Who Created Marvel: Stan Lee, Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko? || Docuseries - 20, 21 by Alex Grand

[@ComicExcitement]

Alex 😃 Thanks for the tremendous amount of intriguing information regarding various historical perspectives!💪

[@kevinpillar6934]

So it would be reasonable to say Stan lee took more credit then deserved

[@Clay3613]

Ehh, not really. The media and fans put context into places there was none. This further irritated Ditko and Kirby, thinking that Stan himself was making claims. Kirby got beaten down by the lack of success in many of his solo comic creations and having to fight Marvel for ownership of his artwork.

[@cha5]

Absolutely he did, this goes all the way back to 1947 when Stan claimed that Martin Goodman the publisher of Marvel had created Captain America in a pamphlet called ‘Secrets Behind the Comics’ which Goodman hadn’t, Joe Simon and Jack Kirby did

[@Clay3613]

@@cha5 I'm sure Martin had Stan's hands tied since they were family. That's not proof of anything.

[@cha5]

@@Clay3613 It's proof that this habit of denying other people credit is nothing new to Stan, Not that he didn't in the last few decades admit that other people had some involvement in Marvel's success and that he wasn't the sole creative force behind Marvel to his credit.

[@Clay3613]

@@cha5 What's really telling is that all these experts and even the artists themselves never came out publicly denouncing Stan. It's always in fanzines or biographies. Explain that "proof".

[@tomcatomas]

Really cool, thanks

[@michaelhughes8057]

To clarify my previous comment, I liked both Marvel And DC Comics growing up. I still do! Both I feel their older Comics are better. Although sometimes they put out some good Comics, if you read their reprints title s, you can sometimes feel how both companies lost something over the years. Especially after the 1980's. But I love it when they sometimes do intercompany Crossover titles!😀😄

[@michaelhughes8057]

If not for Lee, Kirby, Ditko, Heck, Ayers, Everett, etc. Comicbooks would only be for kids! However, I liked DC Comics growing up. EVERYONE sings the praises of Marvel. But I feel DC Comics made many contributions to the Comics field. As did Archie/MLJ, Charlton, Goldkey/Dell, etc. and many other Comicbook Companies fron the 1960's, which are. Sadly no longer around!🤒🤕

[@thedoncrazephaze5375]

Stan Lee is pretty much a Thomas Edison...look it up if you dont know why I make this comparison.

[@AceLM92]

Pretty much. I'm not fond of Lee but at least he's not evil like Bob Kane. That c***sucker was Walter Keane levels of a-hole

[@PaulSaether]

Once Martin Goodman realised how successful Stan and co's comics were becoming I'm sure that he would have been advised by his legal guys to not let those freelancers get any credit which could be used against his company later. Stan was possibly ORDERED, as editor and Full Time Staff member to claim all the credit for himself and therefore The Marvel Comics group. By the early months of the Marvel Universe the waves that Siegal and Shuster were making over at DC would have been worrying him ( and other publishers) more than a little. So, although Stan began giving certain plotting credits to chosen artists he would have to claim original conception on behalf of himself and therefore on behalf of the guy who paid his (Substantial) salary?

[@petermj1098]

Stan never owned the characters. Marvel ALWAYS owned the characters. That’s how it works in the comic book industry. Writers and artists get credit but the company owns the rights. Stan only did what Martin Goodman told him to do which was to make superheroes rivaling DC. Stan worked for Timely for 2 decades before it became Marvel. He was used to writing and editing already. Martin Goodman told him what kind of genres to write and he did. Stan was mentored by Joe Simon as well while he was making Captain America comics and did write and edit some himself. When Martin changed the company to Marvel and told Stan to write superheroes he got a chance to change things.

[@paulocosta4744]

Will we still be vociferously discussing this a hundred years from now? :-D

[@paulmay1729]

As much as I grew up liking Stan Lee, it seems like his stories bounce around a bit too much and claim too much to be entirely on the level.

[@mickeybeavison1053]

KIRBY is king

Read "Stuff Said!" NO doubt who was the artist and who was the bullshit artist! Marvel made millions off Kirby just in merchandise back in the 60's. stan is in hell taking credit for the devil's work now.

[@michaelhughes8057]

Lee, kirby and Ditko all created the Marvel Universe. Let's leave it at that!

[@dinomonzon7493]

I always consider Stan Lee the true mastermind at Marvel. While artists like Steve Ditko & Jack Kirby were important to the Marvel Universe, it was Stan's imagination that defined WHO the character is and WHAT he/she's all about. A good writer (ie: Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, John Francis Moore, Larry Hama) can compensate for poorly drawn comics; but a good artist (ie: Jack Kirby/John Romita, Sr./John Buscema) can NEVER make up for a poorly told tale. Its too bad artists almost always get all the fame and attention; take DC, until recently, Bob Kane was said to be the only creator of Batman, yet Bill Finger was the one credited with developing Batman's persona and background and gave him the identity of Bruce Wayne; in fact he improved the original Batman character design.

[@cha5]

For me Marvel was a joint co-creation, especially considering the fact that Kirby and Ditko plotted the stories and Lee scripted and dialogued them, as for Bob Kane I consider him closer to Lee in having little problem with taking credit for quite a lot of what other people did, ranging from Kirby to Ditko to Wally Wood.

[@AliFareedMC]

that explains Stan lee writing Millie the Model before Ripping off Jack Kirby

[@petermj1098]

@@AliFareedMC​⁠​⁠​⁠Kirby was more interested in religious, cosmic and epic stories. Stan made Kirby draw human characters with typical human lifestyles and struggles who happen to be superheroes. If Kirby actually wrote the stories all along then why is his solo work more about Gods, and not about human characters with human obstacles like he did with Marvel?

[@martyemmons1859]

Even IF Stan Lee is the (criminal) mastermind and (diabolical) genius that 'created' the Marvel Universe, that is no excuse for not giving the original art back to the artists.

[@joncarroll2040]

The early Image comics put to lie the idea that a poorly written comic with good (or at least popular) art won't sell. The writer is ultimately important but the artist does most of the heavy lifting which is why the average professional comic artist gets out one book a month to the average writer's 3 or 4.