, hoping that the 3nm would give Intel a comeback, and I could get a mATX board with thunderbolt, no X870 mATX board at the moment, ITX only has 2 slot ram. But man, Intel sucks so hard, can't even compete cheaper 4nm Ryzen, and that 10nm+++ now looks legendary considering the performance Intel could milk it. Eventually decided to go with B650M with no TB, sigh

[@TW-bh2mi]

Active cooling is pure trash the lil fans add noise plus they go bad easily and are not readily replacable. Just do proper passive heatsinks

[@teethashaquan5395]

Nah Arrow Lake is doomed in the DIY market. Good thing they got a monopoly on prebuilds and OEM markets tho that they can unload millions of ARL on like they did with crappy Rocket Lake. Can't say the same for AMD and vanilla Zen 5 though since those serve no purpose anywhere other than landfills.

[@auritro3903]

That's the unfortunate part. Arrow Lake isn't gonna sell at all in the DIY market, at least not until a microcode patch magically improves performance by like 10% or something, and prices remain high. However, luckily for Intel, they have deals with OEMs and prebuilts, and Arrow Lake is overall still going to end up outselling Zen 5 by a huge margin when considering the entire desktop market. Intel just needed a 'good enough' product in their eyes that does not require a nuclear power plant to run, that's all.

[@CHADCHOPS]

As far as Quality/Performance and cost goes, i'm done with intel. Same goes for Nvidia.

[@sixpath]

i think intel is doing just fine lol

[@justeddm]

An expensive tier can't save them

[@Zzzz...7]

Can ITX save Intel? Nope. Probably not.

[@marchufnagel9068]

I so dislike these tiny whiny fans on these types of boards.

[@l2evivel2]

MSI MPG Z890i is so beautiful but I will not buy it. Intel Core Ultra 200 really sucks.

[@stevewatson6839]

Just reproduce the feature set or anything else "interesting" that might be going on with these boards for the AMD platforms. Job jobbed. I've zero interest in anything Intel; unless it is the company dying altogether.

[@FrankOnline007]

nah ill stick to AMD. once its out there...

[@paulc8601]

Intel will be just fine.. simmer down

[@drewnewby]

They are not fine, but it's not because of DIY, or even the consumer market. Pat has nearly sunk the ship. His "IDM 2.0" was a bust, IFS is splitting, and they're exiting on the rest. CCG and DCG are taking a major hit, but there's far worse on the books.

[@josiahsuarez]

no

[@emineomax]

Nah

[@zagohcap]

This stuff is wasted on intel.

[@Ryhillchibulls]

.

[@Zombie101]

in a word, no. and Daughter boards suck ass

[@uhohwhy]

no, 15th gen suckoooo

[@JH-ms4ib]

No