The Boys Has a Shock Value Problem

[@captainmidnight]

What did you think of The Boys season 4? To try everything Brilliant has to offer for free for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/midnight You’ll also get 20% off an annual premium subscription.

[@justinriley]

I mostly liked it. But man, this show is beginning to turn into the very thing it's making fun of.

[@MasutaMJ]

I enjoyed it. Slowed down around mid season kind of. For the final season they need to Disney+ the budget and go all out. The final Homelander confrontation (however that concludes) needs to utilize him at his strongest.

[@Ebolachicken]

i think they went too long on a build up than a epic fight they got captured at the end i did not like

[@HawkknightXC88]

I wish it could had been better like Season 3. It felt ether too long with the politic stuff, or just disturbing like the one with Hughie and Tek knight lab. Which the episode with Tek Knight I 100% dislike for alot of reasons that was uncomfortable.

[@BlazingOwnager]

A terrible season that was basically the writers political blog until the last episode, which was great.

[@rebel_diamonds]

Frenchie goes to prison had to be the biggest waste of time since the casino planet in Last Jedi. This dumb detour, then in the next episode, he's just back doing his thing like nothing happened.

[@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_Bugle]

Yeah I pointed out this in some video, and how Kimiko being infected with virus was poor excuse to have one-legged dude run away, because we know Kimiko can regenerate entire limbs, so obviously Frenchie was gonna cut off her leg. Another complete waste was the entire Collin plotline, he didn't feel like a character, just plot device for Frenchie to have something to do, and fact that he just disappears from the show is evident enough. I just got bunch of trash comments saying I hate the show because I am right wing and other bs. Really, criticizing and pointing out lazy writing is now considered "right wing"?

[@hetterman10r9]

@@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_Buglemaybe i just forgot but the Kimiko shining light was just dropped and completely forgotten

[@ThelastShepherd.]

​@@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_BugleBro, this is exactly what happened to me.

[@seadee2834]

@@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_Bugle Colin existed to push Frenchie and Kimiko closer, something that wouldn't have needed to happen if Colin didn't exist and they just wrote them getting together. They way they wrote it, Kimiko saw Frenchie as nothing but a brother until he started fucking someone else and went to prison... That's what changed her...

[@TheJohnWhites]

Last Jedi Rocks

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

2:20 tek knight was so much more threatening in Gen V and was wasted potential, we never even got to see him in a suit

[@Planag7]

One of my favorite parts of that spin off

[@BlazingOwnager]

They completely ruined his character. I know they are nothing like the comics, but .. the non-stop political blogging because rich people Hollywood people hate all rich people ironically dragged him down..

[@technounionrepresentative4274]

Yeah, He was threatening with a weird hole fetish in gen V, He was also decently smart in gen V, Him not realizing that webweaver was not in fact webweaver was completely stupid, Pretty much just so the writers could make fun of old money rich people, which sure, good one but he was completely one note

[@funwithdespair]

​@@technounionrepresentative4274In fairness, I definitely believe the audience is supposed to think that Tek Knight knows he is not really Web Weaver. There are many tells like how he tries to make a sound with the glass and how he stares frequently at Hughie's lower back (where the webspinner would be) and strips him down in that area

[@plasmabeamgames]

What annoyed me most about Tek Knight was his 'flaw' of wanting to screw holes because of a tumour. That's not interesting and doesn't tell us anything about his character at all, it's just a dumb, edgy thing for him to do. And yes, I know he did that in the comics too, the comics were crude and the TV show used to improve on them.

[@Zeppflyer]

A super-smart character can only ever be as smart as the people writing them.

[@justjoshua5759]

And takes an audience to actually pay attention to the character they’re writing to not give disingenuous takes like this that can be easily disproven when you watch the show

[@elitravis2105]

@@justjoshua5759how was his take bad. They had random things happen and then it turned out ok for homelander, then sage just claimed it was her plan. Pretty lazy .

[@pete3011]

I'm also reminded of an expression I heard a while back, a smart actor (or actress, in this case) can play a dmb character, but a dumb actress can't play a smart character.

[@EmilyDunn-h7z]

​@@pete3011there's nothing wrong with the actress. She just wasn't given adequate material to work with. Tony Stark would sound like an idiot with bad writers

[@shai310]

@@elitravis2105 yep, that's is one of the major things I hate about this character. She claims to be so smart yet does nothing to show she's actually smart. She claims she could've cured cancer and solve world hunger but never gave examples how to or at least how she reached to said conclusion. Also, she claims she knew A-Train was the leak but never bothered sharing that info despite the fact it got 3 innocent people killed (the tv host, the girl from Vought and Webweaver) and if A-Train didn't turn on the Seven who knows how many would've died until Sage would decide to expose him. And even then on what basis she decided A-Train was the leak? She never shared that but somehow we're supposed to believe she knew he was the leak. I feel like the writing around the character is the most annoying thing.

[@hflordawn]

I think the Web Weaver death was played more for Firecracker's response, rather than Homelander and shock value for the audience. Firecracker is a character who is wholly devoted to Homelander, and in this moment of her "triumph" (her feeling that she is taking the lead on finding the leak and upstaging Sage), she is witness to his intense violence. So, the shock, that is important is her shock--perhaps planting a seed for next season.

[@q94141]

I hope not. She deserves to have a painful end without any sort of nonsensical “redemption,” just like Deep (who’s still alive for some reason despite contributing nothing to the story besides comic relief. In fact, him dying in episode 7 right after he discarded the only “positive” trait he ever had could have been an effective “Shoo Out the Clowns” moment). She’s almost as disgusting as Homelander in my book and didn’t deserve any sort of apology from Starlight.

[@kevinkenobipius1557]

@@q94141you don’t like comedic relief?

[@ozark5247]

@@q94141I don’t think they’re trying to say she can be redeemed just showing her what she’s getting into. At some point Homelander actually decides to have a bit of self control and not drink any of her breast milk when she requests him too, and even by the end of the season we see Homelander tells her scoot over two chairs away from him just because she’s coughing from taking all those drugs to make her lactate, (sounds insane with no context lmao) which could be foreshadowing for the next season with him eventually treating her as useless. I could be wrong though, maybe they will do that next season but unfortunately we gotta wait 2 years for that lol.

[@phoqueme]

Great point, I agree with this. Firecracker had the common view of Homelander being a "real" hero until this exact scene. Her shock felt genuine

[@animashups9646]

.

[@taurusstudios5497]

I hated how Hughie was treated this season. He was sexually victimized for three episodes straight and they never wasted an opportunity to downplay and make light of his trauma.

[@Onigumo.]

He suffered a lot in this season

[@TheCityofTownsville]

It's only trauma if it's traumatic to the person, otherwise it's just a thing that happened. People are way too quick to throw around the label of "trauma." Just because it could be traumatic, doesn't mean that it was to the person. You can actually turn events a person has dealt with before into a trauma, by just convincing them it was the worstest terriblest thing that happened to them. And all that does is causes harm.

[@PutingPinoy]

@@TheCityofTownsville, hmm, not sure about this take.

[@The1TheyCallFoo313]

When he was S.A by Tech Knight, he broke down and said he wasn't all right, hugging Starlight. So much happened after it wasn't a main focus, but it wasn't downplayed either.

[@technounionrepresentative4274]

​@@TheCityofTownsvillehughie broke down in front of his girlfriend because his dad died and hughie was sexually assaulted within the span of a few days, It was definitely at least a bit traumatic

[@JerichoTheCity]

It feels like they're going in circles. I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy portions of the season, but overall it was fairly mindless content.

[@AwesomeX]

That's how I feel. Like I felt like it was dragged a bit long but I didnt mind it cause it's the boys. Definitely glad that it's ending soon though

[@technounionrepresentative4274]

Considering how The could have killed homelander last season, butcher ruined it, The start the season with no way to kill him, They find a formula to kill supes, they waste it on super sheeps when numan could have exploded them, They are without super virus, They find out that they have super virus because butcher kidnapped someone, They lose super virus because kimiko is injected, They get super virus out of her leg, They plan to kill homelander or numan, They all get captured at the end of s4 and now are without supe virus, Oh also butcher kills numan which allows the corrupt president to be put into office which facilitates the supe army that homelander wanted and gets every captured, Crazy how butcher has ruined the ending of 2 seasons now, I know that it will be used in s5 but an entire plot of s4 being built around this serum just so they could be without it at the beginning of s5 is genuinely hair pullingly annoying

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

Overall the season was just ok. Definitely not bad. But they’re starting to lose steam

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@CoOlKyUbI96 If this season meandered a bit, and it did, I'm hoping the fact we have 8 episodes left means they have no excuse to not pull out all the stops and have meaningful plot happening at all times for Season 5. 8 episodes left means little time to drag their feet, so I sure hope they don't drag their feet.

[@mac4974]

Season 3 ended in a spot where Season 4 should've been the final season. Homelander in the White House should have been episode 1 or 2, not 8. Personal threads had been exhausted or abandoned from the source. All that was left was the X-men parody that was spun off into Gen-V and the Battle of DC and aftermath. They decided to spin their wheels, which would be fine if it didn't feel like stalling. Boy does it feel like stalling.

[@rogueguardian]

You're definitely right when it came to the shock value with Ryan and Grace, It felt gradual and when he finally pushed her it was actually impactful.

[@t4m471]

Ironically it was the least gory death of the season

[@Masterhitman935]

@@t4m471that what make it impactful for the narrative, aside from the broken neck.

[@Bojoschannel]

I don't know, the way Grace acted so stupidly out of nowhere just dumping information on Ryan and him not realizing he was entering a highly secured military base just made everything not really believable and incongruent with the established characters

[@TheShockVox]

Unfortunately I feel the opposite. I found it very contrived and obvious he was going to kill her accidentally or at the very least severely injure her based on the blocking of the scene alone.

[@scotsoulgem]

@@TheShockVox yeah I think grace just went wildy out of character for someone whos last on screen apperence was berating somone for going down that sam kind of path

[@Noodlyk18]

Honestly, the final straw for me was when Annie/Starlight escaped the shapeshifter. Hughie had been in a non-consensual relationship with someone pretending to be his girlfriend, imagine how traumatic it'd be to realize you were with this weird creature that tears off its skin. This is after having already been SAd and traumatized by Tek Knight, and seen his father lose his mind and having to put him down. And what does Annie do? She gets angry at him, the season ends with him having had to apologize to her for not recognizing her. Yeah. She wants an apology from the man who just got SA'd for the second time in a short amount of time. Terrible girlfriend is putting it lightly, the moment I saw she was angry, instead of upset that her boyfriend had that happen to him, I'd be outta there. The writers just cannot take it seriously when it happens to a man.

[@Paul-lt8le]

And it sucks because it seems like after episode 6 they were taking it seriously but then they immediately back pedaled

[@emilmullerv3519]

I mean, she was held in captivity for 10 days while the Shape shifter tortured her mentally and bragged about banging Hughie, and then she killed someone who looked just like her too. Her emotional state wasn't good either, and they fixed things after a brief moment where she could start to think with more clarity again. Also, her problem was that she had been depressed for a long time, and didn't want to have sex as much, nor make huge plans for the future, but Hughie didn't think twice at seeing her suddenly turn into a sex maniac who proposed marriage to him, specially since he knew they were looking for a shape shifter.

[@sterling7]

I wish this version of Hughie had enough guts to retort, "Yeah, that was a really bad situation that you put me- all of us- in, by not being on your guard when we _knew_ there was a shape-shifter at large. Did you miss the part where she not only looked like you, but also had all of your memories?" It was sheer melodramatic conflict for nothing more than melodramatic conflict's sake, and this season was packed to the gills with that already. This season skirted making Starlight utterly un-sympathetic, and I don't think it was intentional at all.

[@abrahammesrajecorrea2349]

I mean, they are pretty open over who do they prefer more between the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp case. That should tell you what they think of SA happening to men. And yes, I did watch the show and yes, Annie did hug Hughie when he broke down over what happened with Tek Knight... but later she got mad at him when she shouldn't. That's what makes me hate her

[@danieleccleston7928]

Yea it bothered me too because it was a shapeshifter and to make matters worse it had her memories too so it would be incredibly easy for the shapeshifter to mimic everything about starlight. I think he deserves some level of understanding there

[@Brax_animation]

My favorite shock kill this season had to be Ryan messing up the fake save & throwing the stunt man into a building

[@jessieliddel9906]

And that one actually had impact on Ryan! It was shocking, emotional, and draws the plot forward

[@sensaiuriah5440]

@@jessieliddel9906 it really wasn't 😂 people predicted that would happen the moment the plan came about

[@Paul-lt8le]

@@sensaiuriah5440 Just because you predicted something would happen doesn't mean it has no value for the narrative lmao

[@chewy_bucca]

Would've been cool if it wasn't revealed in the fucking trailer for season 4..... Also why would a superhero stunt and fight coordinator not be fucking super-abled. Suspension of disbelief broken Jesus.

[@emilmullerv3519]

​@@chewy_buccaI've just learned to never watch trailer for movies or series I'm planning to watch anyways. Nowadays they spoil a lot of stuff there

[@lawbinson]

Killing neuman in that way felt like such a shock value kill. The only thing it was good for is to show the power level of the Butcher parasite. Such a waste of a good character.

[@dontthinktohard3991]

The character they were trying to kill the entire season?

[@emilmullerv3519]

It also showed that Neumann walked the path that lead to her daughter living the same thing she lived

[@donovan4222]

The point of Neuman’s character is that she was trying to have it both ways and work within the system and that lead to her downfall. I hate this generic “shock value” criticism…yeah the boys has been a very edgy and shocking show since season 1, that doesn’t invalidate anything or mean they wasted the character.

[@jackhanson3856]

Waste of a good character? We’ve had her for 3 full seasons straight. We’ve been trying to stop/kill her for 3 seasons straight. She was out, no longer wanting to campaign. I just don’t really see where else they could take her.

[@lpnp9477]

She was my least favorite character. I didn't like her or love to hate her, she was just annoying. I didn't even feel satisfied by her demise, it was more of a sense of relief that I don't have to see her anymore.

[@mehanich4891]

Soldierboy carried season 3 so hard, that he went to sleep for the entire next season

[@FYouTube-we6ee]

It felt empty without him

[@saltoftheegg]

Gotta disagree! The casting of Jensen Ackles as Soldier Boy is, in my opinion, the beginning of the end for this show. He's supposed to be one of the most horrifying characters in the show. He's a 🍇ist and a racist and he was supposed to be worse than Homelander and by casting that limp slice of wet bread he just ended up looking like a lovable old man.

[@UNKNOWN-qr7uo]

@@saltoftheegg When was Solider Boy racist?

[@YungBeezer]

He also felt like a real hero.

[@saltoftheegg]

​@@UNKNOWN-qr7uobasically everything he said to or about Black Noir was a dig at his race

[@agt_pendergast8899]

I'm kind of at the point where I don't care much for the titular "Boys" and am just on board to see how crazy Homelander gets and how it all ends.

[@tapset]

Homelander is def carrying the show like soldier boy did s3

[@kevinkenobipius1557]

Pretty sure that’s how everyone feels lol

[@haversidne3658]

He is just a cry baby now, he is never gonna lose it lol, you have too much hopes for this edgy shit bruh

[@leontoeides]

​@@haversidne3658he'll definitely lose it next season that's the purpose of his whole character. Also, y'all want to take this show too seriously and learn something from it. It was never meant to be like that. Just enjoy the fake superpowered violence. Though I must say, sometimes that's what it lacks.

[@haversidne3658]

@@leontoeides the problem is people THINK is that serious, every fucking time they talk about how great deconstruction of modern society and how deep it is but its not, its definitely a show beavis and butthead would love Also, he will not lose it next season i guarantee you that

[@batboy12394]

I appreciate your take on the Sister Sage "this was the plan all along" angle. I have only seen a bunch of praise for her being the 'real' big bad all the time. So many saying that it so awesome. But, I feel like it is a trope to have a really smart person have a plan that seems to go wrong, but at the end it was actually all according to plan. Without a convincing thread of hints, it's a cheap way to artificially puff up a character. I really like the idea of Sage, and I think the actress was great. I think a stronger way to make a superhuman smart person more intimidating/effective is to show how adept they are at pivoting and adapting to the unpredictable. That would have been harder to write, but way more satisfying than just saying it was all according to plan.

[@EmilyDunn-h7z]

You're so right about Sage. The writers just declared her a genius without any work behind it. And yeah, it is hard to write smart characters. Don't do it without a plan.

[@justjoshua5759]

except he’s not right about sage. I’m surprised he really had this take after watching the show They did plenty of work you literally didn’t pay attention. And it’s wild how common y’all are

[@EmilyDunn-h7z]

@@justjoshua5759 they didn't do any work. She just walked around and did nothing. Either show the plan at the start, or at the end, but now we have to wait probably two years to see if they're every gonna do that. Each step of her plan appeared to fail, but he ultimately ended up in power. That's horrible writing. In a good scene, the last scene would have been a breakdown of how she maneuvered pieces, since her on screen plans flopped.

[@thatonefpsgamer1339]

Amazon show writers are incompetent

[@benjyfry2162]

​@justjoshua5759 Sage's "plan," particularly in the last quarter of the show, was entirely predicated upon a series of contrivances and convenience. If you can lay out a clear path of choices and events that lead from one to the other in a logical, concise manner, then I'll admit I'm wrong. However, I don't believe you can, and I don't believe the writers can either. They hand-wave everything away upon the basis of "she's the smartest person in the world." Her plan needed to not only make sense to her, but also to the audience. It simply doesn't. She's not clairvoyant or omniscient, she's highly intelligent. Her reveal in the final episode is the epitome of "moustache-twirling villian who just wants to watch the world burn was behind everything all along." It's the same issue with Butcher's season-long '"arc" of "oi, I'm dying. Oi, I'm alright now. Oi, I'm dying again. Oi, nevermind. OI, I'm really dying this time. OI, now I have tentacles and I'm diabolical." and Starlight's power issues all season long, only to deus ex fly her way out of danger at the last second. It's all a bunch of shocking revelations that had no foundation laid or internal logic behind them.

[@EmilyDunn-h7z]

@@benjyfry2162 yeah, Sage's power could have been "things tend to go her way" and the show would have been exactly the same Better actually, because they could have abandoned her self-nerf scenes which had no place in 8 episodes. Tek Knight and Sage were plot threads for a 16 episode season. Webweaver didn't belong at all, not this Family Guy Cutaway Gag version.

[@claytonrios1]

Trust me, Webweaver and almost everything with Tek Knight felt like shock value for the sake of it. Plus it just made me feel bad for Hughie throughout the whole fourth season.

[@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375]

Bro Hughie got absolutely violated

[@claytonrios1]

​@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 Literally. At least Starlight got to beat up The Deep. That was satisfying.

[@uhuhuh1966]

I’d rather feel bad for Hughie than dislike him like I did the other 3 seasons 😂

[@claytonrios1]

​@@uhuhuh1966Why did you dislike him?

[@uhuhuh1966]

@@claytonrios1 he was a whiny useless wheenie, didn’t add anything meaningful to the group he was just the audience avatar for season 1 and then overstayed his welcome once we knew the world by the 2nd season. Deeply uninteresting male protagonist that we’ve seen done millions of times, at least had something with his dad this season

[@rebel_diamonds]

Starlight being pissed at Hughie for sleeping with the shapeshifter was horrible. He was basically raped. If the situation was reversed, you can bet we wouldn't get a line about testing for STDs from Hughie.

[@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102]

If the roles were reversed, and it was Annie getting raped by deception and finding out about it after and then Hughie comes in yelling at her about it....yeah, I imagine that the writing would've properly framed Hughie as the one in the wrong in this conversation.

[@mrmusickhimself]

@@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102 If Starlight had gone through the Tek Knight/Ashley scenario? The show would have been cancelled. I don't understand....it's not right for any gender to go through that, why is "It's Funny When it Happens to a Guy" still a thing?

[@ericgarcia4745]

She was straight out victim shaming

[@OneWingedRose]

@@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102 That's a stretch. The 'doppleganger makes me cheat' thing is a trope that's been fairly common in TV over the years, and every instance I've seen of it has resulted in the partner who was copied being upset at the partner who cheated for not knowing it wasn't them. I've never seen it reversed so the one who didn't cheat is somehow blamed. Also, I actually thought the reaction to that trope was done pretty well in this show, she was understandably upset at first but came to terms with it shortly after without dragging it out for drama, and the std test line was cute lol.

[@TheCoolestGeekEver]

Every scene with Colin and the Deep's Octopus should have been replaced with scenes where we learn more about Sage but, more importantly, the Shifter. Season 4, in my opinion, was really missing the presence a "Big Bad" character. Like season 2's Stormfront and season 3's Solider Boy. Think of how much more suspenseful this season would have been if we were introduced to the Shifter early in the season. We could've seen her take down targets from her perspective. Seen more of her character and little personal ticks. She could've been played by a different actress in each episode so the audience would have to look out for those ticks to sus out who the Shifter might be. She proudly proclaimed to be a sociopath! They could've really built her up to be Season 4's "Big Bad". But Instead we don't even know her name.

[@owenflibbert8019]

The shifter could never really be the big bad since she wasn’t very powerful, but I see what you mean. Sage/Neuman were intended to be the big bads but neither really worked

[@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_Bugle]

I think S4 big bad is suppose to be Sage, Homelander and Victoria, however Sage felt unimpactful aside maybe one or two scenes, Homelander is, well just Homelander and Victoria never felt like a villain, especially if you watched Gen V, where she had small but prominent role. Unlike Homelander, Victoria never killed out of pleasure, always out of necessity. Killing her off for shock value was pretty dumb, especially because actress seems really cool, she had some of the best line deliveries in the show, aside Anthony and Karl Urban. Deep & A-Train actors are also pretty good, they are often overlooked as actors sadly.

[@DG-gx8pn]

@@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_BugleI feel like Sage was a great actor as well. Her conversation with Victoria at the manor really hit home and as a black person, I could really sympathize with her story. She’s probably my favorite character of the season on most days tbh

[@meraj5393]

@@DG-gx8pn She's my favorite 'new' character for sure. But as character in general she felt kinda of waste.

[@neverbeganforme]

@@DG-gx8pnthey had a better scene where they first met at the ice skating rink and Sage was telling Victoria how everything was going to be moving forward while Homelander was standing behind her in admiration.

[@alexanderwinn9407]

The Boys acted like "webs coming from his butt" is a funny and shockingly new idea, when they literally made that same joke in Spider-Man No Way Home. "Does it just come from your wrists, or does it come from... anywhere else?"

[@TheKhal22]

No it’s literally never been a new thing and they never acted like it was??? The boys is a satire/parody this criticism makes no sense. Plus you’ve never SEEN it only heard marvel make the joke 20 times

[@PoliMaster64]

It doesn’t come out of his butt

[@Dirt578]

@@TheKhal22dude satire doesn’t mean be stupid and gross.. lol we have a point of reference (season 1 for example) of intelligent satire. You just a fanboy

[@phabiorules]

⁠@@TheKhal22You saw it in venture bros though.

[@upsetstudios1819]

it just felt like "American Pie" level toilet humor

[@spacekook3315]

Its crazy how this season felt so much like the comic which I think is actually a bad thing. Not to mention the way they've treated Hughie this season, at least Frenchie and Kimiko are finally back after that pointless drama.

[@technounionrepresentative4274]

Hughie might have actually been treated better in the comics than in s4

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

I kinda agree and disagree at the same time. It's like they're now going the comics route but trying to make it a bit more nuanced. The way the season ended was a more nuanced version of "Homelander takes over the goverment and Butcher decides he will kill every super" and it had to change certain stuff (Butcher's character mostly) to fit into that. And the worst about it is that some scenes start to feel more similar to the shock value out of left field that doesn't contribute to the plot from the comics, rather than what the show itself used to do which was shock value done right and being part of the plot. I'm sure they'll stick the landing if they don't go full Ennis and they actually do what they've been doing for the last seasons, change stuff while being true to the characters for a better story overall.

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

​@@technounionrepresentative4274 that's a big no, even after season 4, Hughie went through way worse in the comics.

[@noobmasterruben5167]

Yeah what the hell was the point of Frenchie being gay again? That moment felt like a scene from Supergirl

[@isaacshine2224]

​@@noobmasterruben5167 as much as I didn't like how they handled frenchie's romance with that guy which I honestly forgot the name (a testament to how little the character itself was important to the plot), it was a rather big thing to his character development this season. People seem to be taking too much of a emphasis on the bisexual character banging a dude, tho

[@Frettz]

The web weaver scene wasn’t about web weaver, it was to plant the seeds of firecracker having second thoughts about home lander

[@angelromanflores2709]

Thank you that it was bothering me I thought it was well done

[@kate_g-s2s]

YESSSSSS. this _whole_ scene exists only for her final gasp and glance telling us she begins to _realize_

[@peterhowton592]

Literally you copy pasted this comment bruh

[@iforgot87872]

He’s also killing a supe when he usually kills humans

[@rafaelyamano2661]

@@iforgot87872 he killed some supes before. That Asian blind guy and the guy who was trying to help Starlight

[@Toxodos]

yeah, this season you really felt the formula of "problem -> get leverage on a superhero, including something gross/sexual -> solution -> also butcher shows up and looks mean"

[@dxk65]

When Neuman died out of nowhere right as soon as her character was starting to develop more I sighed. It's really hard to get invested in any aspect of The Boys when it's so gung ho on shock value instead of good storytelling.

[@MoarCheeseBirb]

Brown Widow from venture bros, they did a butt web spiderman 14 years ago.

[@GreggNowhere]

Brown Recluse felt like much more of a fully realised character, too. Webweaver's entire character is "cowardly, drug-addled scumbag," and 99% of the characters on the Boys have no discernable personality traits other than "cowardly, drug-addled scumbag".

[@jackhanson3856]

So something isn’t worth doing if someone else did it a decade ago? Which isn’t to say that they couldn’t have executed it better. They absolutely should have. Just that the concept itself isn’t awful by itself.

[@MoarCheeseBirb]

@jackhanson3856 nah man, the entire idea in the boys stopped at butthole spideman powers. It's already been done and done better, so they need to put some meat on that barebones idea if I'm supposed to be interested and engaged.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@MoarCheeseBirb Not to mention, Brown Widow is an actual CHARACTER instead of just being a one-off gag.

[@HopeBFull]

I think Tek Knight is fun in Gen V, but I wasn't very interested in him in this season.

[@sam-psonsmith9951]

He did essentially nothing in this entire season. In Gen V they mocked him toward end with his kink. So i don't know, feels like he was treated as a joke from the get go.

[@TalosBjorn]

@HopeBFull that's cuz they turned his character into yet another "current thing liberal political talking point" punchline by randomly just having him be the heir to a massive slave fortune who also owns a bunch of private prisons

[@CrocodileWhispers]

@@sam-psonsmith9951 "Kink" ? He had a brain tumor that was forcing his extreme predilictions (though in the show I can assume they were extreme before, but now more uncontrolled). It's also an issue the comic book version of Tek Knight had. Comic version had a tumor that made him want to hump everyone and he went and sought help after he almost SA'd his teenage sidekick

[@donovan4222]

@@sam-psonsmith9951Well yeah you can’t really take him seriously after the audience was already exposed to him being a joke in Gen V. He’s intimidating to college kids trying to please Vought, but what’s he going to do to the boys?

[@GATESOFKELL]

I think the overarching themes of facing ones mortality and having the opposite sides of that spectrum represented with Butcher and Homelander, along with stuff involving Hughie's dad and even the Frenchie/Kimiko stuff, is a strong hook. But because it's all building for the final season, there's just no pay-off and makes the show feel like it's stuck in limbo. A show that needed to end a season ago, while also being a show that can't end until next season. The entire season as a piece of media is actually a fun metaphor for the two major players sort of being stuck in their mid-life crisis, but it comes at the cost of the entire cast of characters having nothing to do, having very little impactful character moments, and leaving the audience just bummed that we have to wait a year or two just to *hope* we get good closure.

[@GATESOFKELL]

I think the character stories all sort of revolving around mortality and the sort of "what kind of life have I led" question is good, but because there's no pay-off and nothing interesting really happens, it makes all the characters feel completely stuck until next season when stuff is allowed to happen. Still hoping for the best in the final season but man was this season just really a tough watch at times.

[@minorears5205]

I think you're kind of right in that the season is waiting to pay off into the next season, but that's perfectly fine in my opinion. Sort of how GoT S1 was good until the final few episodes and then became great. I also agree with the side stories critique, a lot of it such as Kimiko and Frenchie felt empty, but overall the season was "Good" to me. It was more a season for the villains and anti-heros then the heros. Homelander, Butcher, Neuman, Ryan and A-Train had good seasons. The rest were "meh" I get that.

[@matriaxpunk]

And yet is still the best representation of current American society, that alone makes the season worth it even if the story goes nowhere.

[@minorears5205]

@@matriaxpunk It's almost fitting that they finished recording and included political violence only for it to happen in real life and they needed to put a disclaimer. I know people complain the "wokeness" was on the nose this season, but that's because it's on the nose in the real world.

[@sam-psonsmith9951]

going by the track record of modern TV i would say season 5 is going to be following the formula of GoT in the sense that everyone will love the last season.

[@ivanbluecool]

Hughie felt like he was stuck in a loop same with Frenchie. Starlight was way too harsh to Hughie since both got tricked I do enjoy seeing honelander realizing how age is quickly catching up to him since that's definitely his fear and with his past in soldier boy and future in his son he's working overtime to take over.

[@willemdaho3]

i almost forget starlight was a vitcim in season 1 but jump ahead now and she completely dismisses Hughie's affair like its nothing... character regression at its finest

[@realPlinkett]

Starlight Island as definitely not too harsh to Hughie. If anything, his betrayal should have been more consequential.

[@vitruviandrums]

Yeah it was nuts how Hughie got catfished and Starlight went full “you fucked an almost perfect and complete copy of me? How do you think that makes ME feel? I know you just lost your dad but wtf? Like come on man. Lazy, lazy writing.

[@CharZy-y8v]

@@vitruviandrumsTo play devils advocate, I do understand the idea of where she’s coming from. He did sleep with someone else, even if he thought it was her. I think I’d be pretty upset if I was also in her shoes. And it also showed her insecurities come to the surface. I do think in that scene she should’ve however recognized that he is now a victim.

[@ivanbluecool]

@@realPlinkett yeah imagine getting tricked and it's your fault. That's basically what you are saying. No starlight is not in the right here for blaming Huey. She even throws him wanting that Perfect version of her when Hughie calls her out on it by saying he knows she's not perfect with all her little quirks. Sorry but you're just victim blaming

[@violentmnky]

The Sage plan not clicking like you said was a major issue for me this season. That was so lazy from a writing perspective.

[@justjoshua5759]

I really don’t get how it doesn’t click

[@violentmnky]

@@justjoshua5759 it just comes out of nowhere at the very end. we aren't given enough puzzle pieces to come to that conclusion on our own before Sage just walks up and goes "Oh yes, all of these crazy things that happened were all part of my plan, teehee."

[@neverbeganforme]

@@violentmnkyI still don’t get want Sage’s plan was supposed to be. I was confused

[@robertmusil1107]

They could still save it by actually showing she has no plan because the assumption that the "most intelligent human" on earth can control everything is stupid in the first place because human behaviour is unpredictable. But I doubt they are intelligent enough to pull that off.

[@_AZBT_ASHUTOSHKUSHWAHA]

Her meticulous planning and formulating strategies still isn't going to be used in final(I guess) because the seven has got political and government immunity , so basically they will do whatever the fuck they want, since there are only 4 left in the 7 . Deep is a joke so he won't be taken seriously as he would be too busy dickriding the boss homelander same goes with firecracker, black noir has a mouth so he is capable on doing something unexpected. They will listen to sage and will go "mind your damn business " And do devious acts of unimaginable scale and screw one another meeting their timely demise

[@richardbigham4138]

The boys doesn't have shock value, it has valueless shock

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

I love how in season 3 kripke shoved in little Nina making her torture Frenchie and Kimiko, which was unrelated to the main story, and she got away so it was kinda all for nothing

[@itch433]

It wasn't for nothing, it was a plot point for Kimiko to realize how her whole "being a monster" thing wasn't coming from her powers. So she could shoot V later and change her perspective of herself. But yeah, most bits from Frenchie and Kimiko's past often feel kinda shoehorned in.

[@saltoftheegg]

Confession: I have skipped every single Frenchie and Kimiko scene since season 2 because I could tell the show had no idea what to do with them and I'm fairly certain I have missed nothing important

[@The_Dinosaur_Heretic]

@@saltoftheegg You’ve missed important characterisation for them, realising that they are not only capable of forgiveness, but of forgiving themselves. That’s the whole thesis of S4, which was spelled out in the finale

[@tph2010]

​@saltoftheegg I got so sick of the 'Frenchie feeling sorry for himself' sub-plot in Season 4

[@Kink_Shaman]

I’m putting in all my chips that Nina will be back in the next season in a BIG way. The Ruskies have decades of experience running experiments on Soldier boy, not to mention they kept Soldier Boy incapacitated for decades with no issue. (A lot like how Butcher and Grace planned to incapacitate Homeboy)

[@RepostGuy101]

Back in season one, when homelander was present it was genuinely scary like when they were in that abandoned soup kitchen with translucent, he was genuinely horrifying but now it's kinda gotten a bit stale and we've seen so much "shock" that it doesn't really impact us anymore, when it was more rare it was more shocking but now it's just every half an hour in one episode

[@Planag7]

Honestly i feel it's like Hazbin: you can have cursing. Gore and pervy shit. But make it count! Less is more at times Also I think universally? Frenchie is not well liked this season. I think if season 5 wasn't the last? It should end there anyway. Also. The main person behind this trivializing the sexual assaults(!) of Hughie is not cool

[@miticaBEP07]

Hazbin Hotel has a better portrayal of BDSM at least

[@LicoriceLain]

Hazbin Hotel is great, what are you talking about?

[@galanga21890]

there's a lot of things Hazbin can be criticized for, but it's not even close to the levels of unnecessary edge and shock humor The Boys s4 had

[@Nermeen.]

This show should have been ended in S3 with Soldier Boy finishing Homelander.

[@borisstoyanov3488]

I agree. Both shows aren't great (the Boys used to be great, unlike Hazbin) and focus more on shock value instead of developing the characters and the story.

[@milton7763]

As someone who has never read the comic book it actually took me a while to even realize Tek Knight was supposed to be a Batman parody

[@nont18411]

Now let’s see how many times will Hughie get SA’d next season. Once is bad enough. The Boys S4 did it to him 3 episodes in a row.

[@technounionrepresentative4274]

Also throw in hughie's dad dying on top of the assault, I know hughie is the proverbial punching bag in the show but he seriously needs a break

[@brettbrooks5511]

​@@technounionrepresentative4274he's a straight white male. Either they write them as monsters (Homelander, Deep, Butcher) or punching bags (Hughie)

[@liamphibia]

Good Lord, who wrote this season?

[@GustyPlus]

@@brettbrooks5511 Womp womp, straight white men have taken up the majority of mainstream movie/television roles since the inception of the medium(s). If you can't handle a show taking pot shots at your race, gender or orientation, imagine how it's felt for minnorities all this time, and how they have often been negatively portrayed in these mediums.

[@friendlybane]

@@brettbrooks5511 or the heroes as well. Almost as if the show has a lot of straight white men. Time to put down the Mein Kampf book.

[@PramkLuna]

One small thing I hated was Annie being mad at Hughie for not recognizing the shapeshifter. Its one of those cliches we expect the show to make fun of rather than lean into. Plus Annie knows that the shifter has her memories and face, Hughie being fooled by them, although awful still makes sense.

[@burgerandy2729]

Felt like her whole arc dealt with her insecurities contradicting against the pure imagine her supe persona portrays. Even when she scold’s him, it reveals that the reason she’s mad was because the shifter was a “happier” her for Hughie. And her doubts immediately paint a negative picture of the whole ordeal. It was after Hughie’s speech about forgiveness and humanity that resolved Annie’s own anxieties (with the bad person she believes she was; not the unintentional cheating) (as well for MM, Frenchie, and Kimiko; tying up their own arcs as well). Which is why she immediately forgives him after. So in a sense, Annie was being irrational and we weren’t meant to agree with her actions. Just as we weren’t meant to agree with how she handled things like Firecracker, and her following.

[@mayolicious69]

Easy to look at it through a logical lense. It's an emotional reaction, most people know that what is said at an emotional low point is not logical. It's how what happened made her feel, which is a realistic human response to the situation. Of course it's not fair or right to react that way, but it's a still a valid, believable response in my opinion

[@emilmullerv3519]

​@@burgerandy2729It's like people expect a character with depression who just spent 10 days in captivity being psychologically tortured and who just killed a clone of themselves to be emotionally rational and understanding

[@VendettaPSC]

You're upset Annie wasn't empathetic enough for Hughie right off the rip, but in doing so, you're also not being empathetic to Annie's character she also just came back from going through some shit, and I believe the show framed it as her being upset due to her own insecurities, which is illustrated by Hughie immediately shutting down her insecurities and showing her that she's wrong, which she swiftly accepts, and a scene or two later just flat out forgives him, and comes to a place of understanding. Have yall bever dated before? Lol

[@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102]

@@VendettaPSC As a survivor of a sexual assault herself, Annie should know that Hughie is a victim. She should know better. Her blaming him for not noticing fast enough is the equivalent of telling a female rape victim that they didn't fight back hard enough.

[@warpdrivefueledbyinsomnia8165]

I'm wondering if the smaller seasons is affecting storytelling. I definitely remember fluff episodes in the sprawling 20+ episode seasons of yesteryear in stuff like X-Files, but you need lighter episodes to allow storytelling to occur. When you reduce a season down to 8 episodes, it feels like you have to turn the episodes into spotfests to tell the story you want to tell.

[@neverbeganforme]

I always said this show needed more episodes instead of 8.

[@gpauldejesus]

Season one is in my opinion one of the best seasons of tv ever made, its paced incredibly well, its well written and it felt fresh while balancing everything perfectly. Since then, i don’t think they’ve had a BAD season but its gotten weak each season. The writing doesn’t feel as clever anymore, a lot of what you see is stuff you’ve read on twitter a bunch of times, there’s a lot of plot armor and conveniences and overall it just feels more like your typical average show now, its very repetitive. And of course, there’s the reliance on shock value which everyone has already talked about.

[@vincentfalcone9218]

Season 1 was bloody brilliant. It felt like it was operating on nearly Breaking Bad/Game of Thrones levels of greatness. It's fallen off so hard since.

[@noobmasterruben5167]

Season 3 and season 1 had great moments of character development and tension. Especially with Soldier boy vs Homelander. Like Homelanders delivery of "No im the upgrade" is meme material. What happened in s4? Probably the impact of the writers strike

[@mayolicious69]

Yeah the shapeshifter not splatting MM and Hughie but absolutely destroying everyone else is jarring, as was Butcher surviving the fight with New Noir

[@jerrodshack7610]

Season 1 was an incredible introduction to the world and there were always stakes and intrigue

[@ShadowSonic2]

Season 1 worked because it was the start and all the shocking stuff still felt new. After years of it, it just feels like it's style over substance and the build ups from S1 haven't paid off

[@JPlaysDrums96]

sounds like peoole actually like and enjoy stories instead of pointless spectacle and moments void of build up and intricacies

[@JPlaysDrums96]

who woulda thought??

[@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access]

Hollywood: shut up. Shut your dirty mouth, and slurp your slop.

[@haversidne3658]

What story is even telling this season? Dont vote for Trump?

[@Padlock_Steve]

@@haversidne3658 yeah thats actually what it is kripke and his masterful writing team

[@robertmusil1107]

People are watching Deadpool which has absolutely no story just for the "fun".

[@justinriley]

I still mostly liked season 4 of The Boys. But the show is definitely starting to overstay its welcome and falling in to many of the tropes it made fun of. Glad it's ending with Season 5.

[@PutingPinoy]

I was actually thinking this same thing. Like, it almost stopped feelin like it had impact. Like, with the figure skating getting lasted in half. And yes, they did a bad job of showing/proving Sage is the smartest person. They tell us multiple times though.

[@Klokinator]

>100 things go badly for The Seven Sage: It's all part of my brilliant plan! These writers are amateur. They think we're actually braindead.

[@ammonite0257]

@@Klokinatorit was really weird for homelander not to kill her after being exposed. It was really evident how much plot armor she had

[@Bojoschannel]

Sage got that Tyrion treatment in seasons 6 thru 8 of Game of Thrones, a "smart" character written by dumb writers

[@manuelrojas7843]

I really would’ve appreciated a monologue from sage or something explaining her plan, the moment wasn’t satisfying at all

[@thecod2345]

@@manuelrojas7843I think what would have worked would be her plans initially being wonky due to lack of info but as time goes on, they trap the Boys more and more as she builds a mental profile of what they will and won’t do under certain circumstances.

[@lawrencelord9777]

2:37 viral video from 2012 is so accurate. felt like a 2012 college humor video

[@sterling7]

I had to finish the season before I felt I could comment, and... it's painful. It's not just that there's a lack of shock, it's that there's a lack of impact. Kimiko tells Frenchie "you and I aren't happening", then they're a couple at the end. Butcher spends most of the series wracked with cancer, then he "gives into the darkside" and suddenly, he's not. Starlight flies off the handle over and over again, and somehow, we're supposed to still find her a sympathetic character. Hughie gets, like, three minutes to admit that he's just been massively traumatized, and then we're back to Starlight's issues. Mother's Milk becomes a borderline abusive leader, apparently because they felt the role was empty with Butcher's decline. I find myself talking back to the screen, and it's not a good sign.

[@dymoure]

This show has turned into me being more shocked about when it’s down to Earth. And the funniest kinda stuff is like… Butcher throwing away a water bottle instead of recycling it and then MM putting gloves on to remove it from the trash and recycle it.

[@Scribbly_Chi_10]

The most absurd point about this season is plot armor of the boys, they introduce new people just to get them killed but none of the boys gets killed, remember that V'd up sheeps episode, in that episode there were two new CIA people which were there just to be killed, that was so bad writing, in last episode too, the shapeshifter easily killed CIA people with a push, but naah she couldn't kill Hughie & MM, ofcourse i don't want them to be killed, but atleast write it in a creative way that it doesn't feel like plot armor.

[@thekrakensdaughter]

worst part was the team willing to throw hughie with no compound v or any kind of weapon to visit a dangerous guy who is a human lie detector all by himself while they sit on a van, the characters are pretty much aware of their own plot armor by now

[@Scribbly_Chi_10]

@@thekrakensdaughter yeah, the writing is so inconsistent, hughie is shocked to see homelander at tek knight, even though a train told them so.

[@fathersun5765]

It's always so weird seeing Erin Moriarty's face from season 1 to season 4. Jesus christ

[@djbeema]

Even between this season and last season was enough to make me go "what the fuck" the first time I saw her

[@justjoannak]

Yeah, I was so upset when I heard about her getting cosmetic surgery done

[@leafcatcher1715]

So for web weaver they just lifted from 10 year old Venture Brothers character Brown Recluse.

[@MoarCheeseBirb]

14 year old 👴

[@DrTechnoBabel]

Yeah, and Brown Recluse worked way better because even in his first episode he had more elements to the Spider-Man parody than just 'Haha he shoots his webs out of his ass'. Though admittedly Brown Recluse had a larger presence than Web Weaver too so there was more time to flesh him out as well.

[@funwithdespair]

Brown Widow, but yes. Even their costumes are similar.

[@GreayWorks]

I remeber seeing a tweet comparing this show to Venture Bros, they said "What makes Venture Bro still so funny as a superhero parody is that the references aren't just shocking gag happens to superhero, it's that so much of their references and jokes are the creators other interests"

[@shanebattistv2165]

It’s ironic because I feel the gore and shock deaths in S1 is what made the show exciting because we’d never seen anything like this before and the world felt unpredictable. Now the gore has the opposite effect because every episode you know it’s coming. Usually a minor supe character or Vaught staff that has little or no emotional impact on the main characters. A bigger problem is The Boys themselves have had such thick plot armor for so long, the danger feels low. I wasn’t worried for a sec when Deep/Noir showed up at headquarters when that same scenario in S1 or S1 would have been intense.

[@SyawishRehman]

Previous seasons were more subtle with the satire but this season was too blunt and it felt like lazy writing. If you criticize it online, people say, "Oh, you're an incel and they're making fun of you, that's why you're butthurt", but it's just too on the nose and it feels lazy.

[@burgerandy2729]

I recently rewatched the show, and past season 1 the messages start getting heavy handed. It’s not that subtle either, like S2 there’s a bunch of immigrant rhetoric, and Storm Front; representing a certain ideology, rubbing shoulders with Homelander (stand in for America). S3 started to establish Starlighter’s vs Vought, and used Soldier Boy as a stand in for Covid while Homelander kept telling media there’s nothing to worry about (very obvious parody). Aside from seeing two groups clash, I don’t see how it is any more obvious than the previous 2 seasons.

[@abrahammesrajecorrea2349]

@@burgerandy2729 I think it's that this season oddly enough didn't make much fun of the left and hyper focused on the right. Which isn't a problem as long as you keep a balance. The only jokes on the left I can think of are Vaught wanting to profit from having black heroes and maybe that little commercial about the Me Too movement (and I don't even think that belongs to any political side). Earlier seasons made fun of the way the left thought and hoe it worked, it wasn't just a "this is how a democrat thinks a liberal is in real life". This season only hyperfocused on making fun of the right and it feels tasteless as oppossed to before. And I say this as a politically neutral non American. That's what made me love the show in the first place: it could make fun of both sides, not favoring one side

[@sabersin5368-c2c]

People who use the argument “It was always making fun of you!” are so genuinely brain dead it’s actually hilarious. It’s actually astonishing how little to no self awareness these people have, they don’t even like the show because it’s good, they only like the show because it has the same political derangement as them.

[@sabersin5368-c2c]

@@abrahammesrajecorrea2349A friendly reminder that the director of the show is a leftist who has the same political literacy as a Twitter user.

[@lpnp9477]

Season 1 was perfectly subtle, season 2 was still subtle enough to be fun, but season 3 it was out the window and in season 4 they're beating you over the head with it. A good show should make me think a little, but now the boys is just bricking it directly into my brain hole. Still, I find the fight scenes and really any scene with Karl Urban to be compelling enough to keep watching.

[@mathiaswalker350]

While I agree with most of what you're saying I would argue that Webweavers Death did 3 things mainly: It presented the "real" Homelander to Firecracker. Because she hadn't seen that side of him until then. It showcased how helplessly dumb Firecracker and Homelander are without the aid of Sage. and it got rid of Webweaver, because otherwise in the final season there could be questions on his whereabouts, so they took him out of the series. Not ideally executed (no pun intended), don't get me wrong... but it did not NOT serve a purpose.

[@The4leggedpirates]

Didn't homelander explode some dudes head on live tv ? I get seeing it online and in person are two different things but like ...he still exploded some dude for throwing a bottle

[@pksprite6401]

@@The4leggedpiratesthe media twisted that as self defense, which I suppose it technically was. Firecracker definitely seems like the type who would believe that, anyways.

[@ammonite0257]

Those aren’t really strong enough reasons to have him in there

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

​@@ammonite0257 he was basically a throw away character with little scenes that served three purposes. 1) costume for Hughie to get info from Tek Knight (we all know that ended up being dragged out for the gross and shock value factor) 2) what the commenter said about the death scene. 3) last but not least: Haha not legally Spider-man #2 by Amazon sharts webs and is a drug addict.

[@q94141]

I have no idea why they were trying to present Firecracker as having “standards” all of a sudden. She violated a child; a character like that shouldn’t have any kind of “standards.” She’s almost as vile and disgusting as Homelander in my book, and she should be nothing more than a Hate Sink character.

[@MrOtistetrax]

I think gave up after S2 because I just couldn’t see the point of it. “Shock value for the sake of it” pretty much sums up the whole concept of the show, to me.

[@upsetstudios1819]

The scene with Web Weaver just felt like "American Pie" level toilet humor

[@dorbis4]

american pie is perfect toilet humor this was just eh

[@marko-gj1uj]

Don't you dare compare American Pie to this

[@angmarliche9187]

I felt Kimiko and Homelander were conveniently nerfed when the plot demanded it.

[@juannaym8488]

Starlight too She was never powerful but her struggling against Deep is legit a bad joke

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@juannaym8488 For real, though. Isn't the Deep supposed to be one of the weaker members of the Seven?

[@bencarlson4300]

This season solidified for me that the cast is what carries this show. Antony Starr and Karl Urban, obviously, are incredible, but also Jack Quaid and Erin Moriarty who had mostly poorly written material to work with (aside from the stuff with Hughie’s parents which was great all around). The writing often… just isn’t that good, specifically the Frenchie/Kimiko subplots where I literally fast forwarded through them and missed nothing. I liked Firecracker a lot… but again, I think that’s almost exclusively because of the actress giving her all rather than writing skill.

[@Handyrandy2233]

The comics are comically bad at shock humor,during the herogasm arc,black noir assaults Huggies……..just cuz.he never brings it up again,we never find out why he did it,he litterly did it just because

[@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375]

The comics are written by a well known Edgelord and the artstyle is garbage

[@kaminsod4077]

​@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 TBF Garth Ennis has written some truly great comics, but The Boys is amongst his weakest works. It's schlocky, obnoxiously ham fisted, and like you mentioned, the art is not pleasant to look at for any period of time.

[@Antigen__]

​@@kaminsod4077Only a visionary such as Ennis could say "superhero comics are garbage" and proceed to make his own garbage superhero comic about how superheroes are garbage

[@EmilyDunn-h7z]

Huggies lol

[@paulakroy2635]

Black Noir assaulting Hughie is a major plot point. It’s what causes him to realize that the boys aren’t good people.

[@Kyderra]

Webweaver shooting webs everywhere during his interrogation removed and tension and made it look like a scene from Scary movie.

[@lpr5269]

Yeah what was the point of that? I was actually happy when Homelander finally killed him so I didn't have to endure watching him shoot webs out of his butt anymore.

[@Shoxic666]

This whole show feels like it relies too much on "look a head splatter!" every episode.

[@K1LLW1N]

I still prefer the original premise of The Boys having powers to actually put the Supes in their place, like in the comics. Over this constant punchline being "oh, you guys are bad at this huh" xD

[@ShadowSonic2]

The storyline is supposed to be Normals vs Supers, not "Garth Ennis' Punisher Supers vs other Supers"

[@K1LLW1N]

@@ShadowSonic2 yeah but the best moments of the show are when the boys go toe to toe with the supes. Butcher especially

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@K1LLW1N boring

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

​@@ShadowSonic2When I first watched The Boys, I originally assumed the premise for this show would be that this rag-tag motley crew of humans would take down Supes in new and interesting ways each week, with broader anti-capitalist themes. One of my favorite moments from the show was how they killed Translucent in Season 1. It's almost as if his powers (having indestructible carbon skin that makes him turn invisible and bulletproof at the same time) represented a puzzle that the Boys had to solve using their skills and ingenuity. Butcher lures him out, Hughie immobilizes him through electrocution, Frenchie discovers his weakness, and MM... I'm sure he does something too. Of course, The Boys defeated Translucent by having Hughie detonate the explosive lodged in his rectum. So far, the Boys have only killed 9 Supes themselves in the entire show. - Translucent - Mesmer - Two asylum inmates - Splinter - Hughie's Dad - The Shifter - Gunpowder - Ezekiel - Victoria Neuman In fact, the only time when The Boys actually exploited the Supe's weakness to their advantage was Translucent, and the last 3 were killed with Butcher's powers, too. The rest of the Supes we've seen die were killed by other Supes as a matter of coincidental consequence (Black Noir, Stormfront, Blue Hawk, etc). Even the last four remaining members of Payback (Crimson Countess, TNT Twins, and Mindstorm) were killed by Soldier Boy himself. While I don't particularly enjoy the comic that much, at least despite their brutality and the horrible actions they committed throughout the series, The Boys were getting somewhere and accomplishing something, even if they hated themselves for it and were ultimately lashing out like "angry boys." Meanwhile, Hughie, Butcher, and MM continue to lash out in the show, but their rage is not only petulant but also ineffectual and worthless. Not only are they getting nowhere, but they're effectively right back where they started at the end of each season, with little to show for it. Doesn't help that Vought is too big to fail due to being a large corporation that owns everything.

[@ruby8455]

I absolutely hate how they took Annie's assault so seriously but then Kripke describes Hughie being assaulted as "hilarious". Disgusting.

[@Thane3999]

Honestly, Season 4 is very inverse of Season 3. Season 3 felt like a joyride, that was incredibly intense throughout, but mear the end, machine broke down and got stuck, ruining the experience. Season 4 felt like weird house of horrors, that felt kind a corny and boring in a Halloween way, but was slowly building up to biggest scare possible, that left impression on you. Even though Season 4 was weakest of all seasons, and episode 6 especially was a downfall, majority of storylines payed off (yes, even Frenchie dating gay guy) in the end, which made it mostly worth it

[@liamphibia]

For everyone who have been shipping Frenchie and Kimiko since the beginning, I'm sorry.

[@shrouls]

​@@liamphibiathey are together by the last ep tho

[@M00PSY]

@@liamphibiayou know that bisexual people are gay right?

[@VendettaPSC]

@@liamphibia Why, they get together at the end of the season? Colin was a throw away, and thats the main reason people hated it, it was obvious it was a throw away.

[@Nermeen.]

​@@VendettaPSC You mean we hated the disapreance of Colin and we wanted Frenchie to continue dating him?!?!?

[@premium_chicken_nuggy]

The worst part of this season is how spiteful it is toward its audience. 75% of the scenes in the show intentionally mentions real-world politics (the puppet scene in Episode 7 pissed me off the most). It’s especially spiteful toward a huge chunk of its audience, because it often singles out white people, and disrespecting some characters who happen to be white guys (i.e. Hughie). There are several characters whose conversations consist of making fun of white dudes. Eric Kripke and his team are well aware about what we hate in modern movies and shows, and they constantly use that against us. For every mention of the word “woke” or “libtard” there is an equal bashing of straight white dudes (who are apparently all right wing by default just by existing) to match it. For example, when Sage talks to Homelander about reputation in Episode 3, she makes a condescending comment about how our favorite characters growing up were all straight white males, which she compares Homelander’s reputation to. It might come off as just a lukewarm joke, but there are many other examples of this (i.e. When the Deep confronts Starlight and comments “because I guess it’s cool to hate on white guys now”, even though this is all coming from a villain character. Kripke and his writers intentionally make the villains “speak facts”, which are automatically invalidated because it’s coming from the bad guys. The Boys wants to be self-aware, but it has nothing to say, just empty platitudes about our real world and how “woke” people are “evil” while also joking about how racist white people are, especially from Sage and Tek Knight. For some reason, this season feels like a Twitter-tier hit piece on straight white guys in favor over an actual story. And yes, this show was always “woke”, but at least with Season 1 it kept things purely fictional, without even involving the Republican and Democratic parties. But from Season 2 to now the writers gradually introduced real-world elements into the show. When you have Homelander call one of the villains (Newman) a “libtard” in the first episode of your newest season of your superhero show, you know you done messed up.

[@miticaBEP07]

Also Firecracker is just “we have Stormfront at home”

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@miticaBEP07 and firecracker is nowhere near as threatening as storm front

[@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 also nowhere near as strong

[@captainbotstick2443]

She’s really nothing like hee

[@acutefailure1]

Wish Stormfront

[@saltoftheegg]

I don't think so. Stormfront was German fascism, Firecracker is American fascism. It's much stupider.

[@HR2007-o3f]

Frenchie and Annie’s character arcs are rather mediocre. The finale was fabulous, but that doesn’t save the season. It just doesn’t have its previous bite.

[@dains6623]

I hate how they haven't really showed a genuinely good supe with powers at all. The closest we have to that is hughie but his powers were temporary. Not everyone is going to be a terrible piece of shit.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

Say whatever you want about the comics, but even with Garth Ennis' abject hatred for superheroes with just nearly every single one of them being incompetent and destructive lunatics who are more trouble than they are worth, even the original source material includes a few Supes who are flawed but ultimately benevolent in some way or another, such as Love Sausage, Tek Knight (who, unlike his show counterpart, is actually a genuinely nice guy struggling with sexual psychosis brought down by his brain tumor), and the Superduper team. I wish the showrunners should've kept this version of Tek Knight instead of... whatever the hell we got.

[@Nermeen.]

A Train is becoming one..

[@bimmelhex3025]

imo the beginning, especially the episode with the researcher team gave a really good start to the season but sadly it didnt hold that high. But nothing has real consequences in this season and it feels more like a sitcom constantly going back to the status quo.

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

But it didn't go back to status quo, Homelander is in charge of the goverment, Butcher left the team because he wants to kill every supe and The Boys are caught. That wasn't the status quo previously...

[@bundyh]

@@ivanagustinortiz5237 and that all happens in the last 5 minutes of an 8 hour season.

[@burgerandy2729]

@@ivanagustinortiz5237I get why people dislike this season, but it has its moments. Episode 6, specifically Tek Knight is a stain for sure. However, the build up and climax have been the strongest compared to other seasons. Don’t get how people say nothing happened when it’s the second season (aside from the 1st) where things actually change drastically by the end.

[@milton7763]

Flying horror sheep, Hughie’s unsatisfying plot, the gore just for the sake of gore and no plot, the unbearably woke messaging, the absolute lack of a good story,… it’s all terrible. But what really really surprises me, what I had never expected The Boys to do, is for episodes on end be boring!

[@johnsai4074]

I think it was heavily implied that sage wasn't planning literally everything out, she was just smart enough to react to everything that happened and improvise to make it end up in the way that worked out the best for her.

[@pokeaust7800]

I feel like a lot of Sage’s plan was less “this was the only way this could happen” and more “she had 20 backups because of how unpredictable Homelander is and how much she can’t trust him”. There are a few things that genuinely surprise her like when she found out about Webweaver’s death so I don’t think she’s actually 20 steps ahead, she just had backups ready and acted on them in very specific ways to make sure Homelander ended on top no matter how many times he fucked up, and this kept her in his good graces in the end.

[@EdWedgie]

I actually felt fatigued from the gore in the show and I’ve never minded it but when they’re doing things like constantly killing Kimiko like she’s Kenny from South Park it gets old

[@Farmeryeti]

I enjoyed Season 4 but they could have gotten away with having Season 4 being the final season and making it 12 episodes instead of 8 to just put in the worthwhile stuff from the S4 we got to make it all make sense. The Webweaver/Tek Knight sex dungeon episode was total filler, more or less just to bully Hughie some more.

[@afrolund80]

The fact that it seems like not a single thumbnail about the show exists. Without the image of Homelander sporting a psychotic smile. With a face full of blood. That pretty much told me all I needed to know about the show. I saw watchmen already.

[@chip1464]

Is the hbo watchmen good? Its a graphic novel as well isn't it?

[@afrolund80]

@@chip1464 It is a graphic novel. I haven't seen the HBO series. Only the movie.

[@Nermeen.]

Watchmen Movie is so good.. it's my favourite superhero movie out of Marvel and DC universes.

[@afrolund80]

@@Nermeen. You are a sad, sad little man and you have my pitty..... Just kidding. The moment was perfect for a Buzz Lightyear quote and I just couldn't resist! I had a hard time getting into it the first time, for some reason. But it grew on me during the second viewing.

[@nahuelmat]

I absolutely hated the smug responses of "oh you're JUST realising what's it about? Then the show was making fun of you too ha ha" to any criticism of season 4. It was the least enjoyable season for me, and big parts of it were how Hughie was completely disregarded, plus Sage's entire "I planned it from the start", which sucks balls because she seems really cool, but the writers have no fucking idea how to write smart people.

[@NoirOrchestre]

Nothing about how they are forcing ideology on the viewers, which is what the show was criticizing in its first season ?

[@demonseed360]

Anyone else feel like the whole shapeshifter thing came outta nowhere? I feel like it would've been better to completely dump the Colin storyline and somehow integrate it into Kimiko's backstory, so it integrates with the overall story better. Seemed like a plot device that was added at the last second.

[@JayEm1325]

The tension Homelander conjured up everytime he is on screen in season 1 is completely gone. That time he is questioning Frenchie while they have Translucent hostage is unmtached. This show should have had 3 seasons, tops, they are just extending it with nonsense.

[@mamadoubarrie6607]

Did u not watch the final or the episode when homelander goes home 😱

[@JayEm1325]

@@mamadoubarrie6607 I did, not sure what you are referring to exactly, but what I mean is in season 1 Homelander felt like the ultimate threat. You cant deal with him in any way but evading his presence altogether. Now we have scenes like when Hughie was in the air vents and Homelander couldnt deal with him. People say its because he couldnt see but I mean... Homelander is fast, REALLY FAST, Hughie escaping made no sense. Lets say he does escape, how come Homelander didnt just go to his office and killed him? My point is that before you could only PRAY Homelander didnt notice you as a threat. now it seems you can piss him off to the point he is gonna try and kill you but 5 minutes later its all fine. The threat is gone.

[@burgerandy2729]

@@JayEm1325to be fair that aspect of Homelander was lost later on S1 when Mesmer snitched on the Boys. Hell, in S2 the Seven had the Boys dead to rights in the storm drain. Things get less contrived when Rayan and temp V is introduced because all of the sudden Homelander can’t out right kill, either from Rayan’s attachment or his fear from getting his ass beat. Either way this season Sage nudged Homelander to keep them alive; due to her real plan requiring them to assassinate Victoria. You could also argue Homelander didn’t want to personally kill the Boys because of Rayan, seeing as he hasn’t found out what he’s done.

[@JayEm1325]

@@burgerandy2729 In season 2 it made sense in a way since he still cared about his public image. The Boys had the airplane video as leverage to keep them alive. He hated letting them live but his need of love outweighted that. He obviosuly did not care anymore when trying to kill Hughie, but somehow Hughie survived. It was just terribly written, it really feels like Homelander could just blink and his The Boys problems would go away but he just doesnt becasue...plot? It really takes you out of the experience, suspension of disbelief can only go so far. I am still looking forward to the final season, they stretched their story thin but I have hope for a strong end to it.

[@insertnamehere259]

@@JayEm1325You bring up one small scene and somehow Homelanders menacing presences is gone?

[@JerzCe73]

I think Sage's master plan hasn't been revealed yet. I think she usually poisoned Firecracker with those lactating drugs and that it will transfer to Homelander, so the flimsy "Plan" that was more coincidence than strategy will play out differently in the last season: fingers crossed:

[@BR-ty3hx]

"Petit UE getting SA'd is funny! Cmon guys...laugh! Please?" - Kripke

[@Thane3999]

People keep repeating that, but where did Kriple actually say this?

[@WanderingChin]

​@@Thane3999 "Well, that's a dark way to look at it! We view it as hilarious." Kripke on Ue's assault by Tek Knight and Ashley - he does later clarify his thoughts, but his initial reaction of the scene being played for laughs isn't a great indicator.

[@leon.battles]

​@@WanderingChin your dumb he didn't say that

[@BigPurp9]

Didn’t know this is how people felt about it. I found it funny, but only because it follows the shows “so graphically over the top you can’t take it serious” tone.

[@homogenicmp3]

Bravo Kripke

[@AvengingTiki]

This felt like a four episode season stretched into eight episodes padded with shock value and empty plot points. I agree that if it had been padded with more meaningful character scenes it would have been a lot better.

[@neilhannan7525]

The Boys Reminds me of The Anime Elfen Lied it's Violence for the sake of violence a show like Better Call Saul has violence moments but it feels earned and not tasteful SPOLIER: When Lalo shoots Howard in the head it's brutal and has an impact on the story it's designed to show that Lalo is a threat to the characters and it's gets the audience attention

[@cloudstrife4534]

That’s a good comparison, honestly.

[@nont18411]

Plus another reason that scene was so effective was that nobody expected Lalo and Howard to be in the same room ever. It felt so wrong on so many levels but also made sense to the narrative. And by killing off Howard in a room that we had been familiar with throughout the seasons feels like we were witnessing an actual murder in our own living room.

[@TheRavenir]

I love Elfen Lied, but I can't deny that you do have a point there...

[@Scribbly_Chi_10]

Well boys is not even comparabale to breaking bad universe, boys doesn't deserve that much credit, it's enjoyable show, but the storytelling sometimes definitely lack, just the way you said it.

[@motor4X4kombat]

Speaking of shocking i just saw Queen's Gambit because i didn't when it first came out. Let just say after watching furiosa i just became an ATJ simp, but theres a scene in that miniseries that leaft me speachless and is not even a shock value show. Spoilers The scene where Beth saw her foster mother's body lifeless in the bed really f*ck me up because i got a friend that suffered the exact same experience. Without any type of blood or violence that scene disturbe me more than anything in the boys because it actually feels real. I don't want to heard anyone telling me that the boys is "realistic" because this shit is realistic as a family guy sketch.

[@pandamystery5990]

also for me the line was jeffery dean morgan being an imagination of butcher or whatever, it straight up gave me ptsd flashbacks to dexter season 6 the whole traivs and dr gellar drama, its a waste of a great actor to make him an extension of a character who himself had a bearable storyline in 2 seasons, other than the fact that the move is cheap, overdone, lacks any creativity, and downright stupid

[@justjoannak]

Oh gosh, I *HATED* Dexter S6

[@christopheralvarez1551]

Yeah once the ice skater massacre happened I just rolled my eyes cause it was pretty obvious they couldn't figure out a way to have gore that episode

[@theascendunt9960]

I felt like that too when they did that daisy chain scene with the guy who can clone himself. I'm not saying you should shy away from shocking scenes but that scene served no real purpose than just shock.

[@ezirayimerwolle6321]

agreed that web weaver had way too many gross scenes but the death scene was still important for plot because it further exposes to firecracker how messed up her hero, homelander, really is in the background, which will probably have some sort of payoff later based on other related scenes of them together so far

[@Felix5k]

it would made more sense if she backed off from The Seven, but she was so "shocked" with Homelander killing WW that she happilly murdered Vaught's staff.

[@michelleperng00]

i also think the writers may have lost track of what it means to kill a supe in season one, the show drive the point home that each supe requires a specific kill that adheres to the supe's weaknesses -- which is why the boys keep trying to figure out new ways to attack and end homelander. there was build up to the killing of translucent and the set up of translucent's powers and impenetrable skin beforehand. but by season 4, supes are dying left and right from essentially having their guts spill out in one form or another-- granted those supes are generally considered weaker but it still feels a little unearned. butcher no longer needs strategic planning to face a supe but just poses as a menace as a human being, almost like a deus ex machina in certain scenes. furthermore, it seems as all supes are afraid of homelander, as his eyebeams or gut punch could end them, even tho most supes have regenerative abilities, but to an unclear extent. perhaps the extensive regeneration of kimiko is specific to her powers (she won't die even if her guts spill out), but ripping out the insides of a supe seems generally effective towards most, so why does the show reintroduce the idea of not knowing how to tackle a specific supe killing in season 4 again, if not only to give the show another reason to keep the deep around (all of that yapping was to talk about this point). when the boys incapacitate the deep, they could've taken a shot at ending him, but the show decides to remind audiences that supes aren't as easy to kill, as if several didn't just die by being stabbed of some sort. there hasn't been any set up for the deep having difficult to penetrate skin, but even if he does, he also has gills that have been set up to be sensitive and painful to touch. if anything, the gills give the an easy way in to rip apart the deep and spill his guts (i sound demented), but that was glossed over since the show wasn't ready to kill him off. point is, the continuity of the supe powers and their kills seem unclear to me, which makes the show suffer a little imo since the boys can't be completely ineffective in killing supes, but sometimes when they do, it also seems too convenient.

[@Turtlpwr]

9:44 you can’t just have her disappear and then show up in the last episode saying “yep I planned all this” and just leave it at that. Felt so lazy

[@cortesimerci35]

She clearly couldnt predict all the things but she was smart enough to make it work. I mean she was kicked out from the last superhero group so its evident that she has problems with human interaction and predicting human behaviour .

[@shawnhenderson2091]

The latter half of the season was good, but the satire isn't as fun when its pretty much just word for word what a certain sect of society says and does now, plus the gore just feels obligatory at this point

[@baidajel]

they should've deleted the Spiderman , Frenchie's stupid relationship, and focused on a train , butcher, hughie and homelander. A trains redemption was the only good thing in season 4

[@BL-hw4mn]

A train definitely had the only enjoyable character arc this season

[@Princeify]

The problem with constant shock value is you lose the contrast that makes it "shocking" in e place. Episode 4 of this season may be my favorite of the whole series and, while nothing Homelander did feels particularly violent compared to everything else we've seen, it feels super brutal. It plays against the other plots we see in the episode and every action taken by Homelander feels much more personal than another nameless character being turned to mulch. Compare that to the (in my opinion) abysmal Tek Knight episode where every scene felt like wringing a towel dry. At some point the "shock" just drags and offends the audience.

[@BCWasbrough]

It's a personal theory, but I don't think we've seen Sage's actual master plan play out yet. I can't buy the smartest person alive looking at Homelander and thinking that putting him in charge is a good idea. I find it far more plausible that she's setting him and Vought up for complete and utter failure. I think the end of the next season, which I understand is the final season of The Boys, is where we will see everything "fall into place". Homelander can't die a martyr and Vought can't be seen as a business worth copying. Butcher may be aiming at the symbol, but Sage is aiming to take the whole system the symbol stands for down. Or at least, that's my take. It's Hollywood, so who knows if they actually have a good ending brewing.

[@koraxacollins9645]

its like hes saying what we're all thinking! I Really thing Sage got done dirty by how it ended. I think a better angle would've been to concede that this wasn't how she wanted things to go ideally, but there are benefits like not needing to deal with Nueman, etc. And reinforce the idea that things just work out for Homelander, not because they really do but a means that futhers/strengthens her manipulation of him which then could come into play during season 5. Theyre already planed the seed with her little Queen mauve diary. I hope they know how to water it,

[@Ottped]

Wow this might be the first time I’ve disagreed with one of your takes. The “webweaver scene” wasn’t about him, if it was he wouldn’t be farting webs and stuttering. It was about firecracker. That was the first time she saw how brutal homelander is, you can see it on her face, you show it at 3:11. Later in the season she’s at the teknight party and realizes she doesn’t fit in and is a puppet to sway the masses. Then at the end, homelander looks at her like a dying dog when she’s sick and tells her to go down to the other end of the table. Webweaver was never important, he was just how the boys tricked homelander by using his addiction to make him confess. Instead, this whole time it’s been pointing towards a firecracker flip to the boys, or at least betraying homelander. My prediction: she will air the airplane footage on vnn, causing homelander to let loose

[@lpr5269]

He was always brutal. They were just looking for more creative ways for him to kill people. I imagine it went like this in the writer's room. "So Homelander kills Web Weaver. How should he do it? Laser eyes? No, that's been overdone. Punch him and pull out his heart? He's done that before twice. Tear the guy in half? Bingo."

[@Ottped]

@@lpr5269 You’re probably right in that they wanted a new way to kill him, but imo its all to show firecracker how insane he is so he could’ve done it any way and gotten the point across

[@noahruiz9532]

Hughie being sexually abused in one episode and then repeatedly raped by someone pretending to be his girlfriend on the next and it basically not being addressed, plus Annie being mad at him and the angle that it was LITERALLY RAPE (hello???) not even being considered.... Yikes

[@arya8165]

I think most people have no stopped watching the show entirely or only watch now cause their waiting for Homeland to FINALLY do something

[@TheKhal22]

? He literally inches up every season in terms of power you ppl just DONT pay attention at all

[@owenflibbert8019]

He just because the leader of America and imprisoned all the main characters, what else can he do?

[@RepostGuy101]

@@owenflibbert8019 tbf he's not the "leader" but he's the one controlling the leader

[@NiteOwl2000]

@@TheKhal22They mean in terms of fighting The Boys. Yes he has power over people we don’t care that much about, but The Boys just waltz around him messing up his plans with zero repercussions. Cameron Coleman, Annika, and Webweaver were in more danger than Butcher, MM, and Hughie.

[@TheMrMagnus]

I completly agree. Character building and character interaction is what makes certain plot points so impactful. Unfortunately too many series can dig themselfs into a hole where it gets lost (or somewhat lost). I rewatched the first season and the character building and interaction made things so more impactful

[@Thane3999]

I actually don't think shock value humor and violence is the worst part of Season 4. *What was the worst was reference humor, and puns.* Supe Critical Theory, Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Zendaya and freaking Pete Davidson. Did I they make new live action season of Family Guy (written by Twitter) by accident?

[@valentai_777]

The shows always been pretty politically blunt.

[@phabiorules]

@@valentai_777The other seasons had at least a hint of subtlety, this one had none.

What is everyone's beef with Pete Davidson? Seriously, what has he done to everybody?

[@RepostGuy101]

@@valentai_777 it's not the fact it's political, it's the fact it's so on the nose about it that now it's not really a funny gag at politics and more just annoying with how much they're overdoing

[@twelve11]

Told a mate to watch the first and last episodes of the season and the only he question he had was "What happened in the other 6 episodes?" I said "NOTHING"

[@alchimia2730]

I blame Seth Rogen

[@SamaritanPrime]

The thing about shock value is that, eventually, the audience will no longer be shocked.

[@Jlunce]

I honestly get the complaints about the over the top sections of violence (like in episode 6) and the overbearing messaging but I can look past most of that as long as the show is still good at something its been good at since day 1: character writing

[@Zmal93]

I honestly believe this season the writers have basically taken soooo much time to add stupid s*x*al scenes that added NOTHING at the expanse of moving the plot forward. This happened in Gen V season 1 as well. I'm not one to cry "woke" or be a prude but what the hell.... In season 1 there was a fair share of "intimate" scenes with supes. Showing how they use their superpowers for pleasure, but there was usually a point to it and it was interesting. From the first episode showing the secret club where supes were all going at it, to popclaw crushed a guy's head while she sat on him. But this season.... What was the point of Colin and Frenchie? Frenchie turned himself in and got out 1 episode later. Was this needed to get him with kimiko? Was it just there to remind the show it's sooo LGBT supportive. What was the point of Ashley and Coleman? They could have framed him without that stupid Dom shit. What was the point of Tek knight and webweaver, and Ashley? What was the point of showing how webweaver needed MM to insert the drugs? That scene went on for a looong time. Or webweaver constantly gushing out his fluids while homelander interrogates him? What was the point of splinter and that human centipede scene? Even black noirs murder bon*r thing felt so stupid. There's much more I'm probably leaving out. But every episode I felt like there was so much time dedicated to this nonsense. The only scene that made sense to me and I could see adding value to the plot was with homelander drinking firecracker milk directly from her. Anyway, there was a lot wrong with this season beyond this, but I felt this took up so much screentime instead of many other important storylines.