Cinestill 50D | Film Exposure Limit Test

[@AlisterMalcolm]

Me: *mostly shooting colourplus because I'm poor* Ah yes, Cinestill test

[@mauricioruiz522]

You're lucky, I mostly shoot expired film :(

[@tompoynton]

You’re not missing much

[@ChairmanZhongXiNa]

I really hope Kodak releases a budget 120 film, I can't afford to shoot my Bronica anymore :'(

[@tompoynton]

@@ChairmanZhongXiNa The nearest to budget they do in 120 is probably Ektar

[@tallaganda83]

@@ChairmanZhongXiNa Cant see it happening, they seem to just increasing the prices. Better than going under I guess.

[@hugoknapp]

Would love to see a test with some motion picture film dev'd through ECN2

[@davidellinsworth3299]

It's a pity the Vision 3 stocks aren't readily available in 120

[@Seapatico]

I appreciate the tests because it helps to know the safest way to expose it when you're in unpredictable environments. As a wedding photographer, you rarely have time to meter for a perfect exposure, so knowing a film's usable latitude is very helpful

[@jakeoliveira5086]

I really love this series. In this particular case it's pretty hilarious to me because i'm trying to imagine a scene where its even possible to overexpose 50 iso film by that many stops without a tripod.

[@flmmkr]

I really like it (because I'm a fan of the halations), pretty nice for daylight portraits, always Shooting it in bright Sunlight at ISO 12 (+2 Stops) wide open (F2) which results in 1/100-1/400 shutter Speed ;)

[@gateway833]

You must live inside draculas castle

[@xjamesramos]

I've shot Cinestill 800T several times and did get a roll of 50D. Excited to see the exposure test.

[@F9FCJ429]

Couple of other observations from my home processing experience: Freestyle and FPP are both hard to beat on pricing if you’re not afraid of remjet. Leaving the stuff in place immediately gets rid of any concerns about halation. Out of curiosity I have processed vision3 in both DIYECN2 and C41. I can correct the C41 version to look very similar to ECN2. My experience with film developed in ECN2 is that the color seems to snap magically into place with very little tweaking. Also I see less crossover especially with the 250 and 500 speed film. To be fair that could be because I’m typically trying to shoot the 500 speed film hand held at night and because of that I’m starting with under exposed shadows. I’m not going to get into CS marketing, as far as I’m concerned they’re bringing a product to the masses that would otherwise be out of reach and that is a good thing. If you are more adventurous then you can find Vision3 ready to go or in bulk reels. Hit up a Google for Film Photography Project Develop C 41 at home and you’ll see how easy it is to deal with remjet. No baking soda no sandpaper no dynamite, the stuff just comes right off. It does make plastic reels ugly so I sacrificed three of my plastic reels using them only for remjet. You’ll still need to wash them with detergent and a toothbrush between uses, the discoloration is cosmetic it doesn’t affect anything. But you do not want to let it build up super thick because it will cause your film to bind. DO be sure to rinse reels completely after washing, you don’t want to cross contaminate your chemistry with detergent. I understand developing at home is not for everybody and for those people without the space, time, or inclination, CS allows access to this unique film. Just don’t get too hung up about remjet. Remember, people used to tell us we couldn’t process color film at home either, and yet we do.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Always a wealth of knowledge, Tim. Thank you. I'll be moving into a new creative space/studio soon and looking forward to finally having a space to develop my film!

[@autodidact537]

@@KyleMcDougall It's a shame that you couldn't do a comparison between CS50D processed in C-41 & Vision 3 50D processed in ECN2 using identical cameras, lighting, lenses & subject.

[@Rocking_J_Studio]

After your last video, I went out and found a Pentax 645N with a 75mm f2.8 to pick up and add to my collection. I've always been a Mamiya fan, but I'm quickly becoming a Pentax fan for medium format. Your channel is quickly moving up my list of favorite, especially for film photography! Love your work!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, John. Glad you're enjoying the Pentax! One of my favourites.

[@Ty-Braun]

I find this series really interesting but personally don't get to shoot film as much as I would like, mostly because of the cost of doing so. I would LOVE to see an exposure test for your Fuji X100V. See how well the raw files are able to retain detail vs the Fuji jpgs. Would be cool to see how they compare to both consumer and pro film stocks. Regardless, keep up the content. Really love your channel.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, Tyler. I'll keep that in mind.

[@behindeachfilmgrain]

I was never a NORITSU fan myself just because of the results I would get back from my local film lab and as soon as they switched over to the Fujifilm SP3000 Frontier that I started to like my images. Great review as your per usual🙏🏽

[@moviebufftexas5277]

I always admire how kind you can be in these film latitude reviews. I bought some 50D and 800T a couple of years ago (2 of each) and as I always do with new film I tried some experiments. You found pretty much exactly what I did when I shot it. However my reaction after developing them was pretty much laden with improper language and grumblings about wastes of money rather than Canadian politeness :) I will try to say something nice about it. Umm... I suppose consistently bad is still consistent.

[@minecrafthERCULES]

I really like this format! Maybe you could give some exposure readings for some key features/ the extremes in the scene. That way we could get a better understanding of the contrast as well as the dynamic range of the film/scene.

[@kyraskombinant]

What good timing, I just got an order of 50D and 800T in the mail today. These tests are always so appreciated to understand how different stocks respond. Also making me want to pick up a scanner to be able to tweak dng/tiffs more vs just dealing with the jpgs from the lab.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Glad this helped ya!

[@graydeotto2820]

Id love to see some velvia or provia 100 tests next!

[@KyleMcDougall]

I'll keep it in mind.

[@peterfarr9591]

+1 :-) Provia for sure!

[@tallaganda83]

Velvia 50 would be a fast video ;-)

[@danielseale9636]

Love these tests! You're an awesome educator and well-spoken

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, Daniel.

[@Brause_Market]

Dude stop explaining yourself, these tests are super duper perfect. Keep on going. I always come pack to the pro 400h limit video and check the look of the stops ; )

[@KyleMcDougall]

I appreciate that!

[@Al_Bx]

The Coolscan results are GOOD. The lab results have their colors all over the place when the coolscan keeps it mostly blue (nothing that can't be overcome with some minor LR tweak). The film itself handles overexposure well I think (IF you don't mind the color shift and the helation), none of the whites gets blown out and swallows details. Maybe you should ask the lab a re-scan, to see if there is any change or if they can manage the color shift first-hand.

[@KylerSteele]

Wow! I actually like the lab overexposed ones. I feel if I’m using a special film like 50d I’d like to emphasize it’s unique characteristics. NLP is great cause it takes advantage of the flexibility of film and does try to give you a nice scan whereas the lab gives you a more true rendering. So I feel like from this test if you want true to life then go iso 50 with NLP scan and if you want more film characteristics then go with overexposure and a lab scan! Thanks for this!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Cheers, Kyler.

[@АлексейДолидович-ц9г]

Thank you very much! Great videos, don't listen to people who don't understand why you are doing this! The only channel with such informative vids🔥

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thank you.

[@mitchellvaneijk1855]

I don't even shoot film but love your videos. Especially the ones where you roadtrip. You are a great filmmaker. I am really looking forward to videos like that but from the UK.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks. UK roadtrip film is in the works.

[@luchinooliveros2469]

I would love to see a latitude text but done in ECN2 process

[@scottalanphotography]

I just shot a couple rolls of this film. One roll I was pleased with, the other I wasn't. I wasn't sure if it was my fault or the labs until I watched your video. I definitely underexposed most images on my second roll as they just looked nasty. I'm glad I came across this video.

[@Kameratzas]

Very interesting! I think overexposing this film could actually be a plus if you go out with a tripod at night to take shots that include lots of lights, if exaggerated halation is what you’re looking for. Thanks for doing this test, I might have to try some night shots down town :)

[@NandR]

I just got some in 35mm to try out. Glad to see this.

[@riswanc]

Hy kyle, always love to watch the exposures test, it is quite informative to my usage on the fields how far a film can go

[@brandonlook]

Interesting video. Thanks. Like you, I've come to the conclusion that I don't really like Cinestill 50D that much at all. I *did* have halfway decent results when I pushed 50D 2 stops; I liked the increased contrast and punchier colors. Something to keep in mind perhaps.

[@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel]

Your scanned images are definitely much better. Not only the highlights look better but also all colors. With NLP you can ask yourself if lab scans are still good in 2020 or if the technology itself has developed further.

[@KyleMcDougall]

All depends which scanner you have as well, and also the size of the film.

[@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel]

@@KyleMcDougall Imagine a GFX 100 + GF 120mm F4 Macro + the automatic scanner from cameradactyl. This combination could beat any normal scanner from the 90s with NLP. 😀

[@georgebirddrums]

In the UK you can get an ECN-2 developing kit from Nik&Trick website. They also have pre rolled motion picture film with the rem jet still on for real cheap

[@KyleMcDougall]

Ah, yes. Will definitely be checking that out!

[@georgebirddrums]

@@KyleMcDougall Love the channel. Always great content

[@DevonChristopherAdams]

Just finished a roll. I think I have another. I don't love it. It has sat in the fridge for 3 years since I got it, but yeah. Now to develop it. Maybe I need to trade the other one for Portra or Proo 400H.

[@johngskewes]

Hi Kyle - Really great episode. The other day I developed a roll Vision3 250D, purchased from FFP. I listened with interest to your comments about halation, and the Cinestill removal of the REMJET. On my roll I had at least one frame where halation was pronounced (very much like fringing in digital photos - something I have not seen in film,) in a leafless oak tree silhouetted against a blue sky. I can share the negative with you if you want - it may (or may not) disprove the idea that removing the remjet layer allows for this effect. At any rate, this a is a great series and helps me in my understanding of film. Thank you.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Interesting to hear that, John. I plan to pick some up soon to test out!

[@johngskewes]

@@KyleMcDougall Actually two negatives so the same sort of flaw - in both cases, bare trees against blue sky. Peace.

[@sednasix6608]

Kyle, look into Silbersalz35 if you haven't heard of them yet. Another cine film stock converted for 35mm still use. Actually it's Kodak Vision3 series of film stocks. You can order from them, shoot, then send back for development WITH the jet layer intact using the True Cinefilm ECN2 process. They have a whole gallery of stills dedicated to all the different film speed stocks and the images look like they're straight out of cinematic films. Possibly the only company that is doing this right now and I can't wait to order my batch and shoot and get them developed in ECN2.

[@KyleMcDougall]

I have heard of them. The samples look incredible. I'll definitely be picking some up!

[@pushingfilm]

Sacrificing Cinestill for the greater good... Thanks Kyle! That halation really is a pest in daylight (in my opinion)

[@tompoynton]

I can imagine a lot of the rich boi instagram hypebeasts loving the 5 stops underexposed shots lol

[@brycepinson8641]

I'd like to put in a request for Delta 100 and Velvia 100. Thank you for these!

[@shugoakatsuka6588]

I had been waiting for this, thanks a lot Kyle :)

[@KyleMcDougall]

No problem!

[@BIbiVstf3sx]

I shot 50d a few times, although i really tried to like this film, the colors and white balance just tend to become too crazy for my taste....

[@F9FCJ429]

When scanning software goes on autopilot it’s basically trying for an auto white balance. With that in mind I wonder if the apparent color shifts on the overexposed images are not a result of the auto white balance trying to correct out the reddish halation? You can force NLP into using the same develop settings across multiple frames, but even without doing that I suspect NLP, especially 2.2, is flat out doing a better job at default settings than the Noritsu Controller.

[@KyleMcDougall]

For sure. That's what it looks like, Tim. Only reason I can think of why there would be a difference between the two. Looks like NLP is doing a better job at correction.

[@seanyonstreet4260]

I love these film exposure series and they are very helpful!. I have been listening to your podcast lately(I really enjoyed them!!!!!!) and today I bought many books, especially, from the photographers that you interviewed. so Thank you!! Can you please recommend some photography podcasts which mostly talks about photography projects and not gears? Also tell us more about books or photographers you like?

[@HighHatOG]

I’ve seen some beautiful photos taken on 120 Cinestill 50d and they looked like they were taking the photos around golden hour and got not only usable but beautiful photos. I thought 50 was supposed to be used in broad daylight on a bright sunny day

[@KyleMcDougall]

I've seen some really nice results as well. Need to shoot some more of it in the future.

[@PiratePhD]

Could the color shifts be from the increased amount of reddish halation and the scanner trying to compensate?

[@randallstewart175]

More likely the color shifts, mainly green, result from processing in C-41 instead of ECN-2. When shot and processed as intended, the Vision 3 films yield extremely accurate color, as you might expect given that they are intended for commercial use in the movie industry.

[@mattparkin7224]

Were these test shots taken the UK? Definite 80s UK suburb style houses going on in the background

[@rundfunk9055]

He moved the UK not too long ago actually

[@KyleMcDougall]

You got it.

[@mattparkin7224]

@@KyleMcDougall do you have any photos you've taken around suburbs like this? I really struggle with inspiration around where I live (VERY similar looking area from what I can tell) and would have thought your outsider perspective probably produces some really interesting viewpoints on this sort of thing

[@youngminyune8171]

It’s amazingly informative. Thank you, Kyle!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Solertcore]

Do the Budget films like Fuji C200 and Color Plus 200

[@elliotwan3401]

Great video! Can I ask how you scanned your images? I can't find a profile for Cinestill 50D on Silverfast and was wondering which film profile you would recommend using. Thanks!

[@KyleMcDougall]

I used Vuescan and scanned as a RAW DNG, then converted with Negative Lab Pro in LR.

[@mynamehasspacesinit8687]

The best Silverfast settings I found for CineStill 50D were: Vendor: Kodak Type: T400 ISO/ASA: CN And make sure the CCR box is unchecked You might still need to do some color adjustments in post, but I found that this one works the best.

[@alexiscuarezma]

what I don't understand from Cinestill is that they rate Vision 3 500T as 800 b/c of the removal of the remjet layer lets more light pass through therefore it gives it a slightly higher speed. If they're doing the same with Vision 3 50d, shouldn't they be rating it at 100 or around 80?? Therefore if shot at box speed, it's technically overexposed?

[@dcchong8102]

Appreciate all you are doing

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thank you.

[@VariTimo]

The 50D really doesn’t like being developed in C41. From what I’ve heard it’s at least as good if not better than Portra 400 when developed in ECN2. I suggest you shoot Portra 160 at 80 ASA to get cleaner results. And NLP give you all the options, you can get a finished image that’s matched to look like a lab scan or a print and you can get steigt Linear and even Log conversions. So it’s up to you how you use NLP.

[@TheWatdachtjedan]

The less holation in the one stop under makes me wonder if by pushing a stop would work well... 🧐

[@anthonymoreno894]

TBH I really struggled to see the halation. It might have been lost in the KZbin transcode, or trying to watch on my phone at 720, or I just don’t know what I’m supposed to be looking for.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Probably best to watch on a computer. It's there.

[@Zetaphotography]

Off topic. I was monitoring my Kickstarter pledge for Cinema Grade. Is that you walking in the desert shooting video? On topic. Yes, your videos do help me

[@KyleMcDougall]

Not that I know of, hah!

[@carltanner9065]

i wonder how it would've turned out had you got the film processed in its native ECN2? How the latitude with over/under exposure would turn out.

[@KyleMcDougall]

I wonder as well.

[@carltanner9065]

@@KyleMcDougall Might be worth giving it a try, though I don't think too many places handle the process. Might cost a bit more than normal.

[@noahdmnc]

I've been waiting for this one

[@m00dawg]

I wonder how much of the shifts are due to the cross processing / maybe the lack of remjet. I've seen a few articles that seem to show Vision 3 tends to have more dynamic range but this is when using ECN2 chemistry. The few times I tried Vision3 in ECN2 I felt like it did have a lot of flexibility but was pretty flat when scanning. Which makes sense since it's meant to be color graded. I'm eager to try it again now that the QWD Labs ECN2 kit is quite affordable.

[@KyleMcDougall]

That's the thing... Kodak motion picture film stock is incredible, and very flexible. I feel like with ECN it would be very different.

[@mathieurabary]

​ @Kyle McDougall ECN-2 Development actually brings more latitude to the film! I did a similar video inspired by your videos on my channel where I also test Cinestill 50D haha. I found out that I could get usable results from -3 stops to +3/4 stops. Pushing Cinestill 50D +3 stops is definitely a thing to try out as well. Keep these exposure test videos coming Kyle! Love learning from you :)

[@zguy95135]

It is being cross processed, so craziness is to be expected. It's such a nice film developed in ECN2 though.

[@hybridvarauder1594]

This Kind of Videos are helpful as hell!!

[@manmohitmatharu3418]

Have you ever done a test like this but with adjusting the ISO over/under instead of adjusting the F stop?

[@KyleMcDougall]

That wouldn't actually be any different as changing the ISO only changes the meter reading. You would still need to use either the shutter speed or aperture to change the exposure.

[@manmohitmatharu3418]

@@KyleMcDougall Thank you for clarifying!

[@orangebetsy]

My pentax k1000 has iso 64 and iso 32. Would i be underexposing the frame some fraction of a stop if i set CineStill 50D to iso 64? What fraction would that be? How about setting the metering to iso 100? I'm new to it so i wanna check with you folks in the know. Perhaps the most important question from me is: What to set the K1000 to to meter the 50D? 64? What are the corresponding numbers for the two dots between iso 32 and iso 64?

[@jonathanbryce2813]

great video! i only tried the film once and really didnt like it at all! It turn into beautiful black and white images..... at a big price tag....

[@sarova2000]

I’m confused, what’s the difference between doing this and pushing your film? Why if you do this you can expose these images (of the same roll, i’m asuming) differently and if you push your film you do it in the same way for all the pictures of the roll?

[@ryanoliveira9453]

Because when you push the film, you're compensating the time of development for the entire roll, so your exposure doesn't change from frame to frame (and the ISO rating has to be the same). If you rate the film at a higher ISO, and compensating in the development time, you're PUSHING (for example, from 100 to 400), and if you didn't compensate the development time, everything would be underexposed. When you over or under expose, and develop normally, you're changing the exposure of only one frame, so that's why some images can be over/under in the SAME roll. Pushing is compensating the loss of light through a longer development time, so underexposing 2 stops (100 to 400) and THEN developing for longer prevents this underexposure, and allows for shooting at a higher ISO. Hope that this helped you.

[@eladtall]

interesting to try this test but with the corect developing process ECN 2

[@joonamato]

I like 800T a lot more than 50D. I feel like 50D doesn't hve enough personality for its high price

[@harrisoncable5885]

Please do provia 100f

[@javiersalguero1896]

I thought you will try it on a night time, doesn't make more sense?

[@KyleMcDougall]

50D isn't just a film for night. A lot of people shoot it in the day.

[@javiersalguero1896]

@@KyleMcDougall Thanks for comment! I didn't know that, i'd just use different stock for daylight i guess! keep the hard work!

[@TheGameCalledReality]

you should try shooting some kodak vision3 250D!

[@KyleMcDougall]

I'd like to. I've shot it in 16mm, but not in a still camera.

[@justinsisson2465]

Where can we get a shirt?

[@KyleMcDougall]

www.contactsheetpodcast.com

[@jonasderbinich1657]

Merci beaucoup😍

[@familygonzcartwright]

I woul love to see these tests but with real Kodak vision 3 50d

[@rolloffilm1996]

or kodak 250D

[@familygonzcartwright]

@@rolloffilm1996 it would be nice if he did both. I said 50d because cinestill 50d is supposed to be that.

[@AsRmNinemilli9]

I am here for some help, i bought a roll of cinestill 50D and i have been shooting at 200 ASA for the first 12pics i am not sure how will come out so now i have switched it to 50 ASA do i need a tripod for this? Thanks in advance, btw i shoot with a 35mm canon ae1 program with a niftyfifty lens.

[@KyleMcDougall]

You would need a tripod for any shutter speeds slower than 1/60th of a second. That's when you're likely to get blur from camera shake.

[@mrca2004]

I camera scan and convert color with neg lab pro and the results are outstanding and a less than $3 a roll worst case compared to $25 mailing to the lab with a 2 or 3 week turnaround. No offense to the lab folks, no one knows better my vision of the shot than me. I'm going to try a 400D roll in c41. Oh, my sous vide machine I use to precisely control chemical temperature just made the best corned beef then best chicken breasts and the most tender medium rare steak from top to bottom with a nice crust from a 1 minute sear on each side... same with chicken breasts. It's an amazing multi tasker.

[@Biosynchro]

CineStill sounded like a great idea. But when you see the results it makes zero sense. If it were cheap, sure, why not. But it isn't. I would never usually say this about a film product, but CineStill is a film that we don't need.

[@MJLyon100]

I really want to find a project that allows me to justify going bankrupt to shoot some rolls of Cinestill film

[@joeycovington4681]

Thanks, don’t listen to the trolls.

[@mpk33]

Thanks for showing me that I don't particularly want to shoot this film stock at that fairly ludicrous price point. I have a roll of 800T that I bought in 2018 when on holidays in the US that i'll use on the obligitory gas station at night at some point, but then our relationship definitely ends...lol

[@dmitrybelyakov]

shh, it's called trousers here ;)

[@KyleMcDougall]

😂

[@tingo2123]

first