The Shocking Differences Between the 2022 Subaru BRZ and 2022 Toyota GR86

Fundamentally, the 2022 Subaru BRZ and 2022 Toyota GR86 are the same car. The two have the same engine and body structure, and it can be tricky to tell them apart at a distance. But these two sports coupes don't drive the same way, and that difference made Dan Edmunds curious. Our resident suspension expert got underneath both vehicles to spot the differences. What he found was... ahem... shocking. See more on Dan's channel: / danedmunds
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00:00 Intro
01:16 Differences from behind the wheel
01:55 Front suspension overview
02:41 Front brakes
03:19 Front suspension differences
05:08 Rear suspension
05:59 The GR86/BRZ does not have a double wishbone rear suspension
06:37 Similarities and differences
07:42 Surprising rear subframe differences
09:56 Rear brakes
10:39 Wheel and tire weight
11:07 Conclusion
12:57 ?

[@caranddriver]

What other cars, trucks, and SUVs would you like to see in Dan's driveway? Also check his channel for similar videos: kzbin.info

[@The_Stanman]

Carrera S vs GTS. Interested to see GTS's helper spring and other detailed changes.

[@LucasLamonds]

Only cars. Never trucks or SUVs! I'm looking forward to the Z car. Would be nice to see a manual Supra too, see if Toyota changed anything for the better....

[@cgmoog]

Obviously Supra and Z4

[@ScottALaFollette]

MX-5 Sport RF vs MX-5 Grand Touring RF. Any ride/handling differences there ? Thank you.

[@xalexanderx7342]

2021 wrx vs 2022 wrx

[@SteveHarrellRally]

This is the most thorough explanation I've seen on the suspension differences, thank you!

[@GodSpeed3]

I agree !

[@lezzbmm]

^^^

[@MappleDapple]

Seriously good work here guys. Thank you!

[@hardchemist]

Definitely and it reinforced my decision to go with the BRZ

[@zinny999]

@@hardchemist is a tuff choice, as GR86 looks better and most Japanese test drivers including Tuchiya said GR86 is slightly quicker and DK went and bought BRZ. Personally 6k price gouging by Toyota Australia, mean I also bought BRZ and it will arrive in 8 days.

[@AthenaSaints]

I watch so many KZbin videos about cars. Dan Edmunds is the only one I know, who does suspension deep dive.

[@ATStone]

Savage geese?

[@corystansbury]

Grassroots Motorsports?

[@akapeeks]

@savagegeese some cool info here

[@noobatnothing]

you don’t watch the right KZbin channels if you think this was a good suspension deep dive… lmao

[@Mienboi821510]

How many is “many” by your definition? You clearly haven’t watch the channels stated in this comment chain. 🤔

[@josephcitizen4195]

Since these cars came out all the journalist could talk about was the diff suspensions but no one ever explained who or how they were different. Thanks for this in depth explanation Dan! Great job!

[@aroundomaha]

That was informative and helpful. I bought the BRZ but like you (and most people) prefer the Toyota front end styling. My purchase decision came down to the dealership experience. My Toyota dealer had no useful information but Subaru was able to take my order on the spot and give me an estimated delivery. Keep in mind I was ordering in October 2021. This car has generated more discussion and curiosity with other car people that than any car I’ve owned since a 1986 Omni GLHS.

[@uba51]

This is the way I’m leaning. The Toyota dealerships I’ve dealt with are crap. The Subaru ones seem much better to deal with. I as there time frame accurate?

[@aroundomaha]

@@uba51 My timeframe was accurate. It might have been 3-5 days off but not more than that. Once the VIN was generated I could track the car via Subaru's website.

[@uba51]

@@aroundomaha Thanks man. I’m think I’m going with the Subaru based on exactly what you said. It’s crazy.

[@aroundomaha]

@@uba51 No worries glad to help. Happy to answer any questions.

[@garboi8976]

@@uba51 it was opposite for me. The Subaru dealership wanted 3k-5k markup depending on trim and didn’t want me to pay cash/ was trying to force me into financing. At Toyota the price was what the sticker said and it was pretty much hey if we get one of these we will call you first. They got one and only one lol lucky me.

[@ybrz_edng]

Yeah, I also like the front looks of the GR better, but the BRZ's smile grew fond inside me after seeing so many pictures. Dealership experience was another big deciding factor. Local Toyota dealers listing 22 GR86 at 43K USD(with no definite delivery date or options I would end up getting) definitely didn't help. In contrast, the local Subaru dealerships had an option to preorder at MSRP. Even my friend that works at one of the local Toyota dealerships said that it would be a much smarter choice to go with Subaru if I could overlook the initial design preferences. Crazy. Now happily awaiting my 23 BRZ to arrive this September.

[@googlepissoff5776]

Fingers crossed that those Toyota dealerships have gone out of business in the last 5 months 🤞

[@FizzyMotors]

I love how nerdy this is. I need more content like this! Thank you so much for making this

[@Angry-Lynx]

That far from nerdy. Nerdy would be to take that shock apart, change internal valving, and observe speed vs force damping chart on shock dyno while talking about fluid dynamics 😂 And how important is fast damping

[@Fatima-ni8iw]

I’ve had my GR86 for months now (after switching from my base model 2020 86). Let me just say, I absolutely looooove the new sporty feel, it’s so spunky in the best way. Never a dull commute, and even more fun on windy roads and hard corners. Such an upgrade compared to the last generation. 100% would recommend to anyone on the fence about it

[@louisemmett1999]

Spunky 💀

[@Fatima-ni8iw]

@@louisemmett1999 well it’s not fast.. idk, but better than the old gen

[@louisemmett1999]

@@Fatima-ni8iw no I think they’re great cars too and agree with your point, spunky means Semen/sperm in British English slang haha

[@chrisx5127]

I still want the Miata more.

[@andyduhh4278]

@@louisemmett1999I was thinking the same thing 😂

[@ahmadjavedaj]

Love the deep dive thank you for doing this and educating me on the intricacies of suspension tuning. I like that both cars have a slightly different feel. I think it's nice to differentiate between the two makes your choice more impactful.

[@NarekAvetisyan]

Fantastic video explaining the differences. I want a BRZ more than I want a Ferrari. Because I wanna mess around with it, upgrade it and learn. And I also really love the philosophy of the car. Naturally aspirated, RWD, manual, lightweight with low center of gravity and balanced weight distribution, + cheap. It hits all the marks of a drivers car.

[@rl1275]

Having driven the 86/BRZ, get a Miata. You can’t really tell from reviews, but from driving the cars the Miata is way more of a playful car

[@Angry-Lynx]

Having driven miata and 86, 86 feels like luxury car compared with cheapest fiat

[@Shay-eo5kp]

I also prefer the BRZ/86 over a Ferrari. It’s more appealing, it’s a manual, I feel more connected to it than to an artificial and synthetic supercar.

[@Angry-Lynx]

@Thor Odin son sr3 radical are garbage, get ferrari enzo

[@lmartinmiami82]

@@Angry-Lynx nah... get a second hand M140i

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

Surprised at the differences... it's actually nice to see they are not just clones of each other, and each brand took their own approach.

[@qadrik]

This is one of THE BEST videos I’ve seen. The explanation in plain language allowed me to learn so much more about the HOW the subtle changes add up & what does it actually mean. Bravo!

[@ArmandoDomingos]

I love these deep dives. It’s so amazing to hear this stuff from a real expert and not a manufacturer. Thanks!!!

[@alfonsealbanese1785]

Great job and review.. wish there were more reviewers that actually knew something more about engineering and didn't focus just on very apparent and obviously visual design.. Thank you for not wasting my time

[@skip741x3]

Fascinating and ultra informative breakdown of the differences! never seen anyone else go so thoroughly into this... great work bro!

[@kcw9313]

❤️ this level of technical analysis. More pls!

[@The_Stanman]

This was great! Would love more content like this.

[@GTKlopfer]

This is some serious quality content! Thank you very much! Love it!

[@nova3889]

Your thorough analysis earned you my respect and subscription. I must say though that there's really nothing shocking in there differences. Looking forward to seeing more of your reviews.

[@Emacspirate]

This was a great write up, oration, review, and visual showcase. Very impressed! Top marks, thank you!

[@phillipmoon3369]

Dan, excellent video and explanation. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@twinturbo3470]

Dan......love your videos, always a pleasure when they come out. Could you please dive into the actual Chassis stiffness in your deep dives? Examining the chassis of cars and point out where the engineering design in structural rigidity . Thanks so much

[@GAMERIC5]

Awesome video. I already own a brz but seeing the differences rather than reading them on a spec sheet is good. 👍

[@harris7963]

Thank you for the detailed breakdown!

[@EngAbdalla82]

Great video. I like the way how he explained both suspension systems. He is professional 👍🏼

[@user-xg3me6qg2k]

Bravo.. love to see such detailed video about the mechanical layout 😍

[@bronstadheim164]

Simple yet effective way of making the differentiation between the two. Thanks.

[@Camphlobactor]

Edmunds reviewing suspension in a video..... this is great. So good!

[@m.m8760]

Fantastic comparison. Love these videos.

[@erichaslim2245]

Love how you demonstrate the stiff body structure…😊…excellent technical reviews on the suspension differences👍

[@DAHITTMAN]

very helpful and informative best review yet thank you

[@AREA_RC-51]

Dan, this was awesome... really learned some stuff watching this.

[@idokwatcher2062]

12KG lighter front suspension due to knuckles is amazing. Worthwhile upgrade for serious GR86 owners.

[@maikeru1990]

13 pounds (5.9kg), not kilograms. Nevertheless, definitely awesome. Time stamp in video: 4:05

[@idokwatcher2062]

@@maikeru1990 Yes 6+6=12

[@bearclaw5115]

I've heard in a different video that the weight difference was only 4lbs per knuckle. There's no way it's thirteen (even though he did show that # in the vid). Aluminum is 1/3 the weight but half the strength of steel, so they need to use twice as much by volume. So Using aluminum saves 1/3 the weight of a steel component and there is no way those steel knuckles way 40lb each! So the true weight loss is likely 4-6lbs per corner. If someone else knows precisely, please chime in.

[@zinny999]

What you're saying is that GR86 owners should upgrade to BRZ parts 😁😅

[@CarGuy87]

Great video, keep the technical stuff coming.

[@AudioHead809]

Wow the brz is aging much better in my opinion. I remember when they were first released I thought the gr86 looked much better but now the gr looks old while the brz still looks fresh. Curious to see in another few years.

[@pan4632]

right? so weird, hated the brz at first but now prefer it

[@AudioHead809]

@@pan4632 glad to know I’m not alone on this one! Lol

[@Ronaldalan114]

Awesome review and explanation. Thank you

[@TomYearley]

Thanks for the detail

[@dearbulls]

This is the most needed information that I've been looking for all over the internet. And Thank you C&D for making it free to watch.

[@LooseNut099]

A most excellent and useful analysis. Thank you .

[@2355eric]

This is a very professional video, well done and thanks

[@hubertmantz1516]

Excellent video! Thanks!

[@thatanimator2724]

23BRZ owner from Japan here. lovely shots of all the internals! very well done! great information! beautiful car(s)!

[@MrCanonballs]

Thank you for posting this Dan. Warm regards, Alan.

[@shaggyman8564]

I have an MD degree from TUMS and Dan I must say is way smarter than me. I purchased my BRZ in Jan. 22 based on the suspension differences Dan so expertly explained and am very happy w the BRz. Btw I am so glad it has NO turbo and of course I have the mt. Well done professor Dan.

[@jhonviel7381]

@@Angry-Lynx in ten years we will know what is actually better, but yeah who cares you only live once, go fast as possible NOW!

[@Angry-Lynx]

@@jhonviel7381 ye ill prolly won't be alive 10year from now lol ;

[@paulauksztulewicz4803]

Very informative and thorough. Appreciate your work!

[@jmf_5]

What a great video! Thank you C&D

[@arcelivez]

Great stuff! Thank you so much for explaining

[@victorherrero4790]

Awesome video!! Great job.

[@HenG20]

Great video comparison and thoroughness! ❤

[@rohansully584]

excellent assessment. thank you!

[@djSmokeShow]

Such an amazing review, thank you sir.

[@ak2112]

Brilliant video. I bought the brz and am glad to have the softer, more comfortable of the two. It rides great.

[@Mr99Burns]

I kept my 17 Camry rides even better and no payments

[@Angry-Lynx]

Great comparison 😂👍🖕🇵🇱

[@sshah2545]

This was honestly such a fantastic review. Thank you so much for going into such great detail

[@mrs3lfd3s7ruc7]

Very well broken down topic. Thanks.

[@Mexxx65]

BEST BRZ/GR86 KZbin Comparo video!!!!

[@phil702x]

This was a cool video. Would be great to see comparisons of various car evolutions, and you might folks ideas of shortfalls in one generation which could be strengthened by upgrading to the next gen parts.

[@dirkvantroyen9170]

Good explanation, bravo!

[@rolan2dr]

Great analysis

[@k24hybrid]

Nice video! Thanks.

[@r.j.bedore9884]

I think someone's going to make a lot of money selling aftermarket front bumpers that look more like the GR86's but that are designed to bolt onto the BRZ.

[@ragweedmakesmesneeze]

Enjoyed this deep dive, BUT after a good explanation of how the rear roll bar mounting are different, I was waiting to hear WHY one would do this? Is one mounting style "better" than the other? How do the mounting points affect the ride/handling of each car?

[@ImUrOBGYN]

Completely agree. Which is why I'm now off to perform a search to satiate my curiosity.

[@MugiwaraElvin]

@@ImUrOBGYN let us know what ya find

[@Sandals-WithSocks]

@@ImUrOBGYN how’d it go?

[@lastfrog5941]

what a great video, thanks heaps for your expertise.

[@drbichat5229]

First car I bought in the US was 1994 Civic EX VTEC. Little thing had double wishbone suspension both front and rear. I miss that little car

[@nikytamayo]

I've always loved Edmunds' suspension explainers and walkarounds from his own website... so glad that we get these on video now from C&D. Interesting RE: the differences. Liked the tuning of the original BRZ versus the GT86 better, as well, and it seems like Subaru have a better handle on the ride/handling balance than Toyota...

[@SLOBeachboy]

Actually it has nothing to do with “having a handle” on anything but rather it is simply a matter of opinion. Subaru decided to tune more conservatively. In other words, towards understeer. And they probably did this for the same reason that virtually all car makers do this and this is because they think it is safer for the average driver - don’t want to get any nasty lawsuits. Toyota on the other hand decide that a car tuned for more neutral or even oversteer would be more fun to drive. It is said that normal drivers fear oversteer and professional race car drivers fear understeer. So, why is this? Well, since the front wheel of a car do the steering, when they break loose (loose grip) there is nothing the driver can do except wait for the tires to regain traction and in the meantime it will just keep heading off in the direction it was going when it lost traction. With oversteer however the rear tires break loose first and since the tires that do the steering still have traction the skid can very easily be controlled. Its just a matter of having the skills to do so. But when an unskilled driver experiences oversteer it is thought that this can potentially lead to a more serious accident then undeersteer would. Or at least this is the opinion of the government and car manufacturers and this can lead to some pretty stupid policies. For example, if I want to buy new tires just for the front of my car the tire shop would put the new tires on the back and move the old ones to the front and then when I got home I would have to change them back myself. As someone who grew up racking cars I know that I want the best tires on the front which does all the steering and 80% of the braking. I’m not worried about oversteer because I can easily control that but if the front wheel loose traction all I can do is keep my fingers crossed. But tires shops don’t want to get sued because a normal driver spins out in the rain and causes an accident due to his rear tires having less tread than the front tires. Of course, if you rotate your tires properly they will wear evenly and you will never have to buy just two at a time.

[@matthewkummerfeldt9795]

an objective and technical comparison of these 2 miatas, how refreshing in an era of unnecessarily journalist-jargon filled you tube reviews

[@Ungovernabletrash]

You deserve more, good content boss

[@garboi8976]

Hey Dan, thank you for the excellent review. I’ve heard others talk about the differences but I wasn’t able to truly visualize it. Maybe it’s the kid in me, but I’m happy it feels a little more rough/unrefined. But in all honesty, I couldn’t feel a difference driving an acquaintance’s brz. But like you said it was on a spirited drive and they felt very equal in that regard. Thanks again for an excellent explanation.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Daily driven old 86 with shorter stiffer springs for year or two. Hard but not necessarily harsh. Eventually started to have some neck pains from it. Now im floating on cit c5 😂🖕🇪🇸🇺🇦

[@dgeo0392]

Great video

[@saadpatel3490]

love this kind of videos

[@immanuel9040]

Very good explanation; very useful.😉

[@mituc]

I'm not sure if this can be easily done in a driveway but diving into the alignment differences as well would give more understanding on the handling differences between the two.

[@kewlbean]

Interesting video, thanks.

[@GoFast865]

Very cool video.

[@l3xx000]

This was excellent! Thank you! I like this level of detail and explanation and as I've been back and forth on these two cars, it's great to get this perspective! Interesting how the unsprung weight at the front would be lower in the BRZ due to the aluminum. I am curious to know more about your perspective on the overall understeer / oversteer characteristics when approaching the limit that seems to catch people off guard in the new BRZ. Any feedback on that?

[@Themis187]

I would like to buy, can you advise me which one is better Subaru or Toyota? Thank you

[@MattyI971]

Brilliant, thank you. We ordered the GR 86 here in Australia. To my knowledge, the rear on the Toyota is specified for a bit more oversteer.

[@rmp5s]

You NEVER see deep looks into suspension stuff like this (aside from SavageGeese) and it's really cool to see. I've been a car guy my entire life and have spent tons of time looking at and learning about engines, turbos, all the fun power bits but have noticed that finding info about the less sexy bits like suspension and aero is quite a bit harder. Keep this up!!

[@justliketat123]

Love it. Can you also share the same detail on the driving experience (,manual gear shifts) please

[@gryphon123456]

Wow. I really didn’t expect that much difference in the suspension philosophies. I’d love to her them explain why they did what they did. I like more feel so I’d still probably go with the 86, plus looks but both are great I think.

[@laserst1547]

according to Toyota, they say their boss prefers the steering feedback from the steel one than the aluminum one and he likes drifting.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Haha what a bs, he loves the .0001cent more he earns on each car by using cheapass material

[@Angry-Lynx]

Typical f***ing toyota, despise that company with passion

[@nahimgudfam]

@@Angry-Lynx wouldn't the steel one be more durable?

[@lastname-Nm]

@@nahimgudfam not only is the iron/steel cheaper to replace and less likely to damage, the feel is probably negligible. I don’t see any justification for the complaints.

[@griffincui]

Excellent!

[@naluczak]

Great comprehensive video. So much better than all the nonsense about GR wanting something more tack-focused that is parroted from one outlet to another. I think you said it best when you mentioned that it is more of a difference in opinion between the two manufacturers.

[@naturalselection4262]

I can't believe they actually put the L arm facing the right way. (rarely do car companies do that) Whoever was in charge of that made a good call.

[@roberts8783]

finally a technical review

[@hatteras33]

I have a premium GR86. It definitely feels stiff. before I bought I test drove the base model about a year ago, I remember it being a bit softer and less road noise. However, I think the ride softened up a little over the 3k miles i've done so far. Or maybe I am used to it. But the PS4 tires on bad roads make a TON of noise. I'd still but it again though

[@redlight3932]

Go meaty on the tire set up more performance and better ride might have to buy smaller wheels tho that or touch the suspension and cut turn in either or

[@AveragePicker]

I’ve got a 2020 86 TRD, and it was definitely stiffer (like most cars are) when I first got it. There is break-in on it. Even my friend who rarely rides with me noticed it and mentioned it thinking I had changed the suspension setup.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Different tires or even better, noise cancelling headphones, but in the sport car that kinda kills the purpose 😂🖕

[@InfinitelyConcise]

Get XBox One tires then, smh

[@gy9969]

Great mechanical and technical explanation of the similarities and differences of the two cars! I didn’t know that the two cars were built on the same assembly line and had a lot of similarities except for the rear end suspension. But I did hear someone comment that the GR86 tends to stick it’s rear out a little on the curves, so maybe that why Toyota made the rear suspension more stiff? I was wondering did you make a video of driving the two cars and commenting on your experience driving with them? The GR86 is a great looking sports car & I heard that it’s fun to drive. I would consider it. Thanks again for your informative videos.

[@mrw6780]

Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate the differences through this detailed analysis. You are top tier as a content provider in this industry. Thank you, again.

[@robertsine8812]

Thx Dan

[@ltkwok]

Very cool. Had no idea of the differences. Besides cost, I wonder what the difference means in driving dynamics and longer term reliability.

[@TheTravellingHobo]

The technical dive was worth it

[@canadianvideos6094]

Thanks so much for the deep dive. I’ve been contemplating purchasing one of these two cars for almost 8 months now, I might take the plunge soon. It’s funny, I keep going back and forth on my preference for their appearance. I originally preferred the GR but overtime I warmed up to the BRZ more. It’s funny how a new car’s design can take a while to be accepted. Personally, I think they both did a very nice job. I’ve had a positive experience with both the Toyota and Subaru dealers, I think this really varies a lot based on your sales person and the dealership’s culture. Both can be good and both can be bad. There’s another Subaru dealer in my area that won’t sell a car without mandatory warranties and other garbage tacked onto your bill of sale. I just avoid them and take my business to a dealership that does business the right way.

[@gs98999]

Toyota costs more in Canada and has worse rates if that matters to you as well.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Not affected by prices crisis huh

[@EzekielLutherWright]

Terrific video Dan! The changes all make sense in terms of the resulting driving xp. I idly wonder how much of the difference (specifically wheel weight+around town manners) can be attributed to the different tires - which is basically a consumable and becomes a non-factor when its time to replace. The BRZ's slight reduction in unsprung weight probably contributes to its better ride in town. The sway bars and spring rates are naturally the reason why the GR is more prone to oversteer.

[@dannyparker2465]

Nice review for all us 86 fans

[@dogsbyfire]

Superb video! Extremely educational yet concise. I wish you had shown your math for your calculations regarding the front suspension. Even a photo of the equations you used would have been helpful. Thank you!

[@kamilb8232]

This is awesome. Even more in depth than SavageGeese!

[@duckydammet2646]

Ooh? Never considered if they'd use a different set up thank you for clarifying good sir

[@oghomelesskid]

i wish i was friends with this dude. awesome work!

[@theusefulchannel]

This vid deserves a subscribe.

[@newamsterdanm]

love the technical review awesome🔰🇯🇵🙇🏻‍♂️🫡

[@j.3854]

Aluminum FTW. And my base 23 BRZ is on the path to sub 2730 lbs. So far I deleted trunk tools -15lbs Noble single exit Titanium Catback Exhaust -25 lbs Going to copy TheTopher and do 16” RPF’s with 19 lb Continental ExtremeContact Sports to drop 10 lbs per corner. Stock base 6MT premium Subaru says 2,810 lbs. Others have weighed it less than that. Assuming Subarus stated weight - my reductions = 2,730 lbs. Love it!

[@6rimR3ap3r]

Interesting to see how different they chose to go :-) On my 2013 GT86 I have bushing lockouts on the rear subframe installed. Makes a whole lot of difference. Negative in terms of harshness over short bumps, but even more so positive in fast Autobahn sweeps. Takes a lot of correction effort out of the steering.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Difference compared to what ?

[@6rimR3ap3r]

@@Angry-Lynx that they decided to change more parts than just the springs to achieve a different setup the same platform. Usually car makers tend to avoid every extra penny so I was surprised they developed different subframes, anti roll bars and front knuckles as well.

[@jrawlins5246]

Like you, I go for the BRZ in the looks category (specifically, the front...like you said).

[@alwynbrown2808]

this reminds me of the 86 Levin and Tureno the suspensions were different and the nose. One had a rally type suspension set up the other a more sporty (dare i say track type suspension) if memory serves