Cell Games Piccolo Vs Super Vegeta: Who Would Win?

[@andrewgarfield9898]

The 2 characters who’ve never fought even once in the show. Now that I think about it so many characters have not fought Vegeta

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Because he's Goku's rival, and funny enough they voice by the same guy in the dub

[@EndoScorpion]

@@TheMythicPulse Vegeta and Piccolo are both voiced by Chris Sabat in the Funimation English dub.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD Which is funny because it was Gohan who beat Vegeta, after Vegeta beat Goku. It's also funny that Goku kept Vegeta alive so he could one day have a rematch and win, but once Goku learnt of Frieza, he literally didn't give a crap about fighting Vegeta any more. So the whole rivalry was only in Vegeta's head since Vegeta left Earth.

[@revalier3670]

@@TheMythicPulse Why would you even type this comment? A simple Google search would have told you Vegeta and Piccolo are voiced by the same person in the DUB. "Pretty sure they aren't though" Pretty sure of what? Your poor ability to do some simple research?

[@denkerbosu3551]

​@@revalier3670 pretty sure of his own memory, not everyone resorts to a corporation to do all the work for them. You can just correct him and be done with it

[@BlazedApples]

What if Piccolo used Clothes Beam to give Vegeta a very heavy outfit to slow him down?

[@DarthFhenix55]

We already saw weight not being that important in fights like against Pui Pui. Vegeta would probably be stunned but that wouldn't be enough to stop him.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@DarthFhenix55 The Pui Pui thing meant nothing because it was the same gravity as the saiyan homeworld. So it was a normal gravity level for saiyans. If the weight is high enough to where Vegeta isn't used to it, then it will slow him down significantly.

[@ojpickle5923]

​@@DarthFhenix55Whis made a suit that Vegeta struggled to lift. PIccolo could probably make a suit that cell saga Vegeta would never be able to lift. It's a shame he never thought about doing that

[@ohhellwhereami2574]

​@@ojpickle5923bro because his ki would easily tear it apart

[@ojpickle5923]

​@@ohhellwhereami2574by the time he rips apart the suit, piccolo could have blasted him

[@jason15212]

The part in the anime where piccolo tien and yamcha work together to help out Goku was always my favorite moment of that cell jr fight. Yamcha and Tien powering up to protect Goku in a way that we haven’t seen Goku be vulnerable in a long time.

[@shaneg9081]

There are only two times that Piccolo wins clean in DBZ. After merging with Nail, and after merging with Kami. And both times, Vegeta gets a come up very shortly after.

[@gowthamb8096]

I always thought Piccolo was in the same league as Vegeta & Future Trunks during the Cell Games. All 3 were all comparative to each other. Even Cell acknowledged those 3 after Goku forfeited as the 3 who would step up to fight him before Gohan.

[@danielsilva-ds2u]

But cell says the only people that can survive the cell juniors are vegeta and trunks.

[@BM-sg1sl]

@@danielsilva-ds2uyeah but there were 2 instances where trunks was shocked at piccolos power post ROST

[@danielsilva-ds2u]

@BM-sg1sl right but then when that was put to the test, cell says only trunks and vegeta can fight back. He didn't say piccolo could. On the field, piccolo wasn't as strong as trunks lead you to believe. I think what's impressive about piccolo ( aside from the kami fusion) is how strong he can get in general. Saiyans need those multipliers. Pre android, vegetas training took his base from 2ish million to 5 or 6ish million. Piccolo went from a little over 1 million to idk, however strong to beat android 20. I'm not sure how strong android 20 is, but I assume vegeta would have to be near full power ssj to beat him. Piccolo says that 20 would have beat vegeta bc 19 took too much energy. So what I think trunks was impressed by is how much piccolo can increase his strength without multipliers. And when trunks in base form felt piccolos strength he was complementing him on that feat. But I'm positive that if trunks went ssj grade 2 he would be considerably stronger than piccolo. My reason for believing is because cell mentions only vegeta and trunks can fight back. So it doesn't really matter how impressed trunks was with piccolo post ROSAT, the evidence in battle proves otherwise.

[@justinarzola4584]

I think Vegeta and Trunks were briefly stronger than him when they fought cell( keep in mind piccolo was healing after imperfect cell blasted him) until piccolo went inside the chamber for the ten days,then they should be equal.

[@theccarbiter]

He was as strong as them as ss but not as strong as grade 2, that’s irrelevant though because they never really use grade 2 after second form cell

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Vegeta Cell Games beats Piccolo Cell Games, but Piccolo Cell Games beats Super Vegeta

[@Cheapstall]

Yeah but nooo

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

​​@@Cheapstall But Yeah, take off Kaio-Ken off your pfp & name you don't deserve it after saying that

[@Cheapstall]

@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD I’m mad at myself for thinking you might actually argue a point

[@zaylendaniels]

Didn’t Vegeta do better against the cell juniors than anybody else though?

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

@@zaylendaniels The video is talking about the Vegeta who fought cell not the cell jrs

[@OurKindofEntertainment]

I always looked at Piccolo's trip into the Time Chamber as training that wasn't just about getting stronger. His training was also about becoming more in tune with himself. What do I mean by that? Well, I'm referring to Kamiccolo becoming his own being. I think Piccolo, Kami & Nail's triple fusion was more fine tuned after that year of training which helped boost Piccolo's overall power/skill. In the anime, we saw Piccolo using the multi-form to train against himself. Heck IMO that is a VERY effective form of training because what better way to identify your own strengths and weaknesses in order to improve? If memory serves, I believe he also did this while training for the Saiyan invasion as well as a scene in the Garlic Jr. Saga. Not to mention, Piccolo had sensed the power of Super Vegeta/Ultra Trunks/Perfect Cell (well as much power as he exerted up to that point) so he had an idea of how powerful he had to become in order to compete with those around him. A lot of sources stated that Vegeta & Trunks' second solo trips into the chamber made them stronger BUT not as massively as their boosts after their first trip inside. I'd place Kamiccolo in the same realm of power as Grade 2 Super Saiyans, but not at the strength of Grade 3 (ultra) & Grade 4 (full power). Ironically enough, it feels like Piccolo could compete with the post-time chamber Saiyans like he could earlier in the saga after the 3 years of training. Ya know how Piccolo was in the same realm of power as pre-time chamber Super Saiyans!

[@Shadow.24772]

aha...and that's why when the Cell Jr.s attacked everyone, Cell only mentions Vegeta and Trunks as being able to hold their own...riiiight~

[@ultimateyagerman]

Nah lol Piccolo has never been in the same league as the Saiyans after Rosat

[@almightyrose7_743]

I agree w everything you said this is well said an thought out !

[@Pack52022]

​@@ultimateyagermanyet piccolo actually fought off a cell Jr and even Vegeta was pissed when he went into the time chamber meaning piccolo is stronger than himself or comparable

[@nicholaskevinwright8214]

If vegeta trained with trunks instead of solo. Really could of made a difference, I'm surprised it was mentioned as a possible what if factor

[@mike0133]

Because it is a comparison based on what we saw and not a "what if".

[@EndoScorpion]

Piccolo would've been a far greater mentor to Trunks. Even if Vegeta and Trunks sparred and got stronger from it, Vegeta wouldn't be interested in teaching or mentoring Trunks in any way, and it was hinder them both still.

[@DSan-kl2yc]

I find it hard to believe. Trunks was surprised about everything in that page. Vegeta didn't get monumentally powerful the second time. And piccolo was not mentioned, he was being pushed back, in the cell jr fight in the small page we see.

[@lavuntecolquitt]

You ALWAYS hittin these my good bro. Great concept and breakdown

[@savemgs]

What if. The 10 days before the Cell games. Piccolo and Vegeta went into the Time Chamber together?

[@afroman5160]

I agree with this Cell Games Piccolo beats Super Vegeta. But Cell games Vegeta beats Cell games Piccolo.

[@TensuKawakab]

I absolutely love your video because I never knew or even thought about so many different pieces of evidence that you showed. Really excellent video. Also I'm glad to see that Piccolo was still so formidable/relevant even in the second half of the Cell games.

[@LSMMIKE]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[@blaketindle4703]

It’d be a very close fight but if they fought right after Piccolo finished his training, I believe Piccolo would win. If they fought after Vegeta trained a second time in the chamber, Vegeta wins.

[@TigerShark_With_thigh_in_mouth]

That is how dragon ball z works. Who ever got the latest buff is the best. But goku will always plot armor his way above them.

[@mike_datzmag1c21]

19:45 @Vegeta’s Technique” 😂😂 I always laughed when he does that…when situation is dire, fire off a bunch of Ki blasts…usually not effective lol

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Love your videos Mike! You always make my day better!🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤

[@keljerel]

I had to pop some popcorn for this one. Two of my favorite characters in Dragon Ball going head-to-head.

[@lonewolfnomadic3403]

because they didn't really ever fight, Cell jr is a good measure power beetwen them. Cell said this to Gohan : "only Vegeta and Trunks that can match Cell jr, even Goku who exhausted can't match it"

[@YonolKom]

First, a small difference in strength can make you much stronger than your opponent. Zarbon was 91.7% Vegeta's level, but Vegeta killed him easily. Secondly, Cell's words were not relevant, he was just wrong, like Gohan Thirdly, Piccolo's cell is able to replace Junior's cell, so this makes it close to Vegeta's level at least. I think it is 85% of Vegeta's level or more, while Junior's cell is 92.8% of Vegeta's level.

[@FNA27601]

​@YonolKom I'd guess at the lower levels the small difference matters greatly but once you get to the bigger levels that small difference does not matter as much.

[@Malinator94]

Thats why I really liked Legacy of Goku 2. Kept Piccolo, Trunks and Vegeta available to be played and all be equally strong. Also, VEGETA NO WAZATA

[@GrubKiller436]

The anime and the manga were very different. In the anime, Piccolo was doing well against the Cell Jrs. To the point he looked better than even Trunks and Vegeta. This was filler however, and in the manga, this never happened. In the manga, Vegeta and Trunks were as strong as the Cell Jrs.

[@YonolKom]

I think it's the same level as Traction Cell, but Piccolo will definitely be close to their level, 80-90% Vegeta's level. After seven years of training in Bu Saga, Piccolo could defeat Cell jr easily

[@mike0133]

Cell game's Vegeta > Cell game's Piccolo > Super Vegeta. After the union with Kami he started from a stronger power than Ssj Vegeta. In my opinion a fight between Super Vegeta before the Cell game VS Cell game's Piccolo, wouldn't be so easy for Piccolo. In my opinion the gap between the first Super Vegeta and the one we saw at the Cell game, wasn't so huge, Cell game's Piccolo is in the middle-more tending towards Cell game's Vegeta(and Trunks).

[@AtomicOwl]

cell games piccolo wasnt having any trouble with the cell jrs unlike vegeta tho ?

[@zabustifu]

11:00 Piccolo wanted to show off how hard he's trained in the anime, somehow forgetting he can fix his clothes with his magic.

[@ianhadlock2405]

Your videos like these are just fantastic thanks for being numbah 1

[@Just-inHaIe]

Piccolo takes on multiple cell jrs while vegeta could only handle one in the anime.

[@docstr8nine778]

" Vegeta's technique" i love that gag

[@rayblair3933]

Great i been waiting on this video i thought you were never gonna do it

[@crisstoff89]

In hand to hand they would be even I'd say but Super Vegeta has more devastating attacks. You have to understand that Piccolo has to jump Imperfect cell - Semi perfect Cell and equal to Super Vegeta , thats quite the jump because he doesnt benefit from Zenkais (even if they are insemnificative after Namek) and we all know saiyans benefit more from training then most races out there, especially since he went alone and no way does he benefit from the same jumps in power. Vegeta was able to jump from 17-imperfect cell - semi imperfect cell , it makes sense he is still more powerfull in attacks.

[@Thromaz]

Mike is pumping these out quicker than Harold

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

"RIP Mace he went out the windu"

[@jordannichols8338]

Who would win? Super Android 13 vs Android 16?

[@shiki494]

Really nice question. I'll give it to Super Android 13

[@cywh1711]

I think Android 13.

[@jordannichols8338]

@@JSmoothSoul No. regular 13 was fighting on par more or less with regular SSj1 Goku. None of the Z fighters have been to the room of spirit and time yet in this movie as well.

[@selfimprovement5873]

I never understood how people could have discussions like these; asking if a dragon Ball character can beat another dragon ball character is likes asking if a "2 is superior to 5?" It's just a numbers game, no fancy techniques will ever be able to close the gap unless it increases the power level.

[@camm8642]

wish they fought at some point always liked the somewhat respect they kept for each other in a guarded way but also the straight antagonism they often had towards each other.

[@BM-sg1sl]

Thank you for putting this debate to bed. This debate has been going on for YEARS.

[@BigHeadClan]

The Galic gun is already stronger than the Kamehameha and the Final Flash is massively more potent by comparison, although its cannon is debatable it was more effective against Jiren than even Goku's spirit bomb which was amped by all the members of his team. People are heavily underestimating just how powerful the Final Flash is, I think there was an interview with Toriyama around the time who also said that Super Vegeta's Final Flash was the single strongest attack in the arc. Its the only time we Cell panic and try to avoid the attack and very likely would have killed him in that instant if it was a direct hit, personally I think Cell games Piccolo edges out Super Vegeta (Pre Cell games) but the margins of power between the two aren't all that great. I think Vegeta going in solo to the HBTC was a mistake and he severely limited the amount of power he was able to gain. Had he gone in with Trunks or Piccolo to train I suspect he would have been on par with Goku in terms of power after the second round of training, but end of Cell game Vegeta is a decent amount stronger but not massively ahead of Piccolo at this point.

[@w0lfguy77]

“VEGETA’S TECHNIQUE” 😂😂

[@jadenhall7938]

Bro Piccolo could not regenerate like Perfect Cell could. If Piccolo got hit with the Final Flash, he would be dead. The fact that Vegeta was able to do that to Perfect Cell tells you who would win when it comes to Vegeta when he first came out the chamber vs when Piccolo came out the chamber

[@Handyrandy2233]

When piccolo left the time chamber,we was surprised on how strong piccolo became even sweating,and when battling the cell jr,piccolo was preforming better then both trunks and vegeta, actually knocking them to the ground.and vegeta is just stupid when it comes to battles,his pride gets the better of him and thinks he could never lose.piccolo being a skilled warrior would take advantage of that

[@Remote.1s]

Uh no piccolo wasn’t doing better then vegeta and trunks cell stated the only ones holding they’re own against the cell juniors was vegeta and trunks.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

@@Remote.1s Cell can state whatever he wants. The anime clearly shows Piccolo holding his own against several Jrs. If we're talking manga, then there's hardly anything to go by.

[@Remote.1s]

@@ShadeSlayer1911 wrong piccolo wasn’t doing anything damage to the cell junior he was fighting he was just dodging. Vegeta final flash from when he first fought perfect cell would’ve killed him if he didn’t move out the way. Arkrai toriyama even stated that the final flash was the strongest blast in the hole arc

[@nanofate8662]

@@ShadeSlayer1911 He was still standing alongside them when SSJ2 Gohan appeared. Which is better than nothing cause he looked in no worse wear than either Trunks or Vegeta.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

@@Remote.1s I don't believe statements. Toriyama could state that Harry Potter no diffs Zamasu. Would you believe that? I believe feats, and I mean concrete feats. This means a hypothetical of "what if the Final Flash hit Cell head on?" doesn't fly with me. Piccolo showed himself being able to handle the Jrs better than Vegeta. Even if he couldn't deal serious damage to them, neither could Vegeta. And since DB runs off of a singular stat for the most part, Piccolo clearly has the higher PL and is therefore stronger than Vegeta.

[@clydenolet736]

Super Vegeta - it’s not an argument

[@alexanderren1097]

Vegeta: “That’s right! We’ve never fought! That’s so weird. Isn’t that weird black man?”

[@alyj8606]

Thanks for the fun videos :)

[@donovanbradford8231]

Myself I agree it depends if it's after Piccolo's first time on the Hyperbolic Time Chamber then yes he wins but if it's Cell Games Vegeta I'm giving Vegeta the edge.

[@itsallaboutMLewis]

Super Vegeta by a long shot. Cell wasn’t even worried about Piccolo and other Z fighters when they tried to stop him during the beam crash with him and gohan. But when Vegeta stepped Cell was sweating

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

Judging by the way cell buckled during that blast. Vegeta was stronger than the rest of them combined not just piccolo

[@shilohwehrmacht2947]

Don't forget special beam cannon is a 5 times multiplier its the strongest beam I'm aware of actually

[@Mr.Amazing2]

I've always wondered if piccolo would have gotten a bigger boost if nail was at full power when they fused somehow...or if kami was at his peak due to a wish...

[@WhaleFuego]

This a really good one I never thought of this

[@frankiejones7858]

I don’t really get how vegeta and trucks really hit that boost they didn’t show what they did in there and I’m pretty sure trunks said vegeta didn’t really pay attention to him so wtf did they do did they actually spar, but for that part around the 10 minute mark I think trunks was just surprised because goku was kinda roasting people when he existed he shut vegeta up by roasting him back 😂

[@jadenhall7938]

Vegeta wasn’t frustrated at Piccolo’s strength. He was mad that Goku and Cell were stronger than him

[@VergilWergil]

The one thing that away stands out to me is when piccolo comes out of the chamber Vegeta basically still calls him weak by saying “what were you doing in there? Taking a nap?”

[@ChicagoScorpion]

He was just talking shit. Trunks who was almost as strong as Vegeta was amazed by how strong Piccolo became.

[@NickMorrison78]

The same Vegeta who thought he could defeat final form Frieza, and got humbled

[@BM-sg1sl]

@@NickMorrison78yep!

[@justinarzola4584]

Vegeta was just being jealous,he knew piccolo caught up to him.

[@thisnewnamesystemisdumb]

Because piccolo fused with kami and surpassed everyone, vegeta expected him to have way more gains.

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

I honestly I would love to have gotten a manga or anime special or King Cold and Mecha Frieza with their army against Super Saiyan Goku and the z fighters in earth

[@bigmanjames7402]

Well since trunks is weaker than goku it might of been a quicker fight, not much to show

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

​@@bigmanjames7402Goku doesn't go all out at first, and would give Frieza and chance to leave

[@i360fantasy7]

Can you please do a video on who would win in a fight between recoome or nail? Recoome was bodying an over 30,000 power level vegeta and nail is stated to be at 42,000. I think that would be interesting!

[@mike0133]

Recoome was stated to be 40.000 while Nail 42.000. Just Google it "Dragonball official power levels". I think that guides about power levels comes from Dainzeshuu, i am not sure, but it's pretty accurate until the Frieza saga.

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Vegeta was like at 35,000, Recoome is like 42-45,000

[@Thromaz]

I'd like to see that.... I think I know the answer but I'd like to see that

[@jeskerjames3260]

I swear I remember hearing somewhere years ago that Cell Games Piccolo was equal to Semi-Perfect Cell. I want to say it was Toriyama interview and it may be the same one where it was said that Supreme Kai was equal to Cell Games Super Saiyan Full Power Goku. But I would like to think that Piccolo was in the same tier as Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell Games, so that he was at least keeping pace with the Saiyans. Still though I think Vegeta and Trunks are stronger regardless, it just comes down to how much stronger. I would like to think the gap wasn't massive though.

[@Kenjitsuka]

Video idea: Nail versus the Ginyu Force minus Ginyu himself

[@thebreakerofwalls9036]

22:35 It's MR. Perfecter Cell! (Thanks Yamcha! Lol)

[@lostintheark5728]

Who wins, us fans and who truly loses Chris Sabat's voice, lmao. Honestly I'm the hugest Piccolo fan, but Zenkai's are crazy, bro Vegeta damn near then trained of course he's stronger unless Piccolo gains massive power boosts thanks to being complete with Kami.

[@Zown2007]

I agree with your assessment. I do think that at the very end of the series, once Cell is dead and everyone has healed up, Vegeta would be the strongest fighter by a lot, except Ssj2 Gohan. The only thing that saved everyone was his swearing-off fighting. I think his base level would have been higher than Gohan's base level as well, or at least very close. I think it is why vegeta was so disappointed in the Buu arc. He realized he was probably the strongest fighter on earth for a while (implying he got ssj2 during the 2 year skip).

[@Eldagusto]

Fantastic, your sensibilities mesh well with my own concerning this so it’s interesting hearing it from someone else finally. You have keen observations such as Veggy and trunks reaction. I was never sure if trunks went another day, and it seems like pickles only went a day but it’s odd he didn’t go another day, but he seemed to be of the same mind as Goku on that. I’m always biased towards pickles so I like to think he can win even if Veggy is stronger but not overwhelmingly so. It’s worth noting that scene in the anime where pickles lets Veggy fight Gohan but he steps in when Vegeta was about to kill Gohan indicating to me at this time Vegeta was unsure if he could take pickles after he just whooped Gohan, or at least do so without becoming g vulnerable to being murdered by the rest after all he was serious enough to kill Gohan. It seemed pickles and Veggy were doing noticeably better than trunks against the cell juniors. Still it’s really understated pickles’ boost considering he went into the room of spirit and time far stronger the the saiyans so his boost naturally should also be tremendous. I like to think he would beat Veggy but the plot armor of Veggy being Veggy wouldn’t allow it.

[@BelartWright]

Fantastic vid, Mike! As always, I mostly agree with your conclusions. It's almost like you're reading my thoughts. One difference is, I would give a bigger advantage to Cell Games Vegeta though. I think, at most, Piccolo would likely be 80% of that Vegeta. I'd put him at 60% or 70% myself. Saiyan biology, the ascended forms, and the 2nd trip into the RoSaT created a gap between Piccolo and Vegeta that lasted into the Buu saga and beyond. I 100% agree that he's stronger than Super Vegeta (the one who fought Semi-Perfect Cell). I never understood why people seem obsessed with keeping him at this level when the story is repeatedly showing us that he's stronger than that.

[@genzowakabayashi2766]

You've brought up very important point that people simply forgot about being that Piccolo actually trained after Kami Fusion and some people make a video or thumbnail with statment "Semi-Perfect Cell level?" when they talk about End DBZ Piccolo. That shouldn't be even a discussion.

[@SansINess53]

Super piccolo can't stand a chance simply because he was ragdolled by imperfect cell and vegeta was ragdolling the stronger cell.

[@YonolKom]

Vegeta and Trunks were at the Jr Cell level after entering for the second time. But Piccolo surpassed Android and even semi-cell because he entered the Chamber of Spirit and Time and before entering, he was 60 percent stronger than Vegeta. In fact, Piccolo, with weight, was much stronger than Vegeta and Goku. And Vegeta, when he entered, came out with a stronger semi-cell, so logically, Piccolo should be stronger because he was stronger than them, and because of Piccolo’s ability to increase his strength in the Namek Saga, he was stronger than the second form, Frieza. Then in Android Saga, he became close to the strength of Vegeta and Goku, a Super Saiyan. He became stronger than Androids, with the exception of 17-18. He became stronger than Frieza Piccolo is close to cell jr level

[@YonolKom]

Trunks was shocked by Piccolo's strength, even with his weight, so Piccolo became stronger in semi-cell when he came out, and even with the weight, he became much stronger than Vegeta and Trunks. But when Trans and Vegeta came out, they did not achieve much gain. Because Vegeta was training alone, Vegeta was not much stronger than Piccolo. He is Junior Cell level while Piccolo is close to Vegeta Super Saiyan level

[@albangarepresentAR]

Video suggestion : who is the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strongest in the vinyl force

[@gaiali453]

I remember after everyone was wished back to earth by Porugna in the freeza saga little Gohan challenges Vegeta on earth and gets defeated. Then Piccolo steps in to keep Vegeta from killing Gohan. I thought for sure I was going to see Piccolo vs Vegeta and wondered who would win back then.

[@cloudxz92]

Was that not Filler? It's funny how Vegeta was flying away and in the next Episode he was back like nothing happend. Vegeta at Earth in the Namek Arc was a lot stronger then Piccolo. Piccolo could not see anything that Frieza did. Vegeta saw it at least.

[@gaiali453]

@@cloudxz92 Yes!!!! Thank you. I forgot about that. Vegeta was able to see final form finger blast where everyone else didn't. So he pushes Gohan out of the way. 👍

[@blaketindle4703]

Dr Gero and Android 19 were definitely weaker than SSJ Trunks and Goku from the time they sparred!

[@justinarzola4584]

What evidence do you have?,I just assumed they would be stronger than Goku and Trunks at the time given those three years.

[@lavafighter3236]

Fine let's say your correct, then after both 19 absorbs Gokus energy and Gero absorbs both Piccolo and Vegetas energy they would indeed be stronger than the Goku and Trunks that's sparred.

[@weeaboo-warrior]

@@justinarzola4584there is no evidence Trunks got stronger and he was somewhat comparable to Goku and Vegeta who were vastly stronger than 19 and 20.

[@weeaboo-warrior]

@@lavafighter3236Nothing proves that.

[@Kenjitsuka]

Even further beyond with an excellent versus!!!

[@javier8015]

This is a fight were anime vs Manga matters. In the manga we don't see Piccolo fight with the cell Jr but in the anime we do. Piccolo is fighting 4 cell Jr while vegeta is only fighting one. This means that Piccolo had to spend a greater amount of energy in the cell Jr fight which could explain why vegeta had the power to affect cell in the final beam struggle with gohan. So I think both are at a similar power level during the cell games and the the series shows that in fighting prowess Piccolo is at a higher level then vegeta. I give Piccolo a slight 7-3 advantage against vegeta.

[@ayham190]

Piccolo Wins🏆

[@JackNapierKnows]

We never got a fight between them and we should feel robbed.

[@ethanpok1]

Definitely want to see a sparring match between orange piccolo and ultra ego. Or at least SSB evolved

[@zeaferjones1404]

I have a question for you. I think in two different cases a fighter from the sideline could have affected a huge fight but maybe I'm wrong. Do you think Tien could have stepped in during the Goku vs Piccolo fight and beat Piccolo once he was weakened? Also do you think Trunks could have stepped in against Cell once Gohan started getting Cocky and finish the job?

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

Tien: did u get the name of his attack Piccolo: ikr Big Bang Attack

[@Tony9804]

This video is riddled with so many misconceptions

[@wizzymanjr8935]

What I've learned is that piccolo trains way better than the saiyan's

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Depends what's faster to charge The Special Beam Cannon or The Final Flash

[@delta9240]

How is this debatable? Piccolo was weaker than Imperfect Cell, or at least barely stronger than Android 17, who also lost to Imperfect Cell. Super Vegeta SLAMS Semi Perfect Cell, better than his imperfect self. Wtf?

[@YonolKom]

I don't know why Vegeta has fans defending him for no reason. Piccolo was stronger than Vegeta after training the Spirit Chamber and time with evidence Well Piccolo saw the semi cell form so he knows how strong he is But he asked Goku, "Can I defeat a cell with this power?" He wouldn't have asked this question if he was weaker than Vegeta and Trunks You know that Piccolo gets stronger when he takes off the weights. But it was strange that Trunks was shocked by his level of strength when he came out even without taking off the weight. So he is definitely stronger than Trunks and Vegeta before entering again. Thirdly, Piccolo has a lot of potential to develop himself more than Goku and Vegeta, even though he was training alone, I am sure that he increased his strength more than Vegeta did. Remember, after three years of training, he became much stronger than Frieza. Don't forget that Piccolo was 60 percent stronger than Vegeta before entering a room Vegeta didn't improve much when he entered the room again He gave Junior's cell a tough fight. Piccolo is 85% higher than Vegeta's level

[@delta9240]

You're dumb. Not only is Super Vegeta stronger than Piccolo after fusing with Kami, but Trunks, who is about equal to Super Vegeta, can still hold off a Cell Jr. while Post-Chamber Piccolo can't. Cell literally says that "only vegeta and trunks can defend themselves, not even your own father," implying Piccolo is weaker than Trunks, who was the same as Vegeta when he fought SemiPerfect Cell. Vegeta used unecesary straining on his body which Goku already said was useless, but Piccolo still couldn't even match up to Trunks. No matter how you put it, Piccolo is weaker. I didn't watch the video at first, but even now, I'm still right. @@YonolKom

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Great video as always mkie! Gotta go with vegeta for the bigger role he had in the defeat of super perfect cell.

[@cibray89]

During the cell games Piccolo was still standing when Gohan went SSJ2 AND he was fighting two because he was protecting Goku so he’s definitely on Vegeta and a Trunks level if not stronger for being able to hold his own. Pretty sure he saved Yamcha and Tien too

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

Cell was able to take piccolos attack while in the beam struggle with gohan when vegeta made cell buckle.

[@asssassyn]

Piccolo, he's always been the better fighter.

[@Sg190th]

If you mean before Vegeta went the second time in the Chamber, it can vary.

[@thejamaicanlad5530]

I just realized that cell is a cicada

[@GojiGuy]

Even though im a big piccolo fan, i kind of assumed it was Vegeta. I forgot that Piccolo got a lot stronger after his 17 fight. I feel like evenly matched Piccolo has the edge.

[@robbstark2773]

Great vid! I would love to see you analyze who was stronger between Vegeta (rageboost after Cell killed Trunks) or Goku (Cell Games). Think it would be an interesting scenario.

[@XRoyalBlueGokuX]

I watched in the first hour and the first 20 minutes, I'm number one

[@AyhamYassen]

Piccolo Wins

[@famalam943]

Love a piccolo video

[@hrthrhs]

Considering Vegeta was able to unbalance Cell, while ALL the remaining Z-Fighters were not, must mean the Vegeta is significantly stronger. But Piccolo's regeneration is a significant advantage, so it wouldn't surprise me if in a fight Piccolo may just manage to beat Vegeta.

[@WikiHL]

9:45 I saw the english dub of the scene, and I think this manga translation put some of those dialogues in. In the spanish translations, which adapted straight from the japanese, Piccoro asks if Goku thinks *he* can defeat Cell, and he says "Haha no, I don't think I can." Goku already seemed to be weirdly not worried when Gohan and him came out of the Time Room, saying they already trained enough and to keep going wouldn't do much. So now, Goku says that he thinks he can't beat Cell, and everyone is even more confused. He can't beat Cell, he won't train anymore, what the hell is he thinking? And Vegeta, of course, is frustated because Goku found a much better way to surpass the ordinary super sayajin, even calling him a genius. I'm unsure if there really is a big difference between the Galick Ho and the Final Flash, other than the look and naming. Maybe it's just "a redundant energy attack name" like Moro said. Yeah, Piccoro in the manga is barely drawned, while everyone else get their own pannels and all. Wouldn't count the anime for anything, that even had Yamcha and Ten Shin Han fighting on par against some Cell Jrs. I doubt they the SSJ Full Power, and imagine they would've done the same as Goku and Gohan and just stay in the transformation the whole time. Piccoro got left behind by the time of the Cell Tournament, as any the rest of the earthlings. Unlike Vegeta, he couldn't do anything, even shouting "Dammit! Ugh...I feel so impotent for not being able to do anything to help him!" and then gets blasted away like anyone else except the barely standing (flying?) Vegeta.

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Depends Whats stronger the Final Flash or Light Grenade

[@westonnwaimo4002]

That would be a cool beam struggle

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

​@@westonnwaimo4002yeah I did it in Raging Blast 2

[@danielvereb4579]

I loved the video and absolutely agree on every point. Except one. Vegeta on Namek vs Final Form Frieza, compared to Piccolo. Vegeta was trash. He was not anywhere near Piccolo. He claims to be but then, he would not have backed off on Earth when Piccolo stepped in between him and Gohan. If he was that much more powerful, he would have not cared about Piccolo but he backed off.

[@FalloutJack]

"Oh yeah, that's right. We never actually fought." The problem with this fight is that it's very complicated. Vegeta maxed himself out as much as possible before the Cell Games, and although Piccolo probably did the same, he knows that Vegeta thinks about combat and destroying his opponents nearly all the time. You see, back when Vegeta showed off his Super Saiyan power for the first time, Piccolo acknowledged that although the Saiyan was often full of himself, he was a combat expert who knew what he was doing in a fight, nine-tenths off the time. Of course, him knowing that gives Piccolo the knowledge advantage to use his level head against Vegeta. The PROBLEM is that while Piccolo could easily trick Vegeta like he did Android 17, Vegeta would ultimately do the same thing and tank the shot before retaliating. No, if Piccolo didn't have something really good stashed away to down Vegeta, I couldn't see him winning against his Super Saiyan form.

[@shikaotsu7194]

I think Grade 2 is a 25% increase, Grade 3 is a 40-50% increase, and Grade 4 (mastered) is the same as Grade 3 without drawbacks, basically a 62.5-75x boost from base and Grade 5 (Super Saiyan 2) is actually around 125-150x base or 2x Grade 4 which makes Super Saiyan 3 a 450-600x multiplier, and it sounds insane but if you do the math then it sort of makes sense, if we are to say Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta are all close as Super Saiyan 2 and they fought Buu at the same time, I don't think they'd be able to compete with Buu as well, even with a 4 on 1 with Piccolo there but if Super Saiyan 3 is over 400x then it explains why Goten and Trunks (arguably equal to or slightly weaker than Gohan in Super Saiyan) when fused in base is weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Goku but in Super Saiyan is noticeably close to Goku in power to where he could probably have beaten Buu (before Super Buu) by themselves..

[@Thromaz]

I think we need to drop the guide books almost entirely... They really clash with the narrative... It comes of in the series like grade 2 is super saiyajin on top of super saiyajin, grade 3 is another one on top of that (at the cost of everything except power) and then grade 4 like we see is just don't transform but use the latent energy as a buff to a atats... I do think the 500x multplier starts to look realistic narratively but that we're also looking at 50x 50x for grade 2 etc...

[@DigitalWraith]

On the subject of [VEGETA'S TECHNIQUE] When did Boo learn it from Vegeta? He never used that attack on Boo when they fought.

[@ghostwriter1440]

Do you think that trunks or vegeta in super sayin grade 3 could have damaged semi perfect cell enough to force him to revert to his imperfect form in a similar fashion to super sayin 2 Gohan against perfect cell?

[@farleydeonta]

Piccolo couldn’t do anything with past 1st stage cell …. Super vegeta handled 2nd form easily and tore off half off perfects torso with final flash … vegeta mid diff (Edit ) I’m aware pic trained but so did vegeta again before cell games

[@SINdaBlock411]

I also believe that Nail was slightly weaker than Recoome, Burter and Jeice, but has the healing factor, is more intelligent and gifted as a fighter and of course has far more to protect, that would cancel out whatever slight disadvantage in powerlevel he may have ... Ginyu 1-shots him though

[@eranshachar9954]

Great analysis Mike. I agree Piccoro Jr. was most likely to win because of his fusion with Kami. I am currently doing a BP list for fun on the Androids-Cell arc and this is no fun. The previous sagas were not too much difficult to power scale but this one is giving me a headache. Now I have to re-evaluate Bejita's power. Because I originally thought because of watching the anime without reading the manga, that Bejita trained in x450 G but here you are telling me he didn't pass the x300 G in the manga which makes it a different calculation. Here is my calculation- Kakarrot was 15,000 when he began his gravity training. He went up to a BP of 90,000 (x6 boost) so if Bejita trained in x300 G it's (x18 boost) and not (x27 boost) like I thought. Urgh...

[@thisnewnamesystemisdumb]

🤦‍♂️

[@skiburc2252]

Why are you saying piccolo Jr and bejita

[@eranshachar9954]

@@skiburc2252 I say Piccoro not Piccolo and Bejita because these are the original Japanese names. The American anime ruined many names including of these guys. What I write is the right way.

[@skiburc2252]

@@eranshachar9954 🤓🤓

[@Chronoflation]

I mean, let's be real, ever since the Freeza battle, Piccolo and Vegeta were the real Rivals. Vegeta being the strongest vs 1st Form, Piccolo getting his Nail fusion to be the strongest vs 2nd form, Vegeta zenkai to take on Final form (though Zenkai maybe based on 3rd form Freeza due to the timing of when he was healed), Piccolo getting boosted by Gohan and Krillin to buy time against Freeza, Vegeta being stronger vs the androids, Piccolo getting ahead after fusing with Kami, Vegeta pulling ahead after his first time chamber visit, Piccolo seeming to pull back ahead again based on Vegeta's reaction, and then Vegeta pulling barely back ahead based on him having a bit less damage after fighting the Cell Jr's, though they were both still standing, and his final rage boost vs Super Perfect giving him a likely clean victory over Piccolo finally at the end of the saga

[@ohhellwhereami2574]

Yeah they even sit down together In movies

[@IcZ2013]

The answer is Vegeta. Vegeta: What were you doing in there, taking a nap? 😈

[@Thromaz]

Vegeta was lying. Trunks dropped his jaw and as soon as vegeta closed the door he clenched his first and grit his teeth

[@patrickfuller6897]

​@@Thromazyeah but vegeta didnt clench his fist and grit his teeth because of piccolo, he started talking about how he was going to surpass goku when he did that.

[@Thromaz]

He certainly did because of Piccolo. He borderline cried openly earlier in the ark and monologued to himself "aren't you sick of all these people surpassing the super saiyajin kakarot?" Gokuu having free real estate in vegetas head doesn't say anything.... Besides the whole thing isn't even in the manga

[@patrickfuller6897]

@@Thromaz you might want to rewatch that scene because it wasn't about piccolo, but i have a feeling we'll have to agree to disagree. He certainly was frustrated that people were surpassing the super saiyan earlier in the arc, but I don't see how that applies here considering this is after they trained in the time chamber.

[@Thromaz]

So I did rewatch the scene Dragon ball kai episode 85 and then I checked the Japanese kanzenban 27 before I posted my first comment. Not in the manga at all. He was definitely frustrated with piccolo, there's no reason that trunks would be literally quivering and vegeta would unfazed

[@ghoztly7099]

Both of their win conditions would be special beam cannon or final flash but neither could hit it TBH. Piccolo wins 6/10 times IMO. Why? Well the TLDR is he has no ki/transformation issues, insane durability paired with regeneration and a multitude of techniques, tons of strong ki waves that are extremely fast as well as ones he can fire from his mouth. He also has giant form, and his long limbs. Both their techniques take a long time to gather energy for, although we have seen instances where the special beam cannon was launched pretty quickly. In any case, neither are just going to stand there and try to dodge or tank it. Durability goes to Piccolo. I don't think I need to explain why. Piccolo also has WAY more techniques. He can fire beams from his mouth, has long limbs, a giant form which Vegeta no longer has access to, and also has several different ki attacks that fire off far quicker than any of Vegeta's. He also has multi-form, and likely solar flare too. If Goku and krillin can use it, so he can he, just never actually needed to. Vegeta might have a marginally higher power level, but I just can't see him finishing Piccolo off. Piccolo outlasts, and defeats him IMO.

[@DJAmovement]

Will DragonBall volume 2 review be a thing here?

[@chimericalical]

Why do people make a big deal about Vegeta never fighting Piccolo? Of the main cast Vegeta has only fought Yajirobe, Krillen, Goku, and Gohan. Yamcha, Tien, and Chaotsu we’re all present when Vegeta showed up and none of them fought Vegeta.