Container Farming | The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

[@greg-vj6qy]

Regarding the age and condition of the container, there are a few things that could be added to the video to address that. There are multiple grades of containers and they are inspected every 30 months (max) after the first 5 years. Never buy a container without a CSC plate. That's like a vehicle VIN tag. Containers with the CSC plate removed are out of service, unsafe for shipping cargo. Container sales is a tough racket, like used cars, and some dealers are shady. Go and see the actual container you are buying, ask to see the CSC plate, and look at the date of manufacture. If you can afford it, buy what's called a "new" container. That's one that was built, then carried a single load to America. They can run twice the cost, or only 150% depending on the market. They will typically have a poly coating on the floor. That's a good thing. Also, there are open top containers, that you could add a roof of your own, with glass, and there are high top containers, 9'6" interior height. As a buyer, look into the condition ratings and know the difference, and if a dealer can't tell you what it is or when it was last inspected, DON"T BUY IT. This is a good video that should get you started and curious to educating yourself about doing this, it wasn't meant to be an end all, but is a great primer. Interested? Read. read read, and crunch the numbers.

[@drpk6514]

A part from the condition, containers are horrible with insulation. They get red hot under the sun and freeze in winter. And if you want to add the insulation, it is very expensive.

[@MrWannabeartist]

I was sold on the idea of a shipping container for vertical farming due to the figures quoted, but now I know that what really is amazing is the vertical farming using the space the shipping container has, so build a simple structure close to living property that takes the natural heat and light in the summer, and have it insulated in the winter with possible easier use of lighting and heating being attached to an original property. A lot cheaper and possibly more efficient.

[@ashleyowens8839]

Well said build a greenhouse when outside light is low supplement the light with led

[@ItsAli4]

I just love this guys honesty! I watched the video more than once to get a better picture and understanding of growing food in a container. However its not for everyone. I'd prefer to work with someone already doing this as an intern so that I could learn from the experts before setting up my own operation, Great video!

[@Larkinchance]

We know about the varying condition of shipping containers.. We know about climate considerations but he did say anything about the growing systems, the nutrients and the hydro components needed... It's a pitch without the details...

[@br4690]

It's fun to have this video recommended just when the EVERGREEN freight ship is obstructing Suez canal. This ship is in a picture of your video! Thank you so much for all this info. I really mean it. Your clean an "to the point" vision of things is helping me a lot for the choies I have to make just right now. I am gonna watch this video another time! Thanks again!

[@jcjensenllc]

Ugly: some containers have been used to ship toxic chemicals that might have leaked and been absorbed into wood floor. Clean and seal the floor.

[@moosesnWoop]

buying my container today. I did a prototype (almost equivelent to the same cost as buying a container) as the cost was way to high during the Covid pandemic. Finally able to take my prototypes to the next level, inside a container. My biggest concern is going to be environmental controls. I live in Africa, so sun is HOT and shining almost everyday, so I don't want to cook the plants.. nonetheless, I am super excited to get moving with this project

[@ZipGrowInc]

That's exciting and a big project. Good luck, let us know how it goes!

[@buildingbrosltd4361]

Nice project! I suggest you look for heat reflective paint and solar cooling system. let me know or post a link here so we can see your final design.

[@moosesnWoop]

@@buildingbrosltd4361 Thanks - it's taking much longer than anticipated given the container prices and shortages.

[@glennbehrman8476]

Thanks for your honest assessment of container farming. I like your capex/output concept but it doesn't always apply to every crop specific model. Take low weight/high value products, for example. I also agree with your comments about environmental control, it's all about balance to achieve a maximum result. I also think that there is no "one size fits all" solution in container farming. Since I own the company that builds and sells Growtainers, we have a mandate to only sell our containers to people that we feel have a chance of success. Before we share any information, we try to get a feel for the buyer. What do they want to grow ? Who do they plan to sell it to ? What is their growing experience ? My businesses are profitable and we're not under pressure from a VC funder to generate sales. Piece of mind and integrity are very important at CEA Advisors. In my opinion, a 40' container is too big for a farmers market and too small for a supermarket. You have to be able to sell what you grow. Thanks Nate, for a good and honest report. I like what you're doing with your informative videos and I think that your Zip Grow towers make perfect sense in the right applications.

[@ZipGrowInc]

Thanks for being part of the conversation, Glenn! Great points indeed.

[@bilalseyed3679]

Do you have a website I can visit?

[@peterlane6944]

This vid only touched the surface on the issues. I would never recommend anyone buying a single container farm, BUT I would recommend using containers for farming if you know what you are doing.

[@conrankule7462]

Over the last decade there has been a huge grow in modular farming .This is clearly the future of urban farming and shows there is a need in the market for improved design around purposed design grow units. The take away is have the right business model before you purchase a container It Ib nor heads .

[@tangobayus]

They seem to have a pretty big up front cost. One can do microgreens with much less investment. I'm working on reducing the tech rather than increasing it.

[@KorvidRavenscraft]

How so?

[@Larkinchance]

There's the accountant who is telling why it makes sense and a profit.. Maybe you are directed to a company store where you may spend more or less of 100k.. You invest more and more trying to save your initial investment. Maybe to get credit from the supplier and you have to sign a proprietorial contract requiring you to buy from only them...The details are in the fine print.. Your investment could end up trash with a continuing obligation.. Buy beware, especially these days.. I like the idea of growing greens, saving the environment and looking to the future.. The best way is to find a large producer and apply for a lowly job just to start at the bottom.. If you work 6 mo. to a year, you will discover the most important thing..”Do I have an affinity for growing produce to earn a living. Does it make sense.” During your time working for a prospering concern, know who the real distributors of supplies and products are and quietly collect addresses.. This is an valuable apprenticeship in a business and you will know when to move on.. now you can go off and invest in being a farmer and not an accountant.. Accountants are people you hire when you prosper.

[@tangobayus]

@@KorvidRavenscraft I use Feit shop lights 4000K that cost about $30. Wire or plastic shelves are $50 or so. I grow on burlap. Watch my videos. I use cheap appliance timers to turn things on and off. I feed the microgreens with weak hydroponic solutions. I don't do that much now- mostly hydroponics and container plants. I'm using nextdoor.com to let people know I have plants available.

[@tangobayus]

@@Larkinchance I've concluded that my best option is to be a nursery. I'm using nextdoor.com to let people know I have plants available.

[@Larkinchance]

Very good,.. you're showing the way

[@Johngaltsghost]

Great video. Speaks to just because you can do something doesn't mean you should or that it is a viable business model. Bright Agrotech, Chris, Nate and the Upstart University team consistently speak to the economic realities in this business decrypting it for newbies... Few out there can explain it marrying the business-side with botanical science. Comment about Freight Farms is interesting...seems like a niche solution that is expensive and seems difficult to scale into a sustainable business which BA emphasizes to newbies all the time. BA team, keep up the good work.

[@ZipGrowInc]

Glad we can help.

[@christopherneelyakagoattmo6078]

I like also the "Talk to Failure" portion. And the rigorous way of "Pounds, Pounds, Pounds..." output maximization and going cheap is often the costliest route. Crying once over the quality expenditure sucks; however, it beats crying once a week until you have to replace it anyway: with something of quality. Then you have to cease some operation or another during that transition; perhaps ruining a customer relationship in the process.

[@terrygubatan5050]

Excellent review Dr Storey. As always you are clear and the pound/output was great advice. I look forward to your next review

[@ZipGrowInc]

Glad you enjoyed it. More to come on container farms in the coming months.

[@DamianHinkson]

what is your minimum viable $/LB number......and while your at it take a stab at gallon per watt for aquaponics. mines 60gall per watt.

[@emlillthings7914]

A channel revolving around vertical/Indoor farming, and actually addresses the factors that matter. Splendid, thanks for uploading, and for sharing your experience(s). Instant sub

[@angelmadera2263]

With the set up as u like how many containers to equal 1 acre traditional farm land just to get a point across.

[@Larkinchance]

There's the accountant who is telling why it makes sense and a profit.. Maybe you are directed to a company store where you may spend more or less of 100k.. You invest more and more trying to save your initial investment. Maybe to get credit from the supplier and you have to sign a proprietorial contract requiring you to buy from only them...The details are in the fine print.. Your investment could end up trash with a continuing obligation.. Buy beware, especially these days.. I like the idea of growing greens, saving the environment and looking to the future.. The best way is to find a large producer and apply for a lowly job just to start at the bottom.. If you work 6 mo. to a year, you will discover the most important thing..”Do I have an affinity for growing produce to earn a living. Does it make sense.” During your time working for a prospering concern, know who the real distributors of supplies and products are and quietly collect addresses.. This is an valuable apprenticeship in a business and you will know when to move on.. now you can go off and invest in being a farmer and not an accountant.. Accountants are people you hire when you prosper.

[@davidhefner5668]

Savings on property taxes. No building = less taxables. Of course the government will sooner or later find a way around that.

[@moosesnWoop]

loving the economics on this - this is a great video

[@ZipGrowInc]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for your feedback!

[@ghostleader83]

Omg I was just having this discussion, thanks for the vid bro

[@mxss115]

Interesting. I'm thinking of doing a container farm for my own use, not as a business. I think that takes out quite a bit of the cons, especially since I'm looking into using containers that have only been used once.

[@JonathanTabaco]

initial capital is one of the biggest hurdles for most people, so a temporary/transitional cheaper startup can allow for building or growing a business to gain credit, market share and have a living classroom. I agree a tailored or well engineered space in always preferable. as for those modular systems they allow for economies of scale for production and planning almost like a cookie cutter franchise. Take the farm wall as a example , your all in one product in terms of planning and execution is easy and effective and can be placed almost anywhere, so to can these shipping containers especially if there was a mapped out readily available plan/kit.

[@TheAwsomesawce]

If you can afford a shipping container farm with your initial investment, and are starting at that scale, then you may as well shell out a bit more for the purpose-built modular system and have peace of mind in terms of output, ROI and structural integrity. Saving money on CapEx means nothing if you're going to jeopardize your OpEx and potentially your entire investment on an ill-suited and possibly defunct shipping container that can't control the environment properly within the farm. Planning to scale up based on the success of a second-hand shipping container farm is a big gamble, you may as well start with a small ZipFarm or set of FarmWalls for proof of concept and then scale up to a purpose built container farm or large scale ZipFarm.

[@ronmoore9329]

Great information. I appreciate your more scientific/business approach to this industry.

[@ZipGrowInc]

Our pleasure!

[@Itsjustbelle]

Information on light to biomass is just straight wrong... it’s much more complicated than that

[@ninac4545]

Why wasn't Freight Farms covered? They grow inside recycled shipping containers and insulate them to prevent the environmental factor..

[@richlaue]

You need to watch the video again, especially the first photo. This is about growing in shipping containers

[@sanseveria826]

Do you have any thoughts/information on aquaponics in a container?

[@kkchow8803]

Thanks for the truthful and decent comment.

[@ZipGrowInc]

Container farms have come a long way since we made this video. We still don't recommend re-purposing old shipping containers but purpose built containers can be a great solution within a small footprint. Here is a recent blog about consideration for container farms and an introduction to our purpose built modular farm.zipgrow.com/the-zippod-why-a-purpose-built-container-farm-may-be-a-good-fit-for-you/

[@mohamedsheikh2502]

Thanks a lot for the pro and con about the container farming .Regards

[@johndwolfkingveearcangel3131]

Also, the fruits you see in stores if you see a fruit with a number that starts with a 3 or 4 on it then its chemical compound grown. If it starts with a 9 then its organic.

[@ancienttechnology7337]

News flash for you, the growers get a small portion of their farm certified and then transfer the non organic products from the other part of their farm to the organic side to be processed as organic.

[@noahgrady8976]

Very well done.. Thank you very much for the valuable, clear information, as well as your time.

[@ZipGrowInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Iquey]

I think container farms are cool but I admit that the current design of them rn really sucks in terms of farming at sea in empty containers heading back to major export countries from the US. Maybe it would be better to have multiple warehouse farms close to ports, and then fill the containers with the plants in containers that keep them somewhat alive longer, like containers with a bit of soil, inside a special container within the yucky shipping containers what are often full of mold and algae and rust and all sorts of messed up unhealthy stuff. Perhaps in the future there will be newer materials for shipping containers like transparent metals or strong polymers that allow for light to come into specially made shipping containers that do grow plants while traveling on sea voyages.

[@PerryCameron]

Great video, I like incorporation of the Capex/output metric to always compare apples to apples

[@ZipGrowInc]

Glad it was useful, Perry!

[@jensbjorkqvist6634]

Jupp, same here!

[@ZipGrowInc]

Great! Thanks for tuning in.

[@liamwayne6703]

"The metric where both numbers is higher than the other one is better!" ~ How to speak a lot, without saying anything.

[@ZipGrowInc]

thanks for your comments

[@epicnikitag]

Shipping containers. Old shipping containers. Lead. Contamination of food. Not 100% sure, but I am currently reading Toxic Truth by Linda Denworth and lead contamination and poisoning were rampant in the 50-70's until better laws came about. Pretty sure if you test the paint on those older shipping containers, the dust particles and 'chips' may contain dangerous concentrations of lead. Any thoughts? International containers may differ in quality too, with potentially lower standards for container construction...

[@ZipGrowInc]

Hi Nikita, great points. I'm sure today's container farm creators are aware and using tactics to mitigate any lead/toxicity risk. You'd have to talk to them directly for more specific info though. Sorry we're not much help here!

[@richlaue]

Lead in paint was banned over 50 years ago, most of those containers have rise away

[@WPRRanch]

where can I buy a used container?? any good websites??

[@al_vin007]

Very Good Video, Sir. Thank you. Do you have a design for a custom-built modular farm that I can purchase?

[@srmcarthur]

Great video! I'm hoping you can share what the most effective $Capex/ Output (lb) you've seen!

[@kurt3687]

So entertaining..I love how you get the whiteboard marker out to make it look official and complicated but then explain a simple investment to yeild ratio concept my 13 year old gets. The best was your assumption of 2000- 4000 pounds of product per year from a container.. are you growing lead?.. maybe cryptonite? Hilarious 🤣

[@ZipGrowInc]

thanks for your comments- more whiteboards to come! some people find it helpful broken down this way, but either way we are glad you found it entertaining! Happy growing🙂

[@RobertoArreola]

pounds is not only a measure in an open farm. the soil management is. be considered

[@alcoxton6646]

This guy should call his show "da FLINSTONE FARMING" lol!!!

[@lindamartin6628]

Thank u so much for the information!

[@ZipGrowInc]

Our pleasure!

[@mohsenbaydoun7420]

So what dr nate think about growing microgreens in containers?

[@rgilroy1909]

Bottom line question: can two people operate a single (or double) "freight farms" container profitably, year round, in New England ? If so, how? What modifications are needed to " weather proof" the "prefab'd container" for year round performance? P.S. huge fan of zip towers

[@richlaue]

The prefab container is already water resistant, add insulation and build your hydroponic unit

[@PropGru]

Good content. Thanks.

[@ZipGrowInc]

You are very welcome! Glad it helps.

[@kurtgellert9166]

Great video. What do you see as being a maximum allowable Capex cost/lb of output? What's your hurdle as %?

[@khyatidesai9463]

Great video...thank you for sharing. This helps a lot!!

[@janiebugg1975]

Thank you for your information its what l want to hear, where can l obtain more information in Australia

[@ZipGrowInc]

What type of information would you like more info on Janie?

[@BobSemf]

Is your output pounds measuring what you actually sell, or the entire plant?

[@ZipGrowInc]

Hi Bob, it should be the saleable biomass. Great question!

[@kid.0llie]

good knowledge

[@chrs5236]

How can I calcualte my output (lbs/year) during the farm design phase?

[@ZipGrowInc]

If you know anything about your future sales/distribution, a great way to get these details is map everything out in Able -- able.ag/features/

[@Larkinchance]

There's the accountant who is telling why it makes sense and a profit.. Maybe you are directed to a company store where you may spend more or less of 100k.. You invest more and more trying to save your initial investment. Maybe to get credit from the supplier and you have to sign a proprietorial contract requiring you to buy from only them...The details are in the fine print.. Your investment could end up trash with a continuing obligation.. Buy beware, especially these days.. I like the idea of growing greens, saving the environment and looking to the future.. The best way is to find a large producer and apply for a lowly job just to start at the bottom.. If you work 6 mo. to a year, you will discover the most important thing..”Do I have an affinity for growing produce to earn a living. Does it make sense.” During your time working for a prospering concern, know who the real distributors of supplies and products are and quietly collect addresses.. This is an valuable apprenticeship in a business and you will know when to move on.. now you can go off and invest in being a farmer and not an accountant.. Accountants are people you hire when you prosper.

[@NoahNobody]

I wonder how much a brand new container is?

[@craigglewis]

I can get New 40' container for $6-8K used can be found for $1500-5K depending on one's area

[@hiphopklaus3052]

is it ok to convert the pounds per output to kilogram per output (divide it through two) ?

[@ezacher4634]

Nice containers are easy to get. So few are returned to China they get sold here after one trip. They are designed to be legal width for U.S. roads.

[@jaedth]

Don't they consume a lot of electricity?

[@deathangel4200]

What would you say about building a structure out of containers instead of just using them as growing pods?

[@ZipGrowInc]

What kind of structure?

[@peterlane6944]

Containers (big metal boxes), are great building blocks and can be used to build anything, and providing they are well insulated and have great air handling are excellent for automated CEA designs. People have built beautiful homes to hotels, even shopping malls, all you need is imagination and knowhow, but if you dont know the problems you wont know the solutions to use.

[@Strychn1n3]

Sorry, but used shipping containers have more value being recycled for the steel content than using it as a building block. Do you know how many steel studs, beam and building components you can make out of a single container?

[@andurilan]

No Sorry, No two containers are the same. If your buying a used container thats better recycled, you've made a bad purchase

[@richlaue]

There is at least one mall that did just that, store is a container or two. The also make house out of shopping containers

[@josebenitez3732]

Thank you so much for sharing some the "Nuts & Bolts" of the operations. Enthusiasm and energy is great, but it is $$$ that will keep you happy. Besides some of the environmental advantages like reduction in the consumption of energy(?) and water. Are there any other environmental concerns? ...and what of fire, insurance, etc.?

[@bfbvouabeorbvoaervure963]

Jose Benitez Nope, more energy used. But, then again, we can implement solar power and wind turbines to power them. You also save power, however, as you are reusing something that either would have gone to landfill, or would have used more energy to recycle than it did to make it originally.

[@alitahir4147]

Won't containers become baked ovens during the summer and refrigerators during the winters?

[@ZipGrowInc]

Hi Ali, with temperature and humidity control, container farm can provide an optimum controlled environments for the plants. If you are interested don't forget to check out on our latest container farm system here zipgrow.com/container-farming/

[@inclusive_cmt]

I don't find 6 feet containers under £1500. This ain't cheap for me. Where can I find cheaper containers in the uk?

[@kawayanldn9324]

Seems like it has more cons than pros.

[@aleksandraz7477]

Prices are never going down

[@edmondenterprisesgrouphold3782]

very good info as always thanks

[@membender]

I'm guessing that this kind of "workplace" gets some sort of ADA waiver. :-o

[@kadianbanton5522]

Sorry I’m seeing this in 2022 because container are so expensive now 🤦🏽‍♀️

[@ZipGrowInc]

The best option is a purpose built container as it's efficiencies produce great yields. Stay tuned for more on container farms soon by subscribing to our channel. Thanks for watching!

[@bfbvouabeorbvoaervure963]

OH OO OH OO OH OH OH OO OH OH THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY STORAGE FARMS ARE REALLY COOL REALLY COOL THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY

[@lostcowboy5]

Ok, I hate when people drop terms on you, and expect you to know what they are talking about. I am not a finance major, so when you say CAPEX and OPEX my brain just goes HUH and waits for you to explain these new terms. I got that CAPEX is something to do with Capital and OPEX is something to do with Expences. I looked this up after the video, www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/what-difference-between-capex-and-opex.asp You talked of CAPEX divided by pounds of output and that's good. But you did not talk about the Breakeven formula, or a Breakeven chart, which you really really should have done, that was very bad of you! A breakeven chart is easy to make, in this case it would tell you how many pounds of output at a price, that you would need to break even. You grow less you lose money, you grow more you make a profit.

[@emmanuelsebastiao3176]

thank you so much

[@gillianjacob8578]

Seems like he spent more time on the cons than the pros. Why is that?

[@aggabus]

Roof collapse?

[@WillWilsonII]

By the time you modify it, you might as well have stick framed it

[@matthewjeffries7108]

How about freight farms

[@landscapes4149]

Freightfarms recently stopped buying their towers from BA and are now making their own. Timing of this video is obviously no coincidence.

[@Glasstorchmaster]

It is always nice to only look at things from a "rich person's perspective". Lets all build giant greenhouses and buildings just so he does not feel claustrophobic, lol. A lot of grow sheds are a lot smaller than a shipping container. Lots of grow tents are smaller also and used by hundreds of thousands of people. I guess if one is only using an upright grow bed instead of being practicle and able to grow things on flat surfaces......it makes sense to have a 200' tall building to do it in, but for people that grow on flood and drain, flo and gro systems, etc........shipping containers work out just fine. Venting is NO bigger a deal in a shipping container than it is in a steel sided building, cut the hold and put the vent in the wall, floor, ceiling, guess that is difficult to figure out for him. NOT everyone is farming to make $millions .... some of us farm to improve our health, others health, and for FUN......omg what a concept.....FUN......but by all standards....STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM SHIPPING CONTAINERS, as they are "claustrophobic". ROFLMAO.......what an IDIOT!!!

[@AwkwardYet]

I don't think they would be good for commercial farming

[@bfbvouabeorbvoaervure963]

AwkwardYet A lot of people enjoy the “fun ness” of micro greens, a common thing grown in these farms.

[@rawbsworld6604]

WTFF?… LMFAO!!!! Hahaha I’m saving my money for a shipping container to garden in. LOL I don’t need no greenhouse 🤣. Thought y’all in Oklahoma ? Apparently the California influence is strong there…. Who knew? 😳 haha title says container gardening so I’m like ok I’ll check it out … in my world container gardening is growing in 5 gal buckets 👌😂 not a shipping container 😳 never heard of this being a thing 🤣😂

[@ZipGrowInc]

Hi Rawbs, Yes container gardening in shipping containers is actually experiencing huge growth as the vertical farming industry in general will witness revolutionary growth in the next decade due to food insecurities globally. Who new, just a few years ago that this would be a thing! However many container farms now are specifically optimized for the growth of food and we have seen demand for this especially in places such as deserts and rural north communities where they have very limited access to fresh food for communities. The beauty of containers that are optimized offers excellent ROi and 1 container can service 1 small community. There are containers that are inefficient, and so ones built specifically for farming purposes are best.

[@ZipGrowInc]

I should add that the demand is from locals with no farming background that want to offer solutions for their communities that have little access to fresh food.

[@rawbsworld6604]

@@ZipGrowInc 🤷‍♂️ totally not trying to disrespect y’all or cementers but I have to stick with my post .. but gotta take your word for it …. Still ridiculous to me but I might remember someday when I’m board and take time to look into it … but if it was titled truthfully …shipping container farming still might have intrigued enough for a look 🤷‍♂️ but as titled , expecting bucket etc farming and to be bitch slapped with wtf!! Shipping container!!!! Was to much for/ still is 🤦🤣😂 …. ✌️🤙

[@thomasflores7817]

Disgusting amount of ads.