COAL vs. CBTO & Measuring Max CBTO w/ Hornady LnL OAL Gauge

[@glock31]

is it me or is this the only person who actually knows how to explain all this? Subscribed!

[@bryanohalloran9001]

Me too, I know also ! I have been using RCBS Precision Mic's but they work out to be expensive, covering all my calibers. Have recently ordered the Hornady system, but the Covid 19 pandemic has messed up the postage as well. I believe there should always have a couple of ways to do the same job.

[@glock31]

@@bryanohalloran9001 He just has a way of explaining everything where I actually understand what he's saying. I don't want to speak ill of other channels, but Panhandle Precision is my go to for all things reloading. He also does a great job explaining the kestrel.

[@thelarry6864]

I'd pay real close attention of this Man's content. It's "spot on". Numbers matter, it's that simple. Get "your" numbers, document them, and do your development. Kudos to you again for your time and effort to share this.

[@relay93]

I was one of those new to reloading that was constantly changing the bullet seating depth until a bullet rolled off the table and landed on the nose of the bullet. That's when a light bulb came on telling me there will be difference with each bullet and there should be a better way to seating. That's when I started looking for a video concerning bullet seating. The video that made the most sense was Panhandle Precision. Thank you Sam for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with all of us.

[@mountainman78629]

With lead tips if they aren't shaped identical then cartridge length won't be. I knew measuring to the lands was the way to do it but I never knew how

[@briggans6240]

Next, look into bullet runout and concentricty 😅

[@caseykuntz5249]

I absolutely understood what you were getting at with the difference between the custome and standard modified case. I really appreciate you helping me figure out how to figure out how to get the most out of my rifle.

[@2WheelTT]

Can't thank you enough for your contributions to bettering the shooting community. I started loading in the early 80's and have found all of your video's to be a priceless refresher course with modern day advancements. Thanks again.

[@sylviacandler5541]

If you will drill and tap a case that has been formed in the cartridge chamber, the measurements are much more consistent...well worth the effort.

[@presentalinkwalterbak2426]

Sometimes after acquiring certain information, we end up with more questions than answers, and that's just fine. Out of all the videos that i watched so far, this is one of the best! Awesome work, thank you!

[@longBowHunterII]

for it to sink in I may have watch this video over and over. I am off to a great start. thank you for taking time to explain COAL & CBTO

[@tompeterson3296]

I normally don't make a practice of watching the video's that deal with this topic....gives me heartburn to read some of the responses...lol. But, you do a very good job of explaining these things. I am the original inventor of the Stoney Point line of OAL Gauge, Modified Cases, Bullet Comparator, Headspace Comparator, and Rimfire thickness comparator, cleaning rod guides, and a few other associated tools. Most of this work dates back into the 1980's and 90's. It was difficult early-on, explaining to some hand-loaders how to use these tools....especially before video and you tube video were available. I had to get the cliff-notes version info printed on the back of the packaging back or on a small instruction sheet back then.....Grin. Then, as now, lots of folks will claim to make a better mousetrap. I spent a good deal of time and energy to arrive at some of the features found in these tools....and tried my best to keep them affordable and relatively easy for the average reloader as well as the advanced reloader to use....as well as many bench-rest and long-range shooters. You'r never going to satisfy everyone.... But for the dollar spent....I still think it would be difficult to surpass these tools you nicely explain here. Nice job! ....and.....Keep up the good work Hornady!

[@tompeterson3296]

One tip I could give you.....is to insert. a wooden dowel through the muzzle against the bullet tip.....thus sandwiching the bullet between the wooden dowel and the push rod on the OAL Gauge. Then you can "jockey" the bullet back and forth and feel the "stick point" of the bullet with the rifling. Doing so.....I was always able to hold 1/2 thousandths in the results. But the big thing is that you use the same technique each time. The method I said above just makes that a bit easier. Best...

[@CZ49]

I bought your tools before Hornady. Great tools

[@guytitley2708]

Sam explains things very well.Following his recommendations has really improved my groups for 243 Win and 7 mm Rem Mag

[@oArticFoxo]

I just love how you simplify your information so anyone should be able to understand

[@1968dwill]

This video is long, but it is the best! Incredible amount of education. I’m recommending it to my nephew who does reloading and hunts in South Dakota

[@fmann7545]

That was one of the best, through, in depth, videos on seating I ever saw. great job!

[@Frostytravels]

Sir your videos make so much sense out of reloading its amazing. Thanks for making these. It really helps out.

[@bjm8315]

I’m new to reloading and ran across this video and I’m glad I did. I’ve watched video after video on this topic and after this one, a light just came on. What a great video and so well explained. Thank you for taking the time to put this out for all of us to enjoy

[@gmino8038]

Wow, what a video! You answered basically every single question that I’ve had figuring out lands, ogive, coal, etc.

[@PanhandlePrecision]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@GetUrPhil]

Not what I was taught and I'm glad I have seen this video because it makes more sense than what I've been shown and have seen on other videos. I was looking at bullet OAL and was coming up with different numbers, I knew why but never did get a Hornady Lock 'n Load OAL gauge and modified case. That Will change Very Soon!! This Video has helped out greatly, Thank you. Very Informative and I will need to try this now that I know!!

[@volcanicash4893]

I’m new to reloading. your explanation really helped me to understand this obviously crucial concept. And yes, you do make sense the more you talk about it.

[@SargentRay]

I had heard of many of the concepts talking with the guys out at the range, but man this video really helps me connect the dots now. I'm new in both rifle shooting and reloading (just over a year) and i only shoot an AR-15. But i set a goal for myself of shooting 1 moa groups or better @100yds right from the get go. At first when i got the AR i had been longing for for years as my retirement gift and had envisioned myself dumping mags just for fun out at the range. But living in Canada, this reality isn't too common, at most ranges you're only allowed to bench-rest. So i started to shoot that way and i sort of gotten hooked with precision, shooting alongside guys with super precision rifles and all every week or so. So i also started re loading and i have to say it's the perfect hobby for me now that i'm retired from law enforcement. I sort of have a decent load now and i am pretty close to my 1 moa group goal most of the time. But of course i'd like to improve and i wonder if i could apply the techniques you detail here in your video to me and my rifle. I mean i know along the way someday i'll have to get a good bolt action rifle but for the time being i'm happy just trying to get the most out of my AR as possible. I'm stubborn (my ex would say) and i'm the only one at the range putting that much effort into an AR. All the other AR owners just shoot factory ammo at 50 yds and don't really care about accuracy. For instance i'd like to know if my bullets are far from the land or not and if changing that (if at all possible) would improve my accuracy or not. At any rate you have given me a lot to think about. Thank's for taking the time to make these videos and sharing them with us.

[@MrOffshore]

I’m very new to this...my reloaded comes in a few days...I’ve reloaded shotgun shells, this is a different beast. This video was VERY informative and has opened my eyes to a few things I was not aware of...thank you!! I appreciate the great detail!!

[@gunsnwater2668]

Thanks, I never really knew how those tools are used. Clear and concise instruction. You are a good teacher.

[@stephenhair5501]

I just went to the range today and shot a series of loaded rounds using your CBTO technique. And I must say that I'm very pleased with the results. Your explanations are spot on. It took me a view times viewing your video, and really absorbing what you were getting at. It all makes sense now. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and helping me become a better and safer reloader.

[@buddybbuddyb3687]

Great video Sir, After not reloading precision rifle for several years this was a good review of the passion i had for reloading. I recall loading 22-250 Rem with Hornady A-Max 75 gr. in my Rem 700 Action 1-8 twist, Krieger Barrel with .1875 inch of bullet in the neck giving me .030 off the lands. Rifle shot one inch or better ten shot groups at 200 yards for about 1,200 rounds, then came the throat erosion which was .100" or so. from new. Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge of shooting with us all.

[@gilream]

Sam, you can buy an appropriately sized wooden dowel rod at a local hardware store for next to nothing. I run this down the barrel to bump the bullet out after taking a measurement. With the magazine removed it falls right onto the bench. Just remember after punching it loose to back the dowel out 6 or 8 inches so it won't interfere with the bullet on your next measurement. I'm older and my PRS rifle weighs too much to pick up over and over! Thanks for another enjoyable video...measuring the CBTO is the most difficult concept for most folks to understand and you did a nice job here...i like the artwork!

[@robertfusco7415]

Great instructional series on using the Hornady OAL Gauge, I have been MIS- using one for ever just"averaging" readings and hopeing for the best Thank you, Bob

[@jd2757]

Almost 2 years after producing, this video still delivers. I have fired fewer than 200 practice rounds (factory .223) and never reloaded a single rifle cartridge. Subscribing to this and all your videos has been absolutely amazing. Thanks for putting all these tools and techniques out for us !!

[@04eire]

really appreciate all your experience! You're a very clear, natural communicator.

[@goneballistic]

This is the best reloading resource on KZbin. Awesome videos Sam

[@nickydumas9455]

Thanks big time. I watched/listened/learned this first thing in the morning so i’d have the best chance of retaining it. I got so much! I know teaching can be trying but please continue to as you are an excellent instructor. The video’s length is just what it took to substantiate your points. And you did.

[@PanhandlePrecision]

Glad it helped!

[@jeremyfowler7505]

Thanks for the great video. I'm a new reloader trying to dial in a 300wm and this made me feel much better about the whole process.

[@75rbhill]

Great video and great channel, glad I found it. I've been reloading for accuracy for years and it is great to find channels that either confirm what you're doing or gives you new ideas and information. This time I learned its pronounced O-jive and not O-give. Thanks!

[@gregscott2563]

Finally ogive explained and how to use it. Thanks for the excellent video.

[@curtismichael8045]

Thanks for going into such great detail. Your explanation finally got through my thick skull! Now, it makes sense!

[@thomasgregg3612]

Great Every reloader needs to watch this video and then rewatch it again , Great content

[@TheDiscipleofTheLord]

Great video! I've been reloading for over 2 years now and still learned alot from your video.. You sir have earned a new subscriber today!

[@davidkirkman1135]

This is hands down the best video on this subject I’ve seen. I learned so much from this. Thank you for putting this video out.

[@jeffspringer7374]

Thank you for doing this video. Being fairly new to this reloading, I really appreciate all the info on the tools and techniques you shared with us.

[@1done599]

Thanks for the really detailed explanation! I put this into practice and look forward to experimenting with the results of different CBTO lengths.

[@1done599]

I have shot the ammo created with this method from two different rifles. The result was the same in both. Great shot groups. Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge!!

[@xkaos6]

Thank You Sir!. Just starting with my own setup and handloading .308 Win for competition. While digging the knowledge and good tips to prepare myself the best I can i find Your videos top and so rich in good helpfull tips. I realy like the depth of the presentation of your interaction with that matter with all little details about what to focus on and look for while operating. Thank You!

[@kokanut92]

Thank you Sam, very well-reasoned, as usual. I am glad to have somebody who can explain what is important to accuracy, and what is getting wrapped around the axle with unimportant details.

[@ianmcminn8127]

Thanks for taking the time. As a complete newbie your explanations are understandable and extremely helpful in learning the art. Very much appreciated. Keep up the great work👍

[@robertdunn4979]

Thanks for the detailed info on getting to lands with the available neck lengths with different projectiles. Getting into loading 300wm for first time.

[@andyredding9381]

Hey there. Thank you for the detailed video! Just wanted to say that your teaching style is really good. You are clear and concise, and do an excellent job explaining each point. (And that's coming from a shop teacher with 30 years of experience.) It makes so much sense to make sure all cartridges are measured and sized CBTO vs COAL. Consistency=repeatability=accuracy. Can't wait to get a Lock-N-Load OAL Length Gauge and get more precision out of my handloads.

[@craignapoli]

Hi there, I want to tell you how much I appreciate your passion and the detailed common sense approach you put into making your videos, of all the reloading instructional videos that there are on Utube yours are the most detailed and easiest to understand, you have taken me from a complete rank armature to a very well rounded, well versed and consistently accurate shooter with my very own reloaded ammunition, thank you so much for your attention to detail and extremely accurate and informative presentations. Kind regards Craig down under.

[@additudeobx]

Great video Sam, thanks. You said everything is different for each rifle, each case, each barrel, each bullet which is 100% correct. I'd like to add that it is most pronounced between bolt guns and gas guns, self loading. In my AR-10 the closest I can get my bullets to the lands is about .060 before the cartridges will no longer fit into the mag. So in my case of using an autoloader, COAL needs to be respected in the sense that CBTO will allow the consistency between cartridges but not exceed COAL so that the cartridges fit into the mag. On some of the smaller bullets, I usually shoot 175 SMK and 168 SMK so I don't have the problem of bullets not having enough seating depth, but that is a real possibility with smaller weight bullets. Reloading for autoloaders is different than it is for reloading for bolt guns.

[@brandond.4201]

I read in the book "Pursuit of the Perfect Cartridge" minimum of half a caliber should be seated in the case, awesome video thank you!

[@PanhandlePrecision]

Thanks for that info. Perfect!

[@juliusjames5577]

Great video! Well done and great communication. Thanks for making it.

[@ronmacklin6155]

Excellent discussion. Really enjoyed the study. Thank you for the time put into this as it is invaluable for those serious about reloading, getting the most out of their gear, and doing it safely.

[@edbarndt]

Outstanding video Sam. I am brand new to reloading and have been educating myself before I make any bullets. This answered all of my questions about seating and how to use the measuring tools. I have purchased all of the tools and hope to get my accuracy and distance up. Thanks for taking the time to help us newbies.

[@claverton]

such quality info you put out there...nothing as good as this on youtube on this topic

[@hamneggs1]

Thank you so much for posting such a detailed and easy to understand video! You gave me to confidence to reload with the knowledge you have offered. Keep up the awesome work!!

[@PanhandlePrecision]

Glad it was helpful!

[@schrrobert]

Great video. Best I’ve seen on the topic. Perfectly answered a couple of questions that I couldn’t work out regarding case length and it’s affect on CBTO measurements...thank you!

[@jamalkleghari446]

Best Indeed,,undoubtedly

[@craignapoli]

Thank you Sam, your videos are always superbly put together and presented in such a way that i immediately understand your instructions, they are all packed with highly relivent, practical & instantly applicable information and this one was no exception. Thank you again so very much mate.

[@butchcarrone3336]

Great video, I am just starting to load for long range, great information for me. Love all of your videos, keep them coming.

[@capt.martin5169]

Your videos have been tremendously helpfull! Thank you very much! Congrats to Jake also on his recent victories! Very cool to see his progress. Thanks again!

[@Switches13]

Killer video as always! I love the hard work and dedication you put into these!

[@craignapoli]

DITTO!!!

[@johnharvey892]

Great video. I learned a lot by watching this. One of the biggest rookie mistakes I made when I first started... Was switching brass in the middle of reloading. I started with fired monarch brass and all my measurements were to spec. I switched to Remington brass without resizing. And my overall length was not to spec. The rounds still fit and worked... I consider myself lucky.

[@robertgore9449]

Many thanks Sam. Your depth of knowledge is amazing and you always present things in an interesting and relevant way. I learn a ton from you.

[@frenchywashmo]

Great video for sure, we fellow reloaders love it when someone can make sense for us. Thanks a bunch

[@craigjordon9404]

What is the problem with a 5 dollar modified case?

[@pieyed1302]

Another outstanding informative video chocked full of tidbits to make us better reloaders. Thanks for passing on your wealth of knowledge so that we don't have to learn everything "the hard way"! Tom

[@jivadaya6439]

Just found your channel and you sir have blown my mind... Thank you

[@mr.horseshoe2301]

Thanks for making this video. Started reloading with pistol ammo and plinking rifle rounds. Time to tackle precision rifle ammo. Much more complicated!

[@brucepreston3927]

Great video! You have a way of getting things to make sense to me. I've been watching a bunch of other peoples videos on youtube and they always seem to skip over the very minor details that make everything click. I appreciate your hard work! I'm getting all my reloading equipment in this week and I'm very excited to get started!

[@stuartmarkman769]

You are the first person that made this operation make sense Than you.

[@codya5333]

Very helpful thank you, doing all my research before I start reloading

[@williamjohnson2896]

My first experience with jump and poor accuracy occurred in the late 60's with a 222 Rem and Hornady SX bullets. Jackets are so soft that good groups could not be had with any freebore. Benchrest accuracy occurred when the SX was touching the lands. Later on using this as a guide I found that the tougher or harder the bullet jacket the lass difference the jump makes in maximum accuracy. I still find that true today, so, if it won't group with "jump" try seating out, sometimes it works.

[@alexallen5633]

Thank you for this video and illustrations. Was having trouble wrapping my head around figuring modified case to fired case and how to compensate for the deference. I was thinking backwards. Looks like I'll be going through your archives and watching a lot more of you videos !!!

[@deadbird-back]

Thanks Sam!!! I appreciate all your time

[@chipsterb4946]

I hadn’t thought about the shoulder-to-ogive measurement as being the only one that’s truly fixed. I’ve had new brass where the base-to-ogive measurement is substantially shorter than once-fired brass, even shorter than SAAMI minimum. Thanks! Edit to add: if you take your CBTO measurement then subtract the base-to-shoulder measurement, that will give you the fixed shoulder-to-ogive measurement of your chamber. That won’t change except for throat erosion over time. Then you can check the base-to-shoulder measurement for any given batch of cases and adjust your CBTO goal.

[@paulwatson4616]

i was watching contingency x video of a nrl shoot and a young man starting shooting his stage and i thought he looked familiar and then it showed his name and i remember you telling him to slow down, it's good you are letting Jake shoot in those competitions

[@PanhandlePrecision]

Jake has improved by leaps and bounds since that match. It's been very cool to watch.

[@yukon4545]

Thanks Sam. As always, good stuff. I take a deprimed, fired case, measure the datum/shoulder distance, then take difference from a commercial modified case into account when I do the CBTO measurement. Had a head scratcher, when I was trying to load to just off the lands last summer. New brass, wouldn't chamber. WT??? Yup, jamming the bullet. Came to the same conclusion. Thanks again.

[@redrock425]

Good idea I'll try this as I'm just about to load with new Lapua brass. No chance of getting near the lands if loaded to magazine length. At 2.85" COAL the CBTO is 0.19" off the lands. Any less and I'll have to single load them. Tikka Tac A1 in .308. Excellent video, highlighted all the issues I've found so far.

[@MagnumMike44]

It might be worth mentioning this to those who are new to reloading, if you buy new commercial brass cases, like Federal, Remington or Winchester, it's a good idea to run them through the resizing die just to get rid of imperfections and inconsistencies that might exist within a batch of brass cases.

[@scotttomlinson1057]

What a great video!! I have a Ruger #1 in 7x57 and want to make it the best I can and this info will help me get some variables under control. I have been reloading since I was about 14 years old and always went with COL. I have ordered a Hornady L&L to up my game!! Thank you so much for your great presentation!

[@johnshilling2221]

Your son is a very fortunate young man. You are a great teacher. I'm assuming that translates into a good father. Better than the Medal of Honor. Didn't expect to say anything like this, but when our society, Hollywood, TV, you know- all the media glorify and celebrate people that perform an act of heroism. They call them Heroes. And their actions justify the title. I believe that the far greater Heroes, who day in and day out, spend time and raise their children in the way that they should go. To me, these are the true Heroes. Unacknowledged and unsung Heroes who couldn't care less how about the praise.

[@Mark-uq9km]

Excellent information. Reloaders absolutely need to know these dimensions. They will either be getting poor accuracy because the distance between the ogive and lands is too far, or, more dangerous they will be creating dangerous pressure spikes because there is no distance between the ogive and the lands

[@Dwayne7834]

Great information This is the second time I have watched it. I now have the tools to put the information to use. I was always having trouble with the oal . Now maybe I will get constant measurements using CBTO thanks

[@mthompson]

You said best at the end..."This is all hands-on experimentation." Every barrel, every bullet, every case is different...and they change over time with use. Take repeatably accurate measurements of "today", record detailed notes with dates, produce accurate-to-each-other closely barrel-matched ammunition, and adjust as you go and take new measurements over time.

[@bryanmarks4070]

Thanks for squaring me away I just bought all the measurements tools and a bushing die set for my 6.5 Creedmoor. So I’ll just take good measurements with a new case,fired case, and modified case if it’s within 1-2 thou. Then don’t worry about it. Thanks Sam!!

[@JustRandomProjects]

Man thinks for taking the time to film this video. Very well done!!

[@jjs811]

Thanks for sharing. You always make things so easy to understand!

[@Booglehead]

I appreciate the effort you put into this video. I was hunting for these exact answers as I got hung up on the same issues you are talking about! You answered my questions and put my mind at ease to just experiment but get the right gear to do the job. Thanks again!

[@vincef5832]

Whenever I meet someone that tells me they reload, I tell them to watch Sam Millard/Panhandle Precision KZbin videos and read the text on the site. I make the beginners write it down. I’ve been thanked by a few of them.

[@joelclark2130]

Thank you again I learn a little bit more every time I listen to you. I am semi-new to the reloading world. I like the points that you make what makes a difference and what really doesn't matter

[@lw1005]

You need a patreon, I've learned heaps from your videos and wouldn't mind donating

[@vinago100]

What an exellent video, lots of great information and very well explained. New subscriber here!

[@milo555100]

MASTER Handloader is Sam. If I could only have the same organization. Does your bench (always) look like that? The way you teach is truly exceptional. I like the way you go over the difficult concepts very thoroughly so we can truly understand. I am very grateful for your instruction.

[@williamjohnson2896]

Ever thought about using layers of scotch tape on the head , trying in the rifle until you just feel the bolt touch the tape on closing then record the thickness of the tape stack, adding it to your measured CBTO. I often do that with headspace gauges when I don't have a NO GO or FIELD gauge to use but need to know. Keep up the good work.

[@E.L.RipleyAtNostromo]

Great overview, thanks. I went through this exercise a couple of years ago, and used an Innovative Technologies Digital Headspace Gauge I already was using to determine my sizing die setting. Following recommendations in an article by Larry Willis at Innovative, I make a modified case from a resized case by cutting collet-like slots in the case neck, then putting in a bullet and chambering the round. The lands will push the bullet back into the case, then I can measure the base to ogive with the same digital gauge I used to determine headspace. In that method the lands can theoretically grab the bullet though and affect the measurement, so I’m thinking about getting this Hornady gauge just to verify, as that would eliminate that possibility. I try to seat the bullet as close to the lands as I can get (off by .002 or .003 in a bolt gun, and .005 or .006 in an auto) while still fitting in the magazine. Thanks for the final insight on the affects of having the bullet jump as much as 0.100”. I never thought that would be accurate at all, always try to get right on the lands, but I guess consistency is more important than distance as you say. Just subscribed based on this video, so thanks for all the valuable tips here.

[@MrJohnanson]

Thanks for this video. Great to see how others do this. Learned a lot

[@brianmadison436]

Thank you seriously !!! I was fight with coal this made so much more sense !!

[@jamesturner7728]

Nice to see you Sam I still use the old video you made

[@ryanjameson4160]

Thank You for all the free knowledge

[@lkreed87]

Truly appreciate all the time and effort you put into these videos. I’ve learned so much from your series on load development and just wanted to say thank you.

[@francoisst-aubin432]

The only good thing about that crappy corona virus, is that I had the time to find your chanel !!! Great work, you have a new Canadian groupie !! Ha ha ha. Keep up the good work, now I understand my mistakes. Take care.

[@walt5797]

What a great presentation, Thanks Sam.

[@ronwhittaker6317]

thank you bubby, you showed me some things I didn't know I needed thank the hell out of you for that,

[@OFFTHEBEATENPATH1977]

You are so great!! Thanks for all of the incredible info!!

[@mikemayronne9775]

Excellent, Many Thanks as I just started Reloading & have read, watched vids & many do not go into DETAIL as Yours. And Answered many Ques. that I had & steps to OAL that was confusing, THANKS MCM

[@repairfreak]

Wow, I’m finally getting some of my questions answered by your in-depth excellent videos. Very cool measurement techniques used. I previously watched your video about full length sizing with bumping the shoulder back .002 after each firing. Now in this video you just explained my other question of how to measure chamber and control the length of case to the ogive of the bullet profile to keep a consistent distance off a particular barrels lands. Very cool tools to use, I’ve learned a-lot so far. Question is: how in the heck can anyone with a progressive auto indexing press ever achieve consistent reloads to your precise methods used? I just purchased a Redding T7 Turret press for my 1st press. I assume reloading very precise cartridges using your methods will be very time consuming, however safer, more reliable and have great consistent accuracy. Thanks for the tutorial my friend. ✌️😎👍 🇺🇸

[@wvideoyahoodk]

Just love your videos here in Denmark :-) really learn a lot.