Citroen C1 engine Tapping, Engine fault diagnose and strip down.

[@gavinhollyer4640]

Exactly the same here. 2009 Toyota AYGO with 75k on the clock bought from auction with an engine rattle. Run just fine but a terrible metallic knocking. After watching this video, a quick compression check highlighted an issue on No. 1 cylinder. Whipped the sump off and hey presto there was the telltale chip from the bottom of No. 1 cylinder and what looked like a bent conrod. Lots of wrestling later and with the engine still in place, piston and conrod have been removed and it looks exactly the same as this video. Not sure I’d have believed it without watching this. Many thanks for taking the time to document your progress for others to benefit.

[@tuanla1879]

How much pressure did you read from 1st cylinder?

[@gavinhollyer4640]

@@tuanla1879 I can’t recall the figures but cylinder 2 & 3 were very similar, cylinder 1 was noticeably less.

[@tuanla1879]

@@gavinhollyer4640 Thanks for your reply. "Noticeable less" is about 50-ish psi or greater? My reading was not reliable and the different is about 25psi. I will have another ready later this week.

[@gavinhollyer4640]

@@tuanla1879 Cylinder 2 & 3 were reading within a few psi of each other, very consistent, but cylinder 1 was only about 20psi lower. Not a massive amount but it was obvious that something was different in cylinder 1 because 2 & 3 were giving very consistent results.

[@tuanla1879]

@@gavinhollyer4640 Thank you. Will check mine and post the result here.

[@TheNobbynoonar]

I suspected a sticking valve or a worn camshaft lobe. I never would have guessed a bent con rod. You have a lot more patience and positive attitude then most (including me) Thank you for taking the times to make this video.

[@jjmmjj9999]

how do you know about vales and camshaft lobes but would have never thought literal rod knock would be the rod.... have a laugh

[@kk-qy4sc]

So glad to have seen this vid/info as a new Aygo owner all relevant info is much appreciated! Note to self - be very careful in flooded areas AND do not jet wash the engine bay either.

[@MMD-z6z]

and dont fix anything that is not broken 😆

[@steveapt1]

Possibly water sucked in. It doesn't compress so will bend the con rod. My Peugeot 107 (same engine) is on 199,250 miles still running great!

[@Steve-bo6ht]

Looks like evidence of Hydro lock water ingestion my daughters second C1 suffered the very same issue, even though the air intake is up high she'd managed to get water into the engine through flood water and limped home, stripped the engine and found the very same bent con rod on No1 and damage to cylinder bottom wall. Managed to get the block machined and to this day has 108.000 miles on the clock and runs with no audibly sounds on knocking.

[@richardmounfield7822]

Totally agree this looks like a classic case of flood damage something has to give with water in the cylinder and conrod is the weakest link.

[@techtinkerin]

Good reply very helpful 😎👍

[@khalidacosta7133]

Bet your daughter is glad she has a dad who is mechanically inclined.

[@chrisdunkley8055]

First class diagnosis, look at the oil feed to this tensioner-1/8-3mm hole easily blocks up and your tensioner was not working, most likely cause of the bent con rod the the defective tensioner. But excellent work!! well done!

[@30days1body9]

Greatest video quality i have seen for this engine and tremendous patience. Many thanks for doing this Dave. Please do continue doing more videos on this engine e.g. repairs, fault finding, maintenance. Keep it up!

[@stylianosdeligiannis6662]

Fantastic video! 10out of 10! I hope to rebuild the engine in the future!

[@daveayerstdavies]

An injector stuck open can cause fuel to puddle in the cylinders enough to cause a hydrolock and bend a rod, as can ingestion of water. With no other indications of mechanical failure, that would be my diagnosis.

[@phoebelala]

Great video, thanks for this. As others have said, looks like classic flood damage. The fact there are others with the same issue is indicative of more of these cars getting driven through floods.

[@KFM330]

Just bought a 2016 C1 with a slight noise similar to this! Great Video, thanks Dave. I can now investigate the noise.

[@MrOlcaymeral]

Perfect video and explantation. Thank you. I have same engine ( peugeot 107 ) and almost the same noise.

[@betacam235]

My 2010 Aygo has some pinking under load....these cars are 'economy tuned' so rather high geared, it's easy to find yourself pulling away in too high a gear hence pinking. This hydro-locking, is it all through water ingress via the filter? Nothing to do with head gasket failure?

[@Alf-Garnish]

Great footage,. For strange engine noises, i use a stethoscope to try and narrow the area down, Anyway i trust you refit the new timing chain kit over to the replacement engine

[@wiganer9912]

There was a recall of some 2010 models for conrod bearing shells, maybe other years were affected?

[@chrisrag1346]

Wow that was really interesting. who would have thought con rod................. I was rooting for ya' at the end as to what it was causing the knocking noise

[@Lonewolf_rider]

Great footage Dave,thanks for the effort! Is there any chance there will be more of this in the future? Especially the 1KR-FE engine?

[@LondonG0708]

Is it possible to remove the cams with leaving the chaun tension in and chain and side cover on i ask because i just want to replace the valve seals. Tia

[@fellowyorkshireman2391]

Could pre-ignition because of the slack chain eventually cause the conrod to bend due to a mixture of overheating and valve slap caused by pinking?

[@user-bj1hg8fk3n]

No

[@Alex-qm6ig]

Awesome video. My engine ticks similarly, but not as loud. Will not do anything about it until it gets worse :)

[@1artonpower]

Had some noise on same engine after the mechanic did an oil change. Turned out he put 10w40 instead of 5w30. Yes, the right oil and the noise's gone.

[@crpth1]

I bet more than 90% of engine "noise" complains. Would be swiftly solved with a decent synthetic oil and filter change. I've seen it countless times during the past 3 decades! Just this past week I've seen it twice! About this video, excellent. Damn that's a LOT of patience to look for the culprit. Kudos for that! ;-) Cheers

[@alessandroserrao9422]

@@crpth1 The oil isn't the culprit. ·EG-0096T-0714 "KR Engine knocking noise" (23.07.2014, piston set and cylinder block replacement: 11401-40041 ⇒ 11401-40060, 11401-0Q011 ⇒ 11401-0Q030, 11401-40050 ⇒ 11401-40070)

[@crpth1]

@@alessandroserrao9422 - You're referring to the well known issue of these series engines. ;-) Please refer to the OP text. Different subject, in spite of being a noise. Oil type and quality are in fact the main responsible for engine complains (in general). As mentioned I've seen it too many times in the past 3 decades. In fact little more than 35 years! People tend to look at the cheap oil price tag alone. The real payment will come later down the line... Don't even mention the one's that skip oil changes to "save" money! ;-)

[@gavjlewis]

That engine is filthy for 40k miles. Probably never had its oil changed since new. Cylinder one always get oil starvation first. Was the oil control ring still moveable on piston one? Bet it was stuck fast. One of the first signs of oil starvation on these. The more the piston rubs and wears the cylinder liner down the more off angle it gets until it bends the conrod. So I think lack of any maintenance killed the engine, rather than a failure of the engine itself.

[@aunreza]

@@gavjlewis my 1kr has suffered the same fate. The first cylinder has more deposits on it and she's consuming about 150ml of oil in 1000kms. There's blue smoke on hard revving after warming up and a lot of piston slap in these cold winters.

[@aleksandergjengst782]

got the ssame issue..just a bit softer tikking..tnx for graet vid !! it sounds like a diesel !! thank GOD its not the timing !! got me a bit worried there !! i saw a video where they was testing a brand new c1 in a car testing show and it made the exact same noice..they said it was because its a 3 cylinder :O

[@juancronje-daniels8039]

Mine does as well, do I need to replace it as it doesn't really bother me and done decent mileage without breaking down

[@sourpatchpink8863]

This video was so helpful

[@thadeusschultheis6909]

Good job👍Gute Arbeit👍

[@gtibruce]

I cant help thinking that this engine didn't come out of the factory like that to reach 40,000 miles to show its ugly head. At a much later stage this little engine has been overfilled with oil to the point that the said piston has drawn up enough oil to have caused it to hydraulic and that's why the con rod has bent. I've just bought an Aygo and it was a quart over the right level. But in this video case it could have been a lot more. You can sometimes get away with over filling depending on how much and just slow driving around town till the engine slowly gets rid of it.

[@YTcolinT]

Just had this knocking problem arise on startup after a drive without issue, oil level was at the required level (low) and everything else in order! 44k miles Aygo.

[@mysurlytrucker7510]

Brilliant well done, I see a lot of these cars with a ticking noise or clacking noise, I think its just a bit of a weak conrod issue, when put under load rather than changing down on steeper hills? Or could it be the firing a little earlier than it should opposing and putting the piston therefore the conrod under to much force when it's trying to come up.

[@fellowyorkshireman2391]

How much did the chain set cost?

[@chrisp4899]

Been through a flood ? Maybe injested water through the air box

[@tomthompson7400]

10:57 is that not a dent in the crown of the piston , or its it a trick of the light.

[@baronlowie]

Could it have sucked water in at some point? Just a thought.

[@boblolo3977]

Waterlock? Maybe water somehow got in.

[@donaldasayers]

Having bought the bits for the timing, I'd rebuild her. As for the cause, I can only think that she has been massively over revved.

[@thebeardyone]

The people punting the piston slap cause here and elsewhere on KZbin, are talking about a light metallic sound, whereas your engine was making a clear 'clacking' noise, like mine. I notice that you didn't mention a 'stethoscope' test to help narrow down the area that the sound was coming from - might that have helped? Thanks for the well-presented video diary, it's been really helpful.

[@AutoFreak10]

Well that escalated quickly 😳

[@argonaut6386]

Great informative video. My son is looking to get one of these as his first car. The one he's looking is a 2014 which has done 35k miles. Are they fairly reliable? I tend to do my own repairs like yourself and they look relatively easy to work on for a modernish car. Thanks again

[@philipscott1128]

This engine is known to be very reliable. The C1/Aygo/107 are very simple cars in comparison to many modern cars. Any problems are well documented on KZbin & the forums with a lot of support & fixes published too

[@sammyranesesgrospe7361]

I just bought yesterday for my son, C1 has now 97k on the clock with no engine problem.

[@argonaut6386]

@@sammyranesesgrospe7361 Thanks for taking the time to reply. He actually bought it and has been driving all over. I actually really enjoy driving it too lol

[@volt8684]

I bought my daughter one at19k miles, 10 yrs later not a thing ever gone wrong but engine has always sounded ticky when cold. As soon as warm it goes. Doesnt consume any oil, does 60mpg and now done 100 k and going strong

[@BampFilm]

Any updates Dave??

[@Andrew-ry7iw]

Excellent video

[@despoticmusic]

Mine has sounded like a bucket of nails since the day I bought it new. But not as bad as yours!!!

[@aleksandrzinkevics1253]

at what milage please and what oil in it? mine 110k run sweet.

[@davyboy888]

Great video. Sadly that's likely to have been the result of water ingestion causing a hydro lock :(

[@lucyferek]

Client just rolled in with similar problem, driver states when we were on automatic csr wash engine started to knock. Well did turn off the engine? What for?......

[@ssfikas745]

I have 1kr-fe with 215k km & i don't have problems.

[@volt8684]

Fantastic engines but very ticky

[@Tyerell]

Fuel injector issue?

[@ivanpetrov2280]

Well done 👏 mate

[@sugu39]

Well done

[@SuperVitz]

sucked in water?

[@EnergyXyz]

Leaking injector?

[@micheals1992]

What would cause a bent Conrod?

[@raymondk2202]

hydro lock

[@gameoveryeah412]

Piston slap ?

[@LondonG0708]

I think these cars run better on 5w 50 from my experience also i think these car were made with the obsession of being to eco friendly with the loose piston rings for less friction so they thought 5w30 or 5w 40 was good so less effort for the engine to push the oil around to make it more efficient but then in turn causes more problems in the long run i put 5w 50 in mine and it is more quiet and runs way better.

[@automotivepaint5664]

5w50 убьёт двигатель!

[@mehmetturgutozdogan5651]

Videonun devamı gelsin motor düzeldi mi

[@GucciHughes]

I'd put money on overfilled with oil as the cause

[@user-ic7mv6bj4w]

I had this noise on my Sirion witht he same engine. At first it sounds like the plastic swirl flaps in some plastic inlet manifolds. Topped up the oil and the noise is gone.

[@EppingForest304]

👍

[@volt8684]

Don’t think this is answer on general ticking as every car seems to do it. Cant all have this fault maybe just yours

[@wynandgardiner]

Small end seized oil problems

[@willdatsun]

driven through flood perhaps

[@micheals1992]

What about piston slap? These engines are known for it

[@MarkBannister-e3b]

Sounds like it it got water in and hydrolict it

[@danhayes3546]

Flood damaged car or overfilled with oil but probably a flood damaged car

[@jameswhitbread7173]

I'd have probably just scrapped the engine these engines are cheap on ebay

[@goodfodder]

weird

[@alessandroserrao9422]

Piston slap. Known problem in the 1kr-fe. Bad bad engine engineering.

[@donaldasayers]

Most of those engines last hundreds of thousands of miles, they are one of the best engineered engines around. Yes with lack of maintenance you get piston slap, maintain your engine and use the right oil.

[@alessandroserrao9422]

@@donaldasayers No. Piston slap on 1kr-fe toyota engines is present also in new engines. Maintenance doesn't mean nothing. And there's a tsb from toyota: ·EG-0096T-0714 "KR Engine knocking noise" (23.07.2014, piston set and cylinder block replacement: 11401-40041 ⇒ 11401-40060, 11401-0Q011 ⇒ 11401-0Q030, 11401-40050 ⇒ 11401-40070) toyota-club.net/files/faq/19-10-20_faq_kr-engine_eng.htm

[@alessandroserrao9422]

@@donaldasayers Also 1kf-fe is a badly engineered engine: Piston slap is a well-known phenomenon. Since the defect appeared even on the new cars (so non-roundness was a consequence of production defects but not wear), it was treated by warranty-covered replacement of the cylinder block and pistons/rings (mentioned in one of the service campaigns). Usually, an engine with such a defect can operate for a long time, and it is more economical to replace it with a second-hand engine after a complete failure. • Cylinder liner and piston scratches (the sound effects are accompanied by an impressive oil consumption). In Southeast Asia, the repairers prefer to rebore the cylinder for 0.5 oversize pistons, without cylinder liners replacement. • Piston ring stuck due to carbon deposits, timing chain wear, water pump leaks are commonplace, and KR is no exception. • Mainly due to EGR (with a little "help" by the crankcase ventilation), the entire air intake pathes, valves, seats and combustion chambers are reliably supplied with soot. Also, in terms of the amount of solid deposits and oil sludge in the crankcase, under the head cover, in the separator etc. - KR engine is one of the dirtiest engines of Toyota corporation. • The imbalance of the 3-cylinder engine only partially hides by its modest mass and developed mounts. However, with any deviation from the normal operation or idle speed dropping, it turns into a shaker. The recommendations are traditional - flushing the throttle and "re-adaptation", then cleaning of the intake duct, then mounts replacing, etc.

[@donaldasayers]

@@alessandroserrao9422 Don't know what engine you are referring to but the CityBug engine has cast in cast iron liners that cannot be replaced.

[@alessandroserrao9422]

@@donaldasayers Toyota 1kr-fe that's the one in the video. No you have to replace the entire cylinder block as per tsb ·EG-0096T-0714 "KR Engine knocking noise" (23.07.2014, : 11401-40041 ⇒ 11401-40060, 11401-0Q011 ⇒ 11401-0Q030, 11401-40050 ⇒ 11401-40070) that is really a bad engineered engine