Christian Socialism? What it is and What the Gospel Says About it.

[@latifoljic]

I've been into politics for a long time, and for much of that time I was a capitalist in the sense that I thought capitalism was good. Recently I've become a socialist, and I've found that my political beliefs now are so much more compatible with Christianity. I've now realized that as a capitalist, I was becoming slowly more and more detached from Christ's teachings. I never expected that becoming a socialist would bring me closer to Christ but it has. Before, I would have hesitated to call myself a Christian, probably because I suspected deep down that my views were incompatible with Christianity. Now, as a socialist, I would not hesitate at all to call myself a Christian.

[@clup3136]

A Free-market system is a system in which, in order to success, you have to serve your fellow men with better goods&services than others. What's more christian than that? Also, remember the parabole of the talents. Christ was a pacifist, state socialism is based on imposed mandates by force/violence. Free markets are based on bilateral simbiotic relations between citizens. In a free market you are free to help your fellow men with your money or time: in fact in 19-20th century there were free hospitals and such for those in need in the USA. In State socialism those decisions are taken by others (without free will, there's no space to become virtuous by the way). Maybe christianism is compatible with non-imposed socialism, but not with state socialism.

[@latifoljic]

@@clup3136 you don't have to help your fellow man to succeed under capitalism though. All you have to do is own the means of production, like stocks and land. Shareholders and landlords don't necessarily help anyone, yet they still extract massive profits from society. Also, some jobs don't really help anyone, or hurt more than they help. For example, the military industrial complex as it currently exists just harms people in the middle East for petty reasons like revenge or geopolitical and economic strategy. Plus, a capitalist system is based in violence just as much as state socialism is. If you refuse to acknowledge land ownership, violence is used against you. If you break non-compete agreements with your employer, violence is used against you. If you try to buy cheaper prescription drugs for yourself without a prescription because you don't have health insurance, violence is used against you. Also in a free market you are not free to help your fellow man if you work for almost the whole day almost every day. You won't have the time to work at a free hospital. And most people don't have enough money to work anything less than 40 hours a week without losing healthcare or being unable to pay rent, etc. In a socialist system, you can still be virtuous by helping people and volunteering your time to make their lives better. You still have money and free will. The only difference is that you can't make as much money simply by owning the means of production. Under socialism, ideally, you get the absolute minimum you need even if you don't help anyone, and the only way to succeed beyond that is through helping other people with your labor, rather than through owning the things people need to use to help themselves or others. And the parable of the talents isn't necessarily an endorsement of capitalism, it is merely a description of capitalism. It says nowhere in the Bible that we should endorse the actions of the master or the actions of his first two servants. It makes more sense to me if the master is seen as being wrong in that story. He steals wages from his workers (sounds like a bad guy sort of thing to do) and he certainly at least won't be riding the camel of his wealth through the eye of any needles anytime soon. The parable of the talents is one of the most anticapitalist allegories I have ever heard imo.

[@clup3136]

@@latifoljic No. In a free market system you have *more* free time and higher wages. How? Because in a free market system, all businesses are incentivezed to be more productive hence to enhance their means of production (instead of farming with tools now you do it with a Volvo Tractor that will allow u to collect x1000 which will make each worker hour more productive allowing him to earn more). As business grow and became more productive, each *new* worker will provide more gains▪︎so workers are really wanted (capitalists and CEOs start compiting to attract and mantain workers on _their_ business. How? Better conditions, wages and free time. Why? Because as business need workers, know workers have the power to choose what they want). Also, when increasing productivity now u have *abundance* of goods&services so prices go down (= more purchasing power for the workers). With that improvement of free time& purchaising power helping others becomes easier. ▪︎= this is called _Marginal productivity_ , and determines *wages* . With enhances in the quality of means of production, marginal productivity increases. And you can employ more workers without losing money (less unemployment) and to incentivice them to go to work for you u have to establish attractive comditions. I trully recommend Economy in one lesson by Hazlitt (quick lecture) or Modern principles of economics by tyler cowen & alex tabarrok (longer, and a bit more technical, but easy and entertaining to read). Wish u a nice day 🙌 👉About the origin of wealth: Every year billionaire's wealth is being created by non- rich people, making inherited wealth a minority of billionaires: Figure 4 and 5 of the paper "The origins of superrich" (by Caroline Freund and Sarah Oliver). 👉75% of wealth in USA is selfmade. Paper: "The right wing of wealth" by wai&lincoln. Edit: the "👉"

[@latifoljic]

@@clup3136 so why does any of that change if instead of being able to buy and sell stocks, the company is owned by the workers, one share per worker? Why would any of that change if we provided public housing through income taxes? You can implement socialism while still leaving some markets fairly free, even the labor market, as long as the stock market is gone and the housing market isn't as exploitative as it is under capitalism. Also selfmade? Nothing is selfmade. Everything is made by everyone, you can't make hardly anything without an entire society to support you. If you're making money through increases in stock price and dividends, it's especially obvious who is actually making your wealth: the workers in the companies you own. Investment isn't labor and no matter whether you want to call it selfmade wealth or stolen wealth, it's not really a very productive enterprise to just own things that other people use. Also to maybe point out the obvious: the work week is still 40 hours, it has been in the US since 1940, it has pretty much never been lowered by anything except law, and trying to work less than that will result in you not being eligible for benefits. So you don't get more free time under a free market system. You get more free time by passing laws to increase the amount of free time you get. Plus if you look at historical graphs of productivity vs wages, you'll find they're not quite as related as your theory suggests. I love a good mathematical model as much as any economist but when it doesn't actually predict real world behavior, it's nothing more than a fun homework problem for ECON 101 students.

[@clup3136]

@@latifoljic No. "Free time and free markets and 1940": if you look in FRED wages in 1940 and now you will see that real wages have more than tripled for that same time u mention. So the *$/hour* has increased allowing people to work less for the *same* amount of time. "Productivity and wages": there is really no distance between them. You may be looking to a very known graph that seems so, BUT it contains a few sum of methodological mistakes, and if u correct them, the distance between productivity and wages disappears. One of the mistakes is using CPI to deflate wages in the graph: wages ought to be deflated by a GDP deflator (that's because CPI overrepresents inflation, diminishing wages in the graph). The other is not counting in the graph non-monetary wages (shares of the company, healthcare plans and others). The graph also leaves management jobs out of the graph for some reason.. If u look in google graphs with these stuff solved, you'll find that prod and wages go hand by hand. It doesn't happen because employers are generous, but because they need the workers and in order to keep them in their business they are forced to do it. "Investment is not production": managing a company and realocate resources (or choosing the right CEO) is a job and *is* productive as is an action that can improve productivity. A good CEO can reorganize a business improving it's efficency or improving the satisfaction of the client by changing the product: for example the last CEO of ZARA and his managment of the business in the last decade. "Shares": a company owned by workers can be better, that's true. And the opposite can happen. But is difficult being an expert in everything, that's why being a good investor or a good capitalist and at the same time a good worker is very difficult (a day doesn't have that many hours). That's why a capitalist will tend to be more competitive and productive (not always, but it usually is). Because someone expert in a very specific thing will likely be better than an expert without that specific knowledge. That's why, even in a worker owned business, the worker may prefer to sell his share and gain some money and focus on working. At the same time, the share may be bought by another worker that prefers to invest more and spend less time being a blue collar worker. Each one will gain experience in their fields, and both will benefit. Also, in a capitalist country the more productive business will be the one that survives. If a worker's owned was more efficent, those business would gain a competitive advantage destroying the capitalist ones. But that doesn't happen.

[@chazchillings3019]

I feel that there is so much literature I have never been exposed to before. Thank you.

[@barnabywylde2224]

Jesus: sell your belongings and use the proceeds to help the lame, sick and any who has need. We don't find a value like that in the policies of our government.

[@HolyPelvisPresley]

Yep, but do it voluntary, don't have the state force you to do it. Socialism is about conformity, not Christianity.

[@blop-a-blop9419]

@@HolyPelvisPresley yes, 'voluntarily' do what you were ordered to ! Is living in a gulag really worse than being tortured in Hell ?

[@Concerned_one]

@@blop-a-blop9419 are you legitimizing slavery and poor living conditions?

[@blop-a-blop9419]

@@Concerned_one i don't know man, are You legitimizing a totalitarian God that can convict you of thought crime and punish you to infinite suffering as a consequence of a finite lifetime ?

[@jameshendrickson8159]

Name the one country or society that practices your Christian socialism to this day and has practiced this doctrine from jesus christ himself actively from jesus' crucifixion to this day.

[@zackhussain1466]

I’m Muslim and I like these good folks.

[@dbr295]

Have you read the works of Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz? He was a great scholar of the Quran & espoused similar views about setting about just socio-economic system.

[@Jed_the_Malamute]

God bless you. Also may Christ bless you.

[@raqueljacobs1542]

You guys are awesome!! I’m a Christian and a Socialist and I’m excited by everything I have seen from you! Thank you for adding your opinion to the discourse! I look forward to seeing more about your opinions and lifestyle choices!

[@wouldntyouliketoknow1496]

Jesus is NOT a socialist. Period. Read your bible please. He does not want the government to have total power..period kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWSso5iPqslleZY

[@grahamrogers3345]

@@wouldntyouliketoknow1496 1 percent of Americans own 50 Percent of the wealth and the Bible gets misapplied to convince people like you that God is cool with that.

[@grahamrogers3345]

@@wouldntyouliketoknow1496 No one said Jesus was a socialist

[@wouldntyouliketoknow1496]

@@grahamrogers3345 ok. Well if u are okay with your tax dollars building a 200 million dollar golf course for the wealthy. Then okay. I am not. If your okay with pelosi investing millions in green energy companies and then pushing that agenda, well im not. Look like they want to get rich. Look what she said when asked to NOT spend our money on a golf course..she said no.lol after promising this infrastructure wont cost us anything. All lies. It does. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6OWi6WNm8udp9U

[@wouldntyouliketoknow1496]

@@grahamrogers3345 only one year into social spending and the gas had gone up 300%, food and goods have also. Doesn't look like their policies are helping people like us..ever heard that saying..if your not a Democrat at 20 then you have no heart, but if your not a conservative at 30, then you dont have a brain.. Falling for lies about socialism. Its a political platform like it or not. Pray..read your bible..your wrong.

[@adrijan6510]

I'm muslim I'm socialist and I love Jesus

[@leozafirov8209]

Based

[@JesusIstDerWegDieWahrheitLeben]

Jesus is God

[@wreck342]

Im Christian, also socialist, and i also love Jesus christ ✝️

[@PantsButNoShirt]

Sick brother ✝️

[@adrijan6510]

@endtimesareuponus8930 you're not even a socialist shut the f up

[@illuminatinixon]

In the UK our left wing Labour party was said to be "more methodism than marxism". We've had figures like Donald Soper and many of our left wing politicians were motivated by their faith, but that's rarer and rarer these days unfortunately.

[@yoshikatsumi]

labour is usually somewhere between neoliberalism (blair), social democracy (centre-left reformism) and anti-imperialism (corbyn) but hardly ever "marxist" in its traditional sense, therefore it would have to be anti-monarchism (republican) first (which they aren't) and also revolutionary in the sense of trying to overthrow bourgeoise democracy. which they both aren't as far as i'm concerned. they are a political party that wants to win elections and rule over people, they don't really fight for the working class (working class often doesn't even vote for them and obviously, most of their politicians are middle/upper class just like their right-wing counterparts), they sometimes openly offend them (especially if they don't get their votes). but this is a common phenomenon for left wing/centre-left parties, not just a uk thing.

[@sagethecommunist5275]

It's kind of weird to hear socialism as being critiqued for being 'coercive' when simply existing under capitalism mandates coerced labour :/

[@tylerrice7145]

Honestly this! Also, socialism is a spectrum with different ideologies within it. For example many of the quotes they said were actually more of Christian Anarchism which is different from Marxist-Leninism (USSR/Cuba for example). Dorothy Day specifically considered herself Christian Anarchist (the whole no master thing is quintessential Anarchism)

[@ripred42]

@@tylerrice7145 Yes, and before the hippy communes there were many christian communes in the 19th century that practiced common ownership in a way that might be considered socialist by today's standards.

[@clup3136]

Not true. You, as a worker, sell you labor force. Some people will be willing to take the risk of paying for that labor force (your wage) in order to produce something with your collaboration. It's voluntary cooperation. If someone is not willing to pay the price in which you sell your labor force, you can negotiate to achive a solution that benefits both of you. If the employee thinks it's too expensive he will search for the same labor force for a lower price, in the same way any reasonable person will buy something: searching the best _ratio_ *quality* (what you are capable of producing)/ *price* (the cost=wages). It's not coertion, it's exchange of value to fit both of your needs. Socialism mandates over that consented cooperation that's giving value to the cooperators. That's why socialism is coertion over one of the parts, and free-market isn't. Edit: free-market benefits the *poor* the most btw, as an equilibrated supply-demand allows resources to relocate in the more efficent way thus decreasing costs and prices of goods&services.

[@pastorj1983]

@@clup3136 work or die is literally what you have under capitalism.

[@clup3136]

@@pastorj1983 "work or die" is what anyone has just for being alive, as resources don't fall from the sky. Resources (food, furniture,..) have to be extracted, manufactered and transported to consumers. For that, human action is needed: correct. And for accessing to the result of that effort you need to have created something of value to someone (work) before, in order to pay them (with your earnings) for what they have produced.

[@olgalavado]

Agnostic socialist here... I am really happy to find this channel. It is very informative and clear.

[@Bruderhof]

Thank you!

[@jeanmichellelaurent]

Christian socialism is based, it's true socialism and true Christianity!!

[@grahamrogers3345]

I love you guys. I am now in my 50s but I have totally believed in Christian socialist ideas since I first gave my life to Christ as a teenager. I wish I had discovered you guys 40 years ago. When I found you I cried tears of joy.

[@dfresh3941]

Christians shouldn't want to TAKE someone else's money. The "government" of the time also killed jesus.

[@wouldntyouliketoknow1496]

There is NO country who has socialism and allows the bible. Socialism is an ideology. It is communism. China banned the bible. They know it contradicts socialism, that is why they ban it! READ YOUR BIBLE

[@wouldntyouliketoknow1496]

If you believe jesus wants socialism. Then read your bible..he does not want socialism. Not socialist country even has the bible, because it contradicts socialism.

[@grahamrogers3345]

@@wouldntyouliketoknow1496 You have a very narrow view of socialism. Nothing about real socialism contradicts Christianity. Stop thinking soviet Union.

[@grahamrogers3345]

@@wouldntyouliketoknow1496 As for no socialist country has the bible?? There are no socialist countries so how would you know?

[@lawriecoombs6206]

Hi comrades!

[@PaolaSanchez-kq3lx]

Lol! Team NEVER A SOCIALIST. Get to work, yall!

[@shrekisurdad5969]

@@PaolaSanchez-kq3lx socialism is AMAZING

[@PaolaSanchez-kq3lx]

@@shrekisurdad5969 Tell that to north koreans

[@fungusmoon]

@@PaolaSanchez-kq3lx “work” is the onus of socialism. It is centred on the value of the worker.

[@pipsdontlie3031]

@@PaolaSanchez-kq3lx I agree, the rich should start working

[@username19237]

It’s been more than a decade since I’ve been with the faith but when I hear more from Christian Socialists like you talk about in this video I do feel closer. Thanks for the words.

[@ealdorman5053]

You should read from Corneliu Zelea Codreanu who promoted National Christian Socialism Also Chancellor Dollfuss who promoted the Christian Corporative State & served with the Christian Social Party helping Laborers

[@CocoTheDiamond]

i’m really impressed with the bruderhof and with your knowledge of theology. if only i had found you guys when i was in my early 20s. alas. i’m now an atheist but love everything you guys stand for. my parents were missionaries and my dad is a pastor still in the church of christ, i went to a southern baptist seminary and was a youth minister very briefly. thanks for the videos you guys do!

[@Bruderhof]

Thank you Amanda!

[@CocoTheDiamond]

@Wallace Christensen it’s hard to return to an imaginary friend who was never there to begin with. but i appreciate the kind sentiment.

[@ViktorOddy]

lol same here. But if ur smart person u'd still become an atheist, i was watching all the progressive christian youtube, read all the progressive books and still an atheist here ;D

[@grahamrogers3345]

@@CocoTheDiamond Amanda I had an opposite journey and was originally an atheist. It was studying Darwinisn that I realised the total illogicality of evolutionism. God is real.

[@CocoTheDiamond]

@@grahamrogers3345 i doubt you explored it scientifically if you came to the conclusion there is a god. the opposite of evolution - even if it were proven wrong - is not “god.” it’s just back to the scientific drawing board. you have a serious logical fallacy there. if science is true, there is no god. if science is not true, there is a god. those two statements are fallacious. neither is necessarily true and god isn’t the opposite of evolution. also: if you read some ICR doctrine, you would see an explanation of genetic change over time which they call other things, but which is by definition evolution. bc that’s the only true conclusion from humanity’s study of genetics… they change over time. the ICR soft paddles it with different terminology. just follow the logic. not the mythology. you have no good reasons or evidence to believe in a god.

[@miriamsilata8498]

I was us pro with all capitalist values but the more I study the bible in new testament Christians I became socialist activist . No one convince me I was convicted by myself to accept socialism.. Lens from the eastern Christianity.. Godbless you , don't stop making such video give some foundmental idea to geopolitics and it's system. Good job..

[@happytraveller8953]

I would pay good money to have your two cents about the current political climate and certain elements of congress who pontificate about right-wing Moral Majority aspects of the Freedom caucus yet consistently withhold funding for desperately needed financial aid for housing, food and healthcare. I do NOT want to make this a political argument but am sincerely interested in knowing how your community feels about where the US is headed. If you cannot speak about topics like this, I understand.

[@chazchillings3019]

But they wouldn’t take your good money :)

[@happytraveller8953]

@@chazchillings3019 true enough, even if it is an adage. I could always make an in-kind donation, though...folks on the Bruderhof are far more honorable than a good number of folks running around the planet. I'd still like to sit down with them and hear their thoughts on the current political scene.

[@PrecisionAarstrike]

Capitalism is not evil. It has provided more opportunities than any form of government that I know of.

[@justinratcliffe947]

Finally. Somewhere here with a brain

[@s.a3099]

Exactly. Socialism is a flawed ideology that doesn’t take human nature into consideration. It’s not sustainable at all.

[@cesarvillegas3799]

@@s.a3099 DURRR SOCIALISM DOESNT WORK BC HOOMAN NATUREeee

[@cesarvillegas3799]

Cappie

[@PrecisionAarstrike]

@@cesarvillegas3799 are you upset because you like socialism or was this just a sarcastic joke

[@loZoneranger560]

"Where power over others is replaced by love" How beautiful!

[@rickywinthrop]

I'm a lifelong social democrat agnostic. I have always thought there were many paralells between proper socialism and Jesus teachings. I may not believe in the devine but I do believe in the promotion of inherant human decency and love as a path of least resistance in life through systems of thought and organization that support the human spirit and bring us together rather than forcing us apart. Because of this I take many of jesus teachings regarding how we treat eachother in the here and now very seriously. Good advice is good advice regardless god or the supernatural. Under capitalism no one truly lives properly save the sociopaths who are without concience. Socialism is about to have its "moment" from what I can see and even as a commited nonbeliever I truly hope the words of Jesus can be used to help bring humanity and decency to this important cause.

[@jj18057]

Christian collectivism(socialism) is vastly different than a government socialism. One is at the hands of the governments implied monopoly on force and violence.

[@MexicoCountryLivingBacktoEden]

Wow, I'm amaze at the level of research and clarity. So much knowledge and wisdom in such short time. God richly bless you for you hard work and ministry. If you allow me, i have a question. Would it be possible for a millionaire to be part of your community? Specially if this person would like to dedicate all of his riches for the good of the community, but also be able to keep running his businesses in order to continue giving systematically everything that is optained as a result?

[@dgvigil]

This is very informative! Thank you for making this video. I can’t wait to watch the rest of the series.

[@Bruderhof]

You are so welcome!

[@mikejames6347]

everybody loves Rosa

[@hondafreedom9329]

What really impresses me about the Bruderhof community through your videos and others' videos in the Bruderhof is the intelligence you all seem to possess. I think your education system really imbues critical thinking through classic literature, making it very attainable to understand with its foundation in Christianity. Do you have a curriculum for your high schools?

[@echo-channel77]

Critical thinking? This is the complete OPPOSITE of critical thinking. It's copying bad ideas and false prophecy. Stealing from one to give to another is not a new, but people who lack critical thinking skills ignore the consequences of all the failed attempts. This idea was tried in America with early settlers. They all ended up dying.

[@windradyne8724]

To say capitalism is based on greed is rather ignorant.

[@robertocaetano4945]

Its based on personal profit...more and more...what you can call It?

[@Waaaghster]

This is such a nice breath of fresh air after youtube dumping kenneth copeland on me for the past two nights (Thanks Algorithm)

[@EyeLean5280]

It's unfortunate that women in this community are held to a different standard than men, and must wear "modest" (read: unattractive) clothing styles, whereas men can wear jeans and attractive shirts. If it weren't for this anti-woman double-standard, I might have considered joining.

[@cliffordishii3738]

I am a Biblical Christian not a socialist nor a Christian socialist.

[@dominicj7977]

So? Have you given up all your wealth and possessions?

[@reverendbluejeans1748]

Got no problem with non violent socialism

[@juliocastillo1945]

Hi there, I'm sorry if this question has been posted here but I'll like to know if you're actually registered as a charity or religious association with the government? Thank you very much.

[@noney4459]

this concept is new to me. thanks for posting. i have recently been reintroduced to God and i believe my education on capitalism and politics has positively impacted my relationship with God--even though I have realized the world is even more corrupt and disoriented than I had originally imagined.

[@clup3136]

In a free market system, one can only get rich by *serving their fellow men's needs * with better goods&services and prices than their competition. What's more *christian* than that? Also, remember the parabole of talents. And the *comandaments* , which protect private property. Socialism is compatible with christianism if everyone participating from it accept to live like that, but beware, as any imposed socialism goes against most Christian values. Chris was a pacifist, _the communist manifiesto_ encourages _"the violent collapse of the burgeous class"_ .

[@ubuntuposix]

Yes, Jesus was a Socialist. But imo Socialism needs a Rational Democracy, not a Representative one, no person should be "the leader". The best ideas should be our "leader". So I'm thinking of a Forum for Policy Proposals, with a design for arguments and a Scoring System (based on the (Maslow's) table of human needs).

[@anunpopularstance]

I'm not anti socialism. I'm anti-non-Christian socialism which is exactly why ALL forms of government imposed socialism fail. Capitalism is the only method that works on a large scale for anyone when God is being honored.

[@johncaze757]

I'm pretty sure neither socialism or capitalism is in the Bible?

[@pathowogenempire9968]

socialism isnt suppose to control the goverment socialism is not authoritarian

[@SirThomasDrake]

@@pathowogenempire9968lol. The only way socialism is implemented is at the barrel of a gun.

[@christiantrucker6296]

I am not judging their salvation by no means, I do see some concerning statements I've heard them make on a few other videos. They said they follow the guidelines Jesus laid out on the sermon on the mount, this entire sermon was to the people of Jewish faith for a time that has not come as of yet . It's for the thousand year reign of Christ. Jesus said himself "I did not come but for the lost sheep of Israel " . Factually Jesus told the disciples to NOT go unto the gentiles. Yes a few gentiles was saved after His death and resurrection but it wasn't until AFTER the stoning death of Steven (Stephen) and the conversion of Saul (Paul) that Paul was ordained by Jesus to be the apostle to the gentiles. This is why discernment and rightly dividing the scriptures is so very important . I was saved in 2018 in my semi truck in a rest area in Kansas at the age of 46. I had been taught so much misinformation before that made salvation seem like "say a simple prayer " or "get yourself cleaned up , stop sinning and come to Christ " When a person showed me 1st Corinthians 15: 1-4 and explained its not works or a "sinners prayer " or" just ask Jesus into your heart " that saves you. Like Paul my eyes was opened and I understood and believed and was saved that EXACT moment. EVERYTHING about me changed. Things I didn't have the power to change myself HE changed them. Jesus took away my foul language, cares for worldly things, the want to commit suicide and Jesus gave me a love and peace I never new existed. The Holy Spirit entered and a New Me Was Born. I conveyed my new discovery to my wife and although she was skeptical at first , she studied it for herself and came to salvation through Christ also a few days later. Our lives have NEVER been better. Thank you Jesus!!! Now that being said we believe 100% the Bible IS THE INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD. You must use as I said discernment, rightly dividing the word and see the different DISPENSATIONS. GOD did not deal with ALL groups the same. The LAW was ONLY given to the Hebrew people not the Gentiles. Now after salvation we want to follow Gods law because we love Him and are thankful for his Grace and Gift of Salvation. JESUS FULFILLED THE LAW. As far as their other statement in another video of preparing the kingdom, that happens after the Harpozo (Rapture) and the 7 years of tribulation or Jacob's trouble. Then Christ returns to set up His kingdom and thousand years reign. HE (JESUS) sets up HIS kingdom, man has no place or ability to set up HIS kingdom. ONLY JESUS!!!!!! By teaching anything else you are teaching against God's word!!!!! Neither the apostle John nor apostle Paul in any of their writings said ANYTHING contrary to that either. Nor did the apostle John's student Polycarp or any other 1st century church fathers even mention preparing a kingdom. Seems that by the statements in several of their videos they are trying to "fit" themselves into the dispensation time line of the Hebrew (Jewish) people and NOT into the church (ecclesia) time of Grace that has continued for 2000 years. Their continued mention of the pentecost and afterward time when the disciples tried their communal living has nothing to do with the Gospel that was given LATER to the gentiles via PAUL. It was for shelter because of the persecution by the Pharisees. You do see that this didn't last long. Right? By doing this the disciples wasn't going out to spread the Gospel as they was told too. They keep mentioning the book of Acts not realizing Acts is a TRANSITIONAL book. Going from just Jewish people to Gentiles. I urge you to watch Brother ROBERT BREAKER's video on Dispensations in the Bible I believe it will be a blessing to you. Although I do understand the draw to come together and celebrate Christ and live with fellow believers. It's hard in this wicked world but if we are not out here amongst the lost and instead sheltering ourselves then HOW will they find the truth? How are WE setting an example or being a reflection of HIS light? You do not hide Your Light under a bucket but let it shine for ALL to see. No Man living in the Flesh seeks out God on their own, we are to walk in HIS ways being an example to the lost, planting and watering the seeds of faith just as we are to bring the Jew to jealousy so they also will believe in JESUS (YESHUA). Maybe instead of reading commentaries and books by socialist you should rightly dividing the WORD OF GOD. THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT WAS TO HEBREWS. THE GENTILES HAD NOT BEEN INCLUDED YET !!!!! You are also taking excerpts from scriptures and twisting them for your own purposes of socialism. You should know by twisting scriptures and using scriptures out of context for your own interpretation is wrong and warned against in scripture. You (maybe unknowingly) are leading people astray. I pray you will at least pray and ask God to show you if I'm right or wrong on this. Dont rely upon your traditions of your family teachings the Pharisees did that as well. Remember: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[@mrharvey]

The idea of a Robin Hood state is nowhere supported in the Bible. With all due respect to both of you, all the Scripture passages that you quoted were taken out of context. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "Rob from the hard-working people to give to the lazy ones." As a matter of fact, the Bible says exactly the opposite. It says, "Anyone who won't work shouldn't be allowed to eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10 New International Reader's Version). Now, it does not say, "Anyone who CANNOT work should not be allowed to eat." I definitely DO believe in helping those who cannot work. But modern-day Socialism is about the government taking money from people who work their tails off to give it to those who are not willing to work. And that is definitely, absolutely NOT Biblical.

[@fleebertreatise1063]

This was a cool video. Learning more about religion and how it intersected with social movements is really interesting. This sounds a lot like a Christian version of anarchism. In the leftist version of anarchism, there's a focus on hierarchy, and how the hierarchical power over others, ownership of resources, and government violence is unjustified (and harmful to society in many cases). Some advocate for a society with worker owned co-op's, and other arrangements like that, and decentralized government.

[@r.m7921]

Comrades in christ

[@farahbenadam8625]

I'm glad that there is a real manifestation of book of Acts on this world. That was my way of reading the bible and was always feeling something is wrong with the known churches. By the way I am from Morocco and I really hope to have that kind of living here, that was always in my imagination as a new Christian. And I feel I need that style of life more as a mother now. You are a reality of my dream, pray for us. I have tears in my eyes while writing this. Thank you for that hope you gave me. I wish we can contact more to know how to start it.

[@Bruderhof]

Hi Farah! So great to hear from you. You can email me at [e-mail]. I would love to correspond. Maureen.

[@farahbenadam8625]

@Mountaindew don't steal is a commandment of the OT we are supposed to not lust for what others have and to not want only for yourself but love others. The way they are living doesn't look like some work others not everyone is working. The irony is that in the capitalist seems that the richer you are the less you work and there are many abuses of power and love of money

[@CripplingDuality]

@Mountaindew in and out of the Bible, evidence is of how historical Christian communities conducted themselves. The pathological illiteracy of the evangelical doesn't change this.

[@tunayumrukuz7744]

@Mountaindew Socialism and communism do not oppose personal property (which is the domain of stealing). private property are things that you use to make money. "the one who is unwilling to work shall not eat" is a core communist principle. communism is about EVERYONE working for EVERYONE. it isnt slagging off of someones back.

[@tunayumrukuz7744]

@Mountaindew Not private, personal. communism opposes private property, which is things like land, factories, businesses. things that make you money through other's exploitation. personal property is the property you use. for example, the house you live in (not the ones you rent out), your phone, your clothes et cetera. The communal living dissolved because of the introduction of private property. it can be undone. if we all owned the farms and the factories of our world and shared our things, everything would be better. and no, you know nothing about leftist history. those "attempts" of "communism" you are speaking of are marxist leninist revolutions, which are an opportunistic and authoritarian offshoot of socialism. that is literally, in a literal sense, completely, fully, not communism. not at all, not even a sliver. i dont care what propaganda you were fed in school or from media but if you cared to learn about communism you'd see that those "attempts" you are speaking of arent viable comebacks to communism.

[@bradh6185]

Why did Jesus say there are many mansions in Heaven? Doesn't that appeal to materialism? Whose nice big homes are those in the beginning of the video? I ask these questions as a capitalist and Christian. I have set out to find Christian explanations that the early Christians weren't communists. Your videos came up in the search. Thanks for making your videos. I always like to hear both sides of a debate.

[@jailtheology]

Love you guys! You are right. Don't listen to the critics in the apostate church. who apparently believe that the Sermon on the Mt is about greed and hoarding material possessions LOL.

[@rreimold]

First let me say that I do not believe that I am absolutely right about my interpretation and I want to believe that I could be persuaded of your interpretation given sufficient evidence. When I read Acts 2 I don't get the idea that they sold everything they had and lived together in one place but that they sold all their excess belongings... what they owned that was above and beyond what they needed. Verse 45 does not say "They sold ALL of their property and possessions and became homeless and penniless." Verse 46 says that "they broke bread in their homes..." which indicates to me that they had homes. It is possible that they did indeed sell everything they had and lived together communally, but this is not what is specifically stated. Acts 4:32 says "No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had." It is interesting that they still use the word "possessions"... and mention everything they "had"... which infers possession. I believe that everything I have possession of belongs to God... not me... but that He has entrusted it to me and I must steward it wisely. But it is not mine in some sense that I can do anything I want with it. Verse 34 says "From time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet." Here we see disciples owning land and selling it over a period of time... which leads me to believe that they owned the land. In verse 5:4 Peter says to Ananias: "Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal?" I can see how you arrive at your interpretation and very much respect that you live out what is in your conscience, but for me the evidence leans toward private ownership (stewardship, really) and selling excess property when it was needed by others in their church.

[@patrickpotter1620]

Right, but where is the line between excess property and necessary property? ;)

[@rreimold]

@@patrickpotter1620 That is a great question, and it seems that God has given us the freedom and responsibly to decide that for ourselves. Peter told Ananias that the money from the sale of his property was his to decide what to do with it. May God give us Grace to discern wisely.

[@Bruderhof]

Hi Randy! No I don't think the people referred to in Acts 2 and 4 became homeless and penniless. They became part of a body of believers that cared for each other. But crucially, "nobody called any of his possessions his own". I believe when we hold on to things - even if it's with the intention of stewarding it wisely - we're not being completely obedient to what Jesus call us to. Of course that kind of surrender is completely voluntary - which is why Peter said to Ananias "Didn't it belong to you?" - and should be done only, as the early Anabaptists put it, "for the joy and delight of your soul." Thank you for your thoughtful response. Rich

[@caracortage3270]

Excellent! But does love and moral judgement go way, way beyond your fellow human being? Where is wild life, nature and your fellow animals? In SIN, unfathomably cruelty and at the best sinfulness. Would Jesus have have wanted that to? And will your Sins be forgiven and should they?

[@dr.abdul-kadironyelukachuk4574]

Amen ! Amen!! & Amen!!!

[@wonderlasting]

Yes! What I would give to live this lifestyle! This is the ONLY socialism that's true. Bless you people for doing it the right way.

[@bigfoot4034]

Agreed

[@Qwertyytrwq92]

The truth is there will always be poor and rich, but in capitalism you may have a chance at getting away from Poverty... but the truth is Jesus says don't serve mammon and don't want.

[@keithgodfrey2023]

Have u got any where in Australia, if so pleas come to darwin nt asap need it

[@MurmilloTV1]

Very good analysis! I am from Germany. I like American pragmatism, but I don't understand why Social Democracy is mixed up with Communism. They are seperate!

[@clup3136]

Cause governtment interventionism in a socialdemocracy leads to economic distortions that ends up hurting society wellbeing _(lower wages, higher cost of living/housing,..)._ It'ss in that moment in which people don't see the root of the problem but demand a solution: which ends up being an even higher dose of interventionism. That's why socialdemocracy makes the State to grow and grow approaching step by step to a Socialist state (a socialdemocracy can also stay put some years or even apply some budget cuts, but *the trend is to always grow on the long run:* check *_Mauro et al._* to see this ). In that process some politicians will promise a communist society that will never arrive, while they keep getting richer and richer.

[@nederhood9192]

Very engaging talk 🦜.

[@frauleinanni1528]

Sounds to me like the setup of the Bruderhof resembles a lot of the setup of Jewish Kibbuzim (which might actually be built upon the same basic ideas). I wonder whether the German versions of the books of the authors you are mentioning are still available.

[@Jim.Simpson]

Marx said Socialism requires the abolishment of Christianity. Lenin held groups like Christians as allies until he got power, them he killed them. Also capitalism isn't built on greed, that's absurd. Capitalists can be greedy, but also generous. It's generosity is the single measurable unit of resource the church has had to share the gospel around the world. These concepts are values Christians should live by perhaps, but these are terrible ideas for a national government. History has emphatically established that.

[@smithfinland214]

socialism is older than marx en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism#Origins_of_socialism also there is christian left as a real movement en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_left

[@Jim.Simpson]

@@smithfinland214 correct. Marx was just the pawn that popularized the need for mass deconstruction of opposing ideologies. Marx is the one that all the nuts get tattooed on their hearts and virtual signal to be popular.

[@ianhomerpura8937]

That "generosity" is usually built on gaining something in return. If you are familiar with the corporate social repsonsibility system, it seems that companies do charity work and donations out of goodwill. However, it is an open secret that most of these corporations only do it for the tax breaks. Still a manifestation of greed for me.

[@AlternateTimelord]

“Atheism, as a negation of God, has no longer any meaning, and postulates the existence of man through this negation; but socialism as socialism no longer stands in any need of such a mediation.” - Karl Marx

[@RisenPhoenix68]

If anyone reads the Bible in its entirety, you see how God made it a principle to provide for your family. Apostle Paul even built tents so he would not be a burden to the church. Jesus showed that you rely on GOD, not rulers for your living.

[@Donutearthpodcast]

Roman's historically have been quoted as making fun of early Christian's for being anti materialist

[@RisenPhoenix68]

Yessss. Give unto Caesar your power to defend your family, give unto Caesar the power of judgement whether a baby is a blessing from God or a clump of cells. Its funny how the Apostles went back to fishing for their living.

[@joshbeardprops6354]

I cannot begin to tell you all who made this series how much I rejoice over you! For far too long has American propaganda stained the idea of caring for our neighbor and to give to all of those who are in need. Obviously not as a means to keep them dependent but as a means to change the entire system we have that is so focused on war and conquest and greed into one that does good to all. May Christ bless you all richly with more of Himself. You all will be in my prayers.

[@joshbeardprops6354]

As an additional note: I do not understand how those of us who call Christ our Lord (having received salvation when we did not deserve it) can have such a knee-jerk reaction to the act of giving to those who did not deserve the gift. It is WE who should be the most charitable and to advocate for all that we can that would implement the large-scale enacting of that very same value. Every time we give sacrificially, out of what God, Himself, has given in the first place, we demonstrate the Gospel. Tell me friends, what sum of money or possessions do the dead own? What amount out of that vast nothing does Christ require on our behalf to gain access into His presence? Only that we would come to Him in faith. Those who oppose anything of a Socialist nature want to advocate for Christians to live generously and sacrificially yet go on the defensive when people advocate for those funds to go toward those who need it most?

[@Bruderhof]

Thank you!

[@tbaxter212000]

Globally, Capitalism has raised more people out of penury and poverty; far more so than Socialism, which has condemned multitudes to it. That is a fact. God bless!

[@communist_man_of_pesto401]

It has also replaced God with the Iphone, the cross with the instagram logo, the bible with steve jobs' biography and the holy ghost with advertisement. Btw. developing countries mostly develop much faster and better under authoretarian socialism (not that that's a good thing). And the last fortress of capitalism, the USA, is crumbling as the middle class is practically vanishing. Capitalism in itself makes a developed country rich but isn't stable. So far the most stable system we have seen is the social market democracy.

[@tbaxter212000]

@@communist_man_of_pesto401 There are delineations and degrees concerning both systems, however, if we use the everyday meaning of Socialism [i.e., social ownership of the means of production] and match that against free-market enterprise, there is no argument who outperforms. I’m sorry, brother, but that argument and that train left the station a long time ago. Every single time-and without exception-free market enterprise has always delivered to the masses better quality, more choice and cheaper goods/services than any communitarian system ever could and raised a multitude from penury. Show me any reputable political/economic study proving otherwise because, to date, I’ve not found one, and rather many to the contrary. The maladies you describe in your intro are not from capitalism, per say, but from man’s need to fil the emptiness he feels without God. Don’t kid yourself in thinking that pre-industrial man, or even communist man, did not have his own devices that captivated him and led him away from God. Even in biblical times St. Paul issued injunctions and admonitions to be on guard against such things (see Ephesians 5:18). I am not saying that capitalism is without its faults as no system is perfect, but at the end of the day I will vote for Adam Smith’s unseen hand over Karl Marx’s state ownership any day. So will the refuges of yesterday’s Soviet Moscow & Kraków along with the suffering and abused peoples of today’s Venezuela and Cuba. It is sickening to see this, and it is dangerous naiveté to think next time it’ll be different.

[@communist_man_of_pesto401]

@@tbaxter212000 Yes.I made a case for social market democracy like in germany, sweden, france (basically the entire EU)... that is not socialism or communism as well as not being an entirely free market. Btw. even adam smith had equality of outcome in mind as well as being against extreme division of labor while a free market economy produces extreme division of labor as well as extreme inequality of outcome. And if you read Adam smith he actually writes that the state needs to interfere in that and that is exactly what a social market economy does. The state ensures fair treatment of the workers and gives them a voice, it ensures that everybody receives housing and enough money for food if they can't provide it for themselves, it ensures euqal opportunity etc.while upholding a free market in these boundaries. Or at least it should do that but like any political system it does not always live up to these goals. It however shows the most stability any economic system has ever shown And yes I do believe that capitalism changes people away from independend thought and to consumerism by advertising that lifestyle as the penultimate. We shake our heads in europe at the hypersensationalist USA.

[@justinratcliffe947]

I agree. All socialists are such fools. Capitalism all the way

[@bigfoot4034]

@@justinratcliffe947 support it all you want, it will collapse 1 day brother.

[@godislove8740]

Goooo Bruderhof! (Can we have some extra dry humour for pt2 please. )👍

[@n.c.1201]

Man: "Hi, I'm Rich...." Me: "Holy crap, he's going to hell! He can't squeeze through the eye of a needle!" Great video!!! 1 Timothy 6 states there is a purpose for masters. It doesn't seem to me Jesus argues the point of status, rather trying to quelch the attempt to use money to move beyond what you were born into. Finding joy in the Lord is your purpose.

[@Lucideyes89]

No cap I want to find a socialist church. Why is it not a thing?

[@clup3136]

I disagree with your statements, i think that you have good intentions and i like that, but is not correct to say that christianism is compatible with socialism and incompatible with free-market capitalism. Here is why: - The commandment *2* "you shall not steal" and the *10* "you shall not covet the goods of others" go quite against socialism or communism as confiscating the property of someone without their consent is theft. - *Common good and love of neighbor* : in the Free-market to get rich you have to serve the *needs* of others (with goods&servicies) better than the competition, if not, you do not see a penny. (by the way: monopolies are limitations of free competition and therefore against the free-market- in case someone thinks on these problematic situations😇-). So, if someone wants to succeed, he/she has to serve others (what's more christian than that?). - *equality* : in Christianity equality is equality in human dignity, not material equality. In fact, in the _parable of talents_ the father gets angry with the son who had less money for not having worked and increased his earnings (instead he congratulates the other 2 brothers who made higher and *unequal* amounts of money). - Christ was a pacifist, communism-socialism is based on "the violent collapse of the bourgeois class" according to the Communist Manifesto. I disagree with you, but it was an interesting video. Have a nice day! 💪🙌

[@pastorj1983]

You don't understand the difference between private property and personal property.

[@clup3136]

@@pastorj1983 - Which part of what i've said leads you to that assumption? - in which way, does "not knowing that difference" invalidate something that i said?

[@jospenner9503]

It's amazing how much nothing someone will say when all you're saying is "I worship money." Nice try buddy. They are right, you are greedy.

[@clup3136]

@@jospenner9503 You haven't been able to deny any of my statements. Interestingly u say i am greedy, answer me something: 1- when u pay your taxes, do u pay more than u are obliged to? 2- do u want a higher wage? Have u ever asked for a rise? 3- if u are going to choose a restaurant to eat between 2 exactly equal restaurants, do you choose the cheaper one or the more expensive one? Edit: as you believe to be unatached to money and dispise it, can u show me how non greedy u are by sending me 1000$ a month?

[@jospenner9503]

@@clup3136 🤣 Keep your day job!

[@suzannal6047]

I found this to be extremely interesting and I found some great food for thought! Thank you! God bless you! I was wondering if you two are man and wife, you seem to get along so great!

[@Bruderhof]

Thanks for watching! No Maureen is married to the amazing Jason - builder of harps (kzbin.info/www/bejne/enfdi4OEbNmYbtE) and tree houses (kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHqZpnh8lr-Aa5o) whose craftsmanship far exceeds Richard's.

[@WeberBaker]

While you did not define socialism as you use it, what you seem to be talking about is more like communism (as removed from socialist/communist.ideals of Marx/Engels/Lenin) than socialism which means the control of the means of production by the state.

[@lawriecoombs6206]

I dont think you can identify states of being as fixed categories. Processes flow in and out in tandem with consciousness. There is no communism without the imprint of Marx and Lenin, although equally this isn't the last word either. Communism or whatever we call the higher stages of postcapitalism will have many contemplating energy coming from the full spectrum of ideology/belief, experimentation and desire.

[@Bruderhof]

To me communism is a very specific ideology that has a certain understanding of historical progression (class conflict, dictatorship of the proletariat etc.) that didn't prove out. David Bentley Hart however uses the term when referring to the practices of the Early Church www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/opinion/sunday/christianity-communism.html

[@thewanderingamerican5412]

Communism is pretty easily defined. Anyway that begins an answer with "To me Communism...." is trying to avoid truth. And yes, you mention Martin Luther King who was a Communist and had a file a mile high at the FBI. We've just white-washed history for the sake of race relations.

[@ScorpionZam]

I'm a bigger fan of christian nationalism

[@cybernetichorizon8602]

By all means drink from a well of cyanide.

[@lawriecoombs6206]

I really enjoyed this and its very accessible.

[@jloubelle]

@mountaindew in this context, private property is theft. Taking resources away from the community and calling them yours is stealing from the community. So thou shall not steal still applies.

[@hondafreedom9329]

I love this video. So much truth.

[@PantsButNoShirt]

The Soviet Union is not a simple thing to be dismissed. It’s a complicated thing to be understood. Read, research, be curious, and undefinable.

[@Ralfrobot]

Im freaking already before you say the next sentence lol 😆 I will try listen a bit later --

[@raimiranda126]

9:31 its 6:19 not 5:19 happily it was corrected. 😊

[@dustinbrandel59]

What if the other person can work but refuses?

[@LegendKiller03000]

It shouldn’t be called capitalism. Should be called free society.

[@scottishbananaclan]

Reading list please?!

[@Mr.Giotto]

I am rich, and this is Marie

[@rikkirikki4892]

Interestingly, I have been an atheist for many (13+) years now, despite being raised in the church. Over the past couple of years (I'll be 28 in a month) I've become a socialist (more specifically some sort of traditional Marxist/Marxist-Leninist) and it's those socialist ideals that have started calling me back to Christianity and Christ. I've yet to find a Christian institution that aligns with the kind of Christianity I'm interested in, but liberation theology and Quakerism are both interesting to me. Thanks for the video!

[@RachelledelaRosa]

I had [and still have] a similar search for truth (although I considered myself Agnostic, not Atheist simply because I didn't have the evidence to support a lack of spiritual presence in the universe). We might be kindred spirits lol. Local Assembly of God churches provided the closest spiritual home and answer for me, as their primary goal is to relationally love others the way Jesus would - to introduce them to Biblical concepts. Many of their teachings come from verses like the Parable of The Lost Sheep, Matthew 18: 12-14. This made the most sense to me because if the foundation of Christianity is to 'follow, and be like Christ', Christ would approve of this style of church. Their distinction is that they don't punish followers for being lead astray, rather teach and love them back onto the right path. For me, more harsh churches don't make sense, because they push potential followers away for a lack of knowledge. Why punish and not teach? Who are we to judge other humans when we are only human ourselves? From there I've done a lot of self-study. I also recommend the book The Science of God by Gerald Schroeder. He states that a majority of criticisms against Christianity come from a lack of full understanding of the Bible and its teachings in conjunction with imperfect knowledge of reality, and he goes deep into these criticisms to find a cross over between real evidence and Biblical concepts. Spiritually, I always ask God for guidance to be pointed to poignant material in my search. I make it a point to cross-reference and I find it helpful for at least peace of mind and added willpower to keep looking. Good luck, and may the Holy Spirit guide you in the right direction[s].

[@clup3136]

I think that you have good intentions and that's awesome, but christianism is a bit incompatible with (imposed) socialism or communism: - The commandment *2* "you shall not steal" and the *10* "you shall not covet the goods of others" go quite against socialism or communism as confiscating the property of someone without their consent is theft. - *Common good and love of neighbor* : in the Free-market to get rich you have to serve the *needs* of others (with goods&servicies) better than the competition, if not, you do not see a penny. (by the way: monopolies are limitations of free competition and therefore against the free-market- in case someone thinks on these problematic situations😇-). So, if someone wants to succeed, he/she has to serve others (isn't that what christianism is about?). - *equality* : in Christianity equality is equality in human dignity, not material equality. In fact, in the _parable of talents_ the father gets angry with the son who had less money for not having worked and increased his earnings (instead he congratulates the other 2 brothers who made higher and *unequal* amounts of money). - Christ was a pacifist, communism-socialism is based on "the violent collapse of the bourgeois class" according to the Communist Manifesto. Maybe christianism is compatible with a socialist society were everyone (100%) accepts freely to live like that, but is not compatible if it's an imposed lifestyle. Hope you have a nice day! 💪

[@yoshikatsumi]

i'm not chosing to pay rent either, i have to pay rent. otherwise i will have to fear living on the streets. of course, pacifism and revolutionary socialism don't combine but you should mention that private property is also protected by violence (usually by the state) and nobody choses to be poor. but rich people have the choice to either share their wealth or make a lot of money into even more money through profiting from capitalism (investments, renting houses/apartments, marketing, advertising ect.). socialism is against blind pacifism (socialists are usually big critiqs of militarianism, of course socialist governments are very different from socialist/marxist philosophy) since it is fighting against a violent system that is based on concurrence and exploitation. it's not a conincidence that places like new york, frankfurt, los angeles or london have billionaires and homeless people living right next to each other. that's why socialists usually view violence as a necessary evil to overthrow the ruling class. but it's not like socialists are pro-war or pro-military/pro-police and don't have any moral principles. i mean, the basic common goal of all socialists is fighting poverty which is a very moral thing to do. and left-wing politics and pacifism have always co-existed, it's just that a lot of non-violent socialists were killed because they couldn't protect themselves. stalinism was terrible but also very succesful because it was violent and it didn't rely on moralism and "having the better arguements". that's one big reason why the sowjets not only could defend the revolution in their homelands, they also could defeat the nazis and free auschwitz. jesus himself was obviously a prophet or preacher and a religious teacher and wasn't talking about capitalism or socialism since they didn't even exist 2000 + years ago and are products of the industrial revolution. jesus was basically talking about moral questions and since he is (at least from a christian standpoint) not a normal human being but the son of god and therefore immortal, it makes sense that he wasn't a materialist. even though he obviously talked about helping the poor and sick and criticized greed and the rich. but he also criticized envy and put kindness and love over the struggle for material needs. which, again, is very idealistic and pretty much the opposite of what a socialist would think.

[@JayDagny]

How may I join you?

[@Bruderhof]

Hi Jay! First thing would be to visit. At this point because of coronavirus visits are being postponed but hopefully that will not last forever. You can see more details here: www.bruderhof.com/en/visit-us

[@happytraveller8953]

@@Bruderhof Good evening. Does the community in the UK have any similar videos to the ones in the US?

[@cynthiaconrad6145]

You are wonderful. I learned even more from your video, as usual!

[@DjKryx]

Im not Christian, but i know Jesus was a historic figure that definitely was a socialist.

[@clup3136]

I think it's not correct to say that christianism is compatible with socialism and incompatible with free-market capitalism. Here is why: - The commandment *2* "you shall not steal" and the *10* "you shall not covet the goods of others" go quite against socialism or communism as confiscating the property of someone without their consent is theft. And Jesus agreed with the Commandments. - *Common good and love of neighbor* : in the Free-market to get rich you have to serve the *needs* of others (with goods&servicies) better than the competition, if not, you do not see a penny. (by the way: monopolies are limitations of free competition and therefore against the free-market- in case someone thinks on these problematic situations😇-). So, if someone wants to succeed, he/she has to serve others (what's more christian than that?). - *Christ was a pacifist* , communism-socialism is based on "the violent collapse of the bourgeois class" according to the Communist Manifesto. Have a nice day! 💪🙌

[@leighmuggleton701]

The only thing is communism is not thinking about Jesus. Its about secularism the collective usually benefits those in control. That is not what Jesus was talking about.

[@thebigsteaks8752]

Marx’s critique of religion was just that it keeps people complacent in their current conditions and weakens revolutionary spirit. If you are talking about historically, it is important to realize that religion was used by czars a few years previously to brutally oppress and starve many.

[@thomaspomeroy5678]

Interesting discussion, but the Catholic Worker Movement never would have called themselves "Christian socialist". They would have been more aligned with Christian anarchism. They wanted the government not involve at all, because it takes away the responsibility to helping the poor. I would not use 'socialist" because of its connection to government control and welfare. They were very much for living in community, but not socialist.

[@cold-warfool7512]

Great video.

[@Bruderhof]

Thanks!

[@robertelias9174]

what about Wilhelm Emmanuel Ketteler? He was not socialist, but he was for worker coops as F. Lassall.

[@tequiuakanpol2062]

The church at beginning was like that because of Christ In there life this can't happen In America cause of separation of church and state Christ was pure

[@ruthlaurie-hopper3489]

Again you make sense to me. Bruderhof are highly intelligent. I don't mean that in any superior sense but my god you speak to me and make me feel I belong to this and hahahah yes jesus was a socialist. A very wise woman my mum said he was.

[@lawriecoombs6206]

Search on the Acid Communism Facebook page using hashtag #AcidChristianity

[@pusherw2861]

Great video 👍 I tried to learn something

[@jeanchristodoulou8658]

This is fascinating.

[@evergreen9388]

Thank you 👏

[@Bruderhof]

You're welcome 😊

[@Ralfrobot]

I mentioned that overlap to a sister once and her face just dropped .... 😂, I think for a moment she was dumbstruck -- maybe most of us don’t give enough time to thinking contemplatively and in a holy way ..

[@richierich252]

"The sweat of my brow will earn The bread everyday." If you notice it didn't say the church is responsible of the bread of everyday, it didn't say the government is responsible of the bread of everyday, what it did say is; you are responsible of the bread of everyday.

[@leozafirov8209]

And Jesus said "you may have this bread and fish after you work 12 hours for minimum wage, then take this drug test to see you aren't freeloaders!"

[@markkeenan1]

Only one Gospel. Nothing added not you must give Ur money to this or that but being changed so much that money is no longer loved and the love you have for others shows wen you help those in need. I'm suffering alot due to neglect and greed. If those who claim to b Saints see me struggle and do nothing it mostly due to them not being born again. They want to hold onto money that brings security. If we give out of love then it's good

[@pandaandthegecko5480]

The only legitimate king is The Lord

[@VictorLepanto]

Can voluntary communitarianism really be called socialism? Isn't socialism the state controlling property & industry? You are private individuals living together, that is simply coopertion.

[@Bruderhof]

That's a good distinction. Often when people talk about socialism I find it's more about the idea of a just society than the practical realities of a political system. Thanks - Rich

[@VictorLepanto]

@@Bruderhof Justice can only be how we, each of us, act towards others. I don't want to talk of individuals b/c that is suggestive of INDIVIDUALISM, which is connotes egotism & selfishness. I would speak of persons. The dignity of each of us as a seperate person. I don't like talk of "social justice" b/c gives license to disregard a person onto himself & to merely treat him as some broad category. Any notion of justice must begin w/ respect for the dignity of each person.

[@joraserepiravioli6119]

Socialism/ Communism hasn’t got anything to do with a state. Atleast it shouldn’t do it’s about workers ownership of production and the destruction of the state. I think people only really know about Marxist-Leninist communism which isn’t the only type of Socialism. Like Anarchism, Orthodox Marxism, Anarcho Syndacilsm and many more

[@joraserepiravioli6119]

Also I should add to this those socialists that don’t necessarily want to destroy the state but use it with *representative democracy* to redistribute wealth from rich to poor. Workers make the wealth and surplus of the capitalist classes and there are many different kinds of socialisms if you will which attempt to forge strategy and future society’s where workers can reap the full fruits of their labour

[@joraserepiravioli6119]

I think my use of “destruction of state” is only applicable to some communist goals obviously M-L doesn’t advocate for it, atleast not immediately. I probably let my own political view on the state, leak thru there sorry. But understanding that there are different types of socialism is key to understanding why Christian Socialism/ Communism is applicable as a value or set of values to address the politics you seek.

[@helengarrett6378]

I've absolutely no problem with socialism. I like living cooperatively and possessions are less important to me than universal wellbeing and pretty equal distribution of goods and status. But religion? I simply have no interest in the belief of the supernatural, in religious rituals or in Christianity as I don't identify as Christian ethnically. I don't pray. I don't think it helps achieve much. I do recognize that religion helps many, even most others. It helps them know where they fit in society and what rules to obey. It is a comfort for many. Given that I am uncomfortable with religion of any kind for myself after examining several, and even the one to which I was born, I won't criticize others for their belief as long as they don't impose their religion upon me. I believe in ethics and I hold myself and others who deal with me to a high ethical standard but I am uninterested in origin stories or the Bible, the Torah the Koran or any other religious text. I do obey civil laws, I do have an interest in science and I think socialism is a pretty good way of making sure people have a fair chance at giving and receiving the benefits of a society. I think capitalism doesn't. It concentrates too much wealth and power in too few hands. What animates me and what I believe in is democracy. I think that both socialism and capitalism can offer opportunities for oppression and greed without the freedoms guaranteed in the First Ammendment to our Constitution and the right of every person to vote and have a say in how society is run and how goods are distributed. I always ask religious people to respect my lack of interest in their religiousness and quit quoting Bible scriptures at me, and I promise not to try to interfere with their religious rituals and beliefs or disparage their faith.. But I also ask that they keep religion private and personal and not oppressively intrude on my irreligious life. Beyond that we can work together for a better life for everyone.

[@valentinewiggin7782]

I've been looking for materials that aren't "JESUS WASN'T A SOCIALIST!!!!!!!1". Thanks.

[@Sarah-vs-Hagar]

While I appreciate what you have provided, it doesnt make sense to me that you are Arminian in your theology. Like most evangelicals, you seem to pick your fights. No consistency is my issue.

[@fightintheshade]

How can you condemn Stalin and call his form of socialism “repressive”? Very judgmental.

[@1oldedog82]

All spirtual based humans look for hope and sanctuary in open social communion but why the punitive pontificating because the other Being calls their Creator by theirs belief system? Faith is faith, hope is hope is hope and charity is understanding, as in the community of the common being. We share our differences and enriched by those differences we might call 'other cultures' but we put up walls when it comes to differences in belief systems because they might disruption our psychological security blanket. Oh, so many wonderful beings we'll never meet and thry are our ancestral Sisters and Brothers. Oh.......who cares of gender variations, we must just hafe Faith, Hope and share-it-ty and thd world will start to heal from the heart in unison, like a Big Bang, in Refresh Mode. Ciao.

[@JustJoe827]

There is spiritual good, spiritual evil and spiritual evil disguised as good. True Christians know how to test the spirits in accordance to the Word of God (The Bible)

[@kevinmccauley3877]

isms are funny like that, any Ism will work if you lover God and love your neighbor as yourself

[@Andrew-gn9qp]

None of this makes any sense. The basic premise of socialism is state ownership, so you must support state ownership of the economy to be a socialist.

[@AustinKrz]

Completely wrong. That is not what Socialism means. You're confused.

[@keithlightminder3005]

Socialism and communism are a way of being together for the benefit of everyone, the state as we currently understand it is a superfluous structure. We work we eat together, we look after each other in all our ages. No longer mine and thine - our lives are lived in a library of resources we can use and hand back for someone else to use. Can I just say how impressed I am by such a great presentation of this information, grounded in love and Christ in everyone! Thank you for this!

[@bigfoot4034]

??? Read Marx then we can talk 😄

[@tomastomas5340]

Interesting

[@nederhood9192]

What is the difference between communism and socialism?

[@ihazplawe2503]

communism is a stateless, moneyless while socialism is not

[@stevehunt3994]

This is so confused! For a start, socialism is a rip off of christianity. Lets not confuse the gospel with an ísm''