Cell Games Piccolo Vs Super Vegeta: Who Would Win?

Cell Games Piccolo Vs Super Vegeta: Who Would Win? ‪@LSMMIKE‬ discusses that in this Dragon Ball Z video featuring the DBZ anime and manga!
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[@andrewgarfield9898]

The 2 characters who’ve never fought even once in the show. Now that I think about it so many characters have not fought Vegeta

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Because he's Goku's rival, and funny enough they voice by the same guy in the dub

[@EndoScorpion]

@@slainmyth5865 Vegeta and Piccolo are both voiced by Chris Sabat in the Funimation English dub.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD Which is funny because it was Gohan who beat Vegeta, after Vegeta beat Goku. It's also funny that Goku kept Vegeta alive so he could one day have a rematch and win, but once Goku learnt of Frieza, he literally didn't give a crap about fighting Vegeta any more. So the whole rivalry was only in Vegeta's head since Vegeta left Earth.

[@revalier3670]

@@slainmyth5865 Why would you even type this comment? A simple Google search would have told you Vegeta and Piccolo are voiced by the same person in the DUB. "Pretty sure they aren't though" Pretty sure of what? Your poor ability to do some simple research?

[@denkerbosu3551]

​@@revalier3670 pretty sure of his own memory, not everyone resorts to a corporation to do all the work for them. You can just correct him and be done with it

[@BlazedApples]

What if Piccolo used Clothes Beam to give Vegeta a very heavy outfit to slow him down?

[@DarthFhenix55]

We already saw weight not being that important in fights like against Pui Pui. Vegeta would probably be stunned but that wouldn't be enough to stop him.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@DarthFhenix55 The Pui Pui thing meant nothing because it was the same gravity as the saiyan homeworld. So it was a normal gravity level for saiyans. If the weight is high enough to where Vegeta isn't used to it, then it will slow him down significantly.

[@ojpickle5923]

​@@DarthFhenix55Whis made a suit that Vegeta struggled to lift. PIccolo could probably make a suit that cell saga Vegeta would never be able to lift. It's a shame he never thought about doing that

[@ohhellwhereami2574]

​@@ojpickle5923bro because his ki would easily tear it apart

[@ojpickle5923]

​@@ohhellwhereami2574by the time he rips apart the suit, piccolo could have blasted him

[@jason15212]

The part in the anime where piccolo tien and yamcha work together to help out Goku was always my favorite moment of that cell jr fight. Yamcha and Tien powering up to protect Goku in a way that we haven’t seen Goku be vulnerable in a long time.

[@OurKindofEntertainment]

I always looked at Piccolo's trip into the Time Chamber as training that wasn't just about getting stronger. His training was also about becoming more in tune with himself. What do I mean by that? Well, I'm referring to Kamiccolo becoming his own being. I think Piccolo, Kami & Nail's triple fusion was more fine tuned after that year of training which helped boost Piccolo's overall power/skill. In the anime, we saw Piccolo using the multi-form to train against himself. Heck IMO that is a VERY effective form of training because what better way to identify your own strengths and weaknesses in order to improve? If memory serves, I believe he also did this while training for the Saiyan invasion as well as a scene in the Garlic Jr. Saga. Not to mention, Piccolo had sensed the power of Super Vegeta/Ultra Trunks/Perfect Cell (well as much power as he exerted up to that point) so he had an idea of how powerful he had to become in order to compete with those around him. A lot of sources stated that Vegeta & Trunks' second solo trips into the chamber made them stronger BUT not as massively as their boosts after their first trip inside. I'd place Kamiccolo in the same realm of power as Grade 2 Super Saiyans, but not at the strength of Grade 3 (ultra) & Grade 4 (full power). Ironically enough, it feels like Piccolo could compete with the post-time chamber Saiyans like he could earlier in the saga after the 3 years of training. Ya know how Piccolo was in the same realm of power as pre-time chamber Super Saiyans!

[@Shadow.24772]

aha...and that's why when the Cell Jr.s attacked everyone, Cell only mentions Vegeta and Trunks as being able to hold their own...riiiight~

[@ultimateyagerman]

Nah lol Piccolo has never been in the same league as the Saiyans after Rosat

[@almightyrose7_743]

I agree w everything you said this is well said an thought out !

[@wolvesrevenge866]

​@@ultimateyagermanyet piccolo actually fought off a cell Jr and even Vegeta was pissed when he went into the time chamber meaning piccolo is stronger than himself or comparable

[@gowthamb8096]

I always thought Piccolo was in the same league as Vegeta & Future Trunks during the Cell Games. All 3 were all comparative to each other. Even Cell acknowledged those 3 after Goku forfeited as the 3 who would step up to fight him before Gohan.

[@danielsilva-ds2u]

But cell says the only people that can survive the cell juniors are vegeta and trunks.

[@BM-sg1sl]

@@danielsilva-ds2uyeah but there were 2 instances where trunks was shocked at piccolos power post ROST

[@danielsilva-ds2u]

@BM-sg1sl right but then when that was put to the test, cell says only trunks and vegeta can fight back. He didn't say piccolo could. On the field, piccolo wasn't as strong as trunks lead you to believe. I think what's impressive about piccolo ( aside from the kami fusion) is how strong he can get in general. Saiyans need those multipliers. Pre android, vegetas training took his base from 2ish million to 5 or 6ish million. Piccolo went from a little over 1 million to idk, however strong to beat android 20. I'm not sure how strong android 20 is, but I assume vegeta would have to be near full power ssj to beat him. Piccolo says that 20 would have beat vegeta bc 19 took too much energy. So what I think trunks was impressed by is how much piccolo can increase his strength without multipliers. And when trunks in base form felt piccolos strength he was complementing him on that feat. But I'm positive that if trunks went ssj grade 2 he would be considerably stronger than piccolo. My reason for believing is because cell mentions only vegeta and trunks can fight back. So it doesn't really matter how impressed trunks was with piccolo post ROSAT, the evidence in battle proves otherwise.

[@justinarzola4584]

I think Vegeta and Trunks were briefly stronger than him when they fought cell( keep in mind piccolo was healing after imperfect cell blasted him) until piccolo went inside the chamber for the ten days,then they should be equal.

[@theccarbiter]

He was as strong as them as ss but not as strong as grade 2, that’s irrelevant though because they never really use grade 2 after second form cell

[@blaketindle4703]

It’d be a very close fight but if they fought right after Piccolo finished his training, I believe Piccolo would win. If they fought after Vegeta trained a second time in the chamber, Vegeta wins.

[@TigerShark_With_thigh_in_mouth]

That is how dragon ball z works. Who ever got the latest buff is the best. But goku will always plot armor his way above them.

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Vegeta Cell Games beats Piccolo Cell Games, but Piccolo Cell Games probably beats Super Vegeta

[@Cheapstall]

Yeah but nooo

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

​​@@Cheapstall But Yeah, take off Kaio-Ken off your pfp & name you don't deserve it after saying that

[@Cheapstall]

@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD I’m mad at myself for thinking you might actually argue a point

[@zaylendaniels]

Didn’t Vegeta do better against the cell juniors than anybody else though?

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

@@zaylendaniels The video is talking about the Vegeta who fought cell not the cell jrs

[@nicholaskevinwright8214]

If vegeta trained with trunks instead of solo. Really could of made a difference, I'm surprised it was mentioned as a possible what if factor

[@mike0133]

Because it is a comparison based on what we saw and not a "what if".

[@EndoScorpion]

Piccolo would've been a far greater mentor to Trunks. Even if Vegeta and Trunks sparred and got stronger from it, Vegeta wouldn't be interested in teaching or mentoring Trunks in any way, and it was hinder them both still.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Love your videos Mike! You always make my day better!🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤

[@lavuntecolquitt]

You ALWAYS hittin these my good bro. Great concept and breakdown

[@afroman5160]

I agree with this Cell Games Piccolo beats Super Vegeta. But Cell games Vegeta beats Cell games Piccolo.

[@DSan-kl2yc]

I find it hard to believe. Trunks was surprised about everything in that page. Vegeta didn't get monumentally powerful the second time. And piccolo was not mentioned, he was being pushed back, in the cell jr fight in the small page we see.

[@keljerel]

I had to pop some popcorn for this one. Two of my favorite characters in Dragon Ball going head-to-head.

[@mike_datzmag1c21]

19:45 @Vegeta’s Technique” 😂😂 I always laughed when he does that…when situation is dire, fire off a bunch of Ki blasts…usually not effective lol

[@ianhadlock2405]

Your videos like these are just fantastic thanks for being numbah 1

[@savemgs]

What if. The 10 days before the Cell games. Piccolo and Vegeta went into the Time Chamber together?

[@rayblair3933]

Great i been waiting on this video i thought you were never gonna do it

[@mike0133]

Cell game's Vegeta > Cell game's Piccolo > Super Vegeta. After the union with Kami he started from a stronger power than Ssj Vegeta. In my opinion a fight between Super Vegeta before the Cell game VS Cell game's Piccolo, wouldn't be so easy for Piccolo. In my opinion the gap between the first Super Vegeta and the one we saw at the Cell game, wasn't so huge, Cell game's Piccolo is in the middle-more tending towards Cell game's Vegeta(and Trunks).

[@WhaleFuego]

This a really good one I never thought of this

[@alyj8606]

Thanks for the fun videos :)

[@Kenjitsuka]

Even further beyond with an excellent versus!!!

[@Thromaz]

Mike is pumping these out quicker than Harold

[@420TruthSeeker420]

Piccolo takes on multiple cell jrs while vegeta could only handle one in the anime.

[@kievonJSmoothSoul]

this is a good one. because when Piccolo came out the time chamber Trunks was kinda scared of him.

[@docstr8nine778]

" Vegeta's technique" i love that gag

[@lonewolfnomadic3403]

because they didn't really ever fight, Cell jr is a good measure power beetwen them. Cell said this to Gohan : "only Vegeta and Trunks that can match Cell jr, even Goku who exhausted can't match it"

[@user-wc5wu4yp5r]

First, a small difference in strength can make you much stronger than your opponent. Zarbon was 91.7% Vegeta's level, but Vegeta killed him easily. Secondly, Cell's words were not relevant, he was just wrong, like Gohan Thirdly, Piccolo's cell is able to replace Junior's cell, so this makes it close to Vegeta's level at least. I think it is 85% of Vegeta's level or more, while Junior's cell is 92.8% of Vegeta's level.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Great video as always mkie! Gotta go with vegeta for the bigger role he had in the defeat of super perfect cell.

[@famalam943]

Love a piccolo video

[@w0lfguy77]

“VEGETA’S TECHNIQUE” 😂😂

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

"RIP Mace he went out the windu"

[@albangarepresentAR]

Video suggestion : who is the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strongest in the vinyl force

[@BM-sg1sl]

Thank you for putting this debate to bed. This debate has been going on for YEARS.

[@thebreakerofwalls9036]

22:35 It's MR. Perfecter Cell! (Thanks Yamcha! Lol)

[@genzowakabayashi2766]

You've brought up very important point that people simply forgot about being that Piccolo actually trained after Kami Fusion and some people make a video or thumbnail with statment "Semi-Perfect Cell level?" when they talk about End DBZ Piccolo. That shouldn't be even a discussion.

[@TrappyJenkins]

Weird that vegeta and piccolo never fought. They'd probably train well together

[@DJAmovement]

Will DragonBall volume 2 review be a thing here?

[@i360fantasy7]

Can you please do a video on who would win in a fight between recoome or nail? Recoome was bodying an over 30,000 power level vegeta and nail is stated to be at 42,000. I think that would be interesting!

[@mike0133]

Recoome was stated to be 40.000 while Nail 42.000. Just Google it "Dragonball official power levels". I think that guides about power levels comes from Dainzeshuu, i am not sure, but it's pretty accurate until the Frieza saga.

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Vegeta was like at 35,000, Recoome is like 42-45,000

[@Thromaz]

I'd like to see that.... I think I know the answer but I'd like to see that

[@treztrigga]

They did fight once inside Buuhan but Piccole was a clone

[@1nfamous_DJP_Gaming]

It’s one of those battles that can go either way , both Piccolo & Vegeta are very strategic, so it’ll just come down to who can land the finishing blow first

[@EndoScorpion]

Vegeta's strategy is about avoiding fights with people he knows he can't win against. His ego still gets the better of him though, and he ends up challenging people he can't beat. His life has been about fighting fights he can win easily. He's never been properly challenged until Goku. Piccolo is a proper martial artist and a true genius fighter.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@Bejitajap Again, it was a strategy to avoid a fight, by bluffing and causing 20 to flee. It actually was dumb because it led Gero to retreat in order to revive 17&18. When it comes to actual fighting Vegeta relies heavily on overpowering his opponent, and/or just blasting away. He's never seen or known to fight strategically, being able to stand up to a stronger opponent - like how Goku was able to stand up to Frieza and Vegeta for so long.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@Bejitajap Piccolo was right there ready to fight 20. He was about to fight 19 & 20 anyway before Vegeta turned up, so no, Vegeta's bluff didn't prevent Vegeta from getting wrecked. It just caused 20 to flee and resort to 17&18. But if Piccolo had taken out 20 he would've prevented that. Vegeta purposely let 19 drain him so that he could show off his SSJ power. He didn't need to do that, and shouldn't have done that if he was planning to take on 20 as well and end them both. It was pure ego-driven, and that's the kind of fighter Vegeta is. It's always about his ego. That's not an opinion. It's fact. And it's the reason for most of the conflict in Z anyway. Give me an example of where Vegeta uses this supposed "genius" strategies in order to take on and beat an opponent stronger than him - or even just push said opponent to their limits, like how Goku pushed Vegeta and Frieza. Because I don't remember one. Vegeta either dominates or gets dominated (or outsmarted and worn down like in the Saiyan Saga). I can point to several examples of where Vegeta has lost to weaker/equal opponents, purely because he let his ego dictate how the fight went. Even when he was winning his thick-headed ego cuased him to lose. Also, by Vegeta's own admittion he'd never had to try before Goku. Because he only picked fights with people he knew he could completely dominate. Even on Namek he only picked on weaker opponents. Avoided stronger ones... until his ego got the better of him and he challenged them anyway and got wrecked. Because he goes in guns blazing and then ends up paying the price for it and put in his place. Vegeta fans are the same as Vegeta: Driven by ego, can't handle that others don't share their opinions, and think their massively biased opinion is fact.

[@EndoScorpion]

​@@Bejitajap The very first thing I said in my first comment was "Vegeta's strategy is about avoiding fights with people he knows he can't win against." The things you listed were just evidence to support that. He doesn't fight smart while in a fight. His smarts are about which fights he picks. But even then he faulters. A lot. Because of his ego. I never said he was a "thoughtless brute" either. I pointed out his ego leads him to make some stupid decisions, and causes him to lose wins he'd would've otherwise won. But his fighting style is very much to overpower/dominate his opponents, not to outlast or outsmart them. That's not how he rolls. Goku fought smart and strategically against Vegeta to the point where Vegeta lost his composture and thought he needed to resort to Oozaru. He was blinded by his ego and frustration that he was struggling so much against a low class. But the Oozaru transformation was his biggest mistake here. Not only did it use up a lot of his power, the fake moon drew Gohan's attention and brought him and Krillin back into the fight. Which led to Vegeta losing. And yes, he did lose. Drop your ego/fan-gasm over Vegeta for a second. He lost that fight in the end and retreated. Krillin was the last man standing and was literally about to finish him off before Goku stopped him.

[@shaneg9081]

There are only two times that Piccolo wins clean in DBZ. After merging with Nail, and after merging with Kami. And both times, Vegeta gets a come up very shortly after.

[@shilohwehrmacht2947]

Don't forget special beam cannon is a 5 times multiplier its the strongest beam I'm aware of actually

[@zabustifu]

11:00 Piccolo wanted to show off how hard he's trained in the anime, somehow forgetting he can fix his clothes with his magic.

[@donovanbradford8231]

Myself I agree it depends if it's after Piccolo's first time on the Hyperbolic Time Chamber then yes he wins but if it's Cell Games Vegeta I'm giving Vegeta the edge.

[@jadenhall7938]

Bro Piccolo could not regenerate like Perfect Cell could. If Piccolo got hit with the Final Flash, he would be dead. The fact that Vegeta was able to do that to Perfect Cell tells you who would win when it comes to Vegeta when he first came out the chamber vs when Piccolo came out the chamber

[@selfimprovement5873]

I never understood how people could have discussions like these; asking if a dragon Ball character can beat another dragon ball character is likes asking if a "2 is superior to 5?" It's just a numbers game, no fancy techniques will ever be able to close the gap unless it increases the power level.

[@robbstark2773]

Great vid! I would love to see you analyze who was stronger between Vegeta (rageboost after Cell killed Trunks) or Goku (Cell Games). Think it would be an interesting scenario.

[@BelartWright]

Fantastic vid, Mike! As always, I mostly agree with your conclusions. It's almost like you're reading my thoughts. One difference is, I would give a bigger advantage to Cell Games Vegeta though. I think, at most, Piccolo would likely be 80% of that Vegeta. I'd put him at 60% or 70% myself. Saiyan biology, the ascended forms, and the 2nd trip into the RoSaT created a gap between Piccolo and Vegeta that lasted into the Buu saga and beyond. I 100% agree that he's stronger than Super Vegeta (the one who fought Semi-Perfect Cell). I never understood why people seem obsessed with keeping him at this level when the story is repeatedly showing us that he's stronger than that.

[@ethanpok1]

Definitely want to see a sparring match between orange piccolo and ultra ego. Or at least SSB evolved

[@BigHeadClan]

The Galic gun is already stronger than the Kamehameha and the Final Flash is massively more potent by comparison, although its cannon is debatable it was more effective against Jiren than even Goku's spirit bomb which was amped by all the members of his team. People are heavily underestimating just how powerful the Final Flash is, I think there was an interview with Toriyama around the time who also said that Super Vegeta's Final Flash was the single strongest attack in the arc. Its the only time we Cell panic and try to avoid the attack and very likely would have killed him in that instant if it was a direct hit, personally I think Cell games Piccolo edges out Super Vegeta (Pre Cell games) but the margins of power between the two aren't all that great. I think Vegeta going in solo to the HBTC was a mistake and he severely limited the amount of power he was able to gain. Had he gone in with Trunks or Piccolo to train I suspect he would have been on par with Goku in terms of power after the second round of training, but end of Cell game Vegeta is a decent amount stronger but not massively ahead of Piccolo at this point.

[@Kenjitsuka]

Video idea: Nail versus the Ginyu Force minus Ginyu himself

[@zeaferjones1404]

I have a question for you. I think in two different cases a fighter from the sideline could have affected a huge fight but maybe I'm wrong. Do you think Tien could have stepped in during the Goku vs Piccolo fight and beat Piccolo once he was weakened? Also do you think Trunks could have stepped in against Cell once Gohan started getting Cocky and finish the job?

[@XRoyalBlueGokuX]

I watched in the first hour and the first 20 minutes, I'm number one

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Depends what's faster to charge The Special Beam Cannon or The Final Flash

[@lostintheark5728]

Who wins, us fans and who truly loses Chris Sabat's voice, lmao. Honestly I'm the hugest Piccolo fan, but Zenkai's are crazy, bro Vegeta damn near then trained of course he's stronger unless Piccolo gains massive power boosts thanks to being complete with Kami.

[@jeskerjames3260]

I swear I remember hearing somewhere years ago that Cell Games Piccolo was equal to Semi-Perfect Cell. I want to say it was Toriyama interview and it may be the same one where it was said that Supreme Kai was equal to Cell Games Super Saiyan Full Power Goku. But I would like to think that Piccolo was in the same tier as Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell Games, so that he was at least keeping pace with the Saiyans. Still though I think Vegeta and Trunks are stronger regardless, it just comes down to how much stronger. I would like to think the gap wasn't massive though.

[@isaaccuevas1717]

When piccolo left the time chamber,we was surprised on how strong piccolo became even sweating,and when battling the cell jr,piccolo was preforming better then both trunks and vegeta, actually knocking them to the ground.and vegeta is just stupid when it comes to battles,his pride gets the better of him and thinks he could never lose.piccolo being a skilled warrior would take advantage of that

[@RemoteEditz600]

Uh no piccolo wasn’t doing better then vegeta and trunks cell stated the only ones holding they’re own against the cell juniors was vegeta and trunks.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

@@RemoteEditz600 Cell can state whatever he wants. The anime clearly shows Piccolo holding his own against several Jrs. If we're talking manga, then there's hardly anything to go by.

[@RemoteEditz600]

@@ShadeSlayer1911 wrong piccolo wasn’t doing anything damage to the cell junior he was fighting he was just dodging. Vegeta final flash from when he first fought perfect cell would’ve killed him if he didn’t move out the way. Arkrai toriyama even stated that the final flash was the strongest blast in the hole arc

[@nanofate8662]

@@ShadeSlayer1911 He was still standing alongside them when SSJ2 Gohan appeared. Which is better than nothing cause he looked in no worse wear than either Trunks or Vegeta.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

@@RemoteEditz600 I don't believe statements. Toriyama could state that Harry Potter no diffs Zamasu. Would you believe that? I believe feats, and I mean concrete feats. This means a hypothetical of "what if the Final Flash hit Cell head on?" doesn't fly with me. Piccolo showed himself being able to handle the Jrs better than Vegeta. Even if he couldn't deal serious damage to them, neither could Vegeta. And since DB runs off of a singular stat for the most part, Piccolo clearly has the higher PL and is therefore stronger than Vegeta.

[@jermaineslaughter2641]

When is the Manga or anime are going to have these two actually fight already ?

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

Tien: did u get the name of his attack Piccolo: ikr Big Bang Attack

[@mr.amazing6726]

I've always wondered if piccolo would have gotten a bigger boost if nail was at full power when they fused somehow...or if kami was at his peak due to a wish...

[@jordannichols8338]

Who would win? Super Android 13 vs Android 16?

[@shiki494]

Really nice question. I'll give it to Super Android 13

[@cywh1711]

I think Android 13.

[@kievonJSmoothSoul]

His Super Form is basically Perfect Cell. but regular 13 is probably around 16 level.

[@jordannichols8338]

@@kievonJSmoothSoul No. regular 13 was fighting on par more or less with regular SSj1 Goku. None of the Z fighters have been to the room of spirit and time yet in this movie as well.

[@blaketindle4703]

Dr Gero and Android 19 were definitely weaker than SSJ Trunks and Goku from the time they sparred!

[@justinarzola4584]

What evidence do you have?,I just assumed they would be stronger than Goku and Trunks at the time given those three years.

[@lavafighter3236]

Fine let's say your correct, then after both 19 absorbs Gokus energy and Gero absorbs both Piccolo and Vegetas energy they would indeed be stronger than the Goku and Trunks that's sparred.

[@weeaboo-warrior]

@@justinarzola4584there is no evidence Trunks got stronger and he was somewhat comparable to Goku and Vegeta who were vastly stronger than 19 and 20.

[@weeaboo-warrior]

@@lavafighter3236Nothing proves that.

[@ghostwriter1440]

Do you think that trunks or vegeta in super sayin grade 3 could have damaged semi perfect cell enough to force him to revert to his imperfect form in a similar fashion to super sayin 2 Gohan against perfect cell?

[@Sg190th]

If you mean before Vegeta went the second time in the Chamber, it can vary.

[@Grownupbobbyhill]

I always liked Nail

[@giangargo669]

With the evidence that you bring I must agree with you however this means there is kind of a plot hole in the buu saga, at the end of cell's saga piccolo should be in the realm of a suppressed non super cell, now assuming that piccolo never stops training at the start of the buu saga he should be at least at the level of a perfect cell (non super), the fact that dabura and babidi don't even consider him strong would be kinda crazy, it could be cool to compare buu saga piccolo to dabura for a future video

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

I honestly I would love to have gotten a manga or anime special or King Cold and Mecha Frieza with their army against Super Saiyan Goku and the z fighters in earth

[@bigmanjames7402]

Well since trunks is weaker than goku it might of been a quicker fight, not much to show

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

​@@bigmanjames7402Goku doesn't go all out at first, and would give Frieza and chance to leave

[@WikiHL]

9:45 I saw the english dub of the scene, and I think this manga translation put some of those dialogues in. In the spanish translations, which adapted straight from the japanese, Piccoro asks if Goku thinks *he* can defeat Cell, and he says "Haha no, I don't think I can." Goku already seemed to be weirdly not worried when Gohan and him came out of the Time Room, saying they already trained enough and to keep going wouldn't do much. So now, Goku says that he thinks he can't beat Cell, and everyone is even more confused. He can't beat Cell, he won't train anymore, what the hell is he thinking? And Vegeta, of course, is frustated because Goku found a much better way to surpass the ordinary super sayajin, even calling him a genius. I'm unsure if there really is a big difference between the Galick Ho and the Final Flash, other than the look and naming. Maybe it's just "a redundant energy attack name" like Moro said. Yeah, Piccoro in the manga is barely drawned, while everyone else get their own pannels and all. Wouldn't count the anime for anything, that even had Yamcha and Ten Shin Han fighting on par against some Cell Jrs. I doubt they the SSJ Full Power, and imagine they would've done the same as Goku and Gohan and just stay in the transformation the whole time. Piccoro got left behind by the time of the Cell Tournament, as any the rest of the earthlings. Unlike Vegeta, he couldn't do anything, even shouting "Dammit! Ugh...I feel so impotent for not being able to do anything to help him!" and then gets blasted away like anyone else except the barely standing (flying?) Vegeta.

[@VergilWergil]

The one thing that away stands out to me is when piccolo comes out of the chamber Vegeta basically still calls him weak by saying “what were you doing in there? Taking a nap?”

[@ChicagoScorpion]

He was just talking shit. Trunks who was almost as strong as Vegeta was amazed by how strong Piccolo became.

[@NickMorrison78]

The same Vegeta who thought he could defeat final form Frieza, and got humbled

[@BM-sg1sl]

@@NickMorrison78yep!

[@justinarzola4584]

Vegeta was just being jealous,he knew piccolo caught up to him.

[@thisnewnamesystemisdumb]

Because piccolo fused with kami and surpassed everyone, vegeta expected him to have way more gains.

[@asssassyn]

Piccolo, he's always been the better fighter.

[@itsallaboutMLewis]

Super Vegeta by a long shot. Cell wasn’t even worried about Piccolo and other Z fighters when they tried to stop him during the beam crash with him and gohan. But when Vegeta stepped Cell was sweating

[@eranshachar9954]

Great analysis Mike. I agree Piccoro Jr. was most likely to win because of his fusion with Kami. I am currently doing a BP list for fun on the Androids-Cell arc and this is no fun. The previous sagas were not too much difficult to power scale but this one is giving me a headache. Now I have to re-evaluate Bejita's power. Because I originally thought because of watching the anime without reading the manga, that Bejita trained in x450 G but here you are telling me he didn't pass the x300 G in the manga which makes it a different calculation. Here is my calculation- Kakarrot was 15,000 when he began his gravity training. He went up to a BP of 90,000 (x6 boost) so if Bejita trained in x300 G it's (x18 boost) and not (x27 boost) like I thought. Urgh...

[@thisnewnamesystemisdumb]

🤦‍♂️

[@skiburc2252]

Why are you saying piccolo Jr and bejita

[@eranshachar9954]

@@skiburc2252 I say Piccoro not Piccolo and Bejita because these are the original Japanese names. The American anime ruined many names including of these guys. What I write is the right way.

[@skiburc2252]

@@eranshachar9954 🤓🤓

[@Keiyon95]

I'm kinda curious if Vegeta would have faired better had he not used up a lot of his SSJ energy before the fight

[@JackNapierKnows]

We never got a fight between them and we should feel robbed.

[@GrubKiller436]

The anime and the manga were very different. In the anime, Piccolo was doing well against the Cell Jrs. To the point he looked better than even Trunks and Vegeta. This was filler however, and in the manga, this never happened. In the manga, Vegeta and Trunks were as strong as the Cell Jrs.

[@user-wc5wu4yp5r]

I think it's the same level as Traction Cell, but Piccolo will definitely be close to their level, 80-90% Vegeta's level. After seven years of training in Bu Saga, Piccolo could defeat Cell jr easily

[@thejamaicanlad5530]

I just realized that cell is a cicada

[@Draconianoverlord55]

It would be pretty close

[@javier8015]

This is a fight were anime vs Manga matters. In the manga we don't see Piccolo fight with the cell Jr but in the anime we do. Piccolo is fighting 4 cell Jr while vegeta is only fighting one. This means that Piccolo had to spend a greater amount of energy in the cell Jr fight which could explain why vegeta had the power to affect cell in the final beam struggle with gohan. So I think both are at a similar power level during the cell games and the the series shows that in fighting prowess Piccolo is at a higher level then vegeta. I give Piccolo a slight 7-3 advantage against vegeta.

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

Cell was able to take piccolos attack while in the beam struggle with gohan when vegeta made cell buckle.

[@SamsarasArt]

Like a lot of these hypothetical battles, the power gap between Piccolo and Vegeta at this point would be negligible. Those two and Trunks are the only ones holding their own against the Cell Jrs which is why I say this. Another reason I say this is Trunks's reaction when Piccolo emerged from the time chamber; it tells us that he's gained a significant power boost. So I'm comfortable with saying Piccolo is comparable to Vegeta. I'll say Piccolo due to his being able to regenerate, granted it isn't a sure thing. Yes it means he can recover from otherwise fatal wounds but the energy consumption to regenerate is massive.

[@danielsilva-ds2u]

Cell only says only trunks and vegeta are fighting back not piccolo.

[@SINdaBlock411]

I also believe that Nail was slightly weaker than Recoome, Burter and Jeice, but has the healing factor, is more intelligent and gifted as a fighter and of course has far more to protect, that would cancel out whatever slight disadvantage in powerlevel he may have ... Ginyu 1-shots him though

[@stephensperr1379]

Would the Present Z fighters beat the Future Androids with their 3 year training as per Future Trunks’ plan?

[@ghoztly7099]

Both of their win conditions would be special beam cannon or final flash but neither could hit it TBH. Piccolo wins 6/10 times IMO. Why? Well the TLDR is he has no ki/transformation issues, insane durability paired with regeneration and a multitude of techniques, tons of strong ki waves that are extremely fast as well as ones he can fire from his mouth. He also has giant form, and his long limbs. Both their techniques take a long time to gather energy for, although we have seen instances where the special beam cannon was launched pretty quickly. In any case, neither are just going to stand there and try to dodge or tank it. Durability goes to Piccolo. I don't think I need to explain why. Piccolo also has WAY more techniques. He can fire beams from his mouth, has long limbs, a giant form which Vegeta no longer has access to, and also has several different ki attacks that fire off far quicker than any of Vegeta's. He also has multi-form, and likely solar flare too. If Goku and krillin can use it, so he can he, just never actually needed to. Vegeta might have a marginally higher power level, but I just can't see him finishing Piccolo off. Piccolo outlasts, and defeats him IMO.

[@cibray89]

During the cell games Piccolo was still standing when Gohan went SSJ2 AND he was fighting two because he was protecting Goku so he’s definitely on Vegeta and a Trunks level if not stronger for being able to hold his own. Pretty sure he saved Yamcha and Tien too

[@raditzdaimao1357]

Before I watch vid I feel This is very close as “Kamiccolo went back into the time chamber

[@crisstoff89]

In hand to hand they would be even I'd say but Super Vegeta has more devastating attacks. You have to understand that Piccolo has to jump Imperfect cell - Semi perfect Cell and equal to Super Vegeta , thats quite the jump because he doesnt benefit from Zenkais (even if they are insemnificative after Namek) and we all know saiyans benefit more from training then most races out there, especially since he went alone and no way does he benefit from the same jumps in power. Vegeta was able to jump from 17-imperfect cell - semi imperfect cell , it makes sense he is still more powerfull in attacks.

[@dovahduke4566]

I always went by the power cell displayed in kamehameha battle he blow back Krillin, Piccolo, Yamaha and Tien but Vegeta made him buckle

[@danielvereb4579]

I loved the video and absolutely agree on every point. Except one. Vegeta on Namek vs Final Form Frieza, compared to Piccolo. Vegeta was trash. He was not anywhere near Piccolo. He claims to be but then, he would not have backed off on Earth when Piccolo stepped in between him and Gohan. If he was that much more powerful, he would have not cared about Piccolo but he backed off.

[@PuppyGeneral]

Vegeta and Piccolo should be experts on fighting cell juniors because they are use to fighting opponents that size saibamen and the other creatures that jumped piccolo in the dr wheelo movie but I believe piccolo was the most skilled at the time while vegeta had more power output

[@DigitalWraith]

On the subject of [VEGETA'S TECHNIQUE] When did Boo learn it from Vegeta? He never used that attack on Boo when they fought.

[@shikaotsu7194]

I think Grade 2 is a 25% increase, Grade 3 is a 40-50% increase, and Grade 4 (mastered) is the same as Grade 3 without drawbacks, basically a 62.5-75x boost from base and Grade 5 (Super Saiyan 2) is actually around 125-150x base or 2x Grade 4 which makes Super Saiyan 3 a 450-600x multiplier, and it sounds insane but if you do the math then it sort of makes sense, if we are to say Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta are all close as Super Saiyan 2 and they fought Buu at the same time, I don't think they'd be able to compete with Buu as well, even with a 4 on 1 with Piccolo there but if Super Saiyan 3 is over 400x then it explains why Goten and Trunks (arguably equal to or slightly weaker than Gohan in Super Saiyan) when fused in base is weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Goku but in Super Saiyan is noticeably close to Goku in power to where he could probably have beaten Buu (before Super Buu) by themselves..

[@Thromaz]

I think we need to drop the guide books almost entirely... They really clash with the narrative... It comes of in the series like grade 2 is super saiyajin on top of super saiyajin, grade 3 is another one on top of that (at the cost of everything except power) and then grade 4 like we see is just don't transform but use the latent energy as a buff to a atats... I do think the 500x multplier starts to look realistic narratively but that we're also looking at 50x 50x for grade 2 etc...

[@jonathancrosby1583]

52 min after upload I am number 1 hahahahahaha

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

I bet piccolo Train with himself literally

[@frankiejones7858]

I don’t really get how vegeta and trucks really hit that boost they didn’t show what they did in there and I’m pretty sure trunks said vegeta didn’t really pay attention to him so wtf did they do did they actually spar, but for that part around the 10 minute mark I think trunks was just surprised because goku was kinda roasting people when he existed he shut vegeta up by roasting him back 😂

[@SINdaBlock411]

I think Piccolo would win, the way he fended off some of the Cell Jrs (who were on par with Super Vegeta Post SECOND ROSAT) ...

[@chimericalical]

Why do people make a big deal about Vegeta never fighting Piccolo? Of the main cast Vegeta has only fought Yajirobe, Krillen, Goku, and Gohan. Yamcha, Tien, and Chaotsu we’re all present when Vegeta showed up and none of them fought Vegeta.

[@wizzymanjr8935]

What I've learned is that piccolo trains way better than the saiyan's

[@alsims2007]

I'll change my mind from the poll where I chose Vegeta. only reason is because of Piccolo's brief hope that he could beat Perfect Cell. he saw 1st hand Semi P. Cell's power and witnessed from the look out P. Cell destroy Vegeta. while P. Cell's power was somehow a complete mystery to even people fighting him, Piccolo would at least know he would have to be stronger that Super Vegeta to have that idea that he could win. I really ignore Trunks reactions to people's power. nearly every time he's given power estimates they are either wrong or questionable.

[@gaiali453]

I remember after everyone was wished back to earth by Porugna in the freeza saga little Gohan challenges Vegeta on earth and gets defeated. Then Piccolo steps in to keep Vegeta from killing Gohan. I thought for sure I was going to see Piccolo vs Vegeta and wondered who would win back then.

[@cloudxz92]

Was that not Filler? It's funny how Vegeta was flying away and in the next Episode he was back like nothing happend. Vegeta at Earth in the Namek Arc was a lot stronger then Piccolo. Piccolo could not see anything that Frieza did. Vegeta saw it at least.

[@gaiali453]

@@cloudxz92 Yes!!!! Thank you. I forgot about that. Vegeta was able to see final form finger blast where everyone else didn't. So he pushes Gohan out of the way. 👍

[@rafaelferreira7408]

Piccolo, no doubt.

[@MegaMachiOnline]

Now we need to see how strong he is in the Buu Saga

[@donaldo141194]

I would like to say he is at Perfect Cell before the zenkai level but probably not since Dabura didn't consider him strong enough to have his energy absorbed for Majin Buu

[@MegaMachiOnline]

@@donaldo141194 RoF Gohan who hasn’t been training for an extra 4 to 5 years and practically lost Ssj & Ultimate as forms was all like “I’m still stronger than you Piccolo” after admitting his own slacking so this would really backup Buu Saga Base Saiyans being op in hindsight, especially since we know Goku & Vegeta agreed Dabura/Super Perfect Cell would be a pushover for them now before learning about Dabura’s Magic and their shared ability to go Ssj2 whereas Gohan was still underperforming compared to his Cell Games self overall

[@MegaMachiOnline]

@@donaldo141194 all I know for sure is if we use the guides then Shin is supposed to be as strong as Cell Games Goku, but otherwise it’s pretty up in the air

[@justinarzola4584]

I'd say he was stronger than Super Perfect Cell but weaker than most of the Majins( besides Pui Pui and Yakon) and weaker than the kais we see.