Cliffe Classics #5 - Give Me an Answer

[@RazoJ20]

Its so refreshing to see an entire crowd of young people paying close attention to two people while not being distracted by cellphones.

[@jceedunsin4972]

you should also watch the latest videos, it's the same thing

[@valkyrieloki1991]

Good times.

[@manda1370]

Hi! Off topic.. but I just wanted to say, God loves you dearly! He sent His Son, Jesus to die on the cross for everyone's sin, so that we could be forgiven. He lived a sinless life, and because the wages of sin is death, and in Him was no sin, He resurrected on the third day!

[@saintpaulofyoutube4416]

"I sin because I doubt God" I never heard it put that way. Beautiful.

[@peterberr3888]

If sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) and the law is summarised by loving others (say based on love for God, matt 22:40) and fulfilled through love (rom 13:8-10/ Gal 5;14), then all sin ultimately comes from not loving God properly. We cannot love God correctly even with the help of the Spirit (1 John 1:10). While alive we will have sort of an attachment here especially in our personal will. Tozer asked, would you like to be invaded by the spirit of another regardless of how beneficial and well intentioned that character may be? All the best.

[@kristijanpavlovic8605]

Most people who doubt God do not even believe such a thing as sin exists. We could also say that we sin because we have faith in the error.

[@bonnie43uk]

@@kristijanpavlovic8605 It certainly exists in the minds of Christians Kristijan, that is clear.. it seems to play a big part in the whole Christianity worldview.. I have often been told the only reason I reject Christianity is because I like to sin. What sins do you think I've committed today.. theft? rape? lying? .. have you ever found anything I've ever said to you as a known lie Kristijan? I'd like to think I've always been honest in my dialogues with you, despite our differences.

[@kristijanpavlovic8605]

@@bonnie43uk Hi Tom, I think it's best we continue our conversation on a thread we started it and not to have two parallel discussion about the same thing. I would just say that not only Christians believe in sin. That being said, sin does not exist in the mind but rather in the soul of the individual. I don't know what sins you've committed today, as I do not know you nor do I keep records of what you do in your personal life, but God does. I don't know if you've lied to me, we haven't had the proper opportunity to discuss things long enough yet.

[@kristijanpavlovic8605]

@@robertmitchell-tv5yf that's not what he said.

[@annagriffin2865]

TRUTH …. music to my ears‼️

[@CKD3332]

Please I need more 90s videos. AMAZING!!!!!!

[@kaloyjaingue639]

You're the instrument light of God continuing to glow amidst darkness.. Thank you so much Sir. God bless you. ,🙏

[@darcynyc]

Love you and Sharon Cliffe!!! Miss you guys sooooo much!!! Keep preaching TRUTH!!!!!

[@GraftedOliveBranch]

Another blast from the past. Thanks Cliffe.

[@jasonnoble7302]

@oursavior3358 Unlikely

[@jasonnoble7302]

@oursavior3358 The reason why it’s unlikely is not based on my actions It’s based on facts No one is sitting talking to Jesus unless by Jesus you mean the guy who makes donuts in Mexico If the Christian God exists I don’t see how he has any justification for his actions or non actions,

[@jasonnoble7302]

@oursavior3358 I’m not here to convince you otherwise Have a god one ☝️

[@GraftedOliveBranch]

@oursavior3358 The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. ~ 1 Corinthians 1:18

[@GraftedOliveBranch]

@oursavior3358 Like you said - it is what it is. Stay strong brother. God bless.

[@fortunesproverbs]

The first 10 minutes about self-righteousness were powerful

[@DonnaW71]

I love love love this episode! The kids had genuine questions and were respectful, and Cliffe brought his A-game with his wonderful answers. I love all of Cliffe's videos but the classics are among my favorites 🥰

[@theidentitychristispodcast]

The problem of evil and suffering is one that has deterred a lot of people from coming to Christ. Yet at the same time, the problem of evil and suffering has also illuminated the light of Christ for the world to see.

[@michaelgallick4617]

"That was wonderful analogies from people and the questions they asked "! "I enjoy watching you and listening to you try and explain to everyone around you, that Jesus is the truth and the way to salvation. "People, Cliffe Knechtle is not wrong about what he teaches of the words of Our Lord, Jesus Christ! Like he said:, we are all sinners and will be, even if we accept Jesus as our Savior! We all are sinners, and Jesus asks us to "try" and be Christians, by love, not hate, be thankful you are able to enjoy life, and try "not to commit these Commandments" which only leads us into the dark! Jesus is the light and accept Him as your Savior! One verse, John 3 in the KJB/KJV, and there's many more like this in the KJB Bible! Be saved and take Jesus into your heart and life! "God bless you Cliffe and 🙏's and ♥️!

[@BrIce-r9m]

this ,, in my opinion, is one of the best and clear and concise videos

[@wurzelbert84wucher5]

As soon as you see God as our Father and not as a distant ruler, it makes sense that he often chose not to intervene. A father needs to give his child the freedom to make experiences on it's own. And since the life here on earth is only a short intermezzo from a perspective of eternity, having a bad life isn't necessarily the end of the world, if you know what I mean ;) I absolutely love these civil discussions with genuin questions!

[@Seanw115]

Love cliffs or hate him, he’s the real deal. I literally can’t stop watching these videos. God bless ❤

[@robertbethel6074]

Cliff had 2 amazing responses in my opinion. The first was we all love to compare ourselves to Jeffrey Dahmer but not Mother Theresea and the second was the swimming across the ocean analogy; yes you might be better at swimming farther (a better person) but neither of us can make it all the way.

[@jeffrey6618]

Mother theresa was cathotlic . And a lot of people and experts .dont consider the catholic church .or vatic a n to be right at all .look at the 95 thesis Martin luther put on the door of the cathotlic insttition

[@Pawdolf.Kitler]

@@jeffrey6618 that is not the point the point is we dont compare ourselves to those who in our eyes are "better" than us. Even tho ultimately there is non good no not one

[@jayD4321]

Love this classics

[@JesusisGodandKingofkimgs]

Have you ever lied, stolen, used God's name in vain, looked wuth lust? if so you need to repent today and Believe in Jesus Christ to save you from Hell and go to heaven instead

[@Generatorman59]

@@JesusisGodandKingofkimgs If you accept Jesus as your savior just because you don't want to go to hell, you don't really love Jesus, you just don't want to go to hell.

[@MattRomPsalms]

These were some really good questions and his answers are golden.

[@OremusGolf]

That Asian dude would’ve tested my patience. Cliffe is a gift

[@Aethelvlad]

He was so smug and offensive, laughing and mocking the entire time, self-righteous and ignorant. Really upset me.

[@manda1370]

Hi! Off topic.. but I just wanted to say, God loves you dearly! He sent His Son, Jesus to die on the cross for everyone's sin, so that we could be forgiven. He lived a sinless life, and because the wages of sin is death, and in Him was no sin, He resurrected on the third day!

[@yandex0102]

Those are really good questions. Every Christian should ask these questions and must know the answers. These questions explain why the Good News is essential

[@gkardz4602]

JESUS intervened. HE gave HIS life for them.

[@jayfry895]

Hallelujah JESUS ✨️ ✨️ ✨️

[@Aurora3831]

The answer is Jesus 🙏 He is the Way ✝️

[@jasonnoble7302]

If Jesus was fully God and God drowned the world and there were babies on the world then Jesus killed babies… Oh my goodness

[@johnyang1420]

Thats why Im Catholic!!!

[@jasonnoble7302]

@oursavior3358 “Scripture is clear that Jesus is God (John 20:28; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8), and it is equally clear that He is truly human (Romans 1:2-4; 1 John ...” Re write it properly Jacob 🙃 Fill in the blanks 👍 Part God part man ? If Jesus was (…….) God and God drowned the world and there were babies on the world then (……..) God Jesus killed babies…. Oh my goodness

[@jasonnoble7302]

@oursavior3358 I think I’ve got something here. I said Jesus killed babies before? When ? My Jesus killed babies hypothesis is fairly new. Our conversation on it would have had to occur in the last few weeks 🤷‍♂️ How do I fix my hypothesis ? Fill in the blanks Part God part man ? If Jesus was (.......) God and God drowned the world and there were babies on the world then (... .....) God Jesus killed babies.

[@jasonnoble7302]

@@johnyang1420 Good for you!! I’m an atheist 😎 Catholics are the nicest people. My experience with Catholics has always been positive. Very nice people. Even though we disagree on worldviews I like how they conduct themselves in a pleasant manner and never condemn others for their beliefs. For the most part anyway Cheers friend 👍

[@EchoGuzman]

Classic Cliffe 🔥

[@LovesandCuddles]

12:42 LOL!! OMG!! I thought that was Mike Tyson for a second!

[@lindseychisholm8226]

Hate the sin, love people

[@nathandm1]

That blonde kid at the end was very articulate, something you never see now a days

[@SHADOWSCOOp2829]

God is good 🙏🏼

[@paulwilfridhunt]

This is Cliffe at his best

[@Generatorman59]

Hey PaulDodger, I hope you are doing well these days. It's been a while.

[@33Cigarettes]

I gotta disagree, though Cliffe was sharp and gave great answers here, I must say he’s grown in wisdom since then and has had more time to think over the responses he’s gotten over the years and so on.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

@@33Cigarettes good point

[@junkgum]

That's time when Satan was only being divisive not blatant.

[@tomhorwat5313]

The guy with the blonde hair gave pretty good responses.

[@xxavierjenkins1731]

It's so refreshing to hear someone ask about the Bible and the person answering straight up say " I do not know"...he will clarify his perspective. But just being able to admit that is so humble to me.

[@tyronefowler7314]

Cliff is spot on yet again

[@larrydominguez1758]

we have value because of JESUS CHRIST..without HIM..we were on our way .. to hell

[@akeelmasih1110]

You know what... I usually say to my peers that I'm at my best behavior when I'm at church.. .which means that I want to be with God now and in the life after.... Meaning, we wanna do what's God's will when we get to live with Him.

[@Zaruiam]

why not be on your best behaviour everywhere? Is God not present everywhere?

[@akeelmasih1110]

@@Zaruiam Silly, I was being modest. Christians believe in the Holy Spirit that guides and protects us from acting like those who think there's no God or God will give us a pass if we are being little naughty. I'm always at my best behavior however, there are secret sins of heart, thoughts, and lusts, which become overwhelming due to our free will. We try to control that free will knowing that God is watching us which an average Christian does not take into account and give into lusts and desires of our heart. That's what I meant being in the church frees my mind from wandering around the culture's provision. Hope this make sense.

[@akeelmasih1110]

@@robertmitchell-tv5yf If you have a wife or a girlfriend, go ask her why is it wrong to lust after an every woman you'd be attractive to.

[@akeelmasih1110]

@@robertmitchell-tv5yf Because you are hungry......

[@jeffrey6618]

@@akeelmasih1110 because they need to repent period

[@matthewscheidt7754]

Awesome.

[@BrIce-r9m]

the guitar riff has me every time. its the cliffe riff

[@trendswithjotham]

Free will indeed

[@hospitalsgivingpatientsdan8894]

Well behaved students amazing what a change today

[@tersan5043]

“What are you living for?”…”Thats what I’m trying to find out!” Man, the responses in this video are SOOO different than now.

[@BrIce-r9m]

10:50 min mark. the mans question was would there be desires in heaven, but, I say. the glory of heaven will surpass any human desires. LIKE COMMENT if u agree

[@giarose6493]

Amen 🙏

[@Lillianachimp]

My guy, the difference is we were created n sinned at some point. He always is and is morally perfect.

[@jasonnoble7302]

How ? What justification does God have to claim he’s morally perfect?

[@WilmerCassara]

Was just wondering why you keep sunday

[@jamez456]

Cliffe looking fly in this clip

[@--sly--]

It's amazing how God works can come to life right in front of our eyes. Jeffery D did repent, but it's up to GODs judgment in the end.

[@joshuarodriguez8270]

CAN WE PLEASE BRING BACK THAT CLASSIC INTRO?!

[@Bsmart2948]

Merry Christmas Everyone! All glory to Immanuel

[@josed5441]

Awesome video. He is so fast when he's younger 😁 no offense still brilliant in his old age

[@lindseychisholm8226]

That question where he says life isn't fare that's true.

[@emx111]

I like that Cliff doesn't try to argue something that he ultimately doesn't know. But Cliff said that there is a spiritual consequence of flipping God off and that is spending eternity separated from God. Cliff is very careful with his word and he is absolutely correct that hell is separation from God. But if Cliff is thinking that people who go to hell are receiving eternal life in suffering, than he is wrong. I know for a fact that some religions belive that being in hell is burning forever while the satan is laughing as hard as he can. That doesn't make sense at all, the consequence of sin is death not eternal life, being in hell alive while burning that is life, you will live forever either if you are in haven or in hell, and it doesn't make any sense. So I hope Cliff is not referring to that. Cliff said that hell is separation from God and I can respect that, is a honest statement. I wish Ciff would clarify this, because I know a lot of people that chose to be christians because they are afraid to burn forever in hell. Why would someone think that a just God will make a person suffer forever for the sins that that person committed in 80 years. It would not be just to suffer for eternity for what you did only for 80 years. So it doesn't make sense. Some people believe that death is basically eternal sleep, while in hell will be a fire, all sinners who rejected God will die and basically vanish like they never existed, they will suffer more mentally because of what they could've had and they lost, the physical suffering will be present, but it will stop. And that is mercy as well, they will stop existing, they will not live anymore. They will certainly not go to heaven but will not get the same gift as the people in haven, meaning eternal life. And for me that makes much more sense in the light of a loving God.

[@rafaelcesar9705]

Jesus Christ did not promise a happy life or comfortable life here on earth. That is why He warns us that to follow Him is not easy. What He promise is eternal, happy and comfortable life in Heaven.

[@dohope4554]

it is precisely why we suffer that Jesus Christ of Nazareth suffered with us - to bear arms with us - to endure life with us - to show us the pain he is willing to endure for our sake, for our undeserving seat in heaven.

[@hasdrubalsosamarquez5430]

For the guy who's as the question at 10:55 Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

[@FrancisAAfful]

Broo these students ask good questions

[@bra9.0lewellyn61]

Great to see Mike Tyson asking questions about the Bible

[@manda1370]

Hi! Off topic.. but I just wanted to say, God loves you dearly! He sent His Son, Jesus to die on the cross for everyone's sin, so that we could be forgiven. He lived a sinless life, and because the wages of sin is death, and in Him was no sin, He resurrected on the third day!

[@SamcoB1]

""Cliff is so rude and angry sometimes "" well as Paul washer once said , preaching as a dying man to dying men

[@yhwhismywh]

Jesus says money is important? Which verses are those?

[@seekingtruth4175]

Look at that full head of dark and lovely hair!

[@curiousgeorge555]

" I. Do. NOT. Know." Neither do I.

[@matthewnoah1814]

Plus you get a new body created in the image of Jesus Christ

[@joeyn985]

So many bring up the "problem of evil". It's so simple. The day God steps in to eliminate evil is judgement Day. It's the end of the world of man. It would mean damnation for these atheists. The day God decides to intervene and eliminate and disallow all evil, it means the dominion of God over earth.

[@OMGUKILLKENNY2]

When the genocidal tyrant takes over, it is not the end of evil, it is evil winning.

[@BrockJamesStory]

Remember be ye followers of Paul, things will start making sense when you do

[@BrockJamesStory]

@@robertmitchell-tv5yf pirate? No I’m trying to help people see the fellowship of the mystery

[@BrockJamesStory]

@@robertmitchell-tv5yf ? No Paul reveals the fellowship of the mystery it’s in the Bible not the movie theatre Ephesians 3:9

[@BrockJamesStory]

@@robertmitchell-tv5yf dive into he mysteries you’ll enjoy them! May grace be with you!

[@BrockJamesStory]

@@robertmitchell-tv5yf well it was a mystery that was his in God from the beginning but revealed to Paul so Paul reveals them. I’ll look up some right now one sec

[@BrockJamesStory]

@@robertmitchell-tv5yf Romans 11:25 (the mystery that blindness would happen to the nation of Israel and that they would reject their messiah until the fullness of the gentiles comes in) it would have been crazy to think that the nation of Israel would reject their messiah, but they did and not only that, but the mystery is also that one day they will accept him as prophecy suggests (Roman’s 11:26-27) Mentioned again in Roman’s 16:25-26 (but more study would be needed to know what he was saying previously in the chapter to understand that) 1 COR 2:6-8 (seems to me that he’s saying we preach Christ crucified for forgiveness of sins, but this was not made known previously otherwise Satan would not have allowed Christ to be crucified) 1 COR 15:51. (The mystery that not all of us will die before being changed, as in the rapture. Some will still be alive when their bodies are changed and we are taken up to meet Jesus in the clouds, then some time after that God will bring in wrath on the world) God won’t destroy the righteous with the wicked and so he will take us up out of here.) EPH 1:9 (this one would also take some more study for me to tell you, I have study some of the mysteries but not all yet.) EPH 3:1-7 (the mysteries were revealed to Paul and so he is the minister of these mysteries, this one being that gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body and partakes of his promise in Christ, I believe you want to put the mysteries together to get a better understanding as well, because it was understood that gentiles would be saved by Israel being a light to the gentiles, but that’s not what’s happening today. So it’s reasonable to think that eventually when the rapture takes place God will start working through Israel again and causing them to Abe the light they were once promised to be. Do your own study on that of course don’t take my word for it!) Oh read all the way to verse 13 of Ephesians I left out the rest Ephesians 5:32 (need more study to get exactly what the mystery here is, but it seems to me the mystery is the body of Christ (the church) Ephesians 6:19 (more study needed, but he tells us that he is the ambassador of the mystery) 1 COL 1:26 (I got to get to my other study but I’ll post the rest of the verses that you can look at yourself! COL 2:2 Col 4:3 2THS 2:7 1TIM 3:9 1TIM 3:16 The word muster is also used in revelations, but that’s probably a whole separate set of mysteries lol

[@Cobra-gl7or]

This video happen one year before columbine shooting. I was only 8 yo back in 1998.

[@joshuamachado6278]

A.I. making us look real disposable RN lol

[@hoseamatavao1208]

👍👍👍👍

[@dotails]

That was a good point that u would not intervene w cigarettes but would with a gun. God may only intervene to keep humanity as a whole going and maintaining other critical moments, but stay out of it as much as possible.

[@jeffrey6618]

But when your serving God .and your saved .hes in our life . And answers our prayers .shows us things .its awesome being a Christian . But even if things go wrong in your life . As a Christian you know at the end of this your going to heaven.

[@fishjj76]

The less wordy and correct answer to the first question is that he believes the only unforgivable sin is that of disbelief. Genocide, murder, rape etc are all forgivable. So yes, good people who don't believe in Jesus will go to hell. So Gandi is in hell, and Jeffrey Dahlmer and Ted Bundy are in heaven. And to a christian that all makes sense, is completely consistent, is absolutely fair and just, and shows what a loving and merciful God there is.

[@dotails]

Transformation is key, for paradise to be possible we have the be transformed into paradise compatible beings. God won't force you to be perfected, but if you accept his offer he will, that means the worst people could be made new, but if you deny the offer he will not perform mental surgery on you.

[@stevie6621]

Wonder what theses former students doing today.

[@Aurora3831]

Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee. Trust in the Lord Forever, for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength.Isaiah 26:3-4 One thing l know and one thing l found God will work it out. Wait on the Lord.🙏🕊✝️

[@Aurora3831]

@Our Savior Bless you 🙏

[@Aurora3831]

@Our Savior 🙏✝️

[@Aurora3831]

Jeremiah33:3 CALL UNTO ME, AND I WILL ANSWER THEE, AND SHEW THEE GREAT AND MIGHTY THINGS, WHICH THOU KNOWEST NOT. Jeremiah 32:27 BEHOLD, I AM THE LORD, THE GOD OF ALL FLESH; IS THERE ANYTHING TOO HARD FOR ME?

[@BrIce-r9m]

13:25 is good

[@ChiefCedricJohnson]

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

[@robmc120]

90's kids listened & asked questions so much deeper than the interrupting i see in discussions now. Today people seem to have no patience to listen to the truth, they believe the lie of "their" (subjective) truth & that's all they need to know; the objective, cohesive truth of Christianity they could care less about. I pray these kids have looked into the logical foundation for their beliefs & found Jesus most compelling by Gods grace. I challenge anyone to cohesively explain an objective foundation for morality outside of the triune God, intelligent citations to show your work outside your subjective opinion please. Let's have a mature, intelligent discussion? In the meantime, I pray the triune God of the supernaturally prophetic (Romans 1:26-31/2 Timothy 4:3/Matthew 24:6/1 Corinthians 1:18), historically verified (archaeologically & anthropologically, enemy/early/multiple attestation, internal consistency, embarrassing reports, etc.) & transcendentally, objectively moral (Exodus 20/Matthew 22:37-40) Bible reveal Himself to you in Spirit & objective truth (John 16:13). May God bless you!

[@bonnie43uk]

Atheists aren't making the claim that morals have an objective foundation Rob, obviously I can't speak for other atheists, but from my own perspective, it seems logical to me that we see other social animals living in relative peace and harmony on a daily basis, our primate cousins being a prime example, there is good evidence to suggest we share over 90% of our DNA with them, morals are simply a system of rules we use to maintain a sense of order in our lives, if other primate species can have these basic rules, then I'm pretty sure we're capable of keeping a sense of order. If your asking where did these morals originate?, thats a very good question, I'm probably not best placed to answer that, but humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, I guess that in order for us to survive, we needed to cooperate and work together, much as many other social species do.. so we learn to abide by moral codes which assist our survival. Do you have any thoughts about how other creatures seem to show affection and care for one another? We have a tv docu show here in the UK called "Meerkat Manor", it's amazing to see similarities in their daily lives how they all care for one another.. they have rules which ensure their survival, and it includes lots of love and affection for one another, they all work as a team to thrive and survive. No God is needed for them to love and care for one another.

[@kingsolomon5278]

@@bonnie43ukwhere do atheists believe the concept of being naked came from ?

[@bonnie43uk]

@@kingsolomon5278 Any reputable anthropologist will tell you early man were naked, how long do you think human beings have been on this planet KS? Think about it my friend, we're all born naked. We first used animal furs to keep us warm in colder climates, this is all basic stuff.

[@bonnie43uk]

I did reply to you Rob, but it's not showing up on the comment section. Oh well.

[@robmc120]

@@bonnie43uk If you're genuinely interested in a mature, intelligent discussion, my email is in the "about" section under "business inquiries". God bless you, bonnie!

[@ImJustRiley]

The only way we receive salvation is by excepting Jesus. No amount of works, money, or deeds gets you in. Reason for that is once you except Jesus your sins are put on him. Therefore you will not be judged off your sins, it is the gift of forgiveness.

[@andreydranicheru5955]

Я не читал комментарии, и уверен, что у Проповедника сегодня есть что сказать, но всё же, постараюсь ответить на вопрос парня с 19:00... Тем более, что он всегда актуален. Иисус говорит - Не бойтесь убивающих тела (От Матфея 10:28). И если вас ударили по одной щеке - подставь другую (От Матфея 5:39). И более того, Он говорит молиться за наших врагов! (От Матфея 5:44). ПОЧЕМУ?!!! Потому-что, нет ничего страшнее чем попасть в Ад. Бог дает шанс насильнику, прийти с повинной, потому-что ОН НЕ ЖЕЛАЕТ НИКОМУ СМЕРТИ! И что если злоумышленник не придет с признанием? Ну что-ж... Бог говорит - предоставьте месть мне (Римлянам 12:19). А что насчет потерпевшего? Разве вечная жизнь в Раю, рядом с Богом, мало? (От Матфея 5:4, Откровение 21:4). Понимаете, мы все созданы по образу Господа. И если Он справедлив, мы тоже требуем справедливости. Но мало кто понимает, что если бы Господь сразу наказывал - мы бы все уже были мертвы. СМЕРТЬ, доказательство нашей вины. Смерть, это отправка в суд... Доверьтесь Богу. Доверьтесь Иисусу как вашему спасителю (Иоанна 3:18). И если в вашей жизни невзгоды, это не значит что Господу всё-равно. Может это проверка вашей веры в Него, как Он когда-то проверял Авраама...

[@keepthechange2811]

Dahmer did actually repent and turn to Jesus. He gets to heaven before ghandi And mother Teresa who were both practicing pagans. None are good. It's grace and humility alone. We've to acknowledge we've broken God's perfect laws. 10 commandments.

[@Mikizushi]

Was scrolling to find a comment like this 😏🤣

[@kengreene5212]

👍👍👍

[@SirMillz]

Sad, these things will never fly at university these days. The lib kids would go ballistic.

[@JohnCashin]

It's interesting how many Christians, including good old Cliffe here, will talk about "when Jesus returns for the second time" because that is tantamount to an admission on their part that Jesus/God is not REALLY here at the moment, and therefore not showing himself in a way that's obvious currently, despite their claims at other times that he is showing himself and that "we atheists don't want to see it because we just don't want to believe he is real" etc. Well, I certainly can't argue with their effective admission that Jesus/God is not here showing himself at the moment, I agree he quite self evidently isn't here showing himself at the moment, otherwise, we wouldn't be having these discussions among ourselves, instead, we'd all be listening to him and talking to him, if he allowed us to have a two-way conversation with him, that is. Yes, I know Christians believe Jesus/God is here on a certain level and when the supposed day of judgement comes he will presumably appear on another level, eg in such a way that 'every eye will see him', as it appears to suggest in Revelation 1:7, which means that when he does presumably show himself on that day, there will be no more room for doubt about his existence, sure, I get the idea in principle. Until, if and when that day comes though, there is, by virtue, perfectly reasonable room for doubt about his existence, and that is really all I am saying at the end of the day. I mean, how could we be expected to just believe in and not question or doubt the existence of a being we have never met or experienced face to face yet? Surely, such an expectation would be an unreasonable one under the current 'no show' circumstances?

[@JohnCashin]

@oursavior3358 Hi Jacob. I was just looking at my own post again because I was concerned by what you said about me 'mocking God' but at no point in my post do I see any mockery at all. Perhaps you might want to look at it again too, and maybe you can tell me where the mockery is. As far as I am aware, I only raised a point and none of what you said has really addressed that point I raised, which was if God/Jesus will 'one day return' then we must logically accept that he is not here now. You can't say "he will return" or "come" whilst simoltaneosly saying "he is here now". If he is ALREADY here then then he can't return or come because he is here. Either he is here or he is not here, which one is it?

[@tylerjones3514]

True, Jesus isn't here on earth at this present time. The Holy Spirit is. Even Stephen, as he was being stoned said, "Behold, I see Jesus standing on the right hand of God." Now what is so interesting, is that so many Muslims are seeing visions of Jesus, and they give a high credence to visions. I would highly recommend looking up Nabeel Quereshi "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus", for his testimony on how he came to accept Christ.

[@JohnCashin]

@@tylerjones3514 Thanks. Well, I think the first element of what you said makes perfect sense. Jesus is self evidently not here at the moment and if he is supposed to be coming back then it makes sense to say he is not here at the moment, so hats off to you for staying within that logical framework. There is another problem which what you have said has brought up though, and it's this, are you a Christian who believes that Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father are LITERALLY one and the same or are you one who believes they are separate entities working as figuratively one?? Because, if you believe they are ABSOLUTELY one and the same but at the same time you are saying that the Holy Spirit is here and yet Jesus is NOT, well, can you see the logical conflict that presents? 🤔

[@tylerjones3514]

@@JohnCashin I certainly did think of this after posting. Certainly they all three are one, yet they three have different jobs. Jesus intercedes for us, through His sacrifice on the cross. The Father forgives us "of all unrighteousness". The Holy Spirit comes to dwell within us, sanctifying us. So yes, one being, yet three persons. Even I'm not entirely clear on it all, but that's the mystery of the Trinity. And maybe this doesn't seem logically coherent, but that's mostly due to my inexperience.

[@JohnCashin]

@@tylerjones3514 That's absolutely fine my friend and thank you for your honesty because I have much more respect for a Christian who says they don't know what the explanation or answer to it is than one who tries to claim that the Trinity is "easy to understand" and that those of us who are asking questions and being sceptical must be somehow just "not wanting to understand it so we can have an excuse to not believe" but that isn't it at all. I would actually like to believe in it all because I agree with Cliffe that if there is no God and no life after death then life is ultimately meaningless. Yes, there is meaning at the moment, in the here and now, and I certainly care about things in the here and now but in the end, it will all add up to a big fat nothing if there is no God and no life after death, I agree totally. Having said all of that, I don't want to believe in it if it's false, and whilst I can't prove to my satisfaction that it's false or true at the moment, there are a lot of loose ends that I cannot ignore, like, for a start, how the Bible was put together and whether or not the people who put it together actually did it with God's permission (presuming there is a God) or if they just did it off their own back?? We need to know because if we are going to put our trust in the Bible as being the 'infallible word of God' then we must be confident in its origin, and right now, I am not and if they are honest, I don't see how anyone can be. There are too many unanswered questions regarding exactly how the Bible came about. I presume that God didn't come to the committee that put the Bible together and said "right, I have chosen you all to put together a book of my word, you will call it the Bible and I will tell you which writings to include in it", I presume that what actually happened was they took it upon themselves to put together this book and they took it upon themselves to select which writings should go in it and which ones should be rejected and they then claimed that it was a divinely inspired idea, OK, maybe it was but where is God to confirm this? Can you see my problem here? Anyway, best wishes, for now, I appreciated your replies.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

And let’s not forget that the word strive actually means try really hard. The scriptures say to try really hard. Many shall seek to enter in but because they don’t strive they shall not be able to. The Lord says deny thyself and carry thy cross. Go without sin. Deny thyself. Strive. Luke 13:24 King James Version 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

[@ephemeralenhancement9445]

The man in glasses and black shirt did not want any answers. He was just trying to tempt Cliffe into calling God evil. It's like you could see his forked tongue

[@jenkinsljenkinssquire9137]

Here you go Cliffe - kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioWbYpmbZ66imKs

[@APilgrimInAFallenWorld2030]

17:40 People are so focused on this life which leads to death, that they don’t realize that after this life we go to eternity, either to heaven where all Gods people are blessed and separated from evil and will never suffer or hell where all those whom deny Gods Son whom saves from death and hell and sin will go for eternity.

[@BillyMotau-si3zo]

What does Satan gain from killing people?

[@KnightMissionTeam]

2 Corinthians ch12 answers the question of why God allows satan to torment us. if God is soverign then satan falls under Gods will. one of the answers that Paul offered was, to keep us humble and because we are perfected in suffering. another point, to give glory to God's and its sufficiency

[@KnightMissionTeam]

*Gods grace and its sufficiency

[@jasonnoble7302]

@@KnightMissionTeam Sounds Silly

[@jasonnoble7302]

Sounds silly

[@dexternelson]

There is going to be a lot of people in heaven who were murderers, thieves, rapists, and more for one reason - faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from works. It has nothing to do with how good or bad we think we are, but whether we were genuine in accepting the gift that Christ offers, because no one can ever be good enough to meet the standard of perfection. To the second question, I somewhat disagree because the reason we sin is because we ha e a sin nature. Though the penalty for sin is paid, the consequences of sin we live with. We even have a saying for it. We say we're living in the flesh. In heaven, we won't have that sin nature because we will have new, perfect bodies without the sin nature. In other words, we can sin, but ultimately we won't want to because we won't have a sin nature, but also because we won't have a temper there to push us.

[@ricmay2837]

Gods Says……. Woman is called ‘’the weaker vessel’’ by God……not equal to men……. Although both have the same value ..yet they have different responsibilities….headship is assigned to men… that’s gods plan…No person is good …the standard is Holiness…Which no person makes…..no person is always good, I know none .. The concept of Equality… is a False Painting … The concept of Nice guy, the good guy … God says we are all fallen and sinful…. The flesh, eyes ….they are fallen … their not Good and Holy …. Yeshua was the only Good Man ..`god man ‘ His blood is offered to us … as a Passover Lamb … Ric

[@mbgrafix]

*4:20* - Who could have predicted? Jeffrey Dahmer *_did_* become a Christian! ...and presumably, he _is_ in Heaven. But not because he was a good person. He was not. And guess what whoever happens to be reading this at the moment. You too are not a good person. So, if you miss Heaven by a mile or a thousand miles, it makes no difference. You missed Heaven. The blood of Christ is the *_only_* way to Heaven...for all!

[@mbgrafix]

@Our Savior For many reasons, I believe that on death the spirit of the redeemed goes immediately to heaven to await the resurrection. Here is one of those reasons... _"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."_ *2 CORINTHIANS 5:8*

[@mbgrafix]

@Our Savior Truth be told...I do not wrestle with issues of when I will see Christ after death...when am I resurrected etc... It is a non issue with me. Whenever it happens it will be exactly when God wants it to.

[@mbgrafix]

@Our Savior Thank you I appreciate your kind words.

[@ezeriahsanders]

10:00

[@TruG53]

Did Mike Tyson just ask Cliffe a question?

[@jeffrey6618]

No this guy didnt have a lisp

[@stevensko9153]

🤣 Why is gandhi the go to for someone who is morally good? 🤣

[@akeelmasih1110]

Would a Christian be condemned in an atheist culture? Yes! Therefore, cut the fluff when you say, you are being condemned in a Christian culture.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

WE ARE TO BE A HOLY PEOPLE. However the verse in the Bible that states that he who is without sin is a liar could be referring to those who think they are without sin before they accept the saviour. Because presumably, there will be those who are good and decent people, the noble ones, that have not yet bowed the knee to Jesus Christ, but could conceivably think they are without sin, because of the decency of their lives. But those who say that holiness is an impossibility are the ones in real danger. However those who are trying to be holy, albeit they might be failing and succeeding, are nevertheless pleasing God because they are striving to please God. And some of these ones will get the victory by attaining holiness by becoming dead to sin, as presumably the apostles did particularly towards the end of their lives. But perhaps for many they shall die trying. However if they believe holiness is possible and are sincerely trying to attain it, God shall see them as blameless. 1 Peter 2:9 “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” King James Version (KJV)

[@BrockJamesStory]

Peter is talking to the 12 tribes of Israel not the church the body of Christ

[@paulwilfridhunt]

@@BrockJamesStory Regardless if he’s talking to the chooks in the chook house, it’s good for us too isn’t it.

[@BrockJamesStory]

@@paulwilfridhunt it can be for our learning, but be careful when trying to get doctrine from it. The body of Christ is separate from the twelve tribes of Israel. Two distinct groups of people

[@paulwilfridhunt]

@@BrockJamesStory yes that’s true

[@zylzyl3823]

Same question comes out every time , why believe the bible or Jesus as the only truth when are others out there claiming that as well ?? ..... and the answer of "I don't know" , or not answering the question , leads to emptiness . But the bible tells the answer , and it's this simple one . Before any religion on the earth , man sin in Eden , Elohim cursed the *serpent" and said that "He/Elohim" will put enmity between both seeds , "He/Jesus" will crush your head , and you will strike His heel ..... so the "prophecy" of Jesus as the "Saviour" was made long before "any religion existed" . Later , after the flood in the time of Noach , at Babel/confusion , Nimrod/rebellion the grandson of Noach and first king on earth , him and his wife "Semiramis"founded the first "cult/religion" . All humanity lived in that area , but Elohim/God dispersed them all over the world , taking with them the worship of Babel with them . So when Jesus came was born and up to today , we can see or learn that there are many religions and cults around the world proclaiming that they are or have the truth , but they are just branches from Babel worship . Now , Peter writes in the new testament that God "reveals the ending from the beginning" , there is no other "idol/god" that can do that , the bible prophecies have been 100% accurate , no other can be close to it , and this is only done by a "True God" , that transcends time . I strongly suggest that if you read my msg you consider to read the Bible , the only true and Holly scriptures revealed from Elohim God

[@yhwhismywh]

When Jesus returns he will clean you up. Through his saints and when you can swim across to Japan you will go to heaven. Your robes are washed white in the tribulation. Not in heaven.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

Clearly predestination exists because we are notified of its existence in the Bible and without this notification it’s very unlikely that we would know it exists. Perhaps we could ask ourselves the question why. Why does God want us to know of the existence of predestination? Where John Calvin got it wrong was not realising that if God didn’t predestinate, no one would be saved, hence the reason for its existence. We know that God knows everything. And as He knew before He created the angels which ones would be faithful to Him, He also knew which ones of us would be loyal to Him. And it’s these ones that He has predestinated. We might think we can stand against the wiles of Satan, but without God’s intervention, Satan’s power would overpower us, and repentance would not be possible. Peter had been with the Lord and seen all the miracles but Jesus said to Peter that Satan had desired to sift him, but Jesus stopped it by praying for Peter. Therefore what chance would we have of repenting if God didn’t intervene. He intervenes with predestination by giving us a particular life that makes repentance possible. But God would save all, however He can only save those who have a propensity to please God, although this desire to please God, at the early stages,might be somewhat hidden from them. But even though God has chosen us, and made His decision to save us, before the foundation of the world, nevertheless He still would have factored into His decision, the prayers we would offer up for the salvation of others, long after He chose to predestinate us. Therefore we still pray on our knees with great supplication, beseeching God to hear our pitiful pleas, fasting too if need be, for the salvation of others. And because we’ve gotten this great salvation, the very least we can do with all gratitude, is pray for others, asking God to save them, as He mercifully saved us. And whilst God knows all things, however we are not absolutely 100% privy as to who is predestined until we see their fruits of repentance. Therefore we give everyone the benefit of the doubt, sowing the seed, the word of God, liberally, hoping they are to be saved. Who would have ever thought that Saul the persecutor of the church was predestined. Those who have been on their Christian journey for quite a while recognise that without the particular life God gave them they would not have repented. And without knowing of the existence of predestination they could perhaps have concluded that it was unfair that others didn’t get a life that made repentance possible. But knowing of the existence of predestination they realise that those who are not predestined are those who were never going to be loyal to God. And this knowledge helps us, the faithful, to make sense of a matter that might otherwise seem unjust and unfair.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

@Our Savior What you need to do Jacob is read what I have written. You’ve obviously not done that. Read it slowly. It’s not complicated. And then ask me questions.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

COURAGE. In my dreams or so it seems, was the vision, it was Crocket alright. But before he spoke in his long black coat, he stared, this man of the night. It was a long time ago the Alamo, and it’s true I did stop to say a prayer. Let my death and pain be not in vain, give my courage to he who is rare.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

CUSTER’S COURAGE. For courage they say that Custer ate onions but what about the Little Big Horn? Wasn’t that the damn place where his golden locks were shorn. He knew his number was up when he rode into that Indian trap, For all the world to see now marked clearly on the map. But let’s give Custer his due when he took his last stand. He fought like hell with no head jammed in the sand. Give me Coster, Oh give me Custer. Yeah yeah yeah, It was courage he could muster.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

@Our Savior Facing truth requires courage Jacob. I suggest to you that most readers who have read what I wrote yesterday about predestination, understand perfectly what I have written. But if you disagree with it or have questions, then I will do my best to answer them for you. What is it that you don’t understand?

[@paulwilfridhunt]

THANKSGIVING. I say this to you in the land of dreams, Remember how you got there packed like sardines. On the Mayflower, You star-spangled superstar, You’re a great champion, Thats what you are. And as great as that turkey tasted on Thanksgiving day, I bet you anything it’s better today. Daniel Boone endured 86 years of struggle in strife, Please pass me the gravy, thank you dear wife.

[@fletcher373]

Oh why didn't God stop this or that evil act? How do we know when God prevents evil or not? When only know when evil happens not when it is stopped from happening. And why are we blaming God for the free will of men. Especially when these same people say we dont need God to act and do good, we all know it ourselves.

[@bonnie43uk]

The woman at the beginning made a great point that if Christianity is true, evil people, if they repent sincerely, they end up in heaven, while people who've led ordinary lives, but don't accept Jesus as their Saviour, as Cliffe agreed, they go to Hell, .. if you're a non believer, this argument alone is reason to reject the premise of Christianity. Here's a question I would pose to Christians, .. if when I die, it turns out that, in reality, my life goes on in some other realm, and it doesn't end as i thought it would at the point of death.. and I'm faced with the stark reality that in actual fact, hell is a real place, and I plead with Jesus not to send me there, will he show me mercy and forgive me? As things stand, the whole concept of an eternal hell as I'd been raised to believe, is evil beyond comprehension, what kind of supernatural being would create such a place? Is hell clearly defined? .. i notice Cliffe doesn't preach the eternal damnation version of hell, he goes with the "separation from God" version, .. if that version involves eternal nothingness, that's pretty much fine with me, I'll be in the same situation I was in before my parents had sex, in that, i did not exist.. existing in a place of eternal torment is a whole different ball game. Christians seem to differ wildly on what Hell actually is. Should the terms and conditions not be explicit so that no one is in any doubt what hell consists of?

[@Generatorman59]

Most Christians that I have come across will say that all opportunities of salvation end at the moment of death. As far as Hell. They are all over the map. I heard that it is a place of eternal torment. I have heard it is a place of temporary torment until the second coming, then everyone will go to heaven. I heard it is a place of torment until you surrender yourself to Jesus Christ, then you can go to heaven. I have heard it is a place of torment until the day of judgement, then you are annihilated. I have heard it is complete annihilation. I have heard it is just a separation from god. The thing that I find strange is that they all say they can back their position up with scripture. Each one claims they are correct, and the others are misinterpreting the bible.

[@coolservantjesusswag2936]

We are based on God’s standard for good not man’s standard for good. So Gandhi to you may be a good person based on your subjective standard of good but based on God’s objective standard of what is good since God is good could be different than yours. So that’s the first distinction that you must make. You are not perfectly good. God is perfectly good, so you can’t subjectively say that Gandhi is better than Dahmer based on your moral relativity. I am not saying Dahmer is good, he is not but I am saying Dahmer if he truly believed in Christ could be saved based on his humility while Gandhi based on his subjective goodness may be arrogant and not think that he needs a Savior. Also, there are sources that say Gandhi wasn’t as good of a person as many claim. But that’s a different topic. Anyway, God is merciful through his grace and a person that is fallen and truly realizes that they need a Savior in Christ

[@nikokapanen82]

@@Generatorman59 There are three main doctrines that over 90% of Christians believe: First is the literal eternal conscious torment where you will be thrown into the literal lake of fire to burn alive forever and ever. Then there is annihilation, where all sinners will burn out of existence completely. The third one is finite punishment for sins and then full restoration of all things, where everybody will be fixed to perfection and join heaven. Which one do you think God who is just and good would do in fact?

[@Generatorman59]

@@coolservantjesusswag2936 “We are based on God’s standard for good not man’s standard for good.” Really? How can you possibly demonstrate the accuracy of this statement? Isn’t this just your subjective opinion? “God’s objective standard of what is good since God is good could be different than yours.” If this god of the bible is real, it is my subjective opinion that he is a moral thug. He condones slavery and he kills babies. This god can’t even abide by his own standard of morality. So, that is the first distinction that you must make. “…so you can’t subjectively say that Gandhi is better than Dahmer based on your moral relativity.” Yes, I can. Dahmer had a lot of cases where he violated people’s well-being. And since I subjectively chose well-being, along with compassion, justice, fairness, etc. as part of my morality, I can say his actions were in direct conflict with my morality. So, I define that as being subjectively bad. “God is merciful through his grace and a person that is fallen and truly realizes that they need a Savior in Christ.” Yet, another baseless assertion.

[@coolservantjesusswag2936]

@@Generatorman59 Dude stop writing monologues. I am not reading your unintelligible mumbo jumbo. You lack consistency in any of your arguments. You are all over the place. Have a nice day!

[@tTtt-ho3tq]

If you don't believe in (Abraham) God you will go to hell. No matter how good you think you're, you are still a sinner in the eyes of God. Everybody is destined to hell. Nobody deserves heaven. Except, when you repent your sins and accept (Abraham) God or Jesus Christ. So only Jews and Muslims besides Christians could go to heaven. If you're a Buddhist who don't believe in God. Or Hindus or Taoists or anybody who don't believe in God will go to hell. Because we're all sinners in the eyes of God. Makes sense?

[@RobGMun]

I disagree with Cliff on this one. If God made us in his image, then he embued us with his values and priciples, Cliffe has argued this many many times to justify his stance on moraility. So this includes a sense of justice, i'm sorry but noo matter how much a serial killer repents and begs God he is not going to be forgiven for taking the gift of life from another person, that's spitting in the face of God. There's some Evil that you just don't come back from, it's called mortal sin and you won't be seeing any Dictators or Serial Killers in heaven.

[@boilermankamajii]

Then I think you may have missed his point at 10:00

[@CJBlake-ym6ky]

Right! A religion that says the person who lives an ordinary life who doesn't believe in Jesus as God goes to hell. You can be faithful to your spouse, raise children to be respectful and good ppl, treating others w/ respect and dignity - won't matter. But a cannibal who has destroyed families goes to heaven b'c they truly believe in Jesus as God. WILD!!!

[@paulwilfridhunt]

You would think that an atheist would say wow is that actually right that all these birds, of which there are 10,000 species, have their incubation periods divisible by 7. But do they say that? Nope. No way. Because they don’t want it to be right. Instead they fight it because they definitely don’t want it to be true. In NZ where I come from, we look for the chic of the Kiwi bird to hatch on the 42nd day. But the list goes on and on 10,000 times. The common fowl is on the 21st day. The common duck is on the 28 th day and the Muscovy duck is 35 days. But all birds have their incubation periods divisible by 7 be it turkeys, eagles, or penguins. Ok so why do the atheists fight it. Are you ready for this one. Ok here is it. Ready steady go. They don’t want God to exist otherwise they’d say wow shucks could that actually be possible. Could that be true. Because if it’s true its fantastic. It’s incredible. It’s absolutely amazing. But they don’t do that. Obviously if all the birds, of which there are 10,000 species, have their incubation periods divisible by 7, it means that there is a DESIGNER. Are atheists clear thinkers. Give me a break. Nope. No way. Why is is this so? It’s because they are in a cult. And they like the flat earth society, with chests out, boast that they’re right and actually despise those who aren’t bright enough to be as right or as enlightened. And then they wonder and puzzle why we don’t want to talk to them in their heightened delusional state which is a mindset that they aren’t aware of. And I’ve written this not necessarily for atheists, although I wish it could persuade them, but instead I’ve written it for the believers who might still be puzzling over the reason why atheists are atheists. They are geniuses at putting their heads in the sand. Kind of funny but still pretty sad seeing them in this trapped state. Atheism is a very seductive cult. Never investigate it. It can catch people. They get hooked. Both Atheism and pornography need to be avoided like the plague.

[@Generatorman59]

"Obviously if all the birds, of which there are 10,000 species, have their incubation periods divisible by 7, it means that there is a DESIGNER. I just fact checked your claim and you are wrong. For example, the chicken has an incubation period between 20 and 30 days. There are a lot of environmental influences that determine the incubation period. The main one is temperature. Well, that was easy. Do you have any more 'facts' that can be dispelled? By the way, even if your claim were true, that would not necessitate a designer.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

To prove the point of the madness of some cult members of atheism, which is their obsessive rejection of anything that might discredit their atheistic beliefs, is that they are already starting to surface. Here they are saying that the incubation periods of birds isn’t actually divisible by 7. They’ve done their homework. It was a piece of cake. It took 5 minutes. No no no. There’s no wow. There’s no gee shucks could this be right. Nope none of that. It’s just attack attack attack. Surprise surprise huh. Surprise surprise. Wow. I predicted it. And they wonder why we don’t want to talk to them. Of course there’s always the possibility that some of them are actually secret satanists. That would explain everything. And that’s probably the real truth. Some of them have got to be Satanists but they try to make out that they are not. These ones will be in hell for a long time before they get snuffed out as though they never existed. Whereas those noble atheists will suffer much less. It might be quite quick.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

A classic example of an atheists inability to properly use their reasoning powers is someone saying that even if it’s true that 10,000 species of birds have incubation periods that are divisible by 7, it doesn’t mean there is a designer. Wow. It just blows your mind doesn’t it, especially when it’s taken into consideration that there’s more chance of someone winning the lottery every day of their life than for 10,000 species of birds to have incubation periods divisible by 7 but were not designed that way. Ok maybe someone from the Amazon jungle or someone who has had a lobotomy could perhaps be excused for saying such nonsense saying there’s no designer, but no one that’s been educated would ever dare to say such a nonsensical thing. But those that do, you know that they aren’t playing with a full deck. Something is critically wrong with them. We are talking serious mental impairment. And they wonder why we don’t want to talk to them. Wow. Where do these people come from ???

[@tomhorwat5313]

That 7 thing isn't true. Go check it out.

[@JohnCashin]

@@tomhorwat5313 This is one of the problems with Paul. He has done this same thing on other occasions in discussions I have had with him in the past. Basically, he cites what he THINKS are absolute, rock-solid hard facts and then says "see, atheists don't want to accept this because they just don't want to believe in God, God is in their faces and they refuse to see him because they wish he didn't exist". What he doesn't want to get is that the TRUE reason we don't accept these things he brings up as "evidence for God" is that these things he is claiming are facts are NOT actually proven facts at all. They are ideas that have been spread around, probably by Creationists, which are at best overly exaggerated ideas and at worst, outright lies. If they were all true then he might have a bit of a point but what he says isn't all completely true, just maybe partially true.

[@singwithpowerinfo5815]

There is no objective value, purpose, or meaning. I’m not sure why people think that there should be. Trying to find such meaning is a waste of energy and asks all the wrong questions.

[@p.as.in.pterodactyl1024]

What is the right question / what are the right questions?

[@singwithpowerinfo5815]

@@p.as.in.pterodactyl1024 Ask how to make the most of this life.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

Ok hell might seem pretty bad and seemingly excessive as a punishment for rejecting Jesus Christ. And if they are in hell in perpetuity, then if we’re going to be really real with ourselves, we have to say yep that a bit excessive alright. But actually the scriptures whilst on one hand are saying it’s a forever thing, they are also saying that it its not forever. They say it’s a place of finito. They say they perish there. And that Satan will eventually be ashes under our feet. Therefore isn’t it more reasonable to assume that hell is not a place where souls are writhing in agony forever and ever. But is it just for God to punish people for rejecting Jesus Christ. Ok. Let’s take a look and consider. The creator of the universe realises that if He creates human beings for heaven they won’t make it because they’re going to blow it. Therefore they are going to need to be rescued. But God knows that the only thing that can save them is for He Himself to become a human being, namely the man Jesus Christ, who’ll need to be sacrificed on a cross at Calvary. And He arranges it so that all who believe in Jesus Christ and put their trust in Him shall be rescued. But is it fair and just to send to hell those who refuse to be rescued. Let’s say a man is adrift on a life raft slowly perishing but refuses to be rescued. And let’s say his rescuers sold all they had to instigate the rescue plan only when they find him, he drives them away with a high powered machine gun. And as they know the man is to perish they experience some sadness and sorrow. If this case could be tried in a court of law it could be argued that the man on the life raft is responsible for the cost of all the earthly possessions that were sold to rescue him because he refused the rescue. Eventually the man dies in his life raft and arrives to be judged by God. And Michael the arch angel says to the man that if he had allowed himself to be rescued it would have been sufficient compensation for the cost of the rescue. But as he refused to be rescued, his rescuers lost their goods which they sold for no good reason, and therefore that cost is still owed. But if he had allowed himself to be rescued, his rescuers would have had the compensation of his rescue which would have been sufficient for them. They did the right thing. They tried to save him. He wasted their money because if it wasn’t for him and his plight they would never have suffered from needing to sell all their goods to save him. Ok here is another story. There was a great nation who for many years felt great pity for a far off country that had a cruel ruler who treated his people with incredible cruelty. And eventually the decision was made to free them from such terrible oppression, but it was going to result in a great loss of life of the freedom fighters. Volunteers from the army were called for and it was explained to them that most would not return alive, such would be the casualty rate. These good soldiers knew they would sacrificing their lives to save others, but nevertheless they volunteered because of the greatness of the mission to save their fellow man. The mission was successful but at a terrible cost. Many volunteers lost their lives dying bravely. But the cruel ruler was overthrown and killed. And although the plan was to set up a new regime made up of fair and just men from the great nation, a delegation pleaded for the son of the cruel ruler to take the throne, who promised to institute new policies which would treat the people kindly. And with some reservations the great nation acquiesced and let the son rule and withdrew their forces from that country. However after a few years the son proved to be much worse that his father. He was twice as cruel. Then the great nation re-entered that county and destroyed the son and his evil regime but before doing so they wanted them to be aware of the unnecessary cost which was the loss of their good volunteers who willingly sacrificed their lives for others. And for the sake of the volunteers these people sat in stocks in the public square for seven years before eventually being executed, so they could die knowing they deserved it. And for those who go to hell for rejecting the cost of the rescue operation needed to save them, namely God laying down His life for them in the form of Jesus Christ, they too need to realise before being eventually snuffed out, that they deserve it.

[@Generatorman59]

"But God knows that the only thing that can save them is for He Himself to become a human being, namely the man Jesus Christ, who’ll need to be sacrificed on a cross at Calvary." WHY?? Who's rules are god following? Or did god create this rule and compelled himself to follow it? Basically, why does it require a blood sacrifice? This makes no sense.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

Observe the rebellion of atheists as they actually have the audacity to criticise God. Wow it’s something else isn’t it. Another one bites the dust.

[@kingsolomon5278]

@@Generatorman59my friend, ask God sincerely from your heart to reveal Himself to you and give you understanding of Him if He is really real. Hypothetically though would you be willing to accept God if you came to the conclusion that He is real and the bible is true ?

[@Generatorman59]

@@kingsolomon5278 Please don't get me wrong here. I am not trying to combative. But the problem is I don't know who I would be asking. I don't believe in the existence of a God, so I don't know who to address my question to.

[@JohnCashin]

@@Generatorman59 I know what you mean. I sometimes pray agnostically, eg "God, Jesus, I don't know if you're actually there or not, or if I might be just talking to myself here but if you really are there then please manifest yourself to me in a way that I can know for sure that you are real" but, I have to say, so far, I have had nothing, or, at least, I SEEM to have had nothing by way of a response so far, just to be as fair as I can, maybe there is something wrong with me which is preventing me from understanding a divine manifestation that is being sent to me, I don't know 🤔🤔 I'm aware that some Christians might say "hey, John, it's no good praying agnostically, that means you doubt and God can't help you if you doubt, when you pay, you've got to believe" but, of course, that's just it. If I ALREADY believed I wouldn't be asking for any divine manifestation in order that I will have sound justification to believe. So it appears to be a Catch-22 problem. If I don't get the divine manifestation I require then I won't believe and if I don't believe, well, apparently, God can't answer my prayer for a divine manifestation, presuming there is a God, of course, well, that's the whole problem, I don't know if there is or not, just like you, I doubt God's existence, I don't know for sure either way but I just doubt it. I can't see how we all can be reasonably expected to be sure that an invisible, intangible being we have never experienced face to face exists without questioning it, just because a book put together by some largely anonymous church leaders thousands of years ago says so.