Conical VS Flat Burrs | Single Dose VS Grind on Demand | Niche Zero VS Ceado E37s

[@francinepoirier3645]

Best video to assist me to make my decision. Love the magnifier presentation on the grind coffee beans. Well done!

[@iBarista]

Thank you Francine :) Glad the video helped you out!

[@khalid0790]

Great comparison, I appreciate the big effort you put in ....god bless.

[@iBarista]

Thank you I'm glad you liked it! Bless you too!

[@jacobporter2213]

Great review! Very thorough, I enjoyed this very much! Thank you for the effort, you crammed a lot into a short video and i learned a lot.

[@iBarista]

jacob porter Thank you, I really appreciate the feedback and I’m glad you liked it! :)

[@GoTellJesusSaves]

Very interesting particle view under the microscope. Thanks for this video. Good review.

[@iBarista]

Glad to hear you enjoyed the vid!

[@chavitavb]

I have the Niche and love the grinder very much because I switch coffees around a lot. I just can’t help and think what a flat burr grinder would taste like. I’m considered a eureka silencio grinder, but I know I wouldn’t need it lol. Impulse buy!

[@iBarista]

That’s how it always goes 😂

[@LorenzoNW]

Now I'm confused. Every other review I've seen concluded that the Niche Zero with its conical burrs brings out richer textures and more chocolatey notes while flat burr grinders tend to bring out more clarity and fruity notes. But you're review concludes just the opposite.

[@iBarista]

Not all burrs are alike. I have have a video about the ek43. Which confirms what you say, the coffee it produces is high in clarity and distinct notes of fruits and florals etc.

[@LorenzoNW]

@@iBarista The grinder I'm really curious about is the Momentem. Looking forward to seeing some reviews after it's released.

[@goldencalf5144]

Hang on, I thought conical burrs gave you more body and flat burrs gave you more fruity notes. Isn't that why conical burrs are preferred for espresso and flat burrs are preferred for pour over?

[@iBarista]

It’ll depend more on the grind geometry. I’ll admit that, not all burrs are alike. But from my experience flats give a fuller texture while conicals lean towards the fruity notes. But yes, there are burrs like the fellow, unimodals etc. which suit pourovers more. Of course everything is subjective and this was a comparison between the e37s and the Niche. This is what I love about coffee; I’ve had a totally different experience with the ek43 (my other vid). But same goes for every other grinder :)

[@afebresm2]

I was just researching this last night! Thanks for the great video, as always! I’m curious, how often do you clean your grinders?

[@iBarista]

Andres Febres Thanks Andres! I usually do this every 1.5 to 2 weeks depending on the usage.

[@streetballazzz]

Hey Nice video! I did not understand the ceado retention part. Is it 4-5 gr after cleaning? Before some coffee settels on the burrs and other components? Does the grinder really popcorn so hard? How much coffee would you have to fill in the hopper to stop this and how would you get it out after pulling the shot? I think the tunnel that reaches to the hopper can hold like 30gr

[@iBarista]

Yes, the popcorning happens that bad because of the speed of the grinder. So the beans keep jumping around. Also usually manufacturers recommend keeping the hoppers at least 25% filled up, this is also for keeping a more consistent timed dose, since it’s gravity fed. Thank you!

[@speedracy]

According to most coffee folks on KZbin (Brian Quan, Lance Hendrick) Conical burrs have a more chocolatey flavor profile and Flat have a more fruit forward profile. In your video you stated the opposite, may want to correct that for folks making a buying decision based on this video.

[@iBarista]

This is a very complex matter but let me try to keep it short. Brian was comparing the niche to a kafetek max. While he compared them he used the exact same exact ratios, profiles and timings. It was really cool to see the difference that way, but different grinders have different settings. It is generally known that flats produce a rounder and more textured coffee while conicals have a cleaner (texture) and more acidic pop. (When dialed in to that specific grinder and coffee) Of course there will be differences in brands, sizes, profiles etc etc. Sprometheus had the same conclusion as me and the feedback I’ve gotten on IG and KZbin confirm my thoughts and experiences of the two types. But again, this was my experience with the niche compared to the ceado e37s. I’ve had for example on another vid, a totally different experience with the ek43. That’s what makes this so great. Thanks for your feedback!

[@speedracy]

@@iBarista interesting, Brian just put out a DF64 + Niche video and he reiterates the point I made above. I have seen James Hoffman make the same point as well, when he was doing the "endgame" grinder series. But regardless I am interested in your follow up video on this topic to see how you came to the conclusion regarding textures, balance and clarity of Conicals vs Flats. After all we are talking about taste and that is the most subjective and personal topic there is! Loving your content!

[@iBarista]

@@speedracy will watch it soon, very interesting. Hopefully when I have some free time I’ll make a follow up vid. Thanks for the good vibes!

[@gabrielsvl]

In Brazil we unfortunately don't have niches for sell... Then, my only option of a high end grinder is Ceado...

[@iBarista]

Gabriel Marques the Niche is by online order only, so you can check their website for delivery dates etc. You might have to wait a while.. but it’s well worth the wait.

[@gabrielsvl]

@@iBarista I know it, but in Brazil, in my state they can tax it up 80%... Kinda sad, but in next travel out Brazil I'll buy a Niche. Thanks a lot for the informations on your video, that's a great compare.

[@iBarista]

Gabriel Marques yes that is a lot! You are welcome 🙏🏼

[@Shadowguy456234]

So, thanks to your video I was *just* about to buy a Niche Zero...but here's what stopped me. I live in Switzerland (non-EU country BTW) and though I shouldn't have to pay UK VAT of 20%, especially since I also have to pay import taxes + fees to CH anyway, apparently they charge it to everyone. Some might say this is worth it, but I feel we are all cheated enough in life, I would rather avoid it when I can.

[@iBarista]

Understandable. I was lucky enough to get it before the full on brexit rules where implemented. Or else I’d also be paying through the nose. Thankfully there are other good options these days for not (too) much more money.

[@Shadowguy456234]

​@@iBarista Yep, we are a bit spoiled for choice :) Personally I decided on the Eureka Oro Mignon Stark 65 since I can get it for about 480 EUR. Thanks for your reply and the informative video in any case.

[@ЮрийРоманенко-ы8р]

It is no correct. Take Ceado e37sd as right single dose machine-grinder.

[@iBarista]

You are right. But this video was meant to compare different things, one of those things was also hopper vs single doser. Not single dose vs single dose. But maybe next time 😊

[@P1Fanatic]

Nice review but aaargh. I really fancy a Niche Zero but the whole thing about conical burrs give fruitier notes puts me off as I prefer darker chocolatey flavours for my coffee. So hard to know what to trust especially as I wonder what % of people could honestly taste the difference (consistently) in a blind test with similar grinders but conical vs flat burrs.

[@iBarista]

I get the frustration haha. But to be honest, it was more noticeable because it was a side by side. And you could always slow down the extraction a bit to get those notes out more :).

[@greenishbluelabel]

Oh, the mighty Simonelli MDX are awesome in lot lose settings either. Pretty consistent, easy to single dose mod. I have one and I appreciate it a lot!

[@iBarista]

I believe that grinder is the same platform as the Eureka Zenith if I’m not mistaken right?

[@greenishbluelabel]

The mdx is the same Zenith but branded by NS

[@iBarista]

@@greenishbluelabel I really need to get my hand on one of these grinders one day. Keep hearing good things about them.

[@greenishbluelabel]

Hope you can find it. I have moduled my for single dosing as I said. It is indeed a good grinder for such thing. It clumps, though. WDT and RDT are enough to handle that. A nice distribution tool and tamper end solving the clumping as well

[@philindeblanc]

Interesting video for comparing 2 grinders, but, now we have grinders like the DF83variable that is super low retention and SDose with changable burrs. The real question remains...The burrs. Taking away workflow and retention issues. Just on flavor we need to look at Ceado burrs vs the Niche Conical. You describe the taste difference of the Ceado not being so bright but with body. So using SSP, or the DF83 DLC burrs that come with it, or another 83mm burr set , maybe Ditting, or other like the new LeBrew burrs...tasting AND what beans used. Today, most espresso is Specialty coffees, like medium roasts, like City roast, and some lighter...So which beans work with which burrs best...This is the details of what is left as importance to coffee hobbyists . Maybe you can do such a vdieo to help us out?

[@munkybiz9562]

Thanks for that, mate 👍🏽 However, it’s like comparing apples and oranges regarding retention. The grind-on-demand model of the E37 was designed to be used with a hopper full of beans and for regular use, as in a cafe.. so the retention in the chute doesn’t really matter much. There’s a single-dosing version of it, the E37SD. That one has negligible retention. I own the cheaper version, the E5SD.. I’m a poor peasant 😢.. but absolutely loving it. The NZ is very hard to come by where I’m from, so the Ceado was a great alternative, with the added advantage of having flat burrs.

[@iBarista]

You’re welcome 😉 Well the point of the video was to show the differences of the two types of grinders and not so much a “which one is better”. Just because I was getting a lot of questions about the pro’s and cons of the two types and which one they should buy. Hope to get a chance to try the e37sd and/or the e5sd. Really curious about the two. Thanks for the feedback!

[@philindeblanc]

@@iBarista No doubt a helpful video. What you compared is not really 2 kinds of burr types so much, but most of the emphasis was on the make up of the grinders. Would love to see a video on different burrs specific to different coffee beans, as this seams to be the tough area to pin down. We hear all this clarity, less body, or chocolate vs brightness and fruit flavors...I am onto my 30th bag of beans and switched grinders already, and still waiting for me to say...WOW...that is what I remember having 10 years ago...Beans have changed!! And I think this is perhaps the reality..or I am not so sure what is happening. I have gone to numerous "nice" coffee shops charging $4 for a shot of espresso(usually these days a double shot), and I am not impressed...One place I did enjoy was Blue Bottle coffee, they did a very good job, yet, I am not sure if I would enjoy this as a everyday espresso. :-)

[@JasonAlexzander1q47]

How much does the niche cost and where to buy it?

[@iBarista]

You can order it via their website at nichecoffee.co.uk

[@pranadistribution6033]

Thanks for the effort. I'm curious what the result would be using the E37SD instead of the hopper model.

[@iBarista]

Prana Distribution You’re welcome glad you liked it :) Me too! Would love to test it!

[@michaelrosales2692]

I bought a kit and it was easy to turn mine into a single dose. I do find that 4 attempts to dial it in is very accurate. But started charting beans and dial location as a better reference point. The hardest is when it’s darker beans going to lighter beans. Very informative video. Thanks

[@glenntomlinson2834]

I have a mazzer mini paired with an ECM Technika IV, my question is, would the Niche be an upgrade? Or should I just get an OCD ?

[@iBarista]

Hi Glenn, tough question! The niche could be considered an upgrade if you consider these reasons: 1. Do you like to switch up brew styles? 2. Are you using (relatively) expensive coffee’s and like to switch them up during the week/day? 3. Dialing in or chasing the ideal brew time is to wasteful in your opinion? For me personally all 3 are answered with a ‘yes’ so it would be an upgrade for me. Concerning the ocd; that’s more to do with getting a consistent shot. I’m using a leveler from another brand which costs like 20% of the original ocd’s price (Motta). I’m very happy with it :) hope it helps

[@Dustmaker]

what microspope is that ? can you connect to a PC ?

[@iBarista]

This was some pocket microscope I found online. It’s pretty simple and cheap and it doesn’t have pc connectivity.

[@ssjcell]

any reason why you didnt go with a monolith, or eg-1 for a single dose grinder?

[@iBarista]

Adel Hodiwala the price tag. Getting them into the country I live in would also add about 25 % in tax and customs. Would love to own either one of them but paying $4000,- for the eg or $3000 for the monolith isn’t an option right now unfortunately.

[@ridebmx1983]

Thank you. That Video helped me very much to decide. I just ordered the E37S.

[@pspfreedom]

Great insight on the particle shape. By the way, how was the process of acquiring the Niche? You know, shipping costs. Was there any hassle during the import process? Thanks

[@iBarista]

You’re welcome 😉 Price was with shipping included (if I remember correctly). I bought it before the Brexit was finalized, so didn’t have to pay additional import taxes etc. I have no idea as of today about any additional costs. But you could always contact customs for some extra info.

[@Freddy_Merckx]

Looking forward for my Niche Zero in black which will be delivered in september. Thank you for the nice comparison anyway. I think the Niche is the go to grinder for most people. Great product, great value for money... I already love it before I have it. 😅😍

[@iBarista]

MacLoving You’re welcome! I agree and I’m confident you’ll love it even more when the delivery arrives! 😊

[@rickknowlan8949]

I did the same calculation - wasted coffee cost - and it made it worthwhile to switch to a low retention single dose grinder, basically breaking even in less than 2 years. Can't beat that!

[@iBarista]

Exactly! Plus the fact that it doesn’t hurt me mentally when dialing in a new coffee :)

[@garnettbrown]

How about ceado e37sd vs niche zero. Single doser vs single doser Even though their price difference is huge.

[@iBarista]

Garnett Brown If I’d get my hands on one of those I would definitely make a comparison vid!

[@winedemonium]

This is my exact choice right now.

[@iBarista]

Linden Wilkie So which one will it be?

[@winedemonium]

@@iBarista I almost got both.... and then ordered the Weber Workshops EG-1 instead. It's being prepared for shipment. Let's see...

[@iBarista]

Linden Wilkie congrats on your purchase! Now that’s a grinder to marvel at. Would love to hear some feedback when you get it :)

[@makeme.coffee]

Being a practical person, I am not fond of additional workflow introduced by niche. I want to be able to pour grouns coffee directly on PF.

[@iBarista]

Understandable. You could grind directly into the pf but you’d have to hold it and use a funnel. But each method has its pros and cons.

[@miguelcontreras5782]

Cool video, what happens if you mix both grounds?

[@iBarista]

Hello Miguel, thank you! The flavor will be a bit more fruity than doing it with the flat burrs alone and a bit more chocolaty and more body than with the conical. Due to the very little fines that the Niche produce it’ll flow a little bit faster (1 or 2 seconds). So taste will be just in between the two grinds.

[@ElBoyoElectronico]

The Eureka Mignon Specialita also retains its settings. I bought the Red Clix add on for my C40 grinder and switched to using this hand grinder for my all my specialty roasts. This makes extra sense since it brings out all the fruity notes, while my Specialita is used for my go-to dark roast, which brings out the chocolaty notes. Also this combo saves a lot of beans when switching between my standard coffee and my specialty coffees.

[@iBarista]

That's a very good solution! So how are you liking the espresso coming out the comandante? And how clean does it taste?

[@ElBoyoElectronico]

@@iBarista It tastes very good. So far I used it without the Red Clix add on, which made it harder to nail the grind size. But I got excelent results from using the C40 with my trusted Cafelat Robot. I should probably do some A-B testing to see if I can taste a difference in the different burrs.

[@iBarista]

@@ElBoyoElectronico Good to know! Testing a very familiar coffee gives a whole new perspective especially if you do a quick side by side. It's a lot of fun :)

[@fxhood2114]

Thx. Nice vid. Just got my black nice. Works nicely. What I would love to see is a barista taste comparison between these two grinders. Got also the specialita, which is great, too. Time will tell which one I will prefer in future daily usage... cheers, fx

[@iBarista]

Thank you! Unfortunately i don’t have the Ceado anymore so I can’t do any comparisons. I have a feeling you’ll be very happy with the Niche but do let me know how it turns out!

[@MrJusmobile]

FLAT ALL THE WAY< THEY ARE IN THE BEST GRINDERS IN THE WORLD!!

[@MrArdytube]

I have no dog in this fight But ceado now has a grinder that is designed for single dose grinder and has less retention But thx for calling attention to the niche ... I was not familiar with it

[@iBarista]

You are right they have several models. The reason I went with the Niche is because of all the positive feedback I got about it. Hopefully I can test out one or more of the Ceado models for comparison.

[@MrArdytube]

iBarista As I reflect on this equipment, I wonder why no coffee shop has started offering a much wider selection of beans to extract.... like a wine tasting bar

[@iBarista]

Ardy Hagen I agree, there are only a handful of shops that serve different kinds of beans. Should be more in my opinion. But there’s hope, since people are craving more and more better quality coffee the demand will rise :)

[@YWeeJun]

Great comparison video man. Lots heart

[@iBarista]

Thank you brother!

[@MrHowieT]

May I clarify the retention of the e37s? Did the e37 had any grinds inside from factory testing before you tested it? I’m confused because you mentioned there were 4-5g inside the grinder when you took it apart, but when you measured retention, it was much lower than that

[@iBarista]

MrHowieT Hi, I’ll try to clarify what i meant. I did a retention test after I’ve cleaned the grinder and the de-clumper while single dosing, and if you look closely in the vid you see the ground coffee spray out of the chute. But, if you would use the grinder like intended (by filling the hopper) the grinder would constantly have beans and grounds in it. Also the de-clumper / chute will start to hold a good amount of coffee. So what i did one day was empty the hopper and removed all the coffee. Just like the cleaning I did beforehand in the vid and weighed out all the coffee minus the whole beans that where in the chamber and in the chute. This is one of the reasons why you’d purge grinders if you haven’t used it for a longer period. I hope this answers your question. Thank you!

[@mohamedelyazaji3278]

Wow, good job. This vidéo is realy helpful, thank you.

[@iBarista]

Glad you benefited :)

[@MrMilanina]

What is the drawer that sits under Ceado, please?

[@iBarista]

It’s a coffee knock box.

[@MrMilanina]

@@iBarista Yeah, I figured that out. 😀 I meant what brand. Thanks.

[@amer0701]

@@MrMilanina 😂 it’s a generic brand and was gifted to me. You can find similar products and better with ease on aliexpress

[@mbingz6984]

Amazing vid!! But there's always one thing bothering me about the correlation between grind speed and flavour/aroma. I noticed in the vid u mentioned coffee ground from Niche has more flavour, less aroma due to 330 RPM. Can u perhaps help explain the phenomenon? Or do u think this is more of a subjective matter where results differ from person to person?

[@iBarista]

Thank you for the kind words Willem! Well let’s consider that all factors are the same (grind size and extraction etc). If you’re grinding on a higher rpm compared to a lower rpm, in general more heat is generated. With more heat, the aroma of the coffee comes out during the grinding process. If it’s freed into the air it means it doesn’t end up in the espresso as flavor (and aroma in the cup). So if we exaggerate it a bit, grind your coffee and leave it sitting for a day, you’ll and up with a lot less flavor in the cup when extracting (besides the staleness). Simply due to the fact that aroma has escaped the ground coffee. Heat always speeds up the process. I hope this helps :)

[@fengjingbao]

Interesting observation at 5'30". I never realized there is a taste difference using flat or conical burrs. This is why perhaps my coffee always tends to be on the bright side.

[@iBarista]

Makes a big difference indeed and it’s a lot of fun to try different coffees with different kinds of burrs :)

[@ystebadvonschlegel3295]

Really nice video and review. Like the interesting style.

[@iBarista]

Thank you!

[@juggernaut316]

shame that the Niche is made in China

[@marcmadler454]

Greetings from germany

[@iBarista]

Hi neighbour! 😊

[@marcmadler454]

iBarista Could you do a test on distribution methods? Motta/OCD Style, stiring with a paperclip, stockfleth, vertical distribution...

[@iBarista]

@@marcmadler454 It's on the list! 👍🏼😊

[@marcmadler454]

iBarista 👍

[@execatty]

Can you please tell me what vacuum you're using to clean tx!

[@iBarista]

It’s a Dyson :)

[@FlairEspresso]

Good fun boys, and good ☕

[@iBarista]

Flair Espresso Thank you! Me and my video clone loved filming this 😊

[@trinianddiana]

Great video! Really enjoyed the comparison.

[@iBarista]

Thank you! Appreciate it :)

[@AK-qq4tg]

Great comparison - thanks for that! And thanks for not keeping it too long. My questions can be an off topic but just in case: have you ever tried Eureka grinders? Trying to make a choice between Ceado 37s and Atom 75e. Would be interested in your opinion. Cheers,

[@iBarista]

Glad you enjoyed it! U fortunately I personally never tried a Eureka grinder first hand, but based on the feedback I’ve got from several people it’s a really good grinder. The fact alone that you can get a below for the hopper to blow out all the grinds out of it is a big plus. Then considering the difference in price as well I would be more temp to try the Atom 75. Because I don’t think that flavor wise there’d be a big difference to justify one over the other. What do you think? Are you leaning towards one over the other?

[@emreisiklar]

One for espresso and one for others is the best way:))

[@iBarista]

That’s one way to do it! :)

[@candacehorgan1057]

Great review. I tend to pick a bag and then go through it, then switch to a different one after that. I have about three in my rotation, all lighter roast, but use for espresso only. I haven't done drip in who knows how long. I think the Ceado might be a better choice, especially since I love the chocolate notes. Thoughts?

[@iBarista]

The Ceado’s burr type would suit your flavor preference more I think yes. Then it’s up to you if you want it with a hopper or you want to single dose it. Personally (especially) for home use I’d prefer the SD. This minimizes wastage and preserves coffee freshness. But of course this all comes at a premium, but you’d have the best of both worlds.

[@nicouh]

Thanks for the comparison! Do you have any experience with channelling regarding the different bur types and the Niche? At fine sizes, like fruity light or medium speciality roasts that require a super fine grind, I basically always run into sourness and channelling with my Eureka Magnifico (55mm flat burs), unable to get a proper extraction. I switch coffee a lot and often drink speciality coffees (I got a 24*50g single origin espresso calendar last week, all light to medium roasts), but I started to wonder if it is the grinder, the flat burs, or generally me being bad at extraction. I am very interested in the Niche, though.

[@iBarista]

Great question! Preventing channeling on lighter denser coffees is a big challenge, especially compared to darker roasted coffee. Those tend to be more forgiving. Being that you have a rather good quality burr grinder, focus on the coffee distribution part (check out my vid on comparing distribution techniques for more). Also you could check my vid on dialing in Ethiopian coffee. Since lighter roasted coffees tend to work better with hotter brew temps and larger ratios (1:2.5 up to even 1:3) it should reduce the sourness. If you have an espresso that had a channeling problem you will taste a more watery, acidic and also a bitter cup all at the same time. The Niche would be an upgrade, but I don’t think this is a grinder problem that you’re having. Hope it helps you out!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Grinding too fine can force channeling. See if going mlre coarse helps. If you have control over the temps maybe try brewing a little hotter too.

[@JasonAlexzander1q47]

Start with basics. Grind size to the feel of sugar. Slightly adjust more course or fine from there. Use hotter water. 207-210F 18grams in. 40-47grams out or up to 52grams out on extraction. Done between 24-28 seconds. You could also try an 8second low pressure pre-infusion also as part of the total of the 24-28 seconds of extraction.

[@nikosraptis1985]

Very good video :-) Thank you very much for sharing!

[@iBarista]

nikos raptis you are very welcome! 😊

[@maveric2881]

Very insightful! Thanks for putting the time and effort. It really helps to know the difference

[@iBarista]

Eric Tang Thank you! Glad that it helps you out and you’re very welcome 😊

[@dsmpampis]

Great Video! Generally your videos are great. I think the niche is gonna be my next grinder, if I can find one because I don’t want to wait. How do you find the Eureka Specialita?

[@iBarista]

Thank you for the great feedback! I've been hearing good things about the Eureka's in general especially the 65mm range (Speciality 65). Good quality grinds, low retention (around 3 grams with a full hopper) intuitive, no setting loss after cleaning and on certain models (don't know if it applies to the Specialita) they even have an optional 0 retention bellow for the hopper! But never have I actually tried one yet, but hopefully soon I will.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Get one yet? Specialita with 55mm flat burs has about 1.3g retention but with a cheap 3d printed or a short pvc pipe and a bellow/ blower single dose mod it should be close to 0 retention. It's a great grinder.

[@scottdavis2036]

Just curious why you didn’t use the tamper trick to single dose the the E37S. Plus now it comes with the worm gear adjustment.

[@iBarista]

Didn’t really like the workflow compared to simply shutting the valve of the hopper and unfortunately the worm gear wasn’t compatible with my ceado’s serial number.

[@orrinbelcher6593]

Super cool video fun and informative thank you, cool music

[@iBarista]

Thanks Orrin! Really appreciate it and glad you liked it!👍🏼

[@mazinuddinnt]

I wish i get to watch this video before i even purchased the niche🤣.. but I’m really happy with the niche now.. no purging wastage, fast dialing in.. somehow i really love full bodied chocolaty note but e37s is kind of out of my budget.. great video!!

[@iBarista]

Glad you watched it now at least 😂. You could try to change the ratio's a bit if you find the coffee lacking in body. Or keep the same ratio with a bit of a longer extraction time. That'll bring out a bit more body and chocolate notes. The dialing in series might help you with that. Glad you liked the vid!

[@mazinuddinnt]

iBarista i played with it everyday since I’ve got the flow control on my classika pid but I’m wondering if its just my beans that are bright and fruity type😂

[@iBarista]

Muhammad Azinuddin that might be a reasonable possibility 😊

[@dannymartin6808]

One thing i will say from personal use with the e37S is that there is absolutely no purging needed or waste on the newer models. This review is with an older iteration that had more grinds retainage (mostly in the declumping/static shoot) this was fixed on the newest model and now grind retention is .1-.2 grams whenever I weigh it out. That's such a small amount I don't even bother purging it anymore as I can't tell a difference. Single dosing still goes to the Niche for obvious reason, but if your like me and use the same bag of coffee all the way through and load 12oz at a time, the e37s is excellent. I have no troubler dialing it in when swapping to a new type of coffee, but I don't keep 3-4 different options on hand, I load 12 oz and when that's done load a different 12 oz. 1-2 shots at most to re-dial for a new coffee. I definitely prefer the ceado to the niche I have tried, but if I was in the market for a new grinder now, the niche would definitely be top of my list because cost to performance ratio is well ahead of the ceado.

[@iBarista]

Danny Martin good to hear that they’ve addressed that issue! Hopefully I can test the newer models one day. How do you experience the dialing in process?

[@culturallyrich]

Just the pic of the grinds under the microscope was worth the time spent on this video. Very well thought out and presented to the point unlike some ramblers on KZbin hehe. Am considering a flat burr grinder just to see what the difference is. This helped a ton! Much thanks!

[@iBarista]

Thank you for the great feedback!

[@dm2781632]

One can’t read and watch at the same time. Talk the differences

[@lowaaron5865]

Good insights love it a lot thanks

[@iBarista]

Happy you liked it! 😊

[@lukemccallum2359]

Love the videos! Do you have any thoughts on the rocket appartamento? Also what other options are there similar to the niche in terms of the single dosing + low retention? Thanks in advance

[@iBarista]

Luke McCallum thank you Luke! I think the appartamento is a great deal for the money. It uses the tried and true e61 group head, quality built and it looks great too. Only downside (for me) is that it doesn’t have a PID to give you complete temp control which could result in inconsistent shots. As grinders go Ceado has several SD options at different price ranges and Eureka has for certain models an option to add a bellow to blow out every bit of coffee in the chamber and lets not forget about the Mahlkonig ek43 :)

[@lukemccallum2359]

@@iBarista Thanks for the reply! With the Rocket what would you have to do before pulling a shot, as in do you need to do a cooling flush or can you use it straight away after leaving it to warm up for a bit?

[@iBarista]

Luke McCallum Yes, likely a cooling flush. But depending on the actual temp of the head at the moment you need to time the duration. You could over or under flush. On the other hand there are thermostats available which are easily installed on the group-head. They used to be very expensive, but have dropped in price. You are welcome!

[@ChristopherMichaelR]

Great video! Super informative!

[@iBarista]

Thank you I'm happy you liked it!

[@leilasalti2711]

love to see your video's,

[@iBarista]

I'm happy you liked it!

[@dalerbsr.5061]

Niche is hard to find, only one place to go i think? Ceado has many vendors in many countries.

[@iBarista]

D Bennish yes indeed it goes via their indigogo page in batches. Ceado has distributors and resellers.

[@GlenEdwards]

Here in Australia we had no reseller of Ceado until very recently. They are expensive! E37S $2949, E37SD $3599! The same seller sells Niche for $1330. If I order through Indiegogo it’ll cost me $990. But Indiegogo states that they don’t guarantee I’ll get anything for my money, which is the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard of, why would someone retail their finished production units like that? So I went and spent the $1330 to have safety.

[@iBarista]

@@GlenEdwards I’ve heard about the absurdly high import tax Australia has. But I think the person you bought it from is taking advantage of a business opportunity and selling with great profit. Because ceado’s here in europe (e37s) go for 1700/1800 euro and the niche is 580 (depending on the exchange rate). But yes, they don’t have official resellers. Sounds like a great business opportunity to me 🤔

[@GlenEdwards]

@@iBarista yeah the businesses taking advantage of us is more the situation than the import taxes, unless the businesses have to pay 10x more than me. 🤔

[@iBarista]

@@GlenEdwards I’m afraid you’re absolutely right.

[@philgoogle1535]

Good review and comparison. I bought my Niche 2 years ago as I, like you, calculated it would pay for itself in less than 12 months. Mail order coffee is expensive!

[@iBarista]

Not just mail order coffee, good coffee in general is very expensive. How are you liking the Niche so far?

[@trevorwesterdahl6245]

Not a fair comparison. Ceado also makes the Ceado E5SD Single-Dose Coffee Grinder( see quick vid of it in action here... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYaQmquYpKidf6s pay attention to measurement). It has pretty much zero retention. Less than the Niche which is fantastic. However, if you do compare it, the price is about $1,350 US for E5SD vs $700 us for Niche. Problem with Niche is you can't get one. They are sold out and don't anticipate availability until February. Can't even pre-order. Also, if you do need a replacement part, they aren't really a company. They are in a crowdfunding phase. I saw no resource to order parts. I would buy a Niche today, if I could. Would also like to see a real comparison that considers durability features with E5SD and samples ranging from course grinds to fine. FYI: Good vid, just not fair comparison.

[@trevorwesterdahl6245]

Better video on features... kzbin.info/www/bejne/jF6pn6hth5trisU

[@iBarista]

Unfortunately, this is what I’ve got. WLL is a retailer and a Ceado reseller and have more possibilities for comparisons. The format of the vid was a general comparison between SD’s / hoppers, and flat / conical burrs and why you’d pick one over the other. Not between these specific models Per se. One did not win over the other, it’s depends on what you’re looking for in a grinder. Hopefully one day I’ll have the means (like some other youtubers) to give more specific (unbiased) comparisons due to funds and sponsors. But I absolutely understand your feedback

[@BensCoffeeRants]

You can get a niche. Just not right away usually :)

[@cindydpc9796]

This is so timely!! I’ve been trying to decide on which grinder to go forward with... although the “chocolaty” espresso taste is what I prefer in every other way the niche seems a better fit for me..thanks so much!!!

[@cindydpc9796]

I wonder if there is a way to bring out those chocolaty flavors in other ways ... flow control etc

[@iBarista]

Cindy D P C Thank you Cindy! The difference isn’t that huge that’ll change the flavor profile completely. Of course it will depend on the grinder the Niche is compared to. As for bringing out more chocolaty flavors, when the coffee is a bit to fruity for your liking; slow down the flow rate, by simply grinding a bit finer. Choosing a coffee with a pronounced chocolate note is the best choice. In the vid I was using an Ethiopian which inherently has a bright citrusy flavor profile (as a reference). But if I for example use a different bean like a South American with chocolate flavors; the Niche brings them out also! Hope this helps, and you are very welcome!

[@cindydpc9796]

iBarista, thank for your insights. I love Ethiopian for pour over.. it’s another reason I’m seriously looking at the niche. I was considering a Ceado grinder although not the model you have

[@iBarista]

Cindy D P C You’re welcome. I can highly recommend the Niche. Especially if you like to switch between brew methods!

[@gusmank]

How about the consistency?

[@iBarista]

gusmank (niche) 1. If you mean grind consistency; it’s excellent (as you see in the image of the microscope) extremely low on fines. 2. And if you ment consistency as in between shots; aside from user error which may effect it. The niche produces shots on point each time. After an adjustment, it also keeps producing the same weight and shot times. The Ceado produces more fines (which contributes to more body in the cup) but also very consistent. Hope it answered your question.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@iBarista they typically claim conical burrs produce more fines. I did find flat burrs tend to produce more body or bitterness which I like. The niche and my conical hand grinder sometimes are too smooth / lacking bitterness which might be good for straight espresso but not great for cappuccino where it ends up tasting weaker. Although I have had some good shots that had an nice bitterness level out of conicals too. My testing is probably not consistent enough. I did find with conicals sometimes you do get noticibly brighter or more acidic notes which can be better for some coffees and worse for others.

[@don1738]

MAX > ceado

[@tiaguito6]

A video where I have to read everything is a blog post. Would have been nice with comments (not only music)

[@iBarista]

It’s unfortunate the video wasn’t to your liking. Since English isn’t my native language and I have a lot of time restrictions due to my daytime job/activities, I opted for this format. Since I wasn’t feeling it to have several reshoots (on top) due to errors in my wordings or pronunciations. Hope you understand 👍🏼

[@tiaguito6]

@@iBarista it's absolutely understandable. I still find the content very useful!!👌

[@iBarista]

@@tiaguito6 I appreciate the feedback :)

[@gregoryrobak456]

Very nice comparison! I'm thinking about the Niche as my first grinder for espresso and for filter/drip brews. What are your thoughts on the Niche for drip coffee? Thanks

[@iBarista]

Thanks! As an espresso grinder it’s great. But for filter it’s ok. In my opinion, it produces a bit too much fines for filter to get a clean tasting cup. I personally solve this by sifting the coffee a bit. Results are a much better then.

[@fr4nky4fingers]

So if Niche would pay for itself after 18 months because of retention compared to the Ceado then that would mean that the Ceado would retain 30 €/$ worth of coffee every month. More than 1kg. How do they compare from a noise Level perspective? The Ceado should be a good bit less noisy.

[@iBarista]

Frank Hi Frank, not quite what I meant (sorry if I wasn’t clear in the vid). The Ceado is meant to be used while the hopper is filled either partially or full. So your first grind of the day or after a while of not using it (if you don’t want a stale tasting coffee) is thrown away. Adding to it that after each change in grind setting you purge the grinder also. So not so much retention, but more the purging part that is wasteful. Because the Niche (or any other single doser) doesn’t require you to purge etc. you don’t waste any coffee (if the settings are to your liking). Noise level is a bit lower on the niche actually. Probably due to the fact that the burrs spin in a very low rpm. The Ceado has a bit of a higher pitch in sound. But don’t get me wrong, the Ceado isn’t that loud especially compared to a lot of other grinders. On a side note I only buy 250/350 gr bags because I like to switch around a lot. And these ore compared to 1 kg bags 20 to 30% more expensive. Hope this answers your question :)