How eVTOLs Could Disrupt The $49B Helicopter Industry

[@annunakian8054]

If they say they'll launch in 2025 that means they'll launch in 2030. So many EV companies are way behind on production & burning thru cash. For something like this, they need a higher degree of expertise, legislation, infrastructure, funding & rare metals.

[@CmdrCorn]

It all comes down to legislation and infrastructure. You can buy something similar today for $100k, but start flying it around town and you'll cause a panic.

[@TonkaFire2019]

Most Ev car companies went under without the help of big auto.

[@notapplicable4567]

@@CmdrCorn where?

[@joeking433]

Nah! You're from Saudi Arabia! ;)

[@CmdrCorn]

@Not Applicable There's the Jetson ONE, the Blackfly just to pull up a couple names real quick of production models.. However you can do just as well to build something yourself. Even para-motors which is just a lawnmower engine spinning a giant fan blade and a parachute get the job done... Look up 'electric single seat plane' or something... If I had more money and time I'd end up on the evening news for sure. It just blows me away there isnt more of it happening. I often think this is a big part of the "gr8 reset" and upsetting current paradigms before this singularity in ai, robotics, blockchain, 3d printing, battery tech, biotech, etc all spills over into the lower-middle-class markets all at once and central planners wont be able to keep up...

[@eddienoragong402]

This is an ad for Archer. Joby is at least 6 months ahead, and has been developing eVTOL since 2009. Market cap is nearly $2B, resources on track to certify by 2024, bring services online (with help from Uber and Delta) by 2025.

[@Biersasam]

Did not age well

[@robertclarke7411]

Archer stock has taken off, going much better than Joby my money is on Archer

[@eddienoragong402]

@@robertclarke7411 I suppose your money is on Vertical as well? If not, why?

[@sumitshresth]

it will only raise air congestion and move road traffic into air. For those regular trips from airport to downtown why not invest on bullet train so you can get from airport to downtown in way less than 1 hour that cars take.

[@thunderb00m]

Then you'd have to rub shoulders with the peasants, what's the point of that !? /s

[@sumitshresth]

@@thunderb00m well we can have different compartments with ticket difference. one with peasant and other full with wine giving strippers ready to give you time of life for a few thousand bucks per ticket

[@joeking433]

Yeah, I can see air congestion being a problem. But we don't like trains, so there's that.

[@sumitshresth]

@@joeking433 its not about what you like or dislike its about what makes sense

[@MrVTeta]

Swarm AI can easily solve air congestion. The air is a 3D space

[@Rakusan2]

Upon hearing the price and plans, I think building train tracks and stations would be cheaper and better for everyone

[@ThriftyCHNR]

These products are not for the masses. This is luxury for the elite.

[@Rakusan2]

@@ThriftyCHNR In most cases, trains will get you to the destination just as fast, don't need to be booked ahead of time, and can transport the entire office without needing to be recharged in between. Also do note that many developed countries have shown that the rich will use public transport if it is worth their time.

[@TheBooban]

@@Rakusan2 not only about their time. It’s the filthy peasants they don’t want to mix with. And I agree! I don’t want to mix with them either! Trains do have first class though. It’s a huge difference.

[@joeking433]

Lots of people pushing trains on here! Must work for train companies. I've never ridden a train and don't ride buses. Americans don't like mass transit. It's for poor people.

[@Macgyver46]

@TheBooban you seriously think your better? You and everyone like you is the reason this world is so screwed up.

[@marcuscove]

They have a long way to go. Joby is in the lead, but they currently only have a 150 mile range. FAA certification of these new types will take many years. The time it will take to financially survive the FAA type cert process may eliminate many of these start-ups.

[@joeking433]

Nah! They said the same about Tesla.

[@devengudinas1649]

He said 50 miles range

[@bxkxhxkg82]

@@joeking433 the aeronautical industry have heavy certifications and its difficult to a startup to try to do all the vehicle by themselves

[@chrisn7847]

@@devengudinas1649 Marcus is speaking on Joby Aviation, which is the leader. That has a 150 mile range at a top speed of 200 mph.... Archer is has less range and lower top speed. That said, it doesn't matter. These company's business models are designed for shorter flights. Like 30 miles per trip.

[@FPVREVIEWS]

only a couple have to survive. and they can more easily get additional funding, the closer they get to certification.

[@DaNyBoY46]

“It’s completely silent if you are on the ground” *scrubs audio from all clips of the helicopters*

[@trepan4944]

Glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that.

[@joeking433]

Huh?

[@JamarD421]

Seriously! I thought to myself "Oh? Word? Allow me to hear just how quiet it is CNBC" but sure enough they just talked over the clips with music. Ugh.

[@johntomik4632]

Yea you can't hear it from a couple miles away lol

[@chrisn7847]

@@JamarD421 Go watch the youtube videos from Joby Aviation and see how quiet that vehicle is. They are the leader in this space!

[@shmookins]

Things are progressing so fast I can't even imagine the world in 2050.

[@Tiger1x1]

These evtols can't provide mass transit... Metro or manglev would be a better option for this purpose

[@emmakai2243]

Did you even watch the video? It's obviously not designed for mass transit. It's a premium sky taxi ....very different from metro/trains.

[@thunderb00m]

@emma kai yes exactly. But the need for this is not there if you have good transit. So for all our sakes I hope this evtol fails

[@phantomiforgot3750]

@@thunderb00m I hope it succeeds, because if they can mass produce it and make it more efficient it would change aviation forever, It would make interest in the efficient VTOL design come to more planes.

[@jermainec2462]

This will be for the rich and impatient... Not the poor and humble....

[@rmcc0621]

Welcome to the US where we are not interested in mass transit.

[@temprd]

The use case constantly being touted for this aircraft is lower Manhattan to EWR. Just take the PATH. And if you really hate transferring in Newark, demand your representatives extend the PATH to EWR like they said they’d do 50 years ago.

[@ericcarabetta1161]

Hmm, a brand new private aircraft, or a dirty, nasty, underground bus? Such a tough choice.

[@ain92ru]

@@ericcarabetta1161 American buses could be as decent as Western European ones, but American politicians (who unlike the European ones never stepped in public transportation) has closed the market for very comfortable high-end European buses which Swedish, Swiss or German millionaires routinely use in their large cities

[@pressurizer1]

If those eVTOLs were rigorously tested to be safe enough to transport the developers and engineers' families and loved ones, then customers would get in to them eVTOLs right quick

[@Eskschannel]

They would be vastly safer as you have simpler mechanism and more engines, the main problem is range.

[@BondJFK]

they have a glide ration and multiple motors so single point failure like gear issue like in helicopters will not occur

[@DrJohnnyJ]

I would get in one today. They are really safe.

[@nutsackmania]

@@Eskschannel Wrong, these are completely dependent on very fine control of large motors, something that has only recently become viable at this scale. A solid rocket booster is a simpler mechanism, too--but it's not safer. YIKES

[@nikobelic4251]

They probably would but they aren’t certified

[@timothy2118]

EV's will never be a thing unless we move on from Lithium Ion Batteries. That is the real gating factor. I want EV's to be the future, but with the rising cost and demand for Lithium, I see the industry stalling if we don't come up with a better battery.

[@sa8452]

Don't kid yourself. You're only a spectator--nobody cares what any individual wants

[@joeking433]

Nah! You work for an oil company.

[@heinousanus9352]

Wrong.

[@joeking433]

@@heinousanus9352 He's just trolling you!

[@haihengh]

a typical helicopter has range of 300-400 miles, the electric one is not going to have this kind of range. for the short range it makes sense, but for longer range like 200+ miles, not going to make much sense, the battery is just not going to have that energy density.

[@TheCynicalOptimist88]

Yes it could never replace say a coastguard helicopter because they never know how long they're going to be in the air for and then may need to refuel and leave right away to save more people for eg ... This piece would be for very niche specific purposes like businessmen... Other than that it's just a hype thing with current battery technology and charging rates . Weight is everything when you're an aircraft. Then there's lifting things that's just ridiculously out of reach...

[@JamarD421]

The weight alone is already making me question if this'll get far.

[@helifanodobezanozi7689]

These are basically intended to be used like city cabs, not cross country trains or busses. The range for the average trip is targeted at 30-40 miles.

[@JoeZaccaris]

Why do eVTOLs have to be an "all or nothing" endeavor? Just because they can't fly 1000 miles on one charge doesn't mean they won't have many types of uses in both urban and rural areas. You need to expand your mind and have an innovative viewpoint on these things. It's the same dumb argument I hear about delivery drones --- "a drone can't carry a refrigerator to a customer's house 20 miles away so they will never be viable". Just really dumb arguments.

[@aowen2471]

There's some new battery tech coming, the most immediate are Lithium Sulphur that have double the energy density per kg than current batteries so maybe it'll come together in a few years about the time FAA figures out how to certify these vehicles.

[@garyvermaak9470]

The main helicopter market segments are business aviation, EMS and law enforcement, where payload, range and speed are key, so a hundred helicopter airshuttles in each of the 35 or so global metropolises is not going to disrupt the light helicopter market. Remembered also that when Continental Airlines, merged into United, offered $49, and even free, Manhattan Newark flights from 2006 to 2009 to business class pax. Most prefered to take a longer limo ride and use the travel time productively.

[@gabrielbilate7499]

forgot to mention oil and gas offshore ops, lots of miles and payload

[@garyvermaak9470]

@@gabrielbilate7499 that's why I found Ehang marketing of the 220kg, 22 mile range 216 for the offshore oil and gas industry to be a joke.

[@alankohn6709]

My problem is that a lot of these designs have pretty small lift capacity so a bit of luggage and a couple of larger people and they are overloaded and like all EV's charge time a couple of trips and you're down for several hours recharging. Also too many of these companies are leverage future success on higher capacity batteries and a lot of the new break throughs are in manufacture, material and disposal.

[@David-bg9od]

Yeah extremely unrealistic for the one guy to say "It will make the helicopter obsolete".

[@user9b2]

In the mean time, do hybrids, power those electric motors with generators to get the range and power needed for specific usage.

[@KickassCrusader]

it really would bridge the gap between the real helicopters and problems with battery weight, until that can be solved if it can at a later date, they could even make them modular in nature to be updated so its not just chucking a whole hybrid vtol in the garbage at the end of it

[@ADAPTATION7]

I thought about that but it might also complicate manufacturing and increase production costs.

[@TheBooban]

Thats not how the advantage works with hybrid. Its good for cars because you can stop and refuel. The added weight makes no sense in a evtol when you can’t just land and refuel.

[@manp1039]

it would be intereting if Toyota came out with a hybrid eVTOL, a prius of the skies. I think they hybrid design will be the first successfully commercial eVTOl vehicles.

[@user-pq4by2rq9y]

@@ADAPTATION7 it would be a smaller issue at scale but your point is valid.

[@andrewozzy]

As Evtols progress I think it would be interesting to have like an evtol parking garage for those trying to avoid ground congestion and want a more elegant way of commuting. Having a parking garage of sorts in a city center where 2-4 helicopters can land on a rover type platform that transports the helicopter to a lower deck would be something I have thought a lot about. The rover would clear the landed aircraft and a new rover would take its place for the next landing.

[@grummelameise]

nobody wants that, if they would, private vtols would already be a market.

[@aerialdarkguy]

It will definitely lower the barrier of entry into aviation and attract more interest in the field by lowering costs and could help especially with emergency services. I'm skeptical on the mass transit claims though beyond certain preexisting flight routes/taxi services they could muscle into. Ultimately infra and battery improvements will be the key factors.

[@TheLPRnetwork]

The amount of CGI clips is suspicious, but happy there are plenty of real clips. The design however, is the most suspicious of all

[@joeking433]

GD, there are a LOT of skeptics in this comment section! Do you all work for helicopter companies???

[@MrVTeta]

@@joeking433 People just got used to seeing EV companies come up with goals that were never reached or tooks years longer than predicted.

[@joeking433]

@@MrVTeta Do they know of a company called Tesla? ;)

[@MrVTeta]

@@joeking433 They do. Which pretty much is always behind on promised vehicle launch dates, features launch date such as full self driving, and production output.

[@joeking433]

@@MrVTeta Have you heard of the new Ford Lightning? Or the Ford Mustang Mach E? Or the BMW i4? Those are all hot selling EV's! The Chevy Bolt is only $26k and that is before tax credit! Nice car for so cheap! No one talks about ICE cars any more. That's because you won't be able to buy one in California and other states after 2035. They're pretty much dead.

[@andrewleno591]

WOW! that is absolutely unbelievable, so much fresh and new. How they even come to this, eVTOL!??? Such a inovative naming! I hope they made a patent for this. If try to think more about this... Maybe they should not compare it with outdated helicopter! But with ICEVOLTs! ICE stands for internal combustion engine. Congrats to their marketing team, hope they engineering team as good as their marketing team.

[@CLAPforAnthropology]

Their plan to keep it profitable is to up the amount of trips. But if it can only do two 20 mile trips before needing a charge that would probably take 1-2 hours, I dont understand how that can work. And that range is probably on a perfect day. I just have so many questions. What about on days where there is a 20 knot headwind and it can only make one trip. How would it de-ice/how would it handle icing conditions , it can’t use heat from engines so it would need power from the battery. When the temperature dropped from 60 to 40 degree my Tesla lost 20 percent of its charge. These batteries are no different. Electric motor are reliable, but there is always a chance of failure, Not to mention a bird strike. What happens when one fails at max gross weight. Can the others prevent it from falling to the ground, because it can’t auto rotate. Seems to me like the thing won’t be able to fly in anything but calm, warm days and if your planning on staying profitable by shear volume of trips I don’t see it working.

[@ShakaZoulou77]

Their plan is to take money from investors, not to realy make a functionall machine, I am looking to invest in 3 or 4 of best promissing companies but they all look the same, shady technical information

[@karlossargeant3872]

I can't wait to fly on The eVTOL Vechecles coming soon Awesome Video!!!!

[@pauldannelachica2388]

Nice reporting CNBC. The future of urban mobility

[@hc8714]

long and short answer are, evtol has no chance displacing helicopter by being electric helicopter

[@Re_RAM]

If this sector grows as they predict, how do they plan to avoid congestion in the skies? It's not clear what problem they're solving for with all this investment, would've been great to see a mass transit eVTOL solution.

[@nikobelic4251]

UATM. Unmanned Air Traffic management

[@Tenchinu]

Me: can we stop to get some flying cars? Mom: We have Flying cars at home

[@SumeetSingh001]

Why don’t invest in metro or subway to connect Newark to Manhattan? Or Chicago? A public transport would always be cleaner and environment friendly than any personal EV

[@joeking433]

Because we don't need no stinking trains that no one rides and loses taxpayer money. You're always trying to steal from the taxpayers! Shame on you!

[@aardque]

I love how they say "disrupt," as if the idea of a growth economy is just a scam. It's like, "well, actually there aren't enough helicopters to sate the growing demain, for which they are largely too complicated and expensive to fill, but let's not step on any toes and force consumers to stick to that platform," said no one EVER.

[@ShotAmazing]

If I think about how this would actually work in practice…. A company like archer would probably have a small area in these downtowns to land / take off if they want to be in a good location for workers. They use the downtown helipad in Manhattan as an example. Say they get three of the ten spots there. And say it takes 5 minutes to land and unboard people. So during peak “go to work” hours, say from 730am-830am, that’s 4 people x 3 evtols x 12 ( 60 min / 5 min) = 144 people per hour. At $100 a person that’s $14,400 revenue. And that’s probably with ~36 evtols operating at $1000 per hour. For a half hour trip including loading and unloading people, that’s $18,000. So gross loss is $4,000 per hour. And that’s with no downtime at peak demand. I don’t see how this is either efficient or profitable. Trains seem 1000x better. What am I missing???

[@Grumbledookvid]

None of this stuff is viable until energy is cheaper

[@jim5148]

Other than the power plants and rotor configurations used, how will this be any different than helicopter service that's been available for 50 years?

[@lepidoptera9337]

It won't. It serves exactly the same purpose.

[@tommygunz368ify]

The numbers don't make sense to me. At 4:15 the lady quotes these things at 3-5 million a piece. Then she quotes helicopters at 4.5 million. For less than $1 million you can buy a Bell 206 that carries 6 passengers that weigh in over 1,000lbs. They even admitted that evtols are very far from the payload capacity of standard helicopters.

[@ding9633]

@ 11:52 what's an electric engine?

[@Vegetasinghyadav]

Yes the answer is yes. Finally the future we all hoped for. Evtols will fill up the sky like all those future movies.

[@FerociousPancake888]

I think it will be quite a while before we replace heavy lift helicopters with EVTOLS because of the battery storage issues but it will happen eventually. You just can’t use an EVTOL to lift & set a huge transmission tower on a mountain with our current tech yet but I’m excited to see what happens in the sky crane industry with EVTOLS.

[@Chris_at_Home]

I worked a job for many years where I was transported in a helicopter to mountain top communications sites in the Arctic and with current technology an EV helicopter would never work.

[@atomicskull6405]

Maybe a traditional single rotor helicopter with a powerful enough electric drive but no these contraptions will never replace single rotor helicopters in heavy lift because they have comparatively high disk loading which means they have a fundamentally less efficient lift system. A large slow turning rotor is more efficient than several smaller faster turning ones i.e. compared to a helicopter they have to expend more energy to generate the same amount of lift.

[@user-pq4by2rq9y]

Evtols are out of the question of anything but light vehicles. Hybrids however could become a thing.

[@clintmusgrove6736]

EVTOL's will not do heavy lift operations and they're not saying they will go for that use. SAF will lower the emissions of helicopters but the cost of flying choppers will not go down enough to match the EVTOL's estimated 80% reduction in maintenance/operation costs, compared to helicopters. EVTOL's will grow a transportation segment that most of us haven't even considered because it hasn't existed, just like we couldn't imagine making a video phone call from a small computer in our hands, just 15 yrs ago.

[@JoeZaccaris]

You need to stop jamming a square peg into a round hole. eVTOLs were never meant to be heavy-lift vehicles. But they will serve a very important role for fast air transport of humans and light cargo over congested urban areas. People are also forgetting that these things will eventually become autonomous which greatly expands their use cases in all kinds of situations. You will NEVER see helicopters becoming autonomous.

[@tsensuke5259]

This wasn't a news piece, it was an infomercial.

[@lookingforwookiecopilot]

Since electric flying machines don't burn off fuel, they don't get lighter as they fly around. Helicopters can be too heavy at their point of origin to land at their intended destination, but still take the flight if they are going to burn enough fuel on route to become light enough by the time they reach that destination. I don't know how common this is in the commercial world, but it will be an eVTOL limitation. Then there's the question of how long it takes to "re-chsrge" before they can take the next flight. A helicopter can re-fuel in like five minutes.

[@saulgoodman2018]

$4.5 million for a helicopter? It's like half of that.

[@eric4946]

For a passenger/transit ready helicopter ? I don’t think so… You can find stuff like a jet ranger for $1.7 used but you’re not getting a proper 6 person for 1-2m I would think,

[@saulgoodman2018]

@@eric4946 these evtol's don't carry 6 passengers either.

[@eric4946]

@@saulgoodman2018 they don’t carry any passengers as it stands, if they can’t carry ~6 people they’re pretty much useless from a carry capacity point of view .

[@Oooonumbers]

Yes and no. Some are less some are more. A Robinson R22 is probably around $300k last time I ever looked while something like a Sikorsky S-92 would be 20-30 million. Military helicopters like a CH-53 will be even more. $4.5 million is in the correct range for a light turbine helicopter like an H125.

[@saulgoodman2018]

@@Oooonumbers I'm not talking about Military or luxury helicopters.

[@agps4418]

lets not forget who we are. as humans, we can get things done if we set our mind to it. want eVTOL to work? it will. want eVTOL to die? it also will. it really depends on our mindset. what's really happening for sure is, those people behind the 49 Billion industry wont just sit still and let money get away from them. Not just the producers, the users, but also the lawmakers and regulators.

[@auro1986]

how? by changing their name from helicopters to evtol

[@smggl64]

Helicopters cant fly like a plane

[@luisenriquegimenezm.1210]

Great info, thanks.

[@1locust1]

It will be interesting to see the first appearance of an eVtol aircraft in a movie or television production.

[@patpatpat999]

And how would you know? It's all CGI anyway.

[@bavariancarenthusiast2722]

@@patpatpat999 CGI is been done in many movies, if they are real - you will know!

[@geeeee8268]

Unless they take me to exactly where I need to go in a city, it will be pretty much pointless. Except maybe in instances where there is a huge traffic. And even then depends where the traffic really is. It's sort of like riding subway from outer borrow and having to transfer. You might get on express train and make 2/3 of your way in 1/5 of the time. But then get stuck on a platform and riding local 1/3 of the way for the rest 4/5.

[@helifanodobezanozi7689]

Uber and another EVTOL company, Joby, are teaming up for exactly that reason. You book a combined car/EVTOL trip from point A to point B with a single app. Don't be surprised if Archer either teams up with Lift, or starts their own car based ride share division. The Archer CEO has also hinted that landing in the streets may be a possibility on a future model.

[@benwillvv]

Very well reported. Thank you! Eager to hear about more of the companies, like Beta, that are launching as well.

[@FPVREVIEWS]

yes, and also lillilm. and others!!!

[@ArnaudJoakim]

eVTOLs are very cool! Looking forward to seeing those flying around!

[@simoneglobemaster]

As a professional worker in the aviation industry, I am extremely skeptical about these eVTOLs, there are certain safety features of the helicopter that are impossible to replicate on those type of vehicles due to the nature of their design. And I love how the producers keep promessing quick certifications to stimulate investors while the reality is far from what stated...

[@jlangevin65]

These aircraft have safety advantages that are impossible to replicate with helicopters. Don't try to tout helicopters as exemplars of safety, because that's ridiculous.

[@simoneglobemaster]

@@jlangevin65 negative that wasn't the purpose, but good luck pulling out an emergency maneuver in case of a complete failure of the battery... Moreover, as you probably know, the helicopter safety record is stained by mostly accidents traceable to obstacle collisions in flight and cfit, which could easily pertain eVTOL considered the similarities of the sector of operation...

[@manp1039]

@@simoneglobemaster we will see as this technology evolves.. there is nothing prevent electric helicopters from co-existing with multi rotor electric flyying vehicles.. And likely they will co-exist for a time as technology continues to evolve. but the abilities of a multi rotor electric i think do have some advantages that can be exploited as well.

[@jlangevin65]

@@simoneglobemaster A complete, sudden battery failure is extremely unlikely, but the machine could be built so that half of the rotors are powered by one battery and half by another. There are no such options for redundant power in conventional helicopters.

[@simoneglobemaster]

@@jlangevin65 Unlikely not impossibile, the helicopter still have one more chance to survive, a manouver called autorotation, that can not be performed by eVTOL. And even though it does not apply to every helicopter, the redundancy exist, is called multi engine

[@lucn6173]

it is an ad for Archer and its collaboration with United Airlines.

[@MOBMJ]

This would be amazing. For me, for example, I live in Southern California. For me the nearest airport is less than 20 minutes away from me. But the problem is it is not an international airport, so if I want to go to another country. Which is what most of my traveling is, outside of the US I would have to go to an international airport, which is LAX. With traffic it’s about 2 hours away. If I could take a short helicopter ride from Disneyland international airport to LAX, and then to my international destination, that’s a win-win for me. Because I don’t like stops, but I also don’t want to drive two hours from where I am to LAX.

[@markjmaxwell9819]

It's a great idea And the range anxiety of electric vehicles has faded thankfully with the widespread adoption of electric cars. Once solid state batteries become mainstream the appeal of these types of vehicles will only accelerate. Some newer more efficient designs have yet to be tested but I see a big future ahead for eVTOL aircraft. 😎👍

[@jamescrud]

How the hell can they convince the FAA to certify this thing in 1 year?

[@devengudinas1649]

Never it takes a minimum of 7 years

[@nikobelic4251]

They won’t. 1 year certification is a pipe dream

[@hafizuddinmohdlowhim8426]

the person who designed a helicopter already thought about multi-copter and there is a reason why helicopter is always the solution.

[@manp1039]

technology has evolved significantly since the first helicoptors took to the air.

[@hafizuddinmohdlowhim8426]

@@manp1039but doesn’t it a lot better than helicopter? Helicopter just need 2 blades and it can fly straightaway.

[@definingslawek4731]

2:22 Is the RPM lower? That's so strange to me considering in all the FPV drones I build, the smaller you go the higher rpm you have, and the larger the lower rpm. My guess would be that 1 single giant rotor would have a much lower rpm than those 12 really small rotors.

[@zapfanzapfan]

Probably tip speed, not RPM.

[@definingslawek4731]

@@zapfanzapfan I thought tip speed on all rotor aircraft is roughly the same, which is exactly why the rpm is different across different aircraft. I watched a video with an aerospace engineer explaining why we choose different speed motors for the drones we build, and the answer was that you gain 'free' performance by increasing the rpm of the motor until the tips start going too close to the speed of sound, at which point you lose efficiency. He said that this is why (allegedly) a helicopter and a little drone have very similar top tip speed, as the tip speed on both approach the speed of sound.

[@zapfanzapfan]

@@definingslawek4731 Reducing the tip speed seems to me the only way to reduce noise. I don't know how the overall performance calculation changes when going from piston or turbine to electric.

[@Alex-us2vw]

When I see these first thing I wonder is if they can autorotate after a failure. Do these small rotors store enough energy to arrest the descent and land, do they even have a collective control to do this maneuver?

[@user-pq4by2rq9y]

These things have six rotors... why would you ever autorotate that thing?

[@JoeZaccaris]

Auto-rotate doesn't work with props this small. The main advantage of eVTOLs over helicopters is their redundancy, whereas helis have multiple points of catastrophic failure.

[@hxjp]

great report, thanks. so much to think about. do xflares, or other solar events, affect these types of engines?

[@GA-yv3zw]

NYC has planes colliding on the ground I can only imagine what's going to happen when you have a bunch of planes in the sky above new York

[@jeffreymartin6182]

Did he really just say they were carbon-free?

[@FPVREVIEWS]

carbon free emissions during operation, is more like it. hey, it's. step In a good direction. and with carbon composite airframes, if design is good, there is no fatigue life, so in theory can fly forever, unlike legacy airframes.

[@jeffrhodes283]

Love it.....good luck finding the pilots needed.

[@JoeZaccaris]

These things will rapidly become autonomous --- the only pilot needed will be a CPU and GPS receiver

[@nikobelic4251]

@@JoeZaccaris eventually the newer generations will be, but they did expect evtols to need about 60 000 pilots by 2030 and by then we may start seeing the first pilotless evtols. EASA expects autonomous CAT (for evtols) by 2035 Volocopter is hoping for 2032 but given that the aviation industry moves slowly it will probably be closer to 2040 or so. Also, when they are autonomous there will still be a need for pilots on the ground to manage multiple vehicles. Why would any pilot do that when there will be other planes to fly from on board and not from the ground. The military has a drone pilot shortage in part for this reason… Unless EVTOL ground pilot pay goes up… and the “flight hours” transfer to being able to move on to the airlines (but I doubt it)

[@kokovox]

Trains are way more efficient way of transporting people.

[@taytaytay871]

These eVTOLs are gorgeous

[@thelovertunisia]

I think the best long range solution would be diesel electric version where the diesel creates the power for the electric motors.

[@Discover.Aviation]

And the answer is YES !

[@johnslaughter5475]

I would love to see them being operated out of Spokane International Airport as air taxis to the towns within about 50-60 miles driving distance. For instance, people in the Coeur d'Alene, ID area could go to Pappy Boyington field on the north side of CDA and take an air taxi to GEG, which is a straight line distance of only 35 miles. Right now, everyone is facing 1+ hour drives to GEG, plus the gas and wear & tear, and then 2-3 hours to get aboard their long haul flight. If these could be developed to go 400 miles, the people in the greater Spokane area could fly to Seattle, Portland, Boise, much easier.

[@ac583]

Laugh. Or, you know, you could be a responsible human being and encourage your local government to invest in trains. Your idea of "taking a helicopter to another airport only to then take a taxi to the airport you want to go" is so celf-centered it's insane.

[@johnslaughter5475]

@@ac583 Where did you get the idea that I'd be taking a taxi to the airport. The heli-taxis would be going directly from Pappy Boyington field to GEG. I'd get off the heli-taxi, walk into the terminal and then to my flight. As the capabilities are improved, heli-taxis could even be picking people up from local towns and taking them into CDA. The hour long drive, usually at around 3:00am, would be done away with. No more cost for that transportation. No leaving the car in long term parking that requires a shuttle bus to get to the terminal.

[@lelandkelley2199]

I invest in Joby ! It’s the best .

[@rolflandale2565]

Helicopters are/can also E-vtol. The terminology is *electric verticle* take off or land. The difference of 'eVTOL" are *electric multi supoort purpulstion engines* evolution. Perhaps call it 'EMSPEVTOL' 👀( or something fancy😏).

[@FPVREVIEWS]

people are completely underestimating the potential of distributed propulsion electric aircraft, in terms of safety. NO single point of failure. even autopilot and battery.. and pilot.. etc. etc. and also underestimating the efficiency gains (6X) over conventional propulsion, giving them the range and performance needed to best fuel powered aircraft. also super low cost, and relieving pressure on existing infrastructure. nobody seems to get it. I guess you have to work on this tech to understand fully. even then it's inspiring to see it tested, and you see new ways to make it better and use cases. fun stuff.

[@JohnnyC10071959]

Outstanding video and such great technology.

[@trepan4944]

I love new tech and love traveling solo via car l but if we want to go electric and make a real impact? Build a maglev train up and down the east coast or across the country. The tech is operational right now in Shanghai and coming online in Japan. This eVTOL is a rich man's toy. Same as modern helicopters.

[@TheBandit7613]

We take jet powered aircraft across the country. Maglev is still too slow and acquiring properties from coast to coast is WAY too expensive. Easy for China as people can not own ground. They rent the ground from their government.

[@trepan4944]

@@TheBandit7613 I'm on your side in this regard, I'm pointing out how eVTOL shares the same cost prohibitive traits as EVs, its a rich man's toy. I can buy a Corolla for 22k brand new. A tesla model 3, with less range, for $45k+

[@TheBandit7613]

@@trepan4944 Agreed. And I haven't heard a single person bring up the weakness of our power grid. What happens when 100,000,000 people come home from work and plug in their 240 volt, 50 amp car charger. POOF! There goes the grid! I saw several Nissan Leafs selling cheap. Turns out, they need new batteries. Nissan is charging $16,000 plus installation. Sorry, no thanks. That's like buying 2 engines (installed) and a transmission and a set of tires.

[@joeking433]

Americans don't need no stinking trains! We don't even ride buses! Screw that, that's for poor people!

[@trepan4944]

@@joeking433 also kinda agree...

[@jamaicasysbm2580]

Pure speculation of the growth of this technology

[@eric4946]

Yeah it’s crazy to me how much money is going into this business model while pretending the regulations, will be like the ones people use for flying in cornfields privately, the demand will be like it is in the busiest cites in the world, and the infrastructure will just appear.

[@symmetry08]

Battery will never get cheaper, as there are finite amound of resources.

[@rodkeh]

These flying deathtraps will never replace helicopters. Helicopters have been doing this job for decades and they do it far better and safer than any other VTO vehicle.

[@gcb345]

Once upon a time, jet aircraft were flying death traps. Think about that the next time you see A FIGHTER PLANE SCREAM THE JET NOISE OF FREEDOM OVER YOUR HEAD.

[@rodkeh]

@@gcb345 What idiotic claptrap! You have to be an American!

[@gcb345]

@@rodkeh Yes I am! BTW it was Americans who invented the airplane in the first place. It was also Americans that gave you windows, apple, and android. what ever device that you're replying on you can thank us! And if you're European, you can thank us for not living under Nazi or Italian fascism, or under the U.S.S.R's iron curtain. Have a great day. 😄

[@rodkeh]

@@gcb345As I said, "You have to be an American." Typical propaganda...

[@gcb345]

@@rodkeh Hey, hey, hey, now. Wave the flag and turn up the rock-and-roll🎸 so high that your ears bleed when you say that! Otherwise I won't think you're sincere.😄

[@veowsaku]

An EV for 300 miles range with less than 6000ft ceiling will be the absolute limit for this vehicle class.

[@JoeZaccaris]

6000 ft. is ridiculous --- even helicopters don't need to go above 1000 ft. most cases

[@wesleyk.8376]

Buying up EVTL while it’s $2.07/share. Load up!!

[@davidx.1504]

Nice piece about eVTOL vehicles taking off in the aviation industry, but why is archer aviation the focus when JOBY is the eVTOL leader?

[@brunogauthier1]

"Batteries will get better with time", or not. Unless a breakthrough in physic, the battery power to weight won't be able to compete with combustion engine.

[@nikovenag4110]

its a cool idea.. I also thought about starting to develop something like an amateur project, but then the question is: Where the user can park these copters? On the street? Not possible as they are wide, even on wide boulevards you cannot do it. Over buildings? Then the city needs many helicorder pads. As a user I won't buy it unless I can park it almost anywhere I want. And with current infrastructure, this is not possible.

[@joeking433]

Just park it in the backyard.

[@JoeZaccaris]

Most cities can already accomodate these eVTOLs through existing helipads and parking lots and garages. Seeing them expand into small towns and rural areas will be a lot easier because of the abundance of wide open spaces.

[@hubschenk1652]

Helicopters are expensive to maintain because of their complex mechanics. Their disadvantage is the limited top speed; Leonardo is trying to compensate for this shortcoming with the AW109 with an Osprey-like concept. Hardly successful due to the high price (we are talking about +$70 million). eVTOL is a promising solution, although the limited energy density of the batteries (weight/kWh) is currently a hindrance. Hydrogen-powered generators would be a solution for larger loads.

[@puggleski6097]

Not to mention truly unmatched energy inefficiency. Natural gas to electricity to battery storage to mechanical energy. Jesus. 10-15% efficiency at a maximum over the energy lifecycle.

[@lawrence.centinales]

we dont need more lanes we need more transpo. im sold.

[@DrewWithington]

So in summary: eVTOLs could be a bit cheaper than helicopters for short range air-taxi roles, but won't have the payload or range to take over from helicopters in any other role. Even if eVTOLs were half as expensive as a helicopter for getting to an airport, most cities already have effective public transport systems as an alternative e.g. London has the Heathrow Express train that takes 15 minutes. What a load of hype!

[@thatwasinteresting3319]

Still the biggest problem with this and all EVs is the battery. In aviation weight is key and batteries are very heavy which limits useful load. With limited useful load they have limited utility

[@joeking433]

But they will be cheap to build and batteries aren't a big percentage cost of a $4 million eVTOL like they are in an EV!

[@JamarD421]

That's why they'll be used for short trips as planned.

[@BondJFK]

@@joeking433 In order to get lift and range to fly you need less weight corresponding to available fuel, In jet engines you can dump the fuel or required fuel to weight ration can maintain, But in EVOTL even if battery don't have enough charge to attain a lift or range weight remains same. Hope you understand what i mean, If not will give detailed explanation

[@joeking433]

@@BondJFK I don't understand your point. For all I know you're blowing hot air out your ass like all these other PR clowns here. They're just PR jerks trying to support the oil industry. You can see that right? You do realize all these guys are PR guys just bullshitting, right? Right? If buyers want a lot of range they need to go with helicopters. You do realize a lot of people won't need that much range and a lot of companies will buy eVOTL's, right? Trust me, they will sell like hotcakes so get your stocks now!

[@ksnax]

Plug-in hybrid eVTOLs are the real future here. People keep wanting to jump from A to Z, ignoring the huge benefit potential of steps in between. We've been seeing the same mistake with cars, expense of materials, and the range limitations pure electric drivetrains impose, ignoring the massive environmental and cost benefits that small battery PHEVs can provide.

[@lepidoptera9337]

Hybrid drivetrains don't provide any advantage to either cars or aircraft. They are merely an advertising technology for the car industry.

[@ksnax]

@@lepidoptera9337 Unsubstantiated opinion doesn't help much either.

[@lepidoptera9337]

@@ksnax Last time I flew on a plane with a hybrid engine... oh, wait... I never flew on a plane with a hybrid engine. :-)

[@ivychua4091]

Price ?

[@frankyflowers]

3:31 is made to look like its an evtol but its not. they actually can't lift the weight of people for 5 minutes.

[@JohnS-er7jh]

I get nervous enough flying in a regular airplane and helicopter. There is No way I would fly in an eVTOLs, not now and not in years to come. I dont' see this disrupting the helicopter industry that much. For areas near the water, perhaps electric/solar/hydrogen powered hydrofoil ferries or a Wing in Ground Electric Aircraft (plane/boat hybrid craft), these types of vehicles I can see having an impact in certain areas of the world.

[@David-bg9od]

For certain thing EVTOL would be significantly better. But they certainly wont make helicopters obsolete. There's still so many roles a EVTOL cant cover.

[@Cardinal008]

The 25cm drone of my son is sooo loud when starting and flying. Don’t want to know the noice of these evolts!

[@seanmcnulty79]

Not saying these are bad and even with better light rail and subway I could see a place for these. I could also see these caring cargo as well. In mountains areas these could be useful. I don't want to be a pessimist but how would these perform in bad weather?

[@joeking433]

Light rail and subways have never succeeded and for all intents and purposes are dead in the water.

[@YOURJOURNEY]

So what happens when helicopters starting using a battery bank to power its propellers? lol

[@Valsiphez]

So in PCs, bigger fans are quieter. How would smaller fans in evtol be quieter than helicopters?

[@msoldate]

Battery weight is the biggest hurdle. Currently roughly 58 lbs of charged batteries equals 1 gallon of fuel about 6 pounds which gets lighter as the fuel gets used up where it doesn’t as the battery charge gets lower. If the battery tech gets lighter this industry will explode.

[@digitaldistribution487]

if the title is a question the answer is always no.

[@JosueMartinez-ww1vj]

Why?

[@digitaldistribution487]

@@JosueMartinez-ww1vj because these are just silicon valley ponzi schemes to eventually cash out on public investors. Electric helicopters will never be a thing due to this little thing called the laws of thermo dynamics. These prototypes are nothing more than light weight shells carrying batterys, as soon as you need to put in people and equipment they wont work.

[@TheLPRnetwork]

It did say 'could,' didn't mean It 'would.' Not even close Maybe the small scale stuff, but the whole industry? Na.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@JosueMartinez-ww1vj Not even remotely enough range/endurance.

[@JosueMartinez-ww1vj]

@@PistonAvatarGuy what are the numbers? Miles/charge? Scientists are researching for new batteries, so in a few batteries are going to take over oil.

[@wininets]

Replace helicopters, thinking small, replace rural to suburban passenger travel and monopolize intercity travel. Leave interstates for long distance travel and trucking.

[@stevenhe198911]

At the time of social conflicts, new industrial revolution is more needed than before,so at least eVTOL is a start~ However since human used to build cities around rivers and roads for generations, if eVTOL want have more impact, I believe best ways is to build new concept of cities to prove it's advantage . But for now it seems how to integrate eVTOL travel to cities' current development is more practical option. Nevertheless my initial thoughts are :people who live in rual area maybe prefer to use eVTOL for work in central cities(due to high living cost ), but in that case the vehicle need to be designed to carry more passangers. And when you near the central area, eVTOL need to land a special station to avoid tall building collision(due to lack of AI control that support by huge data collection). And after landing ,passangers can switch l to bus (or else) to continue journey. So anyway, still a lot of work need to be done but at least it's a start.hmm

[@helowriterseahawk7470]

The lady was right about the long certification fights for the Bell 525 and AW609. eVTOL aircraft with first-ever propulsion, flight control, and structural technologies have none of the history. When your eVTOL can match the performance, handling, and crashworthiness of the original Hughes 500, you'll have a viable product. Even then, the idea that eVTOL will decarbonize and democratize flight is hype -- air taxis will get their electricity from fossil fuels, and they'll need all-new infrastructure to serve cities. Like the Segway scooter, they will have a place, but they won't change the world.

[@quoderatdemonstrandum5442]

Retired pilot here... So let me get this right. You're proposing that an eVTOL will be soon be able to take off at max gross weight, and then fly an FAR Part 135 air charter trip, 200 nautical miles, in actual IFR weather down to minimums, from point A to point B. Miss the approach. Then divert to a legal alternate airport. Then shoot another approach there. And land safely with with a 45 minute fuel (energy) reserve? As per the Federal Aviation Regulations? ROFLMAO... Never happen!

[@Djanthonymosley]

Don’t sleep on Air traffic controllers that’s gonna come with this

[@nikobelic4251]

Air traffic management for these vehicles should eventually become automated allowing ATC to deal with more traditional traffic

[@seaplaneguy1]

New Engine Type (NET) tech is combustion distributed power which makes all EVs obsolete. It is also 200 times less CO2 with RE fuels. EVs are obsolete in many ways. NET can fly 25 to 360 mph for roadable version or 0 to 360 MPH with VTOL version. Use gasoline, Ethanol, natural Gas. Make fuel for $1/gal. Active drag reduction cuts drag by 50%, no computers needed. NET costs about 20 times less than a Joby or Archer for 100 times more range. NET can have a taxi for 5 for around $100k and Joby/Archer are $2 mil. NET can replace the need for airlines, but EVs cannot. NET could have common man owning NET, but not with Joby or Archer...

[@Trag-zj2yo]

They should also be autonomous, eliminating pilot cost

[@devengudinas1649]

Ha

[@shaun4950]

This can only be good news 🙏 🙌

[@bubpori5105]

More Low Resistance Wing in Horizontal Flight .Dirigible Actuators for Vertical Lifting Body to Take off with Less Juice more Range !

[@Viivek2309]

Can you imagine how much noisy our cities would be if hundreds these vehicles are flying in them.

[@JoeZaccaris]

You seem to forget how quiet cities were before airports got built

[@dennissalisbury496]

Military spending will drive eVTOLS deployment and testing offering significant advantages over existing rotary wing designs followed by passenger airline applications.