Col.

[@priscillajervey8345]

What A great job and well executed. This should clear up the so-called preexistance of Jesus who so many hold on to with clinched fist. But it has been my experience that so many Christians don"t care to investigate such a confusing and/or misunderstood issue. They merely attend church with the attitude " Tell me pastor what do I believe today?"" Unfortuantely so many of our pastores don't teach biblical truth, but old worn out, centuries- old pagan doctrines and don't care to hear another;s perspective or biblical interpretation.

[@stevenwebb6253]

Something to think about: What if……. Jesus was created? In fact, he is the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15), repeated at Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:” Is Jesus not the Amen? Proverbs 8:22 “Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.” Hmmm…..Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way……. Who is the way? John 14:6 “Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”” If Proverbs 8:22 isn’t talking about Jesus, then who is it talking about? Please continue with Proverbs 8:30 “Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time;” Who could this be? It sounds like God the Father, Jehovah, who has no beginning, first created the son (see above), then, the son, being God’s master worker (Contractor, sub-contractor, as it were😀), created everything else. John 1:3 “All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.” I’m going to repeat Jesus’ words to Satan when he tried to tempt him at Matthew 4:10 “Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”” I reiterate, just as Jesus did, “HIM ALONE YOU MUST RENDER SACRED SERVICE”

[@GatheringJacob]

Half way done listening but want to make a point of Prototokos. The Messiah was not only prototokos in rank, although he was not the first man (adam) created, the first created earthly born! BUT the fact is, Messiah was ALSO prototokos in time, because he was first earthly mortal man to be born from the dead, the first heavenly man of the new creation! This is the point of the Colossians text.

[@5mjc]

Which translation does the unseen God come from.

[@5mjc]

Mankind are a reflection of God in the image and likeness.

[@5mjc]

God is the Potter we are the Clay

[@GatheringJacob]

EXCELLENT! Well spoken, clear as a whistle!

[@rosemerrynmcmillan1611]

Much needed teaching, thankyou.

[@sketchbook1]

"For by Him all things were created... so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything..." Case closed. Preexistence AND Preeminence.

[@sketchbook1]

That changes nothing about His eternal pre-existence as the Word@@JettedGod-ward

[@priscillajervey8345]

Absolutely!@@JettedGod-ward

[@priscillajervey8345]

So, what is your point?@@JettedGod-ward

[@priscillajervey8345]

I totally agree.@@JettedGod-ward

[@dorothypoole8908]

I attended college and took Greek under Bill Wachtel years ago. A great explanation by a truly humble Christian friend.

[@sketchbook1]

It's not just Paul who was arguing about Jesus' preeminence and preexistence. JESUS HIMSELF openly claimed His own preexistence. Jesus said, "if you don't believe 'I AM,' you will perish in your sins." (John 8:24) He also said, "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." (John 17:5) and there's the famous statement: "...Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)

[@plumtree8713]

Read the context jesus said if you don't believe I am the messiah you will die in your sins

[@plumtree8713]

@@JettedGod-ward yea, I don't believe Jesus is the one true God.

[@priscillajervey8345]

Jesus was in the mind and plan of God from the beginning. God also stated He was crucified before the foundation of the world. So, was he cricified twice??

[@priscillajervey8345]

I am sick to death of those, and there are endless numbers of illiterate Christians who run like a race horses to the old worn out and overly used "I AM" in an attempt to clain that Jesus was saying he was God. Jesus was in the mind and plan of God before Abraham, Jesus was merely saying that God gave Abraham a revelation of the coming Messiah. Where does it say: " before Abraham was born I am"???? Thru God's revelation to Abraham, he forknew of the coming Messia and was happy to see his day thru God's revelation to him..

[@priscillajervey8345]

Jesus, was saying if you don't believe "I AM" the Messiah. In verse 19 Jesus told them they neither KNEW him or his father! What about his own words do you not understand. You Trinitarians are noterious for taking verses out of their context and creating your own absurd pagan doctrine. No wonder it is considered a mystery - no body can understand it, least of all those who make a feeable attempt to explain it! Even it's most ardent defenders!!