Car Alignment With A 3D Scanner

[@SuperfastMatt]

Go to ground.news/superfastmatt to become a smarter news consumer and see every side of every story. Subscribe through my link for 40% off unlimited access this month.

[@Splarkszter]

PLEASEUSE LASER GOOGLES. LASERS KILL YOUR EYES. :)

[@shred1894]

Have you tried making target tape for your scanners? Put the targets on strips of tape and you can make them easier to apply/remove.

[@ogfoxhound]

Just get some good casters for the shop stool you have.... Or....... 3d scan bottom of stool, 3d print casters, install, break, THEN buy new ones!!!

[@WickedMachineWorks]

The creality scanner screen goes white when it cant porcess all the data. Basically you have to break up the scan into smaller parts and combine them in another 3d program. It's junk. And their tech team you deal with is less than interested in helping.

[@boydw1]

It's almost like you need a BB sized paintball gun that can just rapid-fire shoot reflective dots onto your surfaces.

[@johneduffy]

Most exciting thing that's happened in the last month: I'm leaving the gym and a car drives past, I think "that car looks cool" "wait that kind of looks like a weird viper" "wait that IS a weird viper" "wait that's THE weird off-road viper!" So Hi Matt! From that guy who looked like he just left the gym. And ran half a block to stare at the viper while you were at a stop light. And was smiling like a four year old seeing a fire truck for the first time. All hail the algorithm.

[@RicardoMoreiraKrahnin]

The most honest sponsored review 🎉

[@wheelerlight8541]

“Hey, here’s our product. Can you compare it to that product?” “Yeah, yours is worse!”

[@oldman1944]

"Not fully cooked" describes most Creality products perfectly.

[@randiiburleson]

This is software development in a nutshell: the pursuit of Minimum Lovable Product... followed by immediate (hopefully pilot) release and then repeated rounds of iterative development. Moral to the story: don't be an early adopter unless you're game to be a Beta tester.

[@MrNgMichael]

@@oldman1944 I think their software is what's lacking usually. For at least their 3d printers, their hardware is good for the price.

[@planespeaking]

Ground news is what a lot of the world does every day i.e. decent journalism . US TV news is a bizarre echo chamber where the interviewers editorialised the content. It's just awful

[@patrickl9930]

Damn you said “lasers” but then no pew pew sound effects were had

[@groeacht8525]

Did he do the inverted commas action tho?

[@coltonmcrae5873]

Those effects are reserved for Future Matt.

[@MrSchrootenstein]

The future is now old man

[@stevenkelby2169]

👎

[@tturi2]

future Matt problem

[@stevetheunicorn898]

Not super accurate and kind of a pain defines my existence.

[@untitledphysicist3205]

Too real

[@runninggag1077]

You are a 3d scanner.

[@stevetheunicorn898]

@@runninggag1077 A 30 year old 3d scanner with the knees of a 75 year old 3d scanner.

[@Raven74947]

I can relate

[@ShelBelSapphire]

Yeah, I feel that.

[@MrDominikni]

If you put the tracking markers on painters tape you get way faster cleanup afterwards and somtimes can reuse them

[@shonkydonkey]

I was thinking just get some foam or wood boards, cover them in targets, then lay them on the floor. Then you could put them them away for later, and could put them behind whatever you are wanting to scan next time.

[@motorv8N]

Brilliant idea!

[@Trackpad_User]

For magnetic parts they also make magnetic reflective targets. I worked at a place that was doing 3d scans on mostly steel parts and those things would last a surprisingly long time as long as you didn't use harsh cleaners on them.

[@Enter-a-name55]

Very good hint mate. Thanks.

[@Link_240]

thats one of those "duh, why didnt i think of that" moments lol

[@devinholland2189]

Adding tracking dots to an epoxy floor kinda sounds like a good idea.

[@brianb-p6586]

Permanent tracking dots... nice idea!

[@Trackpad_User]

Considering those tracking dots are retro-reflective, I'm wondering if it might mess with the tracking.

[@xaytana]

@@Trackpad_User How spherical retroreflectors work mostly answers this for you, considering they refract-reflect-refract, an epoxy floor would just be a different lens surface with a different reflector array otherwise it's the same refract-reflect-refract process that spherical retroreflectors operate on. The only major concern is how level the surface is compared to where the reflectors are sitting, even the self-leveling stuff will probably turn out a bit wonky and uneven. At that point you might as well gouge out your epoxy, inlay some reflectors, then screed a thin layer over the reflector; the benefit of this is how localized the work is, routing a small hole keeps things roughly the same depth from the floor surface that exists, screeding a small patch also has the same benefit with leveling and layer thickness, this process would result in minimal error and gives you a protected retroreflector. Beyond this, natural wearing of the floor is the only real concern; though futureproofing your buildout can also be a concern, if you don't plan ahead and go from a Miata to a crew cab long bed truck you'd be screwed. A better solution is just getting reflective tape, like what you can throw onto a trailer to meet DOT safety regulations. Specifically for alignments you can do a perimeter of the vehicle, tape important surfaces, have extra references, and tie them together if needed. It's actually a good idea for anything that isn't a traditional setup or any DIY work as long as you understand what you're doing. For any general purpose job, it'd work fine as well, and with how the stuff bends it can go on fairly complex surfaces. The tape is relatively cheap for how much you get and how much you actually use, alignments are just the big outlier in usage considering the perimeter heavily assists in non-warping of the model. Until there's a spray-on solution, doing the inverse of what talc does which is used to dust reflective surfaces to assist visual-based scanning, DOT tape is likely the solution going forward for large projects using reflective TOF scanning.

[@sonofguns1016]

I was thinking floor mats might work, something you could roll up and put away once done

[@WankyPolygons]

i've tried to make a fishing net with tracking markers on it. so i don't need to stick and then remove markers every time. just throw the net on new object and scan

[@needleonthevinyl]

The alignment machine uses infrared cameras to image the wheel targets for angle data. The four cameras (one for each wheel) are located in the centers of the LED clusters in the ends of the tower arm. The LEDs act as a camera flash and flash each time the camera takes an image. Since the targets are retroreflective and the camera is perfectly coaxial with the LEDs, the target image return is very bright and accurate. The software (WinAlign) just uses the skew of the known target pattern to determine the angle of the wheel.

[@SubTroppo]

I wonder how much hard work is behind that "just" after "software".

[@felixyasnopolski8571]

@@SubTroppo not much, tbh. OpenCV is a magic wand for such things. You know the specific features of your reference image, and you need to do some math operations over an 2d array of points. If you interested more -- take a look on the affine transformations, there's where the magic becomes "just" :)

[@richardprice5978]

i was told by-2008 to-14~ my boss USA/Nebraska 3d-party shop specialty in DSM/caddy's/diesel's that buying the equipment was 1m~ new and 90k+used so he/LLC passed on it and made a exclusiveness deal with the other shop up the road instead and focused on other parts/job's like engine rebuilding/R&R/fluid change or battery ect, so this scaner/cad if it gets good enough it's 2 problems solved for a 20th or 2-9K usd is a lot more cheap and use's less shop space for the ones like my previous job/shop that ROI is 1~ every ~90day's~needs averaged-out yes some weekend's it was more like 9-vin's others was/weekend's-1 or 0 for me racing auto-X or drag having trunk-space but still ways of tuning/road-side/pit's is superb helpful like the general idea, wondering why there isn't much interested in built in-systems that automatically track it for damages and heating-ect psi-ect and or automatic adjusting for wearing out ect

[@Validole]

​@@richardprice5978punctuation, my man. If you care enough to type it, put in the extra effort of structuring it to be readable.

[@DanVogt]

​@@Validole his sentence is punctuated correctly as far as I can determine

[@bobpowers9862]

It never fails, when watching a SuperfastMatt video: I am forced to learn something new. This is not a complaint. All Hail.

[@mriguy3202]

And the crowd repeated, All Hail.

[@ss2115oz]

SHOP CHAIR: I too found the traditional square crawler chairs a pain after they have aged a bit. My solution was I had some old cheap office chairs - the ones that are spring loaded with lever for height adjustment and the adjustable back on a piece of curved powder coated steel. I took the back off from under the seat section so I only had the seat section. Very stable with five wheels on splayed struts which often allows me to get closer if needed. Height adjust is good for ground height and up on jack stands as well as under a hoist and its comfortable to sit on. The one I currently use I've had for about 12 years and although grubby as heck, still serves me well. Mine is a cloth seat. Vinyl may be as good but possibly slippery and vinyl with age tends to dry and crack/split, so I'm happy with the cloth.

[@koala0884]

Marker tip: If you want to scan steel parts, buy cheap magnets, put markers on them, stick magnets to part. Easy to stick on and take off. It even saves money on markers.

[@Enter-a-name55]

I've done literally hundreds of alignments. Any mechanic that understands the alignment machine, is capable of making adjustments, and knows how each setting affects the handling and tire wear, should be able to align it. I've done lots of race cars, 1/4 mile type, and a boat load of offroad trucks. I always enjoy doing something out of the norm. I would of jumped all over Matt's Jaguar. Then again, I'm a bit of a Jaguar snob.

[@JH-zo5gk]

That's the problem tho. I've done more alignments then I care to remember, custome builds, racecars, a tractor once. Most people have no idea what those numbers mean, how changing 1 effects the other or even how to correctly use the machine. They just see green as think that's correct, forget the spread.

[@gg48gg]

Matt, I've 3d printed some multi-angled shapes and stuck targets to them. When I need to scan I just placed these objects near or on the thing I want to scan. No more stickers. Easy and work great

[@Davemane43]

after he showed the the other review at 14:30 i was thinking the same thing. just 3D print shapes and add a magnet and the tracker to them.

[@thinkerdoit]

@@Davemane43wasn’t a magnetic surface.

[@Printedperformance]

​@@thinkerdoit double sided tape exist.

[@richindex96]

I love that they sent you that for direct unbiased comparison

[@jeffmcdonald101]

They even include return postage given the result.

[@samclegg2530]

Keep up the unbiased reviews, It’s awesome to know what’s actually good vs who pays creators to say whatever

[@tomicktwo]

At my work we have laminated sheets of tracking dots that we tape to car bodies and the scanner doesn't pick up the clear plastic and picks up the body perfectly beneath

[@Redmenace96]

Excellent

[@enemyspotted2467]

At my last job, I used to program and operate an extremely large CMM, large enough to park a large truck on. I always wanted to align my car on it, but alas, it was in a cleanroom. I’m glad there’s other weirdos out there who also see a piece of metrology equipment and think “How do I preform and alignment with this.”

[@anomamos9095]

Tip For easier more consistent scanning. Print a compass image with metric scale marks on sticker paper in any suitable size for the job. Decide where you want the vertical and horizontal axis to be in the job to be scanned and if critical align the compass with the true horizon and such. Take some pictures of the job to use as an underlay for the scanned image to correct any noise in the Cad software. This method can save hours cleaning scans that are less than perfect.

[@blank.e5plus]

i am repling to save

[@apm1478]

Folowing

[@TinkerersAdventure]

Super informative! 3D scanner and DIY alignment are exactly what I need for my next project

[@brianhalberry]

I'm glad I watched. Not to help decide which scanner to buy (I'm a technology troglodite) but to hear you do the unthinkable....pooh-pooh a free gift. Integrity, even that of a crazy guy who makes an off-road Viper, is refreshing. Faith restored.

[@AW_DIY_garage]

Ohh dang when Super Fast Matt mentions another KZbinr I watch Making for Motorsport!!! This makes me happy.

[@phmiii]

Matt: I Love your Channel! I have had many shop stools with wheels. None of them were wonderful. Then I found a slightly used 5-wheel office chair in the trash: free is the right price. I took it apart and tossed the arm rests and back. I reassembled it at the height that I like and I have been happy ever since. Please keep up the great work!

[@ericjon262]

The algorithm sent me here to say thank you for the honest product review, and to say that the software issues are also present in their lesser scanners like the "Ferret". I was hoping for a way more awesome scanner when i bought mine, and was thoroughly disappointed. All hail.

[@kraabol.mp4]

I put an old skateboard deck on top of a harbor freight transmission jack, moves great and is adjustable

[@Phonophobia]

For the stool: ParkTool STL-2 workshop stool. No storage but great wheels which don't mind soft rubber floors and it's height adjustable. The plastic cover tears easily tho if it's pierced, but the base is amazing.

[@ElDJReturn]

Also super comfy seat on the PT

[@Phonophobia]

@@ElDJReturn I defo 2nd that!

[@randallthomas5207]

Re low friction plates on the floor: UHMW. It was originally designed as a bearing material. Two smooth faced sheets with a dab of water is pretty slick.

[@brianb-p6586]

"UHMW" means "ultra high molecular weight". It's only the first part of the name of the material, but it seems to now be common for people to leave out the critical remainder of the name... it's normally polyethylene (UHMW-PE).

[@ZackXJ]

I've been trying to figure out the best way to do my own alignments. I'm mainly doing this because I've found that most automotive technicians are incompetent at actually performing alignments, and that a lot of shops are not taking the care required to make sure that the alignment machines are being used properly. I used to work at a big automotive shop and did lots of alignments with the hunter machines, you have to make sure the heads are attached well, and that you perform the check correctly, then after that, there is a bit of skill involved with making accurate adjustments (not difficult to learn but takes more care than most guys working in these shops are willing to give). When I left the big shops, there was still one guy who I could trust who worked at them to do my alignments, but now he has quit, and in my experience 90% of technicians can't do alignments to my expectations. Using the 3d scanner for this problem definitely intrigues me, they solve so many other problems already, but it still feels like the affordable models still have a long way to go, excited to see how they continue to develop but i'm not quite ready to pull the trigger on one yet.

[@SamChou]

Honest review with a bias, honest promotion of a bias exposing news source. Another reason why this channel rules.

[@highvoltagefeathers]

My relief at having bought the einstar and seeing that it's still the best.

[@willbennett7508]

String alignments are very accurate when done correctly it is used at the very top level of motorsport

[@anon-means-anon]

The McMaster shirt is a flex

[@mikefrachel8292]

I got the best shop stool from harbor freight the one with a couple drawers and a nice cushion, then got 4 rollerblade wheel casters from amazon. Built some adapters on the mill so i could mount the casters solid in the squarebar frame. Now it rolls amazing and is solid when the wheels are locked.

[@stevewiley3832]

What might be an interesting test is a hybrid DIY alignment. Have a string setup where the support poles have marking dots (you could have permanent "dotted" poles for future alignment needs) and then you scan with the poles and strings. This way you get the precision of scanning with the repeatability of using a precise setup tool. This setup would be closer what a pro shop uses as far as theory of operation is concerned.

[@rickmellor]

Spot on. I use the Einstar for the big car parts and the Raptor for things like interior features. I don’t use the NIR mode on the Raptor at all. I’m glad I have both because IMHO there is no overlap between the two. They don’t compare In infrared mode and Einstar has no lasers. I hope Einstar V2 adds lasers.

[@kersh4w]

Adding higher quality casters to my shop stools greatly increased my shop happiness. Casters with sealed roller skate bearings and good tires make all the difference!

[@somedude2492]

Certified probably good enough

[@huzudra]

I do alignments on old vehicles we sometimes don't have specs or full specs for. Generally depending on suspension and tire type you can get close. Camber between 0 and -1 degrees, toe near zero but a little toe in makes it more stable feeling, and caster which is very important will be heavily dependent on if it's radial or bias ply tiers and if it's double wishbone or mcpherson and power or manual steering. Caster is really critical, as important as toe.

[@huntersturgill1910]

Love the objectivity and honesty.

[@gemmaallen437]

One thing that works really well when scanning large featureless surfaces is drawing swearwords in drywipe markers on it. It works great for things with symmetry (like plates and wheels)

[@leetvolk]

I was watching another video, I believe on cleetus mcfarland channel with a 3d scanner. The company stuck the targets to painters tape, so you still had to put them down (which sucks) but they were much easier to remove. Simple grid of tape for the targets makes it easier.

[@FG-418]

I recently got a Einstar and have been pleasantly surprised by the ease of use. I have started scanning a lot of stuff from my ''85 RX-7 restomod project. I got foot spray for reflective surfaces but in the end I haven't really needed it. The geometry that gave me the most trouble have been thin sections if you need to wrap around. I have used rags to give reference geometry for patterned and rounds parts. I didn't thought of tape for flat surfaces. This will go into the bag of tricks when I start doing the body work. If I wanted to use it for wheel alignment check, I think I would place rags on the floor to help keeping it straight between the wheels by scanning both the rags and the bottom edge of the car. The software has been fine, but for me the rewind function hasn't really worked. After 1h of 100% CPU it crashed. That was after 15min of scanning, might just have been unlucky. I haven't tried the measurement yet, as I imported everything in CAD anyway and rebuilding the suspension as a bone/sketch geometry. But from your video it does seem decent, will have to find something to use it for. From CAD, by drawing the circles from multiple holes I had relatively good results finding out bolt patterns and such compared to manual measurements. Alignment note : Make sure your floor is flat! (mine definitely isn't), and needs to be level if you use gravity as a reference for camber. If not make some shims, put some numbered marking on the floor and reuse them.

[@marcusretaken72]

This video answers a question I would never have asked. Thanks Matt!

[@JFirn86Q]

Appreciate the honest review and comparison, makes perfect sense and really showcased the difference with the software. Software is the biggest part of these things it seems, hardwire wise it's just some cameras and lights.

[@bobroberts2371]

The string method in measuring front and rear toe is very accurate, This is done on formula race cars using jigs that attach to the car. What happens is you find the center of the car ( left to right ) on both ends then place a string at equal distances from the center. Use a dial caliper to measure from the string to the wheel flange and you have toe. This does not take into account a bent wheel but of the wheel is bent, all of your accurate measuring does nothing anyway.

[@maxscott3349]

Caliper on a string isn't going to be any better than a tape measure if you know what you're doing, but I'm glad somebody pointed out that the accuracy of the string depends on what your reference point is

[@Harry_Gersack]

"does not take into account a bent wheel but of the wheel is bent, all of your accurate measuring does nothing anyway" that's why the alignment guy rolls the car backwards and forwards a little bit

[@coltonmcrae5873]

Damn, you hit Creality with the "I only like you as a friend" with the soft let down and all! Here's hoping they get their software game up, cause the hardware seems to have promise.

[@scottferguson1932]

Much respect for giving an honest review.

[@nickwheeler8231]

I find that a glossy magazine under each wheel works well as a wheel plate. Which reduces the amount of grease that I end up wearing...

[@pablodixon1275]

I would not consider the alignment shop as the gold standard for measurement. I used a hawk eye elite for multiple years. They are good but not always repeatable. Taking the targets off and on then rolling the car again would often show slightly different results. Cool video, thanks for sharing.

[@Redmenace96]

He listed it as 'actual' values. Thought that was pretty bold. They are just the measurements by another method. Judged more reliable, but like you said, get a second opinion?

[@abovewongart]

INcredible!! I wanna be at your level one day.

[@phillyphil1513]

the Powerbuilt brand makes a rolling stool with 4 inch casters and tray storage, and they also have an HD version with 6 inch knobbies to match the Viper 😎, both are rated for 300lbs. don't have one personally but i got to sit on one back at PRI 2023 and it seemed decent, if only for a quick test. my current shop seat also leaves much to be desired so i've been on the hunt for something better myself.

[@shoitah]

Thank you superfastmatt for keeping your sponsored reviews honest!

[@JH-zo5gk]

How to marker targets. Use strips of tape then out the markers on that. Makes for easy removal. I made about 25 marker stands with my 3d printer that has the markers on them and a strong magnet on the bottom. Just stick a hand full of those on and scan quickly with the laser. Then you can reuse them too, added magnets to a turntable so can just toss the marker towers on that too.

[@KaliKavala]

Woow, a video that contains 3 videos inside. Great one, loved it. And comparing with real alignment was cool move too. Loved the video, great, great job

[@firworks]

Have you seen some of the handles for the Einstar people have designed? I printed the Einstar Handle MK2 off Printables and it feels a lot nicer to try to angle it and get it aimed in places vs just clawing it normally. Pretty simple print and I just added a bit of fuzzy skin in the handle portion. Downside is it obviously doesn't fit in the case anymore but if you use a 1/4-20 D-ring for cameras as the fixing screw it's quick to put on and take off.

[@firefly2472]

hell yeah a new video, GET THE POPCORN BUDS

[@jake9705]

Here in Southern California during The Great Recession, a company called Firestone Automotive -- desperate for revenue -- offered an amazing deal: unlimited alignments for your vehicle for life for only $200. You didn't even have to buy the wheels or tires from Firestone. I was a broke college student at the time when this deal was announced but I knew I had to get it come hell or high water. To date, it's been one of the best investments I've ever made. Sure the mechanics at Firestone grumble when I drive my pickup over to them with cheaper tires from their competitor down the street. But whatever; we have a contract 🤷‍♂️

[@NielsHeusinkveld]

So that deal from the 1930s is still valid? :D

[@kawi4nia599]

The string method is extremely accurate. All our championship winning cars get toe set with string. The trick is to do it on perfectly level ground (scale pad)

[@Blue-hr9ch]

My alignment technique *goes to the front of my car and just looks at each wheel compared to the rears* ‘yep that looks good enough’ and has actually worked fantastic!

[@kbent88]

Finally the first honest review. theres a dozen reviews on the Raptor on YT and they all have been given to them for review and they all seem to not be critical of the software where you have been. The reviews on Amazon are not great even, They recycled the listing from one of their other products that had good reviews to pad it a bit. its dishonest and amazon doesnt seem to care.

[@kiiiisu]

i have to say that viper is badass

[@craigking5361]

Thanks Matt, Made up my mind on which one I’m going to get. I do exactly what you do mostly.

[@Zombiesrofl]

Vyper makes the best shop stool, with or without wheels.

[@k.r.3263]

The conclusion, that you sort of touch on at the end, is that to get a good scan you need to use the appropriate scanner for the item being scanned. The Raptor is less than ideal using NIR on large objects. The Raptor, which I just received and paid for with my own funds, is very good at small parts. I scanned an engine main cap as an early test part, main because it has small enough to fit on my desk, and because all major dimensions on it I could check with a 0.0001" micrometer. I took four measurements using constructed planes in Zeiss Inspect and 3 of the Raptor scanner dimensions were within 0.0002" of my manual micrometer measurement. The fourth dimension was less than a 0.001" off, and this dimension was produced from two merged scans when I flipped the main cap to scan each side individually. I suspect the Creality Scan software is at fault here for how accurate it is at merging two scans and aligning the common points. Overall, if you scan that rear engine with the Raptor, I think you'll be impressed. And as you noted, the Einstar didn't impress here. Like the Raptor wasn't appropriate to scan the car, the Einstar is not appropriate for obtaining that level of detail and dimension of an engine. The Raptor should be ideal for this. Print re-usable 3D structures that you can add the 3D scan markers too. Give it a magnetic base so you can stick it on ferrous parts, like the Viper iron engine block, and you'll have less complaints about having to use markers. I've made a few 3D marker structures that have a through hole, so I can slip them over threaded studs, and other things that may be present on parts like engines.

[@jaredlancaster4137]

Except for how the viper has an aluminum block

[@k.r.3263]

@@jaredlancaster4137 And you're right! I had it stuck in my head, due to years of lore of the Viper engine just being a "truck engine" fitted into the Viper, that it still had the truck variant's cast iron block. As a non-Viper enthusiast, I still appreciate learning about the correct. That said, everything else I said about the choice of scanner and results remains valid.

[@lynxoflight72]

I do enjoy the honest review of the raptor a lot and especially since you cited reasons why it could be really useful for someone and situationally better. Kinda like ground news if you will

[@sfract6833]

oh neat, new video.. - love your style Matt.

[@applechocolate4U]

A tip with the targets: use small pyramid shaped objects with flat surfaces (something 3d printed for customized shapes) and stick the targets to those. You can then stick those to your scanned object with strong tape or glue and you have the best of both worlds

[@LarsSveen]

The best low shop stool I ever had was one that I made out of a spare car passenger seat I had lying around. I just bolted it onto a piece of plywood and mounted some chunky casters underneath. I did have to shim up the rear seat mounts though so that it wasn't too reclined.

[@ahniiso5642]

String method is awesome if you have the space and time. They make chalk markers too so you can make marks on the floorr as you go.

[@benjaminniven4210]

I used the Creality scanner yesterday! its a really nice scanner, especially for its price point. The blue laser method is used with professional metrology-grade scanners and it is nice to see it being used in something more consumer focused. We had some magnetic scanner dots, which really helps with the setting up/taking down stickers. Only on magnetic parts though. The accuracy problems you had sucks, we did not run into that. It might have been better to segment the four wheels into their own scans with markers on the edges to align and merge all of them together. Also pro tip, when scanning with markers in general the scanner has a significantly easier time tracking when you do a first pass just to get all the markers. I do agree with what you said, the Creality software does seem a bit half baked, although I am used to the Scanviewer software.

[@tristin5723]

You could set up targets at each wheel, on the floor with known coordinates. Then use that to do isolated scans at each wheel.

[@gavster89]

For the wheely stool I recently swapped my office chair wheels for roller blade wheels (they're a slightly larger diameter which raises the seat height the amount I need) and because they're thin and hard they roll really well on flat floors, so that could be a low cost option to fix your current seat

[@NBSV1]

They also likely have bearings in them. A lot of office chair wheels are just the plastic wheel on the shaft. They don’t feel much different unloaded, but the bearings are going to tolerate weight much better.

[@maxanderson7344]

Vyper chairs are the best shop chairs. The have large casters so you don’t get stuck on cracks and are very stable

[@ronhaefner7833]

Tire pressure and condition can affect the wheel alignment. The Hunter uses IR emitters and cameras to "see" the targets on the wheels and watches for changes in orientation. The camber is not concerning given the application and I would have suggested slightly negative unless road crown is a concern. We have setup different Cobra replicas and really have two different set of alignment numbers, one for street and a second for circle track. The Hunter (at least my Hawkeye Elite) can do a wheel alignment on the floor and can accommodate a wide variety of vehicles and trailers. It should be able to do the land speeder on the floor as long as the cameras can see the targets. We have done ATVs and side by sides. It is interesting that your caster is lower than expected but then steering return and stability may not be a concern again given the application. After watching your video I have a deeper appreciation of what the wheel alignment machine can do and how fast it makes the measurements, like in real time. Interesting to see if your cad can make the thrust angle and steer ahead measurements.

[@landyngosselin1484]

Icon rolling stool with a lawnmower style seat from harbor freight is super comfy and rolls pretty good, it's about $120.

[@electric1821]

You want a lab stool. Like the one the doctor sits on when you get a physical. They have a wide variety with a vast price range depending if you want a certificate of compliance with it. Another pro tip is to get a third party adapter that lets you swap out the old junky plastic wheels with roller blade wheels on skateboard bearings, smooth as butter across concrete floors

[@brookeonmaui]

I worked for Hunter Engineering (makes the aligner the shop had). I spent years training users on alignments for cars and heavy duty trucks, from a Ferrari dealer to buses to military vehicles. A high quality shop with this equipment and a good technician can align anything. A 3d scanner can in no way measure Steering Axis Inclination, the Ackerman angle, included angle, or various toe variations under steering inputs. (Your improvised turntables miss an important needed feature - a center pin to keep the slip centered; without that, the measurements change with steering input in a way that would not happen while rolling.) All these measurements contribute greatly to a car turning and handling well and should be measured on a custom built car. The measurements can be refined with test drives and adjustments; you may find that a thing you built was not Good Enough (perhaps a Panhard rod and idler arm) but your car will handle much better if you have these mastered. All hail the algorithm and Aloha!

[@NBSV1]

I expected him to have problems with reference to the ground. Much of an alignment is based on how the wheels interact with the ground. Seemed like scanning like that references mostly the body and chassis which might not really be straight or square like you want. Alignments are one of those things that seems so simple until you really start changing things. Then it can get complex with how many moving parts need to work together for something to drive right. And, how much changing one thing can throw everything else off. I’ve seen people move an A-arm mount for clearance and then not understand why it drives bad when they set toe and camber…

[@brookeonmaui]

@@NBSV1 Exactly! I had a shop call me that they could not align a customer’s ‘78 Buick. I set up a time to see what was going on. His wife, 110 lbs soaking wet, brought it in for the alignment and the husband complained that it pulled when he drove it. When I met the customer, he was 350+ pounds. I had him sit in the car, did the alignment, and it was spot on. Pulled the other way when his wife drove, though.

[@Benautodesign]

I never tried to align the 928 with my Einscan… 😂 But I did scan the front of two 993 to prove than one was bent ! And it was super accurate and clearly showed the bending done in the accident!

[@ARealHumanNotABotIPromise]

I can't speak to the kit you are using, my setup is very different, but I'd hit the engine with some grey primer (matte, not black, not white, in between) before scanning. I've used that matte tan camo paint the returning soldiers are so fond of to excellent effect as well. Also, on the fiberglass, if you are not worried about it bleeding through the paint (never tried with automotive paint, only cheap rattle can, and have had issues), you can do little dots and dashes with a sharpie to give it something to grab onto, with less effort for post processing if you care about using the surface for more than reference. I prefer not to use a black sharpie as it may see that as a hole, so I bias toward a worn out red or green (blue tends to be a bit too dark). There are probably better, still cheap and easy options. I've never once used those reflective dots. They are either too big for a tiny scan, or way too costly and time consuming for a large scan (for my purposes). I'm sure a misting of rattle can around the torque converter won't stink too bad as it cooks.

[@trottermalone379]

Excellent review. Appreciate your candor and critical rational.

[@brianatkins8217]

I've had great luck using rolling office chairs with the back and armrests removed for work seats around the shop. Just careful with the recline option. You can find free and cheap ones that work great.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Seems like the solution is the creality scanner and few ribbons of pre made dots you can masking tape to the non-critical areas. Seems like it would get you the best of all worlds - nearly as good instant scanning (maybe even just as good if you have to break out the tape bundles on the Einstar) and a better end result. Would need to try it of course, but it sounds like the Creality is technically going to be or at least become if the software catches up the better choice all round, and right now might be if that simple tracking trick does just work and get your the higher quality scan.

[@PursuitofSpeed]

It's also just super likely that the supension settled differently between the 3D scan and alignment machine. Any small steering inputs on concrete are going to jack the suspension some and hold it there while the slip plates on the alignment machine are going to allow it to actually settle without any tire scub preventing the suspension from doing so.

[@MunaMahata-et4ds]

I have had the same experience. The geometry mode on the Raptor is practically useless. I tried everything, adjusting exposure, etcetera, but it did not help with tracking. Texture mode worked much better for me, especially with some spray on the parts. It eliminated most overlapping issues. Laser mode with sufficient marking dots was almost as easy to track.

[@nvmyutube]

If that Creality scanner doesn't fit nicely in your toolbox i can give it a good home in mine :)

[@lwebius2111]

The next video shows how you can build a high-quality workshop chair yourself that ends up being 3 times more expensive than if you had bought it and with the intuition you could save money

[@SuperfastMatt]

After I recorded this, I had Send Cut Send laser me some reinforcements and bought some decent casters. So far the upgraded stool is 10/10

[@BrooksMoses]

@@SuperfastMatt : Because of course you did.

[@Todestelzer]

I printed some scanner targets and applied the reflective to them. This way I can reuse them. I own the Raptor and Einstar. For scans like this (whole car) I would use the Einstar too.

[@JimPekarek]

I didn't know Einstar released their Mac version, sweet! As the owner of a gigantic Windows desktop and a nice MacBook Pro, I'm really excited to not have to disassemble my car and take it upstairs to scan. 👍

[@skinnybricks]

Hopefully they keep improving upon it. They're missing out on an entire market of users.

[@planespeaking]

BTCC cars have fitting points in the bumper like the string method but you use the car as a reference point, so you always have an accurate datum to work from* *Unless you bend the car

[@davidawaters]

Cool video. Just a guess from a fellow engineer (I have 3d scanning/RE as part of my manufacturing services): both scanners handled camber well because it is effectively a shorter measurement (could be referenced to the ground plane). Toe has to be measured from one side of the vehicle to the other, and the Creality is compounding error much worse across that distance. I’m thinking the tolerances for tracking (vs losing tracking) have been opened up at the expense of accuracy. BTW, I hate the stickers too and barely even want to quote 3d scanning jobs because of them. I end up putting them about 2” apart on a lot of parts and they take more time than actual scanning. Edit: 🤦‍♂️ I wrote this before watching the last 3 minutes where you covered what I was talking about. Yep, stacking up errors over distances is what I was thinking too 😂

[@davidawaters]

Also thanks for the tip on the wad of tape. I do similar things but hadn’t thought of anything that easy. For threaded holes, I typically screw in shoulder screws and scan the shoulder to find hole locations. For other holes I use gage pins.

[@spinnetti]

I bet the string method is more accurate than the scanner.... I did string once then took the car to a high end race shop, and no adjustment was needed.... Mostly its just a time consuming PITA lol.

[@jaredlancaster4137]

I have not had good luck with the string method because several of my cars have different front and rear track widths. I just stick a tape measure in the tire tread and align toe, and I have gotten to within 0.1° that way.

[@indiebekonn]

It always seemed to me like the best alignment specialists all over the world use the string method exclusively.

[@turbo32coupe]

@@jaredlancaster4137 I agree with you. A tape measure at the front of the tire and the back is accurate enough. Usually set mine at 1/16"

[@TTAPMECHANICAL]

Mycanic costco brand green rolling stool is to die for, shits bussin no cap frfr🎉

[@heyallenify]

For a good shop stool, the ICON stool that I bought at Harbor Freight has been amazing.

[@mbox314]

Thanks for going over how to work with the scans in fusion. There isn't many good tutorials on that subject.

[@Simb-l]

If you rolled the chassis off the alignment rack, took all the equipment off and put it back on you can guarantee the alignment would be different. It’s reduce if you have full spherical bearing suspension but. It is usually change by .1-.2 on a road car.

[@jesperwall839]

This is excellent content! I have actually wondered about exactly this use case for a 3d scanner, but have not had the opportunity to test it. Now I don’t need to 👍😀

[@VideoGamerGuy]

Just like to point out the hub mounted style isnt the worst. We use it all the time for alignment on race cars (Porsche Carrera Cup GB) it's less about actual tyre position though and more about a known basepoint and accuracy of changes.

[@FanatikBuilds]

So, string lines… got it! 👌

[@cjg1482]

I do my 4runner with a digital angle finder, laser/digital tape measure, 2- tape measures and two alignment angle rails. Granted, it is solid axle swapped.

[@TRGmaan]

Cool, thanks for sharing this video. Yes, the Einstar software is pretty good, but scanning small objects is a real pain.

[@renevile]

cleaning and lubing the stool helps a ton at my shop...