Cornel West On Being A Revolutionary Christian (TMBS 136)

Dr. Cornel West on being a radical christian and spirituality.
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#LeftSpirituality

[@ALTR_no_EGO]

Dr. West is just about the only person that could get Michael out of a tracksuit and wearing a tie.

[@GregoryWonderwheel]

LOL! I noticed that too and wondered if it was for the guest.

[@docan5248]

Other person being Lula lol

[@kd6613]

MB asked CW on mortality and no one expected the tragedy came so soon. Rest in peace!

[@VeganTrove]

"This year I met this young American, a journalist, who turned out to be a friend, who I thought that we would meet again. How is it possible? My heart and prayers go to his family and friends. May his passion for social justice be remembered and inspire people around the world." Lula, Ex-presidente da República do Brasil (2003-2010) about Michael Brooks

[@nicka731]

RIP. Thankfully, though we can drop the “ex” on that presidente situation.

[@GlobeHackers]

West is a treasure, and he's right about why we like The Michael Brooks Show. "You need to have a relationship with the oppressed." C. Hedges

[@lex5258]

Rest in Power Michael

[@gengkiskhan2871]

I could seriously listen to Cornel West talk all day. So much wisdom.

[@jasonwakeman]

You and evidently 1% of Americans 😢 (myself inclusive). Not sure why so few. Dude is brilliant!

[@joshuapowell114]

I never watched this when he walked this earth, we will all miss his eloquent discourse and Internationalist worldview. Micheal's untimely passing inspires me to be a better man.

[@sojourner4726]

I am thankful for this interview and for Michael Brooks.

[@seanrahman7129]

As an atheist I have no love for organized religion, but if religion is being used for egalitarian goals I support it 100%

[@hansmuller4338]

... and the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism. The profane existence of error is compromised as soon as its heavenly oratio pro aris et focis [“speech for the altars and hearths,” i.e., for God and country] has been refuted. Man, who has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman, will no longer feel disposed to find the mere appearance of himself, the non-man [Unmensch], where he seeks and must seek his true reality. The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man - state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo. "

[@Derlaid]

A lot of 19th and early 20th centuries radicals argued for economic and social equality using the Bible -- things like the jubilee and the redistribution of property found in Hebrew law were essential parts of that critique of industrial capitalist society, so the tradition exists, but a lot of both fundamentalist AND liberal Christians have abandoned those critiques for class reasons. Huey Long, who was by no means a socialist, nonetheless argued for policies that would make Bernie Sanders look like the Kochs, using the Bible as his starting point for radical reform.

[@megavolt67]

The bible's utility in particular circumstances says nothing about truths or lies contained within. Just as abolitionists used the bible to argue that slaves should be free, slaveholders used it to argue that they shouldn't. The simple truth of it is that the bible has good and bad ethical suggestions alike. We can consider the good and discard the bad as with any other work of literature. And we don't need to invoke a supernatural entity and assert its endorsement of the good to make it good because there are better reasons for being good than to have to subscribe to the notion of some omnipotent deity who will reward you for being good or punish you for being bad.

[@Derlaid]

@@megavolt67 If you're arguing with a computer, sure you can do that. But since you're dealing with people who form their moral understanding of the world based on those ideas then it becomes a bit more important as to how you present your ideas from. I used Huey Long as an example because he was actually able to attain power.

[@andrew_owens7680]

If you have any doubt that religion can be used for good, ask yourself if sectarianism can be used for bad and remember that the word terrorisme comes from the French and was coined during a secular period known as The Terror. Secularism and religion are practiced by humans and are the most human of things. The world is big enough for both if we can tolerate and accept each other.

[@Derlaid]

3:09 Seems even more relevant now. I think Brooks in some way lived up to what West was saying.

[@SensoriaMaRia]

Dr. West; you are one of a handful of humans that when you speak your prophetic fire, it helps me awake from the dream state THEY want us in. LOVE to you... all

[@smallseal17]

Two things. One, while everyone else's sartorial standards are slowly slipping due to Covid, Michael is today holding himself to the line, out of sheer respect for Dr West. Salute. Two, I want to recommend a video the People's Forum NYC put up this month last year, titled "Empire and Economics", which is about the Jewish tradition of debt cancellation (the year of Jubilee) and how it should be a practice in Christianity, but... isn't, for some reason.

[@creshiell]

Which is sweet but I love the tracksuits too

[@ibrahematta4218]

Mike, I'm a little bit biased, this is the greatest episode you have ever done. Doc West what a giant!

[@totonow6955]

This video is going on my Love Train playlist. I appreciate this and can listen everyday as I strive to die daily. Amen.

[@hansmuller4338]

... and the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism. The profane existence of error is compromised as soon as its heavenly oratio pro aris et focis [“speech for the altars and hearths,” i.e., for God and country] has been refuted. Man, who has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman, will no longer feel disposed to find the mere appearance of himself, the non-man [Unmensch], where he seeks and must seek his true reality. The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man - state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo. "

[@totonow6955]

@@hansmuller4338 real religion is caring for the widow, the orphan, the least of these - the Palestinian Jew Jesus If this is the religion you want to over throw, no thank you.

[@supersonicultra2]

Incredible interview 👏

[@adamjoseph6132]

I am an atheist Marxist-Leninist and this segment makes me cry to this day. Probably my favorite interview Michael (pbuh) ever did. Rest In Power, brother.

[@iculus3333]

😢✊🏾❤

[@fruit4me782]

Michael. Your spirituality is why I listen to you, that plus Matt and David Griscom are two more of the good guys . Love and Gratitude !

[@dallasswoveland4466]

Intimacy, vulnerability, prerequisites of love and justice. That's big y'all. We need to remember this in our dealings with our opposition. Be committed to reconciliation with your republican and neo-liberal brothers and sisters. That's the prerequisite of a union.

[@FromDataMakeInfo]

Christianity is NOT as basic as mainstream culture makes it seem: a person is neither good or bad, nor a saint or a sinner. Jesus’ teachings are very deep, and require humble self-exploration. I LOVE that Dr West can explain some of these things so eloquently.

[@JimJamJuicy]

We’re all sinners

[@FromDataMakeInfo]

@JimJamJuicy Speak for yourself. I am not part of you're "all".

[@JimJamJuicy]

@@FromDataMakeInfo 1 John chapter 1 verse 8

[@TheFamousMockingbird]

As a left wing christian, I always point to the american hero cornel west

[@Sinleqeunnini]

Brother West is also my hero.

[@richardbaer711]

As a right wing Christian, I do too

[@gregDino32]

​​@@richardbaer711 Wow didn't expect that man , then again I shouldn't judge a book by its cover , not all right wingers are these hateful ,racist warmongerers people think of and the left or moderates aren't always as loving ,anti racist or even peaceful people you might think.There is corruption in many facets of society including democrats or the left , I'm saying this as a Bernie Sanders supporting person and recently started believing in God again .I also consider myself party wise as non partisan independent.

[@anilmethipara]

Michael asking about do we have to think about our mortality, do we have to think about how death is coming...

[@msblanche9035]

Brother West is a National Treasure.

[@GrayzoneGab]

Paul Tillich had an important message about religion. He criticized the way that spirituality, and man's connection with a higher power is often corrupted by the dogma of religious institutions. Maybe this dogma that we have seen become exclusionary and hateful rhetoric in our nation, is now the only way many of us understand religion. But maybe we can take a page out of Michael's book, the idea that religion doesn't have to be essentialized. It doesn't have to be religion a la the moral majority or wahabism

[@fall2spring]

Also a very basic comment with no great visionary import- religion functions like everything else- it can be corrupted by capitalist or otter unjust power dynamics. Men controlling people for their own gain. I mean, just the untold riches gained by even “fake” religions like Scientology, who will surely track me now lol. The untold riches plundered & housed by the Vatican. You get what I’m sayin

[@heathcliffearnshaw1403]

1 Corinthians 1 - 13 , the “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but hath not love” one. . .’s no good just bein’ an armchair socialist etc

[@aw4955]

Beautiful

[@cthulhuwu_]

Rest in power, Michael

[@fall2spring]

Always, brother. Keep him in our hearts

[@fall2spring]

This is why mIke stood out to me amongst the pantheon of good leftists that edumacated me; had such power in my eyes. Materialist analysis and spirituality combined with no oil and water vibes. And that adidas, that gold chain. And comrade west here. Wonderful. RIP MICHAEL BROOKS

[@kathryntate6809]

Michael Brooks, very simply, through love and affection and stewardess of all animals, the angels, literally, we can find God instantaneously and the salvation of all the moments. One does not need intellectualize it unless one wants to. CONNECT WITTH ANIMALS and let it flow through you.

[@lindsayhmcnab]

2:48 omfg the spooky howling wind that blows and then what they talk about.... holy shit 😱

[@OmerQShow]

In the beginning when they’re talking about mortality and death. It gets me man 😪

[@regime6889]

“Palestinian Jew” in the first century is the equivalent of saying Indigenous American in 2024.

[@michaelangelo9119]

No mention of Jesus? Really? Deliverance from sin and being reconciled to God is revolutionary. Liberation theology gets that wrong. Jesus death in Isaiah 53 brings in an eternal covenant of peace in Isaiah 54. It changes enemies of God to His children. Making it merely politics is a false gospel. In the law the king writes a copy of the law. This points to the heavenly king Jesus who writes his law on new hearts, new creations of his believers by the power of his resurrection. Yes mercy and justice is a fruit of salvation but not salvation itself.

[@pop867]

STOP ALL DONATIONS , DEMAND BERNIE AS VP THEN THEY CAN HAVE MY MONEY.

[@johntao6822]

Dream on

[@TheDarkMatter-iu4ge]

Dr. Cornel West said he value your opinion. You’ve truly made it my dude. It’s all downhill from here.

[@user-hy1od6by1w]

What about cornel west says hes Christian? I ask that to the so called Christians in the comment section cheering him on. Do tell

[@prasinosfthinipwro9809]

Cornell , wow .

[@davethesanic]

Someone protect Cornel West. Don't allow him to suffer any harm, he's shown to be a good fella.

[@mattjbg7025]

God knows what Michael did. He is now in a better place, but both of them don't want us to forget what we have to still do in this life to speak up for the oppressed and exploited

[@mnky26]

love Dr West and your show, lost you both at "Scientific Dogma" lol

[@GregoryWonderwheel]

@LGo0926 Exactly! People have an easy time seeing the premises of another frame of reference but not in their own. I say that scientism is the denial or refusal to question the projective premises of scientific materialism. Carl G. Jung was the psychological scientist who did the most work in this field of analyzing the psychological foundations of the archetype of objectivity. Jung was the Einstein of psychology who has been deliberately obscured and exiled by scientific materialism that has turned psychology into the dogma of neurophysiology.

[@megavolt67]

Really great conversation. About the part at 4:22 though, critics of religion don't argue that getting rid of religion will get rid of all harmful ideological thinking or that non-religious ideologies aren't capable of creating a form of domination similar to that of religious ones (in fact, this was Hitchens exact argument about Stalinism; that it used familiar religious tools such as show trials and miracle claims). The point is to get rid of faith-based thinking that really has no rhyme or reason to it in the modern age of science and reason. Because in order to be able to properly question everything and figure out what to do, you have to first get rid of assumptions that shackle you. But that's only the necessary condition. It's not a sufficient one because of course once you get rid of religious thinking, there are still other ways of thinking that can lead to bad outcomes, but at least at that point you can try to address them in an intellectually honest way without anyone trying to invoke supernatural beings and holy laws. Dr. West really sounds more like a man whose personal philosophy has been strongly influenced by the moral teachings of Jesus rather than someone who insists that the bible is inerrant and that you must believe in the literal resurrection of Jesus or else you're going to go to hell no matter how good a person you are. I think it's great though I'm not sure why he calls himself a "christian", albeit a revolutionary one. He's really a moral and political philosopher who takes all philosophy into account whether it comes from holy books or not. And I do love him for it. I don't have any issue with spirituality and spiritual language as long as it's not tied to supernaturalism. On science, I noticed that scientism and the idea of science being misused was brought up in the video. What I would say about that is that to take the current body of scientific knowledge as unalterably true is not a failing of science. The point of science is to constantly be reevaluating hypotheses. Therefore the answer to bad science is not to question the rationale of scientific thinking or to imply that we need some sort of "outside" wisdom (which is typically an excuse to sneak in religious thinking). The answer is just better science. Because scientific thinking just means to always be open to new evidence. It's essentially just critical thinking married to experiment. And that doesn't mean you discount compassion. Logic and emotion are intertwined (not separate, in spite of what popular culture might have one believe) and what we feel should absolutely be a consideration in any "rational" calculus.

[@blartuc2769]

RIP Michael. I miss your podcasts

[@vmakia]

@2:36 Man. This part cuts deep... but the message is so true and I believe that this brother lived and died with the commitment to justice and a better world. RIP Michael

[@darinsingleton3553]

Baby MB. Miss him so much. Your light still shines, brother .

[@Vonnie777]

Conformity and complicity

[@TheIhrausch]

Miss you Michael!

[@gregDino32]

Very interesting 🤔.

[@rickybarry3391]

My man said Cronixx! Subbed!

[@hansmuller4338]

"... and the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism. The profane existence of error is compromised as soon as its heavenly oratio pro aris et focis [“speech for the altars and hearths,” i.e., for God and country] has been refuted. Man, who has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman, will no longer feel disposed to find the mere appearance of himself, the non-man [Unmensch], where he seeks and must seek his true reality. The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man - state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo. "

[@megavolt67]

@Thomas Schmidt You can't dismiss what he's saying purely as an argument from authority because it doesn't matter who said it (looks like Marx). What matters is that the logic of the argument makes sense (makes sense to me) and it demonstrates an acknowledgement and sensitivity to the condition that drives people towards religion. On the other hand, someone quoting something from a holy book and saying that it must be taken as truth and/or obeyed merely because it came from whatever supposed prophet or deity...that would be an unthinking approach.

[@rorikihutchinson6852]

Soul fill, love brother West

[@troyturton8197]

tempers = regulate? that's how i'm taking it.

[@VincentGanshert]

THIS IS ALREADY AN UNDERRATED CONVERSATION

[@heesub64]

wow, Cornell West actually got to talk

[@babygorilla4233]

only 8K views? is the Michael Brooks show primarily a podcast that also uploads to KZbin?

[@DonnyJepp72]

I think the relationship you have with Cornell is beautiful.

[@whatifounddowntherabbithol5254]

RIP, Michael.

[@claborn79]

Read _Dialectic of Enlightenment_.

[@fall2spring]

Ain’t heard of it, of course, I can look that up; but rather hear from you what it means to you, it’s significance.....

[@DerekFullerWhoIsGovt]

🌎🌪🔥🛀

[@glennsimonsen8421]

This episode is deeply disappointing. Here, approximately 3 months before his own untimely death, a Marxist humanist asks Dr. West what it means to declare oneself a radical Christian. Normally, Dr. West is on point and ready to divulge his well earned wisdom. On this occasion he seriously drops the ball, barely mentioning the person of Jesus preferring to talk about blues musicians, making sure to name drop Mohammed, etc, while avoiding a personal account of the transformational power of a relationship with Jesus. Dr. West, he asked you directly, my brother!! Why be so indirect? I think you may have confused him. Michael was doing his best, and maybe even begging you for a real explanation of what makes you such a great and wonderful person.

[@jacobflanagan5141]

Yo i requested this one on Patreon Discord a while ago, dope. I have a different name there

[@jacobflanagan5141]

Unfortunately he doesn't respond to Marx at all, neither of you do. A new spirituality is the pandering in man to that which he knows will affect, but is fraught with all of the trappings of the superstition of our ancestors. No, the flower must be plucked from the chain. People will never be brother and sister as long as there is something beyond this world you are willing to die for. This world is the one we train ourselves to die for; nothingness and void follows, but life has given more than enough to lose yourself in (for meaning) while here. Who is a nihilist with the wonder of aesthetics and philosophy the world holds to grapple with, to test yourself against? Spirituality, will be humanism, and meditation need not mystical. I have the deepest respect for Brother Cornell, and have read him extensively. I would not be a good historical materialist if I did not make room in the movement for those coming from a different and sometimes a less privileged moment, but the goal is liberation for all. I don't want a beautiful chain, I don't need to be able to suffer through like gospel gives peoples the strength to, as Brother Cornell indicates. I want outrage and riot: I want proletariat understanding of the simple fact, all the world is theirs and that no burden is too great for their brethren; how could a burden for siblings be too heavy when you have borne them for masters for lifetimes into prehistory?

[@penguininasuit4451]

@@jacobflanagan5141 Why not have a new spirituality in the form of humanism? It seems a lot of people want to have some greater purpose in life or be apart of some community. Extend humanism to people and make them believe in the common human experience we all share. Have society value life and work to reduce harm as much as possible. Inform people that the same chemicals that make up them are the same that are found through out the cosmos. Spirituality guided by science and knowledge would not seem like something harmful for societies to be built upon.

[@jacobflanagan5141]

@@penguininasuit4451 I don't think you disagreed with me. Can you delineate your position a little more for me?

[@FleetaFleegalBuckFut]

@@jacobflanagan5141 #ShutDownDC

[@jisiri]

Oh the good that religion has wrought. WW1 was blessed by each country's religious leaders- 60 to 100 million dead. WW2 about the same, blessed also and nearly as many dead. With women and children the primary victims. I'd be writing til next week if I cover all the wars, religious wars and fighting thru the ages. And don't give me that garbage about religion be an excuse. The young boys and men truly thought their god was on their side and would be with them. Why else go? But maybe they were right. He/she/it may have been in the alps, the deserts, the jungles, back in their ravaged homes? Did the thing get lost? On well...I'm sure the thing will bless the next one. Stay tuned!

[@magefixler885]

Revolutionary Christian or any other Christian means belief in a magic ghost flying up in the sky. End of Story.